Sir Digby Jones

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and six, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is an evangelist. Actually, he's a lawyer by training and profession, but for the last six and a half years it's been his job to promote British business to itself, to Britain, and to the world. It's a high-profile role, and he's acquitted it with gusto, a word that epitomises his approach to practically everything he does. His family were shopkeepers in the Midlands at a time when Longbridge was the acme of British car making and Birmingham hummed with industrial pride. He won a scholarship to the local public school and became head boy. Then he travelled via the law and a stint at the accountancy giant KPMG to his present position where, as the beaming, energetic and tirelessly enthusiastic champion of British industry, he's walked the tightrope between commerce and politics with remarkable agility. If the businessmen and women of Britain say jump, he says, I say how high? He is the Director General of the CBI, the Confederation of British Industry, Sir Digby Jones. So you're you're a biddable sort of chap, are you, Digby? People ask you to do something, you do it.

Sir Digby Jones1:31

I'm not actually known as somebody who's been a yes man at any time, I think, but uh in this job, as as actually with being a lawyer as well, and I guess I got it from mum and dad serving customers in the shop. The customer comes first, and the customer comes second, third and fourth as well.

Presenter1:47

As I say, all those words, I use gusto, energy, enthusiasm. I mean, one journalist wrote that you bounced about like a squashball on speed. Are you like those in your personal life as well? I mean, do you ever lie down? Do you ever stop?

Sir Digby Jones1:49

Um

Sir Digby Jones1:57

I mean do you have

Sir Digby Jones1:59

Well well, I'm I'm one of these people who I need about five and a half, six hours sleep a night.

Presenter2:02

Hmm.

Sir Digby Jones2:03

And people say I have great energy, great enthusiasm. I've never done anything other than 150%.

Presenter2:03

Uh

Presenter2:06

I never

Presenter2:08

And you ran the marathon last year. You've ridden a bicycle from Johnny Groves to Lansing, and it just doesn't stop. What an exhausting person you must be to live with.

Sir Digby Jones2:09

Yeah.

Sir Digby Jones2:12

Yeah.

Sir Digby Jones2:14

In person, you must be delivering. Well, yes, Pat actually always says, you know, that I go at one speech, he goes at another, and I think that's right.

Presenter2:22

But it runs of course a lot deeper than that, doesn't it?'Cause what it is all about is feeling, presumably, that you've got to give of your best'cause that's what you've been put on earth to do.

Sir Digby Jones2:31

To make a difference.

Sir Digby Jones2:33

And and also very important this.

Sir Digby Jones2:37

People respond to enthusiastic, cheerful people.

Sir Digby Jones2:42

And it's very easy, you know, to get cross and despondent with boring, depressing people. Whereas something I've followed all my life, it's very difficult, you know, to tell a cheerful man off. Because at the end of the day, they're full of it. I'm a great believer in sumo. I mean, it's something to do with my size, I think. And that is, shut up, move on. And if today didn't work, well, tomorrow is up for you.

Presenter3:05

Okay, shut up, move on, tell us about your first record.

Sir Digby Jones3:07

Tell us about your first record. I'm on the development trust of the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, and Simon Rattle, of course, was formative to the re-emergence of Birmingham, the restructuring of Birmingham after the recession. As for the content, Algar's Nimrod from Enigma Variations. So many times in our history we've sent young people to die in the name of freedom all over the world. And for me, when I stand and listen to that every November, I just remember that I couldn't be.

Sir Digby Jones3:40

The independent soul I am. I couldn't be free if it wasn't for the people who laid down their lives for us, and that's what this means to me.

Presenter4:39

Well there we are, part of Elgar's Nimrod from the Enigma variations played by the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Simon Rattle. Digby Jones, I gather when you were headhunted for the job at the CBI back at the turn of the century, wasn't it? Your wife took one look at the job description and said, It's you, Digby. Now, what did she see? Why was it you?

