Jerry Springer

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The program was originally broadcast in two thousand nine.

Presenter0:28

My castaway this week is the talk show host Jerry Springer. His career has been split between serving the public and outraging them. He started out as a civil rights campaigner, then he worked for Bobby Kennedy, and after standing for office himself, ended up mayor of Cincinnati.

Presenter0:46

But it seems the inner showman was always itching to get out. He was still in office when he stepped into a circus ring to fight a bear live on T V. Since then, of course, the Jerry Springer Show has made him famous around the world. A huge success, it's been shown in fifty countries, but it has countless critics, people who say it's exploitative, showcases aggression and appeals to the lowest common denominator.

Presenter1:10

I'm hired to do a show about dysfunction, he says. Our show is about either outrageous people or outrageous situations. But what is the difference between you and the people on my show? You dress better, you're richer, you had a better education. In the genetic lottery, you had better parents. It was, he says, luck. Um it's fascinating, Jerry Springer, that your life should

Presenter1:33

Part into these two apparently quite separate strands. Does it sit comfortably with you? Are you surprised at your own journey?

Jerry Springer1:40

Well, I'm surprised at success because I believe it is luck. As a kid I wasn't thinking, gee, one day I'm going to be in show business. It never even dawned on me.

Jerry Springer1:51

Virtually every job I've ever had has been handed to me. Someone just said, Hey, we'd like you to do this. I mean, all these jobs I've had.

Jerry Springer2:01

I never sat down and said, gee, I would like to do that. It just happens.

Presenter2:04

Quite a C V. I'm wondering what the young idealistic guy working for Bobby Kennedy would think if he was looking at at this man now in this career.

Jerry Springer2:13

You know, how lucky can one person get? But if I'm proud of e anything, it's that I never gave up my liberalism. Every job I've had, I've always been kind of on the side of the disenfranchised, whether it was the civil rights movement, whether it was my politics, whether it was as a talk show host, it's always the little guy versus the establishment. I still hang around with the same people I always hung around with.

Jerry Springer2:37

You know, my interests are still working class interests, and I'm very comfortable there. I'm not saying it's morally superior to other classes, I'm just saying we're all the same.

Jerry Springer2:47

I'm very comfortable being there.

Presenter2:49

Let's have some music. Tell me about your first choice today. What have we got?

Jerry Springer2:52

Well, uh I played the character Billy Flynn in the musical Chicago here in the West End.

Presenter2:58

This is not you singing it, though.

Jerry Springer3:00

No, what you're about to hear no, you know, my voice has been outlawed.

Jerry Springer3:04

No, but all I care about is the song that I sing, but this is his first song, and when he's first introduced, you know, All I Care About is Love, which is a little bit cynical. And it's the first time I've ever been on stage in a play. I mean, most people, at least as kids, were in plays like in high school. I never was in a play.

Jerry Springer3:25

So here I am at 65, and they come and say, We want you to be in this musical. And obviously, I'm not a professional singer or a dancer. Well, I figure if they're crazy enough to ask me, I gotta have at least the guts to say yes. I'm not sure. I think they might have been drinking at the time, but they never bothered to figure out if I could sing. Everyone working on the show thought someone else had asked me to sing. So there you go. Now I got the job.

Speaker 33:53

I don't care about expensive things Cashmere coats and diamond rings Don't mean a thing All I care about is love

Speaker 34:04

Uh

Speaker 44:04

Uh

Speaker 34:04

That's what I'm here for. I don't care if we're wearing silk or a vats.

Speaker 44:05

But I'm here.

Speaker 34:09

Ruby stats, satin spats don't mean a thing. All I care about is love.

Presenter4:18

Uh

Presenter4:18

All I Care About from the London cast recording of Chicago performed there by Henry Goodman in the role of Billy Flynn, the role that you were playing in the West End. Nervous?

Jerry Springer4:28

I was really nervous opening night. Walking down the steps as the song starts, I'm going, Oh, this is gonna be brutal It turned out okay, nobody died, but that was scary.

Presenter4:40

Right, let's talk about the Jerry Springer show then. Uh the guests. Am I right the guests phone in and say can I be on your show?

