George Davies

Speaker 40:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and six, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is a retailer. At various times over the past thirty years he's barnstormed through Britain's High Street, encouraging shoppers to embrace his latest look in smart, affordable clothing. He might have been a footballer, he could have been a dentist, but a stint in the short socks department at Littlewoods convinced him that retail was his calling. In the 1980s he invented the Next Empire, rolling out seventy shops in twelve weeks. Ousted from there in a coup amid claims that he was arrogant and dictatorial, he moved to Asda, where he created the George line of clothing.

Presenter1:02

His latest venture is the Per Una brand for Marks and Spencer, credited as one of the main reasons for the company's recent turnaround. If you get it wrong in retailing, you know it, he says. You're always sitting an exam which the customer is always marking. I'm scared of it still. You never conquer that. He is George Davis. So it's the old exam dream, is it, George? You're always sort of swatting up, but you may not have swatted the right topics.

George Davies1:27

Yes, it's very much you're on edge. You're nervous?

George Davies1:32

And it never stops because even when you're having a good time, which is at the moment, you're producing another collection and the fear is that collection won't work. I mean, every season, even though you have a good season, you'll have certain fashions that don't work that you thought you'd work or you wouldn't have put them in. So what we try to do is to have more winners than losers, but I still have losers. And the losers actually probably teach me more than the winners.

Speaker 41:51

Uh

Presenter2:01

But tell me about the thrill of that. I mean, when you launched Peruna into Marks and Spencer's about four and a half years ago, you did on that day of launch, and you had to go into lots of stores all round the country, you were touring them in trains and planes and motor cars or whatever, and the figures start to come in. I mean, it must be such a thrill when they say, It's working, it's happening.

George Davies2:21

Um there is nothing like.

George Davies2:24

The day of launch of a new brand. And that particular day.

George Davies2:29

will be X'd in my memory because every hour I'd been getting figures and the figures were absolute I mean giving you an example I think on the first day of Marble Arch out of 3,000 square feet of space we took a hundred and eighty thousand pounds now we thought we'd take thirty or forty so that was the most amazing feeling and the success is everybody's because you can't do it on your own and

George Davies3:00

Makes me feel quite emotional, telling you now sorry.

George Davies3:03

That's the trouble when you're a a passionate man. You um it's being a whole build up by your team and it's a team thing. But for one hour you actually enjoy the success and then the next emotion is, Christ, I've got real big problems'cause I'm going to be out of stock.

Presenter3:20

And was the story the same across the land?

George Davies3:22

Oh yeah, yeah, it was phenomenal.

Presenter3:24

So you're off to the desert island anyway, away from the teams and the passion and and the emotion and everything, all on your own. What's the first record you'll play when you get there?

George Davies3:33

Was the Beatles?

George Davies3:35

Do you want to know a secret?

George Davies3:36

As you can probably tell, we come from Liverpool, and Liverpool people are pretty passionate, but this this particular one.

George Davies3:45

means so much to me, not because the Beatles, because I'm the worst singer in the world and the people I can sing to and have to listen to are my kids. And this is the one I used to sing to my kids in a certain way, Do You Wanna Know a Secret? and I take on Do You and every one of my seven kids had to put up with me singing this to them.

Presenter4:06

They come a little closer to hear it, huh?

George Davies4:06

But

George Davies4:08

They know he says, We can't believe your voice is that bad.

Speaker 44:13

Do you want to know a secret? Good.

Speaker 44:18

You promise not to tell I do not know

Speaker 44:26

Let me whisper in your ear Say the words you want to hear

Speaker 44:34

I'm in love with you.

Presenter4:43

That was the Beatles and Do You Want to Know a Secret. Um, George, it's a fast and fickle business, isn't it, fashion. You know, you've got to get it from the drawing board on to the rail very, very quickly.

George Davies4:53

Uh-huh.

George Davies4:54

Yes, and it's got it's got a lot quicker. So we today at Peruna.

George Davies5:00

put in two hundred new fashions every month because people, particularly in a place like Marks and Spencer's, they're shopping there regularly for their food, and therefore, there's an onus on people like myself to actually keep

George Davies5:14

Appealing to you when you go in, and you don't want to see the same fashions for month after month.

