Frankie Dettori

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and six, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Castaway this week is a jockey. He's won more than two thousand races in his career, including most of the classics at home and abroad, and has been champion jockey three times. It's an achievement typical of a man whose professionalism and determination have seen him overcome a lot of difficulties to arrive where he is today. The son of a famous Italian jockey, he was brought up in Italy and then packed off to train in Newmarket at the age of fourteen. Alone and unable to speak English, he soon mastered his art and eighteen months later started to win races. That's what he's been doing ever since. And despite a certain reputation for laddishness, he's now settled into the role of Britain's little legend on horseback, rich, fit, and still bursting with energy. If you're a rider, he says, you've got to ride your madness out. He is Frankie DiTori. Or maybe you never ride your madness out, Frankie. Maybe you just go on riding and go on being mad, do you?

Frankie Dettori1:24

Well, you've got to be a little bit mad to do the job than we do. I think y any sensible person probably find it a bit scary, so uh I must say, yeah, you gotta have that little pinch of craziness in you.

Presenter1:35

And are you a different person when you're out there, you know, when you're riding to win? Is there a is there a different Frankie d'Atori?

Frankie Dettori1:40

I must say, yeah, I mean is um I had a couple of months off this year and uh I realize how different I am when I am actually racing and when I have time off. I I think it's the thrill of uh obviously riding, the competition

Speaker 41:50

The air.

Frankie Dettori1:55

And the excitement that you you just become very

Frankie Dettori1:59

uh alert, very aggressive, very competitive, you know, and uh

Presenter2:03

So how are you when you're not riding?

Frankie Dettori2:05

I'm pretty chilled out and relaxed.

Presenter2:09

You were not chilled out or relaxed on that afternoon in September nineteen ninety six at Ascot when you rode all seven winners. Frank is magnificent seven. Did you did you know that afternoon that there might be a chance? Had you got any inkling at all?

Frankie Dettori2:24

Absolutely no idea. I mean, it was a very big racing day. The Queen Elizabeth Stakes was the the big race and I w you know, basically I was focusing on trying to win that race. And uh I knew I had another couple of chances on the card.

Presenter2:38

But obviously a lot of punters thought you could because I mean the book is lost something like 15 million that afternoon. I mean the odds were something like 25,000 to 1 or something like that.

Frankie Dettori2:41

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori2:43

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori2:46

Absolutely, it was madness. And never in in a million years that I thought I was going to win the seventh race, uh, you know. And I was actually so relaxed about it, and I was j joking about it because the horse was slashed from a twelve to one shot in the morning to favourite.

Presenter3:02

This was Fuji Yama Quest.

Frankie Dettori3:03

And that's the same thing.

Presenter3:04

And and not a prepossessing horse. I mean

Frankie Dettori3:06

No, I mean it was Austin, he was out of form that year. Even myself, I could not see the horse win. And uh I remember the public were cheering me on and and I I was saying to myself, you know, I'm not gonna let this race spoil it. I've already equaled the record and that's for me is good enough, he's great. This horse really he cannot win. But I don't know, maybe.

Frankie Dettori3:29

Something happened and uh we we won.

Presenter3:32

There was a rumor, of course, wasn't there, that the other jockeys might have let it let it happen just'cause they wanted to see the seven go in a row and you to win make the record.

Frankie Dettori3:35

Let it let it happen just'cause

Frankie Dettori3:38

In a rail and you

Frankie Dettori3:40

Well, I actually I was there in first place and I can tell you what, they were trying like hell to beat me. They were so sick of seeing me winning every race that by the end of the day nobody spoke to me.

Presenter3:50

Indescribable feeling though, crossing that line.

Frankie Dettori3:52

It was. It was. I mean, I'll I'll be honest, I was exhausted because the the mental pressure.

Presenter3:57

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori3:58

of the day like that. By the time I won the seventh, I didn't even remember the first three. So it was really weird.

Presenter4:04

And it's a very happy story because tell me what happened to gangly old Fuji Yamakrist.

Frankie Dettori4:06

Do you want me to

Frankie Dettori4:09

The lad what used to look after him, he spotted him in a Welsh sale. What is not very glamorous, that they probably end up uh, you know In the knacker's yard. Egg, absolutely. And so I I rang the trainer and bought him back.

Frankie Dettori4:28

And uh he's a house bat really now, giving him a good life.

Presenter4:33

Tell me about your first record.

Frankie Dettori4:35

My first record, Ron and Keating Life is a Roller Coaster because uh it I think it represents my life and uh you know it's a song that uh it really catches you.

Presenter4:38

Because

Speaker 44:54

Wherever you go, tell me I'm gonna show

Speaker 45:01

But I love you.

