John Stefanidis

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Presenter0:08

The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand eight.

Presenter0:27

My castaway this week is one of the world's leading interior designers, John Stephanidius. Described as brilliant and inimitable, his work has blazed a trail since the late nineteen sixties, with an international spread. His commissions include everything from ski lodges in Aspen and palaces in Saudi Arabia to suites at Claridge's and the headquarters of the Bank of England.

Presenter0:49

His clients prize his eye, originality, and design wit. He says his skill is in not just looking, but seeing. Brought up among the teeming, richly scented streets and bone-dry heat of Egypt, he became enraptured with architecture, artifacts, and the transformative power of light. That very cosmopolitan childhood that you had, how much of an influence has it had in the way you design?

John Stefanidis1:13

I think it gives you a much wider outlook and it makes you comfortable in different cultures. And also we're never quite conscious of when things kick in, but they're there. It's developing the eye.

Presenter1:28

Let's talk about the eye. I mean, it's a difficult thing to define. You know, people obviously employ you because of your remarkable eye. That's what they say. This man has an eye. First of all,

John Stefanidis1:30

It's that

John Stefanidis1:34

Yeah, it's

John Stefanidis1:37

This is the

Presenter1:39

What is it?

John Stefanidis1:41

Well, I think there's a certainty of how something should look, you see. So given the choice, you then make the right choice.

Presenter1:49

How do you know that your choice is the right choice? I mean, everybody. You know, you might walk into a home that you think has revolting taste, and yet the person who's arranged it that way thinks this is the way it should be. They they might think they have an eye.

John Stefanidis2:00

Well, there is that thing, you know, the John Betchman ghastly good taste, that's more offensive.

John Stefanidis2:07

Good taste. Ghastly good taste, you know, when it's completely predictable. It's a sort of received opinion. If you have bad taste but you it has spirit, if it has energy, if it has reflects your personality, it doesn't matter about good taste. Their surroundings are their surroundings and they must be comfortable in their surroundings.

Presenter2:27

And are you able to define your own style? I mean, I listed there this huge breadth of design projects that you've undertaken.

John Stefanidis2:35

It's difficult because other people see it and I don't see that it's.

John Stefanidis2:40

typical in any way because I pride myself on being very versatile.

Presenter2:46

I I've read your style described by somebody, I think a friend of yours, as splendid unobtrusiveness.

John Stefanidis2:49

Yeah.

Presenter2:52

Which is a sort of oxymoron, isn't it? The eye. Yes. Yes. What do you think of that description? Oh, I think it's quite good.

John Stefanidis2:54

The Indians.

Presenter2:57

I suppose that means walking into a room and it not looking as though every aspect of it has been over-designed.

John Stefanidis2:57

I thought

John Stefanidis3:04

Yeah. Absolutely right.

Presenter3:05

Tell me

John Stefanidis3:06

Yeah.

Presenter3:06

Uh Press piece of music.

John Stefanidis3:07

Tip

Presenter3:07

What have you chosen?

John Stefanidis3:07

Well it's from Verdis Requiem.

Presenter3:10

And why have you chosen this?

John Stefanidis3:12

Cause of the hereafter which you need to contemplate if you're on a desert island.

Presenter4:16

The Die Sir from Verdi's Requiem, sung by the Vienna singers with the Berlin Philharmonic conducted by Herbert von Kerrigan.

Presenter4:23

So, John Stephanidas, you as I mentioned, you were born in Egypt. It was Alexandria. Both your parents, though, were Greek. What sort of people were they? Were they different types of people?

John Stefanidis4:32

In character.

Presenter4:33

Yeah.

John Stefanidis4:33

Yeah, it's very different.

Presenter4:34

What were they like? What was your father?

John Stefanidis4:36

He was a

John Stefanidis4:40

Bon viveur liked his food and drink.

Presenter4:43

And

John Stefanidis4:43

Yeah.

John Stefanidis4:44

He was fun.

Presenter4:45

And your mother.

John Stefanidis4:46

My mother was very good looking, but also very good at food, cooking, embroidery, which has been a sort of legacy because I have so many things done by her.

John Stefanidis4:59

And to this day I find it very tranquil if somebody is embroidering in my presence.

