Duncan Bannatyne

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the entrepreneur Duncan Bannatyne.

Presenter0:38

He made his name appearing on the T V show Dragon's Den, a no nonsense investor with a sharp tongue and an eye for the bottom line. He made his fortune in nursing homes, health clubs, and hotels quite something, given that aged thirty he was a deck chair attendant, who'd once served time in military detention for threatening to throw his commanding officer overboard.

Presenter0:59

He says when you've got a criminal record, no qualifications, no references, the best option is starting your own business, because no one can stop you.

Presenter1:08

Um you're not quite a rags to riches story, Duncan Valentine, but but almost. I'm wondering do you think you enjoy your money more because you know what it's like not to have any?

Duncan Bannatyne1:18

I don't know if I enjoy the money, but I certainly enjoy my life. I've such a great life. I have a lovely family. And I love the business. And I think.

Duncan Bannatyne1:25

Loving your business that you built up is more important than loving the money that that creates. There's many people in business who always say we won't retire entrepreneurs because we love it so much. It's what drives us.

Presenter1:36

Let me quote back to you some of the things you said on Dragon's Den. I don't like the product. I actually don't like you. I'm not going to invest. You don't mince your words, do you, on that programme?

Duncan Bannatyne1:45

Well, I think sometimes you have to tell people as it is, you know, otherwise you get away with um the wrong impression. So I'm I'm being helpful.

Presenter1:52

Are you sort of confecting this hard-boiled sweetie then for the purposes of television, or you just have to be a bit of a tough nut to make it in business?

Duncan Bannatyne2:01

No, I think I'm just tough in business when I'm talking to people about business. If we'd done a programme about family life at home, I'd have come across very different.

Presenter2:08

So really you're very nurturing. You're not. Yes, not sure I quite believe you.

Duncan Bannatyne2:09

Absolutely.

Presenter2:14

You said that where you come from, which is uh West of Scotland working-class background, the word entrepreneur is a polite word for capitalist bastard.

Duncan Bannatyne2:24

Yes, that's true. I mean, I I never heard the word until I think it was in my twenties. I never knew where it meant. That's entrepreneur. Yeah, entrepreneur. I had other words, yeah.

Presenter2:28

That's all.

Speaker 22:30

But

Duncan Bannatyne2:32

But yeah, I mean we just didn't believe in capitalism. We believed that we were working class and everybody had to work and that was it.

Duncan Bannatyne2:38

You know, it wasn't until like my Royal Navy and I was penniless, uh, this idea of going into business that I thought, you know.

Duncan Bannatyne2:43

This is something that no one can stop by doing. It was important to you, was it, to be master of your own destiny, to be in control.

Duncan Bannatyne2:49

You know, it sort of started with the fact that I was on the beach and I met this girl and I fell in love and we wanted to have children. And we had no money and to have children you have to have money. So it was then I decided I wanted to do something with my life.

Presenter3:00

Did you have a grand plan in the beginning, or

Duncan Bannatyne3:03

No. My plan was was was to buy a house.

Duncan Bannatyne3:06

Make enough money to start having children. It was as simple as that. And then the children came along and by that time I realized how much I enjoyed business and I stayed in business because I I really love it. Do you know how much you're worth?

Duncan Bannatyne3:18

I haven't the foggiest idea. The Sunday Times richness always um gives out figures, but I've I've never tried to count it.

Presenter3:23

What do they say?

Duncan Bannatyne3:24

They said last year, I think they said three hundred and twenty million.

Presenter3:27

Might that be broadly about right?

Duncan Bannatyne3:30

Possibly, I'm not sure.

Presenter3:33

More to come on that. Let's start with some music then. You've got eight discs. We're going to hear the first one now. What is it?

Duncan Bannatyne3:39

It's uh, you know, being a Scot, living abroad, if you like, in England and and being surrounded by English people and my children actually consider themselves English. Um we always like to hear a Scottish voice. And the top of my iPod when I switch on when I get to the flat in London is um Roger Stewart with Maggie May.

Speaker 33:55

Wake up Maggie, I think I got something to say to you.

Speaker 34:02

It's late September and I really should be back at school.

Speaker 34:09

No I keep you amused

Speaker 34:12

But I feel I'm being you

Speaker 34:16

Or Maggie, I couldn't have tried.

Speaker 34:20

Anymore.

Presenter4:24

That was Rod Stewart and Maggie May. He be is he the same generation as you, Rod Stewart?

Duncan Bannatyne4:29

Yes, I think he's about I think maybe two years older than me.

Presenter4:31

Right, not that you're counting.

Duncan Bannatyne4:32

No, I'm counting, no.

Presenter4:33

How do you how are you dealing with aging, Duncan Dennatoin?

Duncan Bannatyne4:37

Do you know what I I don't mind it and and I'm quite happy, but I just do hate this granddad title that you get when your daughter has a child. She's got a lovely little baby called Ava and and and she's great. I've spent some time with her, but I just hate being called grandad.

