Gloria Hunniford

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and six.

Presenter0:28

My cast away this week is one of our most popular broadcasters, Gloria Haniford. Her warm ulster brogue and easy charm on air go some way to explaining the success of a career in radio and television that has spanned more than forty years.

Presenter0:42

What's less obvious is that her work ethic and determination to get the job done started early. From the age of eight she was performing in church hall variety shows. And, after a spell of singing musical requests live on air, she became the first ever woman to have a daily show on Radio Two, all this whilst being a wife and mum to three children.

Presenter1:03

More recently, it's in her role as a mother that the highly polished professional has made way in public for the personal. Her daughter, the television presenter Karen Keating, fought determinedly against breast cancer for seven years, and after she died, Gloria's moving account of her experience touched tens of thousands of people. Gloria, I want to talk to you about your family, and indeed about Karen, of course, later on, but it strikes me.

Presenter1:25

You must have been

Presenter1:27

Almost at the vanguard of women who tried to have it all, to combine both a a proper career with hands on motherhood. Were you always determined to do that?

Gloria Hunniford1:36

I'd like to t

Presenter1:36

True.

Gloria Hunniford1:36

Elliot was

Presenter1:37

There was a plan.

Gloria Hunniford1:38

But it wasn't. The Elster work ethic, um which you referred to was very strong. It was taught to me because if I, for example, had been sitting at home doing nothing, just reading a book or just idling away, my mum would have said, What are you doing? Go and do something. But it wasn't my plan. I sort of slid into everything really over the years. My father was a newspaper man by day, but a magician by night, which was a magical mix, literally, for a child. And from the age of five, I guess, I begged to go along and stand side stage to watch my dad, because there he was with the razor blade trick and the Chinese rings and rabbits coming out of hats. And to me, of course, I mean, he was my dad, for goodness sake, and he could do all of this. And I just thought all of this was basically what I wanted to do.

Presenter2:25

Before we go to your first musical choice, the what about this live singing request show? I can think of nothing that would fill more. Most people.

Gloria Hunniford2:33

Yeah.

Presenter2:34

With horror than the idea that what did people called in and said Gloria sing as Danny Boy or sing as is that

Gloria Hunniford2:42

But you've got to remember, of course, that I was singing at all this home-spun entertainment stuff in terms of church halls and that kind of environment. And to cut a very long story short, I mean, basically, if you could sing an Irish song and tune, you were on. And so, within a very short time, the radio station, one of the radio stations I was working for, gave me this 15-minute request programme. You've never seen anybody learn so many Irish songs so quickly in all your life. Can you remember what the most requested was? 40 Shades of Green or Irish Eyes Are Smiling. Tell us what your first disc is. My first record really relates to a very good family friend. I have known him for hundreds of years, it feels James Galway. And when Karen died, he was just bereft and used to ring me a lot. And I'd say to him,

Gloria Hunniford3:33

I don't understand it. I, you know, I just can't get to grips with any of it at all. And he'd say to me, maybe you just don't know the answer yet. He's very wise in some ways, and he gives great advice. And of course, he is just one of the best musicians in the world. But what I admire about Jimmy is it doesn't matter how classical and how serious his programme is, he always finishes his concerts with the Londonderry Air. Always.

Presenter4:30

James Galway and the London Berriere, which we also know of course is the tune to Danny Boy, and you were saying during that, Gloria Hannaford, that he even plays the flute before breakfast.

Gloria Hunniford4:37

She does, actually. Sir James, of course, and Lady Galway, his his wife Jeanie, and they played the flutes together before they had

Presenter4:45

Have the same

Gloria Hunniford4:45

Uh

Presenter4:45

Ariel in the morning. Let's talk a little about you as this pint-sized performer then. It was always apparently in the jeans. You wanted to get up and you wanted to show people what you could do.

Gloria Hunniford4:55

I wouldn't say from the very beginning that I stood out I had a wonderful voice. I suppose as a child I must have thought I had a wonderful voice, but I used to spend hours and hours standing on a chair in our kitchen at home with one of the old Begalite radios up on a shelf. And I used the principle that if I could hear them, that they must be able to hear me. So I wanted to do it sufficiently that I, in my soul, I must have had some little flicker of ambition. So I would learn maybe four or five songs and then I would go out with my dad. And I loved doing it. Did you earn money for doing it?

