Betsy Blair

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and five, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My Castaway this week is an actress. Born in New Jersey eighty two years ago, her life changed dramatically when, at the age of seventeen, she married a New York nightclub choreographer. His name was Gene Kelly. Throughout the nineteen forties and early fifties, they led a merry dance in Hollywood. In nineteen fifty six, she landed her most famous role playing opposite Ernest Borgnine in the Oscar winning film Marty.

Presenter0:54

Her marriage to Kelly broke up, and, always something of a free spirit, she took herself off to Paris, where she appeared in rather different sorts of films being made by directors such as Antonione.

Presenter1:04

She married again, this time to the British film director Carol Rice, and together they moved to North London, where she's lived ever since. Outspoken, left wing, and very much the American Europhile, hers is a story of a strong, independent character content to live in the shadow, perhaps, of men she loved and respected. I just know the rest of my life was worth it, she says. She is Betsy Blair.

Presenter1:29

It's very rare, Betsy, in the twenty-first century to be able to talk to somebody who was in Hollywood, in its heyday, you know, the sort of patriarchal Hollywood where the studio was king and Rodeo Drive was a kind of village street. Was it as glamorous as we we tend to think it was? I think probably it was as glamorous. I just didn't see it that way because I had nothing to compare it with. But having all those people, I mean, you had regular Saturday night. You lived on Rodeo Drive, did you? Yes, yes, yes. And you had Saturday night parties? Yes, and we had lots of famous, famous people. But they were all uh Gene was by then under contract to MGM and becoming a movie star, and it just seemed perfectly natural. I I was no longer impressed by

Betsy Blair2:13

Uh

Speaker 32:13

Come on.

Presenter2:16

Tyrone Power or whereas before to me to see him in a coffee shop in New York, I was like th any any teenage fan. And I suppose at the time you you wouldn't entirely know that these people were going to become legendary names, as it were, but but you had Noel Coward, didn't you, Judy Garland?

Speaker 32:24

Yeah.

Betsy Blair2:24

And I spoke.

Presenter2:33

Well, Judy Garland was already from being a child star. Uh but she was so funny and lively and friendly that you didn't notice. And uh Noel Coward was English, so that was that was Noel Coward. That was really fancy and and special. But did you have sort of s song and dance evenings round the piano? Yes, yes, and Noel Coward played the piano and sang too.

Betsy Blair2:50

Ben, did you

Presenter2:57

And Jean occasionally improvised a dance, and I guess it was special.

Betsy Blair2:57

Imagine

Presenter3:02

Didn't Marilyn Monroe come by sometime? Yes, Marilyn Monroe came because she was dating Nicholas Ray, the director. And I remember her only as this really sweet with the with the s spaghetti strap black dress and the straps falling off her shoulders and they were sort of necking the whole time, I mean canoodling and she was just really sweet, a sweet girl then. But you said, despite all of that, that you didn't really feel yourself to be glamorous, and that Jean was a very down to earth person. So did you all of the time, although these were your pals as you called them, this was your set you felt different apart.

Presenter3:42

I don't know how. Yes, I felt different. I felt that I was doing this, living this wonderful life, but I know that there was part of me that knew that this wasn't my whole life. And I didn't want the Hollywood things, but that was my left wing. That was the left-wing side. That was my mother's democratic influence. I didn't want a swimming pool. I didn't really want a mink coat. I didn't want to look rich. Do you mean you were offered these things and said no, thanks? Well, yes. I mean, the mink coat I accepted and then finally gave back after a year or so. Traded it in.

Presenter4:16

I want to hear about the left wing, but let's um let's pause, let's have some music. Your first record for your desert island.

Presenter4:22

Well

Presenter4:23

Porgy and Bess was such a thrilling thing to even hear, and it was one of the things that we sang around the piano. We had a wonderful time just singing for hours every little bit of Porgy and Bess, and this is the one I chose.

Speaker 24:41

There's a boat that's leaving soon for New York.

Speaker 24:47

Uh

Speaker 34:47

Come with me.

Speaker 34:50

That's where we belong.

Presenter4:51

Yeah.

Speaker 34:56

Sister that's where we

Betsy Blair5:01

Yeah.

Betsy Blair5:02

Yeah.