Jerry Springer4:45

It cannot

Jerry Springer4:46

We get thousands of calls a week from people who want to be on the show.

Presenter4:50

Why would it?

Jerry Springer4:51

I'm not sure. I well, first of all, they're fans of the show. I mean, that's the only way they would have the phone number to call. We're not in the phone book.

Presenter4:55

Right.

Jerry Springer4:59

So the only way you would know our number is by watching the show every day and they put the number on the screen.

Presenter5:03

I I can understand maybe that people might think, you know, I really want to be on T V and actually I think it'll be good to confront my ex husband about the fact that I'm now sleeping with his stepson or that I want to marry my horse. It's good if my neighbors know about that sort of stuff.

Presenter5:18

One might wonder, though, that after the experience they might think, maybe not so good, maybe that wasn't right to deal with it.

Jerry Springer5:23

In other words, they have total control over what we air.

Presenter5:27

Do they?

Jerry Springer5:27

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, we we don't want to hurt anyone. I mean, you know, our show is so over the top. We're not out to hurt people. This is supposed to be entertainment. We don't want to do a show and then someone feels bad about what was on it. So there are two things that we do. One, you can, after the show, say, I want that part out, I want this part out. So they get control over that. Also, if there are going to be surprises.

Jerry Springer5:50

They're given a list of 21 possible surprises. They don't know which of the 21 it's going to be, but they know any of those 21 is a possibility.

Presenter5:59

You say it's entertainment, but an important element of the show is having the audience who very clearly have an opinion and appear to be encouraged to voice that opinion. So people are being judged for their behaviour.

Jerry Springer6:05

Yeah.

Jerry Springer6:07

Yep.

Jerry Springer6:09

Sure, and they're perfectly okay with it. There's no one who comes on the show that doesn't know what our show is about.

Presenter6:14

Yeah.

Jerry Springer6:14

They're all into it for the moment.

Jerry Springer6:18

And as angry as they might get at the moment, getting carried away as they're telling the story, as soon as the show's over, I gotta tell you, they're like everyone else. They all wanted pictures and autographs. They all asked me, Jerry, can you hold my baby while I take this picture? They're like everybody else. Now, are there exceptions? Of course, we've had neo-Nazis on that I want nothing to do with and stuff like that.

Presenter6:37

I was going to ask you about that, the neo-Nazis or the Ku Klux Klan. You know, that's not entertainment. Those are people with vicious views that can incite all sorts of not just ill feeling, but violence and hatred, and can perpetrate hatred. Is an entertainment show the right place for them? And didn't one of them say to you, talking about your Jewish ancestry, a revolting phrase about a relative being made into a lampshade, or that's not entertainment?

Jerry Springer6:42

But that's

Jerry Springer6:43

Who's your uncle?

Jerry Springer6:57

Sure.

Jerry Springer7:02

Well, I agree that's not entertainment, although there's a part of me that the only way we beat down these.

Jerry Springer7:09

What I consider evil ideas is by sunlight. It's when you keep it quiet that it grows. But I was hired to host a show. I have nothing to do with who gets on the show, what the subjects are. I'm not allowed to know what the show is about. When I show up, I'm given a card, and on the card that I hold are the names of the guests, but that's all. I never know what their stories are. I never know anything about them. And the idea is, then my reaction will be authentic.

Presenter7:38

What about the idea you'll have heard it propagated many, many times, I'm sure, that your show and shows like it contributes to a coarsening of our culture, that if people think that it's fine to be exhibitionist about the ways that they behave that are extreme and often hurt other people and are exploitative, then it contributes to a general sort of coarsening of our culture and of what we expect of each other as individuals.

Jerry Springer8:02

If people say that, I you know, I disagree.

Jerry Springer8:05

It's kind of absurd and it trivializes human behavior to believe. Now, that's the one answer. And then the other answer is celebrity culture came first. Ever since I've been a kid, there were magazines about these celebrities, who's sleeping with whom, who's doing what, every day's headlines in the newspapers. You cannot say, we permit these stories about famous people, but you're not allowed to have it on television about poor people.

