Ruthie Henshall

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand eight.

Presenter0:26

My castaway this week is the actress Ruthie Henschel.

Presenter0:29

A West End and Broadway star, she has performed in many of the most successful musical productions of the past twenty years, including Miss Saigonle, Miss Arable, and Cats.

Presenter0:37

In Chicago she played Roxy, a defining role that left reviewers and audiences breathless at witnessing a mega watt talent shine in all its dazzling brilliance.

Presenter0:48

However, off stage her life has often been defined more by shade than light.

Presenter0:53

As a child she endured a volatile home life.

Presenter0:55

that was further scarred by abuse. And as an adult, she suffered mental breakdown. Now she's happily married, with two young daughters. But of the dark days behind her, she says I'd spent so many years entertaining and pretending everything was all right. But no matter where you get to, it's never enough. You're always looking for the next thing.

Presenter1:15

Ruthie Henschel, it sounds as if you were propelled through life from probably quite a young age to perform.

Ruthie Henshall1:22

Yes, I think I was.

Ruthie Henshall1:24

I've always thought of my life as a little bit like being on an express train that I couldn't get off of. It was going so fast that I couldn't see the scenery either. But I had an unbelievable drive since being a child, and when I found dancing it was like somebody had turned the light on in my life, and so I couldn't get enough of it.

Presenter1:42

What's the sensation when you're on stage

Ruthie Henshall1:46

Oh, I always look at the theatre as my church, really. There is.

Ruthie Henshall1:51

There is nothing that gives me that feeling. I am totally passionate about what I do.

Ruthie Henshall1:56

It really fulfils me.

Ruthie Henshall1:59

Does that make it difficult to be off the stage?

Ruthie Henshall2:01

It makes it like a double life.

Ruthie Henshall2:03

I love my home life and I love my children, but

Ruthie Henshall2:07

It's like having a double life. I get on the train and I go into work.

Ruthie Henshall2:11

And

Ruthie Henshall2:13

You have to concentrate on that show.

Ruthie Henshall2:16

for, you know, two and a half hours, whatever it is. And so there's nothing else to think about. And it's like being set free for two and a half hours.

Ruthie Henshall2:25

to be whoever.

Presenter2:27

What about the audience? Because of course what you do is is live performance, often eight shows a week, incredibly demanding, which we might talk about later, but the thing that differentiates it principally from other sorts of performing is that you're right there with them and you can see the whites of their eyes and them yours. How does that feel? Is that an important part of the mix?

Ruthie Henshall2:42

You can see

Ruthie Henshall2:43

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall2:47

Very much so. I've done television and I've done live theatre and of course there is nothing like live theatre because it's a relationship and the more you give, the more they give and the more they give the more you give. There's it's an energy thing. Tell me about your first piece of music. It's Eva Cassidy's Somewhere Over the Rainbow. And why not Judy Garland?

Ruthie Henshall3:08

Well, uh of course Judy Garland is the defining, you know, somewhere over the rainbow, uh her version, but I've never heard a version since that has touched me like this one. Also, it has great meaning for me because every Christmas we used to watch The Wizard of Oz and this song really for me as a child meant an awful lot. It's a song of great hope that there is something better over the rainbow.

Speaker 33:45

The Rainbow

Presenter4:05

Eva Cassidy singing Over the Rainbow and you were saying there, Ruthie Henschel, that that song gave you a sense of hope when you watched it as a child each Christmas, watching The Wizard of Osk. Why did you need a sense of hope?

Ruthie Henshall4:12

Huge Christmas.

Ruthie Henshall4:16

Um, it it was it was a difficult childhood from the point of view that my parents had a very, very volatile relationship. And so we we saw an awful lot of arguing and

Ruthie Henshall4:29

And that was that was hard as a child to to to watch that.

Presenter4:33

You were one you were the youngest of four girls.

Ruthie Henshall4:35

That's right, yes.

Presenter4:35

Yes. So did the girls together sort of did they keep it together? Were you close uh to your sisters?

Ruthie Henshall4:40

it's hard to describe our relationships because we were close, but yet there was also y you know, we all just wanted to get out of the house because it was

Ruthie Henshall4:52

you know, um

Ruthie Henshall4:55

Quite hard there.