Speaker 35:02

Ah

Presenter5:09

Come on, Bess. John W. Bubbles, and there's a boat that's leaving soon for New York from Gershwin's Poggy and Bess, with the R C A Victor Orchestra conducted by Skitch Henderson. Let's go back earlier than those Hollywood days, just a bit, then, Betsey,'cause you met Jean when you were sixteen and you were married at seventeen, but you'd met him

Presenter5:27

I mean, in a classic kind of way for a dancer, you get off on the wrong foot. You met him and didn't know who or what he was. That's right. I was supposed to go to university, and I went for my interview, and they said I was too young emotionally, and I should go to junior college and come back in a year. And they'd keep my scholarship. My mother was a school teacher, so I was good in school. But I saw an ad in the paper for a call for dancers, and I said, I don't care what daddy says. I'm going to go to this call.

Betsy Blair5:29

Don't

Betsy Blair5:34

I was it.

Presenter5:54

And she was fantastic, my mother. She took a good look at me. She took me to Macy's and bought me high heels.

Presenter6:02

And she loaned me her lipstick. So you walked in. I walked in. So I go so I get to the second. Into Billy Rose's Diamond Horseshoe. Yes, Clown. Where was it? It was on Forty seventh Street, just off Broadway, in in the basement of the Edison Hotel.

Betsy Blair6:06

Yeah.

Betsy Blair6:09

Into

Betsy Blair6:11

Yes, now that is good.

Betsy Blair6:15

Yeah.

Presenter6:18

So I walk in and the bellboy in the hotel showed me downstairs to the nightclub.

Presenter6:25

And there was no one there.

Presenter6:27

And it was for call for dancers. Now usually there are five hundred girls at a call for dancers. And so this is nineteen forty, isn't it? Yes. So I see a young man sort of moving tables and chairs around.

Betsy Blair6:33

So we see

Presenter6:40

And I think it's another bellboy. So I said, Is this where the call for dancers is? And he said, Yes, but.

Presenter6:45

I think you'll find it tomorrow.

Presenter6:48

I said, No, no, no, I have a card from mister Rose.

Presenter6:51

He invited me personally. It's today. Today's the tenth, isn't it?

Presenter6:54

And he said, No, I think you'll find to morrow's the tenth. By now he was sort of grinning at me, and I'm thinking that he's rather flirtatious and fresh, and that he's a bellboy and what is and I'm here to audition as a dancer, and I'm a rather, I guess, pretentious fifteen year old. So I say thank you and turn around,

Presenter7:13

Ahi called after me, Are you a dancer?

Presenter7:16

And I deigned to say yes. And he said, Are you a good dancer? That I stopped and said,

Presenter7:22

Very.

Presenter7:24

And then I turned on my heel and left, and of course the next day I go to the audition, and there's Mr. Rose and five hundred girls and the choreographer, and that's our choreographer Gene Kelly, and that's my bellboy. So I was, you know, stricken, blushing from the fit of my stomach. I mean, miser but he was just funny and grinned at me and sort of acted like he was perfect. He behaved very nicely, and I did get chosen.

Presenter7:52

Record number two.

Presenter7:55

So the next song I wanted was Fred Estea because as a child in New Jersey.

Presenter8:01

It's quite funny that I ended up as I did, but my

Presenter8:05

Dream, my serious dream was: I'm going to grow up and dance with Fredastea.

Presenter8:10

So I had to include him.

Presenter8:18

But while there's moonlight and music and law

Speaker 38:21

And love.

Presenter8:22

Yeah.

Speaker 38:23

Romance Let's face the music and dance. Dance, let's face the music and dance.

Presenter8:40

Let's face the music and dance from Fred Astare, whom you didn't end up dancing with, but you did end up dancing with Gene Kelly for the next sixteen years. He was twelve years your senior when you met. How long before you realized you were in love with him? I think I realized

Presenter8:57

I didn't realize to start with, of course, but I think I realized quite soon, in about six weeks. Uh but I also thought it was hopeless. So when do you think he realized that you were more to him than just a kid's sister?

Presenter9:13

You know that I have no idea. It took quite a long time.

