Jack Vettriano

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and four, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My castaway this week is a painter. You won't see his work in public galleries, but you will find it in shops all along the High Street, in framed prints, posters, coasters, on greeting cards, even biscuit tins. His romantic images of men and women from an era that feels close but is still distant are the most popular in Britain to day.

Presenter0:50

Born in Scotland, the son of a coal miner, he taught himself to paint, copying the works of the great masters. At the age of thirty seven he submitted two pictures to the Royal Scottish Academy's summer exhibition. They sold within fifteen minutes, and his life changed forever.

Presenter1:07

The fact that the critics don't care for him doesn't worry him too much. I'd rather my paintings sold to ordinary people, he says, than be stacked in a storehouse in the National Gallery. He is Jack Vetriano. And just in case, Jack, anyone listening thinks they don't know your work, we know that they did. Just help me explain it to him. It's the singing butler, it's the beach, it's the couple in evening dress, it's the umbrellas.

Jack Vettriano1:28

Yeah.

Jack Vettriano1:30

Yeah, often wh socially um people will say to me, and what do you do? and I say, Well, I paint and they say, What's your name? and I say Jack Vetriano and they say, No, I don't know your work and I say you know the the butler with the umbrella on the beach and they say, Oh, yes, all right, oh, you're him Oh, I thought he was dead

Presenter1:48

But it is the biggest selling print in Britain.

Jack Vettriano1:49

Damn the

Jack Vettriano1:51

Well, that's what they tell me here.

Presenter1:52

And the original is about to go up for auction. They say it's going to fetch $200,000. Do we believe this?

Jack Vettriano1:58

Well, um that's the estimate Sotheby's put on it. I suspect it may go for more. Some woman will say to her wealthy husband, Look, I must have this. Well, two women will do that and there'll be a dog fight in the sale room. That's what I feel will happen.

Presenter2:11

Do you stand to gain from this? Because it's not yours, is it?

Jack Vettriano2:12

Because it's not yours, isn't it?

Presenter2:16

Where did the idea for it come from?

Jack Vettriano2:18

I think my thinking behind it was that this was some kind of eccentric who had been to a ball and he had come home but he wasn't ready for sleep yet. So he he called his butler and said, Come with us and the butler drove them to the beach and then came and of course the the curious thing is I didn't have a title for the painting and I thought well what are they dancing to if it's you know if it's not music and I thought well it's a singing butler you know and and hence you know

Presenter2:43

But we'd never know he was singing, would we?

Jack Vettriano2:45

Well well that his his arm his arm um covers his his face so so you've no idea.

Presenter2:48

So

Presenter2:50

Yeah.

Jack Vettriano2:50

But, uh, you know, a legend was born, if you like.

Presenter2:53

Indeed it was. But is it the kind of world you want to live in?

Jack Vettriano2:57

I suspect it is, yeah.

Presenter2:58

That's your fantasy, really? I think so. And it has to be said that we've talked about the rosy side of the fantasy, but there's also the kind of noir side, isn't there? Well, the sleazy side, really. Is sleaze a word you would accept for some of your other

Jack Vettriano3:09

Yeah.

Jack Vettriano3:11

And I would, I would.

Presenter3:13

So we're talking stocking tops, red lipstick, women in state of undressing. Men look men always fully dressed, it hasn't

Jack Vettriano3:16

Men always bullied.

Presenter3:22

Wait a minute

Presenter3:23

All men desire these things.

Jack Vettriano3:23

I suspect um they do, Sue, and if they're not admitting it, um uh you know, they'll just decide to keep it to themselves.

Presenter3:32

That's my

Jack Vettriano3:32

That was my feeling.

Presenter3:33

I see. And of course actually you're in those paintings as well, aren't you? I mean it's more than a fancy you put yourself in there.

Jack Vettriano3:39

Well, I I do, but I would hate anybody to think that I do this because I get off on it. I'm in them because I'm there and I'm cheap.