Ruthie Henshall4:57

Did you think it was your fault, all the fighting? Oh, I think every child does. My mother says that I used to like to entertain.

Presenter4:57

Do you think

Ruthie Henshall5:05

But I think that's the role I took on because things at home could be difficult. So I was always trying to lighten the atmosphere. And if it looked like something was going to kick off, all right, you know, I'll just

Ruthie Henshall5:17

Make every

Presenter5:18

Everyone has

Ruthie Henshall5:18

Happy.

Presenter5:18

Yeah.

Presenter5:20

I said in the introduction that you also suffered abuse as a child, sexual abuse, and this is something you yourself have spoken about before. I wonder why you've spoken about it publicly.

Ruthie Henshall5:26

Before

Ruthie Henshall5:32

I've always felt that especially now we live in this celebrity culture where everyone is looking at all these celebrities and saying, you know, oh, they've got it all. And w what we're not realizing is that everybody has their stuff. Everybody goes through the roller coaster that is called life.

Ruthie Henshall5:52

And

Ruthie Henshall5:53

I felt very strongly I want to break this myth.

Ruthie Henshall5:57

That you know, you get fame, you get fortune, you get to do an amazing job, that everything is fixed because it isn't fixed.

Ruthie Henshall6:06

And that

Ruthie Henshall6:08

Abuse

Ruthie Henshall6:10

The sexual abuse.

Ruthie Henshall6:12

changed me instantly.

Ruthie Henshall6:14

At four and a half years old when it began, it changed me instantly.

Ruthie Henshall6:19

And I can't explain a lot of things about me and my life.

Ruthie Henshall6:24

without taking that into consideration because

Ruthie Henshall6:28

It instantly made me feel

Ruthie Henshall6:31

Alone?

Ruthie Henshall6:32

It instantly made me feel bad. It instantly made me feel that obviously there wasn't a God.

Ruthie Henshall6:39

Because how would that happen?

Ruthie Henshall6:41

And it has affected every relationship in my life.

Ruthie Henshall6:45

Yeah.

Presenter6:45

At the time that it was happening it was somebody outside of the family but but known to the family.

Ruthie Henshall6:49

Yes. Did you tell your parents? No. No, I didn't because I was um basically um warned.

Ruthie Henshall6:58

Um and I knew that if I told I'd be in trouble.

Presenter7:01

How long was it before you were able to tell anyone?

Ruthie Henshall7:04

I was about thirty.

Ruthie Henshall7:06

Yeah, and I um

Ruthie Henshall7:08

I was in so much pain that I finally went and got some help.

Ruthie Henshall7:13

And uh and of course it all came tumbling out.

Ruthie Henshall7:17

Um

Ruthie Henshall7:17

and to tell my father

Ruthie Henshall7:20

And my mother, of course, but to talk to my father about it and have him.

Ruthie Henshall7:25

Write to this person.

Ruthie Henshall7:27

because he felt he couldn't even go near him because he didn't know what he would do, and to say to him, you know, you cannot come near.

Ruthie Henshall7:36

Any of us any more.

Ruthie Henshall7:38

and to finally be protected by the person who

Ruthie Henshall7:42

Um I wanted to be protected by it, but of course I didn't tell him, so what was he to do?

Presenter7:47

It's taken from For some music, tell me about your second choice.

Ruthie Henshall7:50

My second choice is children will listen from Sondimes Into the Woods.

Ruthie Henshall7:56

And this, for me, says it all, and it's just frightening to me that.

Ruthie Henshall8:04

More people don't don't understand what their behaviour and what their their words do to a child.

Ruthie Henshall8:12

I look at my children and I want so much for them and I w and I don't want them to hurt and I don't you know, I know I can't save them from everything.

Ruthie Henshall8:21

But um I know enough to know that

Ruthie Henshall8:24

then I have a huge impact on their life and I will not take that lightly.

Speaker 38:28

Careful before you say listen to me

Speaker 38:35

Children will listen.

Speaker 38:44

Careful the wish you make, wishes our children have.