Sir Digby Jones4:57

Now

Sir Digby Jones4:59

Well that that's absolutely right. In fact, when the headhunter called and said I'd like to talk to you about Director General of the CBI, I thought he was asking me for a reference on someone else actually. And he said, Oh, no, we we we thought uh you might do it and I said oh no, no, that goes to clever grey suited people from London. He said

Presenter5:14

That's right.

Sir Digby Jones5:15

That's right. And he said, oh no, we want to make a difference. So he knew I wasn't clever. I knew I didn't come from London. I didn't wear a grey suit. I remember Pat picked me up from the airport one night and she said, this has come through. I've read it and it's just you. And she just saw something in it about how I could hopefully fashion the wealth creative process, put in with it something I've believed all my life, what I call socially inclusive wealth creation. So I think she saw that and

Presenter5:40

But it meant a huge, huge drop in salary.

Sir Digby Jones5:42

Oh yes.

Presenter5:43

How much by how much

Presenter5:46

But we're not talking about a pittance. I mean, what are we talking about? Half a million to a quarter of a million? Yes.

Sir Digby Jones5:48

We took it off the main.

Sir Digby Jones5:50

Yes, actually, spot on.

Presenter5:52

Yeah.

Sir Digby Jones5:52

Yeah. And uh it's still ten times what a nurse earned. And I'm a very, very lucky lad to be able to have that money. But in relative lifestyles it was a big change.

Presenter6:00

It's so

Presenter6:01

Give me some other statistics. How many speeches do you make in an average week?

Sir Digby Jones6:04

In an average week I probably do about on average two a day. I work every night. Every night, Monday, Friday.

Presenter6:10

How many formal dinners and lunches, then, do you?

Sir Digby Jones6:12

Oh, I eat and drink from the country. I won the battle against anorexia years ago, and uh.

Presenter6:18

How much weight have you gained?

Sir Digby Jones6:19

Uh

Sir Digby Jones6:19

Three and a half stone.

Presenter6:21

Well in the job

Sir Digby Jones6:22

In the job. It's very difficult because you see, the trouble is, I love food and I love wine and I love people and I love going to dinners and listening and talking and mixing. I love it.

Presenter6:32

Record number two.

Sir Digby Jones6:34

Well, Younger Than Springtime was one of the hits from South Pacific, which was around when I was sort of five, six, seven years old. And so it reminds me of a very happy childhood of parents who had no money, but they gave me love and enthusiasm. And I own, and whenever I hear it, I think of them.

Speaker 26:55

And when you're you

Speaker 26:59

And joy inflame my arms, And fill my heart, as now they do.

Speaker 27:12

L younger than springtime.

Presenter7:21

Younger Than Springtime from Rogers and Hammerstein's South Pacific, sung by Sean McDermott on the soundtrack of the film. So it takes us back to the fifties, Digby Jones, in Alfchurch near Longbridge, of South Africa, near the cold line.

Sir Digby Jones7:28

Stinky jail.

Sir Digby Jones7:31

Oh yes, about a mile and a half from the car plant. So they were your customers? Oh totally. I mean uh I I wouldn't know, but I'd say ninety percent of the people who bought groceries and sweets and ice cream and cigarettes off mum and dad, they would be working at Longbridge making the mini and the eleven hundred and

Presenter7:33

So they were your customers.

Presenter7:47

Well, of course that the mini must have been launched when you were starting to get away from the market.

Sir Digby Jones7:49

Oh yes, I have a memory. I was standing in the shop, I was about five years old and uh and these little cars, these amazing little cars, used to drive past because they used to store them up the road by the canal. And everybody relied on the factory. I think that also gave me this feeling that business must be responsible in its society because that community in Alfchurch depended on the Austin.

Presenter8:09

So you were the little boy, Mr. and Mrs. Jones. Where did you get this posh name Digby from?

Sir Digby Jones8:12

Yeah.

