Michael Ball

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Presenter0:08

The program was originally broadcast in two thousand eight.

Presenter0:27

My castaway this week is Michael Ball. The biggest stage musical star of his generation, he's been the West End's leading man for more than twenty years. Described as one of the great intelligent singing artists today, he's bagged all the plum rolls going and a rock-solid fanbase along with it. All twelve of his solo albums have gone gold within weeks of hitting the shops. Yet, for a time it seemed he would have to abandon his career. He was so crippled with stage fright that for a year he couldn't perform, suffering panic attacks so severe he thought he might die. He retreated to the isolation of his flat. He says I just sat in my flat and was miserable. I worked it out myself, didn't go and see anyone, but worked out what my problems were that needed resolving.

Presenter1:11

It's an incredible journey for a man who these days describes the sensation of being on stage as just a feeling of being bathed in love and joy. It's all about that, then, for you. It's all about the relationship with the audience.

Michael Ball1:23

Um, certainly when you're doing solo things, when you're doing solo concerts. Yeah, that's why and I think anybody is is performing. They want approval and appreciation from an audience.

Presenter1:35

Different than when you're in a musical, or you have it?

Michael Ball1:37

I think so, because you're being a character then. You're hiding behind something. You're not being yourself. You want a reaction, uh an acknowledgment from the audience. But when you're being just yourself, absolutely, you just want a Niagara of unqualified praise and love.

Presenter1:52

When we explore that,

Michael Ball1:52

Explore that.

Presenter1:55

How do you know when you're on stage doing the solo stuff that you've got them? Is there literally a moment where you think...

Michael Ball1:59

Literally a moment to you quite often don't know why. It's the stars aligning for some reason. The sound is absolutely right. The atmosphere is right. You don't have to worry about what sound is coming out. And you're part of the roller coaster as much as the audience then. You just ride it. Those occasions are really rare.

Presenter2:08

Isn't that

Michael Ball2:20

But when they happen, it's super sexual, it's fantastic, it's extraordinary.

Presenter2:26

It's extraordinary. It's what athletes would call it being in the zone. Is it that moment when you are just taken off by

Michael Ball2:28

And you know that whatever you're doing, you can make an entire crowd of three, four thousand, say if in the theater, laugh and then turn it on a sixpence and absolutely make them still and cry. And it's intoxicating power.

Presenter2:45

What about your let's call them your much earlier public performances? You busked when you were a student, didn't you? Yeah.

Michael Ball2:49

Yeah.

Michael Ball2:51

Yeah, I did. I did. I was I was when I went to to to drama school, one of the girls there, she and I discovered this underpass in we were in Guildford, between Debenham's and the High Street. And we would busk every Saturday and make an a tidy little bit, you know, that would help us party for the weekend.

Michael Ball3:07

And it was fun and people liked it and people liked us doing it, I think. So I I always felt that there was a place for me and if someone would recognize what I could do, that I'd be all right, that I could do very well.

Presenter3:19

So much to ask you about, but first of all, let's hear your first choice of the age. What have you chosen?

Michael Ball3:23

It's Saint-Son, simply number three in C minor. You know, Kirsty, I've I've dreaded doing this.

Presenter3:31

Thank you.

Michael Ball3:33

Not for you, but it's an impossibility. Well, it isn't. You know, I've changed my mind sat here five times as to what to bring. So I thought this one piece of classical music would work for me and we're going to listen to the end movement, which is just so stirring and it's got a great big church organ and it just

Speaker 23:35

Deep. It's important.

Michael Ball3:49

I don't know, it fills your heart with

Michael Ball3:52

The belief that maybe there's something else out there, and it's an extraordinary piece of music.

Presenter4:56

The opening of the final movement of Saintson's Symphony No. 3 in C minor. Let's go back then to the young Michael Boll. What what was home life like?

Michael Ball5:03

Yeah.

Michael Ball5:04

Life was uh was really nice. Um Where was it? I was born in Bromsgrove, which is just outside Birmingham, but moved away when we were three and we moved to Dartmoor. And it was brilliant. What a great playground for a kid. Very close family. Um

Presenter5:19

And your parents were sort of self made people very hard.

Michael Ball5:20

Yeah, my my my mum uh is Welsh and from my grandfather was a was a miner.

Michael Ball5:27

And my f my dad was uh he wanted to be an actor, and his parents wouldn't let him. He went and became an Austin apprentice up in Longbridge.

Presenter5:34

But what did they fear for? Did they fear for his model substitution?

Michael Ball5:34

But what do they feel?