Presenter8:50

Barbara Streisand and Children will listen from Sondheim's Into the Woods. You said there, Ruthie Henschel, before that music, that it took you until you were thirty uh to tell anyone about the abuse you'd suffered as a child.

Presenter9:02

You said also that it helped you to understand why you had behaved in the way that you had. Tell me more about that.

Ruthie Henshall9:06

The way that you

Ruthie Henshall9:08

Oh, yes, absolutely. Well, when when you have no self-worth and no self-esteem, um you immediately assume you're bad.

Ruthie Henshall9:17

And um you walk through life with everything reflecting that to you. You know, I was always sort of going out and getting drunk and behaving badly and and um and relationships I found very, very difficult, uh very, very difficult to

Ruthie Henshall9:33

stay in a relationship. I was always running.

Presenter9:36

But what about your achievements in your professional life? Because people were constantly telling you you were good. I mean the reviews were spankingly good. You you've been nominated countless times for awards, and indeed won the biggest awards going in the West End. How could you not know then that you were a person of significant achievement and worth?

Ruthie Henshall9:55

Um, I I never felt it. It never went in. It it didn't really permeate because

Ruthie Henshall10:01

Funnily enough, nothing was ever enough or good enough, which has kept me.

Ruthie Henshall10:08

being the driven person I think that I am.

Presenter10:11

So, at a point now where you understand yourself, but as this uh little girl living in a difficult home environment who had also. Suffered sexual abuse and was keeping it her own dark secret. The thing that brought you joy was to perform.

Ruthie Henshall10:25

Uh

Ruthie Henshall10:26

It was

Ruthie Henshall10:28

It was wonderful.

Ruthie Henshall10:30

It was utterly wonderful. Like I said, the light came on.

Ruthie Henshall10:34

Dancing to me was I mean, I had so much feeling, no technique, but so much feeling. And did your mother send you to dance classes? Was it ballet classes? No, no, she didn't send me. I mean, it really was one of those things that I did on my own.

Presenter10:41

Alec

Speaker 210:42

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall10:46

There was a girl who used to practise ballet in the playground, and um and I was a real tomboy, and I remember saying to her, You know, why do you practise that ballet?'Cause it's it's a bit sissy, really, isn't it? And she said, Well, if you think it's that sissy, go and try it yourself and the gauntlet was down and the door was opened and I just ran in.

Ruthie Henshall11:03

And

Ruthie Henshall11:04

It was extraordinary to find something to channel all these feelings that were going on inside me.

Ruthie Henshall11:13

channel them into something was extraordinary, and I really believe, you know, saved little Ruthie.

Presenter11:23

More in a moment for now your third track.

Ruthie Henshall11:25

My third is For Good from the Broadway cast recording of Wicked. And why?

Presenter11:30

And why?

Ruthie Henshall11:32

There's this saying that people come into your life for a

Ruthie Henshall11:35

A Reason, a Season, or a Life Time.

Ruthie Henshall11:38

And um this is about my sister Noel who recently died.

Ruthie Henshall11:43

And

Ruthie Henshall11:44

She was a huge.

Ruthie Henshall11:47

Influence in my life a huge influence She was nine years older.

Ruthie Henshall11:51

And she was uh such a funny, wonderful woman. And

Ruthie Henshall11:57

She's changed my life in a way that, you know, her life and her death has changed my life.

Speaker 312:06

Who can say if I've been changed for the better?

Speaker 312:14

Cause I knew you.

Speaker 312:21

I have been chain

Speaker 312:26

For good.

Presenter12:29

For good from the original Broadway cast recording of Wicked sung by Christian Chenoweth. So Tomboy Ruthie Found Dance. And and was your talent immediately recognised?

Ruthie Henshall12:36

And uh

Presenter12:39

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall12:39

It was. From the moment that I I started I was, you know, lifted up by the the teachers and because they saw something in me that obviously th that they thought was um you know talent.

Presenter12:53

And you say that people you you believe that people come into your life for a reason. Was there a particular teacher who who said to you, you know, you've got what it takes, little girl?

Ruthie Henshall13:01

Oh, yes. There was a lady at my school. Funnily enough, her name she was a dance teacher and she was called Mrs. Tapp. How appropriate. How appropriate.