Presenter5:26

Said you

Gloria Hunniford5:28

My first pay was seven and sixpence, and I always wrote down what I wore.

Gloria Hunniford5:33

and how much I got paid, because my Dad always wrote down his tricks, and so he said to me start a book. So I would write down wore yellow taffeta dress, paid seven and sixpence, sang, buttons and bows, powder your face with sunshine, and the Isle of Innisfree. I had a perfect record, which I still have to this day.

Presenter5:50

It was interesting that obviously your mother didn't work. She worked in the home. Your dad didn't mind you going out to work and earning money.

Gloria Hunniford5:56

No. But my mum never seemed to grumble about having to stay at home. And, you know, on reflection, my mum never went out unless it suited my dad to babysit.

Presenter6:06

It was a Protestant

Gloria Hunniford6:07

And home. Yeah.

Gloria Hunniford6:07

Very much a Protestant home. My father was an Orangeman.

Gloria Hunniford6:11

But he was very staunch in that even when I got married, for the first time I'm talking about John, of course, he wouldn't come to the wedding because and you would understand this coming from Scotland, there's always that element of what would the neighbours say or, you know, the people in the Orange Lodge wouldn't like it. So your mother didn't come? No, she didn't, because again, if my dad wasn't going, my mum wouldn't come either. Did she ever talk about that? Um not directly. It was one of those things that uh once the wedding was over, um they did really treat Don like a son. But a neighbour told me

Gloria Hunniford6:45

That it was one of the worst days of my mom's life. You see, that that was just typical of the era. They

Gloria Hunniford6:51

Toad the line, as it were. You and I would never go along with that these days. We wouldn't. What's your next record? Well, Van Morrison, of course, very much relates to Northern Ireland. And this particular song, Have I Told You Lately,

Gloria Hunniford7:03

It comes into your soul on many different levels. Karen, when she got married, had this as a song to have her first dance, and it became a family song. And so when Stephen and I got married eight years ago, we had it actually in the church.

Gloria Hunniford7:19

But it's very meaningful to me for obvious reasons, and I think Van Morrison's version is the best.

Speaker 47:26

Have I told you lately that I love you?

Speaker 47:34

Have I told you there's no one

Speaker 47:41

Your heart is badness.

Speaker 47:44

Take away my statue

Speaker 47:48

He's my troubles, that's what you do.

Presenter7:52

Van Morrison and Have I Told You Lately? So the early days then in Portadown in Northern Ireland, there you were in the forties and fifties and and religion was a an entrenched, a very important part of life. How often did you go to church?

Gloria Hunniford8:05

Well, I went to church five times on a Sunday, but you've got to remember that this was our social life, and because I was a singer I wanted to be in the choir, of course. And Porterdyne was locked up on a Sunday. I mean, there is a a well known saying about I spent a week in Porterdyne one Sunday, and that would be about right because even the swings in the park were tied up.

Gloria Hunniford8:24

So I would have gone to junior service, as we called it, in the morning, because I sang with the junior choir. Then I would have gone to senior service. We all sort of went on in a true

Gloria Hunniford8:33

Then in the afternoon Sunday school, and then back home in the evening for our tea, as we would have called it on a Sunday, and then back to church in the evening, and then after that there was a Christian Workers' Union prayer meeting.

Presenter8:44

Now

Gloria Hunniford8:44

Yeah.

Presenter8:44

That's a lot of churching on a Sunday. But did the religion make its mark? I mean, was it fire and brimstone that was preached, or was that all entirely insignificant as far as you were concerned?

Gloria Hunniford8:54

A lot of it was tradition until I was about thirteen, and then the American Evangelists came to town these charismatic men in their black silk suits and their big hats, and it would have been the Billy Graham period of time.

Gloria Hunniford9:08

And they will agree.

Presenter9:08

Did Billy Graham himself come?