Jerry Springer8:35

That is such hypocrisy that I don't think then I give a serious answer to it.

Jerry Springer8:42

Oh, I want to hold your hand.

Presenter8:44

After all that?

Jerry Springer8:47

No, you're a nice person. I vividly remember it was the third week in January 1964. I'm sitting in my fraternity house studying for finals. Joel Picker, a fraternity brother of mine, came knocking on the door and opening before I even said, come in. And he says, you've got to listen to this. And I vividly remember that. I said, who is this group? What is going on here? And it's the Beatles singing, I want to hold your hand.

Speaker 49:21

Oh yeah

Speaker 49:23

Tell you something.

Speaker 49:25

I think you'll understand. Can I say that something?

Speaker 49:32

I wanna hold your hand

Speaker 49:36

I wanna hold on.

Presenter9:43

The Beatles, and I want to hold your hand. Let's find out a little bit more about your appearance. First of all, tell me who Miss Goldberg was.

Jerry Springer9:50

Uh I don't even know if she really exists. It may have been a name used, but that is the name of the alleged sponsor.

Jerry Springer10:00

of my parents getting them out of Nazi Germany in 1939, in August of 39.

Jerry Springer10:07

Most of my family was exterminated in the camps.

Jerry Springer10:10

and mom and dad, their families had been taken away, they didn't know where they were taken.

Jerry Springer10:16

So mom and dad were trying desperately for about two or three years to get out of Germany, but they couldn't get visas any place. And at the last moment England, Great Britain, gave um the visas to them.

Jerry Springer10:29

And they were among the last.

Jerry Springer10:32

80-something people to get out of Germany, out of Berlin, to get to London. And the reason we know that is because.

Jerry Springer10:39

The numbers on their visas.

Jerry Springer10:42

They can figure out based on the dates that there were like eighty people still to get out before September first of thirty nine. And a month later, once they came to London, a month later my mother gave birth to my sister. So neither she or I would even be here had it not been for Great Britain letting us, you know, letting my parents in.

Presenter11:01

Extraordinary.

Jerry Springer11:02

And you had to have a sponsor, which is the answer to your question. We have no idea who that person was. God bless her if she really existed. What is equally likely is that there was an agency here in London that was helping Jews get out.

Jerry Springer11:17

And they would put down a Jewish name as an obvious sponsor, and Goldberg is a typically Jewish name.

Presenter11:23

And so your parents were part that that very last slim tranche of, I think it was around about 80,000 people who were allowed in the UK.

Jerry Springer11:30

They were literally at the very end. Yeah, I just made it.

Presenter11:33

Just me.

Presenter11:35

You said that being a child of parents who had been subjected to what your wider family, and particularly your parents, were part of, has indelibly shaped the person that you are. I w I wonder how.

Jerry Springer11:42

And

Jerry Springer11:47

It's um the fundamental part of my existence. It shapes my philosophy, it's made me a liberal, it's taught me, as we pass on to our daughter, that you never judge someone based on what they are, just on what they do.

Presenter12:03

Did it somehow help you to understand more of who your parents were, maybe even though you'd never well, I'm sure you'd never had those those sort of discussions with them?

Jerry Springer12:11

Very much so. There's this story which I'll try to get through, but it really makes the point.

Jerry Springer12:18

My dad was very short. He was like five foot one. He's now near eighty. I mean back at the time of the story that I'm going to tell you. And my mom was afraid to get in the car with him because he was so short he would look like through the steering wheel kind of driving. And every time I came home, she'd always say, Gerald, could you talk to Dad?

Jerry Springer12:41

About that, to have him stop driving the car. So one day I finally said, Okay, Mom, I'll talk to him.

Jerry Springer12:47

And I said, Dad, you know, mom gets nervous and you don't really need the car anymore because the truth is you hardly ever drive it.

Jerry Springer12:54

And uh what he said to me, which just

Jerry Springer12:57

Blew me away at the time. He said, Maybe when I 80 I'll give it up, but you never know when you have to get away.

Jerry Springer13:07

And I was stunned because my dad never talked.

