Simon Cowell

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and six, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Castaway this week is a television star. Fabulously rich and astonishingly successful, he's the self created hitman of one of the world's biggest franchises, Pop Idol. He squashes the hopes and raises the aspirations of one of these with a carefully blended mixture of arrogance, disdain, and charm.

Presenter0:47

Born in the home counties, he was a wash out at school, but immediately did well in the record business that he joined at the age of nineteen.

Presenter0:54

Ten years later he was driving a Porsche and living it up in Fulham. Then he lost all that before starting the long climb back to his present success. He produced a string of money spinning recording artists, and it was his experience in working with new talent that gave him the idea for Pop Idol, a programme that's led to American Pop Idol and then today to the X Factor. I have, he says, with the self-confidence that is his trademark, an instinct for what the public want, and there are very few people who have it in my area. He is Simon Cowell.

Simon Cowell1:26

The

Simon Cowell1:27

Sounds a bit big-headed, isn't it?

Presenter1:28

So

Presenter1:32

How how do you know though when you hear it? I mean do you know immediately is it like tasting food off a plate and knowing immediately whether this is well cooked?

Simon Cowell1:40

I was forty years old when I had that Eureka moment. I'm forty-six now. I was making a record one day and I I was driving the producer crazy because I couldn't tell him what was right, what was wrong. And eventually it suddenly occurred to me, I have to like it. And I have quite broad popular tastes. So I took the the view that if I liked it, I think other people will like it.

Presenter2:02

So you're the embodiment of popular taste, modern popular taste.

Simon Cowell2:05

Uh well, I think I'm a typical example. I loathe cultural snobbiness.

Speaker 32:09

Uh

Simon Cowell2:13

My opinion is if you like a certain kind of art, television show, music, whatever it is, you're entitled to do it as you're entitled to have your own taste in food. I mean, if I went into a French restaurant, I would literally want to order baked beans on toast.

Presenter2:27

Drink.

Simon Cowell2:28

And I know I get thrown out, but I don't understand why I shouldn't.

Presenter2:31

But but there's a bit of marketing attached to it as well, isn't it? I mean, it's not just the sound itself, is it? It's you know whether it can sell'cause you also know whether it's got marketability. And I'm thinking, for example, of Gareth Gates, who who came second in the end in the first series of Pop Idol and

Speaker 22:43

Garrison

Presenter2:47

When he came on, as we know, he he had a stammer. I think the first day you asked him his name and he took

Speaker 32:50

Uh

Simon Cowell2:50

But the future is

Presenter2:53

Five minutes to answer?

Simon Cowell2:54

So yeah about five minutes, yeah.

Presenter2:55

And

Presenter2:57

Didn't you spot in that moment that, you know, this was this was a USP, a unique selling point?

Simon Cowell3:02

Uh I did, but I reacted as a human being rather than someone sort of slightly distant in the music business, which is if if it touched me as a person, his story, I was absolutely sure a lot of people would feel the same way. So you can only market something which I believe is real. And actually I'm I'm understanding more and more now that the only powerful marketing tool in the world is word of mouth.

Speaker 23:25

Hmm.

Simon Cowell3:26

And you see this on all these types of shows, whether it's my shows or I'm a celebrity. It's it doesn't guarantee you're going to be a star. It means you could be popular for a period of time and then it's all over.

Presenter3:38

It's quick, isn't it? It's one one therefore can't help being just a bit cynical about it, because it's so fleeting, isn't it?

Simon Cowell3:39

Can be

Simon Cowell3:45

Well, we get a lot of criticism for are you just using people for one year, two years? It's never our intention. I mean, Will Young is an example and Keddie Clarkson, The Girl Who Won American Idol.

Simon Cowell3:55

Particularly Kelly, their international stars now.

Presenter3:57

But you wanted Gareth to win, not Will, didn't you?

Simon Cowell3:59

I did, yeah. Yeah. And again I was reacting not as a record label, but as a member of the public.

Presenter4:05

All right. Well, how cynical is your list of eight desert islands? I mean, do you really like these records or have they been chosen to enhance your image size?