Presenter9:16

It's quite surprising. I can't imagine this 16-year-old girl and this 28, by then 29-year-old man. And yet it was happening. And eventually he did. Well, I mean, it's rather s sweet and silly. He was a Catholic. He was brought up a Catholic. He was no longer a Catholic. He was too political to be a good Catholic boy. But he did believe in good girls and bad girls still. And I was certainly a good girl. And so eventually he I remember clearly the sentence was, okay, I'll lend you a toothbrush, meaning, okay, you can stay over at my hotel room. So I did spend the night in his pajamas, using his toothbrush in his arms, but he didn't make love to me. He kissed me, but he explained that I was too young for more than that. So that kind of atmosphere and behavior went on probably for three or four months, but I don't remember exactly. I just know that for me it was like, oh, well, all right, this is how it is now. But I mean, this is just the preliminary. This is it's all going to happen. It seemed perfectly natural to me. Not that I knew I would never have told my mother. I knew it wasn't natural in that sense, that it wouldn't be approved of.

Presenter10:36

But he really nurtured me and took care of me until the moment came that he

Presenter10:40

I guess decided that he was serious, that he wasn't going to go to Hollywood without me. He did want to marry me. And so then that was all right. Then everything was all right. But in a way, it characterized, that characterized your relationship, didn't he? You were, and it's your phrase, his perfect little angel girl. I mean, he idolized you as a child, really. Yes. Well, or as he yes, as he sort of perfect young woman to find.

Betsy Blair11:02

Yeah.

Presenter11:07

Yes, it has to be that that's true, and that I really enjoyed that. I really welcomed it. I uh

Presenter11:15

It took quite a few years. We were married for sixteen, and I would say that for

Presenter11:21

eleven or twelve

Presenter11:22

It didn't occur to me that there was any other way that this seemed perfect. And then I began to feel.

Presenter11:28

And

Presenter11:29

No, I'm changing. I can't I can't be this little angel. I'm not this little angel. Why am I still treated like a little angel? Uh I have to do something. Anyway, I life did change then. As we shall hear. But let's um let's pause for n number three.

Presenter11:47

So Frank Sinatra is singing the song that Gian sang in Pal Joey, which was his starring role on Broadway, which and from that he went to Hollywood, which is when he took me with him and we got married.

Presenter12:00

If they ask me, I could write a book.

Presenter12:07

About the way you walk and whisper and look.

Presenter12:16

I could write a preface on how we met.

Presenter12:24

So the world would never

Presenter12:28

Crank Sinatra and I could write a book about how to make two lovers of friends, which is exactly, of course, what happened to you and Jean. Where you differed, it seems to me, was politically. He was a Democrat and a pretty left-wing one, but you were radical. You embraced Marxism. Now, why? What would have informed you?

Presenter12:48

I don't know. I think it was the thrill of being asked to attend a Marxist class, to be treated as a grown up by one of Jean's friends. And part of it is that it is extremely attractive to a young idealistic person. You know, I I don't deny that it turned out to be

Presenter13:06

I'm mistaken that we turned out to be blinded by our own feelings of doing good, but it certainly gave purpose to life and seemed to explain a way of living that would be better. Now, whatever committee was started, I was asked to be on because I was young, enthusiastic, hardworking, and I had free time. I gather you once lectured Bertolt Brecht on the nature of communism, isn't it? Well, yes. There was this wonderful woman, Salka Viertel, and she was where all the refugees from Europe, the left-wing refugees, came to her house in Santa Monica. That means Thomas Mann, Feudfanger, certainly Bertolt Brecht. Schoenberg. Schoenberg, yes. And it was a fantastic group of European intellectuals. And she entertained with Sunday lunch, then a walk on the beach, and then English tea.

Presenter14:04

And I didn't make it to Sunday lunch ever, but I would get there, and I got there one day just in time for the walk on the beach. And I was there with my sneakers and wanting to take them off and walk in the sand barefoot, and I was next to Berto Brecht, who's w wa waited behind while I'm taking my sneakers off. So I have them in one hand, he has my arm by the other side, and we're walking on the beach, and he said to me, Tell me.

Presenter14:30

What is socialism?

Presenter14:32

And I proceeded to tell him. I mean, I was this seventeen or eighteen-year-old girl. I proceeded to explain about the shoemakers' children who had no shoes or the means of production. I mean, I told him the most basic things. I said to Salka afterwards, How could I have been so silly to tell a man like that? And she said, Betsy, don't you're the you're you are being silly now.

