Karan Bilimoria

Speaker 40:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and four, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My castaway this week is an entrepreneur. The son of a famous Indian Army family who was given his own Gurkha sword for his eighth birthday, he was expected to follow the family tradition and join the military, or seek distinction in some other pucker profession. But his abilities lay in other directions. He turned his back on the bar and went into business, becoming what the family described as an import-export waller. First he traded in polo sticks, then he moved into bejewelled jackets. But it was only when he remembered that as a student in Cambridge he'd found most beer entirely unsuitable as an accompaniment to curry that his successful career as a businessman was born. Today his Cobra Beer in its distinctive large bottle has become one of the fastest growing businesses in the country. He's been named Entrepreneur of the Year and his company has won numerous awards for its brilliant competitive strategy in taking on the big brewers and beating them at their own game.

Presenter1:23

His success lies in knowing his market. Britain is a nation of curioholics, he says, addicted emotionally to Indian food. He is Curran Bilamoria. So now you're a successful import export waller, Curran. I mean d does the family is the family now on side? Do they approve of you now you're a success?

Karan Bilimoria1:42

When I first started, people asked me, Did you get help from your family? I said, Well, forget financial help. I didn't even get any emotional help from them. They called me an import-export waller.

Presenter1:51

They really disapproved. I mean it was a genuine disapproval.

Karan Bilimoria1:54

I think out of concern for me actually you can't really blame them because if I'd commissioned McKinseys or someone like that to do a feasibility study of a twenty seven year old with twenty thousand pounds of student debt, no experience in the industry against giant beer brands in an ancient industry

Karan Bilimoria2:11

Consultants would have said, Don't waste our time or your money.

Presenter2:14

Except that you had done something that that, you know, all entrepreneurs need to do. You'd spotted a gap in the market. Tell me about that moment when you spotted it. Your Eureka moment, if you like.

Karan Bilimoria2:25

Well, I believe that most business ideas are not inventions. Invariably, you're dissatisfied with a product or a service and you think I can do this better and I can do this differently. And in my case, I just hated the lagers in this country when I came over as a nineteen year old and I drank all these famous lager brands and I found a lot of them really fizzy and harsh and bland and really difficult to drink, and particularly with Indian food. It made me very bloated. Exactly. I couldn't eat as much as I wanted to. And I thought, well,

Speaker 42:51

And made me

Presenter2:52

Yeah.

Speaker 42:52

Exactly.

Karan Bilimoria2:56

The restaurant owner could be selling me more beer and more food. There's a business opportunity here. And and I thought one day I'll bring in my own lager from India, which will have all the refreshing qualities of a lager, but it'll be smoother and less gassy, and it'll accompany Indian food and appeal to ale drinkers as well.

Presenter3:12

So did you did you know it? I mean, did it exist in India, or was this something that your palate told you could be made?

Karan Bilimoria3:19

It didn't exist at all, and I knew the taste in my mind very, very clearly. I knew exactly what I wanted this beer to be.

Presenter3:25

Why did you know it so clearly?

Karan Bilimoria3:27

Because I love beer. And of course a lot of luck comes into it. I was introduced to the largest independent brewery in in India and Bangalore, and to the best brewmaster in India, Doctor Garepa.

Presenter3:38

But how were you able to say to him what you wanted?

Karan Bilimoria3:41

Well, it involved working with him for three months and actually going through tasting after tasting and ingredients and saying, well, this is what I like, this is what I don't like, and coming up with the first pro. And of course, the first prue

Karan Bilimoria3:54

Wasn't really what I wanted, but it was a starting point.

Presenter3:57

So you transmitted your passion.

Presenter3:59

What you didn't realize went was once it was all going to take off, you were you launched your business in the worst recession since the war, 1990.

Karan Bilimoria4:07

I chose my timing adequately.

Presenter4:10

Let's pause there and have your first record. What is it?

Karan Bilimoria4:12

Pavarotti.

Karan Bilimoria4:13

Uh and escentorma.

Karan Bilimoria4:15

This was uh an amazing concert that took place literally a month after Cobra had arrived in the UK.

Karan Bilimoria4:23

And I'll never forget that concert and um having Zubin Mehta, who's from my community, a Zoroastrian Parsi.