Simon Cowell4:12

Oh god, no. I mean, yes, yes, you're going to find out halfway through. These are the eight songs I would like in my car.

Presenter4:19

Okay, what's the first?

Simon Cowell4:20

The first is well this has to be the best song ever made, ever produced, ever sang, and it's Bobby Darren McThein.

Speaker 34:30

Jeehya Bandu Emila.

Speaker 34:32

He disappeared babe after drawing out all his modern catch And now Maggie hend just like a shirt

Speaker 34:48

Could it be a voice?

Speaker 34:51

Something rash.

Speaker 34:54

Yes, sugar dream.

Presenter4:59

Uh

Simon Cowell4:59

Top that.

Presenter5:01

Bobby Darin and Mac the Nice.

Simon Cowell5:02

That's the way to do it.

Presenter5:03

1959. It's a great song, great performance. I'm always amazed that the people who appear on your shows try and sing those classics because doesn't your heart sink? I mean it is like kind of karaoke with production, isn't it?

Simon Cowell5:03

Uh

Simon Cowell5:11

Yeah.

Simon Cowell5:13

Every time. I mean, I try and remain optimistic, but I'm sitting there feeling completely miserable that you're murdering one of my favourite songs of all time.

Presenter5:23

That would get you wrong. I mean, Matt Stevens, the rugby player, did it in celebrity expert.

Simon Cowell5:26

Yeah.

Simon Cowell5:27

you know, and I g'd him up a little bit. But this is a song about personality, and Bobby Darren had personality and he was very stylish. Um and it's it's that's as important as the voice. You've got to have charisma to sing a song like that, and uh no one will ever top that version.

Presenter5:41

Yeah.

Presenter5:46

It's been said about um quite a few of the people I think who audition for these shows because of course

Presenter5:51

The vast majority don't hit the air, that you couldn't invent them. I mean, you do see some extraordinary people backstage. I mean, tell me, tell me about some of the worst.

Simon Cowell6:01

Uh I I am always surprised to. And it's like the outpatience of uh of an insane asylum sometimes. I mean you just think, is this a joke? They are so bad. And we asked the question before, do you think you can win this competition? Yes, who do you aspire to be? You know, Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, fine. And they sing this song. And I know that if I sang to you now, I'd be out of tune. And these people, I mean, after we tell them they're terrible, I mean, they're outraged.

Presenter6:33

Where where does the self-delusion come from then? What do you think it is?

Simon Cowell6:36

Parents, friends, but overall, right now, I think it's one of the reasons why this show is successful, is that we live in a fame epidemic. Whereas when I was asked at school what I wanted to be at the age of 10, I would have probably said fireman, you know, racing driver, whatever. You ask the same group of people now, and I guarantee 70-80% will just say famous. They just want to be celebrities. I mean, to be honest with you, without that, the show wouldn't be what it is. I mean, it's part of the fun where you see all these people singing absolutely terribly. It is part of the fun. So I'm not sure whether we are encouraging this epidemic or simply showcasing it. I don't know. But I love it.

Presenter6:59

It just

Presenter7:19

But it's a it's a natural spin-off as well.

Simon Cowell7:21

Bring on the loonies, I do like them.

Presenter7:24

You don't often let the loonies through, though, do you?

Simon Cowell7:26

Uh occasionally I will.

Presenter7:29

Uh

Presenter7:30

It must get quite dangerous in there, though, sometimes. They can get nasty, can't they, when after particularly after your kind of put downs, and we'll we'll come to your rudery later. But, you know, have you I mean, have you ever been attacked physically?

Simon Cowell7:42

Uh we have a lot of security people and they're very visible in the room.

Presenter7:46

A bit of a bodyguard, yeah.

Simon Cowell7:46

And they have a

Simon Cowell7:48

Oh, I mean in America we probably have ten security guards in the room.

Presenter7:51

Somebody once rammed the building with his car, didn't he?

Simon Cowell7:55

Yeah, it got very upset and he drove his car through Wembley Conference Centre.

Presenter8:00

But then at the other extreme, I hear, now, is this true that you're held, you're.