Speaker 45:05

So don't write everything

Speaker 45:10

Life is a roller coaster just got

Presenter5:16

Ronan Keating and life is a roller coaster. What's the fastest horse you've ever ridden, Frankie?

Frankie Dettori5:21

Uh well the pen the best also I've ever written, it was also called Dubai Millennium.

Presenter5:26

What does best mean?

Frankie Dettori5:27

Best it was, uh, you know, like the fastest, the best feel that I got from a horse and uh

Frankie Dettori5:34

He he was his own person, you know, and uh if he decided to go one way, then uh it was no way he could change his

Presenter5:40

'Cause that's the secret, isn't it? When you're up top, the the horse has got to know who's in charge. But it's it's a f it's a fine dividing line, huh?

Frankie Dettori5:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Frankie Dettori5:43

But it's it's

Frankie Dettori5:46

That's right. Well, you know, you don't want to break their spirit and on the other end you don't want to

Presenter5:48

Mm.

Frankie Dettori5:51

uh go wherever they wanna go. So

Presenter5:53

But when we say fastest, I mean what kind of speed are we talking about here?

Frankie Dettori5:56

Well do they do about forty miles an hour

Presenter5:58

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori5:58

And uh we race, you know, within half an inch to each other.

Presenter6:02

So would you say it was the most dangerous sport in the world, do you think?

Frankie Dettori6:05

For fatal uh accident, yes, is definitely the most dangerous.

Presenter6:09

Fatal accident.

Frankie Dettori6:09

Yeah, we probably have one one a year. When you do have a fall, unfortunately, we haven't got a cage to protect us, you know, so and uh there's always horses behind you that uh the horses in general try to avoid you.

Presenter6:16

Um

Presenter6:21

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori6:21

But because you race that tight and that close together, then sometimes they can't and you get trampled on'em.

Presenter6:26

That's why we see you obviously roll into a tiny hole. You see, and try to roll up.

Frankie Dettori6:28

And yeah.

Frankie Dettori6:30

Try to make yourself a small object as possible so you don't get kicked.

Presenter6:33

But that must be terrifying when you're actually rolled up in that book, because you know that you could have this.

Frankie Dettori6:39

Yeah. I was I was in Linfield when when little Sans Wood fell and uh the force of his his fall he made him kind of bounce and the horse behind him hit him, you know, really l like like a buffalo.

Speaker 46:53

Hmm.

Frankie Dettori6:53

Head on.

Frankie Dettori6:55

And then and then I knew that it was serious, you know, and it was it was pronounced that

Frankie Dettori7:00

Ten minutes later, really, just internal injuries, just it for the the brutal force of speed and

Speaker 27:00

Really do it.

Frankie Dettori7:05

and uh the size of the animal that um unfortunately he died.

Frankie Dettori7:11

You know, you do think about it, but, you know, uh when you're in the race the adrenaline takes over and you carry on really.

Presenter7:18

But that's why, isn't it? Jock is a you know, as you said earlier on, you're quite aggressive when you're when you're out there. I suppose all that banter and all that kind of knocking around with each other, joshing and so on, that's because you're all aware of pl the danger you're about to do.

Frankie Dettori7:22

Dwayne.

Frankie Dettori7:28

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori7:30

I mean many people can say that every day when they go to work they look round and it's the ambulance is actually following you all day long, you know?

Presenter7:40

But that's the hook as well, isn't it?

Frankie Dettori7:42

Yeah, probably. And uh the day that you start to think about it is the day you have to retire, really. So you just have to go out there and do it. We shall talk about retirement later.

Presenter7:52

Uh Uh

Frankie Dettori7:52

Uh

Presenter7:52

If

Frankie Dettori7:52

Bye.

Presenter7:52

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori7:53

A C D C Back in Black

Frankie Dettori7:56

I picked this because I think I was I can't remember, I was ten. My sister, well she's a little bit older than me, she bought me the the you know, one of the workmen that

Frankie Dettori8:06

In those days it was like uh you know, it was like uh an unbelievable things to have this thing round your head and you can carry it around. It wasn't a ghetto blaster, it was a portable thing, cool, part of growing up and that's rapid distracting.

Presenter8:47

That was A C D C and back in black. Your father w thirteen times he was Italian champion just, wasn't he? Um but he was a hard man, Frankie. I mean life was not easy, was it, when you were little?

Frankie Dettori8:57

You know what?

Frankie Dettori8:59

I must say he

Frankie Dettori9:01

You know,

Frankie Dettori9:03

I I spoke to him many a times and he, you know, he always says to me, Look, nobody gave me a book to be a parent and, you know, I I did what I think what I thought best at the time. He he also had a very, very hard upbringing and

Frankie Dettori9:16

I didn't realize that my dad was so hard until I met everybody else. I mean, I thought, you know, all dads were like that.