Presenter5:19

Has that been the secret of the trick you've pulled for Marks and Spencer's then, that when you first went in there, as I understand it, th th their time from drawing board to rail was months and months, wasn't it?

George Davies5:30

Certainly going back five years ago, it was probably in the main over six or seven months and longer.

George Davies5:38

Obviously today, as you know, the whole of Marks and Spencer's is on a great roll, but a lot of it is to do with now recognizing we need pace and speed.

Presenter5:47

But as as we've said, you're you're not a designer. You look at things that other people have designed, is that right? And you say, I'll have that, I like that, or can we have more of that? or but it's your eye, it's not actually your specific artistic

Presenter6:01

You know, it's not your fingers with the pencil on the page, is it?

George Davies6:04

Yeah, but that that's I think th what the way you're expressing that, it's probably a myth of w what is a designer? I don't mean I don't know.

Presenter6:11

Do you sketch? Do you draw?

George Davies6:12

Of course I can sketch and I own patterns. The actual drawing bit is probably the least important part of it. That's just a technical thing to actually express your thoughts on a piece of paper. First of all, it doesn't start with the uh the product, it starts with the fabric. And the most important thing when you think about fabric is colour. And when I put lime green in three years ago, nobody did it.

Speaker 16:22

Um

George Davies6:34

You then if you ask me where did that come from, I haven't got a clue. But I knew it was I felt it was right.

Presenter6:41

So you've got the fabric, you've got the colour. When do you get to the shape and who gets to the shape?

George Davies6:41

So you click the f

George Davies6:45

Uh

Presenter6:45

To the shed.

George Davies6:45

I am my team of experts in design, but it's a mistake to think I don't design.

George Davies6:55

There's not a garment that goes into Peruna that I haven't worked with my team. I'm not claiming saying, oh, I do it all, I don't. But is my handwriting, is my opinion on every one of those garments yes. And do I actually, on every Monday, get a book as thick as ten Bibles with every garment in it, with every sale, with every stock from every store? That's what then helps me design.

Presenter7:21

So, you read those figures, do you? I know everyone. Immediately knows.

George Davies7:23

I know every Monday.

George Davies7:26

And you ask me every town in this country how the woman thinks in that town, I can tell you.

Presenter7:31

Really? And that's because you look at those figures every Monday morning, you analyze.

George Davies7:35

And there's not a store that I've opened

George Davies7:38

I don't go to.

George Davies7:40

Because it's about detail.

Presenter7:41

And if there's anybody who knows about detail, it's George Davis, eh?

Presenter7:45

Siorforte.

George Davies7:46

Well retail is detail that you shouldn't be in it if you don't want it.

Presenter7:50

Record number two.

George Davies7:51

This is a special record.

George Davies7:53

Lonnie Donegan, The Rock Island Line, and.

George Davies7:57

This takes me back to my childhood, and I had a great uncle who's just that.

George Davies8:05

And I used to go and visit him in his pub in St. Gasof.

George Davies8:09

And I used to sit in the back room till ten o'clock.

George Davies8:12

because kids weren't allowed in pubs and at ten o'clock he locked the doors and then invited all the people back in because he could lock it and I went in and used to sing this song Rock Allen Lynn.

Speaker 48:27

Is that T-Rong won't?

Speaker 48:29

On that Rock Island Line, yes, yes, she's a mighty good road. Oh well the Rock Island 9, she's a mighty good road A Rock Island 9 is a road to ride it The Rock Island 9 She's a mighty good road And if you won't to ride to riding like a finally get your ticket at the station on a Rock Island 9 Well I may be right, I may be wrong I know you're gonna miss me when I'm gone

Presenter8:51

Lonnie Donegan and Rock Island Line. So you're a Liverpool boy, George, and one who was patently the apple of his mother's eye. I mean, she

Presenter8:59

It sounds, reading about you, as if she lived her life vicariously, really, through you, didn't she?

George Davies9:05

Well, I think she programmed me and um she probably programmed my father too. My dad and I didn't have much say. She was so tough, but tough in a really loving way.

Presenter9:15

But she rewrote your history on occasions, didn't she? I mean, she said you were brilliant at school and you weren't necessarily.

George Davies9:21

Oh yes, she said to me, uh, I don't know, four or five years ago that I was always top of the form, and when I said, um listen, I used to just get by at school. If I got sort of fifty per cent, I thought it's brilliant, but she wouldn't have it. And then when I said, No, you're wrong, she said, No, you're not talking about my son like that.

