Stanley McMurtry

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand eight.

Presenter0:26

My castaway this week is the cartoonist Mac. For thirty eight years he's worked at the Daily Mail, in his own words, making the dreary news copy of the Daily Paper brighter by putting in a laugh. He's been successful in spite of his beginnings. He had to quit art school because his family couldn't afford the fees, and his father continually told him he was wasting his time drawing and would never make the grade.

Presenter0:49

Well, he did. And his work has been enjoyed over the decades not only by the Hoi Polloi, but by Prime Ministers and Superstars. Frank Sinatra got in touch personally to voice his appreciation. What was all that about? What did Old Blue Eyes want you for?

Stanley McMurtry1:01

Well, I was all of a bit of a surprise because Frank Sinatra had been in the newspapers and been accused of being part of the mafia.

Stanley McMurtry1:09

and I decided I would do a cartoon about it. I can't remember what the cartoon was about, but it was a funny one, lightheart, and it wasn't being accusative in any way. And a month went by and I got a a letter from his agent, and his agent said that Frank had asked for the cartoon.

Stanley McMurtry1:26

So I sent it off. I was really pleased about that, and I thought no more about it. But maybe six months later I got a letter from him thanking me, and saying that he had been going through a terrible time, and it was really nice to know that he had some support in Britain.

Stanley McMurtry1:40

So I've kept the letter, my daughter's got it in her autograph book still.

Presenter1:43

I bet.

Stanley McMurtry1:43

I had I was so thrilled about that.

Presenter1:45

I wonder when it comes to caricaturing or doing cartoons that are based on on real people I'm thinking now of superstars and politicians does that ever bother you, or or really it's the laugh you're after?

Stanley McMurtry1:57

Well, I think you'll find that most cartoonists who are working in Britain today would probably vote not for the politics of the person but because they've got a big nose and large ears. We'd like people that are easy to draw. I think young people are harder to draw, because they're they're not lined and they they have handsome or pretty fa I always find it very difficult to draw Tony Blair because he was young and good looking. I'd far rather have somebody who was older and few wrinkles. Golda Mayer was my favourite, the Australian Prime Minister. She was wonderful.

Presenter2:24

Of course, once they've been in for a while it's easier'cause they all start to look a bit uh battered and brilliant.

Presenter2:31

Now, you have a style that's instantly recognizable, and millions of people have a laugh, have a look at your cartoons every day. But I introduced you as Mac.

Presenter2:39

You're simply known as Mc Your Stanley McMurtry was

Stanley McMurtry2:41

It's Danny McMurtry, yes.

Presenter2:42

Do you like the idea that you are a hidden star? That that your talent is exposed every day to people, but you are not?

Stanley McMurtry2:51

Well, I had one little instance of that. A long time ago I I was on television doing something or other, and I was having a cup of coffee in a cafe, and a little boy suddenly came over to me and he said, Could I have your autograph? and I said, How well he said you were on television last night. Obviously his mum had sent him over. So I wrote my name and did a little quick little drawing for him and handed it to him and he said, What do I do with this? And I said, Well, you collect it and if you meet other people who have been on television, you might get their autographs as well. And he handed it back to me and he said, Now I collect Pokemon cards.

Stanley McMurtry3:26

So I was put in my place very quickly.

Presenter3:28

Your children are a great leveler. Tell me tell me then about your first piece of music today.

Stanley McMurtry3:32

My first piece of music is Frank Sinatra, singing My Funny Valentine. I first went to see Frank Sinatra in nineteen seventy, and he was absolutely fantastic. And I like this song particularly because it makes me think of my wife.

Stanley McMurtry3:50

Although the words in it are, your looks are laughable, unphotographable, and certainly she's not like that, she's very beautiful. So, Frank Sinatra.

Speaker 33:59

My funny Valentine

Speaker 34:04

Sweet Comic Valentine

Speaker 34:10

You make me smile.

Speaker 34:14

With my heart.

Speaker 34:20

Your looks are laughable.

Speaker 34:25

Unphotographable

Presenter4:28

Frank Sinatra, your fan, and My Funny Valentine. You said you mentioned there that it was for your wife. Is it true that your wife appears in your cartoons?