Presenter14:55

He was flirting with you. It was his idea of a ploy for a young American girl to say to her.

Presenter15:02

Tell me what is socialism. And he thought you would say, Oh, mister Brecht, explain it to me, I don't know. So then he was. Instead of which he got a lecture. Yes. He was going to hold forth instead of that. It was very probably very good for him that you were so naive that you told him.

Betsy Blair15:08

Instead of which he got a lecture.

Presenter15:16

Jean you were one half, obviously, as we hear of of this very celebrated marriage. He didn't mind, did he, you doing all of these things. But there were other celebrated marriages where

Presenter15:27

The star didn't like the wife behaving in this way. Absolutely. No, he had no feeling that.

Presenter15:34

He should control anything I thought or did or believed in, although I'd been refused admission to the Communist Party when I asked to join on the basis that I was married to an important man who wasn't a member and I could be just as useful outside, which was probably true. It was quite cynical of them. Yes, yes. I was a bit upset at the time, but Gene didn't think I'd be a good Communist anyway. He didn't think I was disciplined enough. But he would never have interfered, and he would certainly never have thought that I might badly affect his career. Probably he didn't think he would be damaged by anything his young wife did. But McCarthyism was getting into its its stride. The House on American Activities Committee was set up, and the Red Scare began. I gather you were sent for by the the then head of MGM, Louis B. Mayer, and warned off. Yes, yes. Well, I actually demanded that interview with L. B. Mayer because they claimed there wasn't a blacklist. And suddenly, a journalist told me that I was going to be replaced in a movie. So I walked into his office and L. B. Mayer started with, I don't know what's wrong with you people. I had to talk to Spence and Kate, that's Hepburn and Tracy, too. I mean, don't you appreciate what you have? I mean, this is the greatest country in the world, and I don't know what's wrong with you. And it went on and on like this for an hour. Anyway, after an hour, the secretary came and said, Mr. Kelly's in the outside office. Well, L.B. came out into his outer office with me, put his arm around Jean on one side, me on the other, and said, Gene, she's a lovely girl and as American as you and me.

Presenter17:17

And we thought we'd won. And it turned out that I was in that movie.

Presenter17:24

Because surely MGM didn't want any scandal.

Presenter17:28

So I was in that movie and then I was blacklisted.

Presenter17:33

Water come, let's have number four. Lena Horne was one of the people that came to our

Presenter17:38

House with Lenny Hayton on the Saturday nights. She was a good friend. And the song was written by Hugh Martin and R Ralph Blaine, who also were regulars. And it just means Hollywood in those days where Lena was struggling. It wasn't the way it should have been. She didn't have the career she should have.

Presenter17:59

Love can be a dying ember. Love can be a flame.

Betsy Blair18:07

Long pledged in September.

Presenter18:11

Uh

Betsy Blair18:11

Maybe

Presenter18:12

Dead in the seven one

Betsy Blair18:15

You may not

Presenter18:15

Not even remember.

Presenter18:23

Great stuff, Lena Horn and love. So your name, Betsy Bear, was firmly on the blacklist, as it turned out. For four years, you had no offer of work at all. And then in 1955, the offer came for you to play opposite Ernest Borgnin in Marty. How come that offer came? Well, because I'd met Patty Tchaevsky, who wrote it, in the very first movie I was in, Double Life. So anyway, I got the call to go for the audition. Did they know you were on the blacklist? No, I don't think it was ever. They didn't consider it. They were from New York. They weren't even thinking like that.

Betsy Blair18:54

Yeah.

Presenter18:59

Three times I audition. I read for them. And then as I left the last reading, the secretary, as she let me out, said, I think you got the part. The Great Stoneface had a tear in his eye. Now, the Great Stoneface was Burt Lancaster, one of the producers. And so he had a tear. She thought I got the part. Well, I did get the part. But the producer called and said, Betsy, I know you think it's a wonderful script and you're happy to be in the movie, but you're going to have to write a letter or see the congressman or. Write a letter to the Un-American Artists Committee. And that meant, people didn't say it out in detail, but it meant.

Betsy Blair19:34

Yeah.