Presenter4:50

Yes. Um and so it was nineteen forty-nine you were born in in Clydebank, west of Scotland, very uh working class. Your your mum and dad, what were they like?

Duncan Bannatyne4:58

Uh well my dad uh worked as a labourer. He was a founder worker and seeing a sewing machine factory for a while and uh he'd spent quite a bit of time in a prisoner war camp, in a Japanese prisoner war camp, but he'd determined when he came out of the prisoner war camp that he was going to build a life and and have children.

Duncan Bannatyne5:14

And my mother spent a lot of time looking after us because we're seven children. You were the eldest.

Duncan Bannatyne5:18

No, I became the eldest when my sister died.

Presenter5:21

Uh

Duncan Bannatyne5:21

Um my sister died uh in her early twenties. Right. So she'd immigrated actually to Canada.

Presenter5:26

This was Helen.

Duncan Bannatyne5:26

Helen, yeah. And she she died within about thirty six hours of arriving in Canada. She had a brain tumor and died.

Duncan Bannatyne5:32

That made a huge impression on you, not surprisingly.

Presenter5:32

Mm-hmm.

Duncan Bannatyne5:35

It did, yeah, I went off the rails a little bit and uh drank a little bit too much.

Duncan Bannatyne5:39

It it did, it was quite a big thing.

Presenter5:41

All right. And and she was one of your siblings who, I suppose, if if she had bothered to to get our possessions and our savings and whatever else together and make it all the way to Canada, she had aspirations. She was somebody who was following some sort of a dream.

Duncan Bannatyne5:53

Oh yeah, and Helen was very, very determined. I mean, Helen and her husband, you could buy um what you call an apartment and you could get a three-year mortgage. So she had bought over three years and then sold it, and that was the money she was using to go to Toronto and she was going to have a life out of that. And she would have had a great life. And my father was very, very proud of being working class and felt we should always stay working class. So it was a sort of revolt, if you like, against what my father wanted. Explain a bit.

Presenter6:14

Tell a bit more to me about the pride in being working class, because these days, of course, we're all aspirational now. We all we all are are trying to migrate somehow to to the middle classes. It different days then. What what was it about your father's working class background that that meant he was proud of it?

Duncan Bannatyne6:29

Yeah, I thi I think it was something to do with after the war and everybody was slutted into class and he was working class.

Duncan Bannatyne6:36

And if you weren't proud of it, I meant it.

Duncan Bannatyne6:38

You were ashamed of it. And so you ought to be proud of it and and he was very, very proud of it.

Presenter6:42

You've said of your father from where he started he made a great life. It was fantastic. It'd be easy for people to judge it from the outside and think quite the opposite. You know, here was a man with seven children.

Presenter6:52

uh you know, working in a job that was presumably relatively low low paid and you all were living in, I'm guessing, it wasn't quite a room and kitchen, but a a small, small house.

Presenter7:01

No, by the time

Duncan Bannatyne7:02

I'll have Tom in wet a three bedroom.

Duncan Bannatyne7:05

house and my father is still working fifty or sixty hours a week to keep the house together. We didn't have a car.

Duncan Bannatyne7:13

So it was relatively poor, but you have the riches of your family and and everybody around you. But after spending five years as a prisoner of war, he was determined that he was going to.

Duncan Bannatyne7:21

Find a woman, fall in love, get married, have children, create a family. And that's what he did. That was his reply, was it? To the circumstances he'd been in.

Presenter7:29

Yeah, I think it was.

Duncan Bannatyne7:30

Cha

Presenter7:30

Let's hear some music, then tell me what we're going to hear too. A change of pace. This this is for uh Joanna, your wife, this one.

Duncan Bannatyne7:36

Yeah, very different. Um on Joanne's fortieth birthday um she wanted me to um

Duncan Bannatyne7:42

hire someone really special and and we hired Human League. We have a big warehouse beside my office.

Presenter7:47

Not just the local DJ then.

Duncan Bannatyne7:48

No, okay, he wasn't available. And um

Duncan Bannatyne7:52

We hired Human League who came along and they spent the evening. It was absolutely a fantastic night. And her favourite, Don't You Want Me.

Speaker 28:01

Don't you want me?

Speaker 28:03

No, I can't believe it when I hear that you won't see me don't

Speaker 28:09

Don't you want me?

Speaker 28:11

You know I don't believe you when you say that you don't need me It's what you legs fine

Speaker 28:18

You change your mind

Speaker 28:20

Better change it back, or we will both be sorry. Don't you want me, baby?

Speaker 38:28

Don't you wanna

Presenter8:30

That was the Human League and Don't You Want Me and Memories of You Dancing with Your Wife, where the Human League played at her fortieth birthday party there second then a time. We you were talking there about your father and his experiences of being a Japanese prisoner of war. What sort of state was he in when he was eventually set free?

Speaker 38:36

I'm still in.

Duncan Bannatyne8:42

Hmm.

Duncan Bannatyne8:46

Yeah, after the war he was amongst the people that looked like the living dead, described as the living dead were about five stone and walking about like like zombies. Did he talk to you about his time during the war?