Michael Ball5:36

Yes, it's just not a real job, is it? But as it was, Dad went off and did his own thing, was very successful in the business world.

Presenter5:44

And your grandmother was a very important thing.

Michael Ball5:45

And you grow

Michael Ball5:47

My Welsh grandmother, yeah. My Welsh grandma, my mum's telling me about her. She was an extraordinary woman. She was a Welsh matriarch. She was fiercely proud and protective, loved us grandkids to distraction, and made us feel we could do anything. The saddest thing, she gave me certainly a love of great music and great singers, and knew good singing when she heard it. So when I went into the music business, she.

Presenter5:47

And

Presenter5:49

Tell me about her.

Michael Ball6:16

was as proud as anybody could be, thought it was absolutely the only thing I could do. And um I remember she died a week before coming to see me in the big job I'd landed, the Pirates of Penzance, which was just devastating because all the reviews had come out and she hadn't she hadn't been ill or anything. All the reviews hadn't come back. She'd been to everybody's house in the town probably showing them these incredible reviews and

Michael Ball6:44

Just dropped down, dead, far too young of a heart attack.

Presenter6:47

And is it true that you wear her wedding rings?

Michael Ball6:48

Absolutely, yeah, there.

Presenter6:50

On a chain round your neck.

Michael Ball6:51

Good night.

Presenter6:54

Tell me about your next piece of music.

Michael Ball6:55

Well this one is for Gran. She always used to tell me the greatest singer in her opinion was Mahalia Jackson. And I remember being finally convinced that she was the greatest ever female vocalist, watching a film called Imitation of Life with Landa Turner, which is one of these big, epic, melodramatic

Presenter6:55

Go ahead.

Michael Ball7:15

Cinema scope, vast things. And one of the final scenes is Lana Turner's best friend and maid dying, the black woman, and there's this extraordinary scene where they're they're having her uh funeral, and there's a huge funeral cortege and black horse. It's my funeral, basically, what I want. And there's Mahalia Jackson.

Presenter7:35

Not a low-key affair, you might know.

Michael Ball7:36

No, no, no, no, I want weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth. And there's Mahalia Draxon singing this song. And.

Michael Ball7:44

To actually watch the woman singing and just this this inner belief and sincerity, a natural and an extraordinary instrument of her voice. It's

Michael Ball7:55

Hard to beat it.

Presenter7:58

Yeah

Presenter8:01

Done.

Presenter8:04

Yeah.

Speaker 28:04

Trouble uh

Speaker 28:07

In this world

Speaker 28:12

But trouble all in this world.

Speaker 28:18

Oh my troubled love

Speaker 28:21

But a hind is a war

Presenter8:23

Mahalia Jackson and Trouble of the World, you sing all the time.

Michael Ball8:27

Well I'm listening along, I'm sorry. Don't be sorry.

Presenter8:30

Be sorry. Don't be sorry, but I just wonder as a child.

Michael Ball8:33

Yeah.

Michael Ball8:34

That's how I learnt to sing. I've never had singing lessons, so that's how I learnt to sing. You've never had singing lessons.

Presenter8:37

You've never had s

Michael Ball8:39

I listened to music and I used to sing along to it and I used to listen to people like Mahaley Jackson and Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald and that's how I taught myself to sing.

Presenter8:48

Did you do a turn for the family?

Michael Ball8:50

Yeah, yeah, we all did.

Presenter8:52

That was your turn.

Michael Ball8:54

There's a song Sally Brown is a bright new latter. Way hey, roll and go. She drinks from and choose to back her. Way I can't remember it. We all used to just get up and do stuff. And Gran was, um we were talking about earlier, was a real one for galvanizing that. So instead of everyone sitting around and watching Tally, we'd all get up and have fun.

Presenter9:15

Did you know then how to work an audience?

Michael Ball9:18

Kind of all right from

Michael Ball9:21

The start. It sounds awful now, the kind of kid you'd want to shoot. But I loved the the movie of The Sound of Music and Mary Poppins. And I used to come in and I'd put I'd I'd do bits of it and you know, do bit of Bert and the old bamboo and the old bamboo from chitty chitty bang bang and stuff. Which of course you did a bit of a music. You can imagine how excited I was doing that.

Presenter9:39

Of course you did a few of them.

Michael Ball9:43

But I would never get to the point where people would go would actually want to shoot me and I'd stop absolutely. And it would never got to the bit where I I was a pain.

Presenter9:49

Leave them once more.

Michael Ball9:55

Uh

Presenter9:55

Yeah.