Stanley McMurtry4:36

She does every day. Every day. I I have to put her in, otherwise it started off as a joke many, many years ago and uh

Presenter4:37

Every day.

Stanley McMurtry4:43

I got a letter from of all places in Paris. Somebody had noticed it. They'd picked up the paper and they'd noticed this, and they'd said, Who's this blonde that you keep putting into your cartoon? Well, at that time it was a blonde,'cause it was my previous wife.

Stanley McMurtry4:57

But I've remarried and uh my new wife is redheaded.

Stanley McMurtry5:01

But I've made it look a lot more like her, and so she appears in the cartoon every day. She might be part of the curtains, she might be a cloud in the sky, she might be part of a puddle. She's always hidden. It's like those old books that you used to have when you were a child, where you find eight tennis rackets in this drawing or something like that. But I just did it as a little joke. And now, if I leave her out, I get letters from readers and that they've cut out the cartoon, and they'll say, Will you put a ring round where you've hidden her?

Speaker 25:08

It should let me pop.

Presenter5:27

Let's talk about your upbringing then and life as a small boy. You were born in Edinburgh, but you had I mean quite a curious upbringing, quite disjointed. You lived between Edinburgh and was it Birmingham?

Stanley McMurtry5:37

Yeah.

Stanley McMurtry5:38

Well, it was very strange. And I still don't understand why he did it. But my father used to send me up to with my older sister. I've got an older sister called Joan. And we used to be sent up to Scotland to stay with my grandmother. And we thought it would just be for a brief holiday. But it would go on month after month, and eventually we'd have to go to school up there. And then we'd be whisked off back down to Birmingham, where he'd gone to get some work. He was a commercial traveller. So we'd go down to Birmingham, and then we'd have to rejoin another school. So it was always very, very confusing. And why were you being shuttle together? Well, we don't really know. My sister and I are always a bit puzzled. I think perhaps he just wanted a bit more time with my mother, really. But we seemed to spend an awful lot of time with my granny. And I would just be getting into the hang of talking Birmingham. I'd be talking up here like this, you know, of Birmingham and I'd suddenly become a little brummy boy. And then up we'd go up to Scotland. I was we doing here like this in no time at all.

Presenter6:12

What

Presenter6:33

Was it difficult when it came to making friends though? Pe I mean child children can always be a bit curious but

Stanley McMurtry6:36

Children can always be

Stanley McMurtry6:37

And I suppose at the age of maybe fourteen

Stanley McMurtry6:43

We permanently settled in Birmingham.

Stanley McMurtry6:45

So I went to school in Birmingham, but it did upset my education a great deal.

Presenter6:49

Did your parents seem happy enough together?

Stanley McMurtry6:52

There were a lot of arguments, but they stayed together all the way through their lives, and she missed him like mad when he died. So I think they were very close.

Presenter6:53

Yeah.

Presenter7:00

And was money tight?

Stanley McMurtry7:02

Money was very tight. We were very poor. When we moved to Birmingham we lived in a tiny little cottage which didn't have any running water at all. Well it had cold water, but no hot water. It had an outside toilet, and it was freezing cold, and so we were all fairly heavily constipated, because you wouldn't go out to the outside loo during the winter. And in the in the summer months I'd be sitting in the loo and there was a dart board on the other side. My father used to he was a very good darts player.

Stanley McMurtry7:29

And as a wee boy I'd be sitting there in the toilet, and I could hear this thud, thud, thud on the other side of the door, and I'd have to shout when I was finished Daddy, can I come out now?'Cause I didn't want a dart in the middle of my forehead.

Stanley McMurtry7:41

And in the toilet, by the way, they had the newspapers were cut up into squares and were hanging there so

Stanley McMurtry7:47

Perhaps somebody might even be using my cartoon for the same purpose now.

Presenter7:49

What a thought. I mean, the sort of uh poverty you describe was much more I mean, to to people of a younger generation now, it does seem extreme, but it was much more common among working class people to have that sort of upbringing. Did it make an indelible impact upon you?

Stanley McMurtry7:56

Uh

Stanley McMurtry8:02

And it didn't mean

Stanley McMurtry8:04

Well, we didn't really know that we were poor, really. That was that was life for us. I felt uh mildly jealous when I went to friends' houses,'cause they were in nineteen thirties semi detached houses, which seemed terribly posh to me. And I remember feeling slightly ashamed bringing people back to my house,'cause it was so

Presenter8:07

Turn it.