Presenter5:04

Because you remember do you remember her doing that? Yes.

John Stefanidis5:06

Yes, she did all her life.

Presenter5:09

And your parents had come from within the Greek community, both quite different backgrounds. Your m your mother and did she in fact convert?

John Stefanidis5:15

Well she was a Sephardic Jewess who converted in order to marry my father, who was Greek Orthodox. In those days Alexandra was very cosmopolitan, and w it was taken for granted that people were of different backgrounds, different nationalities, and there was more intermarriage than would almost be possible to day.

Presenter5:34

You're using the word cosmopolitan. It sounds to somebody like me, not just cosmopolitan, but

Presenter5:40

Exotic, really. I mean, I w two of the most interesting facts for me from your childhood is that you were trilingual from a very young age.

John Stefanidis5:46

Yeah, and they

Presenter5:46

And that you kept pet gazelles. It wasn't it doesn't sound like a typical childhood.

John Stefanidis5:51

No, no, it wasn't. I didn't speak English until I was five. In my school in Cairo the rule was to speak English,'cause otherwise it would have been the Tower of Babel.

John Stefanidis6:03

And racism was completely alien to us because people were of such different backgrounds.

Presenter6:11

From the age of around about eight, you lived with your aunt and uncle, who were brother and sister, is that right?

John Stefanidis6:19

Egypt to go to school.

John Stefanidis6:22

I think'cause I was trouble.

Presenter6:23

And you're f you

John Stefanidis6:24

Really? In what sense? Um, I don't know. I think that there was, you know, I had a lot of energy.

Presenter6:30

Your father was working in Eritrea, wasn't he?

John Stefanidis6:32

My father went to Eritrea in the war, just after the Abyssinian campaign, and we lived in Asmara, which is an exceptional town built by the Italians as a show off fascist colony.

Presenter6:46

And tell me then about this young life. How much did you see your parents from the age of eight onwards?

John Stefanidis6:52

Not very much, but we we would go on holiday together, or they would come and see me. It was all quite a long way away then,'cause when we first went we'd go in a seaplane.

John Stefanidis7:04

That

John Stefanidis7:05

Landed on the Nile in Khartoum, spend the night and then go in a Dakota to Asmara.

John Stefanidis7:11

That has nice memories because the hotel was on the Nile and next to it was the zoo.

Presenter7:16

That must have been, I'm imagining, a big deal then, to go on these holidays with your parents if you had been separated from them for months at a time.

John Stefanidis7:23

It was very nice to see them, but I had extremely affectionate uncle and aunt.

John Stefanidis7:29

And I'm very grateful to have been brought up by them because they were cultivated. And whereas I wanted to go to

John Stefanidis7:36

The movies. I was dragged to the Cairo Museum by my uncle. Tell me about your next piece of music. Um Khalsum.

John Stefanidis7:44

is and was a legend in Egypt. It's said that four million people went to her funeral. And that's the sort of music is something that that reminds me of my childhood'cause it was in the background. It's very nostalgic.

Speaker 37:59

They all made away.

Speaker 28:05

Uh

Speaker 38:05

Oh

Speaker 28:10

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

Presenter8:29

Um Khal Thumb singing part of Amal Hayati. So you were around about the age of 17 when you came to the UK for the first time.

John Stefanidis8:35

So seven yes, seven years. You came to the UK for the first time. Well, I know, not for the first time. I'd been on a visit.

John Stefanidis8:42

I must have been s fifteen or sixteen.

John Stefanidis8:45

Can you remember your first visit? Yeah, indeed I can. I arrived on a PO ship called Strathmoor, which.

John Stefanidis8:53

Doctor Tilbury then got into a train.

John Stefanidis8:58

and then a taxi, and there I was in London.

John Stefanidis9:02

And in that first visit

John Stefanidis9:05

I think I went to twelve plays in ten days.

John Stefanidis9:08

So I was thirsty for what London had to offer.

Presenter9:12

And when you came back then, when you were seventeen, you were going to cram for your Oxbridge exams?

John Stefanidis9:16

Yes.

Presenter9:18

Not many fragrant spices, not much heat, not much beautiful light.