Presenter8:05

Ability to judge things is held in such high esteem that an American couple asks you to judge them in bed, is that right?

Simon Cowell8:10

Yeah, and I was offered money for that.

Presenter8:11

How much?

Simon Cowell8:12

I think it was $150,000. What did you do? Well, stupidly, I turned it down. I mean, if you're listening, I'll take up the offer.

Presenter8:20

Well there is

Simon Cowell8:23

Well, there is a point, but I mean what? For an hour, 150 grand, I'll do it. Why not?

Presenter8:28

Record number two.

Simon Cowell8:30

Number two, this I think is the sexiest song ever made. And it's Herb Albert, This Guy's in Love With You.

Speaker 38:39

You see the sky?

Speaker 38:43

This guy's in love with you.

Speaker 38:50

Yes, I'm in love.

Speaker 38:55

Who looks at you the way I do?

Speaker 39:01

When you smile

Presenter9:04

A game.

Speaker 39:04

And uh

Presenter9:06

Her Palpit, and this guy's in love with you. Okay, let's go back to the origins of Simon Carl, the man the audience loves to hate. Was he was he always a pain in the proverbial as a small boy?

Simon Cowell9:18

Looking back, probably yes. In Lippy.

Simon Cowell9:22

Always doing things I shouldn't, whatever I was told not to do, I would do, which is why I ended up smoking.

Simon Cowell9:29

Um

Presenter9:30

Set the house on fire when you were four.

Simon Cowell9:31

set the house on fire when I was four.

Presenter9:34

Held up the school bus with a P-shooter.

Simon Cowell9:36

Yeah, I I hijacked a bus once with a P-gun.

Presenter9:36

I hijacked.

Simon Cowell9:39

I got arrested. I was actually a horrible child. I wouldn't want me if I was going to have children.

Presenter9:46

Were you expelled from school?

Simon Cowell9:48

Well, I was encouraged to leave two schools and I was suspended from another school.

Presenter9:54

Hmm.

Simon Cowell9:54

I didn't like school.

Presenter9:55

For why were you so disruptive, do you know? I mean

Simon Cowell9:57

bored, you know, I mean just bored and always I was always, you know, interested in in the things we shouldn't do. I mean, I was just that kind of child. You know, I wasn't interested in education. I had no respect for discipline.

Presenter9:58

Yeah.

Presenter10:06

I'm gonna

Presenter10:12

Were you spoiled, boy, then?

Simon Cowell10:13

I was spoiled by my dad, but my mum was always the disciplinarian of the family.

Presenter10:19

But home was quite swish, wasn't it?

Simon Cowell10:21

Home was great.

Presenter10:22

Where was it? What was it?

Simon Cowell10:23

I lived in a house called Abbots Mead, which was in Elstree, which at the time was sort of the Beverly Hills of England. And my next-door neighbour, my parents' next-door neighbours, ran MGM Studios, a guy called Jerry Blattner. So when all the film stars came over to film, Elizabeth Taylor, Robert Mitcham, Richard Burton, all those kind of people, they would stay at my next-door neighbour's house a week.

Presenter10:44

So you met them?

Simon Cowell10:45

I met everyone, yeah.

Presenter10:46

What is a very small boy?

Simon Cowell10:47

Yeah.

Simon Cowell10:48

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter10:48

Yeah.

Simon Cowell10:51

Probably didn't like me very much, but um I think I sat on Bette Davis's knee once and spoke to her, and they used to have these very swish parties.

Simon Cowell11:01

at my parents' house and the next door neighbours house. So I kind of grew up thinking everybody had film stars as next door neighbors.

Presenter11:08

And knowing how to be cool in starry company, I suppose, even at that early age.

Simon Cowell11:13

Yeah. Forget the swinging sixties. I liked the stylish sixties, which is a lot of my my song choice today from that era. I thought it was a very glamorous time. I mean, big parties were the norm. Everybody looked incredible. And that's probably, you know, as a five or six year old boy looking at these parties thinking, I'd like to be in that company, in that business when I'm older. It obviously had an effect on me.