Stanley McMurtry8:21

Well, not squalid, but very, very basic.

Presenter8:25

Tell me about your next piece of music, then.

Stanley McMurtry8:28

The next piece of music is Frankie Lane.

Presenter8:30

And why had you chosen this?

Stanley McMurtry8:31

Well, when I was about fourteen, Frankie Lane was at the at his peak, and I had a very good friend called Lynn.

Stanley McMurtry8:38

And Glyn and I used to camp out in the summer in his garden. He had a very nice garden. We'd we'd get into a tent and we'd lie there playing on a wind up gramophone, Frankie Lane Records, and it was always I Believe. At that time I Believe we'd play it over and over and over again, until eventually the neighbours would look out of the window and say, For goodness sake, shut up and we'd think, Well, what can we do now? I can't sleep, so we'd go out and go scrumping, pinch all the neighbours' apples.

Speaker 29:05

I believe for every drop of rain that falls

Speaker 29:12

A flower grows

Speaker 29:16

I believe that somewhere in the darkest night

Speaker 29:23

A candle glow

Speaker 29:27

I believe for everyone that goes astray someone will come

Presenter9:36

Frankie Lane and I believe in memories there of being in the tent was it in Glyn's back garden listening to that on the little record player. Weren't you drawing right from the beginning, from as soon as you could could draw?

Stanley McMurtry9:46

I was always very keen on drawing. I I liked looking at comics. But I met Glynn, this friend of mine, who I camped in the garden with, and he was a very, very good artist, and we'd sit in his dining room, and he would be drawing strip cartoons, and I would be drawing strip cartoons as well. But I got the bug from doing that, and from then on I was always drawing.

Presenter10:10

I'd like to get this sense of. I mean, you say I was always drawing. Was it literally in the sort of margins of your own?

Stanley McMurtry10:14

The margins of my homework and uh every single piece of paper I was that was nearby I would do a little doodle on.

Presenter10:20

And there was a history of art, as it were, in the family. I mean, your great-grandfather was a painter.

Stanley McMurtry10:24

My father's father painted, but his father my great grandfather was a portrait painter. I don't know how good he was, but I just found a birth certificate, and there it was a painter, and I thought well painter and decorator. But in fact he was a portrait painter.

Presenter10:39

And what about your father? Did he have any artistic ability?

Stanley McMurtry10:41

I don't think so. I think he thought that cartoonists were actually born, rather than actually trained and learning it and gradually honing your skills.

Stanley McMurtry10:51

In that when I did try to become a cartoonist, and he'd he'd paid for me to go to art college after all.

Stanley McMurtry10:56

He said, Oh, you're wasting your time. You're not good enough for this kind of business. And he didn't realize that you can eventually become good enough.

Presenter11:04

Why do you think I mean, that sort of trying to thwart your child's ambition probably comes from one of two reasons, which is either that you're afraid that somebody's setting themselves up for a fall,

Speaker 311:13

Yeah.

Stanley McMurtry11:13

Setting

Stanley McMurtry11:15

Yeah.

Presenter11:15

Or you really don't think they're up to much.

Stanley McMurtry11:17

I think he probably was afraid I was up for a fall, but I and also I think behind it all was the perception that it wasn't really a proper job. A proper job was going at selling something or or making something.

Stanley McMurtry11:31

And eventually, after two years at Art College, he pulled me out and said, Luria, I think you ought to be earning a living now. So off I went to get a job.

Presenter11:38

We'll talk about that in just a second. Before we do, tell me about your third choice.

Stanley McMurtry11:42

Third choice is Jossi Björling, they had a programme on the radio called Family Favourites.

Stanley McMurtry11:49

And Yussibioling was quite regularly played, and it was None Shall Sleep long, long before Pavarotti made the record.

Stanley McMurtry11:56

And I fell in love with this man's voice. He has such a wonderful melancholy and wonderful sadness in his voice. My two children got absolutely fed up listening to him when they were kids, and when they were young they used to say, Oh, not Jussie Blurhead again.

Speaker 312:21

Mercy on me.