Karan Bilimoria4:30

conducting Pavarotti and and it was just fabulous and and it was just after the beard come into the country.

Speaker 45:16

Hear me a voice for hear us, and I think you are

Speaker 45:26

Yeah.

Presenter5:32

Luciano Pavarotti singing Nesundoma and None Shall Sleep from Puccini's Turundot with the orchestras of the Rome opera and the Maggio Musicale conducted by Zubin Mehta. You say, um, Caron, it's the it's the vincera that gets you there.

Karan Bilimoria5:44

Oh, I love that I will win, I will win, I will win. And to me it was I knew it was going to be against all odds right from the beginning.

Presenter5:51

Good.

Karan Bilimoria5:52

And that's just really rousing.

Presenter5:54

But it took you a long time, as we shall hear. Let's take just a bit of time out there, though, too. You mentioned that Zubin Mehta is a a Parsi, which you are too. It's a it's a religious minority in India. I think am I right, a hundred thousand?

Presenter6:07

But you said

Karan Bilimoria6:07

Yeah.

Presenter6:10

Everyone in India knows who we are. Now explain that to me.

Karan Bilimoria6:14

Well, we we are one of the smallest communities in in the world, I suppose, and we left um Iran, uh Persia, over a thousand y years ago.

Karan Bilimoria6:23

and um took refuge.

Karan Bilimoria6:25

In India.

Karan Bilimoria6:27

and the legend goes of the leader of the Parses.

Karan Bilimoria6:31

Went to the local king and asked if the Parsis could settle there. And the king said, Well, yeah, we'd love to have you, but we have no space.

Karan Bilimoria6:39

And the leaders' party said no.

Karan Bilimoria6:41

Let me illustrate how we will enrich your lives.

Karan Bilimoria6:44

And he asked for a glass of milk.

Karan Bilimoria6:47

and a teaspoon of sugar.

Karan Bilimoria6:50

and he put the teaspoon of sugar in the glass of milk, and stirred it in.

Karan Bilimoria6:53

And he said we're going to be like the sugar.

Karan Bilimoria6:56

Will be mixed up in the milk.

Karan Bilimoria6:58

But you'll be able to taste our sweetness, and they were let in.

Karan Bilimoria7:02

And it's a small, small community, and yet Parsis have done so well in just about every field, whether it's music, Zubenmetter, politics, sports. Farouk Engineer, the great cricketer you name it in every single field Parsis have excelled.

Presenter7:03

And it's just small

Presenter7:15

Yeah.

Presenter7:19

So being a Parsee obviously has given you all along enormous confidence, but um also your family background. As I mentioned, the the Billimorias are a famous Indian Army family. How far back do they go, in fact, in army history?

Karan Bilimoria7:31

Well, my father was in the army, my grandfather was commissioned here at Sandhest and was in the army. My great grandfather was actually in the police.

Karan Bilimoria7:40

And he had the unpleasant task of arresting Mahatma Gandhi three times.

Karan Bilimoria7:46

and my grandfather when he was a colonel.

Karan Bilimoria7:49

was sent with his battalion to go and protect Mahatma Gandhi. So he went in to report to Mahatma Gandhi and said, This is Colonel Billimorio. Mahatma Gandhi asked my grandfather, Are you by any chance Dunjashah Billimorio's son?

Karan Bilimoria8:03

So my grandfather said, Yes, that's my father.

Karan Bilimoria8:05

Gandhi said, There must be a mistake here. I don't feel very safe with you. Your father arrested me three times. And they got on really well after that.

Presenter8:12

And and your grandfather protected him?

Presenter8:15

So obviously, as we say, that kind of uh military history in the family, but any any business history in the family, any any kind of

Karan Bilimoria8:23

Yes, my mother's side of the family were were a business family. My great grandfather D D Italia.

Karan Bilimoria8:30

Built up a business from scratch in South India in Hyderabad.

Karan Bilimoria8:35

and uh built up a business in porcelain and enamel, liquor, textiles, cinemas, property.

Presenter8:41

So it's in the blind. The family doesn't say to you where on earth did Curran get this from. They can identify exactly.

Karan Bilimoria8:41

It's in the blank.

Karan Bilimoria8:46

Yes, he's been a strong and and he's been a great inspiration. A wonderful person. I've never heard a bad word said about him.