Ruthie Henshall13:11

But she was extraordinary because um she literally took me under her wing. She I would be I mean, when I went to school, I was always the clown.

Ruthie Henshall13:20

Because I was trying to make people laugh all the time.

Ruthie Henshall13:23

And I was always getting into trouble. And I mean, I went I went back. Years later the the headmistress asked me to go back and open up the Home Economics department.

Ruthie Henshall13:33

Why home economics?'Cause I was rubbish at cooking. But I went into the staff room and all all the teachers say, Oh, look, it's naughty Ruthie Henschel or Ruth Henschel. Oh, cheeky Ruth Henschel.

Ruthie Henshall13:46

And there there were all these kind of comments coming at me, and I went into the the dance hall and Mrs. Tapp was there.

Ruthie Henshall13:53

And I opened my mouth to speak to her, and I just burst into tears. And I said, Was I really that bad at school? And she said, No, you were just in pain.

Ruthie Henshall14:03

She would be there. I would just be about to get into trouble, and it was like she'd pop out of nowhere and go, Can you help me carry these books, Ruth?

Presenter14:10

And off we'd go. And you were only sixteen when you went to the Lane Theatre Arts School in Epsom. You left home at sixteen. Did you feel that was early?

Ruthie Henshall14:16

He's explained.

Ruthie Henshall14:19

No, I couldn't wait.

Ruthie Henshall14:21

I wanted to get on with um what I was doing.

Ruthie Henshall14:25

I I couldn't wait to get out into the business.

Ruthie Henshall14:28

Yeah.

Presenter14:28

Um, do you think you appeared to the world, you know, as a a teenager, as a sixteen year old, uh, as quite sort of hard-boiled, quite a toughie?

Ruthie Henshall14:35

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall14:36

I think I think I did.

Presenter14:38

And I've read you say that, you know, I was never going to be in the chorus.

Presenter14:43

Ambition was there from the early years.

Ruthie Henshall14:45

Absolutely. And from and from the early years I was always picked out so that obviously people did see something that was you know different.

Ruthie Henshall14:56

You know, I got the jobs, and if I wasn't being noticed enough, I get myself noticed. You know, that that arrogance of youth that you have.

Ruthie Henshall15:05

I knew where I wanted to get. I did not want to be in the chorus.

Ruthie Henshall15:09

And that was cemented to me when I was in Miss Saigon, and it was wonderful to be a part of that World Premiere and and open a show.

Ruthie Henshall15:18

But it r really cemented to me I was not going to be bar girl number three for the rest of my life, you know. I had to be at the front.

Presenter15:24

And Miss Lygon was your big break.

Ruthie Henshall15:26

Um ye yes. Oh, absolutely. I mean, Claude Michel, who of course I'm now doing the show Marguerite for, he said he remembers the first time I went on for Ellen and I came off and he said uh you you came off for your bow and you said

Ruthie Henshall15:40

I have been at the front. I am never going back. And he remembers that vividly. Well, you would. Absolutely.

Ruthie Henshall15:47

And that

Ruthie Henshall15:49

you know, set me off on the right track.

Presenter15:52

Tech number four.

Ruthie Henshall15:53

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall15:54

The next track is The Lord's Prayer from David Fanshaw's African Sanctus, and I danced to this at my school.

Ruthie Henshall16:01

But more than that.

Ruthie Henshall16:04

I think the Lord's Prayer is absolutely beautiful, you know, as much as I wouldn't call myself a religious person.

Ruthie Henshall16:12

I absolutely believe in God.

Ruthie Henshall16:14

I believe that I am being looked after now because I've been led to some amazing people and places.

Speaker 316:25

Oh the love

Speaker 316:29

Not in heaven.

Speaker 316:33

Hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom, come, thy will be thy.

Speaker 316:48

Uh

Presenter16:53

The Lord's Prayer from David Fanshaw's African Sanctus, sung by Anne-Christine Lovegren. I saw you in Chicago when you opened in Chicago all those years ago, and I have to say it was for me one of those moments, and indeed for virtually everyone who reviewed your performance at the time, I have to say, a remarkable moment. It was a moment where one sat in the theatre and felt that somebody's performance was transporting you to another place, and it was so pure and true.

