Yoko Ono

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand seven.

Presenter0:27

My castaway this week is Yoko Ono. She was already a noted avant garde artist in her own right when she started dating one of the most famous men in the world, John Lennon. Then, depending on who you listen to, she either stole him from the nation or helped him to focus on what was important to them both.

Presenter0:46

For a long time she was publicly reviled but now, more than twenty five years after John's murder, and with Yoka herself, aged seventy three, the public perception of her is, at last, shifting.

Presenter0:58

Yoko Ono Paul McCartney said of you that he had initially thought that you seemed to be this cold woman, and then he added, I think that was wrong. She's just more determined than most people to be herself. Do you think that's true?

Yoko Ono1:11

Well, I think he was very kind to say that. Um but it's true. You know, your life is not to appease people, but to be yourself. My mother was always telling me that. And um that's what I was. I was just being myself. I was always like that, you know. It's how I was brought up, I think, yeah.

Presenter1:28

I mean, most of us most of us do care, don't we, what people think of us, as much as we might all pretend that we don't. In those initial days of your explosive fame, did you find people's attitude hurtful?

Yoko Ono1:42

Well, it was hurtful in a way, but um I had John beside me, which was um it did help. And also it seemed almost as if those things were happening in a distance.

Yoko Ono1:54

So all was said out there didn't seem to hurt that much.

Presenter1:58

I've been watching a lot of film in preparation for talking to you today, and I watched a little fascinating excerpt of you in your kitchen. And John looks at Camera and he says, Look, there's the wife of a Beetle making tea for one of the Fab Four. Now, of course, he's sending the whole thing up, but in a sense, he hit on a truth, as so many good smart jokes do, that actually you could never be anything other than.

Yoko Ono2:18

Very much so.

Presenter2:22

Yoko Ono, the wife of an ex-beetle.

Yoko Ono2:25

Exactly.

Presenter2:26

And that must have been difficult.

Yoko Ono2:28

Well, yes, but I didn't really feel that way at the time. The reason being that I was so independent and so myself.

Yoko Ono2:36

before I met John, and I kind of um felt good about relaxing a little and I was there loving him, that's all.

Presenter2:45

Tell me about your first record choice. What have you chosen?

Yoko Ono2:48

Oh, all right. Uh eat pière, non je neru créang.

Presenter2:53

And why have you chosen this?

Yoko Ono2:54

Well, the reason is because, first of all, my dad always told me that I was so small well, I was small even for Japanese actually, and feisty, like a Japanese, it is pia. And whenever I was down,

Yoko Ono3:08

I listened to this song in my mind and just felt better.

Speaker 43:13

No, yeah, yeah.

Yoko Ono3:16

What do you do?

Speaker 43:19

No, run a regular.

Speaker 43:24

Nila voma faire nil ma

Speaker 43:32

Samenya

Speaker 43:36

Uh

Speaker 43:37

Loria Lauria

Presenter3:43

Edith P. F. and No Jeaneré Crétrien, you were uh very much moving with the music there, Yokuo no, and you said you you feel it, it's the signature.

Yoko Ono3:51

I feel so much, you know, about this song. Yes, I regret nothing too. I.

Yoko Ono3:59

I don't really feel like I I had a choice always. I feel that um I just managed to uh survive.

Presenter4:07

Right. Let's explore the beginnings of that, because in the beginning it was not a question of survival. You were born into a very wealthy family with indeed aristocratic lineage, and yet your mother was very determined that you would become an independent little girl. That was the way she brought you up.

Yoko Ono4:24

Yes, it's uh amazing when you think about it, because when um I was evacuated in the countryside, most kids were evacuated. The time was very difficult, we didn't have enough food.

Yoko Ono4:36

And the war was going on and there were um planes coming and bombing places and everything. And my mother was saying, You know, you have to write about this. Just think about writing because you're a good writer and somehow I think it taught me to be objective about the situation. And that way of thinking about life.

Yoko Ono5:00

probably made it easier for me to cope with the situation where the whole world was against me or something, because I'm hmm this is a very interesting situation. I better write about it or I better put in my songs or, you know, whatever.

Presenter5:12

Yeah.

Presenter5:12

I mean, you were living as a child in Tokyo during the firebombing of nineteen forty-five. C do you remember anything of that?

