Oleg Gordievsky

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Presenter0:08

The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand eight.

Presenter0:26

My castaway this week is Oleg Gordievsky. He is the highest ranking KGB officer ever to work as a double agent for the British. For more than a decade his undercover work gave an unprecedented insight into the nature of the Soviet threat. But his contribution has come at some considerable personal cost. His courage and scruples wrecked his marriage and damaged his relationship with his children. He lives, too, with the knowledge that even now in Russia there is a warrant for his death.

Presenter0:56

Oleg Gordievski, can we go back to 1968? You were a KGB agent working undercover as apparently a Soviet diplomat in Copenhagen, and after years of disenchantment you decided that you were going to actively undermine the Soviet system. What did you take the decision to do?

Oleg Gordievsky1:19

It was certainly the invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Soviet Union and other Communist countries. It was so outrageous that I decided now it is the end, and I'll stop working for this criminal, awful regime.

Presenter1:36

And so in nineteen sixty eight, when you decided to take this enormous personal step, what was it you did to make it known to the British that you may be somebody who was available to them?

Oleg Gordievsky1:47

Yes, I um made a telephone call to my wife.

Oleg Gordievsky1:51

when I expressed my outrage. I knew the telephone was listened to by the Danes. They would immediately to tell the British about them.

Oleg Gordievsky2:01

My attitude?

Oleg Gordievsky2:03

And they will pay more attention to me.

Presenter2:04

More

Presenter2:06

So it was in this telephone call that the seeds were planted, but it would of course be many years before you were in a position to start feeding useful information to Britain. Last summer, very interestingly, the work that you did over all these years was officially recognised through the honours system. You were made a companion of the most distinguished order of St Michael and St George. And I'm wondering what that meant to you.

Oleg Gordievsky2:30

I waited for twenty two years after it, which is a bit too long, better long than never. I always felt that I was very close to the security service, intelligence service and the foreign office. But I was never in touch with the palace. And now I was in the palace and the queen received me, gave me the decoration, spoke to me.

Presenter2:55

What did she say to you?

Oleg Gordievsky2:57

I don't remember exactly what she said to me because I was so excited, but I think she said, How do you feel? Are you okay here now?

Oleg Gordievsky3:05

I said, yes, I'm okay, thank you very much. And it was nice.

Presenter3:11

Tell me then, Ulek, about your first piece of music today.

Oleg Gordievsky3:14

Um the Pers p uh First of all music is one of the best, the the loveliest pieces of music by Mozart and uh many people will recognize that piece.

Presenter4:17

The opening of the second movement of Mozart's Piano Concerto No. twenty three in A, performed by Alfred Brendel with the Academy of Saint Martin in the Fields, conducted by Sir Neville Mariner. It is very difficult, being born and brought up in the West, to imagine

Presenter4:34

the impression that a totalitarian regime leaves upon the personality of a child, of a family. You have a very interesting phrase, a striking phrase y that you use, homo sovieticus. Explain to me what that means.

Oleg Gordievsky4:48

Homo Seriaticus is a man which was created by the regime of Stalin. And uh Homo Seriaticus has got a different um mentality, different behavior, different attitude to everything which is in the West. Distorted, distorted and um unpleasant and very poorly behaved in nearly in all

Presenter5:11

So explain to me then, as a as a little boy, growing up, what impression did it have upon you, upon your mother, your father? Your father had had worked at a at a low level for the KGP, as that

Oleg Gordievsky5:23

Yeah, at a low level at the KGB. And he was dedicated not to so much to the KGB, but to the party.

Oleg Gordievsky5:30

There was a cult of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union by my mother because she was a housewife.

Oleg Gordievsky5:37

She was not exposed to the influence of the official propaganda, and she was sometimes was saying things

Oleg Gordievsky5:44

Which even me, mere child, made shudder.

Oleg Gordievsky5:49

It was sound, normal, Russian present attitude.