Presenter13:12

Jossi Burling singing Nessandorma from Puccini's Turin dot You went to art school. What was life like whilst you were at art school? Was that a blossoming time for you?

Stanley McMurtry13:21

I was still living in the the same cottage and we I was travelling up and down. Uh I w I wish really i that I could have gone to university and had the fun of living and being away away from home and then coming back maybe for weekends. But I I was back every night. And I used to do a paper round every morning, get up very, very early in the morning and do it. And also on Sundays I'd do it. And all the money that I got from my paper round well, not all of it, I had to give to my dad to help towards my keep.

Presenter13:49

Wasn't

Presenter13:50

It wasn't a free and easy student life where you were experimenting with uh all sorts of lifestyles.

Stanley McMurtry13:51

busy student life where you are experimenting with uh all

Stanley McMurtry13:55

I was pretty broke all the time. And I had used to have to wear my father's cast off suits as well, because I was about the same height as him. And he had quite a pot belly, and I used to have to kind of pull fold the trousers over and tie them together with a belt. I must have looked terrible.

Presenter14:11

I don't know if it has ever occurred to you, but listening to you talk about living at home whilst you were a student and wearing your father's suits. I mean, classically, it is a time, of course, when.

Stanley McMurtry14:17

Tell me.

Presenter14:19

Children, and in a way they must do this for their own sanity, choose to reject the things that their parents have. Never mind.

Stanley McMurtry14:24

Yeah.

Stanley McMurtry14:25

Yeah.

Presenter14:26

living at home every evening, handing any money they make over to their parents, and wearing their dad's suits. I mean, was there any sense in which you felt compromised or overshadowed by your father?

Stanley McMurtry14:36

To be quite honest, at that time I was quite scared of my father. He was quite Victorian, and he was quite prone to give me a good slap across the head if I overstepped the mark.

Presenter14:47

Even as a even as a teenager.

Stanley McMurtry14:47

And I was like

Stanley McMurtry14:49

Yeah, as a teenager. What he wanted was he wanted a an academic, and I was never an academic. I was never very good at maths, and never very good at most subjects at school apart from art and English, perhaps. And I was a big disappointment to him for not being cleverer than I was. And I think that he felt that art was a bit of a a lowly profession compared with others.

Presenter15:11

How much support were you getting from your mother?

Stanley McMurtry15:13

My mother was very supportive, but she would side with my father if uh I I I used to hear them arguing up in from my bedroom upstairs, I'd hear them arguing about me and what I'd do and what I hadn't done and all that kind of stuff, and she was very supportive.

Stanley McMurtry15:27

And uh even up until my father died I was always slightly on edge with him.

Presenter15:33

I mean, that's that's very interesting because there there there can be a moment, of course, when the the little boy grows up into a teenager and suddenly he can look his father in the eye. And when his father's raising his hand, he can choose to raise his hand back. Did it I mean, did you ever confront your father?

Stanley McMurtry15:39

Yeah.

Stanley McMurtry15:40

Lucas

Stanley McMurtry15:42

I know.

Stanley McMurtry15:48

We had a couple of big, big blow ups together, and he wanted me to apologise, and I w refused. And I said, Look, you've got to apologise to me, because I think you're just being over the top heavy handed. And my way of escaping was that I I left home and and w w went into the army.

Stanley McMurtry16:06

And how did you find that was that perversely a freedom? It was a freedom. I got away from home then.

Stanley McMurtry16:11

I was pretty glad to get away and just be my own man.

Presenter16:14

And what about your professional life then? Through art school had you determined that actually it was working as a cartoonist that you wanted to do, or were you open to any possibility when it came to your artistic ambition?

Stanley McMurtry16:23

I was open to any any possibility because to be honest, I I never ever thought that I would make it as a an artist until I became a trainee film animator. How did that happen?

