Karren Brady

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand seven.

Presenter0:28

My castaway this week is the businesswoman Karen Brady. She's been called the First Lady of Football, and it's a moniker that's well earned. She became managing director of Birmingham City nearly fifteen years ago when she was just twenty three. When she joined, the club was in administration. Now it turns a hefty profit and has risen from the second division to the premiership.

Presenter0:49

Success in the boardroom and on the pitch is rare enough, but along the way she has married one of her players, had two children, and battled a life threatening illness. A remarkable journey, then, Karen. You've said that during those years, in your words, you've had to learn how to handle expectations and words of four letters.

Presenter1:08

Can you take us back to nineteen ninety three then? You became MD of Birmingham City. What sort of reception did you get when you arrived?

Karren Brady1:09

In nineteen ninety three

Karren Brady1:13

It was interesting actually because I remember I'd seen an advert in the Financial Times that said football club for sale. And I went to my boss and I said, Look, there's this football club for sale in Birmingham. It's run down. It's in administration. I'd like you to buy it and let me go and run it.

Karren Brady1:26

And I remember him saying to me, Football, Karen he said, you know, very male dominated. You'll have to be twice as good as the men to be thought as even only half as good and I said, Well, luckily that's not difficult.

Karren Brady1:39

I was running a newspaper group. I was sales and market director for a newspaper group. So he said to me, Okay, he said, Go on, then we'll go and do it And I remember my first press conference, I was twenty three and I was desperate to look at least twenty five'cause I in my mind twenty five is very sophisticated. And I remember I had this press conference and I um

Karren Brady1:56

had this big hair, big earrings, and huge shoulder pads, and I sort of did my spiel to the press, and I said, Oh, any questions, any questions? and this little hand went up and I said, Yes, sir and he said, Sunday people, what are your vital statistics?

Karren Brady2:11

And I remember thinking, oh god, maybe this is going to be a mountain to climb. But in my first year, the club recorded a trading profit for the first time in its modern history. And I think the people that worked with me really began to understand that this was going to be run as a serious business with a strategy and with a communication policy and be delivering returns.

Presenter2:31

But of course sporting organisations I mean I've visited big football clubs. You only have to put a toe in the door to realize that they're very much male environments. I mean was there, if you like, even at the most basic level, was there somewhere for you to go to the loo? Were they making you welcome? Did you feel like these were men only areas? I mean how was it?

Karren Brady2:50

I do remember my first away game was at Watford, and I remember going up to the desk saying, Oh, could you tell me where the director's box is? And they said, Oh, no, director's wives over there. And I said, No, I didn't ask for director's wives. I'd like to know where the director's box is. And they said, Yes, dearie, director's wives over there. And I said, No, I am the managing director of Boeing City. And this sort of steward put on his little glasses and he said, Oh, yes, you're that woman. He said, I have to ring someone to find out what to do with you. Tell me about your first piece of music, then.

Karren Brady3:16

And the first piece of music is a song by Carol King called Natural Woman. And I love the whole essence of the song and the harmony of the song. And it reminds me of sort of growing up and my mother used to play the song a lot and I love it.

Speaker 43:33

Now I'm no longer doubtful.

Speaker 43:37

Of what I'm living for

Speaker 43:40

Cause if I make you happy, I don't need to do more

Speaker 43:47

You make me feel.

Speaker 43:51

You make me feel.

Speaker 43:55

You make me feel like an actual

Presenter4:04

Carol King, a natural woman. So, Karen, where does the confidence come from? You seem to me a supremely confident character. What what sort of home was it that gave you this confidence?

Karren Brady4:14

A very happy home, very happy home. I have an elder brother um who is incredibly successful, much more so than me, really. I'm the poor relation in my family. You know, we had a very happy home. We lived in Edmonton, very close to the um Tottenhotsburg ground.

Karren Brady4:28

And my youngest memories are of my brother and I. We were always I think what you would lovingly call cheeky monkeys. But we were always sort of had schemes, sort of money making schemes. I remember when I was younger, I put a poster up on my bedroom window'cause we sort of lived on a high street. saying, you know, please call in for massage and and manic.