Presenter19:40

If you're writing a letter, you're naming names, you're accusing other people, you're saying, I'm sorry I was a communist, I've made a mistake. You're naming other people in your circle. Yes. Informing. Yes, informing.

Betsy Blair19:47

But I was an enslave.

Betsy Blair19:49

In

Presenter19:51

To buy your way into a job. Yeah, so I said to this man, Harold Hick.

Presenter19:56

I don't know why you started with me. You knew I wouldn't do this. And I was very unhappy. Now, I think I tried to behave well at home. I think I didn't carry on and cry and stuff.

Presenter20:07

But certainly Gene knew that I was upset, furious, frustrated, angry. And so he went into MGM. By now the head of MGM was a man called Dory Shari, who was a friend.

Presenter20:23

Who was a l liberal person?

Presenter20:26

So Jean went into him and said, Listen, Dorie.

Presenter20:29

You know her. You play charades with her on Saturday nights. You know she's not going to overthrow the country. Uh do something, or I'm going to stop shooting.

Presenter20:39

So, Dori Shari?

Presenter20:42

called the American Legion in Washington in front of Gene.

Presenter20:45

and vouched for me.

Presenter20:48

And so I was in Marty. You got the pass.

Presenter20:51

And it turned out that he only vouched for me for that movie, but still, it was very important for me. You talk about.

Presenter20:58

Being asked to inform, how many people, what sort of people did inform, name names?

Presenter21:05

I don't know how many. I would say that maybe

Presenter21:09

A third of the people I knew who were left wing did inform. There were famous ones who informed, like Kazan. Ilya Kazan. Yes. And there were

Betsy Blair21:18

Pelia Kazan.

Presenter21:22

Non-famous ones, as there were famous people who were harmed and non-famous people who were even more harmed.

Presenter21:28

Record number five.

Presenter21:30

So

Presenter21:31

Adolph Green and Betty Comden were extremely important to us and wrote many, many wonderful songs, and this is a version of one.

Betsy Blair21:41

It's so important to make someone happy.

Betsy Blair21:45

Make just one someone happy.

Betsy Blair21:50

Make just one heart-to-heart you

Betsy Blair21:55

You sing to one.

Betsy Blair22:00

Smile that cheers you

Betsy Blair22:02

One face that lights when it needs you, one girl you're

Betsy Blair22:09

You're everything.

Presenter22:10

Jimmy Duranty and Make Someone Happy.

Presenter22:14

Betsy Blair, Marty was a landmark film. It scooped the pool, didn't it, in awards? It won the Cannes Film Festival and all sorts of Oscar nominated for all sorts. You got an Oscar nomination as best actress. I mean, we should explain for people who don't know the story, it's the story of a lonely, rather lumpy butcher, isn't it, played by Ernest Baldmein, who falls in love with a kind of lonely, plain Jane schoolteacher, who was you, Clara. Not that you looked at all kind of plain Jane. I mean, well, according to what the standard was in those days, I was quite plain. You know, I wasn't Marilyn Munro or Well, you didn't look like a movie star, I suppose, in that kind of glam sense that we mean. Yes, yes. I mean, people have asked me if I minded being called a dog and all that. Of course I didn't mind. It was a great part. Yes, because you were, first of all, taken to this dance hall by a guy who didn't fancy you, and he said, I've been a dog. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And he tried to palm me off on Marty. He said, to Marty, I'll give you five bucks. Marty said, that's not nice. You can't do that to a girl. So then he followed her. She ran out, and he followed her out onto the balcony outside, looking over some tenements. And she was crying, and she fell into a you know, and that was how they met. Terribly touching, but it's a really rather simple

Betsy Blair22:41

Plain

Betsy Blair22:54

They don't

Betsy Blair22:56

Yeah.

Betsy Blair23:09

But yes there's a dog.

Betsy Blair23:31

Money does not

Presenter23:36

Homespun American tale of decency and love, isn't it? And that's why it was so surprising that it had its enormous worldwide success. Well, I was going to ask you, why did it? Yes. I think it was because it was the first film after the war that came from Hollywood that was about real people. Now, it's true, it was 10 years after the war. It was quite a long time. But there it was, a butcher and a schoolteacher. And it was such a shock in Cam when they showed it. And they liked it, United Artists. They really thought it was quality, but they didn't expect any great success monetarily. And then.