Speaker 316:33

That's the

Stanley McMurtry16:35

Glynn and I, the chap I was talking about earlier, we used to go to Borth in Cardiganshire for our holidays, mainly with his parents. We'd always go off with his parents, and they'd hire a big house, and us two lads we'd have a great time there. And there was a girl there called Julie, whom we both m fell madly in love with. She was very pretty. She looked like Leslie

Stanley McMurtry16:54

And then I found that her step brother was opening a cartoon film studio in Henley on Thames. Her mother wrote to me and said, Why don't you get in touch with him?'Cause he's looking for people to train as an animat as animators. And he gave me a job as a trainee. I was ta taken on at seven pounds a week and lived in Henley

Stanley McMurtry17:14

The man that gave me the job, Nick Spargo, he he was a brilliant cartoonist himself, and I used to sit beside him and watch him doing his cartoons, and be absolutely full of admiration and determined that that's what I would like to do.

Stanley McMurtry17:27

Eventually

Stanley McMurtry17:29

We were we were living in a in a little semi detached house at the time I was married, with a young baby.

Stanley McMurtry17:36

And the post came one day, and I opened this envelope, and there was a letter in it saying that I'd sold my very first cartoon to a magazine called Today.

Stanley McMurtry17:44

And

Stanley McMurtry17:46

They were going to pay me eleven pounds just for this one cartoon. This was a week's wages for this one drawing, and I realized, oh, wow, this is for me.

Presenter17:54

More in a moment, for now tell me about your next piece of music.

Stanley McMurtry17:57

Oh.

Stanley McMurtry17:58

WAGNER. When I was started with Nick Spargo at the animation place, I I was in Diggs in Henley, and there was um a man there who was a forester. I used to go and at the weekends I'd go out and help him felling trees. But in the evenings, in the long wintery evenings, we'd spend a lot of time indoors and he'd play these classical records. And uh I got very, very, very interested in classical music, and um the one that we played most was Wagner.

Stanley McMurtry18:26

Not the whole opera, just the preludes and the overtures to various bits and pieces, but I fell in love with Loingren.

Presenter19:30

The Prelude to Act One of Wagner's Leuhrngren, played by the Detroit Symphony Orchestra conducted by Paul Parrey. It was forty years ago then that you joined what was the Daily Sketch, but both your parents were still alive when you were employed.

Stanley McMurtry19:43

That's right.

Presenter19:43

Pianza cartoonist, what did they make of that? Were they proud of you?

Stanley McMurtry19:47

Well, um

Stanley McMurtry19:48

My mother tells me that my father was very proud, and occasionally he'd pat me on the back. I got the job on the Daily Sketch, and they took me on a kind of temporary basis. You know, they say we'll give you six months' trial, and two or three years went by and they didn't tell me I'd got the job. And come to think of it, they haven't told me I'd got the job yet.

Presenter20:08

Did anybody when you started tell you what the rules were? Did they say you have to do this, you must never do this? The editorial line is such and such at that time I'm talking about.

Stanley McMurtry20:08

Dead body.

Stanley McMurtry20:17

I I don't think so. I think you see there is a there's a certain form of censorship goes on in that I produce about five ideas every day. I rough them down in rough form and take them into the editor, and he chooses the one that he likes. So if there was one that was violently against the policy of the paper, I suppose that would be just put to one side. Editors like to edit, so I I you know that's what that's what happens. And I think that's a

Presenter20:39

So you have a very direct relationship with the editor. Oh, yes. There are very many people working on newspapers who would love such a direct relationship.

Stanley McMurtry20:41

Oh yes.

Stanley McMurtry20:45

Accumulation

Stanley McMurtry20:46

I'm very, very p uh fortunate and privileged that I've got an editor that has the same kind of humour that I have and seems to appreciate what I do.

Presenter20:54

So this is Paul Dacre, you work for

Stanley McMurtry20:56

I'm I work with Paul Dacre at the moment, yes.

Presenter20:58

You worked for a long time, I mean for more than tw twenty years it must have been with David Inglis. He was known for being a very ballsy editor. How did you get on with him?

Stanley McMurtry21:01

David English.

Stanley McMurtry21:06

We I got on very, very well with him. You see, the thing is that we cartoonists we go in wearing the jester's hat, if you like. So whereas editors can bawl out writers and they shout and scream at other copy takers or whatever it is, they tend to treat the cartoonist

Stanley McMurtry21:25

Much more fairly. I think it's because maybe there are fewer of us.

Presenter21:29

And maybe because they can't do it themselves. Maybe they can do it. I mean, they can always sit down at a keyboard and rattle out a very good leader or an article if they want to. They can't do what you do.