Jack Vettriano3:47

And so usually when I have a girl round to to take photographs over for the paintings, I'll say to her, Look, take a few of me. But I don't actually think, Ooh, don't you look good in this one, Jack? I I just d I don't see myself in them any more, I just see a person.

Presenter4:01

Moody, mysterious, brooding.

Jack Vettriano4:03

Sexy.

Presenter4:04

I see.

Presenter4:06

We will talk more about this, but we shall pause for your first record what is it?

Jack Vettriano4:09

I could have chosen any one of Joni Mitchell's songs, I'm sure, but this one's Shades of Scarlet Conquering is about the kind of woman I think that I would be attracted to. You know, she's very cool and she's very calm, and she is, of course, Scarlett Bahara, hence the title of the song. And you know, that kind of woman, I think, if I'm honest, has always rung a bell for me.

Speaker 34:36

Out of the fire like Catholics say

Speaker 34:41

Come Scarlet in her deep complaint

Speaker 34:45

Mimicking tendernessy sea

Speaker 34:51

In sentimental movie.

Speaker 34:55

A cellular ride who close to town

Speaker 35:01

Cinematic lovers sway

Presenter5:03

Joni Mitchell and Shades of Scarlet conquering. Scarlett O'Hara, the sort of woman you might fancy, you say, typical of the sort of woman you paint in these darker pictures we're talking about, because nothing submissive or vulnerable about her. She in a lot of these other paintings is preparing. There's a kind of sense of ritual, isn't there, of her getting ready, whether she's in the bath or she's putting her stockings on.

Speaker 15:25

To soon.

Presenter5:28

I mean, what about yourself? Have you always sort of stood in front of the mirror and prepared yourself?

Jack Vettriano5:33

Um, I I don't so much now, but I remember when I was young and and coming home from the the colliery and uh

Jack Vettriano5:40

you know, put the four tops on in my bedroom and stand there and get ready. And I could see my friend getting off the bus that he came to collect you know, and the four tops would be blaring out and you'd be putting on your little knitted tie. And I loved that kind of ritual. And what we're really doing is we're preparing for that a ritual of courtship. I personally have always enjoyed seeing the transformation that that women make with with the application of make up and and with their finery. I do think you know the application of lipstick is a particularly essential thing.

Presenter6:11

Hmm.

Jack Vettriano6:11

I I could watch that a few times over.

Presenter6:15

And when you were preparing yourself with the little knitted ties, you say, so we're back, what, in in in in the sixties, I should think, where were you going?

Jack Vettriano6:21

I think we

Jack Vettriano6:23

I used to go to the Wraith Ballroom in Kirkcorrie two nights a week, Friday and Saturday, and it was a lovely ballroom with a very art deco inside. And my friend, who was quite a celebrity because he was on the books of Rangers Football Club, and of course in the town I grew up in, everybody knew this, so I was always happy to be seen with him. It was great fun. And we used to go up onto the balcony and pick out the girls that we wanted to dance with, and then, you know, when they played Slow Records, we'd run downstairs and get them up on the dance floor. I mean, it was all just great fun.

Presenter6:54

But but you pull the birds easily.

Jack Vettriano6:56

Well, he did. He did. I was never greatly successful, but I was swept along in his wake and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Presenter7:05

Record number two.

Jack Vettriano7:06

My choice here is one by the animals, the House of the Rising Sun. Now this takes me back to the first time I ever went dancing. I was 14 year old in the local drill hole where the Territorial Army used to be based. They had what they called the Jazz Club, which was odd because I never played jazz. But I can remember going in there and being absolutely overawed. Condensation was running down the walls, the House of the Rising Sun playing. And there was these women with beehive hairdoos clinging on round men's necks. And I just thought, oh, this is a world that I just so much want to be part of. But even then, the little businessman inside of me was thinking, oh, and there's an empty bottle. It wasn't licensed, but if you took back the Coca-Cola bottle, you got threepence on it. And I used to run around and pick up everybody's empties. And, you know, I used to go out with 10 shillings and come back with 30 bob. It was fabulous.