John Stefanidis9:21

Much beautiful light. Well, when I went for my entry exam, you were given a room in college, and the walls were dripping wet and damp on the staircase, and there was no heating, and I prayed I wouldn't get in. But you did. But I did. I was obedient to my destiny.

Speaker 29:38

I was

John Stefanidis9:41

And then when my parents took me there first term.

John Stefanidis9:45

We went up to my rooms, which were wonderful because they overlooked the Radcliffe camera and all sols, so it was a wonderful view, and wonderful architecture. Two little rooms, one electric bar fire, and my father said, You don't have to stay if you don't want to.

Presenter10:01

Which is quite something for him to say, given that, as you say, you were obedient to your destiny. I mean, there were expectations.

John Stefanidis10:06

I think he was horrified by the the conditions.

Presenter10:09

And were you horrified?

John Stefanidis10:11

I was thrilled.

Presenter10:12

Yeah.

John Stefanidis10:12

Because I was thrilled by everything to do with Oxford. And it was a a new world that opened up. It was a revelation of of what life was about. And also to meet people of like mind, to go to the movies and find everybody laughs at the same place. And so that was great fun.

Presenter10:30

And you say that the British have a great gift for friendship, greater than other Europeans. So was this the point at which you you realized that?

John Stefanidis10:34

The PM

John Stefanidis10:37

No, I think that's a conclusion I came to later. And what do you mean by that? Well, I think that they're very deep, and friendship counts for a lot, even though the family might count. It's not predominant in the same way that it might be in Italy.

Presenter10:52

We'll talk about your journey on. It was to Italy next. We'll talk about that in a moment. But for now, tell me about your third choice.

John Stefanidis10:54

Yeah.

John Stefanidis10:58

I think that Maria Carlas was remarkable because of her determination to excel. She was so wholehearted in her love of music, and seeing her in Tosca at Covent Garden was something extraordinary.

Speaker 311:46

Come for the day.

Presenter12:07

Maria Callas singing the Aria Vesadate from Puccini's Tosca with the orchestra of La Scala Milan. So you hinted at Italy you were working for an advertising agency.

John Stefanidis12:16

I worked for an advertising which was called CPV, Coleman, Princess and Vali, and it was the Saatchi of its day. And what were you doing for them? And I was really a trainee account executive.

John Stefanidis12:29

And so having been to Oxford where you're on top of the world and the world is at your feet, you're suddenly it's all nitty-gritty. But it taught me to work.

Presenter12:38

I mentioned in the introduction that you said that you not only look, but you see, and you credit your time in Italy with helping you to do that. Why?

John Stefanidis12:46

Well, it was invaluable because I think that you saw the best.

Presenter12:46

What

John Stefanidis12:50

Of what Italy has to offer, so.

John Stefanidis12:53

This wonderful Roman Baroque unit has such a huge vitality and it's been such an influence all over the world.

Presenter13:00

And it was was it around about 1961 that you met the artist Teddy Millington Drake? Where did you meet him?

John Stefanidis13:08

One Yeah.

Presenter13:09

Annette, can you remember?

John Stefanidis13:10

I had heard of him at Oxford.

John Stefanidis13:13

And I asked a friend of his whether he was nice, and they said I wouldn't say nice.

John Stefanidis13:21

But in fact he was very charming and an artist and I would say that he helped open my eyes.

John Stefanidis13:29

In what way? Well, for contemporary art, for one.

John Stefanidis13:33

and then participating in in the birth of sort of pop art, which I did in a strange way, because it was very close to the friends I had, and if I went to New York th there it would be, and then there it was in Venice being shown, and so on. So all of that was very formative.

Presenter13:52

And you went on to travel together, you and Teddy Millington Drake. Where did you travel?

John Stefanidis13:55

Well, he was a great traveler and also a watercolorist, and he would travel for months of the year.

John Stefanidis14:04

And where did you first go? The most memorable journey was India.

John Stefanidis14:08

Nothing had prepared me for India.

John Stefanidis14:10

Despite the streets of Cairo and

John Stefanidis14:13

the colour walking into the Middle Ages and the fact that the gods and their deities are actually living part of people's lives. For now, tell me about your next piece of music.

John Stefanidis14:25

Donella Vanoni was an actress who played Brecht, and then became a sort of national institution really. So she's the sort of um coutume of of Italy.