Michael Ball9:55

Uh

Presenter9:55

Uh

Michael Ball9:55

Yeah.

Presenter9:55

Yeah.

Michael Ball9:55

Did send you away to boarding school?

Presenter9:56

I'm sure the two aren't related in any way.

Michael Ball9:56

So that's

Michael Ball9:59

Well done now, go away.

Presenter10:02

Uh

Michael Ball10:02

Uh No, I mean seriously

Presenter10:03

Is it what you were eleven when you went to home?

Michael Ball10:04

Oh, it's eleven, yeah.

Presenter10:05

And you didn't really come from a background, it seems, where that was the thing that people did.

Michael Ball10:09

People did. But you can imagine that's what the people should do. So it was aspirational. Yeah, my folks had worked really hard. Dad had done really well in business. And my folks thought they were giving me the best education possible. I didn't know there was any real alternative. And it was a horrible experience. I think that.

Presenter10:14

Very good.

Michael Ball10:30

Boarding schools are are are wrong.

Presenter10:33

So, I mean, you had a very happy childhood and a very happy family life, but there was a sense in which you very much felt like a a square peg in a round hole.

Michael Ball10:35

Yeah.

Michael Ball10:37

Yeah.

Michael Ball10:40

Certainly when I w when I went to boarding school at school, absolutely. And it kind of changed life at home as well. My sister had been born by then. I'm nine years older than her. So I went from being kind of the little

Michael Ball10:54

to being the middle child away at school. If school was extremely sporty and academic, everything that I'm not, um I think that's when you start inventing yourself in order to try and fit in. So you try and be all things to all men. You know, you're you're trying to be popular, you try to be funny, you try to be clever, all the things that that

Michael Ball11:16

As I say, all things to all men. And you then kind of

Michael Ball11:21

Don't have any time to

Michael Ball11:23

No, uh to just unburden yourself when you're when you're little.

Presenter11:27

Do you think that was the beginning of the sort of the show must-go-on mentality, the sort of happy face, give it away?

Michael Ball11:31

The sort of happy face. Give it give a happy face. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Never show that that that are there are any problems at all.

Presenter11:34

Absolutely.

Michael Ball11:38

Which is just storing it up, isn't it? Because you know it's going to come out eventually. Which we shall talk about in a minute. But tell me about your next piece of news. Okay, Dinah Washington singing September in the Rain. Absolutely.

Presenter11:42

Which we shall talk about in a minute.

Michael Ball11:49

I used to l hear this when I'd gone away back to school, and one of the songs that we'd always sit down and sing, and mum was really good at playing the piano, was September in the Rain.

Michael Ball11:59

And I used to hear it and cry my eyes out.

Michael Ball12:02

Okay.

Michael Ball12:04

Why am I here? So I thought this would really cheer me up on the desert island.

Speaker 412:08

The leaves of brown came tumbling down remember

Speaker 412:16

In September.

Speaker 412:21

In the rain.

Speaker 412:25

The sun went out just like a diamond.

Michael Ball12:27

Just like a dying hand.

Presenter12:30

Ember

Speaker 412:33

That September.

Speaker 412:38

In rain.

Presenter12:39

Dinah Washington and September in the Rain. Your moment of epiphany came then when you joined a youth theatre.

Michael Ball12:45

Yeah. Now I'd been interested in theatre. My dad had taken me to see shows in in the holidays and we'd been to Stratford-on-Avon to see King Lear. I remember one of the most amazing productions I'd ever seen. Trevor Nunn directed it. Donald Sindon was Lear. Judy Dench, all people I know now, this is not so early. Judy Dench was Reagan. So you say to them, I saw you. Oh, absolutely. I'm the fan. Absolutely. And it really was a groundbreaking production, extraordinary production.

Presenter13:04

What do you say to them?

Presenter13:11

How old would you have been?

Michael Ball13:12

I would have been fourteen.

Presenter13:14

And as a fourteen year old, thirteen year old, did you think that's what I'm going to do?

Michael Ball13:17

No, not at all. I just I I thought I'd love to do that, but I didn't know that one could. And um when I finally joined the youth theatre and they said to me, Well, have I thought about going to drama school? lady called Kay Doudney.

Michael Ball13:32

It suddenly kind of clicked. Literally, almost overnight, I went into the environment I knew I needed to be in and I wanted to be in.

Presenter13:40

And when you graduated, you saw an advert for this open audition for the Pirates of Penzance, and you went along with how many hundreds of people

Michael Ball13:46

This there was six hundred.

