Paul Weller

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand seven.

Presenter0:27

My castaway this week is Paul Weller. The lyricism, passion, and integrity of his songwriting have guaranteed his place as a platinum-plated icon of music. To his devoted fans and the legions of professional musicians he's inspired, his position is unassailable. It all started, of course, with the Jam, not just in his words, three little geezers from Woking in Black Suits, but a band that set itself apart from the outset, chronicling the lives of Thatcher's children with bittersweet poetical insight. But that was all thirty years ago. He's moved on, and then some. Famously disbanding the Jam at the very height of its success, he was determined to pursue creative fulfilment, whatever the cost. And at times that cost has been high. At one point, he was dropped by his record label and faced writer's block. For inspiration, he returned to his roots and embarked on the next stage of his musical journey. You've said in the past, Paul Weller, that

Presenter1:20

You don't know why people bother to ask you all these questions since all the answers are in the music. I mean, you're known for being.

Presenter1:26

Quite a guarded character. Do you do you loathe being asked questions?

Paul Weller1:32

I don't lose, yes, I do love it sometimes, I suppose, but um I don't know if it's just being guarded. I just there's some things I can't answer. When people say to me,

Paul Weller1:42

Where does that song come from, from whatever song it may be? And it's like, I don't know, it just arrived at my doorstep. I don't know. I mean, sometimes it's.

Paul Weller1:49

Sometimes the songs are about something very specific and other times they just they just come to you, you know. And I suppose I don't know the answer to a lot of those things because I don't care to to know the answer really. I've quite like the magic that when you don't know the answer to it.

Presenter2:02

Does that mean then sometimes when you've finished uh composing a song, and you look at the words, you find out things about yourself?

Paul Weller2:08

Yeah, you can I suppose you can, yeah, but I think sometimes that process could happen weeks or months or years later, you know, and sometimes it doesn't happen at all, which is fine as well.

Presenter2:16

And how comfortable are you with I mean given of course that once you've written something down

Presenter2:20

The very private becomes public. Is is that uncomfortable then that people uh read to you through your

Paul Weller2:23

Read the user yourself. Songs. No, it isn't. It isn't at all. It isn't at all because I think I mean that's what you're trying to write. You know, you're writing you're writing to communicate with people, so you couldn't take exception to that, you know. It's more I don't sit and think where the songs come from, that's what it really is. Why do I write? I just do. I just I accept that's what I do in life. And that's what I've always done.

Presenter2:42

And given that it started when you were a teenager then, were you one of those teenagers who poured over the sleeve notes and and read other people's words?

Paul Weller2:47

People's words. Yeah, totally, yeah. Every little single little word on the sleeve.

Paul Weller2:52

And would know all the Beatle lyrics off by heart and the kinks and all those bands, you know, and um they were like my books. I was never particularly into books or into schooling or education. I that was my education to me.

Presenter3:04

Tell me about your first choice today then.

Paul Weller3:06

Uh with the Small Faces and it's a Tin Soldier which is from nineteen sixty seven.

Paul Weller3:12

I've had to pick one band out from the era. I guess it's them because I just thought they were.

Paul Weller3:17

I just love everything about them. I thought they just look they look like a proper band. They're all the same size. I love the way they looked. I like the sound. They look like a proper group. You know, there's just so for so few groups these days that look like that and sound like as well. And just how young they were. I mean, they were probably all in their sort of under the twenties, but just the kind of sort of mature sound they had they just encapsulate all of it from

Speaker 43:42

Profile

Speaker 43:47

Look at

Presenter4:06

The Small Faces and Tin Soldier are a huge influence on you and probably one of the first groups you were saying. You loved it. It was intriguing that you said there, you very openly said, you know, they all looked right, they were all the same size. The look of it.

Paul Weller4:15

The same

Presenter4:17

Uh meant and means a lot to you.

Paul Weller4:20

Totally, yeah, because it wasn't just the music, it was the attitude, it was the haircuts, it was the clothes, it was all it was everything, it was all encompassing.

Paul Weller4:26

But it all went hand in hand to me, the whole thing.

Presenter4:28

And so Little Paul in Stanley Road, what was life like for you then?

Paul Weller4:32

Well, it's just fun, fun, fun as I remember it. I mean, I don't know, you kind of always remember the best bits, don't you? I mean, we lived in a very modest working class sort of lifestyle and home and

Paul Weller4:44

But yeah, it was fun I think. It was you know, I remember his being fun anyway.

Presenter4:48

Yeah.

Paul Weller4:48

Yeah.

Presenter4:48

And what sort of people were your parents? I mean, you're still b very close to your parents and and I want to talk to you about your your dad and your professional relationship with him later, but but as a little boy, what sort of guy was your dad?