Gloria Hunniford9:09

Yes he did.

Gloria Hunniford9:11

And it was very powerful. And I really remember the feeling of total elation to this day. And a lot of that faith remained. And it has stood me, of course, in great stead. And since Karen died, many, many people have said, Didn't it shake your faith? Didn't you really question God? Yes, of course you do. But my faith was so important to me and still is to this day. So I can joke in a little sense about the man in the black suit and the big hat. But on the other hand, a lot of what was portrayed to me at that time stuck. And I love going into a church, even if there's nothing happening, just to sit in the quietness of that.

Presenter9:50

Uh

Gloria Hunniford9:50

Yeah.

Presenter9:50

See you next record.

Gloria Hunniford9:51

My next record is Oh, the one and only Doris Day.

Presenter9:54

And why?

Gloria Hunniford9:55

Well, when I was growing up in Port of Dan, we had three cinemas, so we saw a lot of movies. So, in some ways, I think that ambition to

Gloria Hunniford10:04

To be successful at something was all part of the cinema routine. I mean, we didn't have a proper bathroom at this point, but when I'd see in the movies these luxurious bathrooms and fridges and all those luxury things that we didn't have, I think there's a little part of me as a child thought I could have that one day. But Doris Day was always the one. I knew all the songs. I would come home and sing all those songs. I loved her clothes as I got older. And then in 1993, I got a call from a friend of mine who works a record company and said, Would you like to go and interview Doris Day? Well, to cut a very long story short, again, I was on that plane within 24 hours. She looked just the same. A little bit thicker in the middle, like myself, but just the same. And she was fabulous. That really, career-wise, is one of the highlights of my life.

Speaker 410:52

You can call me a fickle thing But I'm practically yours forever because to be kissed Move over into you how can I resist Move over darling, you've captured my heart And now that I'm no longer free

Presenter11:21

Doris Day and Move Over, Darling, from 1963. Memories there of those regular cinema visits for your fix of glamour, and also the exclusive interview that you managed to land with her. When you were 17, something very important happened. You swapped life in small-town Port-A-Down for a much more expansive existence. You managed to get yourself to Canada. How did that happen?

Gloria Hunniford11:42

Well, when I was about nine I came home from school one day, and there was this wonderful looking, tall, white haired man standing with my mother at the door. I'd never seen him before in my life, and it turned out to be

Gloria Hunniford11:52

her uncle James, and he hadn't been home for forty years. He'd left uh Northern Ireland to make his fortune and had come back traditionally to look up his Irish family. And so therefore my whole interest in Canada was born at that point. Did you?

Presenter12:07

Did you have to persuade your parents when you were seventeen to let you go?

Gloria Hunniford12:11

Most definitely. But they said we'll let you go as long as you promise to come back for Christmas. And it was one of the most exciting times of my entire life because I I witnessed at first hand how how comfortable people were with all nationalities and all creeds and all cultures and all beliefs and so therefore internally that changed me completely and allowed me to have a broader vision. So while you're in Canada then you managed to get this little radio slot? I did so I thought stardom had arrived. I thought

Presenter12:39

Next stop might be Hollywood. It's really interesting that you say next step Hollywood, because I look at your background of of performing and the fact that you could turn your hand to singing at the drop of a hat and the fact that you didn't have any problem with an audience. The stage must surely have been an option, or it must at least have been a fleeting thought.

Gloria Hunniford12:55

Not really. Funnily enough, by that stage I think I was on the solo kick anyway. I was up there doing my bit on my own, singing my songs on my own. So in a way, I didn't I don't mean this to sound awful that I didn't want to be a team player, but once I think once you start to become a solo artist, whatever age you're at, that's certainly where my mind was focused. I am one for a challenge, and I do feel although luck plays a huge part in it being in the right place at the right time.

Gloria Hunniford13:25

That you have to then work very hard, and I am ambitious in that sense, in that whatever I do, I want it to be the best I can make it.

Presenter13:32

It's interesting you use the word ambition because quite often and I'm sure you must have been in interviewed by many journalists over the years who might have asked you with a certain steely glint in their in their eye, Do you think you're ambitious, Gloria Peter?