Sir Digby Jones8:14

Well, mum was pregnant with me and she read Beauchest. And if I came out a boy, I was going to be this name from Beauchest called Digby, because Jones was such a common surname that I was going to be different. Joe's brother Digby, yeah. Yes, mum and dad weren't to know that they're going to bring out a television series called Digby Darling and that Disney was going to create a dog called Digby. Woof. And it was a difficult time in terms of teasing, but in the profession. Oh, yeah, and in the profession, as a lawyer, they never forgot you. And in this job, if you say Digby in Britain, people, if they've ever heard of it at all, and lots happened, of course, they probably do think of me. Thanks, Mum and Dad. But I have to tell you, as a kid at school, I used to come home in tears saying, They've teased me, I'm gone. Why wouldn't I be called David or Simon?

Presenter8:25

Who's Brother Digby?

Presenter8:39

Oh yeah.

Speaker 18:44

Yes.

Sir Digby Jones9:00

Number 3.

Sir Digby Jones9:01

Through school days and into university and afterwards, rugby's played a big part of my life. I I've I'm now on the board of Leicester Tigers Rugby Club and all the way through played a lot of rugby. And of course Jerusalem is one of those hymns which become a song of unity, a song of pride in your country that you sing at internationals, we used to sing it after games, and it has a great connection for me with that. But at the same time

Sir Digby Jones9:26

A mixture of sadness and happiness is that uh some of those people in your forties and your fifties don't make it. And we've all got friends, haven't we, who've succumbed to cancer or heart disease or whatever. And a couple of them our friends have, and at their memorial services and at their funerals we've sung Jerusalem and uh we've raised the roof.

Sir Digby Jones9:46

And so to me, uh on a desert island, uh I would definitely want to be able to listen to Jerusalem often. It would remind me of good people who are no longer here. It would remind me of fabulous fellowship that you can get out of

Sir Digby Jones10:00

rugby and at the same time

Sir Digby Jones10:03

It's something about this green and pleasant land called England.

Speaker 210:17

A sleeceful land divine.

Speaker 210:25

I saw what stay in my eyes.

Speaker 210:32

Dear We are styling.

Presenter11:06

The second half of Sir Hubert Parry's Jerusalem, words by William Bake, of course, sung by the choir of Saint George's Chapel, Windsor. So come the sixties, Digby, come the supermarket. Your father felt the pressure.

Sir Digby Jones11:17

Yeah.

Presenter11:18

I mean, it happens all the time still in Washington. But he took radical action, didn't he?

Sir Digby Jones11:19

Time still today.

Sir Digby Jones11:23

Yeah, well he did. He said I'm selling up and he went to university, Leicester, and became a probation officer. And so my sister and I were told by them it's going to be difficult for a while. Yeah. Live on a grant. Mum went off and became an assistant physiotherapist at the local hospital. But we had to be incredibly careful, you know.

Presenter11:35

Not

Presenter11:45

But you did the decent thing and won a scholarship to a smart school, Bronze Grove Public School. This is very posh.

Sir Digby Jones11:45

Uh

Sir Digby Jones11:47

Yeah.

Sir Digby Jones11:51

Well, and I learnt a lot about life there as well. And I sat this exam, I didn't really know I was ten when I sat this exam and and they said uh if you get it

Presenter11:54

Oh.

Sir Digby Jones12:01

You go to this school and your fees are paid. And uh I did, and they were. And you loved it. Did you shine? Did you shine on

Presenter12:06

And you loved it. Did you shine? Did you shine on the sports field as well as in the classroom?

Sir Digby Jones12:09

Rugby and hockey and cricket. One year I went into the class for the year ahead and every term you had to bring your report home. And I came second. And dad opened it and said, what happened to first?

Sir Digby Jones12:25

And I can remember running out in tears, you know, and uh when I got married, Dad and I went and had a a drink the night before the wedding and he said, Have I ever done anything which really did hurt you? And I said, uh, oh yeah and I told him the story there and then and he knew'cause he said, Well, what did you do the next term?

Speaker 112:27

And I

Speaker 212:28

Oh

Sir Digby Jones12:41

I said I came first. He said exactly.