Presenter8:47

Uh

Presenter8:52

Record number two, tell me about that.

Karan Bilimoria8:54

I'd like to select a song called Soul, written by my cousin Cheyenne, who is a musician, a very talented musician, who is also a great grandson of D D Italia. And I think again for him it's against all odds, and I hope my great grandfather's inspiration is inspiring him.

Speaker 49:17

See ya.

Speaker 49:20

I say it with all my heart and soul

Speaker 49:25

And when I

Speaker 49:33

I feel you.

Speaker 49:37

Everything

Speaker 49:38

He starts to grow cold.

Presenter9:42

Soul written and performed by Shan Italia, my castaway's cousin. Your father at Curran rose to become General Billimoria, but he was rising through the ranks when you were a boy, and you said I was really brought up in the Indian Army. Tell me about it. What kind of upbringing then was that?

Karan Bilimoria9:59

It was the most amazing upbringing. When I was seven years old my father took over command of his battalion of Gurkhas. He was from the Second Fifth Gurkha Rifles Frontier Force.

Karan Bilimoria10:09

A very famous Gruka battalion that had won three Victoria Crosses in the Second World War.

Karan Bilimoria10:16

and my mother, brother and I joined my father when he took over command of the battalion in Allahabad in North India.

Karan Bilimoria10:24

And the battalion was posted down to Trivandrum, which is right at the tip of India in Kerala.

Karan Bilimoria10:30

and a special train.

Karan Bilimoria10:32

Was commandeered to take the whole battalion down.

Presenter10:35

How long did it take?

Karan Bilimoria10:36

How long did it take?

Speaker 410:36

Uh

Presenter10:36

Yeah.

Karan Bilimoria10:38

and the whole train was at my father's disposal, and we would stop whenever they wanted to. We'd be allowed into the engine and to to drive the train, so to say.

Speaker 410:48

What and what does

Karan Bilimoria10:48

What is a seven, eight-year-old? It's interesting with the engine driver. It's so exciting.

Presenter10:48

There's a seven eight-year-old who would drive

Karan Bilimoria10:53

One of the memories I'll never forget was suddenly the chain was pulled.

Karan Bilimoria10:57

The middle of the day.

Karan Bilimoria10:58

And the train came to a screeching halt.

Karan Bilimoria11:01

Because one of the Gurkha women.

Karan Bilimoria11:03

was giving birth and had gone into labor.

Karan Bilimoria11:06

Great excitement on the train, and and this baby boy was delivered on the train, and everyone was very happy.

Karan Bilimoria11:13

and that son was called Rail Bahadur.

Karan Bilimoria11:16

Because all Gurkhas are called Bhadur, which means brave. And his first name was Rail Bhadur. And he's actually subsequently joined my father's battalion.

Speaker 411:20

Uh

Presenter11:20

Really fun.

Presenter11:25

Go ahead.

Karan Bilimoria11:25

and became a soldier himself.

Presenter11:27

And you were mentioning uh just now that Farouk Engineer would have been called engineer because his father was an engineer.

Karan Bilimoria11:33

By his father, grandfather, great grandfather, somebody in his family would probably have taken on the surname engineer, because that was the profession.

Presenter11:39

And you were called y your well, the family name is Billy Moria, because

Karan Bilimoria11:43

Because we settled in a part of Gujarat called Billemora, so Billemorias are from Billemora.

Presenter11:50

But now tell me about being given a Gorkha sword, which I mentioned in in the introduction, when you were age eight. Is that a kind of rite of passage?

Karan Bilimoria11:56

Well, my eighth birthday present as a sort of welcome to the battalion was a kukri, the gurka knife.

Karan Bilimoria12:03

in in I still remember a sort of velvet scabbard, in green the regimental colours.

Karan Bilimoria12:08

And the Gurkhas love two sports more than anything else football.

Karan Bilimoria12:12

and boxing.

Karan Bilimoria12:14

and in fact they had the regimental boxing championships, and they said right, the boys have to box as well and so I was actually taught how to box at the age of eight, and they had to find another boy who was the same size as me.

Karan Bilimoria12:28

and it ended up being the regimental sergeant major's son.

Karan Bilimoria12:31

and his son was twelve years old, because Gurkhas are quite short.