Presenter9:23

Hmm.

Frankie Dettori9:23

You know, it was old fashioned.

Presenter9:26

Tough.

Frankie Dettori9:26

Hey what's up, yeah?

Presenter9:26

I mean, I read that he at one point when you and your sister lived with him, he he made her kneel on a tray of salt or something.

Frankie Dettori9:33

Yeah, I mean it was uh yeah, it was very hard, you know, and um

Presenter9:38

But he was pretty dismissive of you for a long time, wasn't he?

Frankie Dettori9:41

Yes. I mean, I must say I was a

Frankie Dettori9:43

You know, I wasn't exactly

Frankie Dettori9:45

great from the beginning, you know, I only became what I am now by

Frankie Dettori9:50

uh hard work and tried to learn from the best really but you know I was uh I was a very average rider when I started.

Presenter9:52

Yeah.

Presenter9:57

And your mother was a a circus performer. What did she do in the circus?

Frankie Dettori10:00

Yeah. Well, my mum come from a circus family.

Frankie Dettori10:03

And uh basically she was uh sixteen and working in the circus, doing all sorts, you know, trapeze artists and performing with other things. She was very supple, uh used to

Speaker 210:05

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori10:13

Put our head between her legs and how do you call it? Um

Presenter10:15

Sort of accurate contortions.

Frankie Dettori10:17

Contortionist, yes. All that carry on.

Presenter10:17

Yeah.

Presenter10:20

But that's obviously where you get your your balance and your graze, which is all part of your natural two horses.

Frankie Dettori10:22

Probably. She used to spend two horses, two horses together. Yeah.

Frankie Dettori10:27

So, yes, I mean, a lot of uh my agility probably come from from my mum's side.

Presenter10:32

But their marriage broke up early on. You and your sister eventually went to live with your dad, didn't get treated too well. Your sister ran away, ran back to mum.

Frankie Dettori10:34

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori10:37

It didn't get

Frankie Dettori10:40

Landbach.

Presenter10:41

Left you.

Frankie Dettori10:42

Yeah.

Presenter10:42

Poor little Frank, he aged.

Frankie Dettori10:44

Six. Eight. Maybe s yeah, maybe six uh r around that, I think. Yeah. And I remember really vividly because my dad never picked me up from school, never took me there or picked me up.

Presenter10:48

Yeah.

Speaker 410:48

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori10:55

And uh so I was I was I was a shock to see him outside my school with this uh

Frankie Dettori11:00

a horse box and we picked me up and we drove to a field and it was these three beautiful ponies and he asked me to pick one. And that's where the love of horses came, because I picked this beautiful Palomino pony.

Frankie Dettori11:12

And that was it. That was love at first sight.

Presenter11:13

How the f

Presenter11:14

It's also when your dad decided to pay you a bit more attention, perhaps.

Frankie Dettori11:17

Yeah, probably, yes, you know, because obviously lost one child and didn't want me to follow suit.

Frankie Dettori11:23

Echo number three. Yeah.

Frankie Dettori11:25

A record number three Madonna Into the Groove um amazing song then and uh even when I listen to it now I've I'm a big admire of Madonna, I think uh it's an amazing song.

Speaker 411:39

I don't get it.

Speaker 411:41

The field is free.

Speaker 411:44

I lock the doors where no one else can see

Speaker 411:51

Tonight I wanna dance with someone

Speaker 411:56

Into the groove boy, you gotta prove your love to me.

Presenter12:03

Madonna and Into the Groove. They say you have phenomenal hands, Frankie. Like a concert pianist's hands, John Gosden, the trainer, says. I've got bigger.

Speaker 412:08

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori12:08

Uh

Frankie Dettori12:13

And

Presenter12:14

Oh, they're much bigger than your, but how tall are you?

Frankie Dettori12:16

I'm five four.

Presenter12:17

Yeah. And how what's your r racing weight?

Frankie Dettori12:18

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori12:20

A A seven. Hey.

Frankie Dettori12:22

I'm not eight-seven now, I've had a few pastors lately.

Presenter12:24

But you can get it down again quickly.

Frankie Dettori12:27

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter12:28

Do you still make yourself sick before a race to get the weight down?

Frankie Dettori12:31

No, no, I try not to, no, because it's very unhealthy for you. But I tried all sorts of remedies. And this, uh i that's what you do when you're a jockey. I mean, you know, I try to take laxatives or I try P pills.

Presenter12:43

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori12:44

Vomiting, sweating, everything.

Presenter12:45

Diametric.

Presenter12:47

But your father packed you off age fourteen to to Newmarket. You couldn't speak a word of English.