Paul Weller4:50

I want to talk to you about it.

Paul Weller4:53

Yeah.

Paul Weller4:58

He was uh they're both real characters, my mum and dad. They're very strong characters. So I think you have to be sort of strong to get a word in as well, you know.

Paul Weller5:06

My dad just worked on the building, he was a scaffolder and did bricklaying, and my mummy was a cleaner.

Presenter5:11

And they made a life for themselves very young. I mean, your mum was eighteen when she had you, is that right?

Paul Weller5:15

She was eighteen when she had been, yeah, her dad was in his early twenties I think. So she would always be playing music. There'd always be the radio on or she'd be playing records on the radio, Graham.

Presenter5:24

And what was your bedroom like?

Paul Weller5:27

very small. I mean we lived in London. I mean it sounds like again it sounds like terrible cliche, but we lived in an old sort of Victorian council house. So we didn't have hot water and there was still an outside toilet and there wasn't any central heating. So

Paul Weller5:40

Apart from me saying that I enjoyed it and it was sunshine, but it was also cold as well.

Presenter5:44

I suppose there's a lack of consciousness about that if you are surrounded by streets of people who live the same way as you do.

Paul Weller5:48

Yeah, no, totally I mean, so when you look back at it now, you think, well isn't it odd'cause even even into like nineteen seventy one they didn't have any hot water, but I mean, you know, it's not that bad, I know. But at least there was a sense of community anyway, you know. The thing about, you know, sort of leaving your back door open was actually true then you could do that because I suppose because there was nothing to nick anyway,'cause it wasn't yours, it was all on HP anyway. And everyone knew that in the area.

Presenter6:08

Oh, it's very interesting that you said it was a very sort of vocal, noisy house with these big characters. I mean, you you were quite a shy boy, didn't you?

Paul Weller6:15

Really shy, yeah, painfully shy.

Presenter6:16

Really?

Paul Weller6:18

I still am really. But yeah, I mean I was to the point, you know, would only sort of talk if I was spoken to, and even then really reluctantly. A bit like these interviewers. But um I can always remember saying to my mum, I'm gonna go and play a gig next week, I'm gonna play with a mate of mine who's played in this club round the corner from us and she couldn't believe that I'd I would actually stand up on stage and do that.

Presenter6:35

Did did the nerves and the shyness go away when you were on stage, or did you just have to sort of deal with them because you loved the music?

Paul Weller6:41

I dealt with them as I spoke up to a point, but it's kind of even to this day, not as extreme as that, but I mean I still get really, really nervous before I go on, always, every single gig I've ever done, even from last week to f twenty years ago, and that never gets any better. And before a gig, at least an hour or so before a gig, I just wish I was anywhere else but that in this building.

Paul Weller7:03

And then as soon as I get on stage after sort of a song or maybe two songs, it's just like the best place in the world. I never ever want to leave it. And it's just it's just such a weird thing, really.

Presenter7:11

What are you nervous about? C can you pin it on?

Paul Weller7:12

I have no idea because I know it's not you know, I'm not gonna forget the words, forget the cause, I mean none of those things matter anyway, but I've no idea. I suppose it's just that thing of standing up in public and just sort of, you know, burying your soul a bit really, or

Paul Weller7:25

Exposing yourself for that way.

Presenter7:27

Tell me about your next piece of music then.

Paul Weller7:28

The next one's September in the Rain by Dinah Washington. I suppose it makes you think of your mum and dad and that time, that period of time I suppose. As being a sort of really small kid and hearing that sort of music. It was still in that age of romance really and innocence I think and just beautiful arrangements. The strings were great and the melodies and all that stuff. But there was a sense of innocence in the music.

Speaker 47:51

The leaves of brown came tumbling down, remember?

Speaker 47:57

In September.

Speaker 48:04

In the rain.

Speaker 48:08

The sun went out just like a dying.

Presenter8:10

I'm just like a dog.

Speaker 48:17

That's September.

Presenter8:20

Dinah Washington and September in the Rain. I I read that you were given your first guitar when you were what twelve.

Paul Weller8:26

Yeah, I was about twelve year old.

Presenter8:27

What did you do with it? Did you love it from the first moment you met it?

Paul Weller8:30

I did love it, yeah, but more in a sort of posing way really.

Presenter8:34

Imposing like in front of the moon.

Paul Weller8:35

Yeah, totally, yeah.

Presenter8:35

Yeah, totally.

Paul Weller8:36

I can remember from the age of 10 onwards, I sort of had feelings I wanted to be in a band or make music. So they bought me a guitar for my 12th birthday, and then.

Paul Weller8:44

And then I had some lessons for her for a little bit and just learnt some really basic

Paul Weller8:49

stuff on the guitar and then

Paul Weller8:51

Yeah, she played onto records and that's how I learnt really.