John Stefanidis14:36

And it always reminds me of my youth and the fact that I wasn't tremendously happy in Milan. It has a very unforgiving climate. It's a little door as a city compared to other Italian cities. And I was happy to leave it when I left it. But she reminds me of everything that those days had to give.

Speaker 315:01

Tupermasa una stele tupermasai.

Speaker 315:09

Sole chalot tu per merse toutu quant.

Speaker 315:15

Tutuquan to your boy, your boy Sansafini.

Speaker 315:23

Tus unatimos.

Presenter15:30

Censafine, sung by Ornella Vanoni. So, John Stephanie did in the sixties you were part of this I mean, an extraordinary set.

Presenter15:39

Freya Stark, the travel writer, we've already heard about the artist Millington Drake.

John Stefanidis15:40

Travel writer we've already

John Stefanidis15:43

Yes. Peggy Guggenheim. Yes. Well, she lived in Venice and she had these shih tzu dogs that would follow her around, and she gave me one.

John Stefanidis15:52

which I carried.

John Stefanidis15:54

terrified of dropping it across the c canal.

Presenter15:58

I mean, I'm imagining a very, very colourful, high life, lived in great style.

Presenter16:04

Parties, lots of dressing up, lots of laughter.

John Stefanidis16:08

Well, I think the dressing up really d happened in England'cause it was the sixties and people were in velvet and satin and

John Stefanidis16:15

The appeal of coming back to live in England was partly that it was there was so much.

John Stefanidis16:20

happening. Italy was still much more conservative.

Presenter16:23

Right. Because I I read that you had said there was not, speaking of Italy, there was not a garden or a villa where we had not eaten, or at least swarmed through.

John Stefanidis16:32

Well, that was part of the curiosity aroused about uh architecture, and also it's what we we seem to do. We just to l look at all these wonderful examples of architecture.

Presenter16:43

And the villas, uh, were these the villas of people that you knew?

John Stefanidis16:46

Well, sometimes there were villas of people that I knew or that Teddy Miff and Drake knew or it it was taken for granted that you would go in a group and have lunch.

Presenter16:55

Uh

John Stefanidis16:55

So there was a time there.

Presenter16:56

And when you decided that advertising wasn't really for you, what was the final nail in the coffin?

John Stefanidis17:02

I thought it was repetitive.

John Stefanidis17:04

I needed to get away from the Milanese climate.

Presenter17:09

And did you know, then, that it was design?

John Stefanidis17:12

Yeah.

Presenter17:13

I think I

John Stefanidis17:14

I by then had the confidence. What has given you that confidence? I think looking and reading and sharing that interest with the friends that I had at the time.

Presenter17:25

Tell me about your next piece of music, then.

John Stefanidis17:27

Well, on the desert island one is going to indulge in quite a lot of nostalgia, and I am going to think about going to Salzburg, which I have been going to for very many years.

John Stefanidis17:42

and where Richard Strauss was a revelation.

Presenter18:45

The orchestral introduction to Ariadne Auf Naxos by Richard Strauss, played by the Leipzig Gevanterhaus Orchestra, conducted by Kurt Masseur. And so you took a trip to the Greek Islands? I Yeah.

John Stefanidis18:57

Took a trip to the Greek islands with an Italian friend of mine.

John Stefanidis19:04

on somebody's beautiful sailing yacht.

John Stefanidis19:08

And we were so bored we sent ourselves a telegram.

John Stefanidis19:14

And then went on the ferries, which in those days were sort of uh women being sick and chickens and so on.

Presenter19:20

You say you sent yourself a telegram. That was literally must-come soon emergency at home sort of thing, right?

John Stefanidis19:24

Oh, absolutely. And we also sent a telegram to my friend Teddy, and we all three went to Mykonos happily and started having a really nice time.

John Stefanidis19:35

We ended up on Patmos, living chez la Biton in in Romes. It was the middle of August, and there was nobody on the island not from Athens, not from anywhere. Too hot? No, just remote and poor.

John Stefanidis19:52

All the men.

John Stefanidis19:54

In the merchant navy.

John Stefanidis19:56

to make money to send home. The island is where Saint John wrote Revelation.