Presenter9:41

And she sent you for elocution lessons?

George Davies9:43

Oh yeah, yes he did. I had to leave school at night and then go into Liverpool to a place called the Crane Theatre and Mrs Ackley would sort of have me there, How now, brown cow.

Presenter9:54

But wouldn't the other kids have taken the Mickey out of you that you were trying to be posh?

George Davies9:58

Didn't tell them.

Presenter9:59

Well but you didn't speak half an hour, Brankhal.

George Davies10:02

Well, not well, not the way well, you can tell now it's not exactly um a great accent, is it? I think the thing is as a kid, you're not aware what you know, if somebody speaks like that, that's fine. It's my mum who was, you know, dictating how she thought I would speak.

Presenter10:16

But you got your nose punched once, didn't you, Phil?

Presenter10:19

I came out of somebody who did speak with the Liverpool accent.

George Davies10:22

Yeah, I was I it was funny that because I was we used to play soccer on a Saturday at some playing fields and does make schools there and um and this boy said, What y what you're here for? And I said, My name's not Hughes, it's Davis and he said, Are you trying to be smart? and w with that he gave you a rill.

Presenter10:41

So she was ambitious for you, but um meanwhile your dad made sausages, is that right?

George Davies10:47

Yeah, my father's a production manager, and he was in fact he was incredible, in truth, to tolerate my mother. And

George Davies10:55

He was just so understanding and in fact it's funny all my kids had a probably a greater admiration from a father because he was so gentle as against my mother who was so dominant. But they got on and um you like to think you pick up certain things from a mum, but I think I picked a lot from a dad.

Presenter11:12

Which one do you think you're more like?

George Davies11:14

I think the passion

George Davies11:16

come from a mother.

George Davies11:18

But I can also be quite level headed and I'm reasonably good with figures and my father was brilliant at that and I'm I'm very quick at that and I think so there's bits and pieces all over. I I'd like to think um

George Davies11:30

As you get older, I developed a lot more like her father.

Presenter11:34

Record number three.

George Davies11:35

This is a record that um having just been speaking about my mother because she used to take me to the cinema and she'd always tell me there was a cowboy on and in fact she sometimes told me whoppers because it was musical and I couldn't stand musicals. But this is about the cowboys, high noon, Frank E. Lane, do not forsake me, oh my darling.

Speaker 112:03

Do not forsake me, O my darling

Speaker 112:09

On this our way.

Speaker 112:16

Do not forsake me, O my darling.

Speaker 112:22

Wait.

Presenter12:25

Uh

Presenter12:26

Frankie Lane, and the theme from the High Noon film of nineteen fifty two, Do Not Forsake Me, O my Darling. But you might have been a a footballer, George. Didn't the great Bill Shankley of Liverpool FC come to your house once? After you?

George Davies12:40

Yes, he did. I was lucky enough to get picked for the under eighteen English team and played against Scotland and again I scored I think the winning goal. And the next morning

George Davies12:53

To our little house in Crosby we moved to Crosby then. Bill Shankley turned up.

George Davies12:59

and asked me to go for trials. And um anyway, after a couple of trials I think they thought I wouldn't make it at that level and I didn't they didn't ask me to go back.

Presenter13:09

And then you went off to become a dentist instead. Well, why dentistry?

George Davies13:13

I've got my A levels, but again, I though my mother would say I've got three A's, I think I got three B's or three C's. And because I didn't think I'd get to university, I didn't apply and I worked for a year in North John Street in Liverpool with the Royal Insurance.

George Davies13:29

And it was really funny because during the lunch time, the cavern was just about two hundred yards down the road, so all of us sort of eighteen year olds would leave the stuffy uh atmosphere and be in the cavern.

Presenter13:42

And this was what just the turn of the decade, right? Late fifties, early sixties.

George Davies13:45

Yeah, and the cavern had just started and Liverpool was an amazing scene then. But what I remember was getting back, having been diving down at the cavern, and you'd be sweating, your face would be red, the collar would be undone, and you'd get a right bollocking from the bosses. So anyway, I was working then, actually, it was the biggest hoot that year.

Speaker 114:02

Yeah.

