Nicky Haslam

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand nine.

Presenter0:27

My castaway this week is the interior designer and socialite Nikki Haslam.

Presenter0:32

Around seven invitations a day land on his doormat, though surely not many for parties as celebrated as the ones he throws himself.

Presenter0:40

His life defies easy description. In America, in the nineteen sixties, he hung out with Andy Warhol, got to know Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor, and met Sid Sharisse and President Kennedy. And after all that

Presenter0:52

He became a cowboy.

Presenter0:53

Impressed by the sleek style of the States, when he returned to Britain, he drifted into interior design.

Presenter0:59

His father thought he was a wastrel, but his clients didn't. They've included Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart, and Brian Ferry.

Presenter1:06

My life has been one of passion, and I'm very faithful to my passions in life, he says. It seems that I'm a bit of a fliberty gibbert, but I'm actually not. I read a lot, I know a lot, and I share with other people. Um I wonder, Nicky Haslam, if uh the trick you pull off is to appear to be something of a dilettante, but in fact you work incredibly hard.

Nicky Haslam1:27

Well, I think I do work quite hard and I certainly try to not make it too apparent because I think that if people work too hard and show it, they tend to not enlighten the world or their friends, and I think it's very important to make one's friends happy.

Presenter1:41

And this idea of appearing to be effortless, that that translates itself into your interiors too. I mean, anything that you've done, you wouldn't possibly want people to know as they walked into a room that it had been designed by a designer.

Nicky Haslam1:52

Yes, I think that is true. I don't have a a stamp, but I have a signature. Also, I do think it's important that there's humour in a decor as well as beauty and elegance and comfort and all the things that everybody knows should be there. I try and inject that last moment of humour.

Presenter2:07

Most people who know who you are you're not they're not your clients. They know you from the social pages. They see your photograph here, there, and everywhere at all these uh apparently very glamorous uh parties. Do you enjoy the idea that people might think you're somebody who just spends their life going out?

Nicky Haslam2:23

It doesn't matter to me if you if people think that, because I know perfectly well that it's not my actual career being a party goer. It's it's part of the fun of life, in the aftermath of one's career perhaps and I think it it it brings my life into the present and my work into the present all the time.

Presenter2:41

So it's the idea of being in touch of being in the title. Exactly.

Nicky Haslam2:43

Exactly. It's being in touch, exactly.

Presenter2:45

How many nights a week do you currently go out when you're in London, say? About four. And do you hop? Do you go to three or four things in one night?

Nicky Haslam2:53

Yes, often.

Presenter2:53

Right. Yeah. Would you miss that?

Nicky Haslam2:57

Well, I don't miss it when I don't do it, so uh maybe I wouldn't. But I've n I've n never haven't been cast away before, so I'm but rather looking forward to the experience.

Presenter3:05

Are you one of those people who can throw a party and effortlessly manage to enjoy it at the same time?

Nicky Haslam3:10

It's an awful thing to admit to, yes, but I can. I just love it. I love every moment of it when it's happening.

Presenter3:13

Of it

Presenter3:17

Let's have some music. What's your first disc, Nikki?

Nicky Haslam3:19

Well, this is Maria Callas, who I've always admired above any other opera singer, I think, singing De Puiles Jour from Charpentier's opera Louise. It's rather a dull opera, but it does have this most ravishing aria in it. And I once sent it to um the Princess of Wales, saying I think this is the most beautiful noise I ever heard, and she agreed.

Presenter3:45

Wish it is sweet, goodbye.

Presenter3:58

Overflowing song.

Presenter4:06

What is the end?

Presenter4:39

Maria Calla singing Depuis Le Jour Since the Day from Louise by Gustave Charpentier.

Presenter4:45

At Soniki Haslam, you are an arbiter of would you say good taste? Are you an arbiter of good taste?

Nicky Haslam4:50

Um original taste, I think, rather than good taste. I think good taste can be a bit dead.

Presenter4:55

What are you talking? Taupes and beiges and all of that.

Nicky Haslam4:56

We are taupes and beiges and w well yes, exactly. Um we like I like pinks and mauves, you know me.

Presenter5:02

And you're terribly stylish. Tell me what you're wearing today.

Nicky Haslam5:05

Ooh, pink and mow for that river.

Nicky Haslam5:07

Take me through it top to toe. It's a pink and mauve sort of paisley shirt. And of course it's Top Man, because I live in Top Man. You go there and you see how beautifully people dress and you want to copy every one of them. And grey jeans, very narrow, turned up at the ankles now, which is apparently is the fashion, have to follow it. With no socks and white shoes. Sort of Winkle Picker shoes. Winkle picker shoes, exactly.

