Dick Francis

Presenter0:00

This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition of Desert Island Discs. The presenter was Roy Plumley.

Dick Francis0:08

Dick, where were you born? I was born in Pembrokeshire, South Wales, which is always known as Little England Beyond Wales. Welsh roots? Welsh roots. Uh unfortunately I can't speak Welsh, but uh

Presenter0:18

You come from a horse-loving family, don't you?

Dick Francis0:20

Yes, both my father and grandfather rode for years before me. Did you learn to ride as a very young child? Yes, as a boy when I was at school and I was more or less born in the saddle really.

Presenter0:26

Yes.

Presenter0:31

Yeah.

Dick Francis0:32

Your father had a hunting stables in the sand. He had a hunting stables at Wokingham, Berkshire, just before the war.

Dick Francis0:38

And when I left school I went into the business with him until the war broke out and then I joined the Air Force, had six years in the Air Force. You were a pilot? I was a pilot, yes. And when the war was over? When the war was over I went back into the business hoping that I should build it up again, father having kept it going all through the war, but unfortunately

Dick Francis0:59

The horse dealing business wasn't as good then as as it had been before before the war, so I I went up to Cheshire and went into it. Had you had a boyhood ambition to be a jockey? Always wanted to be a jockey. My father and mother were never very keen on me being so, but I always wanted to be and I was

Dick Francis1:16

Took the first opportunity of being one when I could. How did you do with your your first months? Well, the first month I had.

Dick Francis1:23

was Russian hero, funnily enough. He finished fourth in the novice chase at war, war hunt. And uh funnily enough

Dick Francis1:33

Two and a half years later, my first Grand National mount, Reuman, finished second, and what should beat me but Russian hero. Rather rubbing it in, I thought.

Dick Francis1:42

Yeah.

Presenter1:42

You began as an amateur. Being an amateur steeplechase jockey must be rather inexpensive, aren't you?

Dick Francis1:47

Uh it it's expensive um if one lives at home and one has to get about the place, but I

Dick Francis1:53

worked for George Owen as his secretary for a number of years and he went racing a lot and I went with him and his owners gave me lifts when I couldn't. I also had a car of my own. But uh I managed, probably on the shoestring, but

Dick Francis2:06

Why did you stick to steeplechasing? Uh well I'm too big for flat racing. I'm uh my normal weight's about ten stone, or was when I was riding, and a bit more now. And um also I think steeplechasing is oh there's much more thrill out of jumping the obstacles than there is galloping on the flat. And uh

Dick Francis2:24

The the people who go steeplechasing, they're much nicer. I shouldn't say that, but I think they do it more for fun than business.

Presenter2:32

Flag racing is rather business-wise. Yes, it the the prizes are smaller and the atmosphere somehow seems matier.

Dick Francis2:37

Yeah, quite right, yes.

Presenter2:39

When did you turn professional?

Dick Francis2:40

I turned professional in March 1948. How long have you been riding? I'd been riding for eighteen months as an amateur and the stewards thought I was taking too much of the bread and butter out of the professionals' mouths and they had me in at the National Hunt Meeting at Cheltenham.

Dick Francis2:55

And they said, Francis, look, you're...

Dick Francis2:57

Having too many rides as an amateur, we think you ought to turn professional.

Dick Francis3:01

Have you any objections to doing this at the end of the season? Well, I couldn't.

Dick Francis3:06

put up any objections, so I said no. They said, well I after having a word between themselves they said well we think we better tell at the end of this week. So that was the end of my days as an amateur jockey. I never regretted it afterwards.

Presenter3:14

So that was the end.

Presenter3:18

A professional jockey works for a flat fee per race, doesn't he?

Dick Francis3:22

Nowadays, yes, when I was riding, it was seven guineas for every ride.

Dick Francis3:27

and 10 guineas for a winner. But nowadays it's 10 guineas for every ride.

Dick Francis3:33

Professional jockey hopes that uh

Dick Francis3:35

He will get a present for winning a race, but it's not in the rules that he should do. Is a jockey engaged by the trainer or by the owner?

Dick Francis3:44

Chiefly by the trainer.

Dick Francis3:46

My first big job as a professional jockey, I was fortunate enough to be retained to ride

Dick Francis3:53

for Lord Bister, who was a big owner in those days. And I went on writing for him until

Dick Francis3:59

He he died and then I was retained to ride for Peter Caslett's stable and his sort of biggest owner is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth's the Queen Mother. How many races does a successful jockey hope to get in a season? Well a successful jockey in the first dozen or so they hope to ride between 350, 450 rides if they possibly can. The year I was champion jockey I rode 75 winners and it was somewhere around about 400 mounts.

Presenter4:27

Yeah. Now you have your regular rides for the stables that retain you, but for casual engagements, does that mean you sometimes don't see the horse before you ride it?

Dick Francis4:36

Oh very often, yes one doesn't see the one's horse, but uh

Dick Francis4:40

One hopes one knows a little bit about its history, but you often don't see it.