Betsy Blair23:41

And that's why it was

Betsy Blair23:44

Yeah.

Presenter24:12

It was amazing at the very first showing. There was applause after many scenes. At the end there was an ovation. Everybody wanted interviews and all that again. It was a you know, it's a shock to United Artists and everybody that it should make all this money and be so successful.

Betsy Blair24:28

Successful.

Presenter24:29

Great, it's a great story.

Presenter24:31

It was after that, really, uh, that was fifty six, as we say, it was after that that you divorced from Jean and you moved on, you went to live in Paris and began making films, as I said, with Antonioni and very different kinds of films. Really, in a way, that was you suddenly growing up, wasn't it? That was you in search of your mature self. Yes, I think so.

Betsy Blair24:48

Such

Presenter24:52

It was my work and my career and my w you know, I was for the first time I was independent. And you were free in so many other ways. I I mean, Paris presumably symbolized everything that had been

Presenter25:03

Repressed in in Hollywood weather is.

Presenter25:06

romantic or political or sexual or cinematic. Yes. The gloves were off. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And the uh there were all these other Americans who were the blacklisted family, so I had those friends, but it was mainly making friends in France.

Betsy Blair25:08

Yes. Yes.

Presenter25:22

I'd always loved anything foreign.

Presenter25:25

As a child in New Jersey, even. So I really loved it.

Presenter25:30

And among among the friends were Yves Montan and Silon Signore, my closest French friends, and so I we had to have a song by Yves.

Betsy Blair25:40

Counten Solda Sanvatange, Rila.

Betsy Blair25:44

Dance music son battle.

Betsy Blair25:47

Countin' Salda, Robien de Guerrilla.

Betsy Blair25:51

Lansome musette tempote de l'angelle.

Betsy Blair25:55

Parti, pour Maurice Rampel.

Betsy Blair25:58

A la guerre, a la guerre, c'est d'role de pejeu, quin vaguer au la mouraux.

Betsy Blair26:10

Eve Montana and Continent.

Presenter26:11

Solda.

Presenter26:13

And then, Betsy Blair, you got what turned out to be, you said, the most important job I ever had in a film called All Night Long. Why was that so special? Well, because that's when I met Carol Rice, my second husband. And it did change my life. I have spent the last 42 years in London because of falling in love with Carol and marrying him.

Presenter26:38

Now that he died

Presenter26:40

Two years ago, and I always thought I'd go back to New York if I were alone. And I realized.

Presenter26:48

Not at all. I've been here more than half my life. I like it here. I'm going to stay here. It's where I was so happy with Carol all those years. When I came to London

Presenter26:57

I said to my agent, Listen, I'm just at the age where I'm too young to be anybody's mother. I'm too old to be any young leading lady. I can't play English parts in England. I could in New York. I think I should be quiet for a while. I shouldn't act. And fortunately, it was a very good agent.

Presenter27:17

He would call up and say, Well, the B B C wants you to be in Death of a Salesman with Rod Steiger. Should I say no? and I'd say, No, no, no, don't say no No, please, yes, I'll do that, of course. So I did continue working here.

Presenter27:30

But only sort of twice a year, say, which may be as much as I would have worked if I'd been trying very hard. But I suppose if you're married to a man and you were in both cases, it seems to me, um, who respects your opinions, who who respects your right to operate in your own right as well as in his interests, as it were, who respects your spirit, you know, then you don't feel yes, you don't feel put upon because you're not.

Speaker 227:52

He doesn't feel

Presenter27:55

Exactly. Yes, and be so sides you've chosen. Exactly. And and

Presenter28:00

As you say, it's a even if you did give up certain acting jobs because it didn't fit, it was a small price to pay for a thing called happiness. Yes, that's right. Am I reading you right? Absolutely, that's right.

Betsy Blair28:10

Yes, that's right.

Presenter28:15

We had to have a record by Gene, and I think I Got Rhythm is about it.

Speaker 228:23

Hey, come.

Speaker 228:24

Rhythm I got

Speaker 328:27

New music.

Speaker 328:29

My gal, who could ask for anything more?

Speaker 328:33

Daisy in green pastures.