Karren Brady4:48

And my mother saying, There's these people, you know, knocking on the doors of massage and I said, Oh, you know, they're my customers and you're driving them away And'cause obviously I didn't understand the connotation of inviting people in for massages.

Presenter4:59

So, where did this entrepreneurial spirit come from? And were your parents in business?

Karren Brady5:03

My dad is very self-made, very driven, very hard-working. What does he do?

Presenter5:07

And what does he do?

Karren Brady5:08

Um, he's a printer and a property developer and then sort of all-round businessman. You know, my brother's self-made as well. I think we're all quite driven people actually.

Presenter5:17

And you say that you were, uh, at its most generous description, a bit of a cheeky monkey. I mean, how did your mum handle you?

Karren Brady5:22

Key, I mean hi

Karren Brady5:24

My mum was very laid back and always with a great sense of half despair and half humour. And actually, you know, I was my own daughter now, who's eleven, wants more freedom, wants to go out into town. And I'm absolutely adamantly against that. And I was working out, I must have been nine and, you know, used to get the bus into Wood Green High Street and go shopping on a Saturday on my own and on with friends and with my mother.

Presenter5:48

Plenty of of food and what about I mean you're very well dressed, beautiful jewellery. Was you was your mother a is your mother a glamorous guy?

Karren Brady5:49

Yeah, but

Karren Brady5:54

Yes, my mother always my parents used to go on a Saturday night to a place in London, sort of talk of the town or something it was called. The glamorous night out. Yeah, glamorous night out. And my mother always had the most beautiful dresses, which I

Presenter6:01

Uncle

Presenter6:03

Yeah.

Karren Brady6:06

Curse her now for sort of getting rid of them all because I remember them absolutely vividly, every single one of them. And she had a new dress every Saturday night and she was incredibly elegant. My mother had beautiful hair. She used to smoke in those days and she used to have her cigarettes dyed to the same colour as her dresses. And she used to have these little box of violets, sort of pepperminty type sweets that was just so elegant that she used to carry with her.

Presenter6:31

I'm still open-mouthed that your mother had her cigarettes dyed to match her. Where does one send one's cigarettes to be dyed?

Karren Brady6:33

Alright.

Karren Brady6:34

But where does

Karren Brady6:36

I don't know, I have no idea. But I remember that they were the most beautiful sort of mint greens, lilacs, purples, blacks. You know, they were the most beautiful things.

Presenter6:45

Tail cigarettes. Cotton tail cigarettes, yeah. Tell me about your next piece of music.

Karren Brady6:46

It's cocktail cigarettes, yeah.

Karren Brady6:49

The next piece of music is Dancing Queen by Abba, and it's my earliest memory of a song. As I said, you know, we lived in a house in Edmonton, and I had a little bedroom that was very, very pink. And I was always in my room dancing around to this song because it was literally on a loop. It was a sort of old cassette and it used to go around until it literally wore out. And I used to do that all day whilst rearranging my bedroom. So it brings back some really happy memories.

Speaker 47:39

Let's see.

Presenter7:44

ABBA and dancing queen and memories there of dancing all day long in your bedroom and rearranging the furniture. Sounds like a perfect day. Um you were a little bit of a handful then. You were you were sent away to boarding school yesterday.

Karren Brady7:48

In your bedroom and rearranging the furniture.

Karren Brady7:56

I want to say sent away. Or maybe I was, I don't know.

Presenter7:56

I wouldn't say sent away.

Karren Brady8:01

Yes, I went to boarding school when I was 13, and it was out in the country in Hertfordshire. And it was a convent school. It was a convent school, very strict convent school. We had mass twice a day, every day. It was very much in vogue, and if you had money, you know, your children's education was where you put all your money. And it was a very highly recommended school, and that's why they sent me.

Presenter8:21

If you had been given the relative freedom, though, as you were saying, when you were eight or nine, to be allowed to go on the bus into town, to suddenly be in a a convent school virtually in the middle of nowhere, how did you find that?