Yoko Ono5:21

Well, yes, I do. But it's it's sort of a painful memory in a way.

Yoko Ono5:26

because um of all the things that happened.

Yoko Ono5:29

Um

Yoko Ono5:30

Well it it influenced my thinking as well.

Yoko Ono5:33

that things can change so suddenly. I remember one beautiful party and um

Yoko Ono5:40

We usually had a fortune teller or something, just to amuse the guests. And so my cousin, who was my cousin was a person who would inherit all of Yasuda's fortune or somehow. So he just showed his hand to the young fortune teller. And the fortune teller said, You're going to lose everything.

Yoko Ono6:01

And everybody just laughed and said, Well, how stupid! Because when Yasuda loses everything, that is.

Yoko Ono6:08

when Japan would lose everything.

Yoko Ono6:12

And that would never happen.

Yoko Ono6:14

Yeah.

Yoko Ono6:15

And of course it happened.

Yoko Ono6:17

Tell me about your next piece of music.

Presenter6:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Yoko Ono6:20

This is Lily Marlene, sung by Lail Anderson. During the First World War, the soldiers on both sides of the trenches in Christmas, one Christmas, it's a famous story, but um they just came out of the trenches and hugged each other, kissed each other and you know, singing songs together kind of thing.

Yoko Ono6:40

That was in the sec uh First World War, which is um a long time before the nineteen thirties, but in the thirties when um I was, I don't know, five, six, seven years old, and my mother used to tell me this story.

Yoko Ono6:53

Like a beautiful story, and I thought it was so beautiful. I just thought, why didn't they just stay as friends instead of fighting then?

Speaker 47:24

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 47:27

Yeah.

Presenter7:30

Lalla Anderson and Lily Marlena. You were saying, Yoko Ona, that you feel that maybe as a little girl listening to that the seeds were sown of this belief that actually art can bridge those gaps.

Yoko Ono7:40

I know, I was just amazed about that. Um at the time I didn't think about it that way. But I really think that this is an example of how strong music can be. It communicates and unite people. It's incredible.

Presenter7:53

Your family moved to America then in the nineteen fifties when you were pursuing what was a quite a conventional path through the the education system, and yet you become an avant-garde artist in New York.

Yoko Ono8:06

How did that happen? Well, you see, it's uh sort of unfair to say that I became an Arbangal artist in New York. My background and my inspiration comes from uh Asian culture.

Yoko Ono8:17

And I was influenced by that a lot, then Buddhism a lot.

Yoko Ono8:21

And it is surprising that I was really an avant-garde artist before I went to the United States.

Presenter8:28

Some of the art that you were staging at the time was described in in the the language of the day as happenings. One of them was called Cut Piece, where you invited members of the audience who'd come to see you.

Presenter8:39

Cut your clothes off, you gave them a pair of scissors. That's a very brave, bold statement to make. Did you feel like a brave and bold artist as you did it?

Yoko Ono8:49

That was a bit scary, but I just thought that this is the kind of work that has to be done.

Yoko Ono8:57

And for that I didn't mind taking the risk.

Yoko Ono9:01

And how were you if

Presenter9:01

yourself at the time. I mean, I read at that time you had uh suffered on occasion with depression. I mean, were you somebody who was finding it useful to express yourself through your art? Did did your art help you with whatever was going on inside?

Yoko Ono9:16

Well, yes, it was like my security blanket. And without that, I wouldn't have been.

Yoko Ono9:21

Sheer now.

Presenter9:22

Really, it was that important to you.

Yoko Ono9:24

It was very important, yes. I mean, I cared about my work so much that I never thought that I could make money with it or I never thought I w wanted to. How were you surviving financially? So, you know, sometimes well, lecturing, um and sometimes I you know, they they asked me to lecture about my own work, but that was very rare. It was always lecturing about Japanese um classic art, and I was very good at it. And also, I was um sometimes um working in a company as a typist. Um I was working as a waitress as well. But also I had my um pride as being an artist and it was great that way. I I felt very good because I was doing what I wanted to do.

Presenter10:10

Tell me about your next piece of music.

Yoko Ono10:12

Well, this is Liverpool Loo. It's a lullaby and uh.

Yoko Ono10:17

I don't know why, but just one day John in England sang Liverpool Lou and said, Isn't it beautiful? And you know, when Sean was born, he would just uh sing this song until Sean goes to sleep, almost every night.