Jerry Springer13:12

Hardly ever talked about the Holocaust or something like this. And I'm thinking, has he for the forty years that he was living in you know in America

Jerry Springer13:22

Has he every night been thinking that he might have to get away?

Jerry Springer13:26

You know, I just didn't say anything. I just couldn't believe it.

Presenter13:29

Should we have some music? Let's have some music.

Jerry Springer13:32

What's what's this?

Presenter13:32

Yeah.

Jerry Springer13:33

This is The Tennessee Walls, recorded among other people by Patty Page. I guess she had the big hit with it. This was back in the 1950s. We had just come to America. There was a radio in my kitchen, and I would sit there and listen. And what I remember, The Tennessee Walls, that was one of the first songs that, wow, and I remember my parents loved it, and we all would gather around the radio and listen to the song.

Speaker 413:53

I was dancing with my darling

Speaker 413:58

To the ten of sea wall

Speaker 414:02

What an old friend I happen

Speaker 414:06

To see

Speaker 414:09

I introduced her to my loved one.

Speaker 414:14

And while they were dancing

Speaker 414:18

My friend stole my sweetheart from me.

Presenter14:23

That's Patty Page and The Tennessee Wolves.

Presenter14:27

And so, Gerry Springer, you arrived in America and to use your own phrase, the the Americanization of Gerald began.

Jerry Springer14:35

I was five years old. I had this thick British accent, of course. You know, my mom dressed me in what she thought boys wore at that time, which was blue shorts, a jacket, a bow tie, a beret, and knee socks. My first day to school in America, and the kids beat me up and ripped my suit. And I had this British accent. I just didn't fit in. And so my parents really went on this campaign. They would make sure that I was really Americanized.

Presenter15:01

Do you think were your parents archetypal immigrants? I mean, clearly your parents worked very hard. You they only spoke German, they had to learn English. W was was patriotism a an important part of that?

Jerry Springer15:04

Yeah.

Jerry Springer15:11

Absolutely.

Presenter15:12

Being an American

Jerry Springer15:13

Yes, yes, um it's the American dream.

Jerry Springer15:18

You know, I go in one generation, my family went from annihilation and a holocaust to this ridiculously privileged life I live today because of my silly television show. So I know America can work.

Presenter15:29

Work.

Presenter15:31

Did they talk to you about politics in in a pure sense? Was that

Jerry Springer15:33

Yes, it was very much a part of my upbringing. Every night at the kitchen table it was my mom, Dad, Evelyn, my sister Evelyn, and myself.

Jerry Springer15:42

And we each would have to talk about one story we read in the newspaper.

Presenter15:47

So the twenty-second of November nineteen sixty three, would you have been just finishing high school then?

Jerry Springer15:51

I was nineteen, I was a junior in college.

Presenter15:54

And do you remember hearing of J F K's assassination?

Jerry Springer15:55

I'll tell you how I heard. I was a junior in college and there was a campus radio station. I had the noon to one o'clock show. And behind me we had these teletype machines where if four bells rang, you knew it was a major story. And you'd go to the teletype and it would have typed out what the headline was. And the four bells ring and I go over there and it says shots have been hi fired at the Dallas Motorcade.

Jerry Springer16:23

And then four bells again, and the President's been shot.

Jerry Springer16:28

And there, there's this little black and white television set, and one of the networks, it was Walter Cronkite on CBS News, was cutting in saying the president was shot. I now go back to the radio station. I said, nothing professional. I said, oh my God, the president shot. Turn on your television sets. But that's how I heard. I actually had to announce it. That's how I find out.

Presenter16:50

Jerry, tell me about your next piece of music.

Jerry Springer16:52

Blowing in the wind became the anthem of the sixties.

Jerry Springer16:56

It was written by Bob Dylan and then recorded by Peter Paul and Mary, I think in 1961. So that was the part of the 60s that was still pure. All things were possible. We would put a man on the moon before the end of the decade. If we would cure poverty, we would create the Peace Corps. We were going to save the world. It was a beautiful, pure time.