Presenter8:53

I I read that you hated school, which I suppose is normal fair for people who end up uh

Paul Weller8:58

Yeah.

Presenter8:59

Being rock stars, what what was it you hated about it?

Paul Weller9:02

Um, I don't like being told what to do, I suppose, you know, I mean that's supposed that's the bottom line really. I didn't like having to wake up every morning and go to the same place and come home and all that stuff, the whole regularity of it. And I suppose music sort of represented a way of escaping that a little bit.

Presenter9:16

And so did you have this sort of other life, which was your real life, which was your musical?

Paul Weller9:20

Yeah, what I imagine to be yeah.

Paul Weller9:23

My real life, but I think it was a way of escaping that.

Paul Weller9:27

There's a way of escaping the, you know, just doing the mundane and just going out or leaving school and doing a mundane job. I'll just sort of escaping all that and getting away and seeing the world and meeting different people and all those things, you know.

Presenter9:37

What did your parents expect of you?'Cause of course a lot of parents get um you know rather

Paul Weller9:40

They didn't expect anything at all because, you know, the sort of background I come from, which is totally unacademic and

Paul Weller9:46

But their their jobs weren't going anyway, so they were quite happy for me to try and get into music and do that.

Presenter9:50

Right, so they saw that as. I mean, I'm interested in the fact that they saw that as a realistic possibility. You know, a lot of parents would say, you know, to get that idea, I did.

Paul Weller9:57

No, they did see it as realistic possibly. I mean, we did more so, and we obviously saw something in me that.

Paul Weller10:03

Possibly other people wouldn't have seen, I don't know. I always likened it to him, he was a boxer as well.

Paul Weller10:07

And I always liken it to to like boxing trainers, where they might see two kids fighting and but they'll see one of them has got something that the other one hasn't.

Paul Weller10:16

And then he just need to draw it out from a bit more. And I always think maybe there's a bit of that in his eye as well.

Presenter10:20

Tell me about your next piece of music, man.

Paul Weller10:22

It's Charles Mingus and it's called Better Get It in Your Soul. Well, I'm a big jazz fan, but I especially like Charles Mingus' stuff. I just think it's really.

Paul Weller10:30

Funky as well, it's really soulful funky and he's also a great composer as well, he's not just about soloists.

Presenter11:33

Charles Mingus and Better Get Hit in Your Soul. It was nineteen seventy three then, I think you were fifteen, when you got your first gig. That was at the Walton Road Working Men's Club. Was that in Woking?

Paul Weller11:43

Was that in

Paul Weller11:43

As he woken, woken working was cubby, I was fourteen actually, the first time I played.

Presenter11:47

Can you remember?

Paul Weller11:48

I can remember, yeah, very distinctly, yeah, because it was it was me and another fellow called Steve Brooks who it was kind of me and him who sort of started the jam off really. But I mean the the workingman's club was literally around the corner from where we lived and my dad just sort of hustled a little half hour slot or whatever on a Wednesday night where we were just playing to probably five old geezers all just drinking and what did you play? We just did covers, we did like rock and roll covers, Chuck Berry songs, anything that was three chords in really. And did they applaud those

Presenter12:16

Four or five geezers with their pipes.

Paul Weller12:17

I don't know if they did at all. They probably just moaned on, Get them off, get those kids off But it did matter, it was kind of it was the first time for us and it was kind of like, Well, you know, we could do this actually. And then I think also after that we did a gig at school in the lunch time in the music room. The whole audience, if you can call it that, was just all girls and we just thought, Well, this is definitely a good job.

Paul Weller12:37

It's a kind of defining moment for us, really. We felt kind of different. We thought we were separated from the rest of the pack within there.

Paul Weller12:43

Of an iconic youthful arrogant sort of way.

Presenter12:46

And your your dad's role in all this, do you think he just wanted something for his boy to do in the evenings, on weekends? Or do you think he saw.

Paul Weller12:51

Yeah.

Presenter12:52

It's a p

Paul Weller12:52

No, I think all he could see was we could take much further. He was we must have spent a good sort of five years playing workingmen's clubs and social clubs around Surrey. Wh whatever you get the delusion, he was always one who would sort of say, Listen, you know, we've got to keep at it'cause we can get a deal. This could this thing could happen.

Presenter13:06

And as you said, he he worked on building sites as a laborer and he'd been a taxi driver in various different jobs. How did he begin to be a manager? I mean, how did he learn to be a manager?

Paul Weller13:15

You had a lot of front.

Paul Weller13:17

And who would never get embarrassed about asking people for whether it's money or equipment or borrow your van mate for a weekend, or going into a place and asking for a gig.