Presenter5:54

How aware were you growing up as a little boy of the West, of the Otherworld? Were you aware of it at all?

Oleg Gordievsky6:00

Coal?

Oleg Gordievsky6:01

Uh in the West, first it was very critical on propaganda attacks on the West. And then when I was a boy, it's about twelve.

Oleg Gordievsky6:11

I started to pick up Voice of America in Russian.

Oleg Gordievsky6:15

And it was very, very useful for me. These outside influences, they formed me all the time. So that's why I became different. That's why it became

Oleg Gordievsky6:26

so outraged when I saw the Berlin Wall being erected. That's why I was outraged about Czechoslovakia. So it's all influenced me.

Presenter6:36

Tell me then about your second piece of music.

Oleg Gordievsky6:40

Fyodor Shalapin is the most famous Russian singer.

Oleg Gordievsky6:45

And he was a really very Russian man, his voice, his behavior, his dignity, his pride.

Oleg Gordievsky6:55

So he read part of the Russian history, and he sang both Western areas but mo many very good Russian songs and romances.

Speaker 47:21

Modernity

Presenter7:37

Fyodor Shalyappin and the Song of the Volga Boatmen. So, Oleg, you were born a year before the start of the Second World War. T tell me about home life. I mean, what was the house like?

Oleg Gordievsky7:49

My house as a little boy, we lived like all people in the cities in Russia. Two, three families in one apartment.

Oleg Gordievsky7:59

It was father, mother, brother and me, in one room.

Oleg Gordievsky8:03

And a kitchen for three families.

Oleg Gordievsky8:06

In the bathroom, I think there was a bathroom. I'm not sure.

Oleg Gordievsky8:10

Also for three families, it was a lie.

Presenter8:13

And is it indeed the case that you remember seeing German prisoners paraded through the streets of Moscow at the time?

Oleg Gordievsky8:18

Yes, when in 1943 it was the first demonstration of the German

Oleg Gordievsky8:24

Prisoners of war to the streets of Moscow.

Oleg Gordievsky8:28

And the Germans

Oleg Gordievsky8:29

They were so pathetic.

Oleg Gordievsky8:31

They were so human.

Oleg Gordievsky8:34

There was some normal.

Oleg Gordievsky8:36

People, many people felt sympathy for them.

Oleg Gordievsky8:39

It showed the Germans are like us.

Presenter8:42

And what about you as a schoolboy? You came from a relatively modest background, as you've described, but you were a very bright boy. You had a a great facility with languages. You were offered a place at a prestigious Moscow University. When were you actually

Oleg Gordievsky8:48

Yeah.

Presenter8:57

Were you approached by the KGB? Did you make it known to the KGB that you would be interested in working for them once you'd finished your studies?

Oleg Gordievsky9:04

Yes, it's a very good question, very typical for the Western person, what you are asking now. Because people don't realize that in each Russian university there is one at least one or several KGB officers attached to the university for all the time.

Oleg Gordievsky9:24

And they s firstly, they supervise the s behavior of the students. Are they loyal? Are they okay? And what are their potential professional abilities? And they uh the KGB actually, not the university, was sending the students to the jobs.

Presenter9:45

I see. I can understand exactly why you would be an attractive proposition for the KGB. I'm wondering why they would be to you as a proposition.

Oleg Gordievsky9:55

One organization. The KGB is a conglomerate.

Oleg Gordievsky9:59

And uh I was thinking only about the intelligence service.

Oleg Gordievsky10:03

And the intelligence service was relatively small. At that time it was it had probably only si six thousand. Well in the KGB there are half a million.

Oleg Gordievsky10:14

I want wanting to have a kind of a diplomatic job.

Oleg Gordievsky10:19

But important diplomatic job.

Oleg Gordievsky10:23

With intelligence a kind of a contest.

Presenter10:26

Yeah.

Oleg Gordievsky10:26

Tell me about your

Presenter10:26

Next piece of music, then, Oleg.