Speaker 417:19

How many roads must a man walk down before they call him a man? The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind. The answer is blowing in the wind.

Presenter17:44

Peter Paul and Mary and Blowin' in the Wind. So, Jerry Springer, you were sort of gradually sucked into politics through what had happened at home, through the heritage of your parents and the relatives that had been lost in the Holocaust. Um, you went to New Orleans because why? Were you was that a civil rights thing? You were fascinated by the fights that were under

Jerry Springer18:01

Yeah, um and just as soon as I got down there, September 5th of 1961.

Jerry Springer18:08

That week the high school in New Orleans was integrating, and they had all the troops there and people protesting. So right away I was thrown into it. And I got more and more involved in politics then, active in the civil rights movement in the marches. I became active in the anti-war movement, the war being the Vietnam War.

Jerry Springer18:28

So I go to work for Bobby Kennedy, I get offered a job with Kennedy.

Presenter18:31

What kind of a figure was he? I mean, the Kennedys were known for being these sort of electric, charismatic, vigorous people.

Jerry Springer18:35

Yeah, he was my in my lifetime my political hero. I mean, I thought he was totally authentic. He wasn't very articulate, frankly.

Jerry Springer18:45

You know, John Kennedy could intellectualize how we ought to have civil rights or how poverty in the inner city is unacceptable. With Bobby, he would just walk into the neighborhood and say, this is wrong, and he would stutter and all that. But you kind of knew he really believed it. And that, to me, politics is authenticity. If you're real, people get it.

Presenter19:06

I want to ask you about the moment then that you heard of of Bobby Kennedy's assassination. How did you hear?

Jerry Springer19:12

I got a call late at night. I was in Ohio at the time it happened. It just seemed unbelievable.

Jerry Springer19:19

Almost despairingly unbelievable, the John Kennedy assassination was shock like this could never happen in the world.

Jerry Springer19:27

With Bobby, it was, oh my God, they're really gunning us all down. There was just this despair. And after Bobby Kennedy was shot, many people just kind of dropped out, the young people, and that's why we had Richard Nixon elected president.

Presenter19:42

Tell me about your next piece of music, then.

Jerry Springer19:44

This next one is Abraham, Martin and John.

Jerry Springer19:48

This was the incredible year of nineteen sixty eight. In American politics it was unbelievable. February of nineteen sixty eight, there's the Ted Offensive, where America finally realizes that we're not winning the war.

Jerry Springer20:00

Martin Luther King gets assassinated. Two months later, Bobby Kennedy gets assassinated. Two months after that, the riots in Chicago at the Democratic Convention. It seemed like every one of our heroes was being assassinated. John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy

Jerry Springer20:19

And Dion wrote this song, and it kind of became such a powerful song at the time because it really said what we all felt. It was like they keep killing our heroes.

Speaker 420:34

Anybody here?

Speaker 420:37

See my older and every night

Speaker 420:41

Can you tell me where he's gone?

Speaker 420:48

He freed a lot of people, but it seemed good they die young.

Speaker 420:54

You know I just look around and it's gone.

Presenter20:59

Dion and Abraham Martin and John. So, Jerry Springer, you were elected to Cincinnati City Council at the you were just twenty six. Very young. Did you feel ready for the responsibility of a life in politics?

Jerry Springer21:07

Very young did you

Jerry Springer21:12

I must have. I just moved to Cincinnati to practice law. This was after the Bombay's assassination. And I was still ticked off about the war, so I decided to run in the Democratic primaries.

Jerry Springer21:23

as an anti-war candidate, and that's how I got to be known.

Presenter21:27

Mm-hmm.

Jerry Springer21:27

And then the next year I was elected in a citywide election to city council.

Presenter21:32

So you ended up as a city councillor at 26, which is a young age, and then you'd been working at this job for what, four years?

Jerry Springer21:34

Yeah.

Presenter21:39

And it was exposed in a police raid that you had been somebody who had visited a prostitute. And you did a very it must have been an incredibly unusual thing for the time. You went on T V to talk directly to the electorates. You you held a press conference.

Jerry Springer21:54

Yeah, but just to get the facts right, it was nothing to do with the police, nothing like that.