Paul Weller13:25

And you need those sort of people when you're starting off. You need to have people who've got the balls to do that, you know.

Paul Weller13:30

It came from him believing in us and believing in me and his son, and to him sort of hassling all this equipment and gigs, whatever it may be.

Paul Weller13:38

What up until the time he actually got a deal in seventy seven with Po with Polydor?

Paul Weller13:42

And I remember at the time he was saying, Well, I don't know if I should take this on any further because I'm kind of maybe out of my depth here.

Paul Weller13:47

But I mean all of us and to give the other two in the band their due as well, we also look at some rather we're all going on together or not at all, so.

Presenter13:54

It would have been the obvious thing, of course, wouldn't it? To get a proper manager who had other sort of

Paul Weller13:56

It wouldn't have been sort of thrown in the deep end of all these sort of music business types, but it was just kind of we've all worked towards this for all these years, we're going to see it through, you know.

Presenter14:06

It's it's a classic thing for teenagers I mean, especially people who haven't been particularly comfortable in school and aren't going to be academic for them not just to rebel against school, but also, of course, rebel against their parents. You know, what could be more boring than your parents? It isn't it's intriguing that actually you became closer to your father as as your teenage years developed.

Paul Weller14:15

What could be

Paul Weller14:23

Yeah. I mean I think it was that was difficult sometimes because you were expected to rebel against your parents and so you should as well.

Paul Weller14:29

But he's as bad as me, the worse actually, anyway, which I'm sure he won't mind me saying.

Paul Weller14:35

You know, you kinda expected to do it, but there was nothing too much to rebel against really.

Presenter14:39

And what about the moments of the record deal? I mean, that must have been a.

Presenter14:42

A very big deal. It was six thousand pounds you were signed for Polydor nineteen seventy seven, so to say. Can you remember what can you remember of that?

Paul Weller14:45

Yeah.

Paul Weller14:50

We were glad to get it. We were skinned anyway. We needed the money. We needed to get any sort of we'd have took any deal, to be quite honest with you, because we needed the money. It was at that point, it was kind of going to sort of continue.

Paul Weller15:00

Did you think we're on our way?

Paul Weller15:02

I suppose we did, yeah, I suppose we did feel we're on the way really. Yeah, I mean, I think even before getting the deal, we built up such a good following playing these pubs and clubs in town, in London.

Paul Weller15:13

You could sort of feel there was something building up anyway. But the first times I thought we'd really made it was we did a four week residency at a place called the Red Cow in Hammersmith. And each week there was more and more people until like the last week there was like queues around the block. And you kind of thought, Well, we've arrived.

Presenter15:27

Tell me about your next piece of music then.

Paul Weller15:28

Uh

Paul Weller15:29

Um it's James Brown's track and it's called Don't Be a Dropout.

Presenter15:33

And why have you chosen it?

Paul Weller15:34

Well, I I mean I could have chosen sort of you know more of the obvious sort of funky James Brown tracks.

Paul Weller15:40

But this has got its own sort of funk.

Speaker 415:42

They didn't seem so happy, and I know they weren't sad.

Speaker 415:46

But the point isn't that they follow the rules.

Speaker 415:50

They got an education and they all finished school

Speaker 415:54

Underneath his till I can see the two plants

Speaker 415:58

When he dropped out of school, he never, never went back. Got the, got the, got the listen now. But he said, without an education, might as well be dead. Look here!

Presenter16:12

James Bryan, don't be a drop out. So the jam line up proper then was you, Paul Weller, Bruce Foxton and Rick Butler. Did you have a sense that together you were making something special?

Paul Weller16:24

Yeah, I think so, yeah. I mean, it took us a few years to do that, but no, we did, I think by sort of 76, 77, we'd been playing for such a long time by that time.

Paul Weller16:32

We've definitely got a sound together anyway.

Presenter16:34

Were you very clearly the leader of the pack?

Paul Weller16:37

Yeah, I think if you're the songwriter in the band I think you naturally are anyway.

Paul Weller16:42

The band's whole direction is decided by the writer, really.

Presenter16:45

So it was nineteen seventy seven, and there you were standing on the little stage on top of the pops with David the Kid Jensen saying, Here's the jam within the city. I mean, what that must have been sensational. How old are you?

Paul Weller16:58

I was eighteen then.

Paul Weller17:00

But it was it was sensational yeah, I mean, you know,'cause get again, I mean, I've been watching

Paul Weller17:04

Religiously watching him top the pops from, you know, mid sixties onwards.

Paul Weller17:08

So to actually be on it was like, wow, you know, to actually make a record to have this physical piece of vinyl in your hands, but the view music on it was just something else, you know.

Paul Weller17:17

It's kind of everything we'd ever sort of thought about or dreamt about came true.