Karan Bilimoria12:35

And so I as an eight year old had to fight somebody fifty per cent older than me, far tougher than I was, and then we actually had to go out.

Presenter12:38

Far tougher.

Karan Bilimoria12:42

and box in front of the whole battalion as the first exhibition match of the championships.

Presenter12:48

You must have been really terrified.

Karan Bilimoria12:49

It was quite an experience, and it was a draw.

Presenter12:55

So you learn to swim, you learn to camp, you learn I mean, a marvellous, marvellous childhood.

Karan Bilimoria12:59

Is this

Karan Bilimoria13:01

Well all thanks to my father really because he would just take us to just experience everything. He would throw us into things. I mean he was an eight account to the President of India when he was a captain and once you're ADC to the President of India you get lifelong use of the palace's facilities. So I learned how to swim in the President's pool in in Delhi and I remember the people who used to come and swim with us almost every day were Rajiv Gandhi and his brother Sanjay Gandhi, Indira Gandhi's sons. They were always really kind to us and and and it was just great atmosphere. I remember once going in the President's private quarters.

Karan Bilimoria13:39

and I went and sat in the President's chair, and I still remember there were flags on this table.

Karan Bilimoria13:44

And the next thing the President walked into the room, and I just leapt out of the chair, I was so embarrassed, and he just smiled at me as if you know nothing had happened, and I was just so embarrassed I charged out of the room.

Presenter13:56

Record number three.

Karan Bilimoria13:58

Gurkha military music tends to be pipes and drums, and so have selected Amazing Grace performed over here at one of the beating retreats.

Presenter14:56

Amazing Grace performed by the massed bands and pipes of the Household Division from Beating Retreat 2001. So you knew about the the finer things in life, obviously Car and Villemoria. But an army salary couldn't possibly have bought all of these things. Do you think that was one of the motivating factors behind your ambition, that you wanted to make some money for yourself?

Karan Bilimoria15:20

There were several reasons I didn't join the army, and one of them was that I was always worried I'd be

Karan Bilimoria15:24

following in my father's shadow, because I knew even then when he was a brigadier when I had to make the decision that he was on a fast track to probably go

Karan Bilimoria15:32

To the top, and I would always be compared with, Oh, you're not as good as your father, this, you're better than your father. And I saw that happening when I learned how to ski.

Presenter15:36

Yeah.

Karan Bilimoria15:39

I didn't want that all my life. The other thing about the army I realized was that it's very restrictive. It's a wonderful career, but I needed more freedom of opportunity and blue sky and to be in control of my own destiny.

Presenter15:40

Welcome.

Presenter15:51

So you came over here and you got articles with um Ernst ⁇ Young, the accounting firm. I mean, I I do find it fascinating that that was the ambition of a young man with such a glamorous and exotic background that he wanted to be an accountant in London. You know, an awful lot of accountants in London who'd like to go to India and do what you did.

Karan Bilimoria16:10

Well, I remember my grandfather in India, in in in Bombay, sitting me down one day and he took me through the annual reports of some of India's leading companies. He said, Have you noticed that there are more chartered accountants than anyone else on the boards of all these companies? And he was absolutely right.

Presenter16:27

Yes, but in the end it bored you, didn't it?

Karan Bilimoria16:29

Well, it was a way also of coming here and earning my way through my studies, because my father certainly couldn't have afforded to send me to university here for three years.

Speaker 416:37

Mm.

Karan Bilimoria16:38

But what I didn't like was some of the auditing. I liked the fact that you were out at clients and experiencing businesses within businesses, but I found the actual auditing part a little boring. It wasn't for me.

Presenter16:48

So you turned your back on it and you went up to Cambridge to do law instead. And we'll continue with the story in a second, but let's pause for record number four. Dumbana.

Karan Bilimoria16:58

Well, one of my favourite groups is the Rolling Stones, and I've selected Satisfaction.

Speaker 417:09

Sure.

Speaker 417:11

Can you get to know what sentence

Speaker 417:16

Shouldn't cause a tried

Speaker 417:18

Try

Speaker 417:20

Try

Presenter17:32

Rolling Stones and Satisfaction. So, um, a shining career at Cambridge, Curran, where you led the debating team against Oxford, you rode for your college and you captained the polo team. Which did you get your blue for?

