Ben Helfgott

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand seven.

Presenter0:27

My castaway this week is Ben Helfgot, a concentration camp survivor whose inspirational journey has taken him from the horrors of Nazi occupied Poland to the heights of Olympic glory.

Presenter0:39

When he left the Theresienstadt concentration camp in 1945, he was fifteen years old and a walking skeleton.

Presenter0:46

Within ten years of arriving in the UK, he was representing his adopted country on the World Sporting Stage at Weightlifting.

Presenter0:54

His physical strength is matched by an extraordinary emotional fortitude.

Presenter0:59

His mother, sister and father were murdered by the Nazis, along with twenty-seven other members of his family.

Presenter1:05

His response was not only to make the most of every opportunity that came his way, but to make sure that the world would never forget the genocide.

Presenter1:14

Ben Helfcott, can you start by explaining how it was that you found yourself on board a plane flying into Britain in the months after the war had ended?

Ben Helfgott1:23

Well, what happened was I stopped in Tredenstadt where I was liberated, and I was told by my friends with whom I was liberated that they will be going to England. Well, when I heard that they'll be going to England, I mean that was something that was music to my ears, because England, as far as I was concerned, was the country that I loved and from my early childhood.

Ben Helfgott1:48

And so

Ben Helfgott1:49

I found myself on the plane,

Ben Helfgott1:51

To England.

Presenter1:53

How come you were invited to England at that point? Why was there a plane taking you there?

Ben Helfgott1:57

Well, there was a committee that approached the Home Office to bring in survivors to this country. So the Home Office gave permission for a thousand children to be brought to this country. And the first lot of three hundred were in Derekenstadt, so we were the first group to come over.

Ben Helfgott2:15

though he came here to Windermere.

Presenter2:17

Yeah. And there were in the end seven hundred and thirty two of this group who became known as The Boys. You were one of the seven hundred and thirty two. What were your first impressions when you got there?

Ben Helfgott2:27

Heavenly. It is something so special. The place itself, mountains around us. The first night when I slept under sheets after at least three years when I didn't sleep under sheets and slept under terrible conditions, it was something so special.

Presenter2:44

Were you able to orientate yourself? Were you able to act normally, if you like?

Ben Helfgott2:51

Well, I think most of us did. We immediately started having lessons. We went to the cinema, we went hiking, we went swimming, it was just very special.

Presenter3:02

So at that point there was more you were more preoccupied with optimism than despair at at what you had gone through.

Ben Helfgott3:09

During the day

Presenter3:09

At the end of the day,

Ben Helfgott3:12

Anybody who observed that would never have believed what we went through.

Ben Helfgott3:17

There was another story. When we went to sleep, different things happened because most of us were still living with the trauma.

Ben Helfgott3:27

And I was living with a terrible trauma because I kept thinking about my father. I was separated from him on the eleventh of December, nineteen forty-four. And at that time, he was still in a very good condition. And just like I survived, I expected that he would survive. But somebody told me that he was together with my father on the death match. And a few people decided to run away, and my father was one of them. They were all caught and they were shot.

Ben Helfgott3:59

And I was living with this horror, you know it.

Ben Helfgott4:02

And it for took me a long, long time to overcome it, because my father

Ben Helfgott4:08

Of my hero.

Ben Helfgott4:09

He did such great things during the war he defied the Germans at every stage, because he smuggled in large quantities of flour into the ghetto.

Ben Helfgott4:20

And at every stage he showed tremendous courage. In the end,

Ben Helfgott4:27

this discourage in a way.

Ben Helfgott4:31

betrayed him and uh he didn't have to run away, but it was just in his blood. He had to do something.

Ben Helfgott4:38

And there it was the last minute life evaded him.

Presenter4:43

We will talk in a lot more detail about your father's courage and indeed your own courage a little later, but first of all let's hear about your first piece of music.

Ben Helfgott4:50

Yeah.

Presenter4:50

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott4:50

I've chosen El Gab because to me this represents the glory and majesty of what Britain was and I still feel. I'm steeped in English history. I am an Anglophile through and through and I love Britain.

Presenter6:07

Elgar's March number one in D Major, Pomp and Circumstance. You have said in the past, Ben, that you made a decision not to hate the Germans. How did that come about? Where did that impulse come from?

Ben Helfgott6:21

Well, I have never hated anybody. I just don't know what hatred means.