Oleg Gordievsky10:28

Birgett Nielsen, who is a fantastic singer,

Oleg Gordievsky10:33

Sings an Add by Wagner

Oleg Gordievsky10:36

which one of the most profound

Oleg Gordievsky10:39

and philosophical.

Oleg Gordievsky10:41

and complicated pieces.

Oleg Gordievsky10:44

To choose to sing it and to sing like she does, it is a great achievement.

Presenter11:51

Birgit Nielsson singing Milt und Leis vie Ehrlecht How Gently and Quietly He Smiles from the end of Wagner's Tristan and Isolde.

Presenter11:59

It was then, Oleg Gordievski, in the mid nineteen sixties that you were finally given this overseas posting to Copenhagen. Do you remember your first impressions of it as a city?

Oleg Gordievsky12:10

It was a culture shock.

Oleg Gordievsky12:12

It was the beautiful European city, with wonderful uh libraries, universities, colleges.

Oleg Gordievsky12:19

I was so so deeply impressed that I started doing everything which I was able to do, like going to the library and taking b bags, plastic bags of books, because there was no limitation. I immediately joined free

Oleg Gordievsky12:35

Courses

Oleg Gordievsky12:37

Which were organized in Copenhagen. Book binding and uh languages and uh that and that.

Presenter12:44

It sounds as if you started to live your life, if you like, in colour, from living a rather bleak black and white life in Moscow. Suddenly you were living your life in colour. I'm wondering if.

Presenter12:55

Your spy masters, the people who were watching you, were wondering at the way that you were embracing this Western culture. Did they ever wonder, do you think, were they watching?

Oleg Gordievsky13:05

Firstly, you're absolutely right. It was like coming from the grey, dark, dirty environment of the Soviet Union into a light colour.

Oleg Gordievsky13:16

Beauty, you're right. But the still the impression.

Oleg Gordievsky13:21

All other people of the KGB, they all had that impression.

Oleg Gordievsky13:25

So it was the n normal.

Presenter13:27

And when did you start meeting with British agents and passing information to them?

Oleg Gordievsky13:33

In Denmark I cooperated um from seventy four to seventy eight, four years. It was of course all very full of of adventure because we are hiding.

Oleg Gordievsky13:44

and the British were hiding from the KGB.

Presenter13:46

You say there it it was exciting. I'm wondering what the percentage was of of excitement and fear, because presumably fear must have been in the mix, too, that uh you were going to be found out.

Oleg Gordievsky13:59

In the first uh two years there was no fear.

Oleg Gordievsky14:03

Because I thought I'm fighting for freedom.

Oleg Gordievsky14:06

And then in the last two m years.

Oleg Gordievsky14:08

It was firstly rumors about leakage, leakage, leakage in the center, from the center, from Moscow. And secondly, I started to obtain documents, KGB documents, taking them out of the embassy. It was very dangerous because when I was leaving the embassy, when I was returning to the embassy, I could be caught or searched.

Oleg Gordievsky14:31

Of course. And it was like a death sentence.

Presenter14:32

Course.

Presenter14:37

Tell me then about your next piece of music.

Oleg Gordievsky14:40

Marlene Dietrichem is an anti-fascist, brilliant singer. She was fighting on the Allied side.

Oleg Gordievsky14:49

Her songs were so

Oleg Gordievsky14:51

Warm for the soul.

Oleg Gordievsky14:53

that nearly all are beautiful, and I f found one which I regard as the most beautiful and nicest nicest of all of them.

Speaker 315:03

Peter, he shop kinda cigarettes.

Speaker 315:09

Vaspra Peter?

Speaker 315:12

Brings me show.

Speaker 315:18

Peter, Peter, come to me at Silver.

Speaker 315:28

Peter, petal.