Simon Cowell11:38

Next record. My mum used to play this record and I used to hate it. Her eyes still well up every time she plays it now. And about five years ago I realized it's one of the most beautiful songs of all time. And if she's listening now, my mum will be crying. Guaranteed.

Simon Cowell11:55

It's Charzasnaborshi.

Speaker 311:57

Whose eyes can be so private and so proud No one's allowed to see them when they cry

Speaker 312:06

She may be the love that cannot hope to last May come to me from shadows of the past That I remember till the day I die She may be the reason I survive

Presenter12:26

That is a beautiful song, isn't it?

Simon Cowell12:28

That is a beautiful song. It's wonderful, isn't it? Yeah, I love that song.

Presenter12:31

You can dry your eyes now.

Simon Cowell12:32

I'm okay, I'm okay now. My mum won't be.

Presenter12:35

Did you tell anybody when you were a little boy, did you that you wanted to go into the entertainment business, or was it a sort of secret ambition that you kept yourself?

Simon Cowell12:42

Um funny enough I never planned anything. I just assumed that I'd leave school quite quickly and and go into a job which I I would enjoy. Sunday evenings for me were hell when I was at school because there was a religious programme that used to play at seven o'clock and it would signify to me that the weekend is over and the hell of school's about to be counted down. And I used to feel sick. And I always promised myself that if ever I was in a position, no matter how well I was doing, if I had that Sunday evening seven o'clock feeling about work the following day, I'd stop whatever I was doing because it used to make me really unhappy.

Presenter13:19

But your parents must have been at their wit's end with you, Willem.'Cause you were disruptive at school, as you say. They would constantly be getting messages about you, or asked to take you away, or whatever.

Presenter13:28

I mean, what can they have thought was going to become of you? I mean, your younger brother was growing up faster than you, m or becoming mature faster than you, wasn't he?

Simon Cowell13:35

Yes, he was a bit actually, yeah. I mean the the from memory through the kind of school reports never were he's a nasty piece of work. It was more frustration that I didn't bother to try and learn anything. And I think my dad took the view, well, that's fine, you know, if if and I always said to him, I'm always willing to work hard. And they did teach us from a very, very early age that you have to earn your own money. You know, so we used to mow lawns, wash cars, whatever we we could do to make money for ourselves. And I was doing that from the age of seven, eight years old.

Presenter14:11

But when you finally left school with what, two O levels?

Simon Cowell14:13

Two O levels, yeah.

Presenter14:14

Yeah, I mean they must have pushed you towards something.

Simon Cowell14:16

Well, my dad and my mum organised a bizarre series of interviews for me. Um anything from management at Tesco's to becoming a building contractor or something and even worse, uh an interview at the civil service.

Simon Cowell14:35

to be a law clerk or something. I mean every one of the interviews was a disaster. Uh and then I got a job working as a runner at LSD Studios. So that was my first proper job. I'm seventeen, earning about fifteen pounds a week. That lasted for three months. And my mum filled in an application form for me to be a postboy at EMI Music Publishing. And they wrote back and I had the interview and got the job.

Presenter15:01

What's really interesting though, that in the end, despite we're getting the impression that this is a boy who doesn't quite know what he's doing, can't pull himself together and isn't taking responsibility and everything, but then suddenly you do, don't you? Suddenly you will kind of apply a kind of rigour to this job because you got your hands on, I think, the international song list at EMI, and suddenly you're going through it with a fine tooth comb, aren't you?

Simon Cowell15:26

Uh f I think for a year I locked myself into an office and went through as many songs E and I published as possible and then went out and got uh loads of recording artists to to cover those songs, which made the company a lot of money. Um but I I found I had a natural application and I I was a hard worker. I've always been a hard worker.

Presenter15:50

Yeah, but I mean the signs of it weren't there before, that's my point, that suddenly you're hearing what your father had been telling you, which is, you know, if you want to make success, you've got to start at the bottom, clamber all the way up and put in the hours.

Simon Cowell16:02

That I understood. I understood starting at the bottom, which my my dad did teach me and work hard. What I didn't understand at school were the benefits of learning chemistry or physics. I didn't get that. But old fashioned, hard work and learning, I got that.

Presenter16:20

Got number four.

