Jon Vickers

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a recording of Desert Island Discs as it was being broadcast, rather than the studio recording.

Speaker 10:07

and for that reason you may hear some interference, and some degradation in the sound quality.

Speaker 10:14

For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1968.

Presenter0:22

Desert Island discs.

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Each week a well-known person is asked the question, if you were to be cast away alone on a desert island, which aid gramophone records would you choose to have with you?

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As usual, the castaway is introduced by Roy Plumley. Our castaway this week, ladies and gentlemen, is the Canadian tenor John Vickers.

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George, you have a big collection of records. No, I don't, Roy.

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Uh I think the main reason being that I I I travel so much that I just don't have the time to to enjoy records. And when I am um

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At home

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My whole life is so taken up with music that I just feel that I want to escape from it a little bit. What's your first one?

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Well, my first one is uh

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A song by Bing Crosby in his Road to Utopia he sang Welcome to my dreams.

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I've chosen it because

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Uh, I think the first thing that would happen if a person was marooned is he would if he was a married man and the

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A family man, like I am, his first thoughts would probably be of his wife.

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And

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Welcome to my dreams is a

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is a f sentimental song.

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But it's a very beautiful little song that Bing Crosby sang in this movie.

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Around the time I met my wife.

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And I like to think of that that my wife and my own relationship is one that is still full of lots of romance.

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And

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Welcome to my dreams is because

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When she and I met and married,

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I had nothing else to welcome her with, because my dreams were all that I had.

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Oh come. To my dreams

Jon Vickers2:20

And how are you?

Jon Vickers2:27

Will you be here long?

Jon Vickers2:31

Or just passing through

Speaker 22:37

Flush off that starter

Jon Vickers2:41

Yeah.

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Where have you been?

Speaker 22:43

Yeah.

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Ding Crosby, what's your second record?

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My second record, Roy, is

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True love.

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I've I'm not really interested in the lyrics, I'm only interested in the melody.

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Cold porter, isn't it? Cold porter, yes. And the reason I've chosen it is because I think if one was marooned...

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One would tend to think of the missed opportunities.

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and things that they wish they could have done better.

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And when I listen, every time I hear this wonderful melody of Cole Porter's.

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Um I feel that it it somehow is a a lesson.

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in something that's misfired.

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Trulov played by Mantovani in his orchestra.

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John, whereabouts in Canada were you born?

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I was born in the bread basket of the world.

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In Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, Canada.

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What was it your ambition to be when you were at school?

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A doctor. A medical doctor. What went wrong with that?

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I think um

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Well, maybe it was my own fault for not being a little more determined about it, but

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I think uh I I've I've always wanted to

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sort of do what

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what I should do with my life, and I've always walked through doors that have opened and not tried to force ones that were closed.

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And although all of my school preparation and my A levels,

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Um

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were specifically for

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um medical school

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Uh when I was ready to

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Enter medical school.

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I was just too young for the army.

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And it was the year that all the boys came back from overseas. And I don't know about England.

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But in Canada

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Anyone who served in the Army

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automatically had preferential treatment in the university over any um you know new graduate from university uh from uh from high school and so I just um

Speaker 15:13

Uh

Speaker 25:13

Hey, that's cool.

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became impatient and said, Well, I won't wait the two years that the university asked me to wait.

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And so I went into the business world. Yes, what did you do?

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Well, I took the first job I could get. I went into the

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to a a grocery firm.

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And stayed with them only a very few months and then I was offered an assistant managership with the F.W. Woolworth Company. They sent me up into a funny uh little place called Flynn Flon, Manitoba, which is way, way up north. But then I moved with the Woolworth Company and went to various cities, including Winnipeg, and left them finally in Winnipeg to join the Hudson Bay Company. Were you still keeping up your singing? Always.

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Um I've sung ever since I was a tiny boy. My mother often said that her earliest recollections of me

Speaker 26:00

Instead of the

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Uh where where

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performing in public when I was, I don't know, about four years old or something. And I've always enjoyed it.