Ben Helfgott6:26

And I'm easy to forgive. My father was an extremely liberal minded person. My mother was very strict, but very devoted to us. When I was a child I was brought up in a home

Ben Helfgott6:40

Uh where they were not

Presenter6:41

And my dear Rank.

Ben Helfgott6:42

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott6:43

Yeah.

Presenter6:43

Your young childhood then, you were growing up in Poland in the nineteen thirties. Um do you have much recollection of those carefree days?

Presenter6:52

The very early days.

Ben Helfgott6:53

Yes, of course. Of course. I I was a very happy child. I love to play. I love to play with with the the children. I look back with great nostalgia.

Presenter7:04

And was being Jewish central to your life? Was that an important part of family life in those early days?

Ben Helfgott7:09

Yes.

Ben Helfgott7:10

Yes, very much so.

Ben Helfgott7:12

So I used to go to school from eight o'clock till one o'clock, came home at lunch, and from two o'clock till five o'clock I went to the Jewish school. And since I was very serious, a serious child, so I I accepted it.

Ben Helfgott7:28

I accepted it completely.

Presenter7:28

Please.

Presenter7:30

Tell me about your second piece of music, The Isle of Capri. Why have you chosen this?

Ben Helfgott7:35

Well, this is um it was the year 1939. Uh it was a terrible year because um the papers were always full of what was going on in Germany. German Jews were being expelled, they came back to Poland, they were and um the Jews and who lived in Palestine were being killed. So there was constant talk about what's going to happen. And I was so interested because I kept reading the papers and I was very concerned what was happening, and I understood at that moment that I no longer a child. And there, in the midst of all this, I kept hearing

Ben Helfgott8:12

This lovely, beautiful song, The Isle of Capri, and it has stayed with me all my life.

Presenter8:18

And this would be when you were around about age nine. Yes. Let's hear it.

Speaker 48:25

I love happy that he found her beneath the shade of an old wall not free.

Speaker 48:38

On the Isle of Captain.

Speaker 48:41

He was as sweet as a rose at the dawning moon, but somehow fate hadn't meant it to be.

Presenter8:54

Gracie Fields in the Isle of Capri. You said something fascinating when the music was playing, which was it it for you it captured the moment that you lost your childhood.

Ben Helfgott9:05

Well

Presenter9:05

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott9:05

I compare myself today when I see my grandchildren and I look at them. I simply can't believe that I was the same age that they are.

Ben Helfgott9:15

Because they are children, they behave like children. I did not behave like a child. I already was very responsible of what was going on around me. I understood the meaning of life in a way that a child does not understand. And then the war came and of course that immediately accelerated it.

Presenter9:34

And so, as you describe it, the loss of childhood began with what, in a practical sense, what happened to your family?

Ben Helfgott9:41

Uh

Presenter9:41

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott9:41

Well, my town, Piotkov, was the first ghetto, so as soon as the Germans came in, at the end of September, there were announcements that Jews have to move in to Ghetto. It really affected me very badly, the very thought that I was not safe anymore, that no one is safe any longer. And this was only just the beginning.

Presenter10:03

Can you give me some sense of what it was like for your family uh living in the ghetto? And I'm talking here about the the physical restrictions, the comfort. What what was what was day-to-day life like?

Ben Helfgott10:14

Well, we we were more lucky than others. We had um

Ben Helfgott10:18

A kitchen.

Ben Helfgott10:20

And we had one large room where we could live and eat and sleep and everything. And um twenty eight thousand Jews were living in an area where before the war between four and five thousand people lived. There was no peace. But in between this we lived. And my father right from the very beginning immediately set about smuggling in food into the ghetto. That means flour. And because of it

Presenter10:47

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott10:47

We

Presenter10:48

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott10:49

Yeah.

Presenter10:49

We're better off. It must have been a huge risk that your father was taking to smuggle the flour into the ghetto. What would have happened to him if you'd been afraid of the money?

Ben Helfgott10:54

Yeah.

Presenter10:57

The fee

Ben Helfgott10:58

He would have been caught.

Presenter10:58

That would be.

Ben Helfgott10:59

He would have been shot. Did your mother support him? No. My mother used to beg him.