Presenter17:21

You say it's a gift. You must have to work like hell to deliver that sort of performance every night.

Ruthie Henshall17:28

I am tired when I come off a stage.

Ruthie Henshall17:31

I am I do put my heart and soul into it.

Ruthie Henshall17:35

Um the show that I'm doing at the moment, you know, it it's quite harrowing in places and uh

Ruthie Henshall17:42

Your day revolves around that two and a half hours a night, and you've got to find a way to keep your voice in good nick and your body in good nick.

Ruthie Henshall17:49

But I don't know still at the age of forty-one how to pull back. And

Ruthie Henshall17:54

It fascinates me how the the roles that I've played seem to be life imitating art a lot of the time. That it it's it's almost where I am in my life.

Ruthie Henshall18:05

The the shows reflect it.

Ruthie Henshall18:07

And I'm able to bring tha and and heal a part of myself.

Presenter18:12

It's a strange paradox, isn't it, that something that that on the one hand can have a a relatively mixed up, unhealthy beginning can result in you being a real people pleaser and and filling a theatre every night of your life.

Ruthie Henshall18:23

And

Presenter18:25

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall18:25

Yes, and and in the end coming round, which at forty one I have, to being, you know, much more um happy with myself and at peace with myself. You know, I say it's my church, it's also my therapy. I mean, I go on that stage every night.

Ruthie Henshall18:40

And

Ruthie Henshall18:41

I sing a particular song called How Did I Get to Where I Am?

Ruthie Henshall18:45

and I think of my sister every night, um and how she must have been.

Ruthie Henshall18:50

Before she died, um she committed suicide.

Ruthie Henshall18:54

That it allows me to grieve for her.

Ruthie Henshall18:59

So therefore I get to cry genuinely every night for my sister.

Ruthie Henshall19:05

And that is uh

Ruthie Henshall19:08

Must be therapy in some way because I'm getting it out. It's it's not inside anymore and I refuse. You asked me earlier about, you know, why I decide to talk about things and I have talked about my sister as well. I'm fed up with secrets and I'm fed up with how we are ashamed of certain things. You know m my sister committed suicide.

Ruthie Henshall19:33

It's something that nobody talks about in this country.

Ruthie Henshall19:36

But it but it so closely uh follows the fact that she was depressed and depression

Ruthie Henshall19:43

Is rife, but she couldn't reach out for help.

Presenter19:49

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall19:49

Let's take a break.

Presenter19:49

Tell me about your next piece of music, then?

Ruthie Henshall19:52

The next uh piece of music is Footprints in the Sand by Leona Lewis, and it's about a a man who has a dream and his life flashes across the sky and

Ruthie Henshall20:02

And um he's walking along the beach uh and he sees footprints in the sand, but at his lowest points there's only one set of footprints, and at when he's okay there are two sets of p footprints, which are supposed to be Jesus and him walking together.

Ruthie Henshall20:18

And he says, you know, God, why when I was so low?

Ruthie Henshall20:23

Did you leave me because there are only one set of footprints? And he says, It was then that I carried you.

Ruthie Henshall20:29

And

Ruthie Henshall20:30

I feel that there have been times in my life when I have been carried.

Speaker 220:34

Where's that?

Speaker 320:38

Then your heart is filled with sorrow and despair

Speaker 320:46

Okay.

Speaker 220:50

Uh

Speaker 220:51

In a correct

Speaker 220:55

You'll find my footprints here.

Speaker 220:59

The same

Presenter21:03

Leona Lewis and Footprints in the Sand. You said earlier, uh, Ruthie Henschel, that uh

Presenter21:08

In those earlier days of your West End life you you lived a sort of a wild time. Were you a bit of a party girl?

Ruthie Henshall21:13

Are you a bit of a

Ruthie Henshall21:15

Oh, my goodness, yes. Absolutely. I I didn't stop long enough uh to feel. That was my whole thing. And um and alcohol to me was just fantastic because you could check out with that, you know. And I loved partying with people.