Presenter8:50

Yes.

Duncan Bannatyne8:57

He didn't until um Helen died and then he did then. Uh we both got drunk together and he told me quite a few things that that I'd never realized before.

Duncan Bannatyne9:07

He told me about a time that they were all excited because they'd caught a rat and they managed to eat this rat. That's how hungry they were.

Duncan Bannatyne9:14

You know, and things like that. Now, during the war, his his mother killed herself, his mother had committed suicide, and his father.

Duncan Bannatyne9:20

Um didn't want to know him, or couldn't look after him.

Speaker 39:23

Right.

Duncan Bannatyne9:24

And uh so he ended up with his antimesie.

Duncan Bannatyne9:27

who was married to Duncan Walker, which is where I get my name from, Duncan Walker Bannertine.

Speaker 39:31

Right.

Duncan Bannatyne9:32

and they looked after him, and they introduced him actually to my mother.

Duncan Bannatyne9:35

And so what did he tell you?

Presenter9:36

You bet his mother.

Duncan Bannatyne9:37

Cool.

Presenter9:37

What

Duncan Bannatyne9:38

Oh, he never actually spoke about his mother. Uh, I just know that she'd committed suicide and they came out and and that was it.

Presenter9:45

So for all sorts of reasons, a very um a very tough background for your father. How did that translate into the way that he brought you up? What what were his values? What were his standards?

Duncan Bannatyne9:55

You know, the thing is that being a typical child, I just knew my father as this person who disciplined me.

Duncan Bannatyne10:01

And we did spend a bit of time together. He had a chicken run, and we'd get chickens and pluck the chickens together.

Duncan Bannatyne10:07

and would uh plant vegetables together.

Presenter10:10

Your father did uh live to see your success as an entrepreneur. What did he what did he make of it then, given that he was very left-leaning and very working class?

Duncan Bannatyne10:19

Yeah, my father was fantastic. And actually fact, the memory of of of my father's pride in what I'd achieved was what drove me on sometimes when when life wasn't great and business was a bit difficult. And he was very, very proud, and he died very, very proud, which makes me very, very happy.

Presenter10:34

What about your mum? We haven't really mentioned her at all.

Duncan Bannatyne10:37

My mum just worked to look after us and it was very, very difficult. She's lovely, she's still alive now, my my my father died, but uh she's great, she's um eighty four years old now. Uh I was with her mother just a couple of weeks ago.

Presenter10:49

And what are your memories of her as a little boy? I'm I'm imagining probably it's her on wash day with a mangle and it's it's her uh scrubbing the pots and keeping the the front stoop clean and all that sort of stuff.

Duncan Bannatyne10:59

That's right, of course they had a mango. They didn't know these automatic washing machines they have now, and I remember turning the mango for her. Um but I I remember when I was, you know, eleven years old and I'd started at the high school and uh I wasn't very well accepted by the people in high school because they were a bit posh.

Presenter11:15

You went to grammar you were the only kid in your family who went to grammar school.

Duncan Bannatyne11:19

That's right.

Presenter11:19

Quite an achievement.

Duncan Bannatyne11:20

Yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne11:21

And you know all these kids had bikes and I wanted to have a bike, so I asked my mother.

Duncan Bannatyne11:25

If I could write she said no and I said well why not? she said because we're poor.

Duncan Bannatyne11:29

And I said, Well, what can I do? And she says, Go and get a paper around. So, my first actual entrepreneurial.

Duncan Bannatyne11:36

aspect of life was when I built one paper round up at the age of eleven and by my mother's backing. Did you get the bike? I got the bike, yeah, after about six months I saved up and bought myself a bike.

Presenter11:45

Let's have some more music for now. Tell me about disc number three.

Duncan Bannatyne11:48

I spent a lot of time away from home in the Royal Navy and uh now I'm living in England and I quite often go home. Just to remind you of of going home, uh Tom Jones at Green Cream Grass I film and what a great record.

Speaker 312:00

That old oak tree that I used to play on

Speaker 312:09

Down the lane I walk with my sweet Mary

Speaker 312:16

Hair of gold and lips like cherries It's good to touch the green, green grass of home

Presenter12:28

That was Tom Jones and the green, green grass of home, the the voice there of the prisoner who's uh who's imagining what life is like in his bucolic homeland.

Presenter12:36

Maybe you understand some of that, Duncan Bannertyme. You were I mean, you weren't quite a prisoner, did it? Tell me what happened.

Duncan Bannatyne12:42

I was nineteen years old and I was in the Royal Navy. I used to box for the Royal Navy and I was training. I was very fit, and we were coming back from off shore. And um, as we were going up the side of the ship upstairs, my commanding officer was coming down, and and just like waiting for people to come out of lift before you get in, he should have waited to wake him up.

Duncan Bannatyne12:58

And so he started shouting odds as if it was our fault, and I think he'd had a couple of drinks and he was shown off in front of his girlfriend.

Duncan Bannatyne13:04

and I had words with them, and we had an altercation, and I ended up trying to throw him off the side of an aircraft carrier.