John Stefanidis20:02

And it has a very

John Stefanidis20:04

spiritual feel about it. It's also immensely beautiful. But for the first few years that I went it was very surreal'cause it was so empty.

Presenter20:16

And as you've described it, given the the relative poverty of the island, it wouldn't seem to me to be the most obvious place to start doing up and developing.

John Stefanidis20:24

Beautiful little homes, which was what you did. No, but the reason that happened is that it was such a beautiful place and I felt that my friends should buy houses and they were very inexpensive. And so that's how it started. That a friend from Oxford and then another friend from Oxford and so on. I did about ten houses on Patmos. Later I built a house for Axel Springer, the the publisher. It was virtually Carte Blanche. I mean he'd bought the land and that was a sort of wonderful experience. But he was a man of vision because he built that a great skyscraper as his headquarters of his publishing empire right by the Berlin Wall, convinced that the Berlin Wall would come down.

John Stefanidis21:05

And this was a good decade after he died the Berlin Wall came down. So he was rather inspirational. And you say that he he had this plot. What was his instruction to you? Well, it's happened two or three times. He told me the size that he wanted for his living room and how many bedrooms he wanted, and the rest he left to me. We had one meeting where I showed him my plans, and the next time he came to Partmos, the house was there.

Presenter21:32

Yeah.

John Stefanidis21:32

But people

Presenter21:32

You describe, who say this is the plot of land or this is the building.

Presenter21:37

I'll collect the keys when the flowers are in the vases. And don't you feel like they're sort of living in your house?

John Stefanidis21:40

Mm-hmm.

John Stefanidis21:44

No, because that's my gift is that I interpret. And also I've assessed what the person is like and what they like. That's part of what I do.

Presenter21:55

So you're part designer, part analyst.

John Stefanidis21:58

Uh a lot of that.

Presenter21:59

A

Presenter22:01

Let's take a break for some music. Tell me about your next piece of music.

John Stefanidis22:04

Ian Bostridge is a tall, lanky fellow.

John Stefanidis22:08

who I think was an academic who started to sing, and I got to know about him early on in his career.

John Stefanidis22:15

Although I've never met him, I had a great feeling of pride when I saw him in Salzburg on the stage. And he has a very moving voice. And whereas I'm not given to being a a fan, I am a a little bit of a fan of his, and when that year that he was singing, I saw him in a in a cafe.

John Stefanidis22:36

Behind glass, so he was inside, I was in the street, and I was so excited that I went to look and knock my

John Stefanidis22:44

No's really hard. Wish

John Stefanidis22:48

Which rather surprised on the glass.

Presenter22:49

On the glam

Speaker 322:51

O heart echoed in thee.

Speaker 323:04

For me, should fear some street.

Speaker 323:17

Was to might have deep and soul

Speaker 323:28

Cost me shine a bishop.

Presenter23:45

Ian Bostridge singing Schubert's Andy Musik. So you decided then, let's take a little trip back into your career path. You decided to start a company proper in London towards the end of the sixties, around about nineteen sixty seven.

John Stefanidis23:59

The

Presenter24:00

And who were your customers? Who were your clients in those first few years?

John Stefanidis24:03

That's getting things away.

Presenter24:06

Which you obviously don't like doing. I mean what sort of thing

John Stefanidis24:08

I tell you what happened is that Christopher Blackwell, who started Island Records, I did a studio for him and then later I did his offices. So that was one of my first commissions. And then the other was a very frivolous thing, which was a a decoration for a a ball.

Presenter24:25

Before we went into the last piece of music, I said it's then part designer, part analyst. When you sat down then, and when you sit down now.

John Stefanidis24:30

Yeah.

Presenter24:33

With clients, what clues are you looking for as to what kind of life they want to lead? I mean, is it

John Stefanidis24:38

I had to ask them some questions, and then I had to come to conclusions as to what they want.

Presenter24:39

Yeah.

Presenter24:45

But sometimes the verbal clues that people give or the the versions of themselves they want the world to see are not who they really are. How how do you work it out?

John Stefanidis24:53

How do you

John Stefanidis24:54

Well, you can tell an awful lot by what people were. And also, you know, w w where they've lived their lives and what the influences might have been or not been. All that counts.

Presenter25:06

Do you feel that people are often buying good taste that they can't actually work out for themselves?