Frankie Dettori12:49

Injured.

Frankie Dettori12:52

I've still not mastered the language yet, but obviously a lot better than then. I think I came to England with uh uh uh uh hello and goodbye kind of uh words.

Presenter13:03

And it was a lonely business. I mean,

Frankie Dettori13:04

He was very hard. He talked about fourteen years old.

Frankie Dettori13:09

Landing in another country, uh I mean, the family I stayed with really nice. And kind of sign language to me the first day I arrived that dinner was a six, you know, with with fingers.

Frankie Dettori13:21

And uh they were trying to be nice and I was offered uh kind of tin ravioli or Heinz ravioli, whatever there was. And they you know, they they thought, Well, we're gonna try to make him feel welcome and you couldn't even give it to the dogs in Italy, that kind of stuff, and I must say I didn't eat a thing of it and uh so that wasn't the perfect start.

Presenter13:38

And what about the other stable lads? Because you were sent to this old colleague of your father's, the trainer Maruka Kumani.

Frankie Dettori13:43

And the

Presenter13:45

Um what about the lads there? Did they make it easy or was it rough their job?

Frankie Dettori13:48

Ah, it was rough, yeah, of course. I got a few digs and uh, you know, in the ribs and I got uh stripped off naked a few times. The usual carry-on.

Presenter13:58

The initiation.

Frankie Dettori13:58

Yeah, you know, come to the real worlds and, you know, you know how invincible like you think you are.

Presenter14:03

And you made a name for yourself down the betting shop, I gather.

Frankie Dettori14:06

I did, yes.

Presenter14:07

Okay, became a bit of a gambler holic, as I said. Yes.

Frankie Dettori14:09

Yes, and it was easier for me to get in betting shops because in Newmarket everybody is the same size. We all five foot.

Frankie Dettori14:16

So I never had the questions like, you can't come here your son because you're not 18, you know. So I got away with it. What was the biggest win you had?

Presenter14:22

What was the biggest

Presenter14:23

Pat

Frankie Dettori14:24

The biggest sweet night I remember at Becked West Tip.

Frankie Dettori14:27

Grand National.

Frankie Dettori14:30

Richard the Woody's father, old George, myself and him, you know, we were a bit of an item because nobody wanted to speak to old George because he was too old and nobody could speak to me because, you know, they couldn't yeah, I couldn't understand them. So myself and George used to sit in the tack room having sandwiches for breakfast and uh you know, like a wise old man, he said to me, My son's gonna win the national this year and I believed him. I believed him. So I used to go every weekend to place my five pound on it.

Frankie Dettori14:58

Well the odds were still good. Oh, the it was thirty three to one, twenty to one and

Presenter14:58

Well the odds

Frankie Dettori15:03

And I think I won short of two thousand pounds and I was only about fifteen. I had two thousand pounds, I didn't know what to do with that. What did you do with it? I bought a moped, I bought my landlady a washing machine and a few things.

Presenter15:16

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori15:16

I had a good time with it.

Presenter15:18

Record number four.

Frankie Dettori15:21

Well I think everybody's got must have a Bob Marley C D in their house. So I picked Free Little Birds because it's um very jolly songs and I like it.

Speaker 415:33

There it is.

Speaker 415:35

This is my message to you.

Speaker 415:40

Then you know what

Speaker 415:43

Honestly.

Speaker 415:47

Every little thing is gonna be alright.

Speaker 415:53

Don't worry.

Speaker 415:56

I'm gonna say

Speaker 416:00

Every

Presenter16:04

That was Bob Marley and the Three Little Birds.

Frankie Dettori16:06

Yes, actually I forgot to tell you, the reason I chose this song is because it reminds me this is when I started courting my wife, Catherine.

Presenter16:13

I shape

Presenter16:14

So you are running pretty wild. Here we are in Newmarket, you know, running pretty off the leash, huh?

Frankie Dettori16:19

I was I was free. I was free as a bir free little birds, I must say. And and then I was up to no all sorts, basically, and I was, you know, tried to get into pubs and nightclubs and everything. You know, tried to grow up really.

Presenter16:33

But you became a jockey. Because in Italy you can become professional at fifteen and a half because you so you went back there, started running your first races and you you ended up

Frankie Dettori16:37

That's right.

Presenter16:42

You know, think about the second race you ran, racing with your father and your cousin and an uncle, huh?

Frankie Dettori16:46

This right and it was eight runners and four of us were dittoris. And it's pretty amazing feat, really. And it was really, really funny because myself and my father were riding for the same stables. It was only my second race in my life, really green as grass. And I remember being in front. I had half my eyes closed and I was pushing like and then one came by me.