Presenter13:10

And altercation's a nice polite word, isn't it?

Duncan Bannatyne13:11

Yeah. It took me years to develop that word and use that word.

Presenter13:16

But you'd signed up at a young age for twelve years in the Navy. W were you looking?

Duncan Bannatyne13:18

Scandinavian.

Duncan Bannatyne13:21

Uh

Presenter13:21

For them to turf you out, had you had enough?

Presenter13:23

Uh

Duncan Bannatyne13:23

Well, I was fifteen years and three months old when I joined our Navy. So you were just a boy. I was just a boy, yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne13:28

And I sat up for twelve years and it just wasn't working for me, you know.

Presenter13:31

Why why did you sign up? I mean, as you s as we found out, you were at grammar school, so you were quite a bright guy.

Duncan Bannatyne13:37

Well, after starting grammar school and and building up my paper round, I flopped miserably at exams. Why? And I hated it. I think because I spent all day delivering papers.

Presenter13:42

Why?

Duncan Bannatyne13:46

And no one I couldn't do my homework and no one really helped me with the homework and things like that. It just didn't work out. I just couldn't. I was bought with the class. Excepting and everything except maths.

Presenter13:53

Right.

Duncan Bannatyne13:56

And what appealed to you about the Navy then particularly? It was getting away from the situation we were in.

Duncan Bannatyne14:02

Yeah, home life. And the poverty, if you like.

Presenter14:02

This is home life, you know.

Duncan Bannatyne14:05

And see the world.

Presenter14:06

Had you begun to feel the poverty by that stage? Did you know that you were living in relatively difficult circumstances?

Duncan Bannatyne14:12

Yeah, because people around us had cars to start with. People talked about holidays. And I remember uh when we got our first television, I think we were the last I remember going to a friend's house actually and standing outside his house watching the television. And we eventually got a television.

Duncan Bannatyne14:26

So we always seem to be last for things like that.

Presenter14:28

You said you wanted to to see the world. Did you have a girl in every port?

Duncan Bannatyne14:32

No, I didn't, no.

Presenter14:34

Greeley.

Duncan Bannatyne14:34

No. Make me blush now.

Presenter14:37

And you're blushing because

Presenter14:40

Because I didn't.

Presenter14:44

But were you a bit of a naive teenager?

Duncan Bannatyne14:46

Yeah, I think I was, yeah, yeah. I mean, we used to go out and used to get in so much trouble. But we circumnavigated the world before I was nineteen years old in an an aircraft carrier. And of course then we'd just spend over time training for the boxing.

Presenter14:57

Did you thrive under those circumstances? I mean, yes, it was obviously a tough environment, but physically demanding rules and regulations. I mean, entrepreneurs don't don't really like rules and regulations.

Duncan Bannatyne15:07

I didn't take kindly to commanding officers and so.

Duncan Bannatyne15:11

Quite often I would be told off or got in trouble. I think I had about eighteen charges before I was actually court-martialled.

Presenter15:17

Um imagine you had to be a tough knot, just just to keep your head above water.

Duncan Bannatyne15:21

Yeah, I think you had to be fit and uh you had to be able to look after yourself. I was very fit, I was quite muscular and so nobody took me on if you like.

Presenter15:28

Tell me about disc number four.

Duncan Bannatyne15:31

I spent seven months um locked up and um you could only write a letter once a week. And I wrote to my then girlfriend and asked her to meet me when I came out. I wasn't sure she would meet me.

Duncan Bannatyne15:43

And we arranged to meet under this big um clock

Duncan Bannatyne15:47

at Paddington railway station.

Duncan Bannatyne15:50

and I remember arriving at Paddington not knowing if she was going to be there.

Duncan Bannatyne15:53

And first of all I'm looking for the clock because I wasn't sure which clock it was.

Duncan Bannatyne15:57

And first of all I don't see her.

Duncan Bannatyne15:59

And then she appears and and she's there and it was great and

Duncan Bannatyne16:03

A few years later after this, um this record came out.

Duncan Bannatyne16:07

And this record just brings it back every time.

Speaker 316:10

What tie a rhythm round the old tree?

Speaker 316:15

It's the

Speaker 316:17

Long years to yesterday, wanting me to wonder if I don't see a ribbon around the old oak tree, I'll stay on the bus, forget about us, put the blame on me if I don't see a yellow ribbon round the old tree.

Presenter16:39

Tony Orlando and Dawn and Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round the Old Oak Tree and and the the tale that you told going into that Duncan Banner Tyne. Of course it's a chirpy little pop song, but it was quite an emotional little story, that, of you walking on to the

Presenter16:52

Platform at Paddington and waiting to see if your girl was there waiting. Are you quite an emotional person?

Duncan Bannatyne16:58

Yes, I am. Very emotional. And I try to hide it, but um it's there. Yeah.

Presenter17:04

And coming from uh the background that you came from, not necessarily easy to be an emotional person. I mean, it's not, you know, by virtue of the circumstances and the character of the people, it's not somewhere where people were spilling their emotional guts routinely.