Presenter13:47

We're all standing in a line.

Michael Ball13:48

Standing in a line. You have three huge rooms, so you have your dance audition, your acting audition, and your singing audition. It was a cattle call, proper cattle call. And I ended up with this lead role in The Pirates with Paul Nicholas playing The Pirate King. Bonnie Langford was Mabel. Victor Spinetti, do you know Victor Spinetti? He was our.

Presenter14:09

Yeah.

Michael Ball14:10

Major General Dillis Leigh was in it as well, and it was.

Michael Ball14:15

A dream. I mean, an unbelievable experience.

Presenter14:18

An extraordinary set of circumstances to be bang fresh out of drama college and go straight into professional production of that standard. Absolutely.

Michael Ball14:19

Yeah.

Michael Ball14:23

It's just professional.

Michael Ball14:24

Yeah.

Presenter14:25

What did your appearance make of me?

Michael Ball14:26

They were as proud as was humanly possible, I think. I think they were so relieved, first of all.

Michael Ball14:34

Secretly, they thought I was going to be a bit of a worry. You know, I was never actually going to find my way through life.

Presenter14:42

Why did they think that? Because of what had happened at school.

Michael Ball14:44

Yeah, at school and at college. And I was a drop out and I was quite badly behaved. In what respect? I don't know if I should well, you know, I used to indulge in stuff. Right. You know, as kids do. Right. Well, you know, you

Presenter14:49

Respect.

Michael Ball14:58

You know what I'm saying here, Steve? I'm not ain't gonna spell it out.

Presenter14:59

Per step anonym.

Presenter15:01

What do you mean? You mean like booze and soft drugs and all that sort of thing.

Michael Ball15:01

What do you mean?

Michael Ball15:03

Yeah, soft drugs, and all that sort of thing. And it really was without direction, without and.

Michael Ball15:09

And I needed something, I really badly needed something.

Presenter15:12

It happens with a lot of actors and performers, doesn't it? That they shape up for when they're on stage and when things are demanded of them.

Michael Ball15:13

Doesn't it?

Michael Ball15:15

I don't quite know why I'm so coy about talking about I suppose I I suppose I'm a bit protective about uh an image, I suppose. But I I am quite coy about talking about uh the things that I did because I don't want just that going back to that thing, you don't want people to think badly of you.

Presenter15:32

Right.

Michael Ball15:33

But the two, you can't do the both. You can do it when you're mucking around. You can't do it when you're working. And I learnt that really quickly.

Presenter15:42

And so for your parents that was a relief'cause when you were working you were behaving yourself.

Michael Ball15:43

And you were working behaving as well. Yeah, and I was loving it and I didn't think about doing anything else.

Presenter15:48

In your twenties then, you were catapulted into this. I mean, I'll look at the list here. I've just been looking at it just now. Les Mise, Phantom, Aspects of Love, these huge blockbusters.

Michael Ball15:51

Um to the

Michael Ball15:56

Here.

Presenter15:58

How did that feel? Was there any sense of nerves? Did you th you know, there must be this huge engine sort of driving a production like that forward. There you are at the front of it. That takes a degree of

Michael Ball16:05

Yeah.

Presenter16:10

Self-possession and maturity were.

Michael Ball16:11

What happened with me, I went from Pirates into Les Mais and I was as green as I was cabbage looking. I really I didn't know I was born. And it was

Michael Ball16:24

Magical, and I didn't have a nerve in my body because I hadn't had anything test me.

Michael Ball16:31

And what happened with Les Miz is I got ill. I got glandular fever on a nucleosis, which started off with awful tonsillitis, so I couldn't sing on stage. Then when I went back, I kind of, I think, had the the the post viral syndrome.

Michael Ball16:46

And I was exhausted.

Presenter16:47

I want to talk much more about this because it's so interesting. But before we do, tell me about your next piece of music.

Michael Ball16:48

Yeah.

Michael Ball16:53

Okay. All through this time while I was at college, while I was at drama school, one person who I listen to constantly, who I still listen to constantly, who I think is the greatest singer songwriter ever, is Joni Mitchell. This one, merely because I can kind of inv it it it pictures up me skipping along the beach.

Michael Ball17:12

There are I could have taken any of hers, Joni Mitchell's Carrie.

Presenter17:15

The wind is in Vermont, recall Last night I couldn't sleep. Oh, you know it sure is hard to leave you, Carrie, but it's really nice.

Speaker 217:26

Not my home.