Karan Bilimoria17:44

Um, polo. I'd learnt how to play polo in India, thanks to the Indian Army.

Karan Bilimoria17:48

I played for Cambridge.

Karan Bilimoria17:50

and got my what's technically a half blue and polo because um

Presenter17:54

Why is it a half so

Karan Bilimoria17:55

Certain sports are categorised as blues and certain as half-blues. We won against Oxford in the year that I played in the Vasty match. And of course, if you don't play the Vasty match, you don't get your Blue.

Karan Bilimoria18:04

and then I captained the team on our first ever tour to India.

Presenter18:07

And then you shunned the bar having studied law in shunned the bar in the legal sense,'cause you were drinking the beer with the curry, as we know at the time, for business, and you started importing polo sticks. How did you get into that? Why did you think that would work?

Karan Bilimoria18:21

When I was on this tour in India, um the stick makers in Calcutta said, Would you Indian, you live in in England, would you sell some of our sticks for us? I said, Well, give me some samples They said, No, no, you buy them So I bought them, I said, I'll use them anyway. I came back to England.

Karan Bilimoria18:37

And I started selling them.

Karan Bilimoria18:39

And I sold them to Harrods and to Lillywhites and

Karan Bilimoria18:43

I was in business.

Presenter18:43

A pretty niche market, though. It's never going to go very far, perhaps.

Karan Bilimoria18:47

Got me off the ground, but my big idea was the beer idea.

Presenter18:50

Oh yes, but before the beer we're into the jewel jacket song.

Karan Bilimoria18:53

Yes, we did we we had these high fashion jackets that we would sell to boutiques, gold embroidered and sequin jackets. I mean, even in those days they would retail for a thousand pounds, some of them.

Presenter18:54

That is.

Presenter19:03

But again a niche market, really.

Karan Bilimoria19:04

Yes, but all building up experience of dealing with India.

Presenter19:05

But more

Karan Bilimoria19:08

And selling and marketing.

Presenter19:10

Oh, I see. So the others were deliberately kind of nursery slopes for the big idea, weren't they?

Karan Bilimoria19:13

That's the big idea, wasn't it?

Presenter19:14

I see.

Presenter19:16

So then you moved on the beer idea. You start to import it from India. I mean, let's talk about those early years, the five years between nineteen ninety and nineteen ninety five, when it wasn't necessarily taking off, was it?

Karan Bilimoria19:28

It was really, really tough.

Karan Bilimoria19:30

And my partner, in fact, bailed out, um, in nineteen ninety five.

Karan Bilimoria19:34

He decided to leave. He just didn't think it was going anywhere. I tried to persuade him to stay and uh he's we're still the best of friends.

Presenter19:41

So you were left alone, what, in one little van jugging around?

Karan Bilimoria19:41

Left to

Presenter19:44

Always

Karan Bilimoria19:45

Well, we started, the two of us, with nothing, and I remember I borrowed two hundred and ninety five pounds from him to buy the first company car a battered, green, old citron de cheveaux.

Karan Bilimoria19:58

which we named Albert.

Karan Bilimoria20:00

And we used to drive round an Albert, and you could literally see the road through the floor of the car.

Presenter20:04

Was Albair strong enough to carry these crates of

Karan Bilimoria20:04

What's out there?

Karan Bilimoria20:06

Well, Albert required push starting most days, and could carry exactly fifteen cases of cobra. We would drive a little bit ahead of the restaurants in the delivery vehicle, because we were so embarrassed about it, delivering the most expensive ever Indian beer, and we'd walk the few extra steps to the restaurant.

Presenter20:22

So nobody can see it.

Karan Bilimoria20:23

Good head

Presenter20:24

But had had Albert bitten the dust by the time your partner buried out.

Karan Bilimoria20:27

Oh yes, yes. By then we'd moved on.

Presenter20:29

Sounds pretty grim, has to be said.

Karan Bilimoria20:31

Today was great fun as well.

Presenter20:32

Hmm.

Presenter20:33

Okay, next piece of music, number five.

Karan Bilimoria20:35

I was introduced to Santana by the officers in my father's regiment when I was a young boy.

Karan Bilimoria20:41

And I've always just admired the music. Whenever he's in Britain I try and go and see him play live, because I find him so inspiring and

Karan Bilimoria20:48

And also the music is a combination.