Speaker 310:32

Oh Liverpool, lovely liver

Speaker 310:38

Why don't you behave just like other girls do?

Speaker 310:45

Why must my blue heart keep following you?

Speaker 310:52

Stay home and love me

Presenter10:55

Uh

Speaker 310:55

Uh

Presenter10:58

Dominic Bien and Liverpool Lew bringing back happy memories. Now, you first met John Lennon, I understand, at an exhibition that you were staging in a gallery in London, nineteen sixty six, I think it was. The exhibition was called Unfinished Paintings and Objects. What happened when you first met it?

Yoko Ono11:14

Yeah.

Yoko Ono11:15

Well, I had a show in Indica Gallery and it was a one woman show. And just after I finished putting everything together.

Yoko Ono11:24

John Dumber, who was um the owner of Indica Gallery, just came in with John. But I didn't know it was John, some guy, you know. I mean, most people would not believe I mean, they always say, Well, you must have known. No, I just didn't. And what did John Make of you

Presenter11:40

Yeah. Bruh

Yoko Ono11:40

But

Presenter11:40

Yeah.

Yoko Ono11:41

Uh

Yoko Ono11:42

Well, he came in and he just went downstairs, and I saw that they were standing in front of the uh

Yoko Ono11:49

Explain that pink.

Presenter11:51

Yeah.

Yoko Ono11:52

Hammer nail in painting is there's a nail in a glass jar.

Yoko Ono11:57

And there's a hammer dangling.

Yoko Ono12:00

On the side of this, just a white block of wood, actually.

Speaker 412:05

Ten.

Yoko Ono12:05

and by many people hammering the nail, and gradually the painting will become a different painting than just a block of white wood.

Presenter12:14

And so did did John Lennon engage in this participation? Did he hammer the nail into the wood?

Yoko Ono12:20

Well, no, uh he said, could I have my nail in? And I said, um, no, because this is before the opening and I want to keep it clean.

Yoko Ono12:29

Then I thought, no, no, you can do it if you pay, I think, five shillings. And that's because the the night before I was thinking about the opening. I thought, what am I going to do? Because my work is conceptual.

Yoko Ono12:43

So nobody's gonna buy them.

Yoko Ono12:45

So how am I going to uh justify my existence as an artist, or whatever. So then I thought, Oh, a good idea to make them pay to do these things, little things.

Yoko Ono12:57

And he didn't pay five shillings. He said, Well, you know, uh i is it all right if I uh have an imaginary nail in and um uh pay an imaginary money.

Yoko Ono13:09

25 shillings.

Presenter13:10

So he kind of beat you at your own game on that when he's

Yoko Ono13:12

Yeah, exactly. So I said, all right, you know, he's playing the same game I'm playing.

Yoko Ono13:17

I thought um he was very beautiful and very elegant.

Presenter13:21

He was already married when you met. And it was eighteen months before you became a couple. There was the disint integration of his marriage to Cynthia Lennon and and you came together and and it happened extraordinarily over one night. You recorded a was it a whole album over one night, which became Two Virgins.

Yoko Ono13:38

Yes, that was just

Yoko Ono13:40

Well, he invited me and I I went up up to his house and already we by then we knew that we sort of uh well, we were madly in love with each other actually. So it was all right that I would go to visit him in a kind of late nightish time, you know.

Presenter14:02

Cynthia Lennon said at the time, I knew immediately I saw them together that they were right for each other. I knew I'd lost him. Did you think that you had met your soulmate? Did you know that this was the man who was the man for you?

Yoko Ono14:16

I think that, um

Yoko Ono14:19

Yeah, yes, you know, it uh

Yoko Ono14:22

1967 is when we started to sort of touch base with each other. And I felt

Yoko Ono14:31

Scared about it, actually.

Yoko Ono14:33

What were you scared of? Well, g getting involved.

Yoko Ono14:37

about the fact that he was a Beatles. So th that started to sort of dawn on me that it's a little bit different situation and I might lose my freedom. And then everybody was so upset with us, so that they made stories. What were they upset about? The fact that we were together.

Yoko Ono14:55

And why would that upset them?

Yoko Ono14:58

I have no idea.

Presenter15:02

Do you think there was a degree of racism?