Karren Brady8:26

Yeah.

Karren Brady8:32

Um, well, I kind of manipulated the system a little bit, I guess. I mean, I was looking back at some old school reports and they all said that, you know, I was a bit of a chatterbox and very confident and had my own mind and wasn't particularly conformist. But I I wasn't aggressive in any of those things. But I always had schemes and ideas again, you know, about you know, what were the rules and regulations and how could we just, you know, find a way to get a bit more time on a Saturday to do the things that we wanted. We we kind of tried to modernize things, but in a spirited, positive, enthusiastic way rather than in a rebelling way.

Presenter9:04

As a young teenager did you have a view of what you wanted to do? Did you know business would be for you?

Karren Brady9:08

No, I didn't. But I but I did know that I would be, you know, in a job where I worked with people, where being in a team would be very important to me, where I'd be able to drive through my energy, enthusiasm and my ideas really I I thought would be a key to my success in the future.

Presenter9:24

Even at that young age, you understand that yourself.

Karren Brady9:26

Yes, I think so.

Presenter9:28

Now you went to an all-boys sixth form.

Karren Brady9:30

I did, yes.

Presenter9:30

School. It's interesting that people like Nicola Horlick, Martha, Lane Fox also did. I mean, without wanting to draw any kind of blithe conclusions about that.

Karren Brady9:33

Ma Lane F

Karren Brady9:35

That's true.

Karren Brady9:37

Yeah.

Presenter9:40

You can't help wondering if being surrounded by boys at such a critical age gives you a view of how you should perform and how competitive you should be in an all male environment.

Karren Brady9:50

Yeah, I think it's amazing that those similarities do exist in very successful people's lives, you know, women's lives in particular. I mean, I got to 16 and my parents decided that I really needed a different change of environment, so they sent me to an all-boys school from 16 to 18, and it really was a very different environment. It was Aldenham in Elstree, and it is really, I can look back in my life and say it was one of the best times I ever had. I got back my independence, I got back my sense of who I was and what I wanted to do, and it was the kind of school that promoted your individualism and your social skills, really, your ability to mix with people. I mean, I didn't have any steady boyfriends, I didn't have anything like that. I had a free spirit, I had lots of friends, loads of fun. And if I ever look back to where did my real confidence start, and where did I believe I could be anything I wanted to be, even with the limitations I had, because I wasn't the most academic, it was at that school. Tell me about your next piece of music then. The next piece of music is Last Christmas by Wham. And the reason I've selected this is that when I was at Pohl's Convent, I was probably about 14 or 15, and I was absolutely convinced that when I left school, I would marry George Michael, who I loved beyond any crush. He was my heartthrob. And my best friend Charlotte used to do me these drawings of him to put up on my wall. She was a fantastic artist. And she would leave me little things, all made of paper. They would be rings, but all made of paper and notes on my pillow saying, I'm coming for you, you know, to take you out of this place. You know, love George. It was only after I left school and realised that his inclination wouldn't be towards me.

Presenter11:24

You know, tips.

Karren Brady11:34

That my, you know, my heart was broken. And I always thought, you know, well, maybe if we met, things could have been so much different.

Speaker 411:42

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart But the very next day you gave it away This year, to save me from tears I'll give it to someone special

Speaker 412:00

Last Christmas, I gave you my heart But the very next day you gave it away

Presenter12:10

Wham and last Christmas. You said a moment ago that you weren't the most intelligent girl in school and you had sort of fairly straightforward reports. What what do you think it was then as a youngster that marked you out? Was it your energy?

Karren Brady12:24

I think my energy and my enthusiasm. You know, in those days, you know, in the 80s, they were the things that really mattered. Energy, enthusiasm, determination, persistence, and not so much the academic side and really that whole personality, that drive, that ability to be recognised through being there first, being last home, always volunteering, all of those things, really.

Presenter12:48

And did you have you must have had a sense of impatience there? I mean, c clearly university was not for you.