Presenter15:32

Marlena Dietrich and Peter. So it was in nineteen eighty two that you finally arrived in Britain, Oleg. By this time you were married for the second time and you had two very young children. Given your family set up, did you ever reconsider whether or not you should carry on working under cover for the British?

Oleg Gordievsky15:52

It was impossible.

Oleg Gordievsky15:53

We achieved so much.

Oleg Gordievsky15:56

I became a very important source for the British intelligence, the most important source for the British intelligence. I wanted to sh to finish soon because I was terribly tired.

Oleg Gordievsky16:08

like three after three, four years. And then I will I will rest.

Presenter16:12

I wonder you say it was impossible. Was it impossible because you felt that you still had important work to do, or was it impossible because the British would not have let you stop?

Oleg Gordievsky16:22

No, because I have had the f feeling of duty.

Oleg Gordievsky16:26

I had a feeling of duty towards the British. The British did so so much in order to promote me, to help me, to explain things to me.

Presenter16:35

Tell me, did your wife know that you were working for the British?

Oleg Gordievsky16:38

No, she didn't.

Oleg Gordievsky16:41

It was impossible. Homo savieticus. Homo Savietikus who b should run to the K.

Oleg Gordievsky16:48

There was n no chance to cooperate with wife who is the mother of your lovely children, but it is impossible to be on confidential relations.

Presenter16:59

Did you ever have a dark night of the soul when you wondered whether you should tell her, or was it always the case that there was no doubt in your mind that she must never know?

Oleg Gordievsky17:08

No, there was no doubt at at all. Because I I was intelligent and educated enough to understand what it means, if I ever mention it.

Oleg Gordievsky17:19

I I'm finished. I'm finished.

Presenter17:21

Tell me about those early days of coming to London. How did you make contact with your handlers in the early days? What happened?

Oleg Gordievsky17:28

Over the in London was very simple. I went with the nearest telephone.

Oleg Gordievsky17:32

And what I did I hear?

Oleg Gordievsky17:35

Welcome, Olik, in London. We've been waiting for you.

Presenter17:38

This was recorded message.

Oleg Gordievsky17:40

No, no, there were girls sitting all the time.

Presenter17:44

Pure.

Oleg Gordievsky17:44

Great if I will come.

Presenter17:44

Boys

Oleg Gordievsky17:45

Incredible how the service w worked

Oleg Gordievsky17:48

And um please come to the hotel um such and such day at four o'clock and you will be met. There was my old officer from uh Denmark.

Oleg Gordievsky18:03

He is now head of the British Intell Intelligence Service.

Presenter18:06

So this is this is John Scarlett.

Oleg Gordievsky18:08

Is it just colour?

Presenter18:09

Scarlett. Head of MI6. Yeah. And at this time he was working directly with him. What sort of character was he? Is he?

Oleg Gordievsky18:13

Yes, yes.

Oleg Gordievsky18:17

Yes, he was a wonderful character, because he was very humane. But apart from it, he understood everything. For example, he made the plan of the escape

Oleg Gordievsky18:28

in case I would be caught by the KGB.

Oleg Gordievsky18:32

Simple, clear, fantastic.

Oleg Gordievsky18:35

And it helped, because according to that plan I escaped.

Presenter18:38

Yeah.

Presenter18:39

We shall talk about your extraordinary escape in just a minute. For now, though, tell me about your next piece of music.

Oleg Gordievsky18:47

I actually uh like modern and super modern avant-garde music. And people don't understand me because nobody likes avant-garde music. But for me it is like reading a book about which you never heard about. And here it's something new, different, fresh.

Oleg Gordievsky19:09

There just listen.

Presenter20:07

Claude L. Fair performing Janis Stanikis's Germa. So you were acting head of the Soviet Bureau in London. It was may nineteen eighty five, and you were, Oleg, ordered back to Moscow. When you told your British handlers that you were being summoned back to Moscow, presumably

Presenter20:25

Well, they must have given you the choice to say, to say now is the moment for you to step over the line and become one of us in the open.