Speaker 217:29

My fingernails are filthy, I've got beach tar on my feet And I miss my clean white linen And my fancy French clothes Oh Carrie, get out, you can

Presenter17:43

Joni Mitchell and Carrie, as you say, it could have been one of any Joni Mitchell there. That really got you going. And you were about to tell us about this sort of descent. Yes, you were saying you had this glandular fever and that then escalated and you had to take six, seven weeks off.

Speaker 417:47

But do you think Yeah.

Michael Ball17:50

But this sort of dissent.

Michael Ball17:53

Yeah, and that's an

Michael Ball17:55

And you

Michael Ball17:56

Six, seven weeks, I came back to work and I came back still feeling ill with this kind of post viral syndrome. And I had my first panic attack on stage. It was the it was the most appalling feeling I've ever had.

Presenter18:10

Can you try and just

Michael Ball18:11

Like, yeah, your heart starts racing, you get tunnel vision, there's pounding in your ears, you break out into a sweat and you just it's the the fight or flight feeling. It's like a surge of adrenaline and everything about it is awful. All of this happening in a couple of seconds.

Presenter18:11

Yeah.

Presenter18:25

Did people around you know it was happening?

Michael Ball18:26

I think people very close to me could absolutely could see there was something wrong.

Presenter18:30

But the audience would appear

Michael Ball18:30

You were going through the motion. And all kinds of stuff you know, you think you honestly think you're dying. And I started going into this this descent of of terrible depression and panic attacks happening, not just on the stage. I'd I'd go into the tube on the way into work.

Presenter18:32

Yeah.

Michael Ball18:48

And I'd just cross over the station and come back and phone in and say I can't come in. I didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't and I think because of that whole thing of um not being able to open up and not to share through uh the boarding school era, I wouldn't talk about it. I simply wouldn't.

Michael Ball19:08

Let myself appear vulnerable. It was perfectly obvious to everyone I was cracking up, but I wouldn't share it.

Presenter19:13

Presumably, apart from the professional people taking care of you, you would have had I I would guess an agent and obviously the the director of the show. Also your parents must have known you were taking time off work.

Michael Ball19:23

Yeah.

Presenter19:24

And they just

Michael Ball19:25

just felt terribly sorry for me.

Michael Ball19:27

I lived on my own and I cut I just cut myself off. It was a complete breakdown physically and mentally really.

Presenter19:33

How did you begin to make sense of it?

Michael Ball19:36

By spending a lot of time on my own

Michael Ball19:39

In the flat, and to the point where I didn't even want to go outside of the front door.

Presenter19:43

So you're agrophobic.

Michael Ball19:44

Yeah. It was just anybody looking at me.

Michael Ball19:48

And me being a centre of attention. I just wanted to disappear.

Michael Ball19:53

And I I did that for about nine months. I'd walked out of Les Miz, I walked out of the greatest show imaginable, one of the best parts for a juvenile. I just said to them, I simply can't do this, I have to leave.

Michael Ball20:06

And made up my mind to give it all up. I thought I'll never perform again, ever.

Presenter20:11

Why would it be that you wouldn't seek professional help? Because it was not just a case of your own mental health deteriorating. You were also kissing goodbye to what was the beginning of this extraordinary career.

Michael Ball20:17

Yeah.

Michael Ball20:20

The beginning of

Michael Ball20:22

I I really can't answer that, Kirsty. I yeah, I can only assume it's because I just didn't want to appear like anything other than everything was all right.

Michael Ball20:31

Ostensibly I seemed

Michael Ball20:33

Very open and positive, but the actual truth was, I found it very difficult to.

Michael Ball20:40

to really open up.

Presenter20:41

Let's take a break for some music.

Michael Ball20:43

Hear ourselves up, shall we?

Michael Ball20:46

What have you got? I've got well, you might think this is mad, but it's sailing by. And the reason it's there is wherever you are in the world, whatever whatever you've been doing, if you hear this music,

Michael Ball20:59

Everything seems all right, everything seems okay, and if I'm stuck on this desert island, then I know I'm going to be happy.

Michael Ball22:04

North Woodsira, South Woodsira.

Presenter22:07

That was the B V C concert orchestra and sailing by. Isn't it lovely? Beautiful. Now, Michael Ball, you sit opposite me, so apparently cheerful and together, but you've just been describing this period where you plumbed the depths of despair. How did you begin to rebuild yourself? Because you did do it yourself. You didn't seek therapy like doctors.

Michael Ball22:22

Yeah.

Presenter22:24

Uh

Michael Ball22:24

Uh

Presenter22:24

Nope.