Simon Cowell16:21

Record number four. Well, this has to be the best vocal of all time.

Presenter16:27

They're all superlatives. Oh, but they are.

Simon Cowell16:28

But this is, this is the if anyone's if anyone's listening as to how to do this or wants to know how to do this, listen to the Righteous Brothers singing Unshamed Melody.

Speaker 316:42

Halloween

Speaker 316:47

By the door.

Speaker 316:50

I'm hungry, hunger for your love.

Presenter17:06

The Righteous Brothers and Unchained Melody, that was nineteen sixty five. C the song, of course, that your man Gareth Gates sang on the first series of Pop Idol, and which your boys Robinson and Jerome sang on the television programme Soldier, Soldier, which is what made you spot them. You p apparently stalked them until they signed up with you, didn't you?

Simon Cowell17:25

Yeah. To cut a long story short, I did stalk them for about five months, to the point where I almost had a restraining order put on me by Robson, because I was driving him nuts, his family and everybody else. And eventually Robson called me, because I hadn't spoken to him. I persuaded him to meet me.

Simon Cowell17:42

I said to the two of them, look, I'll give you fifty thousand pounds each just to go into a studio and if we if you don't like it, keep the fifty grand each. Fine. And luckily they liked it. And we sold millions records off the back of that. And sometimes, you know, when you've got a gut instinct, don't get put off when someone says no. And I just couldn't get this feeling out out out of me that this was going to work.

Presenter17:56

And

Presenter18:06

That was about, what, ten years ago? You'd done something similar ten years before that with Sunita, hadn't you? You'd spotted her in a nightclub and you just again

Simon Cowell18:08

Yeah.

Presenter18:15

She hit your gut. You knew you could do something with her, didn't you?

Simon Cowell18:18

Well, to be fair to Sunita, she knew as much as me. You know, she had a feeling that she could be a successful recording artist. Luckily, I did as well.

Presenter18:26

But it took you a long time. Did it took eighteen months?

Simon Cowell18:29

Eighty months, two years.

Presenter18:30

Was this her hit so matcher?

Simon Cowell18:31

Yeah, that was her first hit, yeah. I I literally did everything. I was the promotions man, I was the distributor, I I did everything. I taught myself the whole it was the first record I ever put out, and I had to release it three times and eventually we sold, I think, a million copies of that.

Presenter18:46

So that was a steep learning curve and you got there and you became very successful. But then, as I said in the introduction, you went bust a bit later. You got the Porsche, you got the house in Fulham, and then it all went bust and you had to go home to mum.

Simon Cowell18:58

Oh yeah, I was the good time Charlie of the nineteen eighties. You know, I had, as you said, the Porsche uh the the house in Chelsea, believing my own hype, and it all came crashing down, uh where the company which had bought my company went bust, my company therefore went bust with it, I owed the bank about half a million pounds, and I had four pounds in my pocket.

Presenter19:23

Did you feel humiliated?

Simon Cowell19:24

No, I felt, funny enough, uh I felt I was due this. I was absolutely behaving appallingly, believing all my own hype. Everything was borrowed, and when I had to give everything back, it was a huge weight off my shoulders.

Presenter19:43

Make one number five.

Simon Cowell19:44

Record number five. Now this is a very strange record. The first time I heard it was on a cult movie called Ferris Bueller's Day Off starring Matthew Broderick. And there's a scene in the movie when he's miming this song on a carnival float. I mean it sounds a bit odd and the song's a bit odd. But from that point on I've always loved this song. Wayne Newton Dankershane.

Speaker 320:05

Dark ashane, darling, dark ashan.

Speaker 320:12

Thank you for walks down Lovers Lane

Speaker 320:18

I can see hearts carved on a tree Letters intertwine For all time Yours and mine That was fine Darker shame

Simon Cowell20:34

What a song.

Presenter20:34

Wayne Newton and Danker Shane, he says.

Simon Cowell20:37

Danka Shed always puts me in a good mood, that song.

Presenter20:39

So you were named Record Executive of the Year several times over, and you signed up Westlife, the Irish Boy Band, and in nineteen ninety nine they got the first of what was to be seven number one hit singles in a row, I think.