Presenter17:21

There was a sort of I think it wouldn't be too strong a term to say a sort of rage in it. I mean there was there is there is a rage in the delivery, there's a rage in the environment you find yourself in. Did did you feel like an angry young man?

Paul Weller17:26

There is

Paul Weller17:33

Yeah, totally, yeah. Britain at that time, I mean, it was the start of Thatcherism.

Paul Weller17:38

There were strikes, there was power cuts, there was all that stuff going on, do you know what I mean? There was unemployment starting, there was all the race riots going on. So I think it was it was an angry time, I think. You know, I can't remember ever going to a gig at around that time without ever seeing a fight going off, or you know, it'd there'll be a point in time where it would just kick off in the audience. People were naturally angry, this kind of it's like it's our turn now.

Presenter17:58

Um the lyrics of Down in the Tube Station at Midnight, I'm sure they've been quoted back to you many times, they're very powerful about a man being beaten up down in the underground and beaten up by a group of lads who, as you wrote it, smelled of pubs and wormwood scrubs and too many right-wing meetings. That would stand on its own without any music next to it. When you wrote that, did you feel like you'd hit the jackpot?

Paul Weller18:04

Yeah.

Paul Weller18:22

I thought we'd gone somewhere different with it, yeah. I thought we'd taken the music to a different level.

Paul Weller18:27

But I think around that time I started to get more into lyrics, into writing lyrics, and a lot of them started out as kind of more like sort of poems or prose or whatever you want to call it, which I would then sort of edit and adapt into a song and try and you know fit some sort of rhythmic thing into it.

Paul Weller18:42

And I think the fact that that was successful, it just kind of spurred me on to other things as well. It's kind of, you know, sometimes you need success to do that, you know.

Presenter18:49

Did you did actually publish or edit a poetry magazine? I mean, you were quite serious about yourself. Yeah, did you?

Paul Weller18:53

Yeah, I did, yeah. Well, I think I was just sort of catching up on a lot of things I didn't bother with at school, really, you know, just like reading a book or um or reading some poetry and just being opened up to different influences really and different ways of writing as well, you know.

Presenter19:06

Tell me about your next piece of music now.

Paul Weller19:08

Well, I thought I couldn't really be on your show without playing a bit of classical music, really. So

Presenter19:11

But you do like it, I hope.

Paul Weller19:12

I do love I love this I love this I was gonna say a track I don't know is it can allow to call them tracks complex but anyway but um it's Daboosi's Arab best number one and the ch version I've chosen is by Bran from Masalis who put an album out called Romances for Saxophone probably twenty years ago.

Presenter19:16

Yeah, let's call it back and see.

Paul Weller19:28

But all the choices on their record and we've kinda got me into classical music.

Paul Weller19:32

Not in any massive way, but in a but certainly in a introduction to it as well, because he's a j is first and foremost is a j is a jazz player.

Paul Weller19:39

But yeah, it really opened up um opened up that a different world to me anyway.

Presenter20:43

Brantford Marsalis playing Debussy's Arabesque Number One with the English Chamber Orchestra. In the introduction I mentioned, Paul, that you were in these sharp black suits from Burton's as the jab. I mean, looking the part has always been

Presenter20:57

I mean, central to what you do, really. Why is it so important to you?

Paul Weller21:01

Well, only again, because just because I was obsessed with clothes, is as obsessed with clothes as I was with music, you know. I mean, as a kid, you know.

Paul Weller21:09

There was two two boutiques, as I used to call them them days, in Woken, which I would just sort of go and just look in the window for I could spend like hours just looking in the windows, just like Aladdin's cave to me.

Paul Weller21:20

And I suppose I'm and I'm still like it now, you know.

Paul Weller21:22

Do you have a stylist or do you style yourself? I dress myself as well.

Presenter21:28

But I mean for the album covers, and you know, a lot of people who are in the music industry have somebody who says, If you gotta wear the Doltry Gabbana or you gotta wear the Alexander.

Paul Weller21:31

We have somebody who says

Paul Weller21:34

That's just nothing. If you have to listen, if you have to have someone tell you what you should be wearing, I mean, I'm probably doing your five or six, but your mum does then, but, um

Paul Weller21:43

There should be out deciders to grow option, yeah. But I think I just love clothes, you know. Are you vain?

Paul Weller21:49

Yeah, I suppose I am actually, yeah. I tried to be less so'cause, you know, it gets more and more difficult to be vainer the older you get,'cause you get more lines and grey hairs and your body starts going all the rest of it, but I am, I am, it's true. And my dad is as well, so I obviously get it from him, I guess.

Presenter22:03

Are you one of those guys who spends a lot of time in the bathroom?