Sir Digby Jones12:44

And holidays, school holidays, I used to come out used to give me projects to do. Go and do me a project on the canal system Birmingham, when it was built, where it is, how it is. And that was my school school holiday from there.

Presenter12:53

He worked on you, didn't you? He knew the material he got, didn't he? Yes.

Sir Digby Jones12:53

He knew the material he got, didn't he? Yes, and became headboy of the school and played in the 15, got my colours in hockey, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Presenter13:00

I thoroughly enjoyed it. You were kicked out of the middle of the middle of the house. Let's just get that.

Sir Digby Jones13:03

Well yes, I had an interesting leavings let's just get oh yes after 81s. I was leaving in a couple of weeks' time and we won the House uh Cup 1-0. I was the captain and and we were getting changed afterwards and the team were all, you know, celebrating and they said, I bet you wouldn't go and streak once around the quad. I said, oh, better we'll so I did, which was okay until the housemaster came the other way.

Sir Digby Jones13:25

And that was me gone. And at uh half past four I was a streaking head boy and at about six o'clock I was a former pupil. Expelled. And yeah, don't come back. Now, of course, since I had this job, they're very keen to have me back and uh

Presenter13:38

But at the time it must have been devastating, seriously.

Sir Digby Jones13:40

Seriously? Yes, it it was. It was very, very worrying for my parents. It was very worrying for myself. Interestingly, I joined the Royal Navy and so I thought I should own up to that. So about day two I went and saw the commanding officer to say, Look, you didn't know this when you recruited me, but I thought it was the right thing to do and he said

Sir Digby Jones13:58

Withdrawn from school, what for? I said, he said, drugs? I said, oh, God, no. He said, what? I said, well, I took all my clothes off and ran around the corner. He said, oh, we do that all the time here. Carry on. And that was it. And it put it into context, of course. And I go back to the school now, and I did speak at their commemoration as director on the CBI, and I couldn't resist it. And when I was introduced, ladies and gentlemen, Digby Jones, I stood up and said, as I was saying before, I was rudely interrupted.

Presenter14:23

Recognize all.

Sir Digby Jones14:25

Neil Diamond is my favourite performer and uh if I was on a desert island I could only have one performer, it would be him, and my favourite song would be Hello Again.

Speaker 214:39

Maybe it's been crazy.

Speaker 214:42

And maybe I'm to blame.

Speaker 214:46

But I put my heart above my head.

Speaker 214:54

We've been through it all and you love me just the same

Speaker 215:02

When you're not there

Presenter15:04

Neil Diamond and hello again. There was another blow to come, though, Digby Jones, which was that you'd

Presenter15:11

Got your A levels, you'd passed the Oxford entrance exam and then you went for an interview at Trinity and they wouldn't have you.

Sir Digby Jones15:16

Well, yes, they actually wrote afterwards and said, we feel that the type of education we provide, you're not suited to it.

Presenter15:23

And uh what did you think then that that

Sir Digby Jones15:23

What did you think then that they made? At the time, I just saw it as rejection, and I just thought they were wrong, and I was right. I actually think now, I think they made the right decision. I have a sense of non-conformity and a sense of independence and liberalness, if you like, that was probably better suited to University College London, to be honest.

Presenter15:44

Oh yeah, so

Sir Digby Jones15:47

Oh, yes. I I was a conceited little so and so. And well, actually I was almost a conceited big so and so. And I probably did walk in there and they probably thought, well, we'll bring him down a pegger too. And I then got in in the Royal Navy. I went to University College London.

Presenter16:00

So the Royal Navy paid for your education.

Sir Digby Jones16:02

Yes, because I couldn't get a grant, mum and dad obviously couldn't help, and so I cut the coupon.

Presenter16:07

What were you midshipmen?

Sir Digby Jones16:08

Midshipman, CO22950B.

Presenter16:10

However, you turned your back on them when you came out, because you took articles, didn't you? You went back home to a law firm in Birmingham.

Sir Digby Jones16:14

Back home to a law firm in Venice.