Ben Helfgott11:05

to not to do it, because Thump Dumpty didn't come back

Ben Helfgott11:09

for a day or two. And in the meantime we heard people are being shot. And then I could see how my mother was suffering. And I joined in with my mother and begged him to stop. So my father laughed and he said, I'd like to see how long you will talk like this if you have to live just on potatoes and salt. And that was his reply. And so even today, when I think about it, the pain is as great as ever. He was thirty-nine years old, and he had so much to live for.

Ben Helfgott11:38

Let's

Presenter11:38

Let's take a break then. Tell me about your search.

Ben Helfgott11:40

What piece of music the m

Presenter11:40

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott11:41

Next proof.

Ben Helfgott11:42

Yeah. That says Kronidre. It is almost a sacred event for Jews once a year. And I look back over the years, the pre war years,

Ben Helfgott11:55

And it was a nice life, but it was also a life.

Ben Helfgott11:59

Where everybody was worried about what the future was going to be, and this Ko Nider, in a way,

Ben Helfgott12:06

The song itself is simplified.

Presenter13:08

Part of Max Brux Kolnidre. You stayed in the ghetto in Pyotrakov until 1944, and that was well.

Presenter13:17

Over a year after it had been liquidated. Why was that?

Ben Helfgott13:21

Deportations started on the fourteenth of february, nineteen forty two, and they took place over a period of one week, during which time

Ben Helfgott13:31

Twenty two thousand Jews from the ghetto were deported to the gas chambers of Tublinka, and two and a half thousand were left. Those who were left behind

Ben Helfgott13:42

li uh living in a smaller ghetto consisting of two states, two half states, right on top of one another.

Ben Helfgott13:50

And there we lived for one year, I was working in a glass factory, and my father and I and my little sister, my sister Malab,

Ben Helfgott13:59

I had two things that one was killed.

Presenter14:02

Can you tell me what happened to your mother and one of your sisters?

Ben Helfgott14:06

Well, my mother and my sisters were in hiding.

Ben Helfgott14:11

That meant that they were illegal, because only those who were working were legalized. Anybody else had no right to live.

Ben Helfgott14:23

And the Germans knew all about this because they had their collaborators. And they announced that everyone who has returned to the small ghetto, who wasn't illegal, should register, and they will be legalized because they need

Ben Helfgott14:37

people to work, and of course they'll get rations.

Ben Helfgott14:41

So they did. No sooner had they registered, they were rounded up.

Ben Helfgott14:47

And amongst them was my mother and my younger sister Lucia, who was nine years old.

Ben Helfgott14:53

And so they were all taking about five hundred and twenty, five hundred and fifty.

Ben Helfgott14:58

People, most of them women and children.

Ben Helfgott15:03

And they were taken to the synagogue, and we could see what was going on there all the time during the two two weeks or ten days that they were there.

Ben Helfgott15:11

and the Germans were deliberating what to do with them.

Ben Helfgott15:14

My father managed to get a permit for my mother to be freed, but he couldn't get a permit for my sister to get freed. And I remember the correspondence between my mother

Ben Helfgott15:26

And my father, my father begged her to come out, and my mother said, You got to look after the children, and I look after Lucia.

Ben Helfgott15:34

And then the decision was made but and this was on the twentieth of december nineteen forty two. They were taken out to the nearby wood on a Sunday morning and they were all shot.

Ben Helfgott15:50

Were you aware at the time?

Ben Helfgott15:54

It was the Bush telegraph. And in within minutes we knew it.

Ben Helfgott15:59

I'll never forget it.

Ben Helfgott16:01

When my father came in,

Ben Helfgott16:04

And I looked at his face.

Ben Helfgott16:06

And I didn't have to ask.

Ben Helfgott16:09

It was terrible.

Ben Helfgott16:11

She lived for us.

Ben Helfgott16:13

She was the most wonderful footballer.

Presenter16:18

So Ben, tell me about your fourth piece of music.

Presenter16:23

The Shabbat

Ben Helfgott16:24

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott16:26

Every time I hear that song, a shudder goes down my back and I can't help thinking not just about my mother, about the mother of all those who survived. And this song, I'm pleased that I don't hear it often, but when I do hear it, in a sense, I'm pleased to hear that. I think of my mother often, but this evokes other memories, beautiful memories, the way she was.

Speaker 416:58

May Yiddish Mama

Speaker 417:04

I need her more than ever now My Yiddish mama

Ben Helfgott17:10

My yeah.