Presenter5:30

Um, you say you love to go to Top Man and and for women it would be Top Shop. Most people over the age of uh twenty one f find it a bit depressing'cause it's full of tiny clothes and it's full of terribly young people. You like to be surrounded by the young, do you?

Nicky Haslam5:43

I love to be surrounded by the young and I love to see how the young look and try and squeeze it onto myself.

Presenter5:49

Doing a good job. Um do do you have to do you work out and diet?

Nicky Haslam5:52

God, I've never been on dart in my life, I've never been to a gym. So you're just

Presenter5:55

is naturally rather slow.

Nicky Haslam5:57

Yeah.

Presenter5:57

Well I've

Nicky Haslam5:57

Well, I've just I've got quite good legs. I'm lucky about that. Which is odd'cause I had as I had polio to have good legs. But I'm not in good shape, but I'm better in clothes than not.

Presenter6:06

And you had a rather surprising, quite a radical makeover about ten years ago. Tell me what you did and why you decided to do it. I I'm thinking about the facelift and the hair and the clothes.

Nicky Haslam6:16

Um well, it was the mainly the facelift. I mean, I I'd always I'd talked about it for so long. And then I met this enchanting man called Brown Mayhew. Then I went to him and I said, This one's a with a few wrinkles taken away, this, that, and the other and I saw him write down

Nicky Haslam6:29

N has them full face slipped.

Presenter6:33

Most people, though, whether they have just a few wrinkles taken away or a full facelift, do not talk about it. In fact, they they positively deny that they would even consider going under the knife. Why why have you felt comfortable enough to be open about it? And especially as a man, that's even more unusual.

Nicky Haslam6:46

Partly because I I just simply couldn't afford to be away from work and I went to I went to work the next day after I'd had it.

Nicky Haslam6:53

wearing a a big hat and sunglasses, and my face was the size of a football.

Presenter6:57

But the look you were going for, how would you if you had to describe it in a phrase, at the point at which you started radically altering the way you look, what was the look you were going for?

Nicky Haslam7:06

I suppose it was several different looks. I mean, I'd see people in in the street and say I want to look like that either Punk or Liam Gallagher or just people I admired. I'm a terrible copycat and Shamelian. I quite like looking like other people. I'm not very keen on my own looks is the truth.

Nicky Haslam7:21

I'd quite like to make myself different. I quite like disguise in a funny way.

Presenter7:24

Why is that? Because I mean you've always been uh people even indeed have written about what a beautiful young man you were.

Nicky Haslam7:30

Yes, I think I just never felt convinced by it. And I like sort of trying to look up to date, too. I think that's quite important. Il ilfertra modern, Gertrude Steinstein, and it's absolutely true one must be modern.

Presenter7:41

Do you find the rest of us a bit boring then when you look at us? You know, those of us who sort of pretty much wear the same same thing every day because it seems like

Nicky Haslam7:46

Well, they don't find you boring with him.

Presenter7:49

I wasn't thinking particularly of me. I don't want an on-air critique. I don't think I could stand that. Let's have some music. What's disc number two?

Nicky Haslam7:49

That wasn't

Nicky Haslam7:51

Don't want to know here, Christine.

Speaker 47:52

Yeah.

Nicky Haslam7:57

It's Nat Gonella singing The Isle of Capri, and it's the first noise in the sense that I remember. I remember when I was three or four climbing into my mother's bed in the morning and hearing this song. And of course I haven't heard it since, so you're brilliant to have found it.

Speaker 48:14

Whispered softly, It's best not to linger.

Speaker 48:18

Then as I kissed her hand I could see She wore a plain gold ring on her finger,'Twas goodbye on the isle of Capri.

Presenter8:40

Nat Gonella and the Isle of Capri. You said, Nicky Haslam, that the memory really was of being in your mother's bed.

Nicky Haslam8:46

Absolutely climbing into my mother's bed in the mor during the war.

Presenter8:49

What surrounded you? What kind of bed was it?

Nicky Haslam8:51

It was a four post I remember it very well, yes, it was designed by Geoffrey Scott, four post bed with a wonderful cream coloured sort of canopy with silver gadrooning on it.

Nicky Haslam9:00

and it was very high.

Nicky Haslam9:02

Beds were much higher in those days, and I had to really I had to really haul myself up on on to the bed.

Presenter9:07

That sort of bed denotes a certain sort of privilege. I mean, you grew up in where where was the family home?

Nicky Haslam9:12

It was in Buckinghamshire, near Great Brissendon.

Nicky Haslam9:15

And it was a very pretty sort of 1670 Widow and Mary, perfect sort of doll's house. I say doll's house, it was a farm that was very regular.