Yoko Ono15:07

Do you think there was misogyny for the Well the racism was always there, but I don't know. It was more than that. It was something about John being um

Presenter15:08

Well the rate

Yoko Ono15:18

Their treasure or something. And then, you know, it seems like I stole that from them or something like that. It was so.

Yoko Ono15:24

Shocking.

Yoko Ono15:26

I I just didn't understand why that was happening really.

Presenter15:30

Tell me about your next piece of music.

Yoko Ono15:32

Well, that's Bob Marty, One Love, One World, One People, and such a beautiful song that you know I have n no word for it really.

Speaker 415:46

What a hair.

Speaker 415:48

Let's get together and feel alright.

Speaker 415:54

Hear the children crying Hear the children crying saying give thanks and praise to the Lord and I will be alright Saying let's get together hands

Presenter16:11

Bob Marley and One Love. You got uh married. You had what was it called? A Bed Inn for Peace was your honeymoon. I mean it was very famous. It was all over the news. You were set up in in Germany in a Hilton hotel, nineteen sixty nine, and you invited the world in to share your honeymoon.

Yoko Ono16:17

Honeymoon, yeah.

Yoko Ono16:19

Pre new

Yoko Ono16:27

Yes. Why? I'm going to have to leave somebody do that.

Presenter16:28

Why? I'm going to have to make somebody do that.

Yoko Ono16:32

Well, we thought that we were doing a good thing, you know, and we were very narcissistic about it and I think great, great, you know, and and

Presenter16:41

Oh, that's very interesting to hear you say that you were very narcissistic about it.

Yoko Ono16:44

Well, let's say that I'm a narcissist, probably. Otherwise, how could I just go on like this?

Presenter16:50

So you invited people in because you thought we are interesting enough to merit ten hours a day of being filmed and you invited journalists to come and talk to you, many of them extremely confrontational with you. Yeah, they were. Uh

Yoko Ono17:02

But yes.

Presenter17:02

I mean, their objections were what, that you that this was a sort of vacuous publicity stunt.

Yoko Ono17:08

I know it's crazy because did we ne need any more publicity? I mean, personally, we didn't.

Yoko Ono17:15

And you know, in hindsight, I think that we did a very good thing. People had.

Presenter17:20

the difficulty with what it was that John was starting to say. They seemed to have difficulty with the fact that this lovable mop top in his nerve jacket had now turned into this

Presenter17:31

long haired, bedraggled political activist and of course they thought, Well, it's her. She's done it. She's turned his head in that way. We want him back They they wanted what he was before, didn't they?

Yoko Ono17:41

Well, he was a very, very strong man, extremely so, and um I think that he was dying to be like that way before he met me.

Yoko Ono17:51

And he just became himself.

Yoko Ono17:54

Tell me about your f

Presenter17:54

Fifth piece of music. What have you chosen?

Yoko Ono17:55

What have you chosen?

Yoko Ono17:57

This is called When I Grow Too Old to Dream, and it has a very personal memory for me.

Yoko Ono18:03

Ah one day

Yoko Ono18:05

I just felt like I wanted to

Yoko Ono18:07

Call my mother.

Yoko Ono18:09

And I said hi, and she said, Oh yoko and just the way she said it, I felt that there was something very strange about it. And she was saying, I I just fell ah I just fell in the kitchen.

Yoko Ono18:24

Or something like that. And I thought, this is serious. So I thought, well, I had to do something. But I was in New York and she was in Japan, so you know, I said, Okay, mommy.

Yoko Ono18:34

Let's sing that song. Remember that song that you used to sing? And I started When I Grow Too Old to Dream.

Yoko Ono18:43

And she went, When I grow No, no, okay, let's start again When I grow, you know and I kept repeating it, and she finally

Yoko Ono18:56

Sung the whole line.

Yoko Ono18:58

And I was so choked up.

Yoko Ono19:01

And so I immediately told my assistant to call Tokyo and get the hospital and get the ambulance, go to my mother.

Yoko Ono19:10

And she was saved.

Speaker 419:15

Ooh, to dream I'll have you to remember.

Speaker 419:28

And I vote.

Presenter19:42

GRACY FIELDS AND WHEN I GROW Too OLD TO DREAM. So, Yoko Ono, let's talk a little bit more about your relationship then with John Lennon. I mean, it wasn't a a straightforward one. You you in fact broke up for what is known rather fabulously as the Lost Weekend, which in fact stretched on for some months. How how many months were you apart?