Speaker 220:51

Yeah.

Simon Cowell20:51

Uh

Presenter20:52

And you phoned home to tell the family the good news. Um it was a terrible moment, wasn't it?

Simon Cowell20:57

Uh we'd been expecting the first single to go to number one and I was in Boston and I got a I got the call we were going to be number one, so your first reaction is to phone your parents'cause they were always interested. Um and I got the news uh that my dad had died. And uh there was just this terrible irony that um you know I had something very successful happening in my life and the the person I wanted to share it with, you know, had died. It was God, it was a it was a terrible day. Terrible day. He was in his eighties, you know, yeah, and it was very unexpected. And uh boy, was that a reality check.

Presenter21:26

Oh because he wasn't real.

Presenter21:29

Yeah.

Presenter21:36

Hm.'Cause you wanted him to see you.

Simon Cowell21:38

Yeah.

Presenter21:39

Successful.

Simon Cowell21:39

Successful.

Speaker 321:40

Yeah.

Simon Cowell21:40

Yeah.

Presenter21:40

What do you think he'd make of you today?

Simon Cowell21:43

I don't know why this

Presenter21:44

Thank you for being Mr. Nasty.

Simon Cowell21:46

I've no idea what he would think actually. I mean, l my dad had a sense of humor, and uh I do try through all of this, Sue.

Simon Cowell21:55

retain a sense of humor because it is a crazy life. It's not a proper life. It's not a proper job. We're not even making proper T V shows. I mean, they're crazy shows. So I take everything with a pinch of salt, and I think my dad would have taken it with a large dose of salt.

Simon Cowell22:13

Record number six. Actually this is the only record which isn't thirty years old.

Simon Cowell22:18

I thought the very first time I heard this song, this is one of the most perfect pop songs of all time.

Simon Cowell22:23

And it's Daniel Bedingfield if you're not the one.

Presenter22:25

Hang on, we've had one of the most perfect pops.

Simon Cowell22:27

Perfect puzzles.

Simon Cowell22:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 322:32

If you're not the one, then why does my soul feel glad today If you're not the one, then why does my hand fit yours?

Speaker 322:45

This way

Speaker 322:48

If you are not mine, then why does your heart return my call?

Speaker 322:56

You are not mine, but I have the strength to stand.

Presenter23:01

Daniel Beddingfield, and if you're not the one. How big a decision was it then for you to go on on the front of these television programs when you finally conceived of Pop Idol and you thought I better be a judge? Was it a big decision? Did you realise what would all this territory come with it?

Simon Cowell23:18

Yeah, I did. I thought the show would be a hit and of course I was aware that if if if the show's a hit, people will be interested in writing about you. I knew obviously some of the my ex-girlfriends would be tempted to go to the papers. Uh I took the view that the one person everyone is going to approach with their stories was Max Clifford. And I genuinely didn't want to be in the papers, I wanted to be out the papers. So I hired Max.

Presenter23:32

See

Presenter23:43

So you turn the poach over to the gamekeeper, or vice versa, whatever it is. It's it's quite a shark pool you describe, Simon, that you work in out there, isn't it? You know, not just people being ruthless, but you with Max Clifford guarding the gate, you looking over your shoulder in case somebody's trying to set you up. I mean

Presenter24:01

It's pretty relentlessly nasty, isn't it?

Simon Cowell24:04

Uh funny enough, everyone blames the media. You know, I hear a lot of s stars bleating out about media intrusion. The shark pool is not the media. The shark pool are some of the people who work within this business, who are absolutely vile, vile people.

Presenter24:20

In what way?

Simon Cowell24:21

Ways

Simon Cowell24:22

Untrustworthy liars

Simon Cowell24:24

Just disgusting people.

Presenter24:27

But then the nature of the business is pretty odious if you want to get kind of

Presenter24:32

Grand about it, isn't it? Because it is an exercise in public humiliation, isn't it? It's ritual humiliation, that's what you deal in, isn't it?