George Davies14:07

Then my mother announced to me that I was going to university, and she'd gone to see my old headmaster, John D. Burbier. He said the course that was easiest to get into was dentistry, so I then turned up for an interview.

Presenter14:19

This was Birmingham, wasn't it?

George Davies14:20

And that was Birmingham, yeah?

Presenter14:21

Yeah.

George Davies14:21

And um I carried on from my school days that I didn't work at Bowman, but I got into the British University soccer side, so that was fine too, and there was plenty of girls there too.

Presenter14:29

But they soon discovered you were no dentist, eh?

George Davies14:31

Yeah, they they asked me would I like to stay on another year and repeat, I think, after the first or second year. And I thought, you know, it was twenty one, I wasn't going to raise a year in my life. And so I never went back. And my mum said to me,

George Davies14:46

I do think it'd be a good idea if you got a job. And I I thought, well, what I'd do, I'll write to two of the biggest companies. One was Pilkington's and the other was Littlewood's.

George Davies14:58

So I turned up at Littlewoods and I think they let anybody in and they said you can have a job. And um if you start doing something you love, I've never thought I worked. I mean I I work in the sense, but when I started at Littlewoods I can tell you I've never looked back. I've enjoyed every day of my life.

Presenter15:19

What a wonderful thing to be able to say.

Presenter15:21

Record number four.

George Davies15:23

Jerry and the Pacemakers, you'll never walk alone.

Presenter15:27

We know the reasons for this.

Speaker 415:32

Ah

Speaker 415:34

With hope in your heart.

Presenter15:59

Jerry and the Pacemakers, and you'll never walk alone. So the budding dentist, George Davis, becomes head of short socks at Littlewoods and discovers his calling. We're talking ankle socks here, aren't we?

George Davies16:09

Children's ankle socks

Presenter16:10

Children's ankle. So little white ankle socks like we all wore in the fifties.

George Davies16:14

Yes. It was actually ankle socks and what they called half hose, you know, up to the knee. Uh I don't think it was the biggest risk job they were giving me. Uh I went in as a a stock controller and that meant I had to send the stock no computers then send the stock to all the stores. And I remember I got

Presenter16:19

Uh

George Davies16:34

The biggest dressing down I've probably had in my life when I got called up by the head of Stock and Trump and he said, I've just had John Dew. It shows how I remember this. John Dew from Manchester Nine store, because he still had a number. And he thinks you're the biggest ignoramus he's ever come across. I said, What have I done? He said,

George Davies16:58

Don't you know it's Whitwalks?

George Davies17:01

And in fact, during Whitwalks as remember when we used to have a Whit Monday off? And it was a

George Davies17:08

Big festival.

Presenter17:09

It's like a church anniversary used to be. Exactly. And they wore the battle.

George Davies17:10

Yes. Exactly. And they wore the pressure. And they all went down Morris dancers. And of course the sales if I'd looked a year ago, the sales went from ten dozen to two hundred dozen. Everything was dozens. I mean, the kids don't probably know what we're talking about. And what that has actually not just plain that's why

George Davies17:29

I became so keen on the differences of people in different parts of the country.

Presenter17:33

But then after that, so that I mean a terrific grounding and you went to the mills, didn't you? The cotton mills.

George Davies17:37

Littlewoods, um I've never been able to give anybody the training they gave me because I spent months first of all I had to s if I wanted to get in design and buying, I had to go into the stores to learn about customers. They then put me three months working in Lancashire mills because Lancashire made all the cotton, Yorkshire made all the wool, so I had to then knitting was coming through and I d that was Leicester. And then they put me through exams.

Presenter17:43

Yeah.

Speaker 117:44

Yeah.

Presenter18:04

And then from there you joined a company called Pippa Dee, which which sold, I think, a bit like Tupperware at parties in women's homes, didn't it?

George Davies18:10

Yes, very similar to Tepewa. And they'd started out.

George Davies18:14

As jokingly termed, knicker parties. And what happened was it was like Tupperware, but these girls used to go out with two casefuls, what they could carry, and hold the party. And it was basically based on laundry. So we changed it from being just laundry into outerwear. A lot of people did it, but they'd have a blouse that didn't go with a skirt. And I thought the best bet would be we did a piece of network that went with a skirt.

Presenter18:35

Mm-hmm.

George Davies18:41

that went with the blase.

George Davies18:43

Extending the light.