Speaker 328:38

My gal, who could ask for anything more Old Man Trouble, I don't mind him, you won't find him round my

Presenter28:51

Gene Kelly and I got rhythm class from the soundtrack to An American in Paris, um, which was released in nineteen fifty one. Uh Gene died in uh nineteen ninety six, didn't he? He um he he married twice more after you, the last time to a much younger woman, Patricia Ward Kelly.

Betsy Blair29:01

Yeah.

Presenter29:06

Who was, I think, thirty-six to his seventy-seven. So he went went on liking younger women. Well, yes, I mean, she was even younger than that, actually. But he did ask her to say she was in her thirties because it sounded too bad to be in your twenties. Did you remain in touch after the divorce? Yes. Would you see him? With Jean. We were in touch in well, because we had Carrie and therefore and then there were grandchildren. And then Jeannie, his second wife, died of leukemia when his children were quite young. And so I was I offered to be a great aunt Betsy. But certainly whenever we went to California, we would I would go and have a cup of tea, and certainly when he came to London, you know, and Carrie was married here, and yes, we were in touch.

Betsy Blair29:19

But

Betsy Blair29:22

Yes, of course.

Presenter29:52

We were friendly.

Presenter29:54

And I remember when Carol first met him, Carol said it was so surprising because he was he was behaving as if he were your uncle, and therefore now he was handing you over to this younger person to to Carol. When was the last time you saw him then?

Presenter30:10

I saw him, I guess it was a year before he died, when I went to the house.

Betsy Blair30:10

I saw a microphone.

Presenter30:15

It was very sad because I didn't know it was the last time I'd ever see him. I knew he'd had a stroke. He was in a wheelchair. And that's why I went to see him. And uh we talked and he was charming and we talked about the olden days and we made jokes and and then I kissed him goodbye on the cheek and then

Presenter30:34

And then we taught some more.

Presenter30:36

And then, when I said, uh, well, I'm just going to give you another kiss, and he said, Good, because I don't get any of that.

Presenter30:44

And I left, got into my car and drove away, and realized that the tears were running down my face and that it was the idea which I knew

Presenter30:53

But it hadn't been I hadn't focused on it clearly. Anyway, it was a a classic tragic.

Presenter31:00

story, in my opinion, of the man who

Presenter31:04

Probably, strangely enough, even that realistic man might get to be a vain old man who believed a young woman loved him. And it's not unheard of. It's in all literature. It's happened in Hollywood many times. But it is sad. I found it very sad because he gave so much joy to the world that he shouldn't have had a sad ending. He gave so much joy to you, huh? And to me, yes. Yes.

Speaker 331:25

Yeah. Every joy to you.

Speaker 331:30

Last record.

Presenter31:32

So I have to I have to have a sort of a s bit of music that goes with everybody and happiness and love. The girl for me, Panema.

Presenter31:43

For Carol.

Presenter31:46

And Jean loved it. I mean, everybody loves it, so it's it goes with the whole life.

Speaker 331:51

Tall and ten and young and lovely, the girl from Ibanima goes walking and when she passes, Each one she passes goes high.

Speaker 332:06

When she walks she's like a samba that swings so cool and sways so gently That when she passes each one she passes goes

Presenter32:19

Astrid Gilberto and The Girl from Ipanima. Now if you could only take one of those eight records, Betsy, which one would you take?

Presenter32:28

There's a boat that's leaving soon for New York. I don't know if it's for the song or for the joke.

Speaker 232:30

Yeah.

Betsy Blair32:31

Yeah.

Presenter32:34

I'm on the island. I'm going to New York.

Presenter32:37

And what about your book? We give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. I would like to take reading lyrics, which has American songs from 1900 to 1975 of all the great Coleporter, Gershwin, Rogerson Hawaii. I mean, all the great lyrics. So you're going to sing them all to yourself on your desk island, yeah. Yes, that's right. And Carol had an uncle who was in the Slansky trial, who was in jail for nine years in solitary confinement, who said he survived.

Speaker 332:58

Yeah.

Betsy Blair32:59

A

Presenter33:07

by singing silently to himself all the music he knew.

Presenter33:12

So I figure I would survive the desert island.

Speaker 233:15

And what about a luxury?

Presenter33:17

I'd like an ice cream maker, silly as that is. That's what I'd like.

Presenter33:22

Betsy Blair, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 233:35

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.