Presenter16:17

What what happens?'Cause they paid for you.

Sir Digby Jones16:19

Yes, and you then are expected to sign on for sixteen years, but they do give you the option to come out, but you have to repay. It's a little bit like top-up fees today, actually. You have to repay. And I paid two thousand and ninety four pounds and ninety five P over ten years. And

Speaker 116:30

And they and I'm

Sir Digby Jones16:37

Two hundred and ninety five quid ten years on was nothing. Two hundred and ninety five quid the year you came out was everything.

Presenter16:42

So you've not got a lot of sympathy for top-up fees, tuition fees?

Sir Digby Jones16:44

Well the only thing I think it should be is more. The employers pay £18 billion more a year, £18 billion more to graduates than non-graduates. A little bit of that coming back to help. Business paying more, taxpayer paying more, altogether is the way to help universities in this country.

Presenter17:01

And people setting out in life with a huge debt round their necks.

Sir Digby Jones17:04

Well, I did.

Sir Digby Jones17:05

And it's how you look at it, isn't it? It's whether you see it as an investment or whether you see it as a waste. What we have got to do is make sure, and this is where it's failing, is we must make sure that people who do not come from homes where they're good with money, notice I didn't say rich people, but just where they're not good with money, where they haven't got the discipline or they haven't got the understanding, they might will be bright enough to go to university and yet they'll be turned off by the sheer fear of debt. And that is dreadful. But the concept of paying back some afterwards when you're making money and only when you're making money, I do think is right, because I did it. And so I came out, I went to the law firm and built my career at Edgen Allison in Birmingham.

Presenter17:49

More music.

Sir Digby Jones17:50

In 1982, I'd been married, I got divorced, my wife left me with somebody else, and so 1982 was a bit of a seminal moment because I was all on my own working hard.

Presenter17:59

She'd leave you because you work too hard.

Sir Digby Jones17:59

Yeah.

Sir Digby Jones18:00

Well, I think one of the reasons. I do think I was quite a bit to blame in terms of working very hard and not getting home enough. And then there I was, I remember a Sirocco GTI, Friday night at Liberty's on the Hagley Road in Birmingham, and enjoying life a bit more after I got over the upset and yes, the considerable hurt. And George Benson's In Your Eyes was one of the songs of the time that whenever I hear it, I will remember that you really can just pick yourself up, dust yourself down, and start all over again. And that is precisely what I did. And I say this to anybody listening, if you've just gone through some sort of breakup, you think your world has ended. And rightly. Well, tomorrow is another day. And I promise you, it will get better. And this song reminds me of that because it got better for me.

Speaker 218:46

Warned me that life changes.

Speaker 218:50

The whole one really

Speaker 218:53

Whether time would make us strangers, Or whether time would make us grow.

Speaker 218:59

Even though the winds of time will change, In a world where nothing stays the same.

Speaker 219:07

Through it all, our love would still remain.

Presenter19:16

In Your Eyes and George Benson there and memories, as you say, D.B. Jones, of finding yourself again. You obviously worked very hard. I mean, looking at the the record, I mean, after twelve years with Edgen Ellison, you you were the top dog. It moved from, what, ten partners to eighty five partners.

Presenter19:32

But then you got bored, you wanted to move on. Why?

Sir Digby Jones19:35

It's quite interesting to see the development of the firm. We really did work hard, play hard and build it up. Then I moved into helping to run the firm, actually manage the firm.

Speaker 119:45

Firm.

Sir Digby Jones19:46

But it's finite in its attraction because after a while it's it's very wearing and it and it wasn't everything I thought it'd be crapped up to be, to be honest. And that doesn't mean that it wasn't important and that I enjoyed it. But it

Presenter19:57

But you also wanted to expand further, didn't you? You wanted to do mergers, you wanted to grow the company even more, and a lot of other people didn't.

Sir Digby Jones20:00

Yeah.