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Um where were you performing at this time? In church groups. Always in church uh

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Always in church. My m my background is m is Methodist, Presbyterian background and um

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You know, our ho our whole thinking, our whole lives revolved around the church. Mm-hmm. How did professional singing come into your life?

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Well, it it's the same thing. Uh doors just opened and um

Jon Vickers6:36

It's a

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Uh I walked through them, that was all. I never had any ambitions to be a professional singer, none whatsoever, although I adored singing and and

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I think typical of all young people.

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uh who s when they start out singing, they use it for themselves. It it it it singing is a need, I think, for the individual at the beginning.

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And the ones that don't become

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Professional, the ones that don't make the grade, as they say, I think are the ones who are incapable of.

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Turning it round,

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And using it

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to give to someone else.

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And unless

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Unless music becomes that, then you won't become a professional singer.

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It was a traumatic experience in a way for me to become a professional singer because my whole background had been one that I must never charge for singing. How did it happen?

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Well, I was in Winnipeg and I had done a lot of

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I'd done a lot of uh church work and I was soloist in one of the largest churches in Winnipeg. We become known. And and so, in no time at all, I was in amateur uh operatic groups and uh doing Gilbert and Sullivan and uh then we graduated as they thought.

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to Victor Herbert and uh

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They brought a soprano from Toronto who had not

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you know, who was sort of a big star in Winnipeg.

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And she said, Why don't you study music? I said, I'm not really interested, I'm interested in the business world and she said, Well, make a recording, you should hear yourself And I made a record, she took it to the Conservative Music and they gave me a bursary So I thought, Well, it's it's worth the her fun of

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So they were at the Royal Conservatory of Music.

Speaker 18:26

About your gauge.

Speaker 18:28

Yeah.

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Let's break off at this point, John, for your third record. What shall we have?

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Well, now I've sort of started into m my music, you know, uh as my life and

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I think I for my first record I would like to choose the the the recording of Caruso.

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when he recorded the Aria from La Jouve.

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called Rachel.

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I choose it because

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I think the greatness of Cruzo

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besides his magnificent voice.

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was this fantastic ability to

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um show the people

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Yeah.

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What he was saying and what he was feeling

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was really

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motivated by experiences in his life perhaps or you know, there was real deep real depth in what in what he was feeling.

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And

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Caruzzo made this recording shortly before his death.

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He had been very ill for some time, I'm sure.

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that his own daughter Victoria was very much in his thoughts.

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when he sings here about

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Rachelle, Rachel

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who when he says in the words of this song, that when he picked her up out of the cradle, that he promised God that no harm would come to her.

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And now because of his incapacity,

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She is going to suffer.

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M I think

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It comes through in his scene.

Jon Vickers10:51

He male.

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Uh

Presenter10:58

They are also singing an aria from La Jouve.

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What was your first engagement outside Canada?

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Well, I did go down to the town of Buffalo, city of Buffalo, to do some performances of Handel's Messiah, but I always considered that virtually a Canadian engagement because it's right on the Canadian border.

Jon Vickers11:14

What it?

Presenter11:15

But my really my first American um uh engagement was uh

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I was engaged by the American Operatic Society to sing the part of Floristan in Fidelio of Beethoven when Ingeborg.

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made her North American operatic debut and uh

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I went down and sang

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I think successfully with them because they engaged me immediately for some other performances and I

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Yes. And uh I c I really consider that my first What was the next important thing to happen?

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Well, the next important thing that that that happened was uh that while I was in Fideli well, in New York preparing Fidelio, the man with whom I was working, um he liked m what I did and and unknown to me he brought in all kinds of people.

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Who uh

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I didn't know, but who were very influential in the American musical scene.

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And uh

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In the four weeks I was there I was offered many, many things, including Coven Garden, and Coven Garden was the next thing I accepted.

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You became a member of the Reson Company here. I considered this really my big step, that this was, you know, this was my really big step into the international world.

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Let's break off again for another record. What shall we have?

Speaker 112:29

Another record was

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Well, I think um

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Uh following Caruso, I would like to hear the

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Faust area from Faust.