Karren Brady12:53

No, I decided to go to work. So I went to Saatchi and Saatchi and I was on, I guess, a kind of graduate programme, very junior, um person and that's what I did. But what

Presenter13:03

Uh

Karren Brady13:03

Uh

Presenter13:03

What about between school and starting work? What what did you do in between?

Karren Brady13:07

I didn't I I left school on the Friday and started work on Monday.

Presenter13:10

So there was no sense. You didn't want time to gather your thoughts and no, I.

Karren Brady13:14

No, no, I was I was so ready to get out and work. And I mean, I went from a wonderful school into Saatchis and Saatchis, which was just an extension of that atmosphere and that wonderful environment of positiveness.

Presenter13:26

So, you were in this, what essentially was a graduate programme at Saatchi and Saatchi. I mean, you were surrounded by graduates, and you were not a graduate.

Karren Brady13:29

Yeah.

Karren Brady13:32

Yeah.

Presenter13:33

Did that bother you at all?

Karren Brady13:35

No, but I didn't tell anybody I wasn't. I just thought it was much easier just to keep it between myself and Saatchi's. You know, they they obviously saw something in me and they put me on that programme and that's what I did. And it was interesting that I had a different kind of hunger to everybody else. And I actually when I kind of looked around, I realized that there was something special and compelling. There was a drive to me that other people lacked and that made me a very valuable asset within a company.

Presenter14:04

You talk very openly at the age you are now, in in your late thirties, about success and something special about me. I mean, it is actually even now still quite uncommon to hear a woman talk in those very open terms about themselves and their ability and their success. You seem very unself conscious about that.

Karren Brady14:21

Yeah, well, I probably wouldn't say it about me now. I mean, I'm reflecting on the person that I was when I was eighteen or nineteen, and I was very different to every every other eighteen or nineteen-year-old. You know, I was always in my office, I loved what I did, and I always say that, you know, nothing's work unless you'd rather be doing something else. And there really hasn't in my life been anything else I'd rather be doing. Now, you worked at school?

Presenter14:40

Such is, and then you went on to work at LBC that had originally offered you a job. And it was through that job that you met David Sullivan. How did you meet?

Karren Brady14:43

He has had

Karren Brady14:47

And I d I do

Karren Brady14:48

Well, he I was given Asian hour to sell, which was between 4 a.m. and 5 a.m. And I was given a list of clients that really didn't spend any money. And one of the people I got through was to David Sullivan, and he, you know, he said that he didn't think much of radio, and I convinced him to take a radio package, sales package. And within about eight months from that day, he was spending over two million pounds, and I was earning more in commission than I think the rest of the entire sales force put together.

Presenter15:17

Let's take a break, much more to talk about there. Tell me about your next piece of music.

Karren Brady15:21

The next piece of music is by The Jam, a town called Malice. And the reason I've chosen this is that I remember my heartbreak when I realised that George Michael was never going to look at me twice and I quickly switched my alliance to Paul Weller. And again, I think it came back to, you know, when I was at school in the 80s, it was very much new romantic style music. And this was something really different. And I remember really liking it and thinking that this, you know, this was something different, but it was something for me.

Speaker 416:05

Who shall

Speaker 416:06

But it's up to us to change the time

Presenter16:13

The Jam and Tang Cold Malice. So you clearly impressed David Sullivan. Not only did he up his advertising uh spending, transferring it into radio predominantly, but also he ended up offering you a job. You were, what, twenty two and you were a director of sport newspapers. That's right, yep. Quite a meteoric rise.

Karren Brady16:27

That's right, yeah.

Karren Brady16:29

Yeah. Yep. You know, again, it was through hard work, being successful, putting the hours in. I mean, I always kind of had the impression that people could only say no and I would be no worse off than where I started. And I think that, that's a very good attitude to have in sales.

Presenter16:43

And what about David Sullivan's empire? I mean, his fortune has been built on the back of titles that not everyone would want to have sitting in their front room. I mean, they're sh what do we call it, adult en entertainment, the sexists. Romance might be stretching a bit, I think.