Stanley McMurtry21:30

Maybe the natives.

Stanley McMurtry21:35

They can't.

Stanley McMurtry21:37

I think that's true. I think you've hit it.

Presenter21:40

Tell me about your next choice, then.

Stanley McMurtry21:42

The next choice is

Stanley McMurtry21:44

Johnny Hodges is a saxophonist, and a brilliant saxophonist.

Stanley McMurtry21:50

Many years ago I bought myself a little alto sax.

Stanley McMurtry21:54

and I went for lessons with a chap who used to play for the London Saxophone Quartet, and at first all I could get was some raspberry noises out of this thing, and lots of spit.

Stanley McMurtry22:06

But I persevered and persevered and there is a thing called the embouchure and your lip if you don't play for a lot your lip goes it just becomes sloppy and you can't get this the right pressure on the reed.

Presenter22:18

You need to work the muscle.

Stanley McMurtry22:19

You have to work the muscle.

Presenter22:19

Yeah

Stanley McMurtry22:21

And after hours and hours of practice,'cause I was working at home in those days in the and sending my work into the Daily Mail, and I had a detached house, so I could make as much noise as I liked. Every the children were at school, my wife was out working, and so when I'd finished my drawing, or if I felt fed up halfway through, I'd get this saxophone out, and it's amazing how it cheers you up, you know, to be playing music.

Stanley McMurtry22:43

I've always loved the saxophone, and one day I heard Johnny Hodgetts playing I've Got It Bad and That Ain't Good and it sends a tingle up the back of my neck every time I hear it.

Presenter23:49

Johnny Hodges and I've got it bad and that ain't good. And you were saying during that that you didn't always have the luxury of practising in a detached house with uh your wife and children out for the day. You used to practice in your flat.

Stanley McMurtry23:59

That's right. Well, w what what happened was we moved from the uh the detached house into a flat. I was on my own'cause the m my marriage had broken up.

Stanley McMurtry24:09

And my teacher said, Oh, you can't give up the saxophone. I said, Well, what am I going to do? Because I'm going to disturb all the neighbours. And he said, Well, get into the wardrobe and put a sock down the horn of the saxophone and blow from there, blow there. And he said, And then you'll keep your embouchure and that'd be fine. And I tried this for two or three weeks, and in the end, I said to him, I can't do this. He said, Well, okay, get into bed and pull the duvet over your head and just sit there and play, cross-legged, play the saxophone. And I did this. It was so hot.

Stanley McMurtry24:39

And in the end I had to give up that. So my poor old saxophone is down in the cellar, unused, getting gathering dust.

Presenter24:45

The Daily Mail elicits a very, very strong feeling on on on both sides. There are people who can't get through their day without it, many millions of them. It is a hugely popular paper at a time when newspapers generally are declining in circulation.

Stanley McMurtry24:51

Yeah.

Stanley McMurtry24:56

Two.

Speaker 324:57

Passively.

Stanley McMurtry24:57

Sh

Presenter24:58

On the other hand, there are many people who who decry it as a newspaper that undermines the very social fabric of Britain.

Speaker 325:04

Uh

Presenter25:04

You must surely feel a strong connection with the paper to have worked for it for as many years I mean coming up for forty years as you have.

Stanley McMurtry25:11

I do. I'll I I I'm very, very fond of the paper. And it the whole feeling that you get when you're at the Daily Mail is that you're working.

Stanley McMurtry25:19

almost like in a a family business.

Stanley McMurtry25:22

And I know it's middle of the road, and I know an awful lot of people don't like what the Daily Mail stands for, but I think that it's it actually has

Stanley McMurtry25:32

A lot to say for middle-class Britain

Presenter25:34

How much do you feel you are responsible for setting the tone of the paper to a degree? I mean, you know, in a way that the the underlying ethos behind your cartoons has to obviously support the underlying editorial ethos of the paper, does it?

Stanley McMurtry25:50

I draw to amuse me.

Stanley McMurtry25:53

I'll draw all my cartoons. I don't think about the policy of the paper. I don't think about what I think it might please the readers. I do it to please me. So I don't really feel that I'm trying very hard to make the editor happy or to make the paper happy. I'm just doing something to make me happy. And if it happens to coincide with what the editor wants, that's great.