Karan Bilimoria20:51

Of sort of modern rock music, but also bringing in percussion and Latin music. It's a wonderful fusion.

Presenter21:29

Santana and Samba Pati. So there you were in this hugely competitive market. It's the mid nineties. Your partner had lost heart and bailed out, as you say. You were often alone with the Cobra.

Presenter21:41

How did you do it? What was the quantum leap?

Karan Bilimoria21:44

We used to go to the Indian restaurants door to door and say, Here we are, best ever Indian beer, try it and a lot of them would say, Sorry, don't drink.

Karan Bilimoria21:52

A lot of them, for religious reasons, don't drink, but they say look.

Karan Bilimoria21:56

Doesn't matter that we don't drink. It's our customers that matter.

Karan Bilimoria21:59

Leave us a couple of bottles. We'll try it with our regulars. The regulars like it.

Karan Bilimoria22:04

We're putting our first orders.

Karan Bilimoria22:05

If our wider customers like it, we'll reorder, and I'll never forget that thanks to support of the Indian restaurants we are where we are today.

Presenter22:12

Huh.

Karan Bilimoria22:12

And of course then your product's got to deliver. And we're lucky that we got almost a hundred percent reorder rate from day one.

Presenter22:17

But you were doing that from day one in those first five years. I want to know why it took until nineteen ninety five for this

Karan Bilimoria22:24

Well, the big difference was actually building a team.

Karan Bilimoria22:27

And actually, putting a little bit more money into marketing than we could before, having built the foundation.

Presenter22:32

It's marketed.

Karan Bilimoria22:34

Well, it starts with the product. I really believe you've got to get the product right.

Presenter22:36

Of course, but once you've got it as you say, you can go on feeding it in and hoping that somebody tells their cousin about it or whatever. But the fact that you've you've got to go big on marketing.

Karan Bilimoria22:38

And as you said

Karan Bilimoria22:45

You you have it's marketing, sales, distribution, people.

Presenter22:48

Yeah.

Karan Bilimoria22:48

Yeah. And I think of the product that people are the most important.

Presenter22:51

Because I know you went to some of the biggest advertising agencies in the land and you spent big money on it.

Karan Bilimoria22:57

Eventually, yes. I I really believe that you get what you pay for.

Presenter23:01

Yeah. No.

Karan Bilimoria23:01

Gosh, you're using sachis? Can you afford sachis?

Presenter23:04

That would have been five six years ago.

Karan Bilimoria23:07

But they were brilliant, the creativity was just amazing.

Presenter23:09

So the top tips are what, you know, to young businessmen listening out there is is get your product right. I mean, spot the gap in the market, get your product right. Build yourself a team and start marketing it well. And and what? Don't dilute your equity whatever you do. That's that's really your main tip, isn't it?

Karan Bilimoria23:27

I really believe that there's no shortcut to researching your marketplace thoroughly. It is about producing something that's different and better and changing your marketplace forever. It's about constantly being innovative and creative. The other very important factor is to always constantly look ahead.

Karan Bilimoria23:44

My mother produced a pile of papers the other day and she said, I found these, I don't know where, they've been here for years.

Karan Bilimoria23:51

And in amongst his papers was a spreadsheet.

Karan Bilimoria23:54

That it actually

Karan Bilimoria23:55

I made the spreadsheet when I was at the brewery in Bangalore in nineteen ninety, before the first shipment was sent out to Britain.

Karan Bilimoria24:02

And I had done a month by month, container by container forecast for five years.

Karan Bilimoria24:07

and had never sold a bottle of beer in my life before.

Karan Bilimoria24:10

And we actually beat that forecast and and last year I was flying over the Grand Canyon.

Karan Bilimoria24:15

And literally over the Grand Canyon I sketched out our twenty ten vision.

Karan Bilimoria24:19

You've got to be passionate and proud of your product, and it's not just me, I would hope that anyone in my company would find that feeling of pride and passion. It makes it easier with their

Presenter24:28

It also it also helps to have the kind of confidence that you have about these things, doesn't it? I mean, that's from everything you've said, innate, a determination and born of a confidence.

Karan Bilimoria24:28

It also

Karan Bilimoria24:39

Yes, absolutely.