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Sung by UC Bierling

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I have chosen this recording because

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As much as I love Caruso,

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uh as much as I've admire the voice and the heart,

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I don't think that he ever had the vocal technique.

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Ava UC Beerley.

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Perhaps UC Vierling can be accused, as some people do accuse him, of having been more cold in his singing.

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But I think technically

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Um the ability of this man to sustain a legato line and and the the the way he handled the extremities of his range of voice.

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to me is absolutely exemplary as a tenor, and I in my studies I've always tried

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Two.

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control my sentimental heart, which I love Carooza for,

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and learn a great deal from UC Verling.

Jon Vickers13:41

Solid rhythm of a trusty group

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Uh

Jon Vickers14:10

God a sword.

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You see Björling singing an aria from Faust.

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What role did you make your debut in at Garden Garden? Officially I made my debut in in Un Balan Maskera, the mask ball of Giuseppe Verdi.

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But um unofficially I made my debut in Carmen.

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Um

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I sang Carmen before I sang Balo, but the critics at my request

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Um

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Did not come to the Carmen, they came first to the Ballenmasker. How long were you in the resident company? Eighteen months. Yeah.

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And then you moved into the international scene as a freelance.

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Yes, I was quite I was quite a a brash young man.

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Um

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I was quite determined, because I was about thirty years of age at that time,

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that this was an enormous step in my life.

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And I was not at all convinced of my ability as a singer or as my ability of my ability of anything really, except that I was quite determined that at 30 I should be making taking steps that were permanent.

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because I was married, had two children, and

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And it it was important that if I was going to stay in the business world, that I didn't

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waste waste those important years of the thirties. And so I was impatient.

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Coming to Covent Garden. I'm sure I know that Sir David wanted me to stay three years, and I said, No, 18 months, and if nothing is

Presenter16:06

indicative of the fact that I can go on to have a good international career, then I shall stop now and go back in the business world. Where did you move on to?

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Well, it was was really quite marvelous for me. It was unbelievable because after seven months in the Royal Opera House, I had signed contracts with Vienna, Bayreuth, San Francisco, Chicago, the Metropolitan RCA Victor Decca Recording Company and

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Uh within the eighteen months, La Scala and uh

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All the big houses, yeah. You made your home in London.

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I made my home in London for uh for about six years, I guess, yes.

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Which is your favorite role? Which do you look forward to most?

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I don't think there is a real favorite role.

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Um

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You look forward more to

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Something that is that is idealistic as far as working conditions are concerned. Conductor, colleagues, producer, etc. Do you have an unfavorite role? Well, I have some that I will say are not my favorite roles. I don't think that André Chenier, for instance, or even Radames in Aida, or you know, I don't think even Siegmund, which they say I'm famous for.

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Uh they're not my favorite parts because I don't think they're very

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I don't think they say a great deal.

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in comparison with

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the the the the the social message that can be given by uh Otello and Peter Grimes and

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And um

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Even Pagliacci, you know, which is considered such a handiwork, but oh my, you know, that that touches on

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universal feelings and and can can

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can really give a message to people if they're interested in it.

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Let's have a record number five. What the extra

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Oh

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Now it's hard to lead from what we were talking about, but um

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Because I'm switching here from operatic things.

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Going back to our desert island and thinking about it, I I rather think I'd like to be comforted by a few thoughts now.

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And

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I I am very, very fond of

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Because of my whole life and background of in the church and everything, I would like very much to hear the Sir Hugh Roberton choir singing.

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The twenty third psalm to the tune Crimend.

Jon Vickers18:50

Yes, we are.

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The Glasgow Orpheus Choir, Cremon.

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What's your sixth record?

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My sixth record

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Yes Aim.

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Piano

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Record.

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By the Romanian pianist Dino Lipati.

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And I choose it.

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Because it has

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Very special.

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Remembrances for me.

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When I was a

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Young married man living in a garret

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The people down below had a tape recorder or record player and we didn't have one.

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And

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Every once in a while we'd hear Cheese your joy of man's desiring.

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And it had a very special sort of quality to it, one of...

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spirituality that we felt was

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So int integrally a part of it.