John Stefanidis25:11

I think it's just expertise.

John Stefanidis25:13

Now you are going to the dentist.

Presenter25:16

What do you mean, going to the dentist?

John Stefanidis25:18

Well, you know, you have to go to the dentist if there's something wrong with your mouth, or if you want to smile nicely, or whatever you go to the dentist for. So your house is your smile.

Presenter25:29

But then of course the best sort of dentistry is not those great white Hollywood veneers, is it? The best sort of dentistry is the dentistry you don't see, certainly cosmetically. It's when you you don't know that somebody had to wear a brace all summer.

John Stefanidis25:34

To

John Stefanidis25:37

Okay, it's one.

John Stefanidis25:38

You don't know that somebody had to wear a brace or somewhere.

Presenter25:45

And will you give your advice, if people seek it, on literally every aspect of the home? I mean, will you choose somebody's teaspoons, for example?

John Stefanidis25:53

Well you do that if you're doing commercial work.

John Stefanidis25:56

Even th if you're doing a a show flat or something, that's really quite fun, of course, but otherwise it's it tends to be more personal.

Presenter26:02

So people will say, My great-aunt left me this silver, it's been sitting in the attic, can you incorporate it into my.

John Stefanidis26:08

Well it's n the silver wouldn't be difficult. It's the Kamo to which I might

Presenter26:08

You well as

Presenter26:13

Proved to be a problem.

John Stefanidis26:15

Oh f

Presenter26:17

And is that something that you've actually had to uh accommodate?

John Stefanidis26:20

Yes, but yes, but that also can be quite nice because it it means something to the person, so you accommodate it.

Presenter26:27

What about deadlines?

John Stefanidis26:29

I love deadlines. My favourite expression is the American the drop dead date.

John Stefanidis26:36

It's very, very important because it's a tiresome process, anything to do with building. And also there's one of the things that distinguishes you from other people who do the same thing is that you you're efficient and that you deliver.

Presenter26:50

Yeah.

John Stefanidis26:50

Yeah.

Presenter26:51

It's difficult on radio, of course, to capture the intricacy of the work if people don't know it. But I'm thinking now, when when you just mentioned that, about a certain piece of work you did of apparently it looks like lace on a bedroom

John Stefanidis26:55

No, it doesn't.

John Stefanidis26:58

Yeah.

John Stefanidis27:01

It's on a bedroom wall.

Presenter27:03

Yeah. And that was painted.

John Stefanidis27:03

And that was painted.

Presenter27:05

How long did that take?

John Stefanidis27:07

That would have taken

John Stefanidis27:10

Two to three weeks maybe.

Presenter27:12

of how many people painting, of one person.

John Stefanidis27:14

I can't remember how many that was, but I would have thought two or three.

Presenter27:18

Now why? This is a very personal question.

John Stefanidis27:20

Question

Presenter27:20

Why wouldn't you just buy the lace and put it up?

John Stefanidis27:24

First of all it would come off the wall.

John Stefanidis27:26

Secondly, if you bought that amount of lace, it would be exorbitant. And

John Stefanidis27:33

Uh to to trick the eye or amuse the eye is more

John Stefanidis27:39

Stimulating.

Presenter27:39

Stimulating.

Presenter27:41

I've got you. Tell me about your next piece of music then.

John Stefanidis27:44

I love brahms.

John Stefanidis27:45

And I'm hoping I'm going to get a musicophilia when I get onto this island.

Presenter27:51

This is to be able to create pieces of music in your head and remember.

Presenter28:00

Given that I've limited you to eight.

John Stefanidis28:01

So yes.

Presenter28:02

Uh

Presenter28:55

Part of the final movement of Brahm Symphony No. three in F played by the Philharmonia Orchestra, conducted by Arturo Toscanini, and recorded live at the Royal Festival Hall in nineteen fifty two.

Presenter29:06

So, John Stephanese, of course, I imagine you probably, being such a visual creature, have quite a particular idea of what sort of island you'd like to go to.

John Stefanidis29:14

Well, it has to be Prospero's Island. An atoll with a with a palm tree would be very nice for sunbathing, but quickly boring. So my island, I hope, is going to be like Prospero's Island in the Tempest. The aisle full of roses, sounds and sweet airs come up and give delight, and hurt not.