Presenter24:40

Record number six.

Karan Bilimoria24:42

Bedors, Takata.

Karan Bilimoria24:44

We played this um at um

Karan Bilimoria24:47

At one of our weddings, when I when I got married to my wife, and this was the music we walked out of the church to.

Presenter24:52

One of your weddings. How many weddings did you have?

Karan Bilimoria24:56

Think about six.

Karan Bilimoria24:58

Here in England and in South Africa and in India, all within the space of three weeks.

Presenter25:55

Ian Tracy and the BBC Philemonic conducted by Jan Pascal Tortellier playing part of Vidor's Takata, the fifth movement of Vidor's symphony for organ number five, played at uh one of your six weddings, Caran Birlemoria. Um Heather, your wife is a South African, so you're a Parsi, married to a South African, living in Parsons Green in Fulham.

Presenter26:18

I mean, it is a wonderfully sort of late twentieth century mix of the exotic and the modern cosmopolitan, isn't it? You've taken British nationality.

Karan Bilimoria26:26

I think

Presenter26:27

Why have you done that?

Karan Bilimoria26:29

Uh this is my home.

Karan Bilimoria26:31

This is my business headquarters. This is where I met my wife. And what I've seen in in Britain is when I came here as a student when I was nineteen,

Karan Bilimoria26:42

My family and friends said to me then, Just remember, you'll never get to the top.

Karan Bilimoria26:47

Because there's a glass ceiling. As a foreigner, you will not be allowed to go to the top. And you know, they probably about twenty-five years ago, they were probably right.

Karan Bilimoria26:53

But I've seen the transformation here. I mean, it's it's just been phenomenal the way this country has now become a real meritocracy and where I believe now that anyone

Karan Bilimoria27:03

regardless of race or religion or background, can get as far as they want to and their abilities can take them. And it's absolutely tremendous, the transformation that's taken place.

Presenter27:14

So what's the grand plan that you made over the Grand Canyon? What are you going to do? You going to float this company?

Presenter27:19

You're gonna sell it?

Karan Bilimoria27:21

I don't want to sell it, no.

Presenter27:22

But you might float it.

Karan Bilimoria27:24

That's always an option. Yes, we have plans to float it when the timing is right and when we think we'll get the right valuation.

Karan Bilimoria27:30

We'll probably float it here on the London Stock Exchange. But we're in no hurry to.

Presenter27:34

I call number seven.

Karan Bilimoria27:36

My parents from the time I can remember have always loved jazz, and I've been brought up through my childhood listening to jazz. And one of my

Karan Bilimoria27:47

Favourite memories is

Karan Bilimoria27:49

It's seeing my parents dance to jazz, they just dance so beautifully. And I've selected Louis Armstrong and What a Wonderful World.

Karan Bilimoria27:58

'Cause it's so relevant to what's happening today as well.

Presenter28:00

But you you you've also selected a special, a very special version of it, haven't you?

Karan Bilimoria28:04

Yes, where he talks at the beginning, and what he's saying is just so appropriate, I suppose at any time, but particularly with what's happening in the world to day.

Speaker 228:17

Some of you young folks been saying to me

Speaker 228:20

A box.

Speaker 228:22

What do you mean? What a wonderful world.

Speaker 228:26

How about all them walls all over the place?

Speaker 228:30

You call them wonderful?

Speaker 228:32

And how about hunger and pollution?

Speaker 228:36

There ain't someone who lead them.

Speaker 228:39

But how about listening to old Pops for a minute?

Speaker 228:43

Seems to me it ain't the world that's so bad.

Speaker 228:47

But what we are doing to it

Speaker 228:49

And all I'm saying is, see what a wonderful world.

Speaker 228:55

It would be if only we'd give it a chance. I see.

Speaker 229:01

Green

Speaker 229:04

Bedroses, too.

Speaker 229:07

I've seen them.

Speaker 229:10

Love me and you.

Speaker 229:13

And I think to myself.

Presenter29:16

I'm Louis Armstrong and what a wonderful world. Um all that army training, Curran, um means you'll manage very easily on your desert island, doesn't it? I shouldn't think you've got a problem coping physically anyway at all, have you?

Karan Bilimoria29:30

My father calls my my brother and me wolves in sheep's clothing.

