Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Desert Island Discs
Presented by Roy Plomley
An American actress known for many excellent performances in London theatre.
Eight records
Noël Coward and Gertrude Lawrence
No reason given in transcript
No reason given in transcript
The keepsakes
No book or luxury recorded for this episode.
In conversation
Presenter asks
We've seen you give so many excellent performances and so many plays on the London Theatre that we are inclined to forget that you are in fact an American, aren't you?
Yes, I have. I was born in Nebraska, but was taken very early to California. My father was a superintendent of schools, and so there I grew up.
Presenter asks
What sort of impact did the London Theatre have on you? You weren't seeing it at its best. This was the end of the war, wasn't it?
Well, I was seeing it at its best. I saw the end of the fabulous old Vic company which was at the New, when Laurence Olivier and Ralph Richardson and Margaret Leighton and all of them were giving these marvellous performances.
Presenter asks
Now the cocktail party took you right to the top, but you still hadn't appeared in any of the classical repertoire.
The recording
Timestamps play the recording from that turn
Presenter
This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition of Desert Island Discs. The presenter was Roy Plumley.
Presenter
We've seen you give so many excellent performances and so many plays on the London Theatre.
Presenter
that we are inclined to forget that you are in fact an American, aren't you?
Irene Worth
Yes, I have.
Presenter
Whereabouts we want
Irene Worth
I was born in Nebraska, but was taken very early to California. My father was a superintendent of schools, and uh so there I grew up.
Presenter
Did you see a lot of theatre as a child?
Irene Worth
No, almost none. Uh my early experience was in music uh and opera.
Presenter
Yes. You took a degree in education, didn't you?
Irene Worth
Yes, I did.
Presenter
Did you in fact teach?
Irene Worth
I did. I taught kindergarten.
Presenter
Mm-hmm. How long for?
Irene Worth
Oh, just a few years.
Presenter
Yes.
Irene Worth
But I loved it. I think it's terribly important and I'm not sure that we don't underestimate the value of very, very early education. It's terribly important. I'm not sure that we spend enough money or have enough teachers for it.
Presenter
How was it that the theatre took precedent over teaching?
Irene Worth
I don't know how it happened. It just did, I suppose, that these things come out in us.
Irene Worth
without our really searching.
Presenter
Was it a sudden decision?
Irene Worth
I think it was. Yes, I'd been ill and I stopped teaching. I wanted to stop.
Irene Worth
And I did want to act.
Presenter
Mm-hmm. So what did you do?
Irene Worth
I went to New York. I had a friend uh who was in New York and who introduced me to a producer and I auditioned for a play.
Irene Worth
uh that Elizabeth Wergner was going to do.
Irene Worth
And I was accepted, fortunately, and she was so kind and so helpful, and believed in me so earnestly, that I had the most wonderful beginning any actress could wish for.
Presenter
Was this in New York or on tour?
Irene Worth
First on tour, and then just after that, the next season, I made my debut on Broadway with Wergner in The Two Misses Carrolls.
Presenter
Mm-hmm.
Presenter
And after that?
Irene Worth
Well, after that I was offered a leading role in a new play on Broadway.
Irene Worth
And I thought I'd better get out while the going was good, because I knew that I I knew nothing about acting, and I wanted to learn the basis of acting, which as far as I'm concerned
Irene Worth
in those days, was based upon the classical theatre, and therefore I had no chance to learn about Shakespeare in America alas, there were no theatres and I wanted the classical tradition of acting, and so I came to England.
Irene Worth
and I studied with Elsie Fogarty.
Presenter
Mm.
Presenter
Did you go to
Presenter
Uh drama academy?
Irene Worth
No, I
Presenter
Didn't
Irene Worth
Fortunately.
Irene Worth
Nor have I ever done the hard work of uh repertory companies.
Irene Worth
I was fortunate in being able to study with Elsie Fogarty before she died.
Presenter
Uh
Irene Worth
and she was an enormous inspiration and help and guide.
Presenter
What sort of impact did the London Theatre have on you? You weren't seeing it i at its best. This was the end of the war, wasn't it?
Irene Worth
Well, I I was seeing it at its best. I saw the end of the fabulous um old Vic company which was at the New, when Laurence Olivier and uh Rafe Richardson and Margaret Leighton and all of them were were giving these marvellous performances.
Presenter
What was your first opinion?
Irene Worth
They aren't on the break.
Presenter
British Date.
Irene Worth
Uh
Irene Worth
Well, I I think that it was at the Leary Cammersmith in uh the time of your life.
Presenter
Could play.
Irene Worth
Uh by William Soroyan.
Presenter
You did quite a lot of work in in the early years at the smaller experimental theatres like the Mercury and the Embassy and the Boltons.
Irene Worth
Yes, I did.
Presenter
What was the first really important thing to happen?
Irene Worth
Well, I suppose the cocktail party.
Presenter
Yes, yes, you you created the part.
Irene Worth
I create a ceiler, yes.
Presenter
And you played it in New York as well as in London.
Irene Worth
Yes, indeed. We rehearsed it for five weeks, uh with the feeling that we would only be able to do it for a week in Edinburgh at the festival.
Irene Worth
And then it became an international success overnight.
Irene Worth
And so we went to New York and then we came to London and did it.
Presenter
Mm-hmm.