Frankie Dettori17:10

And then my father went on and he won the race and I finished third. That was all right? I thought it was good. So I came back in and everybody was laughing at me.

Presenter17:13

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori17:18

I mean, they weren't just laughing, they were in hysterics. And it wasn't until I came back to the jockeys' room, then I was watching the replay, then I realized my father was actually hitting my horse to try to make it go fast. You're allowed to do that? No, he's not allowed to do it. Of course not. And I remember we were called in front of the stewards, and I remember saying to my father, Look, I know he's your son, but you can't ride his horse for him.

Presenter17:43

But

Speaker 417:43

Switch

Presenter17:43

Uh

Frankie Dettori17:43

That was

Presenter17:43

That was pretty embarrassing, you know.

Presenter17:45

So your career took off after that. I mean, you were champion apprentice in eighty nine, you got seventy-five winners, so you were into then went into the big time. You got a century, you got the hundred the following year, didn't you? You beat Lester Piggotts. By a couple of more

Frankie Dettori17:55

I think yeah.

Frankie Dettori17:58

By a couple of months, yeah. I mean, I was I've I I think I'm the youngest teenager to win hundred races.

Presenter18:03

But a lot of the horses you ride, presumably over the years you haven't ridden before. They become new to them and you've got to establish a relationship like that in a moment.

Frankie Dettori18:11

Absolutely. I mean, you know, to to really analyze that, we are kind of psychiatrist of horses, you know, because we have to really understand what's going through their mind to make sure that they play the game with us, you know, so we have to really become a bond together. And every horse is different, like a human being, and you have to have every key for every character to make sure that uh you are an item and uh

Frankie Dettori18:32

That way you can win races.

Presenter18:35

Picker number five.

Frankie Dettori18:36

Record number five is uh Amazing Grace. It's a song that every time I hear it makes me cry. And it was played to me by Ronnie Wood at my wedding, and up to this day it was an amazing day.

Presenter19:41

That was Amazing Grace played by the combined band of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards. This is your ambition in life, Frankie.

Frankie Dettori19:47

Yeah, my I mean, I'm not musician whatsoever, but if I have to learn one instrument, it'd be the backpipe and be able to play Amazing Grace on a backpipe. And wouldn't it be some party trick? Honey, get the backpipes out, we got some friends round. I'm gonna do my best. And actually for I think for one of my birthday Christmas, she bought me a lesson.

Presenter20:07

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori20:07

That's fine!

Presenter20:07

Ba

Frankie Dettori20:07

I'm not sure.

Presenter20:07

Lesson

Frankie Dettori20:08

Yes.

Frankie Dettori20:09

And uh I never managed to do it. Maybe I'm too afraid. It looks a bit complicated.

Presenter20:16

Tell me about nineteen ninety two, because uh things all went a bit pear-shaped then, didn't they? A lot pear-shaped. I I mean you di you said you said you were a jack the lad. I mean you were really enjoying

Frankie Dettori20:20

Lot.

Presenter20:26

all the things that be

Frankie Dettori20:28

Being a top jockey. I thought I was invincible. I had success, I had money. All the top.

Presenter20:28

Yeah.

Presenter20:30

You know?

Presenter20:33

All the toys, all the girls.

Frankie Dettori20:34

All the toys, all the girls. I didn't have any parents to tell me what to do. I was basically away with the fairies, you know.

Presenter20:41

Yeah, and then you went to the cup final.

Frankie Dettori20:44

Went to the Calf final, went to see Arsenal. Uh I painted my face.

Frankie Dettori20:48

Go extremely drunk.

Frankie Dettori20:50

End up in a nightclub in London.

Frankie Dettori20:53

Uh both some drugs.

Frankie Dettori20:55

Did some?

Frankie Dettori20:56

Got caught with it by the police, got arrested.

Presenter20:59

This is cocaine you've got in your pocket.

Frankie Dettori21:01

Yeah, and you know, realize then what I've done, you know, cried.

Frankie Dettori21:07

And uh I was lucky enough for me, I the amount of cocaine that I had on me was so small that I go away with a caution.

Speaker 421:13

Hmm.

Frankie Dettori21:14

But it was the turning point, basically, made me realize that I wasn't invincible.

Frankie Dettori21:19

Because you

Presenter21:19

Because you lost so much in that moment, did you? Not only were you all over the the newspaper

Frankie Dettori21:20

I don't know.

Frankie Dettori21:23

But the thing I've lost basically I lost the job in Kumani because I I I was going to go to Hong Kong.

Presenter21:23

That's right.

Presenter21:30

And you'd been with Kumani ever since you were.

Frankie Dettori21:32

Yeah, I was here. I was with him eight years and uh I was without anything. And I was grateful to my parents who came.