Oleg Gordievsky20:32

Did they know? Yes, they said you're the person who is uh the most experienced. You know your system. You decide. You're free to stay if you prefer to go.

Oleg Gordievsky20:43

go. Are you interested that I go? And they said, Yes, we are very interested with what we will say about England. I said, Okay, you want me to g uh to die? All right, I will die for you. I d I will die for Britain.

Oleg Gordievsky20:57

So I went. And as soon as

Presenter20:59

Oleg, you say that in such a matter of fact way. Okay, I will die for you, I will die for Britain. What was occurring to you at the time? Can you cast yourself back and actually remember how you felt?

Oleg Gordievsky21:10

It was how I felt, but I didn't say then that they are going to die for you, because it would be be very immodest.

Oleg Gordievsky21:17

Frankly speaking, what's happening is with the trap. I go to the trap.

Oleg Gordievsky21:21

So it is was a suicidal move by men.

Presenter21:24

Why did you feel that passion for Britain? Why did you feel that you would be willing to put your very life on the line for Britain?

Oleg Gordievsky21:31

Because stiff upper lip.

Oleg Gordievsky21:33

I thought I should be a courageous man, courageous. So I will go and they will regret it. But we will know that people Russian people like me, they are dedicated to the Western values, and it's very important.

Oleg Gordievsky21:49

And so you travelled home? So I travelled home, and from the start it was clear it was a trap. I was uh brought to a house which looked like a spy uh cottage. Two very sensed men came.

Oleg Gordievsky22:04

I realized I was finished. I was finished. Only a few weeks left for me to live.

Presenter22:10

There is one very important thing that that I haven't asked you, which is, of course, as you embarked on that journey and you were

Presenter22:17

aware, more than aware, of the possibility that it could end in your death, you left at home your children and your wife at home at your home in London. How did how did you feel about that?

Oleg Gordievsky22:27

Yes, it was one week, one week before they were evacuated from London. So they had to come.

Oleg Gordievsky22:34

And they came and they said, Oh, wonderful first class There was such attention paid to us I said, Gosh attention paid to to them.

Presenter22:47

And so y your then wife and your children travelled away out of Moscow? They did they go to Adacha, they went on holiday?

Oleg Gordievsky22:52

And then went to the little uh little very cozy house in the Caucasian mountains. And uh at that time I I had to flee because it was the only opening for me when I was able to leave Moscow without being botched by anybody.

Presenter23:10

So, as you say, you knew that you had a window, a very small window, of just a matter of a few weeks to get out of the city.

Oleg Gordievsky23:16

Yeah.

Presenter23:16

Yeah.

Oleg Gordievsky23:17

Before you line

Presenter23:17

I found it.

Oleg Gordievsky23:17

Yeah. In one week really one week.

Presenter23:20

Before we hear about that, can you tell me about your next piece of music?

Oleg Gordievsky23:23

Our next piece of music is um Beth Hoberman. And uh for me he was close because he was writing music which was really Central European music and I liked everything which was Central European.

Presenter24:38

The opening of Beethoven's string quartet in E-flat major performed by the Tokach Quartet.

Presenter24:44

So a window then, Olegordieski, of just about a week, and the plan was hatched for you to make an escape you had this

Oleg Gordievsky24:51

Mari plant was kept there for now for two years.

Presenter24:51

Betty

Oleg Gordievsky24:55

Waiting for me for that such case.

Presenter24:57

And the plan was hidden in the in the blue cover.

Oleg Gordievsky24:59

In a cover co book cover. So I put the book in water. It uh collapsed. The film fell out and uh there was wonderful text. Text was written by John Scarrett as if uh it was recommending me how to travel by car from Paris to Marseilles.

Presenter25:20

Bye.

Presenter25:21

And this is at a time when every move you make is being monitored. How do you manage to shake off the people that are tailing you to make this escape?