Presenter21:58

Okay.

Jerry Springer21:58

I announced there was nothing in the newspapers, there was nothing going on.

Jerry Springer22:03

I held a press conference one day and said I'm resigning from council and everyone says why what are you resigning for?

Presenter22:08

Yeah.

Jerry Springer22:08

And I said that several years ago I had visited a prostitute, and I was getting these these phone calls. So I didn't want to live my life being blackmailed. You know, we're gonna tell. We know you where deposit.

Jerry Springer22:22

So I told the public I'm an out.

Jerry Springer22:25

So I first resigned, and then I held a press conference saying why I resigned. And then everyone said, Well, what did you resign for? I said, Well, it was inappropriate. You're entitled to know this. And I

Jerry Springer22:38

I was young, I was naive, it was wrong what I did.

Jerry Springer22:42

I probably overreacted, you know.

Presenter22:44

And how did the voters react to you?

Jerry Springer22:46

Well, the next election they over I came in first.

Jerry Springer22:50

Because they thought I overreacted. I don't use it as an excuse, but they figured a lot of young guys have been with a prostitute. And then I was reelected, came in first, and then the next election I was elected mayor of Cincinnati, and that's when my career suddenly took off.

Presenter22:54

Yeah.

Presenter23:04

Let's have some music. Tell me about the next piece of music.

Jerry Springer23:07

Here Comes the Sun has particular relevance to me because.

Jerry Springer23:12

It is the song that my wife marched down the aisle to in my wedding, in our wedding, and it is also the song that our daughter marched down the aisle to two and a half years ago. And it's beautiful. Here Comes the Sun, which describes my wife and my daughter.

Speaker 423:31

He comes the sun to do

Speaker 423:34

Here comes the song I say it's alright

Speaker 423:43

It darling, it's been a long, lonely week.

Speaker 423:51

Little darling

Speaker 423:53

It feels like

Speaker 423:55

Since it's been here.

Speaker 423:58

Here comes the

Presenter23:59

The Beatles and Here Comes the Sun, he said, Jerry Springer, that was played when your wife came down the aisle and also when your daughter came down the aisle.

Jerry Springer24:05

Yeah.

Presenter24:06

Of years ago. How did you uh meet your wife?

Jerry Springer24:08

A blind date. It was instant. I mean, I literally

Jerry Springer24:12

New that night.

Jerry Springer24:14

That this would ultimately be my wife. I know it sounds corny, but it was absolutely true. No. I don't think she had the ha.

Presenter24:20

That was my next question because actually, that's a profoundly lovely thing to think, but you're in a great deal of difficulty if the person at the other side of the dinner table does.

Jerry Springer24:27

Well she did uh I don't know that she thought husband, but there was an immediate mutual attraction.

Presenter24:33

Do you think you're an easy person to be married to?

Jerry Springer24:36

Ah

Jerry Springer24:37

Yes, except for my time away.

Presenter24:40

Are you a you're a romantic, an idealist?

Jerry Springer24:43

Yeah, yeah. You know, I I well up at sound of music. I mean, geezel.

Jerry Springer24:48

So there's you know, there's not a lot of macho about me there, but life is luck. And I've been so lucky that I don't have any particular talent, but I've been successful in a business that no one would have thought that I would be successful in.

Presenter25:02

But you do have a sort of Barnum and Bailey aspect to your character. I mean, you called you, you know, the Ringmaster was the name of the.

Jerry Springer25:08

That's because of the show.

Presenter25:09

The kind of circus thing, you know, I mean, you got into a ring with a live bear on TV to fight it.

Jerry Springer25:15

Right.

Jerry Springer25:16

I'm pretty playful and uh

Presenter25:18

Well, I'm pretty playful, but I wouldn't like to go to the bottom.

Jerry Springer25:20

Well, here's what happened. Here's how I got trapped into that.

Presenter25:23

Okay.

Jerry Springer25:24

You know, you're the mayor, and every day you're getting requests for this, that, and the other. And so you get a request for a charity. For every minute you stay in the ring with this bear, you know, we'll raise five thousand dollars for

Jerry Springer25:37

Honestly, I don't even remember what the charity was, but it was for charity.