Presenter4:43

On a course where you've never written before, do you o

Dick Francis4:45

Always get a chance to inspect the

Presenter4:47

Jump?

Dick Francis4:47

Every jockey should walk round before he rides. I walked round every course except one. One was a place I went to on an Easter Monday and the traffic held me up. I couldn't get there in time to walk round. But every jockey should walk around and weigh up things from the course.

Presenter5:02

Uh

Dick Francis5:02

Are the

Presenter5:03

So you were champion jockey. Which year was it? Nineteen fifty three fifty four. Mm. How many Grand Nationals have you written in?

Presenter5:13

Yeah.

Dick Francis5:13

Do you agree that this is a cruel race? No, I don't. Uh uh the sort of horses that are entered for it.

Dick Francis5:19

Ah, build good horses

Dick Francis5:22

It's a wonderful track to ride on, I think. The the National gets one a little bit excited on the day and everything works up to it. But the other races they hold around the course, they're a great thrill to ride in.

Presenter5:34

Now one of the great mysteries in the history of the Grand National was the strange case of Devon Locke in 1956. Now you were writing Devon Locke for Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, weren't you? Yes, that's right. Now will will you tell us that story?

Dick Francis5:45

Oh no.

Dick Francis5:47

Well, a lot of things have been put forward why he collapsed fifty yards from the winning post. You were way out in front, weren't you? I was about ten minutes in front, and if only he'd

Dick Francis5:57

Finished that last 50 yards, he would have won it in record time. The horse that did eventually win it, ESB, was only.

Dick Francis6:05

one or two seconds outside the record and I was about ten lines in front of him at that time.

Dick Francis6:10

I I think uh

Dick Francis6:12

The reason why he collapsed was because it was a royal winner. Everyone was...

Dick Francis6:17

Cheering their hearts out, their heads off, really, and

Dick Francis6:22

This horse

Dick Francis6:24

Jumped the last fence as well as he jumped any all the way. I had a wonderful ride. And then about fifty yards from the winning post, you pass the water jump, which is on the inside. And I've looked at the film many times since, and I see the horse just prick his ears, saying, Ah, I've been here before. And I think as he did that, the crescendo hit him in the ears. The crescendo of sound. The crescendo of sound hit him. And just for a split second, his hind leg refused to work.

Dick Francis6:55

And uh

Dick Francis6:56

With his hind leg refusing to work his

Dick Francis6:58

Front ones went up to try and save himself and down he went and we sprawled out on the ground. Funnily enough we didn't part company, but uh

Dick Francis7:07

He got up and he couldn't move because he'd pulled all his muscles by going down, but

Presenter7:11

Terribly disappointing deview.

Dick Francis7:13

Oh, the greatest disappointment. Neither.

Presenter7:15

But

Dick Francis7:15

Yeah.

Presenter7:15

Ad.

Presenter7:16

When did you decide to retire from racing?

Dick Francis7:19

Well, it was rather forced upon me and uh

Dick Francis7:22

Ten months after that Grand National episode in 1956, I had a number of falls and

Dick Francis7:27

Each fall was taking longer to get over than they had done a few years previously.

Presenter7:32

Did you consider you were injury prone? Were you getting more?

Dick Francis7:35

Oh no, no, no, I wasn't injury prone, I was

Dick Francis7:38

Forty prone really. I was getting towards forty and I never had a really serious accident. I broke some vertebrae in my back a few ti once or twice, but I didn't have anything which really kept me off a long time.

Dick Francis7:51

Since you are retired you have been

Presenter7:52

In doing some judging of course, and you'll become a racing journalist.

Dick Francis7:55

Yes, that's right. And the Sunday Express asked me if I would write a few articles for them after I gave up and the few articles have developed into ten years' work now. Yes. So you still go to all the meetings? I go about three or four days a week. Mm-hmm. And you've written some thrillers. Yes, I.

Presenter8:10

Five minutes.

Dick Francis8:11

I'm on my sixth now. It's called Blood Sport. They've been a lot harder work than riding was, but uh I've got a lot of satisfaction out of them. All with racing background.

Presenter8:21

Yeah.

Presenter8:21

All with horses as a background.

Presenter8:24

in the footsteps of Edgar Wallace and further back Nat Gould.

Presenter8:28

Well, yes, I suppose so, yes.

Dick Francis8:30

Yeah.

Presenter8:30

How long do you take to write one?

Dick Francis8:33

Well, I think about it from the time the last manuscript goes in about Easter until

Dick Francis8:38

The boys go back to school and

Dick Francis8:40

The autumn and then it takes me until probably the Easter to finish it. Yes. Two sons, Merrick and Felix, yes.

Presenter8:47

Are you a disciplined writer? Can you write so much a day?

Dick Francis8:50

I'm afraid not. No, it probably would be easier if one could stop and get down to it, but I

Presenter8:55

Right.

Dick Francis8:55

I have to write when the mood takes me and when the occasion rises really. So this is the pattern.

Dick Francis9:02

The weekly article and a novel every year. That's about it, yes. I hope so for some time to come anyhow.