Irene Worth
By then the original cast had broken up, but I I came back.
Presenter
Yeah.
Presenter
Now the cocktail party took you right to the top, but you still hadn't appeared in any of the classical repertoire.
Irene Worth
No, and I thought after the cocktail party, what what can be better? I don't know what I shall do. Everything else will be an anticlimax.
Irene Worth
But fortunately I went to the Vic and I played uh these wonderful roles. There's Demona and Porsche and Danie Macbeth and Helena and Midsummer Night's Dream and I don't know what all.
Presenter
Yeah the
Irene Worth
And so it was just wonderful, and I wasn't let down at all.
Presenter
And you went to both Stratfords, the one on Avon and the one in Ontario, which you helped to get started, didn't you?
Irene Worth
What you have
Irene Worth
Yes, added Guinness and I and Tony Guthrie.
Irene Worth
helped to create the uh first theater there in Under the tent.
Presenter
And you'll still find time to do modern clothes the Queen and the Rebels at the Haymarket.
Irene Worth
Yes, indeed.
Presenter
Recently, of course, the Knowle Card plays, uh Sweet in Three Keys.
Irene Worth
Yes, yes, yes.
Irene Worth
I enjoyed doing those very much. I enjoyed acting with Noel.
Irene Worth
He's the most marvellous person to be with on the stage.
Irene Worth
Right, he
Irene Worth
tries to improvise almost as though he had never done it before in his life, and so each evening is totally fresh.
Presenter
Thanks.
Presenter
And this year you have been at Chichester?
Presenter
What are your plans for the future? What have you in the book for the moment?
Irene Worth
We're doing Heartbreak House in London and I shall be very happy to doing that. But if you ask what do I want to do in the future, I would like to be in a modern play in which the women are acted by women, and I'd like to be one of those women.
Speaker 2
This would be reversing a current trend. Let's have a look.
Irene Worth
I'm absolutely terrified that men are acting everything now.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Irene Worth
There was a desperate moment last year when all the plays were written for men, but now the few plays left for women, the men are acting them as well.
Presenter
What do you feel is the function of the theatre now that now that television is churning out so much of what used to be called the well-made play?
Irene Worth
Exactly. And the well made plays are total deadlocks. It was no use to anyone except uh masterpieces which we wanted to to repeat. But in contemporary literature and the theatre we have got to experiment more and also the acting has got to uh
Irene Worth
Take into consideration the tremendous brainwashing, if I may say so, of films and television which have taught the audience so much.
Irene Worth
that now the audience is a jump ahead of every actor.
Speaker 2
Abriac
Irene Worth
Therefore the audience really wants to be in the position of a voyeur. I think the theatre should be much more like a documentary. It should have the urgency and the unexpectedness.
Irene Worth
that the the original theatre had when Shakespeare's audience came to the theatre they didn't know what was going to happen in Hamlet.
Presenter
Yes, true.
Presenter
Do you find it confusing now belonging to two countries, or are you really only happy in Mid Atlantic?
Irene Worth
No, I I don't consider myself belonging to two countries. Uh I I think this is my country.
Irene Worth
And uh it's been awfully kind to me and hospitable and taught me and given me so much.
No, and I thought after the cocktail party, what can be better? I don't know what I shall do. Everything else will be an anticlimax. But fortunately I went to the Vic and I played these wonderful roles. There's [Des]demona and Portia and Lady Macbeth and Helena in A Midsummer Night's Dream and I don't know what all.
Presenter asks
What do you feel is the function of the theatre now that television is churning out so much of what used to be called the well-made play?
Exactly. And the well made plays are total deadlocks. … But in contemporary literature and the theatre we have got to experiment more and also the acting has got to take into consideration the tremendous brainwashing, if I may say so, of films and television which have taught the audience so much … Therefore the audience really wants to be in the position of a voyeur. I think the theatre should be much more like a documentary. It should have the urgency and the unexpectedness that the original theatre had when Shakespeare's audience came to the theatre they didn't know what was going to happen in Hamlet.
Presenter asks
Do you find it confusing now belonging to two countries, or are you really only happy in Mid Atlantic?
No, I don't consider myself belonging to two countries. I think this is my country. And it's been awfully kind to me and hospitable and taught me and given me so much.
“I think it's terribly important and I'm not sure that we don't underestimate the value of very, very early education. It's terribly important. I'm not sure that we spend enough money or have enough teachers for it.”
“I knew nothing about acting, and I wanted to learn the basis of acting, which as far as I'm concerned, in those days, was based upon the classical theatre, and therefore I had no chance to learn about Shakespeare in America, there were no theatres, and I wanted the classical tradition of acting, and so I came to England.”
“He's the most marvellous person to be with on the stage. He tries to improvise almost as though he had never done it before in his life, and so each evening is totally fresh. [About Noël Coward]”
“I would like to be in a modern play in which the women are acted by women, and I'd like to be one of those women. … I'm absolutely terrified that men are acting everything now. There was a desperate moment last year when all the plays were written for men, but now the few plays left for women, the men are acting them as well.”
“The audience really wants to be in the position of a voyeur. I think the theatre should be much more like a documentary. It should have the urgency and the unexpectedness that the original theatre had when Shakespeare's audience came to the theatre they didn't know what was going to happen in Hamlet.”