Presenter18:44

It all sounds so obvious now, but of course then it was new, wasn't it? And this was the

George Davies18:48

There was thir the interesting thing was

George Davies18:51

Thirteen thousand women.

George Davies18:53

worked for that business. And when we get a winning line, I always remember this, it was bigger. The line was bigger, the volume you'd take than what Marks and Spencer sold. And basically, we turned it round, it went from four P to twenty eight P.

George Davies19:11

I had a rout with the chairman and I by that time I was on the board and I got the chairman who had 30% of the business fired.

George Davies19:18

So he didn't like that. So he got it back by selling the company, and then they fired me.

Presenter19:24

Next piece of music. What is it? Number five.

George Davies19:27

There's a story behind this regarding Pipidae.

George Davies19:31

When I was at Pippidi.

George Davies19:33

We actually used to do big fashion shows and get all the girls together and reward and recognition. It was a big event.

George Davies19:40

We had a division in Holland.

George Davies19:42

And

George Davies19:43

They sent me over. Well, I j went over and I said, I'm going to do a similar thing as we've done in England. And I got there and I was expecting there to be a choreographer. I'd watch choreographers do the steps and do it but, you know, it's not my line.

George Davies19:56

But I actually had to go onstage and teach the models the routine and

George Davies20:02

One of the things that brought the house down in Amsterdam.

George Davies20:06

It was money, money, money.

Speaker 420:08

Hey Monday, Monday, always Sunday.

Speaker 420:12

In the rich man's club

Speaker 420:24

Little mummy

Speaker 420:26

It's a rich man's world.

Speaker 420:32

It's a rich man's world

Presenter20:34

Uh

Speaker 420:34

Uh

Presenter20:35

That was ABBA and money, money, money. So next came next, George. Um it was nineteen eighties, created out of Hepworths, which had been around for a hundred years or more, wasn't it? Sort of Leeds-based men's outfitters, wasn't it? Um and they called you in.

Speaker 120:48

Ah

Presenter20:50

Because when you introduce woman women's wear, you turned it around and made it into, am I right, the nation's third largest clothing retailer after MNS and Arcadia. Huge. But it was a total fit, really, for you, wasn't it? It was exactly what you'd been doing, as we've just heard, at Pipperdy and so on, only in a kind of stand alone high street sense.

George Davies21:11

It was a concert came out of the Pippa Dee bag.

George Davies21:14

First of all

George Davies21:16

putting a range together, not just simple red with red with red, but a whole range of collection that would work together. And we had four main colour stories.

Presenter21:26

Yes. But you'd always have the handbag there, wouldn't you? Handbag sideways on to the side.

George Davies21:29

Yeah.

George Davies21:31

We had pigeonholes above the the rails. So actually you could see this array. You want to give the opportunity, you want to display you don't want to display just in an artistic way. It's got to be so that it's easy for you to reach a decision.

Presenter21:32

Yeah.

Presenter21:43

Is it something?

Presenter21:46

And it worked, obviously, through the eighties. Well, eighty two to eighty eight. I mean, you were increasing profits by something like forty percent year on year, weren't you? It was amazing. But then in nineteen eighty eight, the wheels started to come off, and overnight you were out. It was said

George Davies21:52

It's by summing.

George Davies21:55

It was a

Presenter22:03

You overreached yourself. You were so keen to keep on expanding and having new ideas, you went into too much and spread it all too wide. That's true, isn't it?

George Davies22:14

Um

George Davies22:17

Well, if I if I if it was true, why are they doing all the things that I did?

George Davies22:22

That's what I'd ask. I mean, in fact people did say I went for big stores. Well if you look today, next have one of the biggest stores I think is ninety thousand square feet in Manchester.

Speaker 122:22

Uh

Speaker 422:22

Uh

Speaker 122:22

Yeah.

Presenter22:32

But if it wasn't true, why did they get rid of you?

George Davies22:35

Politics

George Davies22:36

Politics, men.

Presenter22:36

Yeah

George Davies22:40

Yeah.

Presenter22:40

Yeah.

George Davies22:42

I hate them. But I'll tell you what you'll never hear me say. People may have criticised me, but nobody has ever heard me criticise next.

George Davies22:50

Or George. I may move on, but I love them.

Presenter22:54

Record number six.