Presenter22:07

You know, is there hair gel? Is there eye cream? Is there all that sort of

Paul Weller22:07

Is that here?

Paul Weller22:09

Yeah, definitely, yeah. I do, yeah.

Presenter22:12

Good for you for saying that on Mike. I think there's a lot of things.

Paul Weller22:15

My name is otherwise, but

Presenter22:17

Um, so the jam we're shifting I mean, a lot of singles, sort of two hundred and fifty thousand odd singles you might sell potentially. I mean, just to give people an idea, now if you get to number one, you've maybe sold thirty thousand singles in those days.

Paul Weller22:24

Yeah.

Paul Weller22:29

Yeah, I know. I mean you'd be number one for ten years now if you sold it many records from it's incredible. But that was kind of pretty standard that time, yeah, every every single after a certain point anyway.

Presenter22:39

And you had a lot of big hits with the jam and it was December nineteen eighty two that you decided to break up the group.

Paul Weller22:45

Yeah. Yeah, I just wanted to move on as, you know, as I just as an individual I wanted to move on. I mean, it could be seen as a selfish move because, you know, you've kind of got other people and kind of rely on you as well.

Paul Weller22:55

But I just knew it was just the right thing for me personally to do, you know, I just wanted to move on and just see what else I could do musically and and in life is generally really.

Presenter23:03

What did your dad say when you told him?

Paul Weller23:05

I can't tell you exactly what he said'cause you won't be able to broadcast it on your show, but it was, you know.

Paul Weller23:11

Who just thought I was crazy?

Presenter23:12

And what was the future that you saw that you didn't want?

Paul Weller23:15

I didn't know and I didn't want to sort of see one, to be honest. I just wanted to go somewhere different and and try different things, things I wouldn't be able to do within the framework of the jam. So that first year after the jam split, eighty three was just it was just joy, it was just fun, it was just, you know, I'd go away to Europe for, you know, days or weeks or whatever and

Paul Weller23:34

Just live, anyway, just live a bit, you know.

Presenter23:36

And you set up the style council I mean mu much to the distress of a lot of people at the time. A lot of those Jam fans really couldn't stick it.

Paul Weller23:38

I mean what

Paul Weller23:40

A lot of those general

Paul Weller23:43

No, that's right, yeah. It was kind of real, it was all division, I think. Some people stuck with it and some and liked it, and other people just didn't get it at all and hated it.

Presenter23:49

I mean, they sound like the sort of professional flowering in all these hits. It sounds like a kind of golden time. Was it was it a happy time for you to wear?

Paul Weller23:55

You had a great time, yeah, I had a brilliant time then. I think for the first sort of two or three no, yeah, three or four years of the Starcast we had just fun. It was like being in a sort of gigantic moving youth club. It was just fun all the time.

Presenter24:09

Tell me about your next piece of music then.

Paul Weller24:12

This is by a young Irish singer-songwriter named Declan O'Rourke and it came out probably about two years ago and it's a beautiful track called Galileo.

Speaker 324:22

Galileo fell in love.

Speaker 324:28

As a Galilean boy.

Speaker 324:31

And he wondered what in heaven.

Speaker 324:36

Who invented such a joy? But the question got the better of his scientific mind

Presenter24:49

Declaner and Galileo. So we've spoken about this sort of golden period, if you like, and you also of course around about that time fell in love and and had your first child. Did did you feel like you were growing up? Did you feel it was a sense that you were moving on to a different part of your life?

Paul Weller25:07

Yeah, I mean that came a little bit later. I mean I think m I was thirty when when I had my first child, my son Nat.

Paul Weller25:13

With Day, with A C Leigh

Paul Weller25:16

Yeah, I'm a few having kids always match your grow up, doesn't it has to, you know.

Presenter25:18

And then something extraordinary happened, which was you made an album that your record company didn't want to release.

Presenter25:25

Was that I mean, was that like a cold bucket of water down the back of your neck?

Paul Weller25:25

I mean, is that like a

Paul Weller25:28

Uh

Paul Weller25:29

It was kind of sort of leading up to that anyway. And it wasn't I mean, it wasn't just about that record. I mean, they didn't like the record, they didn't want to release it, but it was also it was also about money as usual, anyway.

Paul Weller25:38

But it was probably a bit of a wake-up call for me anyway, I think, really. That's what I needed, really, to get back to reality again.

Presenter25:43

And what about the point at which y you couldn't really rely on your ability to write anymore? I mean, there was there was a moment when you just reached you hit a wall, really, when it came to writing.

Paul Weller25:52

Yeah, I mean it did it at all and I think I didn't really sort of do any writing for probably like a year or two years or something like that.

Paul Weller25:58

And it took me a long time to get back into it, really. And I think I only really sort of found myself again just through playing life to going out back out on tour.