Speaker 416:51

P M

Speaker 416:53

Yeah.

Karren Brady16:54

Yeah.

Karren Brady16:55

Romance.

Presenter16:58

And did that ever bother you?

Karren Brady17:00

No, not really. I think when you're younger you have much more of an open mind. And I I wasn't working on those titles and nor was I I part of them. I guess it's very much like saying, you know, can you own The Times and the The Sun? You know, it's the the they're just different kinds of publications within one house, really. Um so no, I I always felt a real sense of loyalty towards David. He gave me my my chance. You know, he backed me when I went into the football club. And I and I have a lot of um gratitude towards him, and I also respect and like him very much.

Presenter17:32

So, as you say, you went to him with the idea of buying a product?

Karren Brady17:35

Yeah, and when the job came up at Birmingham, I remember him saying, Oh, you know, I'm sixty, forty against and I said, Look, you know, I will move up there, I will I will give it my very best shot and on that basis he he bought it.

Presenter17:35

Yeah.

Presenter17:45

But football clubs of course, as as we know, you don't naturally buy them as a good going business proposition. I mean, you may as well put your all your cash in a wheelbarrow and set fire to it.

Karren Brady17:56

Yes, I mean, there was an element of that. I mean, Birmingham, it has to be said in the early days of 1993 was a business, sort of a big black hole for money where money was just sort of pouring out. And it really was a case of very quickly closing that black hole and then building a stabilised business. And it was only going to go places if there was a long-term vision, a drive, and an energy behind that. I mean, I'd never been to Birmingham. What about it?

Presenter18:16

What about that? I mean, you know, presumably, along with all the hard work you were doing, you had some sort of social network set up where you were living and working. You went to live in Birmingham. You must have felt rather at sea.

Karren Brady18:26

Yeah, I mean, although to say to be honest with you, I mean, I had a flat and I remember one of my good friends coming to stay with me for a while. And she said to me, I came home from work, you know, late one night and she said to me, Do you realize that the fridge has never been turned on, the brochure is still in the oven, and you don't own a teacup? And I said, Because I never go in the kitchen because I'm always at work. So when I say I had a sort of social network, I had my friends and I had my family, but my home was really no more than a hotel room that I would drop in and out of and place to pick up my clothes. I mean, I was very career-minded and a very hard worker. So I was 23 years old and I could have lived in a caravan. Tell me about your next piece of music then. The next piece of music is I'll Do Anything for Love by Meatloaf, and I picked it because I just love it. I think it's a very powerful song and I just love it.

Speaker 419:12

No, I won't do this thing for love.

Speaker 419:18

Oh I'm a

Speaker 419:19

When we think for life

Speaker 419:23

I would do anything for love.

Speaker 419:28

But I won't do that.

Speaker 419:33

No, I won't do that.

Presenter19:38

Meatloaf and I do anything for love. So David Sullivan said he gave you the job of running Birmingham because you were not just a brilliant saleswoman, a good businesswoman, but also you were a sacker.

Karren Brady19:51

Did he say that? Did he really? Yes.

Presenter19:52

Did he?

Karren Brady19:54

Well, I wasn't frightened of change. Although I always say to people that to change something and change it for the better are two really different things. But I think really, you know, the whole environment, the whole ethos at Birmingham needed a complete shake up. Did you sack a lot of people?

Presenter19:54

What do you think?

Karren Brady20:07

I did, yeah. No, I had to make some changes. You know, seventy five percent of my current management team are women, and a lot of those people started with me, you know, the first kind of line of people that I brought in with me in nineteen ninety three. So I actually have a real sense of loyalty. And I think if you look at the you know, the most high profile person I can employ is the manager. And I've appointed four in fifteen years, and I know Leicester have appointed four this year. So I'm not a hard nosed just sack people for the sake of it. I don't think it's a particularly pleasant job. But I also am not afraid to make changes for the better for my company because my company deserves that. People said when he appointed you that it was a publicity statement.