Presenter26:14

Yes, what about that? Because I mean yours i you know, yours is not the political satire, the excoriating style of somebody like Gerald Scarfe. You know, yours is that it's that light, amusing style.

Stanley McMurtry26:21

Stop.

Stanley McMurtry26:23

Does that

Stanley McMurtry26:27

Offer you.

Stanley McMurtry26:29

Very often oh, yes, you do have to adapt. There's a lot in into a serious cartoon you tend to put more black into it and make it much more dramatic. But I do do things. I remember when one of the most controversial ones I did for a few years back was when we had an IRA chap, Bobby Sands, who was starving himself to death.

Stanley McMurtry26:49

And the vicars and the priests were all praying round his bed.

Stanley McMurtry26:54

And I did a cartoon of a soldier who'd had his arms blown off and a leg blown off, and the there there was on one side of the picture was all these people praying for this Bobby Sands.

Stanley McMurtry27:05

And the soldier was just saying, Nobody seems to bother about the weight I've lost. And I've got so many letters over that one, people liked it.

Presenter27:13

Tell me about your next choice, then.

Stanley McMurtry27:15

Oh, the next choice is Lonny Donegan and the Battle of New Orleans. I love Lonny Donegan's music. He was a huge hit when I was a lot younger. And when I met my wife, Liz,

Stanley McMurtry27:29

From time to time we'd go to a function or we'd go off on holiday and everybody was expected to do a little piece, sing a song, and all that kind of stuff. And Liz always sang this song from The Battle of New Orleans by Lonnie Donegan. It's the only song that she knows with all the words to. And it'll when I'm on my desert island it'll remind me of her.

Speaker 327:48

Old Peckon said we could take them by surprise If we didn't fire a musket so we looked him in the eye

Speaker 327:56

There we stood quite still till we see their faces well Then we opened up our muskets and we really gave em whirl We fired our guns and the British kept a coming And there wasn't not as many as there was a in and when we fired once more They began a runnin' all down the Mississippi Chimbicul for Mexico

Presenter28:15

LONNNY DONAGHN AND THE BATTLE OF NEW ORLEANS. Uh You've said, I've read that you've said your life has been a succession of lucky coincidences. I'm not quite sure I believe that, you know.

Stanley McMurtry28:24

Well, life life has been hard work. I really have grafted very hard. As I said when we we're talking about animation, I worked very, very hard in those days, and I worked very hard and

Stanley McMurtry28:36

was so dogmatic with sending everything off to the punch magazine even though I'd been rejected.

Stanley McMurtry28:42

Many times. I think perseverance is a quality I've got.

Stanley McMurtry28:46

But it just seems to me that I've been so lucky in my life, really, in that I've always been constantly surprised that I've got where I have done, and it it just seems that somebody up there is looking after me.

Presenter28:59

Tell me about your next piece of music then.

Stanley McMurtry29:01

Next piece of music is um Brooks Violin Concerto.

Stanley McMurtry29:06

A man that got me very interested in in classical music was a a teacher called mister Brewer. He used to have a wind up grammar phone and a little little gadget on the side, though he used to sharpen the needles.

Stanley McMurtry29:18

And he used to play

Stanley McMurtry29:20

Mendelssohn's Fingles Cave to Us Boys. For quite a few years I thought that

Stanley McMurtry29:24

That piece of music had a very slow movement in the middle of it, but in fact it was the the grammophone winding down, and he'd have to come and wind it all up again. But he played Brooke's violin concerto once, and it stuck with me, and I haven't got any stories to tell about it apart from that. I just love it.

Presenter30:29

Tasman Little playing the adagio from Brooks Violin Concerto in G minor with the Liverpool Philharmonic conducted by Vernon Handley. Not just the Liverpool Philharmonic, it sounds as if we've been joined by some drilling in the studio next door. Mac, I hope you'll excuse that. And what about I suppose we can't really quantify our personal life in terms of success, but you mentioned Elizabeth Liz, your wife. She's your third wife. You've got two children from your first marriage, who are grown up. You've got four grandchildren now. I mean, has it been.

Stanley McMurtry30:54

Astra

Presenter30:57

A tumultuous private life?