Michael Ball22:24

Nope. Um

Presenter22:25

Uh

Michael Ball22:25

Uh

Presenter22:25

Uh

Michael Ball22:25

It so happened that uh Miss England contest was being shown by Thames Television and wanted someone to do the cabaret while they were counting up the votes, and it was actually going to be shown on telly. And would I come and sing a song?

Presenter22:39

So this would be live. It runs off millions of

Michael Ball22:40

It was fantastic. I don't know if millions watched the Missingdon contest, but a significant amount. Yeah, because there's only three channels there. I suppose they probably did.

Presenter22:44

Yeah.

Michael Ball22:48

And I went on. I had pins and needles down'cause my o I'd I'd seized up, my whole body had seized up, pins and needles shooting down my hands. But I did it. And it wasn't a particularly good performance, but I watched it back and I went, No one would have known.

Michael Ball23:05

No one would have known I can do this. I'll never allow myself to feel that bad.

Michael Ball23:10

And at the same time

Michael Ball23:12

God bless him, Cameron McIntosh phoned because I'd walked out of Les Miz and he was they were recasting Phantom of the Opera. Michael Crawford and Steve Barton were leaving to go and do it on Broadway. Now Cameron's a canny man.

Michael Ball23:27

And he just said to me, This is the right thing for you to do. You're playing the romantic hero, but all pressure is on the guy who's taken over from Michael Crawford.

Michael Ball23:37

Trust me, it's the right thing to do.

Presenter23:39

Does it ever come back?

Michael Ball23:40

Yeah, it does. Yeah, not often. And it comes back when I'm not well.

Michael Ball23:45

But now I can control it. I know how to do it. So it it won't have I'm not I'm not ignorant about it.

Presenter23:52

As you've just said, you're you're playing eight shows a week just now. We've just heard that you're about to take over from Michael Parkinson on Radio Two doing his Sunday show. You've done many recordings, I'm sure, have the intention of doing many more. You guessed on television. I mean, you must have the constitution of an audience.

Michael Ball23:57

Mute.

Michael Ball24:02

What

Michael Ball24:05

Absolutely not. No, I just sleep a lot. I'm not a party animal. I love being at home. You know, one of the reasons that I got out of.

Michael Ball24:14

The cycle when I went into aspects of love was because I met

Michael Ball24:18

A fabulous woman, um, Cathy, and we've been we've been together for seventeen years.

Presenter24:23

This is Cathy McLaughlin, who had her own moment in the sun in terms of her career in the 1960s.

Michael Ball24:23

Yeah.

Michael Ball24:25

Did the sun in turn

Michael Ball24:27

Far outshining anything I've just in every paper on everybody. She was a cool girl. Yeah, everyone wanted to be. So she came to interview me when we were doing Aspect. I was doing Aspects of Love. And she wasn't absolutely not looking for anybody. Certainly not someone like me. I wasn't. Why do you say certainly not? I was still pretty mixed up at that time. I'd done Phantom. I'd gone into Aspects. I was a kid.

Presenter24:30

Ready go

Presenter24:32

She was a cool girl.

Presenter24:46

And you've got someone like me.

Michael Ball24:54

She's 15 years older than you. I don't know why it happened.

Michael Ball24:59

We just started talking. We like this. She came to interview and then it stopped being a job and we carried on talking. And then we had to phone each other that night. And then she had to come to the opening night. And then sh and we just I don't know. I don't know why it happened. It I said she just stalked me and finally

Michael Ball25:19

Won me. But it was the greatest thing that happened. She completely sorted my life out.

Presenter25:23

It is still unusual for men to be with women who are a little older than them. Has it ever been an issue for you? Was it when you met her?

Michael Ball25:26

Yeah, yeah.

Michael Ball25:30

Not at all. I mean, have you seen her? She's she's beaut I mean, she's beautiful. She'd had uh uh I have a a stepdaughter, Emma. So she'd had her family.

Michael Ball25:40

And I I don't think I probably could have had a relationship as as profound as this, and it certainly wouldn't like with anyone other than her.

Presenter25:49

Tell me about your next piece of the

Michael Ball25:50

Which is uh yeah, well the next uh song is by Garth Brooks. And when we were in America our song became a Garth Brooks song, which is If Tanar Morrow Never Comes. But I didn't want to play that one. I didn't want to take that one with me. And this is The Dance by Garth Brooks and quite often we do.

Speaker 226:08

Looking back.