Presenter20:41

That's what they thought. A rather gorgeous twenty-three-year-old girl who'd come from within his stable and there you were in the football shirt having your picture taken on the shoulders of big hunky football players and

Karren Brady20:42

That's what I thought.

Karren Brady20:44

Yeah.

Presenter20:52

How did you feel that they accused him of just pulling a publicity?

Karren Brady20:52

Yeah.

Karren Brady20:55

Well, I'm sure people thought, you know, within six months of taking the job I'd open a nightclub in Birmingham or something. But I didn't, it didn't much matter to me. You know, I've always had a good sense of fun in my life. I think when you're twenty-three, you have such thick skin that criticism like that doesn't even touch you. And of course, you know, very quickly people came to realize that all of the things I was doing are now copied across football, all of the business initiatives, all of the things that I was doing, the marketing that we were doing. And I think people began to realise that actually it was an asset that I was young and vibrant and up for anything. I don't do the shirt anymore, by the way.

Presenter21:28

You were saying though that that you did have to let people go, isn't that what they call it? You did have to sack a lot of people. What aspects of your job do you find difficult? You sound as if it's all rather in a day's work.

Karren Brady21:32

Oh yeah.

Karren Brady21:39

Well, I mean, when I took over Birmingham, I mean, there was an example where the Chief Scout was also the catering manager. I mean, you know, I want you to understand that this wasn't sort of a a bullsy twenty three year old just bulldozing everybody out. I mean, it was a shambles, really.

Presenter21:52

You've had success, solid success on the balance sheet. You've also had great success on the pit. Which one is more important to you?

Karren Brady22:02

Well, of course, you know, they both go hand in hand. What's really important is that the business is geared up to maximise the benefits that Premier League football offers you. You know, I say to my staff that really, you know, we've got 23 events a year, at least 23 events a year to put on, and they happen to be football matches. And our job, put very simply, is to ensure that each one of those football matches is sold out and each seat is maximized on, and every opportunity is taken. Because once the game is gone, the opportunity to earn from that game has gone forever. So you really have to focus on that.

Presenter22:33

Spoken with great commitment about your commitment to the club. You were so committed to it, you married one of its players.

Presenter22:39

So how did how did that happen?

Karren Brady22:41

Well, obviously I'd moved up to Birmingham. I didn't particularly know anybody. And in those days, there were lots of community events that we do, sort of going to children's schools, openings of local events and things like that. And I would always volunteer to go because I didn't have anything else to do in the evenings. And Paul was from Canada in exactly the same boat, living in a town where he didn't particularly know anybody. And he was the sort of star player in Inverted Commas. So he would always be the one everybody wanted to go. And I'd go because I had nothing else to do. And through that, we built up a friendship.

Presenter23:11

Nothing

Karren Brady23:15

And then one particular game I forget the game but he got injured.

Karren Brady23:18

and he was taken to hospital to have an operation. And I thought, Oh, I'll pop in on my way home to see, you know, to see how he is and I think I got there at sort of, I don't know, eight or nine o'clock, and I don't think I left till two in the morning, and I think that was the start of our relationship really.

Presenter23:32

Tell me about your next piece of music then.

Karren Brady23:33

The next piece of music is Heaven Help by Lenny Kravitz, which I guess is Paul and and my song. I remember he asked me to listen to it when we were quite, you know, in the thick of our relationship and I think three months after listening to this song he asked me to marry him and of course I said yes and that was now, gosh, twelve and a half, nearly thirteen years ago. So it's a lovely song and it brings back some wonderful memories.

Speaker 423:54

There comes a time to be free of the heart.

Speaker 424:00

I wanna be ready, ready to stand up.

Speaker 424:06

On a love journey

Speaker 424:07

I got places to go.

Speaker 424:11

Made up my mind and I got to let you know Heaven have a heart that hits me inside

Presenter24:23

Lenny Crabts and Heaven help. So, Carrimbra, your first child then, your daughter Sophia, was born a year after you married.

Presenter24:31

Is it true you went back to work within three days?