Speaker 38:02

Down here!

Speaker 38:03

Holy faith, yeah.

Speaker 38:08

In the suit case.

Speaker 38:11

Cheryl

Speaker 38:14

And the only turn he satisfied.

Speaker 38:20

It's when he's on a trunk

Presenter8:25

The Animals and House of the Rising Sun. So you were born in the early fifties, plain old Jack Hoggin, son of a fife miner. I presume that was what you had to do, really. I mean, that that's what was you were predestined to get into the industry, mining industry.

Speaker 38:32

Subscribe.

Jack Vettriano8:40

Yeah, I was, yeah. I managed to get a trade, which I was absolutely no good at. I had no desire to do it, but

Presenter8:46

Is it a mining engineer?

Jack Vettriano8:47

Yes, I'm an engineer.

Presenter8:48

Did you ever go down the pit? Did you ever mire?

Jack Vettriano8:49

There are

Presenter8:50

Yeah but

Jack Vettriano8:50

Yeah, but um I wouldn't want anybody thinking that I was lying on my side shoveling coal. I mean I was an apprentice, all I did was carry somebody's tool bag. It wasn't hard work at all.

Presenter8:59

But it's what you would aspire to. I mean, it was a very masculine thing.

Jack Vettriano9:02

Well, that's right. I mean, I can remember arranging for a girl to actually come to the pit and collect me and I particularly dirtied my face and stuff because I thought that this looked just so so good, you know, me me coming out the pit head all sort of dirty and you know now I look back and I just think, Oh, my God

Presenter9:20

What about at school? What were you like? I mean, did you did you try to work or?

Jack Vettriano9:24

Um no, I'm afraid that gets back to the role model thing. The people who I who I tried to emulate were the local sort of terry boys and the local hard men and and that was all I really wanted to be and guys who had brains we we just called them snubs. I mean we just couldn't you know we couldn't have anything to do with them because they were actually trying to better themselves and and I look back with horror at that but you know that's the way it was and you know I don't apologize for it.

Presenter9:47

No, but but did you shine in the art class? I mean, were you showing any talent that we spotted?

Jack Vettriano9:47

But did you

Jack Vettriano9:49

It was my best subject and um I remember I think once that was a time when you were graded A to D and I remember picking up a B plus for art and thinking, mm

Jack Vettriano10:01

Um maybe I could do something here, but I think at that time you needed three O grades to get into art college and there was no question of my getting the other two.

Presenter10:08

Hmm.

Jack Vettriano10:09

Um

Presenter10:10

So so so the idea of you breaking out of this kind of society that you've described would not have occurred to you.

Jack Vettriano10:16

It didn't occur to me in the slightest. And that came about because I'm I I met a girl who gave me a box of watercolours.

Presenter10:25

How old were you?

Jack Vettriano10:26

I was twenty-one then.

Presenter10:27

And how did she know that you should

Jack Vettriano10:29

Well, she she she saw some some rough drawings I had done, you know, like on the backs of envelopes and stuff, you know, because I always used to like to sit in my bedroom and do a bit of sketching.

Presenter10:38

How do you not?

Jack Vettriano10:38

And she just said, Look, you should colour those in.

Presenter10:40

And so she gave you the watercolours and were hammered.

Jack Vettriano10:43

Well, I I then decided that I should be a real man and buy oils.

Jack Vettriano10:48

Um no, the truth was watercolours are very difficult because you get one try, you get one shot and then it dries and that's it. With oils you can scrape it off all day, so you can make all the mistakes you like. Anyway, I bought one of those starter packs of eight tubes and three brushes and I primed some hardboard and took the hardboard up to my bedroom and you know started to um start to try and paint.

Presenter11:10

And what did it do for you? Did you feel in that way?