Oleg Gordievsky25:30

Uh

Oleg Gordievsky25:31

Uh to tell you frankly, I escaped the surveillance three or four times because I need to buy the ticket in advance. Then I had something else to do, ask a signal to send.

Oleg Gordievsky25:44

And now everything was in movement.

Oleg Gordievsky25:46

Elsa slept well.

Oleg Gordievsky25:49

I slept well, and next morning I brought total order to the flat.

Oleg Gordievsky25:55

Everything left money for the family.

Oleg Gordievsky25:58

and left. In order to che shady surveillance, I uh had to run through the woods so they could not find me. And then I caught train to Leningrad, went to the bus. I I was the only man in the bus, and I said to the driver, Stop.

Oleg Gordievsky26:19

He looked at me with great suspicion, because they were all agents in the KGB in the border area. All.

Oleg Gordievsky26:27

and I said, I'm unwell, please let me out, I'm unwell. He let me out, and I started to walk in the direction of Leningrad. I went and the lay by, which was near by,

Oleg Gordievsky26:39

And it turned out it was the only lay-by on the whole road from Leningrad to b to the border. In that lay-by I uh waited for several hours for the cars. And when the cars arrived at two o'clock, I put myself immediately into the boot of the car. There were several pieces like water, mm, pills,

Presenter27:04

It was a sedative pill.

Oleg Gordievsky27:05

Sedative pills, which help very much, by the way.

Presenter27:09

And you also had a cover that you put over your head which was to deflect any infra-red monitoring.

Oleg Gordievsky27:14

Yes, when it was at s point where they checked the car, and it was five, six such points on the border. One time they had shut off the um engine and I heard the dogs sniffing. This is the border guard dog. Border guard dogs sniffing who who is in the cars maybe. But then the ladies, brilliant English ladies,

Presenter27:38

This is the agents in the front of the car.

Oleg Gordievsky27:40

Uh yeah wives.

Oleg Gordievsky27:41

The whites were agent.

Presenter27:42

Fights with agent.

Oleg Gordievsky27:43

With b babies, by the way. They started to throw nappies. They had babies in the car with them, they had their children? Yes.

Oleg Gordievsky27:51

We had children in the car, which was very good.

Oleg Gordievsky27:54

Very good, because it deflected the attention.

Oleg Gordievsky27:57

and they started to throw nappies to the dogs.

Oleg Gordievsky28:01

And the smell

Oleg Gordievsky28:03

The sense of smell of the dogs was entirely disorientated.

Oleg Gordievsky28:07

So the car started to go. Very loud loud music was played in order to uh make me forget everything, which was good.

Oleg Gordievsky28:17

Then suddenly that music to stop,

Oleg Gordievsky28:19

And Sibelius that it was blue played. Sibelius. Finlandium. Finlandium.

Presenter28:22

Yeah.

Presenter28:23

Finland

Oleg Gordievsky28:25

And I realized now I'm free.

Presenter28:29

What did that moment of freedom feel like, true freedom, when you knew that this part of the journey was over?

Oleg Gordievsky28:33

It was fantastic. I was alive and I was free.

Oleg Gordievsky28:37

So now I had only one thing, to get the family out. Was it six years ago? Two fifths.

Oleg Gordievsky28:45

And they came with like different people.

Presenter28:48

Yeah, I think it's a very good idea.

Oleg Gordievsky28:48

Yeah.

Presenter28:49

Yeah.

Oleg Gordievsky28:50

The wife she never loved me and was also very keen to be indoctrined. And the children were under her influence. So I haven't seen them in the last

Oleg Gordievsky29:02

Six years, six years, the toll.

Presenter29:05

And now you have a happy and settled relationship.

Oleg Gordievsky29:07

I have been settled. I got uh uh pr uh wife, English wife, and uh people um look after me, help me. So it is it's very nice life really.

Presenter29:20

Let's take a break for some music then. Tell me about your next piece of music.

Oleg Gordievsky29:25

Erbah Medish.