Gloria Hunniford13:44

Pe people don't people feel quite uncomfortable with

Gloria Hunniford13:46

I call it focus.

Gloria Hunniford13:49

That's my word for it. I focused. What's your next record? My next record takes me absolutely back to the ship going to Canada. It was called The Empress of Canada. Almost as soon as I got on board, I of course looked up what was on the movie list. And Gigi had just been released. Well, I couldn't believe my luck. It was this brand new film. And I went to see it almost immediately, starring, of course, Leslie Caron. In years to come, I was to spell my daughter's name after Leslie Caron. And I loved the movie. And I've subsequently always loved the overture from the film because it just gives me all the memories of the movie all the way through. And it's a lovely dipstick, if you like.

Presenter14:59

The overture from the soundtrack to Gigi. So you do eventually come home from Canada after about a year or so, Gloria, and you although you see your hometown differently and your parents differently, you do what every good Ulster girl did. You were twenty one, you met a nice man, you married

Gloria Hunniford15:15

Did you settle down? I didn't do all of that immediately, I have to say, because when I came back from Canada, I really had left most of my clothes behind. I came back for Christmas as promised, but I was going to go back in the spring. I had enough money for my return ticket. But my father had noticed that Ulster Television had a very good job going at this point.

Presenter15:33

Was he trying to keep you at home?

Gloria Hunniford15:34

Very much so. And U T V had opened up while I'd been away in Canada. So this was the commercial station, of course. And in my head, I said, if I get this job, I meant to stay. And if I don't get it, I meant to go back to Canada. And that's how I made the decision. I got the job. What was the job? The job was a production secretary. So that really was the deciding factor. And Don, my first husband, he worked in Ulster television as well. That's where I met Don and then started to have my children.

Presenter15:49

What was the job?

Presenter16:00

And so you were twenty one when you got married, and and as you said, your parents didn't come to the wedding?

Gloria Hunniford16:05

No, but it was a happy wedding nevertheless with all our friends Mulster Television and my sister came and my brother turned up and so that and and lots of other members of my family. So it was a very good day despite the fact that my parents weren't there.

Presenter16:19

Is it true that you had to give up your job when you married?

Gloria Hunniford16:22

Yes. Um we belonged to the same department and so they had a rule that husband and wife couldn't work in the same department. So I had to leave. And I was happy to leave though because I had started to sing again and had had the opportunity of doing a bit of singing in front of camera. So that burning ambition started to come to the fore again.

Presenter16:40

Your next record.

Gloria Hunniford16:41

My next record is Frank Sinatra. And when I was working on Radio Two, if I was ever down in the dumps at all for any reason and I saw Frank Sinatra in my running order, I was thrilled because he immediately makes me feel good.

Speaker 316:55

Make a brand new start of it in old New York

Speaker 317:04

If I can make it there, I'll make it.

Speaker 317:12

Anywhere it's up to you, new your

Presenter17:23

Do I really need to say what that is? Frank Sinatra and New York, New York. And as you were saying, if ever you were down doing your Radio Two show, you looked in the running order, saw Frank Sinatra and thought everything's going to be fine. There we were, Kirsty, strutting our stuff with New York, New York. You are absolutely a natural at it. You have that knack. I mean, of course, anybody that works in broadcasting knows that you'll be swatting up and doing your homework and hitting your mark and getting it right, especially in live programming. Where do you think you get that ability, that warm, easy ability, just to make it seem as if a camera happens to be pointing at you and you just happen to be there at the same time as it is?

Gloria Hunniford17:59

I think people in Ireland in general just like talking, to be honest. And I'm very interested in people. It doesn't matter who they are. That sounds trite, but I genuinely am interested in people. And you're right. I do my homework religiously because the only time that I would feel nervous is if I felt I didn't have enough information to do the interview or present whatever item it happens to be. And if there is any merit, it's very kind of you to say it, but if there's any merit in it at all, I think it's almost inherent of all those times sitting round the fire in Ireland, just people chatting.