Ruthie Henshall21:32

And and I was in the West End and I was earning good money and it was just I couldn't believe my luck. Yeah.

Presenter21:38

And in the early, early days, when you were I think it was in uh when you were in the West End in Cats, you started going out with somebody who at the time liked to be known as Edward Windsor. Yes. Now he's the Earl of Wessex, of course. He's terribly grand now. But when he was Edward Windsor, you went out with him for quite a few years.

Ruthie Henshall21:53

I did, yes. Uh um it was

Ruthie Henshall21:55

Uh on and off, really. I mean, s solidly for a couple of years, but then sort of on and off for sort of five uh in all. We couldn't quite let go. Did he take you to the palace?

Ruthie Henshall22:06

I went there a lot, yes, I did, because he lived there and uh it it always makes me laugh.

Ruthie Henshall22:12

You know, when you sort of say, Oh, yes, I'm going to my boyfriend's tonight. Nobody knew who he was. But that must have been very exciting.

Ruthie Henshall22:21

It was very exciting, but I genuinely fell in love with him.

Presenter22:25

And so I mean the prince and the showgirl, it's a terribly romantic notion. Was he sort of smuggling you in in the back of his car into Buckingham Palace at after your performances?

Ruthie Henshall22:29

Was he so

Ruthie Henshall22:34

Not in the back of my car, but I wo I you know, I was definitely getting smuggled in there in my own car, but um it didn't make me nervous who he was.

Presenter22:44

was

Presenter22:45

And so what was dinner?

Presenter22:48

With the Queen at Buckingham Palace, like? I mean, presumably, if you went out with them for all these years, that was something you maybe quite regularly did.

Ruthie Henshall22:51

That was

Ruthie Henshall22:54

I did. You know, I met them all, and um what I found was a lovely family, and you're gonna s it's gonna sound totally bizarre, but when they're behind closed doors, they're a family.

Ruthie Henshall23:06

And they have cookouts like a family and they talk like a family.

Presenter23:11

When you say they had cuckats, and you're talking about barbecues and things, they would so you'd see the queen sort of turning the sausages on the barbie. I never saw the queen turning the sausages, but I did see I did see Charles.

Presenter23:23

Did you ever think at one point you might become part of that family?

Ruthie Henshall23:26

No. I think I had hopes uh that we could walk on in our relationship.

Ruthie Henshall23:33

But, um, really and truthfully, I think I was very aware.

Ruthie Henshall23:38

that I couldn't I wouldn't be able to do what I do for a living if I'd have stayed with him. Because if you think about it, I would be in the theater eight shows a week. They'd have to check out the theater every night, check everyone's bags. It would be just impossible. And there is nothing at that stage that was more important than what I what I did.

Ruthie Henshall24:03

And was that what broke you?

Presenter24:03

Got then in the end.

Ruthie Henshall24:04

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall24:06

Yeah it was.

Presenter24:07

And as I said in the introduction, you're now very happily married to the singer Tim Howard. He is in the business too.

Ruthie Henshall24:10

Okay, this

Ruthie Henshall24:11

Yeah.

Speaker 324:11

Uh

Ruthie Henshall24:13

Yes, he is. I met him doing Peggy Sue Got Married and he blew me away.

Ruthie Henshall24:21

He has a voice that, you know, I don't know how he does it. It's from God, it really is. Because on one hand, he's part of a rock group called Van Tramp, but he's from musical theatre. And so he's able to turn his voice to anything. And I've always said this, I mean, it sounds a bit crass probably, but when I met him, my ovaries were screaming. I knew he was the father of my children.

Presenter24:46

Let's hear the voice of the father of your children.

Speaker 324:49

Knew he would soon have to fly

Speaker 324:54

They had something.

Speaker 324:59

They were not afraid.

Speaker 325:06

Knew as we told her goodbye.

Speaker 325:11

There was one thing.

Speaker 325:15

No one could take away

Presenter25:18

Van Tramp and something, and the lead singer, as you were saying to him, our your husband. And when you met him you said your ovaries were screaming. Is it true that you told him he was going to be the father of your children?

Ruthie Henshall25:29

Yes.