Speaker 226:12

All the memory of

Speaker 226:16

The dance we share

Speaker 226:19

Beneath the stars above

Speaker 226:23

Foreman.

Speaker 226:26

All the world was awry.

Speaker 226:30

How could I have known?

Speaker 226:33

That you'd ever say good

Presenter26:37

Garce Brooks and the Dance Chosen because it's a song that you love because you shared it with your partner.

Michael Ball26:41

I really like that sort of new country music sound. It's sort of closer you get to a theatricality. You know, they're always telling stories, they always wear their heart on their sleeves. And I won't get bored of that song.

Presenter26:52

You were talking about Kathy, Kathy McGowan, your partner just before that. And one of the things that you say, and I've seen it in interviews quite often, is you say, you know, she saved me.

Michael Ball26:57

Yeah.

Michael Ball27:00

Hmm.

Presenter27:01

I wonder what you mean by that.

Michael Ball27:02

Yeah, why did she

Michael Ball27:03

I think from myself, really, I think I could have easily gone off the rails. Doing what?

Michael Ball27:10

I w I was I was a bit of a party freak and I

Michael Ball27:14

definitely hit a point where I I chose to turn my back on a lifestyle and have a life with Kathy.

Presenter27:21

And she also quite literally saved your life.

Michael Ball27:23

Oh yeah, in the fire. Absolutely. That was hard. That was just.

Presenter27:24

Tell me.

Michael Ball27:28

She still has nightmares about it. I don't remember it. Uh it was just before Christmas, must be two thousand and one, I think it was. We'd been out on the town, we'd been to a party, came back, she went to bed, I stayed up and had a a couple of whiskies, went in into the spare room, she had a cold.

Michael Ball27:46

When she woke up the house was on fire.

Michael Ball27:49

She didn't know why I wasn't in the bed. Uh all the lights had blown in the house, and she was coughing and choking. She thought I was in my study. It was about half three and four o'clock in the morning. She thought I'd fallen asleep in there. She opened the study door and the flames came out.

Michael Ball28:03

Then she thought, maybe he's gone into Emma's room, into the spare room. She ran upstairs, in the pitch black, with all this black smoke, and I was in bed, and I'd had the whisky, and I'd also taken some night nurse, so I was gone.

Michael Ball28:16

And she couldn't wake me up, but finally got me out, dragged me out of the house, then ran back in and got the dog.

Michael Ball28:23

And the the house was and just before Chr Christmas the house was ruined. Um we never moved back in there. There was an electrical fire started in my study, so all my memories went. All the pictures, all the videos, all the books, all that stuff.

Michael Ball28:39

And it with it was a great eye eye-opener because that stuff doesn't mean anything. You know, I was all right, she was all right, dog was all right, so.

Presenter28:48

You do consciously lead a very, very private life with her, which is very interesting because you are a very mainstream star. And yet we have never seen it around the lovely Cotswold country, the treat of Michael Ball. We have never seen his second honeymoon in Hawaii, where he celebrates his fifteen years of love. I mean, those are very mainstream things to do these days. There's a whole industry based on that.

Michael Ball28:50

Life was

Michael Ball28:54

Hmm.

Michael Ball28:59

So the Michael Ball

Michael Ball29:08

Based on that. That's actually quite different, I think, from press.

Presenter29:29

From the consumption of your life as another aspect of your profession.

Michael Ball29:30

Your life as another aspect of your profession. Absolutely. Because fans, I think, only want the best. And I I can't bear as well lazy journalism. Journalists that will just write down things like Housewives Favorite or appealing to the Blue Rinse Brigade. It's just lazy, it's rude, and it's

Michael Ball29:48

you know, it's it and I avoid it.

Presenter29:51

Tell me about your next piece of music.

Michael Ball29:52

Okay.

Michael Ball29:54

Theatre.

Presenter29:55

Hmm.

Michael Ball29:55

Campers Christmas. I thought I've got to have something in there from the theatre and if I'm on my desert island and I'm going to have to have my fix then I need lots of it so it's an overture. It's the best overture to one of the best shows Gypsy and we'll only be able to hear a little bit of it but there are about 12 songs all of which are gangbusters and that you could scream your head off to and I will.

Presenter30:48

That was the over

Presenter30:50

You're giggling, Cuz. I am, yes, well because you were throwing your basque across the room there, apparently. The overture to Gypsy from the original Broadwaycast recording, 1959, that was recorded. In the introduction, very deliberately I used this quote, one of the great intelligent singing artists today. Now that's Nicholas Kenyon who said that about you, and he is the man who for many years has run the proms, and he chose you to sing at the proms. And a lot of people thought that wasn't quite the thing, to have Michael Paul say he was the prom.