Presenter17:17

That's right.

Duncan Bannatyne17:18

But yeah, there is that there is also the fact that I find it very hard to express my emotions.

Duncan Bannatyne17:22

I spent a bit of time in Romania travelling with UNICEF and and you saw some terrible things and

Duncan Bannatyne17:28

When I came home I'd lie in bed at night time, and something you'd saw that day would go through your head over and over again.

Duncan Bannatyne17:33

And so you'd lie in bed and you couldn't sleep and you'd be crying and the pillow would be soaking wet. And I found out what I could do is I could jump out of bed, I could write the story down.

Duncan Bannatyne17:42

And get back into bed.

Duncan Bannatyne17:44

So that's how I get my emotions out. You know, find it hard to to express them when I'm talking to people or when I'm in people's company.

Duncan Bannatyne17:51

But funny enough I I I go with the children to to the movies and sit and cry watching movies, you know. It's amazing.

Presenter17:58

You were saying that you and your father got uh pretty well oiled after your sister Helen died, and that was a time when you talked to each other. What what age were you then when Helen died?

Duncan Bannatyne18:02

Yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne18:07

Um I was in my my my early twenties, not long after I come out of the Royal Navy.

Presenter18:12

And what were you doing I mean, what was your work at that point? Did you have a job?

Duncan Bannatyne18:15

Yeah, I I actually had my own taxi. Clyde Bank at that time wasn't licensed, so anyone could put a taxi sign on the roof and be a taxi driver. And um I did it until I left Scotland and I was thirty years old when I bought the first ice cream van.

Presenter18:29

Okay, so you had the you had one ice cream van and you sold the business uh how much later for twenty-five grand? Five years. Right, so you you were good at it, you were successful.

Duncan Bannatyne18:37

Yeah, I had turf wars, were there? There were a few turf wars during it, yeah. I mean the worst one was was actually a crowbar. I was attacked by a crowbar by a chap and uh we ended up in the middle of the street and then people started coming along and saying, You know, this is stupid and I said, Yeah, no it's stupid and he said to them, Okay, okay, I've had enough and then he said to them, Will you take my crowbar and put it back in my van for me?

Presenter19:00

We should leap forward a little to the mid-80s. Margaret Thatcher was in Power. She introduced this.

Presenter19:07

A law that was to become very significant for you. It was called the Registered Homes Act, and it allowed private care homes to set up to take care of the increasing elderly population. You saw the potential. The banks, however, didn't really see the potential. Is it true that you actually populated beds with some of your relatives as you took the bank manager around convincing you to extend your loan for your business?

Duncan Bannatyne19:29

Yeah, you know, one of the things I don't want to do is say, you know, this is how you should lead your life. I just tell a story of how my life happened, and that's it.

Presenter19:35

Yes.

Duncan Bannatyne19:36

And what happened is, I started building the first nursing home. It's 30 bedrooms.

Duncan Bannatyne19:42

And the bank had said to me, When it's full, we'll lend you seventy per cent.

Duncan Bannatyne19:47

Other valuation.

Presenter19:47

Right.

Duncan Bannatyne19:48

So we finished it and the Mac says, Okay, I'll have to come in Monday morning and just check it's full.

Duncan Bannatyne19:53

And so that weekend I worried about it because it wasn't actually full.

Duncan Bannatyne19:58

And so saw my mother and got a few of her friends. I actually lied to the back manager on Monday morning. I said, Look, thirty bedrooms, thirty old people.

Presenter20:05

Right. Yeah, it's not technically a lie, really. Uh it takes a lot of nerve to put uh at any point I'm guessing of course it was your own cash you were putting up. I mean at any point did you have to put your house up as collateral, any of that sort of stuff as an entrepreneur?

Duncan Bannatyne20:07

That's right.

Duncan Bannatyne20:19

Oh, everything was up at that time. I we'd actually sold the house to make meet one of the payments. And you were married by this point? Yeah, my wife wasn't very happy when I told her I've sold the house.

Presenter20:28

When you told her?

Duncan Bannatyne20:29

Yeah, I was so determined I'd put everything into.

Presenter20:33

More business in a minute with Duncan Bannatyne for now though some music, Duncan. Um disc number five, what is it?

Duncan Bannatyne20:39

I took my m my wife Joanne.

Duncan Bannatyne20:41

I I wasn't really into music all that much, but she was, and I went to see this musical.

Duncan Bannatyne20:46

Aspects of love. And we had this fantastic song by Michael Ball: Love Changes Everything. And it's always stuck with us. And I really enjoy it. I totally enjoy it. It's a fantastic song.

Speaker 320:58

Love changes everything.

Speaker 321:01

Now I trim.

Speaker 321:04

Your name

Speaker 321:08

Nothing in the world will ever do

Speaker 321:11

They never really saved.

Speaker 321:18

Love

Speaker 321:20

Love changes everything Days are long

Presenter21:25

That was Michael Ball, and Love Changes Everything from Andrew Lloyd Webber's Aspects of Love, chosen by the tough nut Duncan Bannatine. Not such a tough nut after all. Has there ever been anything that has come close to defeating you? Because you you're happily married now to Joanne, you've got two young kids.