Presenter9:24

And surrounded by land and

Nicky Haslam9:25

Woods totally by woods. Woods and fields.

Presenter9:28

Planzodyllic.

Nicky Haslam9:29

It was a it was a d dream house, yes.

Presenter9:31

And when you were what were you, seven years old, you contracted polios?

Nicky Haslam9:35

Seven, I got polio, yes. I was on a b beach in Scotland when I got it riding, and I remember that sort of bolt of pain coming through my side. But then I was paralyzed, so I didn't feel anything.

Nicky Haslam9:45

And in fact, I'm quite philosophical, I suppose. I just thought well this has happened and didn't seem to worry me.

Presenter9:50

And how did your parents deal with it? I mean, they must have been worried if it wasn't.

Nicky Haslam9:53

They were. They were well, the doctor said if he lives he'll never walk, I know I had it pretty badly. But, um, pretty soon that obviously I would would be alive and it just became a frightful bore, really, me in this little shell, um, lying flat for ages and ages.

Presenter10:06

You say a shell, you're in a full body.

Nicky Haslam10:08

I was in a p yes a cast of of my body, half made of plaster of parasol and then bound in with bandages. I could remove my arms from my elbows downward, that's all.

Presenter10:16

And and who looked after you? Was it was your mother in attendance, or did you?

Nicky Haslam10:20

I had a wonderful Austrian she wasn't really nanny, she was just Teresa, she wasn't a nanny, she was just the most wonderful person of my life, and she slept in the room.

Nicky Haslam10:27

Because she had to do everything for me. And um she was really the person I loved most in the world.

Nicky Haslam10:33

For a long, long time.

Presenter10:34

And was it a grand household? Is this right, your mother's godmother was Queen Victoria?

Nicky Haslam10:38

Yes. Right. Her my mother's father's family all worked for the royal family.

Nicky Haslam10:44

The Pouncilmiss were their sort of ra they ran the court, really.

Presenter10:48

And your father's family?

Nicky Haslam10:49

My father was a cotton spinner from Bolton.

Presenter10:51

Now, Nikki, do you mean he actually spun the cotton, or do you mean his family had the mill going? Right, there's an important difference.

Nicky Haslam10:54

No, I mean they made it by then. Right, there's an important difference. But but it wasn't long it wasn't much long after they were spinning it. I mean, my father was born in eighteen eighty six, you see. And a hundred years ago the Maslims were spinning it, literally, and making so little money that one of them had to go and read the newspaper to poor people for a penny a night or something. But they they sold it, the business in in in about nineteen

Nicky Haslam11:17

Hundred.

Nicky Haslam11:18

and my father became a diplomat, and moved down south.

Presenter11:21

And what sort of man was your father? What are your memories from childhood of your father?

Nicky Haslam11:22

Poor.

Nicky Haslam11:26

He was v very, very well read. He was romantic in a certain sense that he loved the Italy and f um of Spain and the and the past.

Nicky Haslam11:38

But he wasn't romantic as a person, and he wasn't very tender. He he was rather remote, rather removed, very good looking, nicely dressed well, except when he used to come to eat, we used to embarrass him to bits.

Nicky Haslam11:49

Mosal hedging clothes.

Nicky Haslam11:51

He once came with Larry, and they came into my room, the painter, and there was a boy sitting in the room, and he didn't move, and I said, Gerald, what

Nicky Haslam12:00

And he looked over. Later on he said, Oh, I'm sorry, I thought they were the plumbers, he said.

Presenter12:06

I don't know, there's so much about that story that's great, I'm not sure.

Nicky Haslam12:10

He came in with Lowry, so he was Yes, he he be he became a great friend of of Lowry's. But he was slightly enigmatic, as my mother was to find out when she fell in love with him.

Nicky Haslam12:21

He wasn't easy.

Nicky Haslam12:23

But he was very attractive, certainly.

Presenter12:25

Let's have some music. Tell me about track number three.

Nicky Haslam12:28

Well, my mother went to Amer my father wouldn't marry her when they met, and so she left him and went to America where she married an American man.

Nicky Haslam12:35

and had a daughter who was my darling sister and so she'd go over to New York quite a lot and she worked for Fanny Brice, the great follies star and so she loved Broadway and she'd bring back Broadway musicals and the film of Call Me Madu or the record and the film of Call Me Murder came and I just wanted to be Ethel Merman from that minute on. And this is her singing You're Just In Love with Dick Himes from Call Me Murder.

Speaker 112:57

Put your head on my shoulder. You need someone who's older. A rubbed down with a velvet glove. There is nothing you can take to relieve that pleasant ache. You're not sick, you're just in love.

Speaker 413:19

It is not so surprising as I feel very strange.