Presenter18:31

We've touched on the fact that you had this radio programme on Radio Two. You were the first woman, as I mentioned in the introduction, to have a daily show on Radio Two. That was a big breakthrough. Did it feel like it at the time?

Gloria Hunniford18:41

Oh, of course and again, not anything in my plan at all. And I came over to London with a three month contract. I wasn't sure whether it would work out, but I wanted the opportunity. And it was scary. I mean, the first day I started at Radio Two, somebody had to show me how to get from Seven Oaks in Kent.

Gloria Hunniford18:58

To Broadcasting House. I didn't know because it all sounds terribly innocent and naïve, and I'm afraid to tell you it was. I just sort of went with the flow. Yes, it was thrilling. Yes, it was exciting. Yes, it was challenging. And I wanted to do it desperately when the job was offered. And I'd always loved the station, so I was very pleased to do it. And I had a wonderful time.

Presenter19:19

You had 13 long and happy successes. I did. It was fantastic. What's your next record?

Gloria Hunniford19:20

I did.

Gloria Hunniford19:24

The next record is um Neil Diamond. Um

Gloria Hunniford19:28

I don't know about you, but there are relatively few artists at the end of the day whom I want to listen to all the way through the album and never get tired of. And Neil Diamond is one person I never get tired of listening to his voice. And I just think he's a wonderful singer. I love his voice. I love just the gravitas of his voice at times. And this particular song, I think, is just a great love song.

Speaker 419:54

And look how far we've come, so far from where we used to be.

Speaker 420:02

But not so far that we've forgotten.

Speaker 420:06

How it was before

Speaker 420:10

September morning

Speaker 420:14

Do you remember how we danced that night away?

Presenter20:20

Neil Diamond and September Mourn. Let's talk about Karen following you into the profession. I mean, I remember quite vividly the first time that I saw Karen Keating on television. She was I mean, a breath of fresh air sounds far too cliched and trite. She she was something different altogether. She was very vital, very fresh, and very clearly her own person.

Gloria Hunniford20:39

Always her own person, even from a very young child, always her own person. She never really wanted to conform, she wanted to be different.

Presenter20:47

I mean, she looked kind of crackers on screen in terms of what she was wearing.

Gloria Hunniford20:50

Well, you should have tried being her mother at times with the clothes, because at times I'd say, Karen, what is it? Uh it would be bits of dishcloth tied round her wrists and round her knees or bows sort of above her knees tied. But but she was always um so vibrant. She she had a um a kind of a wild Irish spirit really about her and people loved that about her.

Presenter21:12

You were very, very close. You were indeed you were at the birth of both of her children.

Gloria Hunniford21:13

Yeah.

Gloria Hunniford21:16

I was very privileged, very privileged, and so I saw both boys being born, Charlie and Gabriel I'm talking about, and I was very, very lucky that and very fortunate that Karen um gave me that privilege of being there. When did you first find out about her cancer?

Gloria Hunniford21:33

Gabriel was her youngest son was literally a matter of months old and she rang me up one day and said that she discovered a small lump and her doctor and myself and indeed anybody in the medical profession they all said oh it's a milk lump it'll disappear it'll be fine so we were all so convinced that it was going to be fine but very very sadly it wasn't.

Presenter21:57

And how did she uh I know that it was seven long years and very much against the odds. She came through a lot of treatment that people that all of her specialists thought she would not necessarily successfully come through. How did she fight the cancer in the initial stages?

Gloria Hunniford22:12

Well, first of all, she didn't want anybody to know. Why was that? She didn't want to be seen as a victim. She didn't want that sort of pious look from people. How are you? How are you getting on? She didn't want that.

Gloria Hunniford22:24

When she went to Australia about four years into her cancer, I couldn't understand that at all. Now that I look back on it, I can see what Australia gave her in terms of that privacy, because she was away from Pap Brassy Eyes.