Presenter21:41

You were married before and and the marriage collapsed. How difficult was that for you to deal with?

Duncan Bannatyne21:47

That was very difficult. In the run-up to when my wife and I separated, I was just very unhappy. And I would get in the car and drive to work and stop in the lay by and I'd just start crying. And I came very close to considering suicide. I just knew life wasn't right. When you've got a nice house and and and a nice wife and kids and you've got money, h how can things not be right? How can you not be happy? But I just knew it wasn't right.

Presenter22:11

And how did in the end, how did you find your way?

Duncan Bannatyne22:14

It happens when you're sitting in the house and and and my wife says, What's wrong? and I says, It's not working, you know and then from there it became a divorce and and that was it and eventually I met Joanne and um started falling in love again and started to want to have another family again.

Duncan Bannatyne22:28

Uh

Presenter22:28

But you have

Duncan Bannatyne22:29

Yeah. You've got two children.

Presenter22:29

Good.

Presenter22:33

I've read you're quite a strict father. That you put I mean, all of your children obviously are are hugely privileged in terms of the circumstances they grow up in, but that you say to them, Well, there are conditions on the privilege. You know, if you pick up a cigarette, that's it. You know, you won't get your trust funding. Is that stuff true?

Duncan Bannatyne22:35

But you put a

Duncan Bannatyne22:39

Yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne22:48

To a certain extent, what happened is when we floated the company's self-change in 1992.

Duncan Bannatyne22:55

My wife at the time and I decided to set up a trust fund for the children.

Duncan Bannatyne22:59

At that time there'd been a story about a chap who'd bought his son a fast car and had started driving a bridge and killed himself, and so we decided to put some conditions into the trust fund.

Duncan Bannatyne23:07

And the conditions were that they couldn't buy a fast car and if they could done for drinking and driving, they wouldn't get any more money from the Trust Fund, and cigarettes was one of the things, and drugs.

Presenter23:16

But there'll come a point w when you can't smell the cigarette smoke from under the bedroom door or when you know, when they're living on their own and they're in charge of their own lives. What will you do? Will you monitor every movement? Will you?

Duncan Bannatyne23:27

Most people start smoking before they're um eighteen years old and if they haven't started by then or twenty then they won't start, which is great and you know, which I'm quite confident though none of them will ever ever smoke cigarettes. Yeah, there's a point where they have to live their own life. And my oldest one is the one who's now get married in June and uh she's a baby and she's very, very responsible. So it's worked for her. She's not

Presenter23:46

So

Presenter23:48

Not smoking.

Duncan Bannatyne23:48

Definitely not smoking cigarettes, and I see you hate cigarettes.

Presenter23:51

Let's have some music. Uh number six now we're at.

Duncan Bannatyne23:55

Yeah, you know, this title is so apt, I I think that people spend their life thinking, you know, should I have done something different, would I have done something different, could have done something different, and Beverly Knight puts it in words. In actual fact, Beverly Knight actually came and sang this in my sixtieth birthday, which was absolutely fantastic.

Speaker 324:09

And how I wish I wish I wish I could a little bit more

Speaker 324:16

Now shoulda woulda coulda means I'm better times Shoulda woulda coulda take you Change your mind And I wonder how I'm gonna do

Speaker 324:29

Shoulda woulda coulda are the last words of a fool

Presenter24:35

Beverley Knight and Shuda Wuda Cudda. Duncan Bennatine, by two thousand four, then, you had certainly made your fortune. Why did you want why on earth did you want to be famous, too?

Duncan Bannatyne24:47

Oh, I I wanted a bit of profile because a couple of things happened. Tony Blair came into power.

Duncan Bannatyne24:53

And um he had a party in London and he invited people like the Gallagher Brothers.

Presenter24:58

Yeah, this is cool Britannia.

Duncan Bannatyne24:59

Yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne25:01

And

Duncan Bannatyne25:01

I thought, you know, I've done this thing, I've created 3,000 jobs, and he doesn't even know who I am. But I wanted to be known then, I wanted to be able to talk to politicians.

Presenter25:05

Do you know?

Presenter25:10

So you wanted profile because you thought it would give you power.

Duncan Bannatyne25:12

Yeah. I still hope that I'm able, through talking to politicians, to give some bit of influence and into how we should run the country. But also the profile has also helped the business. And business is is is good.

Presenter25:23

Explain to me, then, why on earth a very successful man like you would want to be an actor, too.

Duncan Bannatyne25:30

I was getting bored with business and I was getting a bit bored with life again. And so I decided I needed a new challenge and I thought I'm going to take up acting.

Presenter25:36

What hate were you?

Duncan Bannatyne25:36

This should be about six years ago.

Presenter25:38

55 thing.

Presenter25:41

Was it your midlife crisis? I'm just it's a stab in the dark. I've had about three midlife crises.