Karan Bilimoria29:35

Well, I'm sure it's going to be a challenge.

Presenter29:38

A challenge, but one you can meet, I'm sure.

Karan Bilimoria29:40

Gotta deal with it.

Presenter29:42

I see your room.

Presenter29:43

Your last piece of music was played at a a ceremony held in India last year when all of you successful people who'd left the country went back, didn't you, to um a a great gathering together of the diaspora, as it were. Um said to be some twenty million of you, I think, across the West, across Canada and here and South Africa and the States, entering the so-called rich lists. I mean, what does that mean? I mean, the implication is obviously it's it's easier to make money outside India than it is staying at home.

Karan Bilimoria30:15

Well, India is, really, going places as a country.

Karan Bilimoria30:19

The attitude in India, the India I was brought up in until the age of 19, was an India which was insular, inward-looking.

Karan Bilimoria30:26

and protective.

Karan Bilimoria30:28

The India today

Karan Bilimoria30:29

Is far more outward-looking. It's reaching out. And one of the indications of this was that a couple of years ago, the Indian government said, well,

Karan Bilimoria30:38

All these Indians living outside India, the twenty million people of Indian origin living outside India.

Karan Bilimoria30:44

and earlier people like me were considered

Karan Bilimoria30:46

A brain drain when I I left for my studies abroad, considered deserting the motherland.

Karan Bilimoria30:52

They said, well, that attitude's got to change. Some of these nonresident Indians are doing very well now. Let's embrace their success. Let's encourage them to come back and visit India. And yes, India wants nonresident Indians to invest back in India, but more importantly,

Karan Bilimoria31:09

It wants to share knowledge, share experiences.

Karan Bilimoria31:13

And the government with this non-resident Indians, um they've started holding an annual day.

Karan Bilimoria31:20

On the ninth of January.

Karan Bilimoria31:22

called a non-resident Indian Day, and the 9th of January is very significant because that is the day that Mahatma Gandhi returned from South Africa.

Karan Bilimoria31:29

as a non-resident Indian, back to India.

Karan Bilimoria31:33

and at the opening ceremony last year.

Karan Bilimoria31:36

Rabbi Shankar played.

Karan Bilimoria31:37

With Bismillah Khan, and it was the most magical, magical ceremony.

Karan Bilimoria31:42

With this great artist symbolizing India opening up, India going into the future.

Presenter32:18

Raga Jug by Ravishanka. Now if you could only take one of those eight records, which one would you take?

Karan Bilimoria32:27

It's a very, very difficult choice to make. And

Presenter32:29

Isn't making

Karan Bilimoria32:32

I would probably take Louis Armstrong's What a Wonderful World, because that song has so much meaning in it, and it would always remind me that we actually do live in a wonderful, beautiful world.

Karan Bilimoria32:42

and we take it so much for granted.

Presenter32:45

What about your book?

Karan Bilimoria32:47

I've been brought up actually worshiping in churches and mosques and Sikh codwadas and Parsi fire temples. I feel equally at home in any place of worship, so I'd be quite happy taking the Bible.

Karan Bilimoria32:56

But if I am given a choice of just one religious book, I would take the Guthas of Zarathustra, which are translations of our ancient Persian Zoroastrian prayers.

Presenter33:06

And you get the complete works of Shakespeare as well, and you're allowed one other book in that case if you're taking that instead of the Bible.

Karan Bilimoria33:11

I would take Paolo Coelho's The Alchemist.

Karan Bilimoria33:14

To me it's alchemist is someone who turns lead into gold.

Karan Bilimoria33:19

So you're starting with with something.

Karan Bilimoria33:22

Small and creating something big. You're starting with small beginnings. It's like entrepreneurship. It's like our vision, our motto, which is to aspire and achieve against all odds with integrity. And it's those sort of messages that you get in the Alchemist. It's about when you're trying to do better things. It's amazing how the forces of the universe seem to be there to help you to do it. And it's when you do better things, you seem to make things better for other people around you as well.

Presenter33:48

And one luxury you get.

Karan Bilimoria33:50

The luxury I would like is to take the complete series of yes minister and yes prime minister, he bemused.

Presenter33:59

Karam Villimoria, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Karan Bilimoria34:02

Thank you.

Speaker 434:11

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.