Gloria Hunniford22:39

Um it did give her that anonymity. Um but you're right, she fought a very hard seven-year battle. You've got to remember, of course, that it's not

Gloria Hunniford22:49

You're not fighting all of the time. There were very happy times in between the seven years. And so you get back to normality. And Karen was always so positive. I mean, she really became the teacher in this case because we learned so much by watching her. And she gave us the strength in a way to be positive for her. Because it's very easy for a parent to crumble at the first diagnosis because you can't believe it. I still don't believe it in a way. But she did fight on with her battle with this great tenacity and great courage. And she was going to beat it. And then, of course, along would come the next bit.

Presenter23:26

And so on the thirteenth of april two thousand four she came home to you.

Gloria Hunniford23:30

She did, despite the awful feeling in the pit of my stomach all the time that she might not beat it. Nevertheless, she always convinced me that even if she didn't beat it, that she would manage it. She did, in the last year of her life in Australia, discover a clinic in Switzerland which did a lot of cleansing of the body, you know, cleansing the blood and looking at energy levels. And she got great benefit from that on the first trip. And then she came back again for the second trip. And the plan then was to stay in Switzerland and then come home at least for the summer. And that was what we were so looking forward to. And I had been with her in Switzerland for a month before she came home. She got more and more ill while she was in Switzerland, having the complimentary treatment, had to have some radiotherapy. And then we realised that she really did need to come home. So we all went home to get everything ready for Karen to return to Seven Oaks and Russ drove her home because she didn't want to face airports and she wasn't really well enough.

Gloria Hunniford24:37

We he put her in the car, literally at the hotel door, and drove her home.

Gloria Hunniford24:41

And I couldn't believe that she had actually made it to my kitchen in Seven Oaks.

Gloria Hunniford24:46

But she arrived home at one o'clock in the morning, and it was just so incredible to see Karen sitting at the kitchen table and

Gloria Hunniford24:56

You know, having a cup of tea in her favourite spotty cup.

Gloria Hunniford25:00

and eventually we got her to bed and

Gloria Hunniford25:03

Nobody slept that night anyway. Um, you know, I paced the floor thinking, you know, she's back in this house, she's back in this country. It was something I'd been waiting for for, you know, three years, all that time that she'd been in Australia.

Gloria Hunniford25:16

Um but we lost her at about a quarter past five that afternoon. But how fantastic that she made it home and we were all there, as it turned out, we were all there. So she literally was only in the house for um hours. But it is as if her body just held out and she managed to make it home to Seven Eggs.

Presenter25:40

The piece of music that you've chosen next is uh because of its memories for you of of Karen and also memories of of times in Australia with with Karen.

Gloria Hunniford25:48

It's very special, this record, by Cliff Richard. And Cliff was one of few people whom Karen allowed in in Australia when he went on concert there. I mean, I've known Cliff for thirty-six years, and Karen subsequently, of course, had got to know him very well. And when he came to stay, came now to stay for four days at one point in Australia. And one night round the dinner table, she asked Cliff to sing the song, and he sang at Acapella, just at the table.

Gloria Hunniford26:16

Yeah.

Speaker 426:16

Southward burning lie the jewels that I o' place on the warm winds

Speaker 426:25

That embrace me

Speaker 426:30

Just as surely kissed your face

Speaker 426:35

Yeah, these missing that

Speaker 426:42

Bill Longer.

Presenter26:46

Cliff Richard and Miss Unites. You said, of course, that Karen wanted to make her journey with cancer a private journey and that she didn't want people to know about it. She didn't want it written in the press.

Presenter26:57

You decided then to write the book. What made that decision for you?

Gloria Hunniford27:00

Many reasons really. First of all, and I think this is probably the the biggest drive really is the fact that I'm the only person left alive who knows Karen's story.

Gloria Hunniford27:10

from beginning to end, and I wanted her boys to know.

Gloria Hunniford27:14

how hard she fought. And this in a way is my legacy to them. And so I feel fortunate in that been able to put that between covers so that they will have it at whatever point they need it.

Gloria Hunniford27:27

But what has happened, you can never guarantee when you're writing a book or putting a book together what way it's going to take off.

Gloria Hunniford27:33

is the fact that it seems to have a life of its own now, nothing to do with me whatsoever. And I don't wish this to sound way out, but it's almost like Karen is doing her work from a different place.