Speaker 417:15

I'd love to kiss that wrinkled brow I long to hold her hands once more As in days

Presenter17:28

Sophy Tucker and my Yiddisha mamma. We have all seen the pictures, of course, over the years, Ben, of uh the piles of shoes that represent the people that were killed.

Presenter17:39

The difficulty is, of course, making those horrors, those figures, those tens of thousands that were killed in the genocide real, of making it personal. Is it

Presenter17:50

Very important to you to tell the personal stories of people who are involved.

Ben Helfgott17:55

Absolutely, because they we can't bring them back, but their memory has to stay alive. And their memory has to be stay alive, not just for them, but for posterity. The present generation must learn what has happened and pass it on to others, because what has happened is something that has never happened to anybody, and I hope and I pray that it'll never happen to anybody else.

Presenter18:25

When you were taken out of the ghetto, as you described it, and then on to Buchenwald, describe that to me. What actually happened there? How how did the course of events go?

Ben Helfgott18:36

Well, we we were sent there in order to be sent to another uh concentration camp, to a factory where they were producing an anti tank weapon. But in the last minute when they called out our names, for some reason my father and a few others

Ben Helfgott18:52

were left behind.

Ben Helfgott18:53

And I was the only boy who was not with his father. That must have been a horrible shock for you.

Ben Helfgott18:58

Well, we travelled for about a day and a half, and during that period I never stopped crying. I just could not overcome the thought that I was separated from my father.

Ben Helfgott19:11

What did you think lay ahead?

Ben Helfgott19:13

Well, I we didn't know where we were going.

Ben Helfgott19:16

We didn't know at all where we were going. We didn't know what place we were going to.

Ben Helfgott19:20

But we came to a place which was hell.

Ben Helfgott19:22

Describe it to me.

Ben Helfgott19:24

Well, when the people returned from work

Ben Helfgott19:28

We just couldn't believe what we saw. They looked like walking dead people and their clothes was completely intattered, life was falling off them.

Ben Helfgott19:40

Their hair was overgrown.

Ben Helfgott19:43

There was no comparison. They were completely emaciated.

Presenter19:47

Given that you are living on so much less than even the bare minimum, this starvation diet, where do your resources come from under those circumstances? Do you think that it is

Presenter19:57

Sheer force of will? Is it strength of character? What was it that kept you going under those circumstances?

Ben Helfgott20:01

First of all, we knew that any day we're going to be liberated because the Germans they brought the newspapers with them.

Ben Helfgott20:10

We were not far away from from Dredden, and we were there when Dreddton was bombed.

Ben Helfgott20:15

and we could see the skies in the distance it was red.

Ben Helfgott20:20

And all this gave us a lot of hope.

Presenter20:22

I'm very interested to hear your experience of liberation, of the day that it happened. Can you take yourself back there? Can you remember?

Ben Helfgott20:30

I can remember vividly.

Ben Helfgott20:33

Early morning of the ninth of May.

Ben Helfgott20:36

It must have been about um six thirty in the morning where my I shared a bunk with another boy. He woke me up and he said, We are free.

Ben Helfgott20:48

So of course I jumped up at rest.

Ben Helfgott20:50

And I ran out and that's was something very, very special.

Presenter20:55

Tell me about your next piece of music they have on a gila. Why have you chosen that?

Ben Helfgott20:59

Well, this is something very special because here we were, end of 1947.

Ben Helfgott21:06

listening to the United Nations voting for a Jewish state and a Palestinian state.

Ben Helfgott21:13

And what a wonderful feeling that was

Ben Helfgott21:16

And after such a great catastrophe, where six million Jews were killed, and then suddenly we heard at last there's going to be a state,

Ben Helfgott21:26

And so we celebrated, and we celebrated and we claiming songs, and half a nagila really gives the the meaning of it all.

Speaker 421:36

I give up

Speaker 421:53

Ha bon dera nikna, a bonera nikna, a bon dera nikna a bonna.

Presenter22:03

Havana Gila, salvation has come. I said in the introduction that you had experienced Olympic glory um at two Olympic Games, nineteen fifty six and nineteen. What did you do?

Ben Helfgott22:13

56 and 60. 56 and 60. What did you do?

Ben Helfgott22:16

Weightlifting. I was very keen on sport. I did every sport.

Ben Helfgott22:21

But until I was about fifty,

Ben Helfgott22:24

Whether I played squash, whether I played tennis, whatever I did, I played to win because I was very, very competitive. But weightlifting, I was introduced by chance.