Sir Digby Jones20:03

Yes, we took the the we took the firm to to London, we took it around affiliates in the United States and in Europe. But there were a lot of partners who were making good money, working hard, doing well. Well, why would they want to go out of the calm water into the stormy water and push and challenge themselves more than they had to?

Presenter20:22

That's also, isn't it, if you've got a kind of low boredom threshold, which I suspect you have.

Sir Digby Jones20:25

Yes, I have. And it was beginning to get a bit tedious.

Presenter20:27

Yeah.

Presenter20:28

We have to move on.

Presenter20:30

That's what people say sometimes, isn't it? You sort of have some great ideas and you put them all into operation and then say, Right, no, you can do that, I'm off on to the next thing.

Sir Digby Jones20:37

Yes, I do actually think and I've I've learnt this in this job, you know, you there are people who are excellent at building things and teams and inspiring people and driving them forward and growing. And then there are other sorts of people who are really good at running something.

Sir Digby Jones20:51

And they're not often the same people. And I think I'm more in the first and the second, to be honest.

Presenter20:56

And you were only forty-three, so you went to KPMG, which is a bit bigger than Edmund. And from there, as we heard, you were headhunted for the CBI. I want to talk to you about that specifically, but let's have some more music.

Sir Digby Jones20:59

And it's a touch of the

Sir Digby Jones21:03

Yeah.

Sir Digby Jones21:06

Yes, when I was building up the team at Edge and the corporate team especially, there were some established firms in Birmingham, been around a long time. And so we delighted and revelled in taking the work off them really. And the greatest accolade was when somebody who you just acted against on a deal rang you up and said, no, you know what you just did against me, would you do it for me? And when we used to have a really great result and pull in a new client or we used to finish a big deal and put in a big fee, I used to take them all out, you see, and we'd have a bit of a celebration. And even when the firm said, oh, we're not paying for that, so I'll pay for it myself. And we always used to end up singing the song that we thought just epitomised what we were at the time, which no matter how conceited and arrogant it sounds, we were simply the best.

Speaker 221:50

What you say?

Speaker 221:54

Cheers and ball!

Speaker 221:59

Baby, I would drown my feet again.

Speaker 222:04

In your hearts is the star of every night and every day.

Speaker 222:13

In your eyes, I get lost, I get washed away.

Presenter22:18

Simply the best, Tina Turner. Digby Jones, you've certainly raised the profile of the CBI. You've travelled the world, you've networked, you've made your voice heard. But what would you say?

Presenter22:28

You've achieved for business. After all, you know, as you say repeatedly, and the government denies repeatedly, since it came to office it's imposed fifty new taxes on business.

Sir Digby Jones22:37

Firstly, I can point to one or two areas where government policy has been more favourable to business than it used to be. They've certainly helped small businesses with tax breaks. They've certainly upped the skills level in the workplace, partly by carrot, partly by stick. And those are down to us.

Presenter22:57

Yes, but they've got the minimum wage, you've got more health and safety regulation, you've got to increase maternity and paternity.

Sir Digby Jones22:59

More help

Presenter23:03

I mean

Sir Digby Jones23:04

And the point I'd say there is without us it would have been worse. So the level of the minimum wage is why it succeeds is because it's not too high. Well it would have been much higher if it hadn't been for the CBI. The second thing we've achieved is we've definitely taken it round the world. At the end of the day I can only be relevant to businesses and therefore they'll pay a subscription and pay my wages if they think I can make a difference to them where they operate. Now so often they're operating in America and China and India and they want someone to be there to campaign for them.

Presenter23:32

There's no doubt about that, you know, and you've got the Union Jack cuffling, you know.

Sir Digby Jones23:35

If Americans can put the Stars and Trip in their lapel, why can't I put Union Jacks on my cufflink?

Presenter23:36

If America

Presenter23:39

No doubt about that. But I mean I go back to you know, you have access to Downing Street, number ten, number eleven, you know, pretty frequently. And yet, as you predicted back in 2002, the burden of corporate taxation between then and now was going to increase by, what did you say, forty-seven billion pounds?

Sir Digby Jones23:55

Yeah.