Presenter13:27

Ethel Merman and Dick Haymes and You're Just In Love from Irving Berlin's Call Me Madam.

Presenter13:33

The polio years then, Nikki Haslam, the for three long years you were stuck in bed, some of it in a plaster cast, some of it just in a while.

Nicky Haslam13:40

For about eighteen months I was in a pastor class and then I I just had to be ver live still.

Presenter13:45

I I suppose you your muscles must have almost sort of atrophied it.

Presenter13:50

How long did it take you to learn to walk again?

Nicky Haslam13:52

I suppose about like a month or something. Yes, I suppose I was pretty determined to get over it in my m in my soul. I don't you know.

Presenter13:59

And it was off to eat.

Nicky Haslam14:00

Yeah.

Presenter14:00

Yeah.

Nicky Haslam14:01

Not straight away. I went to private school late. In between I went to school in the Swanage.

Nicky Haslam14:06

Nightmare

Nicky Haslam14:08

Well,'cause I hadn't had I didn't know any children, you see. I didn't I I didn't know what these ghastly little dirty boys who s farted and played games and everything who were they? I only like grown ups.

Presenter14:18

Because you'd spent all that time in the company of enough.

Nicky Haslam14:19

And I remember sort of bearding the younger masters and saying, Is Carol Bruce a better singer than Delaware's Graves? I mean, I've been I've been mad to sort of conversation like that with people.

Presenter14:30

So you didn't take to the bat and the ball and the rugby?

Nicky Haslam14:33

No, never, never, luckily.

Presenter14:34

Why do you say must be a little bit more?

Nicky Haslam14:35

Well, partly'cause when I got when I did get eaten, I didn't have to play games.

Nicky Haslam14:39

Because they realized I was very good at art, and so they just said, hmm, go into the art school.

Presenter14:44

And so you were what age was it, fifteen, when your mother first took you to America?

Nicky Haslam14:49

The year of the coronation. Yes, I must have been fifteen. And we'd go to and we went to see the music box where Fanny Bryce the theatre, where Fanny Bryce had worked, and my mother had bi been so involved in in the theatre. But after about two weeks she got she thought, Well, you can do it yourself now.

Nicky Haslam15:08

And I was picked up by

Nicky Haslam15:10

An enchanting actor.

Nicky Haslam15:12

Near Times Square.

Nicky Haslam15:14

and he took me to stay the weekend with Tallulah Bankhead.

Nicky Haslam15:18

And going when you're fifteen to see Trulevanked is quite something, let me tell you.

Presenter15:22

And especially when you were a beautiful young boy who had fantasized about all the movies. You'd had your Austrian companion describe them, your mother would talk about the movies.

Nicky Haslam15:23

Where

Nicky Haslam15:26

Yeah.

Nicky Haslam15:28

And the funny thing was that in the end w I saw Tlula a lot when I got back to America. Well, she my mother said, I'd give Tlula my love and I didn't sort of take it in.

Nicky Haslam15:39

And I s years later I said to Lulip, Do you ever remember called a girl called Diamond Pansenby?

Nicky Haslam15:44

I said yes, darling, a girl with a very deep voice.

Nicky Haslam15:48

So I suddenly thought m

Presenter15:48

Maybe

Nicky Haslam15:49

Mm.

Presenter15:49

Really? You think maybe there had been a little lost love there?

Nicky Haslam15:50

You think maybe they're

Nicky Haslam15:52

Lost love there.

Presenter15:54

And you say you you were picked up by an actor in Time Scale. Did you I mean, you knew you were gay, there was never a sort of s inno inner turmoil about that. That was absolutely.

Nicky Haslam16:00

No, I died.

Nicky Haslam16:02

Yes, I did. And it it never occurred to me anything else.

Presenter16:05

Right.

Nicky Haslam16:05

in a way. Um uh and I don't feel I'm specially that w way inclined now. I'm I'm uh it's not it's not it's not a big thing in my life.

Presenter16:14

Oh, well I've described you as gay. I mean would you describe yourself as gay? Or

Nicky Haslam16:17

Yes, I would I think I think yes, gay, but not

Presenter16:17

Yep.

Nicky Haslam16:20

What people think now of us gay and are determined in a marriage of gay marriages. That's not for me at all. I'm just sort of.

Nicky Haslam16:29

gay minded rather than gay.

Presenter16:31

Right.

Nicky Haslam16:32

K.

Nicky Haslam16:34

As Jonathan Miller would say.

Presenter16:38

Let's have some music, what's next?

Nicky Haslam16:40

Um I think the next thing is well, w when I went to America p to live in the sixties, I finally met the person I'd always wanted to meet more than anywhere in the world.