Michael Ball31:13

The problem

Michael Ball31:17

I was responsible probably for global warming and the war in Afghanistan. And do you know what? We all got over it. It's a shame that there is an attitude like that. And I know exactly what you're saying. I think it's been down to me to keep pounding away and to change people's ideas. I know with what I'm doing now, nobody anticipated me going into hairspray. And it's a role I absolutely wanted to do. I was desperate to do it, having seen it five years ago.

Presenter31:48

And this is where you play this middle-aged woman. Middle-aged. You wear a fat suit every night. Housewife, indeed. So you've got the big hair, you've got the makeup on.

Michael Ball31:50

You wear a fat suit every night

Speaker 431:51

Bye. Uh

Michael Ball31:52

Swap

Michael Ball31:53

So you go.

Michael Ball31:54

You got the makeup on. Yeah, the fact she starts as as a a frumpy munter who's agoraphobic and blossoms into this extraordinary butterfly.

Presenter32:04

You say that she is a an agoraphobic frump to begin with.

Michael Ball32:08

I didn't identify with her either though.

Presenter32:11

I'm wondering about that though. I'm wondering about do you know the the parallels

Michael Ball32:15

Absolutely. That's that's uh totally an image I had of myself. You know, I struggle with weight, but yeah, I completely identify with that that sort of side.

Presenter32:26

Do you ever think I mean it is it it's had the most extraordinary uh reviews, you got packed houses, d do you think about those years before when you were sitting in your flat, unable to even open the front door?

Michael Ball32:35

Um, yeah, I but I've done that enough. Nothing will ever take me back back to that place, God willing. I'll know the warning side, and I would no longer be scared of asking for help. That's the most important lesson I've learnt in my life.

Presenter32:49

I'm sending you away, of course, to a desert island, where you are going to be on your own, whether you like it or not.

Michael Ball32:53

Yeah.

Michael Ball32:54

I'll be fine.

Presenter32:54

Will ya?

Michael Ball32:55

I think so. Uh my problem would be boredom and occupying my time. That's the only drag for me, so which is why I've tried to find music that isn't going to uh get on my nerves after a while.

Michael Ball33:10

But as far as being on my own, as long as I've got stuff to keep me occupied, I'll be okay. I mustn't dwell.

Presenter33:15

Tell me about your final piece of music then before we do

Michael Ball33:17

Okay, the final piece of music is oh

Michael Ball33:20

I really thought long and hard about all of these songs and I remembered this track. It's still one of my favorite tracks from a Super Tramp album. Now I'm not a massive Super Tramp fan, but this track, all the words

Michael Ball33:34

Just resonated with me, and they kind of summed it all up down to the very last line. Please don't let the curtain fall.

Presenter33:44

Be a chance and we can save this joke.

Michael Ball33:53

Who'll be the last clown?

Speaker 233:55

Uh

Michael Ball33:57

Ring the house?

Speaker 233:58

Down, oh, now.

Speaker 234:01

Please no.

Speaker 234:04

Don't let the curtain fall.

Presenter34:11

Super tramp, and if everyone was listening. And so, I'm going to give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. And you'd like to take another book. What would you like?

Michael Ball34:19

Um, I'm a real fan of graphic novels, and so I want the Sandman series, Neil Gaiman's The Sandman series, brilliantly illustrated, great stories, and I won't get bored of it.

Presenter34:31

Okay, and a luxury.

Michael Ball34:34

So we're not allowed computers, we're not allowed anything that can contact with the outside world.

Presenter34:38

Nothing useful with the mm.

Michael Ball34:39

Nothing useful. Well, it's going to be alcohol then. I'd like all of the output from either Cloudy Bay or Saint Clair in the Marlborough district of New Zealand.

Presenter34:48

You may have that. Is that all right? Any particular vintage, just any other thing they don't want. No, it's really not.

Michael Ball34:49

Is that the world?

Michael Ball34:51

No, it's really not the Sauvignon Blanc, preferably, rather than the um the the Chardonnay from Cloudy Bay.

Presenter34:57

You may have it all, and even a glass to drink it in. That would be perfect. And if you had to save just one disc, which one would it be?

Michael Ball35:04

Oh, I really don't know. Either sailing by, or if everyone was listening, I'll say sailing by. I love it.

Presenter35:09

I love it.

Presenter35:10

Michael Ball, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Michael Ball35:13

My pleasure.

Presenter35:21

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.