Presenter23:56

And it has.

Sir Digby Jones23:57

Well it's yeah, it's an increase actually by now. We said 47 then and we were wrong. It's 55. And without doubt this

Presenter24:03

So, what does Gordon Brown say when you stand in number and say, look, look what you do?

Sir Digby Jones24:07

He says, and I think he's wrong, but he says, but the economy is growing, companies are doing well, so they can afford to do this. What really worries me is that they have never turned their eyes straight and honestly to the electorate and said, all of what we're doing costs more money. You should pay your fair share, because they vote and business doesn't. And if you turn round and say, I'm going to increase the tax rate for business, and Germany doesn't, or France doesn't, You've got to be pretty good at the other stuff transport, skilled labour, regulation, if you're going to keep ahead of the game.

Presenter24:47

There's pressure on the profit jungular, you would argue.

Sir Digby Jones24:49

Yes, the processor.

Presenter24:51

Give me your forecast then for for the future of business in say twenty years' time. I mean we know that India and China are developing business acumen. They don't have the kind of red tape and the kinds of pressures that we have.

Sir Digby Jones25:00

Mm-hmm.

Sir Digby Jones25:01

And the little costume.

Presenter25:02

Is the business landscape going to change dramatically, do you think? Do you think we are complacent about how it might change?

Sir Digby Jones25:08

I think Britain gets globalization more and better than America or France or Germany or Japan. But.

Sir Digby Jones25:17

If we don't stay ahead of the game, it's no good politician, no good Tony Blair or Gordon Brown sitting there and saying, oh, it's okay, we're doing number one on this, we're fine.

Presenter25:24

And are we in danger of nothing?

Sir Digby Jones25:25

Oh, we are in definitely in danger of being complacent, certainly, on tax rates, on regulation, on thinking it's going to be all right, on resting on our laurels. And it comes back to politicians, it comes back to teachers, I think it comes back to parents more than people ever say. It's how to equip people to compete in a globalized economy. And it is no use saying, Well, we won't want to have a globalized economy, thanks. We won't do China and India. Well, tough. The 21st century belongs to Asia, and we have a chance. You can either use it to advantage.

Sir Digby Jones25:57

or fight it and lose.

Sir Digby Jones26:00

Nick one number seven.

Sir Digby Jones26:01

I on my desert island I

Sir Digby Jones26:05

Would very much like to listen quite often to a song by Brian Adams called Everything I Do, I Do It For You.

Sir Digby Jones26:11

Uh because I think the words more than

Sir Digby Jones26:14

Many things in my life. Just sum up what motivates me. You're either going to do it a hundred and fifty percent and give it everything you've got, or don't turn up.

Sir Digby Jones26:23

Because I don't know any other way. I I've all my life, and whatever it's been, I've given it everything I've got, whether it's for a minute or an hour or a lifetime. And everything I do, I do it for you.

Speaker 226:36

I'm a kid all I'm a sacrifice

Speaker 226:43

Don't tell me, it's not worth fighting for.

Speaker 226:50

Can't help it, there's nothing I won't know.

Presenter27:03

Brian Adams, and everything I do, I do it for you. So you finish this summer, did be in in your job. You'll still only be fifty.

Sir Digby Jones27:07

Uh

Speaker 227:07

The date and

Presenter27:11

Yeah.

Presenter27:12

What are you going to do? I cannot see you lying down, obviously. What is it? And I don't want to know about all the I'm sure charitable jobs and members of boards you are all over the shop, but what you must want another big job. Yes, I think.

Speaker 127:15

Obviously,

Sir Digby Jones27:16

And I do

Sir Digby Jones27:23

Yes, I I what I'd like to do for a couple of years is do if Dad was alive, he'd say put a bit of wool on your back, lad.

Presenter27:30

But you will want a big job within a couple of years.

Sir Digby Jones27:32

Yeah, and in a couple of years, I think two to three years' time, I'll probably say, right, now let's look around another job where the pay isn't the point, it won't be well paid.