Yoko Ono20:02

Ah, well, you know, some people say it was twelve month and fourteen month and eighteen months. I mean, I don't really know. You you can check it one day, I suppose. We were just feeling um like our life was um

Yoko Ono20:16

a becoming a routine.

Yoko Ono20:18

And I didn't think that we should waste our time on that.

Presenter20:22

Now, of course, the circles you moved in and and John himself spoke uh about uh the amount of drugs that he took, the amount of drink I mean, he was drinking at the same time quite heavily when he spent this time apart from you. He he sounded as if he was pretty miserable.

Yoko Ono20:32

Uh

Yoko Ono20:33

He wasn't drinking w when um he was with me. I think that was great in hindsight that I um gave him the freedom.

Yoko Ono20:42

So he just did whatever she thought that she couldn't do when we're together.

Presenter20:47

And of course drugs culture was a huge part of the sixties and seventies. I mean, y you seem so much to be a woman with your head screwed on in the right direction. When it came to drugs, did you take lots of drugs? Did you try all drugs at the time?

Yoko Ono20:59

Well, yes, I did too, I suppose. But um I started to feel at one point that it wasn't really fun.

Yoko Ono21:09

Yeah.

Presenter21:09

And so would that have been over a period of years or was that in

Yoko Ono21:12

Yeah.

Yoko Ono21:14

And what was it you were coming off?

Yoko Ono21:16

Well, that was the the big one.

Presenter21:19

Which was her

Yoko Ono21:19

Bern.

Presenter21:19

Yeah.

Yoko Ono21:20

Yes, Smack.

Yoko Ono21:21

But, you know, then luckily, uh we never injected because both of us were totally scared about needles.

Yoko Ono21:29

So that probably saved us. And the other thing that saved us was our connection was not very good. And the connection kept giving us a lot laced with baby powder. In fact, we smelled talcum powder and we said, what is this? you know but that saved us actually. Many rock stars they had very good connections and we would visit them and you know they would have a big bowl of powder and we if we did something then you know we'd be so sort of

Yoko Ono22:06

Well, so high actually, we we couldn't even walk straight, you know. And we were thinking, is this what they're doing every day?

Yoko Ono22:14

You know, and we weren't doing it that way. I mean, we didn't have a connection like that.

Presenter22:19

A lot of people, of course, uh didn't leave it behind. There are a lot of corpses scattered on that particular road. How did the two of you manage to to leave it behind?

Yoko Ono22:27

Well, one is that the fact that John was extremely strong-willed person and we just went cold turkey.

Yoko Ono22:35

Tell me about your next piece of music. Okay. Beautiful Boy. Well, because I love most of um John's songs. Well, I said most of just to make make it sound right. But actually, um I love all of his songs, really.

Yoko Ono22:50

But I chose this because of Sean, you know, and I really appreciated the fact that John made this song for Sean. And of course John didn't know that he was gonna pass away very soon.

Yoko Ono23:04

So I think it's important to play this one.

Speaker 423:11

Before you cross the street

Speaker 423:16

Take my hand.

Speaker 423:20

Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.

Speaker 423:29

Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful eyes

Presenter23:36

John Lennon and Beautiful Boy written of course for your son Sean Yoko. Were you happy when you found out you were pregnant?

Yoko Ono23:45

Not really. I I thought, well, um

Yoko Ono23:50

It s it sounds very s strange now, I suppose. But I thought, well, I should um let John decide whether I should keep it or not.

Yoko Ono23:58

Why was that?

Yoko Ono24:00

Well, because she just came back and we just got together and uh I became pregnant very soon. And um I didn't know whether i i i it was the right moment to have a child because maybe

Yoko Ono24:16

He didn't want to.

Yoko Ono24:18

I just didn't want to burden him with something that he didn't want.

Yoko Ono24:22

So you did actually, just to be clear, you did actually have that conversation with him. I did, and he said, of course we're going to keep it. Like he was very upset with my remark.

Yoko Ono24:32

And I thought, well, yes, then we'll go go ahead with this.

Presenter24:35

And so when Sean was born then the decision was made that that John would be the house husband and that you would take care of business. I've looked at footage of film of of uh John at home with Sean in the papoose and dancing round and singing to him and feeding him his bottle. I mean, it looks idyllic. Wa was it a very happy time for you?