Nicky Haslam16:50

Cole Porter. He was old and a bit crotchety, but he was Cole Porter, and he was, to me, incredible to know him, because I just think he's an extraordinary genius with music. And he once told me that Lee Wiley was his favourite singer, and this is her singing his song, Why Shouldn't I?

Speaker 417:06

You be kissed.

Speaker 417:09

You'll be kissed again, all debutants.

Presenter17:14

Uh

Speaker 417:14

Thank you.

Presenter17:14

It's good.

Speaker 417:15

Oh.

Presenter17:15

Uh

Speaker 417:15

Uh

Presenter17:17

And every star that in Follywood

Presenter17:21

Seem to give it a try

Presenter17:25

So why shouldn't

Presenter17:33

Lee Wiley singing Why Shouldn't I? from Coal Porter's Jubilee. Um you went back, Nikki Haslam, in the nineteen sixties then, to America. What what did you look like in the nineteen sixties?

Nicky Haslam17:44

Funny enough, there's some photographs that we found the other day, and I'm wearing exactly practically what everybody's wearing now. Short little leather jacket, narrow jeans, pointed cowboy boots, check shirts. Um it's extraordinary how the b that that look seems to have come back absolutely with David Bailey and I wore it all the time, because I went with David Bailey, the photographer.

Presenter18:04

And to be a young, cool British man in America in the nineteen sixties, when the Beatles were exploding around the world, must have been perfect timing.

Nicky Haslam18:12

Yes, it was good to be the only English boy in New York, cert certainly, because my father had sent me a photograph of the Beatles,'cause they were from Manchester, uh or Liverpool. Definitely Liverpool. Liverpool, yeah. But he was from Manchester. Um and saying these are the sort of new sensation. And I showed this Mrs. Rieland, my boss at Burger, she said, Get them photographed.

Presenter18:21

Definitely live a

Nicky Haslam18:32

And the photograph of the Beatles that we arranged for Vogue was the first one ever printed in America.

Presenter18:37

And you were working in Vogue at that time doing what?

Nicky Haslam18:39

Layout. The layout for the magazine. Mrs. Rieland, Dan of Rieland, who joined Vogue just after I did.

Presenter18:41

Right.

Nicky Haslam18:46

immediately became a great friend and we

Presenter18:49

And she was the legend of her.

Nicky Haslam18:50

She was an an amazing too, and a w wonderful kind person.

Presenter18:54

And you met an incredible array of people, including Wallace Simpson and the Duke of Windsor. Tell me about that.

Nicky Haslam18:59

Yes, so tell me about it.

Nicky Haslam19:01

Well, I I had I had lunch one day with some of some friends in the colony, and they said the Duchess is coming. And she walked in and as she came into the door, every single spoon or knife dropped with this clatter as everybody looked up.

Nicky Haslam19:17

And she walked through the room, sort of smiling.

Nicky Haslam19:20

And she came and she sat down and she said, Hi, I'm Wallace.

Nicky Haslam19:24

No m ceremony at all. She was adorable.

Presenter19:27

And him?

Nicky Haslam19:28

He was but he was more difficult.

Nicky Haslam19:30

He was a bit grouchy, mostly.

Nicky Haslam19:33

I think he didn't especially like Wallace Singh so much of other people. I mean, he he was very je very, very jealous of her. He really, really kept an his eye on her. She he he was lost without her.

Presenter19:44

And so much has been written over the years about what sort of person she was. In your in your eyes, what sort of person was she?

Nicky Haslam19:50

Well, I I absolutely loved her. She was fun. The word is sassy. She just was sassy. She wasn't well read.

Nicky Haslam19:56

She wasn't bright, but she was she just knew how to make the party go.

Nicky Haslam20:00

I thought she was extraordinary.

Presenter20:02

And then you became a cowboy. I have no way of linking the life you were living with the fact that you became a cowboy. How did it happen?

Nicky Haslam20:09

It happened really because I'd the five years in New York, uh, as you say, I was the English boy in New York, I was the sort of centre of a of a movement really, andy and all that lot.

Nicky Haslam20:19

This is Andy Warhol.

Presenter20:20

Uh

Nicky Haslam20:21

And so I just thought that I should do s see something else of the world, not be stuck uh in Manhattan.

Nicky Haslam20:28

Possibly becoming one of those people that only sees people in Manhattan or in New York.

Presenter20:32

And you say you're a cowboy. I mean, w is there something sort of Marie Antoinette-ish about this? Were you sort of playing at it, or were you really out there doing it?