George Davies22:57

It's the song we used to sing at all the great conferences that we did at next, and those conferences came out of what I learned at Pippa D.

George Davies23:06

And nobody on the retail did conferences and reward conferences like Nex did then. The Weather Girls success.

Speaker 423:18

Nothing comes between us and our Calvin Klein Chain.

Speaker 423:26

Holster and ball

Speaker 423:28

I'm in two.

Speaker 423:30

Watch these bats and queens come through success. We've got success, we've got success. Don't settle for less, we've got an older one.

Presenter23:44

That was the Weather Girls and Success and Memories of Next. I is it true you suffered

Presenter23:49

From depression after the next experience. It g get you down that. Got quite you lost your drive somewhere, did you?

George Davies23:53

Quite late.

George Davies23:55

No, no, no, it wasn't that. I um

George Davies23:58

The first time I had depression was when I was eighteen.

George Davies24:02

And it w no, it wasn't anything to do with next. It in fact I don't think it was it clinical depression doesn't work like that. Funny if it was um

George Davies24:11

After I'd left.

George Davies24:13

Lucia, Jessica, and Liz that I had massive clinical depression again, and that was the start of George, so it wasn't next.

Presenter24:20

Is that your your second wife?

George Davies24:22

Yeah.

George Davies24:24

And um when I had it really bad in fifteen, sixteen years ago, I I really decided I had to do something about it and um

George Davies24:36

I found somebody in London who was a psychiatrist or

George Davies24:40

Doctor Leyland. I I went there every week for two years to try and understand it.

Speaker 424:45

Hmm.

George Davies24:46

And um I've always touched wood.

George Davies24:49

I got three, but it was a lot to do with um I think it's all to do with my childhood, my fears, and uh I think there was a chemical imbalance.

Presenter24:58

And is it also does it explain you you're obviously a very emotional person. I mean, you come quite close to tears quite often, don't you?

George Davies25:06

Yes, I do, but th I didn't then. That's the interesting thing.

George Davies25:10

It allowed me probably to

George Davies25:13

except myself a lot more.'Cause, you know, we've all got a I don't think anybody's born without fears and worries. Thank God. And I you know, y y a bit like fashion, you can never say, Oh, well, it's gone forever, but it's been a away for a long time but I I I had to sort myself out. You can't sort yourself out just with the pills. And I owe it to this Doctor Leyland.

George Davies25:36

Yeah.

George Davies25:37

is really to do with my deep, deep feelings for Italy, where I've been inspired and is still my greatest inspiration regarding fashion. I love the people, the way they work. Luciano Pavrotti.

George Davies25:53

Singing Caruso.

Speaker 426:03

I am not afraid of the world.

Speaker 426:13

Maruino chipenso poy tanto.

Presenter26:16

Bye.

Presenter26:25

That was Luciano Pavarotti and Caruso.

Presenter26:29

George, you've patently got the knack. You've pulled the same trick three times in the High Street.

Presenter26:35

What is it that you have, or perhaps you can't even explain it?

George Davies26:40

I've got certain places all over the world that I go to, and they're not the big stores.

George Davies26:48

There's a street at the back of Barcelona which I'm not going to tell you about because it's secret. But I always go there and they know me. And they tell me and they t and they're very individual and they're

Presenter26:59

So there's a bit of healthy plagiarism goes on in secret places.

George Davies27:02

And then what

Presenter27:02

The it Uh

George Davies27:03

Uh You see a trend not to say, oh, that's a nice blouse, I'll copy it. I never do that.

George Davies27:09

But if I see a trend and feel a trend, and it's not from my dad, the people who do the catwalk shows, you know, the top designers, everybody gets that. So everybody can see that.

George Davies27:21

It's also, I mean, they'll lynch me back in the office because lots of these ideas are coming from a team too, and we're but we work together.

Presenter27:30

Sure, but you know, you've got to be at the centre pulling out the threads that you really like and weaving them together to make one, and discarding the bits you don't want, and that's that's what you do, isn't it?

George Davies27:39

Yes, I do, but if you the the great I think the greatest thing that I've done is actually leaving teams behind both at Next and George that have carried on, certainly without me.

Presenter27:51

Hmm.

George Davies27:52

And they've they've done a brilliant job, haven't they? So and that gives me

Presenter27:55

Taking some of the best with you each time though, mind you.