Yoko Ono24:54

It was in a way his idea was when we should make $25 million because that's what in the papers it said that Paul made 25 million. So well, we have to make 25 million. All right, give me two years. And that was a real matcha remark on my part, because I realized that I couldn't make it. So finally I said, well, could I have five years?

Presenter25:18

Um it is maybe your greatest hidden talent that you are a very, very astute and capable businesswoman. I mean, you managed your money not only well, but spectacularly well. You made millions.

Yoko Ono25:32

Well, I don't know. I mean, no, it just happened. Oh, that's not true, is it? It didn't just happen. It did not just happen.

Presenter25:35

Oh, that's not true, is it? It did not just happen. Surely.

Yoko Ono25:39

I was very lucky, that's all. Yeah.

Presenter25:42

When Sean was five then, uh John had said that when Sean was five he would start making uh music again, and indeed he did. He started uh recording, given that he literally hung up his guitar for five years. Was there a lot inside?

Yoko Ono25:48

Yeah.

Yoko Ono25:53

People

Yoko Ono25:55

Um he was writing some songs, but he wasn't that pleased with what he was writing. And then in nineteen eighty I just said, Well, look, you're always talking about going on a trip on a yacht, so you should do it.

Yoko Ono26:10

And he did that, and something opened up. And when he went to Bermir, they started to write these beautiful songs. So he returned.

Presenter26:18

after that trip, and it was uh december the eighth, nineteen eighty, that he was returning from the studio with you that evening, going to your apartment building. Um are you able to tell us what you remember of that evening?

Yoko Ono26:32

Well, it was a sort of slightly warm, warm night.

Yoko Ono26:37

And uh

Yoko Ono26:39

I said uh shall we go and have dinner or something before we go home?

Yoko Ono26:45

And he was saying, No, let's go home because I want to see Sean before he goes to sleep.

Yoko Ono26:51

And it was like he wasn't sure whether we can get get home before he goes to sleep. Maybe he's already gone to bed or something. He was concerned about that. But that's the last thing he said then.

Yoko Ono27:04

that he wanted to see Sean.

Yoko Ono27:07

As you are an

Presenter27:07

Entering uh the building, he was shot. Di did did you have any time to talk to him? Did he have time to say anything to you? When he was shot? After he was shot?

Yoko Ono27:16

The X

Presenter27:18

Yes.

Yoko Ono27:18

Yeah.

Yoko Ono27:21

It was a very hard time for me.

Yoko Ono27:26

But I was concerned about how it would affect Sean.

Yoko Ono27:31

I just couldn't tell him that night, actually.

Yoko Ono27:36

When were you able to tell him?

Yoko Ono27:38

Much later. I mean, not much later, but yeah, it's not that night and

Presenter27:40

Yeah.

Yoko Ono27:43

Shall we take a break for some music?

Yoko Ono27:45

Yeah, okay, let's go to music.

Yoko Ono27:48

So now, Sean

Yoko Ono27:52

is a very accomplished musician, singer-songwriter, and I like this song very much, but in a way it's very painful for me to listen to this song, but somehow it does attract me. I mean this song attracts me always. It is a song of loss and pain.

Speaker 428:13

As no one ever felt this pain Has no one ever been betrayed?

Speaker 428:23

Is there anyone?

Speaker 428:28

Who knows the skin

Speaker 428:38

Someone, somebody.

Presenter28:43

Sean Lennon and Magic, and written, you think, Yoko Ono, in response to the the grief and uh loss of losing his father. How much do you worry about Sean's safety?

Yoko Ono28:54

Uh

Presenter28:54

Wait.

Yoko Ono28:54

Oh that's a concern too, yes, of course.

Yoko Ono28:59

But I try not to be concerned because um

Yoko Ono29:04

It's better not to focus on a negative um image of anything.

Yoko Ono29:12

Yeah.

Presenter29:12

It's a curious experience talking to you because you seem to have an innate optimism. You seem to be somebody who has taken life on on your own terms. But at the same time, there has been this great circus, this great side show that has travelled along with you because of the Beatles.

Presenter29:28

And because of your love affair with John Lennon, how much are you realistically able?

Presenter29:33

to retain a a sense of self when all this criticism comes your way.