Gloria Hunniford27:44

And people write and say, I've reassessed my life, my priorities have changed. Nurses write and say Karen's own description of what it's like as chemotherapy is about to be shot into your veins, or what it's like to be under a radiotherapy machine.

Gloria Hunniford27:59

has been helpful to them in their job.

Gloria Hunniford28:02

So in that sense it's like the book just has a life of its own and will continue in that vein. And I feel that Karen would be very proud of it. I feel as if I had just finished off in a way what she started.

Presenter28:12

You spoke there about those two beautiful children. How are those two beautiful children?

Gloria Hunniford28:16

Charlie and Gabriel, and as a grandmother you would expect me to say this, but they really are two of the most beautiful boys. Charlie is 12, going on 13, and Gabriel is 10 and very close to being 11, which is very important. And I'm at my best when I see them. I see so much of Karen's spirit in them. They look so much like Karen. There are times I just glance at them and I think that is Karen. And that's the way Karen's spirit will be carried forward through the boys.

Presenter28:45

What happens at the most difficult times, I mean times like Christmastime?

Gloria Hunniford28:48

Well it's very interesting. We we we just played Cliff's record of Miss Unites and uh the first Christmas after Karen died he said to me one day, How are you getting on? You know, how are you going to cope with Christmas? and I went, I just have no clue And he he said to me it was very simple, really he said to me, Do Karen like Christmas?

Gloria Hunniford29:04

I went, she loved it, because in our family, going back to my parents, it's always been the highlight of the year. And he said, well, look.

Gloria Hunniford29:10

Why don't you go bigger and better than ever for Karen and for her boys?

Gloria Hunniford29:15

Every time I have difficulty now with anniversaries, I think, I'm gonna go bigger and better than ever for Karen because from a parental point of view

Gloria Hunniford29:23

It doesn't get better at all. You just you have to learn to live around it and through it. In my case, I have two fantastic sons, Michael and Paul. I have a great husband, Stephen, all of whom have been supportive, and I don't think I would have got by without them. So that's how I cope.

Presenter29:39

Gloria, tell us what your last record is.

Gloria Hunniford29:42

Well, my last record I feel I would love to have on a desert island. I've always loved the title of it as called The Beyondness of Things, which is an unusual title. I find it very peaceful.

Gloria Hunniford29:54

I find if I'm fraught and dashing from A to B, which I am usually, I can put this record on at home and it absolutely calms me down.

Gloria Hunniford30:02

And so I thought if I was lying on that desert island looking into infinity that this record would be perfect.

Presenter30:38

John Barry and the Beyondness of Things. So of course you have the Bible, Gloria, you have the complete works of Shakespeare, you are allowed one more book, what will it be?

Gloria Hunniford30:47

This is a really strange one that I've chosen in a way because when I went to Canada when I was seventeen, eighteen.

Gloria Hunniford30:52

Um everybody was reading or trying to read War and Peace. And I have tried to read it endlessly during my life and I always get so far and I can never get through it because it's such a large

Gloria Hunniford31:04

book. If I'm going to have endless time on this island, maybe eventually I'll get to read it. It might be a certain achievement. So I think in the end I'm going to opt for war and peace. It's the perfect opportunity. And what would your luxury be?

Gloria Hunniford31:17

Well, my luxury is going to be my photographic album. Family is everything to me, has always been and will always be. That would be perfect for me, and I think I could

Gloria Hunniford31:29

You know, read and re-read my luxury item more probably than I'll read War and Peace, but I would never get fed up looking at that, and that would be a great luxury for me to have it.

Presenter31:38

Given that it was almost impossible for you to narrow it down to eight discs, I'm now going to give you an utterly impossible task. If the waves were to crash to the shore and you had to run to save one of those disks, which one would you save?

Gloria Hunniford31:51

Oh, that is so hard. Probably misty nights, for the obvious reasons that I've explained.

Presenter31:57

Gloria Hunaford, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island this year.

Gloria Hunniford32:00

I've really enjoyed talking to you, Castell. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you.

Presenter32:18

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.