Oleg Gordievsky29:27

It's called. It is an um famous uh area. And Arbarmadik uh means have pity with me. And here the uh person is singing, You can't forgive me, but at least I ask for pity.

Speaker 430:26

But this my God

Presenter30:43

Mariana Liebochek and Erbar Mediech have mercy, Lord, on me from Bach St. Matthew Passion, with the Leipzig Radio Choir, the Dresden Cathedral Boys Choir, and the State Orchestra of Dresden, conducted by Peter Schreier. You've spoken then about your great love of Britain, but we've seen in in very recent times that uh England and indeed London might not be the safest place for a Russian person to be. You knew Alexander Litvinenko, the former KGB agent who of course was poisoned, who died a year ago. Did you speak to him before his death?

Oleg Gordievsky31:19

Yes, uh unfortunately I spoke only once to him and he said something which was very um hurting me. He said, Please don't make money on my death and uh he meant that I should not make s uh articles and books and so on on um on his death.

Presenter31:40

You were hurt by this because it was never something you would have considered.

Oleg Gordievsky31:42

Because there was a kind of a mistrust to the the friend.

Presenter31:45

Did Alexander Litvinenko know that he was going to die? Did he know he would not recover from the poison?

Oleg Gordievsky31:51

In the last three, four days he knew she was dying, yes.

Oleg Gordievsky31:55

He realized it was useless.

Presenter31:57

Do you ever fear for your own safety living here in Britain?

Oleg Gordievsky32:02

Yes, I I feel that sometimes they can't find a way to damage me, yes.

Oleg Gordievsky32:08

There are the reasons to think that.

Oleg Gordievsky32:11

So you don't feel that your safety can be guaranteed?

Oleg Gordievsky32:14

Five years ago I felt it, now I don't feel it.

Oleg Gordievsky32:17

Life is not very secure now.

Presenter32:19

And of course, as I said back at the very beginning, there is still a warrant out for your death in Russia, but what you seem to be saying now is that you think that they would travel here, there, anywhere, to see you meet your end.

Oleg Gordievsky32:32

Well, they will but kill me here, not uh abroad. So it is here the dangers uh are. So that if they will kil try to kill me, it will be here.

Oleg Gordievsky32:42

in Britain.

Presenter32:45

Tell me then about your final piece of music today.

Oleg Gordievsky32:48

The final piece of music is very interesting because in um nineteen ninety, only half a year after the uh liberation of uh East Germany,

Oleg Gordievsky33:00

Daniel Barenboim came to East Berlin and organized a concert.

Oleg Gordievsky33:07

In the Woods for the East Germans.

Oleg Gordievsky33:10

and played for them the old German music. And it was a wonderful success. And you hear at this piece what mood was there in in the woods when that music was played.

Presenter34:23

Paul Linke's Berliner Luft performed by the Berlin Philharmonic conducted by Daniel Barremboin.

Presenter34:28

So I will give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you're allowed to take one other book. What would you like to take, Oleg?

Oleg Gordievsky34:35

I would like to take the Encyclopædia Britannica. Very long, but still a book.

Presenter34:40

Good reading. Um and what about a luxury, something to make life on this lonely desert island a little more bearable?

Presenter34:47

Yeah.

Oleg Gordievsky34:47

I would like to have a nice collection of the toiletries.

Presenter34:52

Ah, yes.

Oleg Gordievsky34:52

For for my bath. Particularly good uh soaps and good uh shaving creams and good blades for shaving and so that type of uh uh things.

Presenter35:03

Very civilizing. You may have that then. And which one disc, if I was to force you to pick just one disc of this eight that you could take, which one would it be?

Oleg Gordievsky35:12

However, I will take.

Oleg Gordievsky35:14

Erbarmendich. It is of course well known, but it is touching always so much.

Presenter35:21

You may have that. Oleg Gordievsky, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Yeah. Uh

Presenter35:33

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.