George Davies27:55

Taking some of the best

George Davies27:59

Any because um

Presenter28:00

You're married to them.

George Davies28:01

Yeah, I married them, yeah. Well, Fiona is Fiona my wife is

George Davies28:06

probably the the greatest inspiration regarding business. She has got far more, I think, inherent style than I have.

Presenter28:16

You're now sixty-four, George. Um you've not been in the best of I mean, you've you've had a brain tumour, haven't you? And you've had

George Davies28:23

Okay.

Presenter28:24

Colon cancer?

George Davies28:26

Yeah.

Presenter28:26

I mean

George Davies28:26

Now I didn't have cancer.

Presenter28:27

You didn't.

George Davies28:28

They thought it was cancer, and I must admit, they operated me and it turned out to be an abscess.

Presenter28:33

You're never going to stop working, are you?

George Davies28:35

No.

George Davies28:36

Yeah

Presenter28:38

Yeah.

George Davies28:38

That's right, no, because what could it do?

Presenter28:38

That's right.

George Davies28:41

It's an absolute pleasure.

Presenter28:44

But you've done it for others now. You you did Next, you moved on, you did George at Asda, you've moved on, you've done Peruna at Marx and Spencer, they now own that brand.

Presenter28:54

I've heard a whisper that you might one day create George the Fourth.

Presenter28:58

In a new standalone High Street brand, would you do that? Is that going to happen one day?

George Davies29:05

I mean, you I don't think one would ever say never.

George Davies29:09

But um the way I feel at the moment I don't want to ever damage Peruna and Marks and Spencer's. I have a great relationship with Stuart. We're both fiery. Stuart Rose. Stuart Rose.

Presenter29:21

Stuart Rose, M. D. Mark Spencer's.

George Davies29:23

I honestly mean this. I've got nothing on the horizon.

Presenter29:28

But you could have.

Presenter29:30

I'm pressing you now.

George Davies29:30

I'm pressing you now.

George Davies29:34

There's lots of other issues. If I was totally selfish, I'd say to you, yes, that's what I'm going to do. But as I've got a little bit older, I think I'm not.

George Davies29:43

Quite so self-centered, and I want to be do the right thing for people.

George Davies29:47

Yes, I'd like to do a new concept, but if I can do it with Stewart and people at MNS, that's fine.

George Davies29:53

You don't actually have to

George Davies29:56

Always have this big break, which I've had in the past.

Presenter29:59

Once or twice.

Presenter30:01

Last record.

George Davies30:03

I first heard this record.

George Davies30:05

When I was with a great pal of mine in Turkey, Attila Turkman, we were two like two young boys in his ranger with the windows down at midnight.

Speaker 430:15

Mm-hmm.

George Davies30:15

Singing together.

George Davies30:17

Yeah.

George Davies30:19

Unbelievable.

Speaker 430:21

Do you believe in life after love?

Speaker 430:26

I can feel something inside me, says I really don't think it's strong enough. No, do you believe in life after love?

Speaker 430:41

I can feel something inside me say I really don't think you're strong enough

Presenter30:50

That was share and believe. Now, George, if you could only take one of those eight records, which one would you take?

George Davies30:56

I think I'd get bored.

George Davies30:58

Tried to sing Rock Allen Line

Presenter31:01

Uh

George Davies31:01

Yeah. But I'd never get bored.

George Davies31:03

Of You'll Never Walk Alone.

Presenter31:06

Cherry and the Pacemakers. What about your book? We give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. What book of your own would you like to take?

George Davies31:14

I thought about this.

George Davies31:17

And I think I'd take a book that helped me to do something creative, like painting. Because when you said about me being ill, when I've h had enforced rest, not for long, even the brain tumor, I was only off for three weeks. But I did start painting. And I'm not a great painter, but I think it's wonderful if you can paint. So I think it'd be wonderful to have a book that helps me paint.

Presenter31:41

And a luxury.

George Davies31:43

I Cannondale bike

Presenter31:46

What is it? What does it do?

George Davies31:47

It's a hand-built road bike, but I might have to have like cross-country tyres on it, but I'd definitely have my bike because I

George Davies31:56

Every weekend, every spare hour, I'm on my bike trying to keep fit.

Presenter32:01

George Davis, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Speaker 432:12

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.