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that my wife and I were compelled many times to stop and just sit on the stairs and listen to it

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Play.

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Afterwards we discovered

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that it was played by a man who

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was really a dying man. He died at thirty three.

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A tragic, tragic end to a brilliant, brilliant career.

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And somehow there must be a f I feel as a a knowledge.

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In this man.

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Half of

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The end of his life as he plays this record.

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GCO Joy of Mammes Deserving, played by Dino Lapati.

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What next?

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The next one is also a piano.

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Disc

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Played by Cyril Smith and Phyllis Sellick.

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of Sheep May Safely Graze.

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The reason I choose this work is because of um

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A really remarkable experience.

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uh a personal experience of the death of my mother.

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And

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Uh people who usually think of the deaths of parents

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Uh sometimes our

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Very saddened by it.

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But the death of my mother for me was a really quite a marvellous experience.

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Certainly it was not a sad experience.

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sad only in that I was saying goodbye.

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But it was a a marvelous is experience because

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Here was a woman who, with complete happiness,

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Complete contentment

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No resentments, no bitterness, no fears, faced her death, and died.

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And

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I feel at thee.

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mood of

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Sheep may safely graze is that?

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That it is

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one of uh an expression of one's complete faith

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In eternity.

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Another Bach piano record, Sheep May Safely Graze, played by Cyril Smith and Phyllis Sellick.

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Let's have your last dragon now.

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Well, my last record is really the summing up of everything that I uh I have said as far as m my faith is concerned.

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And um

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It is um

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It is summed up in in the f final chorale of the box at Matthew Passion.

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Because um

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In in this corral is the whole purpose of

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The whole point of Christianity is summed up in it. Which recording shall we use?

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Well, I would like to h use the recording of the Beaver Recording Company in Canada.

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I think the company is no longer in existence.

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The recording was made by the Toronto Symphony Orchestra.

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with whom I've sung many, many times as a student.

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The conductor is Sir Ernest McMillan, who was the resident conductor of that orchestra at the time, and the Toronto Mendelssohn Choir.

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with whom I was a chorister for many years.

Presenter26:39

If you could take just one of your eight records, if seven got lost in the surf, which would it be?

Presenter26:44

I think it's pretty obvious from my choice. I think it would have to be this this isn't Matthew. The lost one. Yes.

Speaker 126:51

Yeah.

Presenter26:52

and one luxury to take to the island with you.

Presenter26:55

I gave it a lot of thought when you asked me about that before. I think

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I think you will really laugh when I tell you.

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I think I would take a large child's ball.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know a big, pretty child's ball.

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I would take it because when I was a little boy, about four

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Five, somewhere around there.

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It was in the depression, and I was the sixth child.

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I'm sure it was a very limited Christmas. I don't know, but I'm sure it was.

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And

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I know that I was given one of those beautiful balls.

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And

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I bounced it on a nail.

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And it was destroyed.

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and my father thought that I had broken it on purpose.

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And somehow I could not.

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even have the courage to try to persuade him that I hadn't. I just accepted it.

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Now I take it with me because

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I'm still starry-eyed about a child's ball.

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I still

Presenter28:04

Yeah. My children have lots of them.

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And

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I take it along because it reminds me of a whole lot of things.

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Um

Presenter28:18

Carefreeness of a child.

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precious things that sometimes we can destroy.

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without even thinking that we've destroyed'em.

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Because I remember how sick this thing went in my hands.

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And

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Power that we should

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in the simple, beautiful things of life, no matter how sort of ordinary they may seem.

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to us if they are very, very beautiful, that

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We should keep this childlike

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Love of them

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wonder of them

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And

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as an adult.

Presenter29:00

Protect and shield those things because they're rewarding.

Presenter29:05

Right.

Presenter29:06

And thank you, John Vickers, for letting us hear your desert island dissipation. Well, Roy, I hope it hasn't become too serious.

Speaker 129:09

Yeah.

Presenter29:13

But because I'm not really such a serious man, but when I contemplate being on a desert island

Presenter29:18

I somehow have to become serious.

Presenter29:21

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 129:30

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.