Presenter25:30

I did, how soon?

Ruthie Henshall25:31

Pam

Ruthie Henshall25:32

I'd known him about.

Ruthie Henshall25:34

Probably about six weeks.

Ruthie Henshall25:36

And we weren't even dating.

Ruthie Henshall25:39

He didn't say no.

Presenter25:40

It all adds to the image. And and and we often read this about you, that you have, you know, this sort of exorcet like determination to get to where you want to be. I wonder why you you haven't pursued a a career. You say you've done some television, but people much more know you from your stage work, obviously. Why you haven't pursued uh a life in in film?

Presenter26:02

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall26:02

Well, most of it had to do with the fact that I I I have worked so continually in the theatre and I love it with a passion that I I've never really sort of gone that way. I've been up for a couple of films um when I was in the States.

Ruthie Henshall26:19

I mean, I'd l of course I would love to do it, but I think.

Ruthie Henshall26:24

This is what I do.

Ruthie Henshall26:26

And other people do that film thing better. That's what they do. This is what I do.

Presenter26:32

What about that time on Broadway? Uh you described it in retrospect as running away. What happened when you went to Broadway? I mean, obviously you had hit shows and and professionally things went well, but what happened personally?

Ruthie Henshall26:41

And I'm pressing.

Ruthie Henshall26:45

I was I really hit the wall. That was when um

Ruthie Henshall26:50

I had to deal with the sexual abuse. I had to deal with what it had done to me because I was.

Ruthie Henshall26:57

Very, very unhappy. I kind of fell apart.

Ruthie Henshall27:00

I remember vividly.

Ruthie Henshall27:02

Uh I was doing Velma in Chicago.

Ruthie Henshall27:05

And off stage, just before I went on, I was thinking about how I could kill myself. Where would I get pills from?

Ruthie Henshall27:13

You know, I'd I'd I'd need to do sleeping tablets because, you know, and there wa this was what was going on in my mind, and then the music started and I shot onto stage. There I was in character doing a a comedy number and

Ruthie Henshall27:26

the the detachment that I was able to to do

Ruthie Henshall27:29

Um was quite shocking, really.

Ruthie Henshall27:32

And uh and finally I reached out for help.

Ruthie Henshall27:35

because I'd got to a stage where I wasn't even going out of my apartment very much. And I lost so much weight. I d I just was bec becoming a complete recluse.

Ruthie Henshall27:46

I didn't want to be even with people any more. It was crazy and but yet I'd go into the theatre and Yeah, how are you? I put on that mask and there I was.

Presenter27:55

And what about I mean, you said earlier, you know, life is is hard. There are ups and downs, and and every day, in some way, at some point, whether it's our memories or something new that happens to us, the pain of day to day living is is is very present.

Ruthie Henshall28:00

Senator R.

Ruthie Henshall28:09

It well, it is. I mean, um

Ruthie Henshall28:11

I'm much more comfortable in my own skin at 41 years old. You know, I'm really finding happiness and joy and a sense of peace.

Ruthie Henshall28:20

Um it's been a journey to get there, and I'm very, very proud to say that I will take the help now.

Presenter28:28

And you've you've spoken throughout our conversation about your sister Noel who committed suicide, and that very much relates to the next piece of music. She she wasn't able to find that place that is not about a day to day pain, that is about finding

Ruthie Henshall28:36

Yeah.

Presenter28:42

The joy and all the little things. Tell me about that.

Ruthie Henshall28:44

Well, that's it, really. You know, my sister Noel

Ruthie Henshall28:48

we were very similar, which is why um

Ruthie Henshall28:52

Why it hurts so much to

Ruthie Henshall28:55

to have her not here because

Ruthie Henshall28:57

We were so similar. We were the entertainers, we were the ones who made people laugh and we sort of buoyed up the the the atmosphere.

Ruthie Henshall29:05

And uh

Ruthie Henshall29:07

I I fell apart and I reached out for help and she was falling apart and she couldn't she really couldn't do that.

Ruthie Henshall29:16

And I miss her every single day. Um she made the decision, and that's what she wanted to do, and I'm trying to respect that.