Nicky Haslam20:39

Well, we certainly did we did roundups and we had cattle running on the ranch. You say we? It was a friend of mine, Jimmy Davison, who I bought the ranch with. And we certainly were very involved in proper cowboy life. But it was faintly Marie Antoinette, it must be said. I mean who hasn't wanted to be a cowboy owner? Who hasn't wanted all that gear, all the shapes and the m Stetsons and the bearskins and the fringe buckskins and everything? You had all that. Oh God, yes. Must have looked fabulous, did you?

Presenter21:04

Did you?

Nicky Haslam21:05

I remember I had jeans with studs all over them and John Richardson, my friend, the art critic, said, Oh, you look just like a Queen Anne chair, dear.

Presenter21:13

Seems like a perfect time to have some music. What's next?

Nicky Haslam21:16

Next.

Nicky Haslam21:16

I would often go to um Los Angeles.

Nicky Haslam21:19

to stay with my great franchine Howard.

Nicky Haslam21:22

And one night I'd heard of this wonderful bar.

Nicky Haslam21:24

But I want to go to.

Nicky Haslam21:26

And so Jean said, Oh, take the car and the car just happened to be a tiny Rolls Royce, which was quite nice to drive. Tiny Rolls Royce. Is there such a thing? T a sort of two seat Rolls Royce, you know. And I was driving down Sunset Boulevard and Blue Velvet

Presenter21:30

Tiny rose royal. Isn't there such a thing?

Nicky Haslam21:40

came on the radio, on the on the wires.

Nicky Haslam21:43

And I just remember it being a sort of such a wonderful moment, and this extraordinarily sensual.

Nicky Haslam21:50

Bom bom bom said Bobby Vinton singing in blue velvet.

Nicky Haslam21:54

You won't

Speaker 421:55

Uh

Speaker 421:58

Roulette.

Speaker 422:02

Bluer than velvet was the night.

Presenter22:03

Mm.

Speaker 422:08

Softer than satin was the light

Speaker 422:13

From the start

Speaker 422:18

She wore blue.

Presenter22:23

Bobby Vinton and Blue Velvet. Let's talk about your work, Nikki Hassem. How did you you sort of tripped into becoming an interior decorator almost by not by planning, by accident, really.

Nicky Haslam22:35

But it sort of was active. I I'd I'd done it a bit all all my life. I'd even done a bit in my parents' house. And then I started doing a bit for a few bits for friends.

Presenter22:43

Because friends knew you had taste they could trust on.

Nicky Haslam22:47

No, I think I just insisted.

Nicky Haslam22:50

And in Hollywood I did a bit for Natalie Wood. I did a party for her.

Nicky Haslam22:54

Um

Presenter22:54

Does that not make the subject of being paid rather awkward? I mean, it is your time, and it is your effort, and it is your endeavour.

Presenter23:01

So when you work for friends, or in the beginning at least, that must have been a good idea.

Nicky Haslam23:04

Even in the beginning I didn't charge even. I just loved doing it. It was just a a joy to to have again, as I said, this canvas to work on. And it wasn't until I came back to England and started the business.

Nicky Haslam23:15

They'd actually sent out invoices.

Presenter23:17

And why do you think people get you to do it? What is it that you bring to their homes that they can't bring themselves?

Nicky Haslam23:23

I think I bring a kind of knowledge of what a room should look like instinctively, and I think people understand that in me. I think houses speak.

Nicky Haslam23:33

Rooms speak. They have they have a message. They say, Do this to me and don't do that to me.

Nicky Haslam23:37

And my philosophy, the room speaks first, the client speaks next, and then I have the overall view.

Presenter23:43

It's difficult to to imagine, as you know, most people don't use decorators, most people do it themselves. It's difficult to imagine that you do up something as intimate and significant as somebody's home and then they walk into it and live with all these I mean, would you be buying the sort of, you know, the great Jewish expression, the chutch keys. You'd be buying all the little things around your house.

Speaker 124:00

Yeah.

Nicky Haslam24:00

The Greek Jewish expression the chutchkin.

Nicky Haslam24:03

You don't make your own clothes, do you? So a lot of people do, but most people don't. And you're putting on clothes that somebody else had designed.

Nicky Haslam24:11

It's the same thing, isn't it?

Presenter24:12

Right.

Nicky Haslam24:13

That's it.

Presenter24:13

Uh

Nicky Haslam24:13

Yeah.

Presenter24:13

Uh

Nicky Haslam24:13

Well, I thought that when you if somebody designs a perfect room for you, you've got faith in what you're going to receive.

Nicky Haslam24:19

It's like putting on a perfect bull gun.

Presenter24:21

Now I know the subject of money is vulgar, but what would be the biggest budget that you've worked on for a place?

Nicky Haslam24:27

For four million, I don't know.