Presenter21:33

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori21:39

to England and uh tried to put me back on the straight narrow really.

Presenter21:43

This is your dad and your stepmother.

Frankie Dettori21:44

Yeah.

Presenter21:45

Yeah. But this was the turning point because then you went out, didn't you, to stay with them and you really worked hard on it.

Frankie Dettori21:51

I did, yes. You know, then I I refocused myself, you know, and I realized now I want to be champion and I want to be remembered not for the wrong things I do, I want to remember for something good that I can do.

Presenter22:02

I mean, it's almost as if you weren't really focussing before entirely on the racing. It's sort of what you did for a living, but you weren't focussed tightly enough, were you?

Frankie Dettori22:03

I

Frankie Dettori22:06

Yeah, you can

Speaker 422:07

Uh

Frankie Dettori22:07

Uh Uh

Frankie Dettori22:08

You won.

Frankie Dettori22:10

Absolutely, yes. I was just playing at it really.

Presenter22:13

So tell me about the regime when you decided this is the moment I'm going to change.

Frankie Dettori22:17

Uh my father's got a house in Morocco, so I

Frankie Dettori22:21

locked myself in there for two weeks and um so then I concentrated on, you know, getting really light so I could start the season in my ultimate minimum weight. And I I got down to a stone that uh it was probably too light.

Presenter22:36

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori22:36

And you shaved your head. And I shaved my head, and you know, I had all that heavy hair you carry around. I was, you know, it was.

Presenter22:37

When you shave.

Presenter22:38

And I s

Frankie Dettori22:44

I was determined and I I really believed I could do I really I had 100% of myself that I could do it.

Speaker 422:49

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori22:50

You know, and everything came to fruition, then I was champion that year and the year after.

Presenter22:54

And the year after? Twenty-one years old and twenty-two years old, and you turn the corner.

Frankie Dettori22:58

And that was the actually it's funny enough, and it was the same time that

Frankie Dettori23:01

M my wife came along as well, so I had two great things at once.

Frankie Dettori23:07

Equal numbers.

Presenter23:07

Thanks.

Frankie Dettori23:08

Regular number six is Simply Red Fairgrounds. One of my favorite tunes reminds me of Dubai. That's where I first um met Michael Fucknor what was lead singer or Simply Red.

Presenter23:20

'Cause you ride for Shake Mm. Yeah.

Frankie Dettori23:21

Ride for Shake Mah. Yeah, I ride for Shake Mohammed. I spend a lot of time in Dubai and I extremely love it. That's why I chose this track. It reminds me of Dubai.

Speaker 423:29

Make sure you like the little ground we don't bump

Speaker 423:36

And I love the thought of coming home to you.

Speaker 423:41

Even if I know we can take it

Speaker 423:44

Yes, I love the thought of giving all to you. Just a little ray of light shining.

Presenter23:55

Simply Red and Fairground. Frankie Dotori, the other major turning point in your life is one again an an event we all remember when your small aeroplane crashed taking off from Newmarket about five years ago now, wasn't it?

Frankie Dettori24:07

That's right, it was uh

Frankie Dettori24:09

First of June 2000.

Presenter24:11

Never to be forgotten. You and uh your fellow jockey Ray Cochrane on board.

Frankie Dettori24:15

Yeah we survived.

Presenter24:16

Yeah, I think it's a good idea.

Frankie Dettori24:17

And unfortunately I pilot it.

Frankie Dettori24:19

Patrick, he unfortunately lost his life. Did you think you were gonna die then? I mean, you must have done. Oh, yes, without a doubt. I mean, when the plane was going down I mean, actually the plane didn't go up that high, but high enough, you know, and you're going at hundred and fifty mile an hour in the flimsy plane, so when you're gonna hit the ground you're gonna

Speaker 424:37

Hmm.

Frankie Dettori24:38

Smash and die, Radiant.

Frankie Dettori24:41

Luckily we clicked the bank.

Frankie Dettori24:43

With the one of the wings, and it probably softened the impact, and that's what probably saved us.

Presenter24:46

Yeah.

Speaker 224:46

Uh

Frankie Dettori24:48

You holding on to your seat, like you know

Frankie Dettori24:52

You wanna try to get inside it. You can hear the horrible crescendo noise of the engines. And it's awful feeling. You can see the engine on fire.

Frankie Dettori25:02

You know, and

Frankie Dettori25:03

I turned round to Ray and I swear I swore and I said, We're going to die and uh and then massive impact with the ground and

Frankie Dettori25:13

Basically

Frankie Dettori25:14

You know, w we must roll two or three times.

Frankie Dettori25:17

Then the plane came to a halt and I don't know if it was concussed or not, but I had this kind of um

Frankie Dettori25:24

under an eighty vision, then I could see everything, but I couldn't focus on any you know, I could see the two engines on fire, I could see Patrick the pilot with his head down the dashboard, what he looked dead.