Ruthie Henshall29:26

Because I wouldn't want her to be here and in pain.

Ruthie Henshall29:29

But the the hard thing for me to accept is that I know there's a way out of the pain.

Ruthie Henshall29:34

But um the depression took her down so so far that she couldn't even see it anymore.

Speaker 329:45

I stand outside this woman's world.

Speaker 329:50

This one is wrong.

Speaker 329:54

Ooh, it's hot on the map.

Speaker 329:57

Now his part is over.

Speaker 330:01

No stops for cross

Speaker 330:05

Of the far

Presenter30:10

Kate Bush and this woman's work. And that was played with the Henschel at your sister Noel's Memorial. Mhm. Yes, it was. And so life for you now is is a lot of the time it's family life. You live on the Essex Suffolk border. You've got two little girls, Lily and Dolly. You're married to the man who made your ovaries scream.

Presenter30:29

You described earlier on, and I'm interested to explore that a little more, that that it's a schizophrenic existence to a degree, that you're starring in the West End now, getting rave reviews and yet you're sort of scraping the porridge off the floor and emptying the bins the rest of the time at home with the kids. Yeah, it keeps you down to earth, doesn't it?

Ruthie Henshall30:43

And take the bin.

Ruthie Henshall30:47

Yeah.

Presenter30:47

Yeah.

Ruthie Henshall30:48

Oh, absolutely. Um th they are my priority, they are my life.

Ruthie Henshall30:53

And it's a different kind of light and joy.

Ruthie Henshall30:57

And it's also any mother will say as well it's full on and it's hard work at times, and it's tiring.

Ruthie Henshall31:04

Because it's constant. And any budding talent in the family, if you've got a little belly dancer or a little singer.

Ruthie Henshall31:11

Dolly came out of the womb dancing. I have never seen anything like it.

Ruthie Henshall31:16

Dolly, if she does not go on the stage and dance, I w I well, then I my judgment's very poor. But would that fill you with joy?

Presenter31:24

Boy or horror?

Ruthie Henshall31:26

Joy.

Ruthie Henshall31:27

I would never push her into anything she didn't want to do, but if that ends up being and, Lily, if that ends up being their passion

Ruthie Henshall31:34

I will embrace it. Tell me about your final choice, then.

Ruthie Henshall31:38

My last choice is Faith Hill and There's a Better Place. And I think this actually kind of comes full circle with Eva Castidi, my first one over the rainbow, because it's about that better place. I'm getting to a place in my life where this is becoming a better place.

Speaker 331:59

Lives are scattered.

Speaker 332:03

Innocence isn't lost, and hopefully shattered The old are forgotten The children are forsaken

Speaker 332:15

In this world we're living in, is there anything sacred? There's a better place where I'll find

Presenter32:27

FAITH HILL AND THERE WILL COME A DAY. So, Ruthie, I'm going to give you on this island to take with you the complete works of Shakespeare and the Bible. You're allowed to take another book. What's it going to be?

Ruthie Henshall32:38

The Selfish Giant by Oscar Wilde

Ruthie Henshall32:40

It's actually a children's book, but I can't read it to my children actually without getting a lump in my throat.

Ruthie Henshall32:46

But I find it beautiful.

Ruthie Henshall32:49

What will your luxury be? A jar of Hellman's mayonnaise.

Presenter32:54

For the fish, you can

Ruthie Henshall32:55

But the fish

Presenter32:55

For the side

Ruthie Henshall32:56

Salad but

Presenter32:56

Ha ha.

Ruthie Henshall32:57

Big

Presenter32:57

Very

Ruthie Henshall32:57

Including

Presenter32:58

You can have that then. And if you were to run to save one of these disks from the incoming tide, which one would it be?

Ruthie Henshall33:05

It would be Over the Rainbow, Eva Cassidy, because um that really sums up my life. I've always had so much hope and I want to get the most and the best out of life and all the the richness and the learning that there is and I believe there is a a wonderful place over the rainbow and I'm sort of almost over it.

Ruthie Henshall33:29

Yeah.

Presenter33:30

Ruthie Henschel, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Ruthie Henshall33:33

Thank you for having me.

Presenter33:41

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.