Paul Weller26:05

And it it was almost like just sort of building up from from scratch again, really.

Presenter26:08

And where was your dad in all of this at this point? I mean, you'd had such a a a close and fruitful professional relationship. When you were at sea, was was what was he saying to you?

Paul Weller26:18

He was saying something very practical, and that was like, So we've got to get back on the road and earn some money. Um, you know, so he always said from very

Paul Weller26:25

Practical standpoint, don't think there's

Paul Weller26:28

You need people around again, you know.

Presenter26:30

Was he being more of the manager than the father, then?

Paul Weller26:33

Yeah, type of yeah.

Paul Weller26:34

Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Presenter26:35

Did you know when you got it back and you started writing the songs that were to go on to become your huge solo album hits, did you know you'd got it?

Paul Weller26:41

Hits did you

Presenter26:43

I mean could you judge in that way?

Paul Weller26:44

Can we do that?

Paul Weller26:46

To be quite honest, yeah, I did by the time we did I did Wildwoods, which was like the second solo album.

Paul Weller26:51

I kinda knew there were some songs on that I thought were really special. It just felt natural again. It felt natural to write again, you know.

Paul Weller26:58

And it felt very odd before that. It felt like almost like picking a guitar was just really weird and alien to me, but.

Paul Weller27:04

It just took a while to get back into it really.

Presenter27:06

That's incredible that you say, you know, picking up a guitar was alien. I mean, this for somebody who just seems as though music is your life, and really without it, you don't have much of life. Was it I mean, was it a kind of

Presenter27:17

Depression, did you was it a sort of I don't want to get out of the bed bed in the morning sort of stuff?

Paul Weller27:21

No, I wasn't get out of bed because I mean I always got out of bed, you know, I mean I've got I mean I had a small baby son as well, so you have to get out of bed, so that's you know, I'm a very practical person as well.

Paul Weller27:30

For me it was getting back to just sort of playing electric guitar again with a drum kit and a bass player and getting out and and and just doing it from the roots. And that's really what it's about, you know.

Presenter27:40

It's a curious situation, isn't it, when you're somebody with all the talent? Because of course, in a room full of people...

Presenter27:48

We will laugh at your jokes a little louder. We will wait to hear what you've got to say. People who have got the talent to entertain and the charisma to entertain are indulged.

Paul Weller27:51

Yeah.

Paul Weller27:57

Yeah, definitely true, yeah.

Paul Weller27:59

I think probably one

Paul Weller28:01

My little style was in its ascendancy back in the early nineties. I really noticed it then. So all of a sudden everything I said was was funny or interesting, which of course is impossible to be.

Paul Weller28:13

I was being very indulgent around that time anyway, so it probably kind of all went hand in hand in a way.

Presenter28:16

But it it's interesting that I mean, you had that huge wave of success with the jam and that didn't happen. You i it didn't appear anyway that you were somebody who was living the extreme rock and roll lifestyle. Well, I do think it was that when it came around the second time you thought, right, in for a penny, in for a penny.

Paul Weller28:31

Well, I think it's probably all that thing of sort of getting to a certain age as well, you know, it's kind of I don't know if it's a midlife crisis, but I mean, I was in into my thirties by that time.

Paul Weller28:39

I just enjoyed it all, to be honest with you. Do you know what I mean? It's kind of like, oh, I didn't do it the first time, I was going to do it now.

Presenter28:44

And what wa it was the drink and the drugs and all the stuff that goes with it?

Paul Weller28:46

Yeah, but um and I enjoyed every single moment of it as well, but

Paul Weller28:51

It's just not where I want to be now, you know.

Presenter28:54

Tell me about your next piece of music.

Paul Weller28:56

Um this is by Nick Drake and it's a beautiful song called Riverman.

Speaker 429:01

Gonna see the river man

Speaker 429:06

Gonna tell him all I can.

Speaker 429:12

About a plan

Speaker 429:16

For light time

Presenter29:24

Nick Drake and Riverman. So your father then was your manager for how many years?

Paul Weller29:29

It's only been the last sort of three or four years he's he's had to pack it in, had to retire. Just for age and and just and health, yeah.

Presenter29:35

Is that tricky then? Because I mean I imagine you've probably had a closer relationship than any artist and manager ever, given that he's your dad.

Paul Weller29:42

Yeah.

Paul Weller29:43

It is tricky, yeah. You know, it means I'm doing it myself now, which isn't that's not so difficult, I don't think,'cause it's all kind of up and running really.

Paul Weller29:50

But I dismiss him as an entity on beyond especially when on the road and just, you know, as a person and.

Paul Weller29:55

We were sitting in a hotel bar together and just having a laugh and just, you know

Paul Weller29:59

Because I mean apart from being my manager my and my father is also my friend as well, so it's quite a unique situation really.