Presenter29:36

Right, he may have an island like this.

John Stefanidis29:38

Thank you.

Presenter29:39

And would you feel the need to sort of knock it into shape? I mean, would you be replanting and moving?

John Stefanidis29:45

That's a very good question, of course.

Presenter29:50

So you'd be busy, would you?

John Stefanidis29:51

I'll be frightfully busy.

Presenter29:53

And what about interiors then? When you were designing the home you live in now, in in in central London, when you began uh thinking of it, how did you want it to be?

John Stefanidis30:03

Uh, was very much smaller than the house that I had before, which was on Trinity Walk, and um I wanted it to be sort of s streamlight and easy, rather like

John Stefanidis30:14

A hotel suite might be, but it had to have room for all my books.

Presenter30:18

And what about then fitting all the things that you had in in various homes into this uh one place in London? Are you ruthless about getting rid of things?

John Stefanidis30:26

Yeah.

Presenter30:27

Really?

John Stefanidis30:28

Yep, you keep things that have sentimental value or somehow appeal, and they're also because they have to fit. You have to be ruthless. You learn to be ruthless when you're making a garden.

Presenter30:39

And what about these Sybaritic retreats that you create for people? I mean, walking into them even in the pages of a book, you feel as if you are cosseted by aren't they lucky? But I'm wondering

John Stefanidis30:45

Biggle.

John Stefanidis30:47

So they lacked

John Stefanidis30:50

Dipping

Presenter30:51

About the amount of time that you have when you come into contact with what I would call, you know, the real world, whether it's on the bus or on the tube or the grotty streets of London or

John Stefanidis31:01

Uh

Speaker 331:01

Oh no.

John Stefanidis31:01

Uh

Presenter31:02

You know, the flocks of people wearing trainers and track suits and all the things I would imagine you probably hate.

John Stefanidis31:08

No, not at all. Do you not? No.

John Stefanidis31:11

And what about you've left out Mumbai and Calcutta?

Presenter31:15

But these places have an exotic quality that I would say probably Oxford Street or Princess Street doesn't have.

John Stefanidis31:21

But I thought, you see, when I first came to England, that the rain and the green grass was very exotic.

Presenter31:27

So you don't you don't find yourself sort of alienated from from the everyday what some people these days call it a kind of coarsening of culture.

John Stefanidis31:34

I don't really believe in that. I mean, it it it it may exist, but it runs parallel to other things that are happening which are of note and which will go down in cultural history as being important. And so you see the beauty.

Presenter31:47

Yeah.

John Stefanidis31:48

Uh

Presenter31:48

Uh

John Stefanidis31:48

Whatever

Presenter31:48

Yeah.

John Stefanidis31:49

You are? Well, it's always available, shall we say?

Presenter31:52

Tell me about your final piece of music, then.

John Stefanidis31:54

She's pursued excellence, and she died very young, Jacqueline Dupre.

John Stefanidis32:00

And she plays the cello like no one else has ever played that I know of or will ever play again.

John Stefanidis32:07

She moves me every time and I'm never bored. So she's essential on the island.

Presenter33:14

Jacqueline Dupre and Daniel Berenboyne playing part of the final movement of Cesare Franck's sonata in A I'm going to give you a copy of the Bible and the complete works of Shakspere, and you may take one other book, John. What would you like to take to this island?

John Stefanidis33:27

I want to take Homer's Odyssey.

Presenter33:30

And you may also have a luxury to make life the Spartan life of the island a little bit more bearable.

John Stefanidis33:37

Well, I'm going to have a sketch book and lots of pencils, and I'm going to end up drawing like

John Stefanidis33:43

Matisse or Picasso, if not Michelangelo.

Presenter33:46

Will you be drawing the things in your head, the great things that you've seen in the head?

John Stefanidis33:51

Including, of course, the paradise that I am creating around me.

John Stefanidis33:56

By taking cuttings and making sure they grow.

Presenter33:59

The sketchpad is yours. And if I were to force you to pick just one record of these eight to save, which one would it be?

John Stefanidis34:07

It's going to have to be Maria Colours.

Presenter34:09

John Stephanie Dis, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you, my dear.

Presenter34:21

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/radio4.