Frankie Dettori25:37

But I didn't know I ju was I was trying to asking myself, Am I on the other side? You know, is this after life or I I just couldn't do any I couldn't move, I couldn't focus and and then all of a sudden Ray started screaming, Get out, get out because we're full of fuel.

Frankie Dettori25:54

So I went for the door because I was closest to the door and the door was like all crumbled and squashed. You couldn't even

Frankie Dettori26:02

It didn't resemble trouble, we were basically locked in there.

Frankie Dettori26:06

And thank God that the luggage uh door the little luggage door behind the the the door itself well, you can only open from the outside. W with impact, he opened. So there was that way out.

Frankie Dettori26:19

So only then I realized that I broke my leg, so I couldn't really move very fast, so I I shoved my half of my mudd through it and Ray gave me a good kick up the backside and pushed me out.

Speaker 426:28

Yeah.

Frankie Dettori26:29

And Ray got out and he just grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and he dragged me twenty, thirty yards away because he knew it was going to explode. So by the time he went back to try to get the pilot out,

Frankie Dettori26:40

Uh then the whole thing exploded and just became a big fireball. And I could see Ray took his jacket off and he was trying to beat the flames down.

Frankie Dettori26:50

With his jacket, I mean this is a ball of fire and he b and he got three degrees burn in his face and hands.

Presenter26:55

He got a medal for bravery and he was a little bit more.

Frankie Dettori26:56

Yeah, he was trying to basically go out there and try to get the body of the Palae out.

Presenter27:00

Hmm.

Frankie Dettori27:00

You know, the Re I remember Ray he really lost it.

Frankie Dettori27:04

He was going absolutely mad, and he was beating the ground and kicking himself, he was screaming

Frankie Dettori27:10

It was awful to see, you know, and

Frankie Dettori27:12

I had the mobile in my pocket, so I gave it to Ray and he recalled, obviously, nine nine nine.

Frankie Dettori27:18

ambulances and everything.

Presenter27:19

But it changed your life.

Frankie Dettori27:21

I mean he absolutely scared the hell out of me. I mean we cheated death really. You know, we should have been dead and we are alive, so

Frankie Dettori27:29

Yeah.

Presenter27:29

But how how did things change after that? You stopped racing, so you certainly stopped traveling. Yeah, I did. Yeah, I mean I

Frankie Dettori27:33

Yeah, I did. Yeah, I mean, for for a split second I I was thinking of retiring, I'll be honest with you, because I thought, well, the hello, this why, you know, whether you know and I ju and we just had the uh a young boy, Leo, was was was our first son, so

Frankie Dettori27:47

I'll be honest with you, I think it took me three years to get over it.

Presenter27:50

Hmm.

Presenter27:51

Because something changed. You you were definitely slowing down and you were doing a question of sport and you presented top of the pops and all these things, doing much more television. And then suddenly something changed and you got back to racing again. What what was the trigger for that?

Frankie Dettori27:54

Yeah, giving it.

Frankie Dettori28:04

Well, the trigger was that I didn't know if I wanted to be a jockey or a family man. I didn't know.

Frankie Dettori28:09

Uh and I was doing neither good.

Frankie Dettori28:12

And the the the thing was I did two years of question of sport, well I extremely enjoyed. And one day on the panel I had this uh great robbie player called Thomas Castagnier and he's French, and it was really nice. And this is pre-show, he's just about to come on, and he said to me, Oh, Frankie, how long have you been retired?

Frankie Dettori28:29

And only dan it dawned to miss as well.

Frankie Dettori28:32

People think they're not do this for a job. Actually, my job is a jockey. So I decided right, I'm gonna give it up and want to be champion again.

Presenter28:40

Anywhere.

Frankie Dettori28:41

I was.

Presenter28:42

Terrific.

Presenter28:43

Record number seven.

Frankie Dettori28:44

Record number seven, Robbie Williams and Phil. I love the song and even my son Leo sings it. That's why I chose this. It reminds me of my family.

Speaker 429:00

But I live there.

Speaker 429:04

Cause I got too much life

Speaker 429:07

Running through my veins

Speaker 429:09

Going to wave

Speaker 429:14

And I need to feel real love and love it.

Speaker 429:24

Can I get

Presenter29:27

Robbie Williams and Theale. So you've got five children now, Frankie. Two sons, three daughters. Um any of them going to be jockeys?

Frankie Dettori29:35

Uh I don't know. I don't know. I mean all the girls.

Presenter29:37

Would you like them to is really a little bit more?

Frankie Dettori29:38

I don't. I'll be honest with you. I would not like them to be jockeys. But if they want to do it, I will encourage'em.