Simon Cowell24:41

I suppose you could call it that, or you could just say it's a reality show which shows the good and the bad. Um no one's forcing them to audition. I mean, if someone slips on a banana skin, I'd like it on film, you know, I'd love to see it. I've always been that way.

Presenter24:55

But this is different. This is very personal, isn't it? I mean, people are.

Presenter25:00

Cannon fodder. I agree with you that they offer themselves up as cannon fodder, but that is what they become, and that is what you trade in. Now, I agree, you're not forcing them to do it.

Simon Cowell25:11

Uh

Presenter25:11

But I just wonder what your observations are on it, because you live so closely with it, and you make your millions out of it.

Simon Cowell25:18

Well, it depends where you sit again. Well, I sit there and I go, Well, I we are accused of showing bad singers. Um but then I also think that for anyone who enters a competition like this, they want to go from naught to sixty in one second. They haven't had to go up and down the motorway in a terrible old van. They're not earning fifty pounds a week, not sure if they're not going to get paid or not. What they want to do is skip the process. So they they go, I don't want to do all that, don't want to work, just left school, want to be famous overnight, make me rich. And I go, fine, then there is a process you're going to have to go through, which is you're going to be judged.

Presenter25:20

What about where you see?

Speaker 325:56

Yeah.

Presenter25:56

Mm-hmm.

Simon Cowell25:57

And if you're terrible, we're going to tell you you're terrible. So that's the trade-off.

Presenter26:01

You do like doing that though, don't you? You do like telling I mean, there is a kind of relish attached to your it's it's the pause, isn't it? It's the it's the yeah. It's the let me tell you, you were extraordinary pause two, three, and the little kind of wannabe s beams with pleasure and you say extraordinarily awful.

Simon Cowell26:08

It's the

Speaker 226:09

Uh

Simon Cowell26:19

Yeah, I've seen that. Again, I've blame the editors on that one, so

Presenter26:22

Oh, come on, you did dear darlings.

Presenter26:26

You blame the editor.

Simon Cowell26:27

I'm kidding. The other thing is, is that when I was making my way in the music business, I made some bad mistakes along the way. You don't stick your bottom lip out and go, I can't be criticised, I'm always right. You learn by your mistakes. So in a strange way, I think I'm being kinder. Not that I'm a saint, Sue.

Presenter26:46

Uh no, no, I well, patently. Um

Presenter26:49

I just think I just wonder whether all those little girls you've made weep

Presenter26:55

Whether it kind of they ever interfere with your sleep.

Simon Cowell26:58

No.

Simon Cowell27:00

Yeah.

Simon Cowell27:01

No, because we're not drowning kittens. We're just telling terrible singers they're terrible.

Presenter27:06

Make a number seven.

Simon Cowell27:08

All puppies. Um, Frank Sinatra, I think my favorite artist of all time.

Simon Cowell27:15

Um

Simon Cowell27:17

So it's very difficult choosing one song, uh but this is one of his better known ones. I love the arrangement on this song and I love the vocal and it's Frankson after Summerwind.

Speaker 327:27

I lost you.

Speaker 327:31

I lost you to the summer wind

Speaker 327:37

The autumn wind

Simon Cowell27:37

Autumn.

Speaker 327:40

And the winner wins.

Speaker 327:42

They have come and gone.

Speaker 327:48

Still a day

Speaker 327:51

Those lonely days, they go

Presenter27:54

Ah

Speaker 327:55

Ah

Presenter27:57

Frank Sinatra and Summer Wind. I'm I'm still still trying to find out what makes Simon Cowell cry or what moves him or what

Presenter28:07

Where's the emotion in the boy?

Simon Cowell28:07

Where's the

Simon Cowell28:09

I do get emotional. I don't like cruelty to animals or children. So.

Presenter28:16

Well, that's surprising.

Simon Cowell28:17

That that I I couldn't do this show with dogs. Be nice to everyone. Yes, you're wonderful. Um so yeah, I I I can't bear that.

Presenter28:29

All right. Well, um, it's all paid off. You're worth I read fifty million and rising fast. Is that right? He shrugged, but somewhere around there.

Simon Cowell28:37

I've done well, so you've done well.