Duncan Bannatyne25:46

Yeah.

Speaker 325:46

Yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne25:47

Yeah, I do think if I'm

Presenter25:47

Take me to them. Go on this side, please. Take me to where was the f

Duncan Bannatyne25:47

Take you through them gone.

Duncan Bannatyne25:49

I think the first one was obviously when I left my first wife. Ah, right. And then Joanne and I actually separated for a couple of years, and I think that was in our mid left, and I think the acting was one.

Presenter25:52

Ah right.

Duncan Bannatyne25:58

So I think there's there's more to come.

Presenter26:00

So was the acting about having a sort of emotional release, about being able to be the person that you don't feel that you can be, as Duncan Bannattyne?

Duncan Bannatyne26:08

Yeah, and I suppose in some way I love watching films that really change the world and wanting to be part of one.

Presenter26:13

Yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne26:13

Even in any small way.

Presenter26:16

But you must have known it was more complicated than that. I mean, it's you know, it's as

Presenter26:19

I mean, business is dirty, but acting's really dirty. I mean, you know, the competition is enormous, the the opportunity for rejection. Why would somebody at your stage in life put themselves through that?

Duncan Bannatyne26:27

Yeah, I didn't realise how dirty it was until I started it so far. You would go to an audition and and there'd be fifty people at the audition, so you have one chance in fifty of of getting the job if you like.

Duncan Bannatyne26:37

So you could see that people are actually just making nothing and just going around to try to really get on the ladder of acting.

Presenter26:42

So your midlife crisis at that point, the third one, you said to Joanne, Look, I want to be an actor. You you you embarked on an acting course. Did you cut all sort of ties with with family and with friends? I mean you moved to London at that point.

Duncan Bannatyne26:47

Hmm.

Duncan Bannatyne26:55

Well no, Joan Joanne actually booked me into the New York School of Acting. What happened is I I got a great acting job. I was acting in in a great soap in the north east of England, which flopped because it only only showed one episode and then they didn't recommission it. But it was called Girls' Club.

Duncan Bannatyne27:09

And I was acting on it, and the director said to me, Duncan, he said, I've got a friend who's doing this thing called Dragon's Den. I think you should look at it.

Duncan Bannatyne27:16

And I looked at it, I said, But this is reality television and I don't do reality, I'm an actor. I'm an actor, yes. And the director said, Really, Duncan, I think this would be a better use of your talent. I said, Are you saying I can't act? I think he was he saying that? I think he might have been.

Presenter27:21

I'm an actor.

Presenter27:31

Yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne27:33

No, they weren't on dragons then, and that was it.

Presenter27:34

And that was it.

Presenter27:35

Okay. Let's have some music then. Um tell me what's next.

Duncan Bannatyne27:40

Uh well this is a bit of um

Duncan Bannatyne27:42

I feel like self-indulgence. In actual fact, on my sixtieth birthday, because my wife knew how much I I I think this record is is written for me.

Duncan Bannatyne27:51

I hope you

Presenter27:51

I hope you're saying that with your tongue in your cheek.

Duncan Bannatyne27:53

I am. I always say things with my tongue when she and she actually got a surprise guest to come to my sixtieth birthday party and then Shaz and the Hooks can walking on singing, The One and Only. But he sang and and all my guests sang You are the one and only of course I stood in the stage singing I am the one and only.

Presenter28:07

Of course he did.

Speaker 328:13

Nobody I didn't love a beast. I am the one and lonely. You can't take that away from me. I've been a player in the crowd scene.

Speaker 328:33

I flicker on the big screen My snow embraces

Presenter28:40

That was Chesney Hawkes and the one and only and chosen Duncan Valentine, you say, with your tongue firmly in your cheek on that one. Let's talk a little about the charity work that you do. It it began in Romania. When did it begin?

Duncan Bannatyne28:54

Yeah, being a bit of a sort of balshy entrepreneur, I hate to give money to big charities. I like to go and see what's happening.

Presenter29:01

'Cause you're you're afraid it'll get swallowed up in the in the sort of spending on offices and electricity offices and all that stuff.

Duncan Bannatyne29:03

Yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne29:06

Yeah, that's it. Or I want to make sure it doesn't. And so we found um we have one more hospital where there was um twenty seven children who had all been abandoned by the parents and they all had HIV.

Presenter29:09

Yeah.

Duncan Bannatyne29:17

And they're a horrible place, the worst place in the world I've ever been to.

Duncan Bannatyne29:21

and we spent six months building a new orphanage.

Duncan Bannatyne29:24

But it's an amazing situation because one of the doctors at the hospital said, You're wasting your time building an office because these children will be dead by the time you finish. Last year I had the privilege of walking down the aisle to give one of these women away because she's now seventeen years old and she's got married. I've just built one actually, which is a day centre for Spanitan's house in Britain, it's in Glasgow, in Easter House, which is pretty bad, um gang related, so they're all quite different.

Duncan Bannatyne29:49

And quite amazing.