Yoko Ono29:37

Well, I suppose um

Yoko Ono29:39

I have an incredible sense of myself, and that's the only reason why I was able to.

Yoko Ono29:47

So why?

Yoko Ono29:48

I'm not surprised if I'm vilified again when I'm away. I

Yoko Ono29:53

pass away. But um I just want to say to my two children.

Yoko Ono29:58

Not to defend me.

Yoko Ono30:01

I don't want them to waste their time defending me.

Yoko Ono30:04

Don't even think about the past or your mother.

Yoko Ono30:07

Because your mother had a great life and you should know that.

Yoko Ono30:13

It seems too much to ask a child to do, to not defend their mother.

Presenter30:16

Well

Yoko Ono30:20

After John's passing, it was my pleasure, actually, to keep on.

Yoko Ono30:25

Protecting his work, and I cherish the fact that.

Yoko Ono30:30

I feel that I did my best.

Yoko Ono30:33

But

Yoko Ono30:34

At the same time, most of my time was um spent on that.

Yoko Ono30:39

And I feel that um

Yoko Ono30:41

Sean should not be bothered with it. It's too much of a a burden for him. I mean, there's such a heavy past that he's already burdened with.

Yoko Ono30:53

I just like to believe that

Yoko Ono30:55

He's working up there for for us and I'm working here with him still.

Presenter31:00

Is there a dialogue, do you?

Yoko Ono31:02

Yeah.

Presenter31:02

Do you speak to him?

Yoko Ono31:03

Somewhere?

Presenter31:03

Yeah.

Yoko Ono31:03

Yeah.

Presenter31:03

Yeah.

Yoko Ono31:04

Well, I mean, when I was listening to this beautiful boy.

Yoko Ono31:09

I felt that John just jumped out from the corner saying, Good idea, that was a good idea to select a beautiful boy.

Yoko Ono31:18

And he's always there somehow so jumping out and saying things.

Presenter31:22

I mean, in the past ten years, your exhibitions have won a series of awards a very prestigious awards. Um your recent album was very well received. You seem to be you know, you're showered with all these honorary doctorates. Um do you like being liked?

Yoko Ono31:36

Well, you know what it is? The energy that was put into those works was the result of my life in a way. And so that those energies, if that would be any help to people,

Yoko Ono31:49

and inspire people and encourage people to make their own, I'd be very happy.

Yoko Ono31:56

Tell me about your aches and

Presenter31:56

The final record.

Yoko Ono31:58

This is a very young women's group in Iceland.

Yoko Ono32:03

And Iceland happens to be my new love, really. It's a beautiful, beautiful country.

Yoko Ono32:09

There's a purity about it. And so when you go there

Yoko Ono32:13

You get a whiff of clean air and good clean water. I mean, it's just a beautiful, beautiful, magical country.

Presenter32:53

Amina and Sol.

Yoko Ono32:56

In conclusion.

Yoko Ono32:58

I want to give you my affirmation. Go ahead. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for the beautiful planet we live on and enjoy, in the most interesting, exciting, and enlightening time of the history of the human race.

Yoko Ono33:14

Each of us was born at this time to fulfil a mission.

Yoko Ono33:19

Together we are in a process of healing and creating a better world for the lives of the planet.

Yoko Ono33:27

Our work is not yet done, but it will be done soon. For good of all concerns, so be it.

Presenter33:36

So I will give you for this island the complete works of Shakespeare and the Bible, if you wish to take them. I don't know if you do. But you're also allowed to take a book of your own. What would you like to take?

Yoko Ono33:41

If you do

Yoko Ono33:45

Well, um, Sayuki, which is a a Chinese story, it's a very profound and fun Chinese story, and it really changed my life when I was a little girl.

Presenter33:57

Okay, you may have that book. You are also allowed to make life on the island a little more bearable, to take a luxury with you. What would your luxury be?

Yoko Ono34:04

My luxury item is my life of the next thirty years.

Presenter34:11

I don't have the heart to turn that down, although I don't know if it would be possible to give you it. Um and if the waves were to threaten to crash to the shore and and wash away your disks, which one would you run through the sand to save?

Yoko Ono34:22

Double Fantasy, in which John had that beautiful boy song in it. Yoko Ono, thank you very much for letting us hear.

Presenter34:29

Your desert island discs.

Yoko Ono34:31

Thank you.

Presenter34:39

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.