Presenter28:39

You've done well. No, absolutely. How many houses have you got?

Simon Cowell28:43

Should I catch it?

Presenter28:43

Should I catch London, LA, Dubai?

Simon Cowell28:47

I've got altogether one, two, uh th five or six. Yeah. All right, okay.

Presenter28:51

All right, okay. Cars?

Simon Cowell28:52

Yeah.

Simon Cowell28:53

Yeah.

Presenter28:55

All convertible.

Simon Cowell28:56

Uh not all, but most, yeah. Most, yeah, yeah.

Presenter28:57

Almost, yeah. So are you, Simon, the man who has it all? Is that the brand we're dealing with here?

Simon Cowell29:03

No.

Presenter29:05

What haven't you got that you'd really like?

Simon Cowell29:05

What's in ch

Simon Cowell29:06

Um I'm always unhappy. I'm always striving for something else. I don't relax.

Simon Cowell29:13

And I've tried to and I can't.

Presenter29:16

What more, what else, are you striving for now, then?

Simon Cowell29:18

Well I'm like the child who when they played Monopoly and someone g puts all the hotels on, I kick the board up. And I'm sort of like that in life. If somebody I know is doing better than me, it really, really makes me unhappy. I'm very, very competitive Sue. You know, I like winning. Um it's not the money. I like winning. I don't like being in second or third place.

Speaker 229:38

But you're winning.

Simon Cowell29:39

Some some of the time yes, some of the time no. Uh but if I feel that I'm not doing my best, I get very, very antsy. I'm not complaining, but that's what I'm like.

Presenter29:50

So will you um

Presenter29:52

Even survive on a desert island, or actually will taking away people and publicity and people to compete against do for you?

Simon Cowell30:00

I'd have to work with the wildlife, but which could be a problem. But you're right, no, being out of uh contact with people would drive me crazy.

Presenter30:09

And what would be your greatest regret?

Simon Cowell30:12

Uh well if I was on the desert island, uh no one's calling me.

Simon Cowell30:17

No news.

Presenter30:19

Last record

Simon Cowell30:20

This record was played uh at my mum's eightieth birthday, and it was an incredible night. Uh we hired the rat pack, and I particularly requested this song, and they did it brilliantly, and it's Sammy Davis Junior, Mr. Bojangles.

Speaker 330:36

Then he shook his head Lord when he shook his head

Speaker 330:44

I could swear I heard someone say please.

Speaker 330:54

Mr. Bojangles.

Speaker 331:00

A Mr. Bojangles

Presenter31:04

Emmy Davis Junior and Mr. Bojangles. Okay, Simon, what's the uh superlative of the superlatives then? Which one would you take if you could only take one of the eight?

Simon Cowell31:18

It has to be Bobby Darren, that's the knife, yeah.

Presenter31:20

Back to the mouse.

Simon Cowell31:21

Yeah.

Presenter31:22

Yeah. What about your book? We give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. Don't know whether you do Shakespeare, do you?

Simon Cowell31:29

Oh God, you mean to read? We'd have to be Shakespeare.

Presenter31:31

Mm.

Simon Cowell31:34

Probably Jackie Collins.

Presenter31:37

What, one of those Hollywood wives?

Simon Cowell31:38

So why not?

Presenter31:39

Yeah, okay.

Simon Cowell31:40

Well, I'm on my own. I'm on the desert island. I might as well have something.

Presenter31:45

And a luxury we give you one luxury, no practical value.

Simon Cowell31:49

Easy.

Simon Cowell31:50

A mirror.

Presenter31:52

I don't believe it.

Simon Cowell31:53

That's true.

Presenter31:54

Why?

Simon Cowell31:55

Because I'd missed me.

Presenter31:57

You're gonna let us broadcast that.

Simon Cowell31:58

I don't care.

Simon Cowell32:00

Well, I'm on my own. No one else around. I might as well have something. I'll have a mirror.

Presenter32:05

You shall have one, Simon Carl. Thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island is. Thank you.

Speaker 332:09

Thank you.

Presenter32:09

Haha.

Speaker 332:11

Uh

Speaker 232:18

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.