Karren Brady24:33

It is true. Yeah, it's not something I'm particularly proud of, nor that I don't kind of dwell on it very much. My mother said to me, I'm waiting for it to all fall apart, but it seems to be, you know, you seem to be handling it very well. I think it was another one of those things. It was something I really wanted to do. I really wanted to be a mother. I was really looking forward to it. And I also had a business to run. You know, I love the title Working Mother because my work and my kids are the most important things to me. And it had to be done. And I found a way to do it and do it, you know, try and do it to the best of my ability.

Presenter25:03

But your mother was worried for your stability.

Karren Brady25:05

She well, yeah, I think she was. She said, You know you're holding this all together remarkably well. You you're sort of going to work all day, up all night, feeding the baby and with the baby, and then you're at work all day. Um, at what point is it all going to come crashing down? And and she said and you're remarkably happy. Um and um and it never has come crashing down.

Presenter25:21

And there's never been times when you've sat and wondered why the hell have I put myself in the middle of the morning?

Karren Brady25:24

I do remember about six months afterwards feeling utterly exhausted, as if I was walking around in a cloud. And it was after about six months I actually said to my husband, You're going to have to help me. You're going to have to get up in the night and you're going to have to do your bit, because I am absolutely at the point of total and utter exhaustion.

Presenter25:45

Nobody ever of course lies on their deathbed and says I wish I'd spent more time.

Presenter25:50

Do you worry about the early days that you missed?

Karren Brady25:50

Do you worry about the

Karren Brady25:52

No, I don't really, because I don't feel that I should beat myself up about that. I'd certainly learn when I had my son, I took six weeks off. I mean, I still did my emails, I still had people coming to coming home, but I don't understand the concept. I've never understood the concept of having a day off completely, i.e. don't look at emails, don't answer the phones. Never do you mean never? Never, never, never, never. What about on holiday? Never, never, never. My son said to me on our last holiday, I wish that Blackberry would blow up.

Presenter26:11

Never do you mean never?

Presenter26:14

Uh

Karren Brady26:19

And I think that is the whole point of modern communications that you're always available. But I think it's because I just love the business. I love being in it. I love being in control of it. I love making the decisions, and that's why I'm available.

Presenter26:32

Last February, of course, you were forced to take a break. Tell me what happened. You were very ill.

Karren Brady26:37

Yep. I had a routine scan just as part of a u you know, normal health check, but it happened to include a full body scan. And the following day I got a phone call from the company that did the scan, and they said to me

Karren Brady26:49

you know, we're sorry to have to tell you, but you have a brain aneurysm and I said, Oh, um right, you know and they said all would you like us to make an appointment for you to see a specialist? and I said, Oh, yes, please and they said well, can you go to morrow?

Karren Brady27:03

And I said, Well, what am I going to die before tomorrow? and they said, Well, you know, you can die crossing the road. I thought, God, you know, maybe this is really you know, this is go this is something really serious and um and of course it was really serious and I had to have a I had to have an operation um and I went into hospital and um

Karren Brady27:19

There's two kind of ways that you can deal with an aneurysm. You can either have it clipped surgically or you can have this newer technique called coiling. And they asked me to make a decision, and of course I couldn't make a decision because I really didn't understand what what they were talking about. And I said, it's very difficult for me to make a decision. So when you decided, mutually, you know, agreed what the treatment is, whatever that decision is, I will go with it.

Presenter27:42

And what was the chance that you wouldn't actually wake up from the surgery, or that the surgery wouldn't be successful?

Karren Brady27:47

Um

Karren Brady27:48

They were quite high. I mean, I I hate to dwell on things like that. You know, I didn't want to be wheeled down, you know, to have the surgery, which is five and a half hours. And of course, the chances are much greater not to do anything than to do something about it. And really, it's the complications of the surgery in terms of strokes and disability from that that is the worry, really. Tell me about your next piece of music, then. The next piece of music is a piece by Bonnie Tyler called Total Eclipse of the Heart, which I just love. I find the whole song very uplifting. I think I was about 13 when it came out, and it never ceases to bring a smile on my face, or something I love to sing along to.