Presenter24:29

Just to decorate it.

Nicky Haslam24:31

Partly building it too and designing and and and and saying take this wall down and put that wall there and no, not just on Tchatzka's.

Presenter24:40

Have you ever had a big clash with a client? They've walked into your room and s and s

Nicky Haslam24:43

But

Presenter24:43

Yeah.

Nicky Haslam24:44

Yeah, it was I I'd done a wonderful house for some people in in um in London and um I'd s set the whole mood one evening, and I'd sort of done the lights perfectly, I'd put the curtains exactly exactly I wanted.

Presenter24:44

Yeah, it wasn't.

Nicky Haslam24:56

And I walked to the next morning and they'd brought in lots of copper bowls with mother in law's tongue plants, and I just cried and left. I thought, I can't do it, I can't do it. Give me some of your rules. What are your rules for a chic home? What other other rules? I haven't got many hard and fast rules, I don't think.

Presenter25:13

Where do you stand on photographs, for example? Are you somebody who thinks it's fine to display personal photographs around a room?

Nicky Haslam25:18

Fine if they're royal and on the piano.

Presenter25:20

You see you do have rules. I knew that. Tell me about your next piece of music, then.

Nicky Haslam25:25

Well, I've always adored the the voice of Deanna Durbin, partly because she was the inspiration for Maria Callis. It was when Deanna Durbin was doing her films as a child. Callus was a younger child, would watch them and see her singing and fire to become an opera singer. And this is Deanna Durbin singing the most beautiful song I think ever written by Frank Lasser. By anybody, but by it's by Frank Lasser. Spring will be till late this year.

Speaker 425:50

The music it made in my heart Yes, Tor Hills all things

Speaker 426:02

I needn't cling to this fear, it's merely my

Speaker 426:08

Bring you will be

Presenter26:17

DEANA DURBIN AND SPRING WILL Be A LITTLE LATE THIS YEAR BY FRANK LESSER. I said in the introduction, Nicky Hassan, that your father th thought that you were something of a wastrel. Now I was conscious in using that phrase, because I mean it's pretty uncompromising, that that you said that he said that of you.

Nicky Haslam26:32

It's sort of true. I mean, I think he thought I hadn't got a proper job and I hadn't any kind of a desire or any any kind of hope of doing that. I was so dumb with anything like figures. And so I was slightly lost at what to do. And I think he thought I was a bit of a wastrel.

Presenter26:47

We all we all want to please our parents though, even if we don't always necessarily either agree with

Nicky Haslam26:51

The I mean, you did like your parents as a home.

Presenter26:53

But

Presenter26:54

But were you disappointed that you hadn't managed to please him?

Nicky Haslam26:56

Well, in the end I did,'cause he absolutely adored he'd tell him he'd come to the ranch a lot. He loved that and he was very proud of my success on Vogue and very proud of my the book I'd written, The Sheer Opulance, or they were proud of it certainly they're proud of me at the at the end.

Presenter27:10

So he lived to see all that achievement. And then he died just over twenty years ago.

Nicky Haslam27:11

Yeah achievements.

Presenter27:16

You said it wasn't that you were disinherited, you just didn't inherit.

Nicky Haslam27:20

Exactly. He didn't he thought that as I hadn't got children I didn't need money. I had a sort of minor trust fund when I was younger.

Nicky Haslam27:27

But he left his money to my brother's children. It's quite right.

Presenter27:31

Not having children, is that is that something? Has that ever bothered you, worried you? Have you ever contemplated being in a more you know, a family situation?

Nicky Haslam27:37

I have so many godchildren that I worship and so many children of friends that I love and I see them growing up and being funny and witty and beautiful and everything. I don't really need any of my own, I don't think.

Presenter27:50

I can't help thinking that you would have been a rather fantastic father. You would have had a lot to give.

Nicky Haslam27:54

Yes, I think I would have been quite a good parent. I think that's true. I don't miss it, but I and I don't regret it, but

Nicky Haslam28:00

If it had happened, it would have been quite um

Nicky Haslam28:03

Entertaining for both of us, I think.

Presenter28:04

And what do you do with your godchildren? Are you one of these uh very badly behaved godparents who does all the things that their parents would never dream of doing with them?

Nicky Haslam28:12

Encourages them in the b most possible bad ways, yes, I I hope so. Only'cause it's fun.

Presenter28:17

Um, you've you've used the word fun a lot. When do you have the most fun?

Nicky Haslam28:23

I think I have fun almost all the time. It's so awful.

Nicky Haslam28:26

Isn't that awful to say that? I'm so unserious. I I I'm not sure I can distinguish between fascination and fun and knowledge and everything. They all it all seems to mould together to form a former life, former philosophy.

