Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews

Presenter0:00

This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition of Desert Island Discs. The presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:08

From your experience, are there any major reforms that you think are necessary in the Church of England?

Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews0:14

Oh yes.

Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews0:16

I think there have been many.

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Now good reforms

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For example, the uh n church assembly

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has done a great deal of very good work.

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But I think it's still

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too cumbersome and they

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The fact that uh

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The convocation goes on side by side.

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with the uh church assembly.

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uh means that uh a good deal of work seems to be done more than once.

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But on the whole I think there's been a a great good deal of progress.

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Uh on the whole, I've always been theoretically

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in favour of disestablishing the church.

Presenter1:03

How do you think that is going to help the church?

Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews1:05

Uh well, I'm not quite sure that it will h help anybody, but it doesn't seem to me to be realistic.

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To uh

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They say that a church with

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uh to which so a small a proportion of the

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population uh go with any regularity for worship.

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To call that the National Church seems to me

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um rather unrealistic.

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And unrealistic things I think are very uh nearly always

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There

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Anuses.

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It might help the church, I think.

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Uh if uh

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It would just establish because it would

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Facilitate

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The development of the ecum ecumenical movement.

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Towards Christian Reunion.

Presenter2:01

You mentioned the small percentage of the population who go to church. These congregations are still falling and confirmations are falling. Yet there is an enormous interest, popular interest, in religion and theology. Doesn't this mean that the church is failing to interpret the Christian message in terms of life today?

Presenter2:22

I'm afraid it does mean that.

Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews2:24

Yeah.

Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews2:25

Uh but uh it's it's very easy to say that.

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but not so easy to know what the answer is.

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Uh how is the church

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So to reform its presentation of the Gospel

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has to uh make it uh

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Appealing.

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And real having real value indeed.

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Minds of the contemporary

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Uh citizens.

Presenter2:55

Do you think that the Church clings to rituals and myths and inessentials that obscure the the basic facts and theories of Christianity?

Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews3:03

Well, no doubt it does.

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But I wouldn't uh like to speak uh slightly.

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either of rituals or of myths. I think uh both are v very important elements in any religion.

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Her religion is not.

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A philosophy, though it's closely connected with philosophy.

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It's a worship.

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and alive.

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But certainly it is true that

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Uh a uh criticism, a re

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Furbishing of

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The uh

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ritual of worship, perhaps.

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And uh

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The mythology.

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Most certainly.

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That's it.

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To change the symbols is a

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A very difficult matter.

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People don't often see

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Shepherds

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I suppose the people live in towns?

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Find the shepherd very rare.

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At peace.

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Uh of the um

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Environment

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And yet how are we going to find a substitute for the Good Shepherd?

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We're going to call him the Good Sharp Steward.

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Well, that might be a

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It might

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being a fairly near the mark.

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But would it have anything could it ever have the kind of appeal

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that the shepherd has.

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How are you going to?

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Turn now.

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A deeply poetical

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And uh

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Rural and agricultural imagery.

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into a matter of fact

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A modern

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unimaginative and uh deeply depressing.

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Uh imagery.

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I don't think it can be done.

Presenter5:11

You have advocated that the Church should conduct its own psychical researches. Have you yourself had any experience of the supernatural?

Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews5:21

Nothing that I would really be quite certain was uh supernatural.

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I have had uh experiences which seem to me to

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Point uh that way.

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And I've uh

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known people who've had experiences.

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that uh certainly seem to be

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Explicable

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Uh only

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By the most far-fetched causes.

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If you rule r uh rule out the supernatural.

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But uh and I think that it's very important that the church

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should not condemn

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uh research and uh study.

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On the psychical side.

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but equally important that it should not

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uh be uh led away by

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M

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Uncriticised

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Allegations of supernatural events.

Presenter6:31

Going off a bit at a tangent, do you think it right that the clergy should give a lead in politics? For example, uh to take one example, you've condemned unilateralism, uh one of your canons advocates it and to say the least, this could be confusing for the church goer.

Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews6:46

Well, confusing if the Chetka is going to

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Now take his ministers.

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as a a kind of political authority.

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Not confusing if he just

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recognizes that their citizens

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Just like himself.

Presenter7:05

You think it's it's another way in which Christianity can can touch man in in all fields.

Very Reverend Dr W R Matthews7:10

Well, I certainly think that if Christianity

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Is the answer to the question how to live?

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It must have something to say about the political side.

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of human existence.

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I would uh I deprecate, of course, and I'm sure Canon Collins would.

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Are using the

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uh the church for

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Propaganda for

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any kind of party politics. But I think it is a part of the pastoral duty of the Church to point out that Christian principles

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have a direct bearing upon

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The manor

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or they are living together in society.