Jerry Springer25:40

And everyone starts laughing, oh, you wrestle a bear. And I said, what? And they said, yeah, but it'll be muzzled. Go ahead. Ah, fine. Let's do it. You know.

Jerry Springer25:48

What I didn't know is they put it on the six o'clock news, so on the day that it happened, I was gonna fight the bear live.

Jerry Springer25:59

Now it's suddenly the day, and now I'm getting frightened.

Jerry Springer26:02

I said, what do you mean?

Presenter26:02

No.

Jerry Springer26:05

So now you show up, you look at the bear. There's a huge crowd there. And I'm going, This is stupid And they coach me. They say, You dance around with the bear, but just don't touch him on the nose.

Jerry Springer26:18

It's the one thing. Don't touch him on the nose. Now he's muzzled, so he can't bite you, but he can still whack you and okay. So I'm dancing around for the first minute like an idiot, but he's not getting me. You know, because I'm just dancing round.

Jerry Springer26:33

Don't this is good, five thousand dollars, another minute. Whoa, now I'm starting to feel, oh, I got this. I'm gonna touch him on the nose. How bad can it be? I touch him on the nose.

Jerry Springer26:45

Where his paw came from.

Jerry Springer26:48

And there is a picture in the Cincinnati Inquirer the next morning. I am horizontal in the air, in the air. My glasses are flying. He whacked me on the side of the head and it really hurt. I'm a grown-up. I can't start crying. Cameras are zooming in. And so I didn't get that last $5,000, but we got $10,000.

Presenter27:09

Should have just written them a cheque.

Jerry Springer27:10

I should have.

Presenter27:11

What's the next piece of music?

Jerry Springer27:13

Wind Beneath My Wings. This, when Katie, our daughter, became 13, she became Bat Mitzvah, which is in the Jewish religion. A bar mitzvah is when symbolically a young boy becomes a man. And they have Bat Mitzvah daughters, which are the equivalent. So we had a big party for her, and I was at the time anchoring the news. And so I paid the photographers as a side job to put together this nice five-minute video of Katie's life from birth through 13. And the background music was Wind Beneath My Wings. And it was just this beautiful tape. And it's the last video we had at my parents. And it's become this family tradition. Now, at all events, we show this of little Katie going from birth to so that's what it was. And this is the song.

Speaker 428:07

Do you ever know that you're my hero?

Speaker 428:15

Everything I would like to

Speaker 428:25

An Eagle.

Speaker 428:30

You are the wind beneath my wave.

Presenter28:31

Wait.

Presenter28:36

Bet Midler and Wind Beneath My Wings. So Jay, you've said that that was for Katie in the film about Mitzvah. You danced it's called in America Dancing with the Stars, which is a show where celebrities each week is a huge show here as well, strictly come dancing.

Speaker 428:42

Right.

Jerry Springer28:46

The stars.

Jerry Springer28:49

Yeah.

Presenter28:53

But you went on it because you wanted to learn to waltz.

Jerry Springer28:56

Yeah, for Katie's wedding. I was thirty five years older than any of the other contestants in the show. So, you know, when they originally asked, I said, No, that's you know, I don't I don't know how to dance, that's not for me And then, you know, ultimately my daughter convinced me, Dad, do it, you'll learn to dance for the wedding and I'm always telling Katie to

Presenter28:56

Peace is wedding.

Jerry Springer29:14

to be confident in herself. So she threw it right back at me while Dad.

Jerry Springer29:20

Give it your best, that's all that counts. Okay, you win. So, um, I went on the show and then the day of the waltz, you know, we had her on the show, which was great.

Presenter29:30

So how many millions would have watched that then? Like tens of millions?

Jerry Springer29:32

Thirty five, forty million people were watching. And everyone knew that story of Katie and how she overcame things and everything. So here it was. It was a great mom.