Presenter30:05

Do you talk to him about aspects of your work still? I mean, would he I know you're recording it just now, would you would you play him what you're recording? Would you talk to him about gigs?

Paul Weller30:13

Yeah, I do, yeah, I do play it I do.

Paul Weller30:16

And he's always very full fight as he's always been as well, yeah.

Presenter30:20

Has he always liked what you've done?

Paul Weller30:21

X noise like this, that's why that's why I'm laughing.

Paul Weller30:24

I played him something the other day, which he definitely didn't like. I can't repeat it on your show, unfortunately.

Presenter30:26

Yeah.

Paul Weller30:29

Yeah, he's not one to mince his words for so long. I was like that in people, anyway. And does that matter to you? I mean, would you.

Presenter30:35

Would you take that into account now?

Paul Weller30:35

Would you take that into account?

Paul Weller30:37

No, that's all if I still like it, I like it anyway, as he knows.

Presenter30:40

And what about um music being a young man's game? I I I can't imagine that you look at the Rolling Stones and think I'd like to be them one day.

Paul Weller30:47

It's a real tricky thing. I mean, I'm kind of in that weird in between stage, you know, because I Well, you're going to be fifty next year, right? I'm going to be fifty next year, yeah. On one hand, I don't sort of feel like I should pack in'cause I've I'm working on a new record now and I think it sounds every bit as good as anything I've ever done before.

Paul Weller31:03

But then I saw Doolaka

Paul Weller31:05

The other generation beyond me and sort of thing, I don't know, doesn't look quite right really.

Paul Weller31:09

But then, if you love it and you're still into it, I mean, what are you supposed to do? I don't know. I mean, what else would the Rolling Stones do but be Rolling Stones? I mean, you know.

Paul Weller31:17

What would I do? Where else would I do, Lieutenant? you know.

Paul Weller31:20

I just love music so much.

Presenter31:23

And you live now you've got five children, you live now with your partner and two of your two youngest children. Um, is life mellower generally? I mean, do you feel that there's been a sort of softening of the edges

Paul Weller31:27

You're too young.

Paul Weller31:32

And I think that is all.

Paul Weller31:34

It's no, I don't know. I mean, I've I don't know if I've mellowed or not, I don't know. I mean, I don't find that my life is particularly mellow'cause it's with five children and

Paul Weller31:43

Especially young ones it was pretty sort of manic really.

Paul Weller31:46

But I quite as well, you know, I wouldn't sort of change any of it. What sort of father are you?

Paul Weller31:51

I'm pretty hands-on, I would say, pretty. I was pretty involved, I think.

Paul Weller31:56

And I love my children, they're my sort of saving grace, I think, really. I mean, it's time to sort of get really down or whatever.

Paul Weller32:02

Well just bored anyway, generally, but I think with kids it's just always something interesting, something new to find, you know.

Presenter32:07

Tell me about your final piece of music then.

Paul Weller32:09

Um this is by Roscoe Robinson. I mean and it's it's a sort of late sixties soul R and B track. I mean I could have chosen a thousand of these sort of songs, but um this one's good enough, I think, really. It's called That's Enough.

Speaker 432:23

I don't want security. I just want you to save your love for me. And that's enough.

Speaker 432:31

Baby, that's enough. That's enough, baby. Your love and your love and your love. For me.

Presenter32:51

Roscoe Robinson, and that's enough. So I will give you the Bible to take on to this island, and the complete works of Shakespeare, and you are allowed to take a book. What book will it be?

Paul Weller33:00

Probably um Absolute Beginners by Colin McInnes.

Paul Weller33:04

Because it's a mod Bible. The book's amazing, I think, yeah.

Presenter33:08

Okay, you may have that.

Paul Weller33:09

But

Presenter33:09

And then to make life a little more bearable on this island, I will give you a luxury. What will your luxury be?

Paul Weller33:16

Um

Paul Weller33:19

Set he, talk to sit on.

Presenter33:22

Not happy with the sand?

Paul Weller33:24

Well, it's just sometimes on a cold summer's evening where you might wanna sit on something a bit more cosy.

Presenter33:28

It's yours.

Paul Weller33:29

Part

Presenter33:30

And, um, if the waves were to threaten to crash to the shore and wash away your eight discs and you had to run and save one of them, which one would it be?

Paul Weller33:39

Probably out of loyalty, probably the smallfaces.

Paul Weller33:43

But on a musical level, probably Nick Drake.

Paul Weller33:46

Which is it?

Paul Weller33:47

Well, probably lo loyalty probably says the small faces.

Presenter33:50

Paul Weller, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Paul Weller33:53

My pleasure, thank you.

Presenter34:01

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.