Speaker 227:39

What might it be?

Sir Digby Jones27:40

And if I could do something not party political, I do not want to go into into Democratic Party politics. I've seen it from outside for seven years. It's a dirty place to live. I bought from inside. But I would like to do something for my country. But after a couple of years.

Presenter27:59

After a couple of months,

Sir Digby Jones28:01

Well well, it's it's

Sir Digby Jones28:03

It's not honest in one way, is it? I think people join politics of all parties genuinely to make a difference as they see life. They all go in, I think, for very honest motives. And the whole system militates against intellectual honesty. I think we've got the most uncorrupt politicians and those who serve them in the world, actually. I've seen oh yes. I tell you, the British electorate are very lucky to have a civil service that's honest and to have politicians who are not corrupt. But I don't mean that when I say honest. I mean intellectually honest. That's the point. And I don't like that. And I'd last five minutes in it anyway, because I'm bound to say the wrong thing. I'm bound not to tie the party line and I'm bound to upset too many people. And so I think I can probably help both the country and also my beliefs more by assisting and advising and promoting and banging the drum than being inside a party political machine.

Presenter28:26

Generally speaking.

Sir Digby Jones28:57

Last record.

Sir Digby Jones28:59

I couldn't have done it all without Pat. She's been fabulous for me. And she's supported me throughout. She's probably the only person in my life I've never impressed. And she knows me all right. And at every turn of everything I've done, she's been by my side. And there's no way I could have done it without her. I have to say, I like to think that I've taken her to places both in life and geographically that probably she wouldn't have seen or experienced without me.

Presenter29:31

You made her a lady.

Sir Digby Jones29:32

We both have our faults and we both have our good bits, but the blend works, which means that if you said Sue, I can only have one, it would be this song. It's our song, it's the one that we play and uh listen to when we have those big moments of celebrations like anniversaries and big birthdays. And it is Bette Midler singing Wind Beneath My Wings, because that's what she is to me.

Speaker 229:55

Might have appeared to go unnoticed.

Speaker 230:03

But I've got it all here in my heart.

Sir Digby Jones30:03

Ah

Speaker 230:11

I want you to know I know the truth

Speaker 230:15

Of course I know you.

Speaker 230:19

I would be nothing without you

Presenter30:25

Bette Middler and the Wind Beneath My Wings. Okay, Digby Jones, what's your book? We give you the Bible and we give you the complete works of Shakespeare.

Sir Digby Jones30:33

There's a book by Niall Ferguson called Empire, How Britain Shaped the Modern World. And it is written as if Britain is a person, and it's written in the development of the United Kingdom, roughly from sort of when Elizabeth came to the throne in the sixteenth century, right up to the modern day. And I would sit on my desert island and I would read that and just be incredibly proud of being a Brit.

Presenter30:59

What about your luxury?

Sir Digby Jones31:01

My luxury, Sue, as long as I've got something that I can use to play this on, would be either a video or a pictorial book. But I would like constantly to be able to enjoy about a hundred different examples of excellence. And by excellence I mean Churchill's speech, I mean the speech Kennedy gave in Berlin, Martin Luther King's famous speech in Washington, Margot Fontaine at her very best.

Presenter31:28

This list could go on.

Sir Digby Jones31:29

Oh, always. And there'll be a hundred of them, you see. And so every day on my desert island I'd be coming out and saying, I think I'm going to rejoice in Redgrave's excellence today. And then tomorrow it might be I'm going to listen to Churchill's We'll Fight on the Beaches. And then the next day it might be I want to see how Chris Barnard did his first heart transplant. And just to enjoy and rejoice in the excellence of people.

Sir Digby Jones31:52

You see, I'm a born optimist, aren't I? So in that respect, if I could uh read about this wonderful country, if I could enjoy the excellence of human beings and listen to those eight songs, I have to tell you I'd be a very lucky lad.

Presenter32:07

Sir Digby Jones, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Sir Digby Jones32:10

My pleasure.

Speaker 132:18

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.