Presenter22:34

And and also you were during that time, you were four times British champion at weightlifting.

Ben Helfgott22:38

At weightlifting.

Presenter22:39

I mean, it seems utterly impossible, Ben, that somebody who had endured such physical suffering and such physical deterioration would manage to to rebuild himself. Did you feel it was a challenge, or did it come naturally to you?

Ben Helfgott22:39

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott22:53

Well, it it well, it came natural to me. Also, it it's a challenge. And when I look back, I am really very lucky that I was able to achieve what I did because I didn't spend all the time on because I had to

Ben Helfgott23:06

Work and even when I was picked to compete

Ben Helfgott23:10

in world championships of of another country. The British Weightlifting Association was very poor and I was told that they haven't got money that I should pay for my fare.

Ben Helfgott23:21

And I was very happy to do it. I was honored that I was representing my adopted country. The most important thing is that I could compete and I could and I could

Ben Helfgott23:30

And I could enjoy it. Tell me about your sixth choice, then.

Ben Helfgott23:35

The opening of the 1956 Olympic Games, Melbourne. That was a very special opening because it coincided with my birthday. And so it was very emotional. And as I marched and thought of my parents, I thought how proud they would have been of me 11 years ago I was at the point of death and here I was not only live and kicking, but I was representing my adopted country. There was sadness, at the same time exhilaration.

Presenter24:11

That's good.

Presenter24:13

For rights reasons, we can't play Olympic coverage.

Presenter24:17

The opening of the 1956 Olympic Games in Melbourne. And uh it was your birthday on that day, Ben Halfcott, but no cake for you, I gather.

Ben Helfgott24:25

That fact

Ben Helfgott24:27

Well, because my body weight was natural body weight was um eleven stone, 154 pounds, and I had to be within one hundred and forty eight and three quarters. And I had only three, four days to go to my competition. So others had the benefit of it, but we just none of us had the party afterwards. So it was really a lovely, lovely day for me.

Presenter24:49

We haven't spoken about family, and family is so central to your life and has been for many decades. Now, you met your the woman who was to become your wife in the mid sixties. It seems incredible that that given what you went through, you have been able to sustain this uh long and and very loving relationship.

Ben Helfgott25:06

Uh

Ben Helfgott25:08

Oh well, on the contrary, on the contrary, I lost so much, and I felt that I must make up for it.

Ben Helfgott25:16

It doesn't always happen. One isn't always lucky. One needs luck. I and I know that the element of luck is there. I was very fortunate to meet my wife because we've been married now for forty-one years and I must say my love to her today is stronger today than it was even the first day when I met her. We were blessed with three sons and I'm very grateful to her. So yes, I am I'm very fortunate.

Presenter25:44

How important a figure was Mangla the other sister who survived the war?

Ben Helfgott25:50

Well, she's very close to me.

Ben Helfgott25:54

And and our relationship is close.

Ben Helfgott25:57

We see each other a lot, and I love her dearly.

Ben Helfgott26:02

Tell me about your seventh record. What have you chosen? Um the C tennis, uh Nessundorma. I could have picked any of the opera pieces because they're so lovely, they're so inspiring, and I love listening to them.

Ben Helfgott26:17

And when I think about serenity, like I think about my family, what better song can it be than that?

Ben Helfgott26:25

Exemplifying what my family is all about.

Speaker 326:42

Father Sene Allah.

Speaker 326:52

Canoa

Speaker 426:55

Peace and all

Presenter27:26

The three tenors and Nessen Dormer from Puccini's Turin Dot. You're seventy seven now, Ben, and you still travel the world talking about your experiences, and you were indeed instrumental in establishing

Presenter27:39

a permanent Holocaust exhibition back home here in Britain. You seem somehow sort of propelled, motivated by the horror that you witnessed, and it seems vital to you that the world must not forget.

Ben Helfgott27:54

That is absolutely right.

Ben Helfgott27:56

I love people.

Ben Helfgott27:58

and I cherish my friendships.

Ben Helfgott28:01

and I cherish love to humanity.

Ben Helfgott28:04

I think this is what it's all about, and that is why.

Ben Helfgott28:08

All the death.

Ben Helfgott28:10

I have been, first of all, very closely connected with all with survivors, survivors who came to this country.