Stanley McMurtry31:00

It's a record I'm not very proud of. I mean, I don't like the idea that I've been married three times. And.

Stanley McMurtry31:06

I'm still very friendly with my two wives.

Presenter31:09

Are you a doting grandad?

Stanley McMurtry31:11

I am. I love my ch my grandchildren. Sadly they're all split up. I've got two lovely children grandchildren in Australia, and I love them to bits. They're a lovely couple of kids. Sadly I miss them like mad'cause I I can't see them, they're so far away.

Presenter31:23

So you're going to miss them on the island, then,'cause of course I'm about to send you away.

Stanley McMurtry31:26

Well I'm hoping it's going to be near Australia.

Presenter31:28

It's not near anywhere, this island.

Presenter31:31

How will you deal with being on your own?

Stanley McMurtry31:33

Oh, I miss them like mad, yes. Miss them tremendously,'cause they're great fun, and we all get on tr so well.

Presenter31:40

Well, let's now hear in an attempt not just to drown out the drilling, but because it's a very good tune, let's hear about your last choice then. What's your final choice today?

Stanley McMurtry31:48

Uh my last choice is Peggy Lee. She sang a song called Is That All There Is? And I've always thought that when I do eventually pop my clogs I'd like that s played at my funeral. So when I'm on my desert island, if I've got that record there, nobody's bothered to rescue me and I'm still sat sat there and the time comes for me to go off to

Stanley McMurtry32:11

wherever I am going off to the great drawing board in the sky.

Stanley McMurtry32:14

I'm hoping I can heave myself off my my mattress and go across and put the record player on and have Peggy Lee singing this as I take my last breath.

Speaker 332:23

If that's all there is, my friend.

Speaker 332:27

Then let's keep dancing.

Speaker 332:32

Let's break out the booze and have a ball

Speaker 332:41

If that's all

Speaker 332:46

They

Presenter32:50

Peggy Lee, and is that all there is? So I'm going to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. And, Mac, you're allowed to take a book of your own. What will your book be?

Stanley McMurtry32:59

Well

Stanley McMurtry33:00

I've always been a great fan of John Steinbeck. I've I've read most of his stuff, but what I would like is the collected work of John Steinbeck so that I can have all the time in the world to be able to read it thoroughly.

Presenter33:11

You may have that, and your luxury.

Stanley McMurtry33:13

Now, just one little question I've got about this. What's the security like before I go on this island?

Presenter33:19

The four is very, very stringent.

Stanley McMurtry33:21

So they'll notice the half-set of golf clubs down my trouser leg.

Presenter33:24

We will. And the reel. The reels of paper up my shirt. No, none of that.

Stanley McMurtry33:25

And the reels of paper up my shirt.

Stanley McMurtry33:29

Ah, well, my my choice would be a tenor saxophone.

Presenter33:29

Yeah.

Stanley McMurtry33:33

Because I'll be able to get my embouchure right and learn how to play the saxophone. Not as well as Johnny Hodges, but I'm hoping that.

Presenter33:40

Yeah.

Stanley McMurtry33:40

I can get better.

Presenter33:41

So no drawing, then?

Stanley McMurtry33:43

Well, you see, I'm on this island, and I think most islands have got litter being washed ashore all the time, so there are bound to be bits of paper come ashore. I shall light a fire, and I'll make charcoal, and I'll do some drawings on these pieces of paper that I've allowed to dry out. Hope I can find a few bottles that have drifted in, and then I shall put these drawings into the bottle addressed to the Daily Mail, and I shall send all my cartoons in that way. They'll be a little late, and maybe not quite so topical, but maybe after a while the editor will send out a search party and I'll be rescued.

Presenter34:05

The center of my cartoons

Presenter34:13

Well, I can't guarantee you the flotsome, but I can guarantee the saxophone that you may have. And if you had to choose just one record from these eight discs, which one would it be?

Stanley McMurtry34:21

I'd have to have Brooke, Brooke's violin concerto, cause I can play that endlessly without ever getting fed up of it.

Presenter34:27

Well Max Stanley McMurtry, thank you very much for letting us hear your desertation today.

Stanley McMurtry34:30

It's been a huge pleasure. Thank you.

Presenter34:39

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.