Presenter29:50

Um parts of it's interesting that you bring up Easter House. Um parts of Easter House you know are the most challenged in Europe in terms of social deprivation. And I wonder what you think when you look at especially the young men there and you think yes, you you did have a family that that loved you and you you had the support of two good parents and and brothers and sisters, but you didn't have much more than that.

Duncan Bannatyne29:56

Social

Duncan Bannatyne30:07

But you

Presenter30:09

When you look at these youngsters, do you not sometimes want to give them a bit of a shake and say, Come on, you know, it's down to you. You've got your health, you've got a head on your shoulders, just get on with it.

Duncan Bannatyne30:19

Yeah, well the children we look after actually are very young, they're still at school. Right. And unfortunately they're coming back.

Duncan Bannatyne30:24

quite often to single-parent houses where the parent is either out

Duncan Bannatyne30:29

Maybe he's working, I may be in the pub.

Duncan Bannatyne30:31

And so there's no one for them to do the homework with or to talk to or anything. So they come to our day centre now and they spend their time there.

Duncan Bannatyne30:37

And many people say they joined the gangs because if they didn't join the gangs they wouldn't be safe. I said we're dealing with these people and talking to them all the time now.

Presenter30:44

So, you think that by working as part of these, as a small person, but part of a bigger movement, you can make a change? Yeah, absolutely. Is it important to you?

Presenter30:53

To feel that you've made your mark.

Presenter30:55

Do you think that you know it's a long time off, but when you eventually shuffle off this mortal coil, you know, you you name you give your hotels your name, you know, Bannatine's on the front, even the orphanages have your name on the front. Do you feel that you want people to know you are here?

Duncan Bannatyne31:08

I just love my name.

Presenter31:11

Have you got a rampaging ego?

Duncan Bannatyne31:13

But no, I I just I just love it. I think it's a great name. Oh, come on.

Duncan Bannatyne31:17

But yeah, I I suppose I have a bit of an ampigian ego if you like, and I do like putting my name on buildings, a bit like Donald Trump.

Presenter31:23

You've got better hair, Duncan, I have to tell you. Thank you. So, how does Joanne deal with that then? I mean, living with somebody with a

Duncan Bannatyne31:23

You got better.

Duncan Bannatyne31:25

Thank you.

Presenter31:30

A rampaging ego, even if he's quite adept at keeping it in check, it's not easy, is it?

Duncan Bannatyne31:35

She's very good at keeping me in check. She is. Women have a way of doing that, don't they? You probably do it yourself. I couldn't possibly comment.

Duncan Bannatyne31:43

Yeah, so she knows how to handle it.

Presenter31:46

And so when you're cast away, Duncan, on the island, how will you handle it? There there will of course be no Blackberry, and there'll be no people to help, no businesses to run, no television shows to to record.

Duncan Bannatyne31:58

I would cook terribly.

Duncan Bannatyne32:00

I would find it very, very difficult. I think I'm practical enough to be able to catch some fish and and feed myself.

Duncan Bannatyne32:06

But I would think what was the point unless I knew I could go off it somewhere.

Presenter32:10

You said there was a point w when your first marriage was breaking down that you thought, Well, I'm gonna put an end to this. Do you think if you were on your own on the island the the same thing might occur to you?

Duncan Bannatyne32:19

No, I think it was on the island where I would always be looking for a way out. It was only when I realized there's no way off the island I would start contemplating suicide.

Presenter32:27

Let's hear your final piece of music then.

Duncan Bannatyne32:30

When you visit places and and you see the problems that's been created by violence, by gangs and and by dictatorships, and then a few years ago when we decided to go into Iraq,

Duncan Bannatyne32:41

And I just think that before we start in that again,

Duncan Bannatyne32:44

And all politicians should be forced every Sunday to listen to this record.

Duncan Bannatyne32:48

Because we should all be forced to give peace a better chance.

Speaker 332:52

Hold the state.

Speaker 332:57

Give me the chance.

Speaker 333:03

All we are saved.

Presenter33:22

That was the plastic owno band and give peace a chance. So, uh, Duncan, I'm going to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. You're allowed to take another book.

Duncan Bannatyne33:29

Uh

Presenter33:29

So

Duncan Bannatyne33:30

What what will your book be? A book that I've promised myself I would read again so many times about having The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Folly. Fantastic book.

Presenter33:38

That and a luxury you're not allowed to take a blackberry, let me warn you.

Duncan Bannatyne33:42

Well, I would have taken a blackberry if I could, but because I can't, you know, the thing is I I have this problem, uh, wherever I go, I can't sleep at night unless I have a really, really nice soft pillow, and it's got to be quite thick, so I want a nice, big, thick, soft pillow.

Presenter33:54

You can have that, and even a pillowcase to put it in. And if you had to choose just one of the eight discs today, which disc would you choose?

Duncan Bannatyne34:02

Um love changes everything.

Presenter34:04

Duncan Bennettine, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Duncan Bannatyne34:08

Thank you.

Presenter34:55

You've been listening to a download from the BBC.

Presenter34:58

You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website bbc.co.uk/radio4.