Presenter28:40

Let's have some music, what's next?

Nicky Haslam28:42

Well, the next uh the Strauss is very important to me because when I was fifteen or sixteen I met somebody called Reimer von Hoffmannstahl, who was the g grandson of the von Hoffmannstahl, who wrote all the words to the Strauss operas. And I'd go and stay with Reimann and his wife in Austria. And this is René Fleming, who I absolutely love as a person, singing the final act of Daphne. And she said to me the other day when I saw her, she said when she sings the RRRRs at the end, she said it would make a wonderful ringtone, that, wouldn't it?

Presenter30:07

Rennie Fleming and the Very Ending of Daphne by Richard Strice. So, Nikki Haslum, you have had a lot of um monogamous relationships. You're somebody who likes long, single relationships. Are you in a relationship now?

Nicky Haslam30:19

No, I'm not. I'm free and easy and airy and up for anybody.

Presenter30:21

Realities

Presenter30:25

Is that a nice way to be, or do you do you long for companionship of a more permanent nature?

Nicky Haslam30:25

Blazer.

Nicky Haslam30:31

I'm quite enjoying at the moment not being in a in a long relationship, partly'cause the last one was very long and wonderful and

Nicky Haslam30:38

I've sort of can live off that for a bit.

Presenter30:41

And home is in Hampshire.

Nicky Haslam30:43

Home is in Hampshire, yes.

Presenter30:44

What's your what's your house like?

Nicky Haslam30:46

It's a funny little hunting lodge in a beautiful garden by a lake, and it's a sort of dream house. It's tiny, the room's about twelve foot square, and it's very beautiful, and I love it more than anything in the world.

Presenter31:00

I'm picturing the island then. I'm thinking maybe a nice driftwood table, some palm fronds.

Nicky Haslam31:04

Well, absolutely. You've got it in one. I've already thought of exactly how the island's going to be decorated. What would you do? What would be the look?

Presenter31:10

Uh

Nicky Haslam31:12

Well, I I think I think it's got to be as unlike a desadine as possible. I've got to find some old sort of sails from some up former wreck and make some wonderful drapes, haven't I? And and for shade, too,'cause I I may not want to leave.

Nicky Haslam31:27

I don't know yet whether I want to leave or not. I might want to be there. Uh

Presenter31:30

But

Nicky Haslam31:30

But

Presenter31:30

Some music. What's the last piece of music, in effect?

Nicky Haslam31:33

The last thing is m my great great friend Brown Ferry, whose eldest son is my godson who I've known for thirty years now and I'm really is one of my closest friends in the world. Well everything he does I think he's a great poet, a great lyricist and a great musician too, but more than this is to me one of his masterpieces.

Speaker 431:53

I could feel you at the time

Nicky Haslam31:56

Uh

Speaker 431:56

There was no way of knowing

Speaker 432:00

For the rest

Speaker 432:04

The kids have been going

Speaker 432:08

Let's freely add some queen.

Speaker 432:13

Oh, couldn't be learning.

Speaker 432:15

More the sea or on the tide

Speaker 432:19

There's no way to

Presenter32:22

Broxy music, and more than this. So, Nicky, I will give you, as you know, the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. What book are you going to take to the island?

Nicky Haslam32:30

I'm going to take Legacy by Sybil Bedford. It's a trio of novels that all linked together from eighteen ninety to the present day. And it's just such a brilliantly beautiful book. It's it's really history, but it happens to be a novel.

Speaker 132:41

Brill

Presenter32:45

Right. Bound in one volume, it is yours.

Nicky Haslam32:47

One, one volume.

Presenter32:49

And the luxury What on earth will you choose as a luxury?

Nicky Haslam32:52

That's a problem. I thought a flower vase might be interesting, or even a scented candle. But in the end, what I'd really like would be a sort of wonderful eighteenth century picture to remind me of what I love the eighteenth century France. Like the swing by Fragonau or something. Nice big canvas.

Nicky Haslam33:10

Because I could use it as a raff.

Presenter33:11

Yeah.

Nicky Haslam33:11

Yeah.

Nicky Haslam33:12

Uh

Presenter33:12

I I won't comment on that. But you can have it as a luxury, not as a raft. Um and if the waves were to threaten to take away your music, which one would you run through the sand to save?

Nicky Haslam33:23

Oh, I think I'd have to run through the sand to save Ethelmerman. I mean, she's been the saviour of my life. I've got to have her there.

Presenter33:29

It's yours. Nikki Haslam, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island diss.

Nicky Haslam33:33

Thank you, Kirst, it was wonderful.

Presenter33:41

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Speaker 434:29

Uh