Presenter28:18

So the relationships that you formed in those times have re I mean they have extended all the way through your life. They have lasted a lifetime.

Ben Helfgott28:25

Yeah.

Ben Helfgott28:26

Yes, we are like brothers and sisters. Uh we are a family because we lost our parents and we came together here and therefore when uh anyone got married we were the ones who used to be on the survivor side.

Presenter28:43

Do you understand the phenomenon of survivor guilt?

Presenter28:46

Do you understand where that comes from in in somebody's

Ben Helfgott28:49

Of course I understand the survivor guilt because one always feels that m that that that one one survives because somebody else close to him or her did not survive. And they say, Why me? Why not you? And that that of course but the fact remains that that is how it is. Those survivors who survived by lucky chance

Ben Helfgott29:10

They have a duty.

Ben Helfgott29:12

to to to go out into the world and to talk about it.

Presenter29:16

So it is not a question of rationalizing it, it is simply a question of accepting that this is the case and moving from that.

Ben Helfgott29:22

Absolutely, because what is the point? What do they achieve by just holding back on them and and flagellating themselves? But that is wrong. Because we have survived, we have this duty.

Presenter29:31

You have said in the past that each year as you get older it it gets worse, you say it haunts me more.

Presenter29:37

Why is that?

Ben Helfgott29:39

It's it's because I suddenly realize, I keep asking myself why did it happen? Why did it happen? And that's why I've been involved at every stage with the with the Holocaust Memorial Day, with the National Task Force for Holocaust Education, Research and Remembrance, and since we started with the Holocaust Memorial Day.

Ben Helfgott30:02

We've made tremendous progress.

Presenter30:04

I asked you a few moments ago about being haunted by what has gone before in your life.

Presenter30:10

Given the fact that you are haunted and as you get older you say that that gets worse, is it impossible for you to find peace?

Presenter30:18

Oh, I've a

Ben Helfgott30:19

Always found peace in myself.

Ben Helfgott30:21

I I have learnt to live with the part of my life right from the very beginning.

Ben Helfgott30:26

And the reason why I've been able to carry it out was because I never pushed it away. I lived with it. I want to live with it.

Ben Helfgott30:34

So I am at peace. Oh, if I would not be at peace myself, I could never be the person that I am. I wouldn't be able to do so many different things. I wouldn't be able to devote myself to causes which I think are sacred to me.

Ben Helfgott30:47

Tell me about your final piece of music.

Ben Helfgott30:51

It's the last part of 8005. Uh it is a call for freedom.

Ben Helfgott30:58

call for to the future, to be optimistic, to look forward, to work together and to live in harmony. And to me, whenever I listen to it, I can see the beautiful world that can be.

Ben Helfgott31:13

And unfortunately, some of the elements don't allow it to happen. But we must fight against these elements. We must never let them get away with it.

Presenter32:21

The ending of Beethoven's Symphony No. Nine, The Choral. So, Ben, you get the Bible, or of course you're welcome to take the Torah instead, and the complete works of Shakespeare. You have to choose one other book to take. What will it be?

Ben Helfgott32:33

Well, it's a very big that's a very hard choice because I'm a great book lover and I thought and thought about it and came to the conclusion that I would pick The History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell.

Presenter32:49

And the luxury. You're allowed something to make life on this island a little bit more easy to bear. What would your luxury be? Well.

Ben Helfgott32:56

I think he'll have a good laugh at that.

Ben Helfgott32:59

See, I believe in fitness.

Ben Helfgott33:01

Okay. And I've always kept myself fit.

Ben Helfgott33:04

No, I would need in order to do my training, I would need a power

Ben Helfgott33:09

With a bit of weight.

Presenter33:10

Okay, we'll give you a full set.

Ben Helfgott33:11

No, no. No, I don't need much because I I mustn't do that. I I my work is different today. Okay. At the time I was training, I wanted to be stronger and to lift more. Now I want my heart to be strong. I need a bar with two dis

Presenter33:27

That you can

Ben Helfgott33:28

Small dis

Presenter33:29

I'm going to make you choose just one record. What would be the one record you would save if you had to?

Ben Helfgott33:34

Well, I I feel that the three tenets, um nethandoma, would be with me so that I can think of my family. Ben Helscott, thank you.

Presenter33:44

Thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Presenter33:48

Thank you.

Presenter33:56

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.