Presenter29:45

But you have, I mean, done so well out of it, as you say, I mean.

Frankie Dettori29:47

Yeah, yeah, you can't do it.

Presenter29:48

Yeah.

Presenter29:49

You can't. Lovely house. You've got a steam room, a swimming pool, an argument. I got everything on the road. Nanny's in uniforms, I read.

Frankie Dettori29:54

Nan is in

Presenter29:56

Yeah, beautiful high wheel prems, all the trappings.

Frankie Dettori30:00

All the trap end, you're right.

Presenter30:01

Food named after you, scents named after you, own restaurants, you know.

Frankie Dettori30:05

Okay.

Presenter30:06

What does your father think of you now? He must you know, he must brim with

Frankie Dettori30:09

Madada

Presenter30:10

Right.

Frankie Dettori30:11

You know, me and my father had a bit of a conflict. We didn't speak to each other for two or three years. And the plane crash really was what broke the ice and we, you know, we came to s terms that life was too short. Let's you know, let's not. And I have a fantastic relationship with my dad now.

Presenter30:22

Yeah.

Presenter30:25

But he must be very proud of you. I mean, this was a boy that he, you know, did neglect.

Frankie Dettori30:29

Yeah, I mean, but it was it was his vision really, to send me to England, to, you know, the reins in the well, to send me to America. So, uh, you know, obviously he's very proud because he was a big influence and big part of what I've did, you know, and if it wasn't for his vision, then

Frankie Dettori30:46

I wouldn't have been where I am now.

Frankie Dettori30:50

Well, I'm thirty five soon. I would say because I love the job so much and as long as I keep healthy, I think another ten years.

Presenter30:59

Till forty-five. Of course, Lester Piggott went on till fifty and then he came back again at fifty-five please.

Frankie Dettori31:02

Then you came back again.

Frankie Dettori31:04

He means a ru a rule of his own. See, Lester Pinkard is Lester Pinkard. You can't compare him to anybody else.

Presenter31:10

So you're going to retire at forty five and do something else?

Frankie Dettori31:12

Yeah, I want to do something else.

Presenter31:14

I well play the bagpipes and

Frankie Dettori31:16

And get get in the kitchen in the restaurant. I don't know. Absolutely got no idea.

Presenter31:19

I love it.

Presenter31:22

But there is a race you still have to win, is there not?

Frankie Dettori31:27

I get I get reminded every day. Do I have to say it?

Presenter31:27

Okay, I I

Presenter31:29

Do I have to say it?

Frankie Dettori31:30

The Epsom Derby.

Presenter31:32

Yeah, never done it. How many times have you run it?

Frankie Dettori31:33

How many times have you read

Frankie Dettori31:35

Thirteen, fourteen, fourteen times.

Presenter31:36

Four.

Frankie Dettori31:38

It took so good on Richard till he was 49 to win us and he was one of our greatest jockeys ever.

Presenter31:43

So will you retire if you haven't won the derby?

Frankie Dettori31:45

Well, at some stage I left to retire, but you know, it's one thing that is missing on my C V. I want everything else in the world and it'd be nice to say, well, I've done everything, but right now I haven't.

Frankie Dettori31:59

Number eight.

Frankie Dettori32:01

Number eight, uh I chose this crazy song because every day I spend two hours in the gym to keep my weight down. This tune is called Insonia, played by Faithless.

Presenter32:12

or insomnia.

Frankie Dettori32:13

In some of the other things.

Presenter32:14

No insong.

Frankie Dettori32:15

But you say a lot better than I do.

Speaker 432:20

Yeah. Sleep, sleep, sleep.

Speaker 432:35

And don't be any more, I'll say.

Speaker 432:40

That's true.

Presenter32:45

That's Faithless and Insomnia. Now, if you could only choose one of those eight records, Frankie, which one would you choose?

Frankie Dettori32:52

What's the favourite? Well, the one what makes my art cry is Amazing Grace.

Frankie Dettori32:57

And it'll always be like that.

Presenter32:59

and a book we can give you, as well as the Bible and Shakespeare we give you.

Frankie Dettori33:03

Well, it's a bit ironic, but uh the book I like to take

Frankie Dettori33:08

is The History of the Derby.

Frankie Dettori33:11

Because I never won it, so maybe they'll give me a few tips how to win it.

Presenter33:15

And your luxury. What would you like?

Frankie Dettori33:17

Luxury, um I love my wine, so a lifetime supply of Pinogrigio.

Frankie Dettori33:24

Just to make it a bit more fun.

Presenter33:26

Frankie Dottore, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island is.

Frankie Dettori33:29

Thank for having me.

Speaker 233:37

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.