Presenter29:42

But our our listeners will not know, so what you are

Jerry Springer29:44

Katie was born with some disabilities and she's without getting into the details. She proved everyone wrong and she's now

Jerry Springer29:52

graduated college, got married, now has a son. She's just this wonderful person, but she beat the odds and she's always overcome them. So this was just this wonderful moment. Now but now it's the wedding. It's now time for the father daughter dance. And of course, this is the moment.

Jerry Springer30:08

Well, Katie's wearing this beautiful wedding gown.

Jerry Springer30:11

And in the middle of the dance, she says, Dad, they can't see our feet because the gown covered our feet. So I didn't have to learn to dance anything. The whole thing was for naught. We were just laughing.

Presenter30:20

And what are your I I noticed in your book you said Katie for President. You know, you can't probably help but have ambitions for our children. What are your what would you love to see Katie do?

Jerry Springer30:28

What do you love?

Jerry Springer30:29

Just what she's doing. She works with disabled children and she's wonderful with that. And I just wanted to be happy. That's all I want in life, you know?

Presenter30:39

On the desert island where I'm about to send you at the end of this recording, there will be no audience, there will be no spotlight, there will be no spangled shirt slashed to the waist where you can waltz in front of forty four million people. You'll be all alone. How will it be for Jerry Springer all alone?

Jerry Springer30:40

I'm going to send you at the end of this rep

Jerry Springer30:55

Oh, I'm fine, all alone without the crowd. Are you? But I'd want my family. Yeah. Can't have them?

Presenter31:01

No?

Presenter31:02

All all alone.

Jerry Springer31:03

I can't imagine life without my family though. That that would be yeah, that would be awful. Without the crowds?

Jerry Springer31:11

Where do I sign up?

Presenter31:12

Well, you are very famous and I'm wondering what you think your parents what would they make of this this incredible journey that you

Jerry Springer31:19

Well, they'd be because while they were alive they were very proud. So I know they'd be proud. And they loved me. You know, I was I was the son that in their mind couldn't do anything wrong.

Presenter31:28

And they told you, did you? I mean, some people say, Well, I just know my parents were proud. Did they tell you?

Jerry Springer31:32

Oh no, they were always telling me, yeah.

Jerry Springer31:35

They could kvel is how they said. Gerald, I could kvel.

Presenter31:41

Let's have your final piece of music, then.

Jerry Springer31:43

My generation in America was Elvis Presley. So Elvis was the first superstar in terms of rock and roll. Every boy wanted to be Elvis. So when I hear Love Me Tender, it's my adolescence, my youth.

Speaker 431:58

Love me tender

Speaker 432:02

Love me true

Speaker 432:05

Oh my dream.

Speaker 432:07

It's fulfilled.

Speaker 432:11

For my darling

Jerry Springer32:11

Oh my

Speaker 432:15

I love you.

Speaker 432:18

Um

Presenter32:20

Always will

Presenter32:24

Elvis Presley and Love Me Tender. So, Jerry Springer, this is the point where I will give you a copy of the Torah and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take a book of your own choosing. What will your book be?

Jerry Springer32:37

Probably a photo album if I'm stuck on an island alone.

Jerry Springer32:42

Just a photo album of all the pictures of my family's life, my friends' li you know, just that would be the thing. As a practical matter, that would be what you'd want to look at.

Presenter32:53

Okay, well, I mean, technically it is a book, and you are allowed it. You're working within the rules, so your photograph album, as published by you, is your book to take, and a luxury, then, to make life somehow a little more bearable.

Jerry Springer33:06

A cheeseburger machine?

Presenter33:08

Yeah, that I think that's fine. Not really so practical because your your arteries are gonna furr up, I reckon, at least after eighteen months.

Jerry Springer33:14

Yeah, but if I'm alone on the beach I don't want to live forever.

Presenter33:16

Um and if you had to choose just one of these eight, which one track would you choose?

Jerry Springer33:23

I'd say either the Tennessee Walls or Wind Beneath My Wings.

Presenter33:27

What do you reckon?

Jerry Springer33:28

All right, um the wind beneath my wings.

Presenter33:31

Jerry Springer, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Jerry Springer33:35

Thank you for having me.

Presenter33:43

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.