Speaker 428:32

I really need it tonight!

Speaker 428:35

Forever's gonna start tonight.

Speaker 428:38

Forever's gonna start to live for the time I was falling in love.

Speaker 428:44

Now I'm only falling apart

Speaker 428:49

There's nothing I can do, a total eclipse of the house.

Speaker 328:53

Yeah.

Presenter28:56

Bonnie Tyler and Total Eclipse of the Heart. You you told me something there that I must explore in a little more detail, which was when you went in for this.

Speaker 429:01

Or

Presenter29:05

Surgery, this vital surgery on the aneurysm in your brain. You just told everybody at Birmingham City FC the day before. You sent them an email.

Karren Brady29:12

I did. I sent them an email saying we're having brain surgery tomorrow and I'll see you.

Karren Brady29:17

So in a few weeks, I just I found it very difficult. I didn't really know what to say to people because I had no obvious signs of illness and I was perfectly, you know, okay on the outside. I I just didn't want to worry people and I d I'm and I found it very difficult. So, you know, people were crying and I remember my nan saying, Oh, oh God, you can't die before your mother, that would be really awful. What do you say to them?

Karren Brady29:41

And I just didn't want to worry people. So I just felt it would be much easier to say, Look, it's fate-complete, it's happening, and I hope to see you in a few weeks. And that's what I did.

Presenter29:50

How on earth would you manage on a desert island on

Karren Brady29:53

Uh

Presenter29:54

Uh

Karren Brady29:54

Oh well

Presenter29:54

Yeah.

Karren Brady29:54

And no Blackberry But

Presenter29:55

I'm not giving you it.

Karren Brady29:57

Come to the

Presenter29:57

To the luxury later. How fast would you

Karren Brady29:58

How much would you manage? Do you know I have no idea how I would manage. I would have to manage, so that probably would get me through. I'm the kind of person that leaves the hairdressers with foil in their hair because I cannot stand being there a second more. So maybe it would teach me a b you know, to calm down a bit.

Presenter30:14

Tell me about your final piece of music, then.

Karren Brady30:16

The final piece of music is I'll Be Missing You by Puff Daddy, and I chose this because it reminds me of my little girl, Sophia, when she was born. She was a really difficult sleeper, and this was the one song we got her into a routine by having this one song play, and she would love it, and she'd actually go to sleep. So it was a fantastic piece of music for me.

Speaker 330:36

Move on me.

Speaker 330:40

Every single day, every time I pray, I'll be missing.

Speaker 330:49

Thinking of a day.

Speaker 330:53

When you win away

Speaker 330:57

What a life to take, what a fun to break, now we miss it.

Presenter31:05

An unlikely lullaby. Puff Daddy. And I'll be missing you. So I'm going to give you the Bible.

Karren Brady31:10

My boy

Presenter31:11

The complete works of Shakespeare, you're allowed to take one other book, what will that be?

Karren Brady31:14

I would take um Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen. I love the book. I love the romance of it. I love the fact that here's a woman that people want to put down and not only does she stand up for herself, but she gets the price pickings as well. So I I just adore the book. I could I've read it hundreds of times and could read it hundreds more.

Presenter31:31

Give you that

Karren Brady31:31

That

Presenter31:31

And the luxury

Karren Brady31:33

I would take my pillow, which I've had for certainly since I was at school, maybe even before that. And it's been all over the world with me, in hospital with me, and I I literally cannot sleep without it, so I'd have to take that.

Presenter31:46

And what about if the waves threatened to wash to the shore and take away your eight disks? Which one would you run through the sand to save?

Karren Brady31:53

Ugh, it would definitely be between Wham and Bonnie Tyler. I think I'd take Bonnie Tyler,'cause she's, you know, she's great.

Presenter32:02

Karen Brady, thank you very much for letting us hear your data time and discs.

Karren Brady32:04

No, thank you.

Presenter32:12

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Speaker 433:02

Uh