Jack Vettriano11:10

And what did you

Jack Vettriano11:12

Well, I I felt I felt very good and um I mean I tried I tried to have a wee smock and stuff, you know, that I could put brushes in. You know, if people came to the house I would walk through the living room with brushes in my teeth and stuff to let them know what I was doing upstairs, you know. Um that sort of thing. Um but my father used to go off his trolley because um the place the house was stinking with turpentine. And it wasn't

Presenter11:30

And it wasn't a proper job. I mean, if you thought you were going to make a living out of this, you've got another thing coming.

Jack Vettriano11:33

Yeah, yeah. I mean he's used to laugh at it, you know, he couldn't take it seriously at all.

Presenter11:39

Record number three.

Jack Vettriano11:41

The first time I saw the beer perform this was um

Jack Vettriano11:44

The London Palladium, and it's called Twist and Shout.

Jack Vettriano11:49

I think that anybody who saw that Palladium performance will not forget it, the way those mop heads shook and stuff. And you know, I just thought, my God. And, you know, coming back to Desert Island thing, it's the one upbeat track I've got on the Desert Island. So I just thought, well, let's go for an old Beatles one and I can get my cardboard guitar and stand there and woo!

Speaker 312:08

Shake it up, baby. Twist that child. Twist and child. Come on, come on, come on, come on, baby. Come on, baby. Come on, I'm working on that.

Speaker 312:21

Work it on out there, you twisty little girl

Speaker 312:25

Twist and all girls You know you twist so far

Speaker 312:28

Twist so fine, come on and twist a little closer Twist a little closer Let me know that you're mine Oh you're mine but

Presenter12:38

The Beatles and Twist and Shout. So, Jack Betriano, what y you say nobody believed in you and your father thought it was all a nonsense, but

Presenter12:47

Did you ever feel during that period of time that you had a kind of vocation?

Presenter12:52

It was that too big a word for what he might have felt.

Jack Vettriano12:54

Well, I wouldn't have understood that word so then, but um no, I I felt I had something, if only a just a tiny a tiny sort of feeling, if you like, and I was able to get things down on these boards that

Presenter12:56

Put

Jack Vettriano13:09

That surprised me and gave me enough confidence to keep on going. It wasn't like um, you know, the boys' brigade where you go for six weeks and then say, Oh Christ, I hate that uniform, you know.

Presenter13:14

Nope.

Presenter13:19

So you saw something in yourself.

Jack Vettriano13:19

So you saw it.

Jack Vettriano13:21

I did.

Presenter13:22

You certainly had enough confidence to start you you chucked in the mining, engineering, you did a variety of other jobs. If we sort of spool on to when you were about twenty four, you went on what you now call your grand tour.

Jack Vettriano13:32

Well, well, it wasn't hellishly gra grand, but um, yeah, the the the girl who bought me the watercolours, she had also said to me, You know, if you don't get some qualification, you're going to live and die in this town. And, you know, I did take that very seriously. And I went back to college, I think, when I was twenty-one, twenty-two, and managed to get some qualifications. And I decided that I'd go and try and live in London again. So I had my paints with me, and you know, every weekend I used to go to the Tate Gallery, National Gallery, Courtauld Institute, and I got very immersed in the world of art.

Presenter14:07

Did you start copying the masters then?

Jack Vettriano14:08

Yes, I did. I did. And again, I did that for two reasons. One was that I wanted to find out how they did things. And two is that

Jack Vettriano14:17

I never had any belief in my own compositions. I never had any ideas. So, yeah, I mean, I I used to sit in my flat in Forest Gate and and and copy.

Presenter14:25

But what did it teach you copying them?

Jack Vettriano14:27

Well, this is just a quick example. If you're going to paint a sky, you mix blue and white.

Jack Vettriano14:32

And if you want to mix a stormy sky, add some black. Wrong. You know, that that will be disastrous. To the white, you've got to add cream, you've got to add a bit of pink, to the blue, you've got to add a bit of green, and you don't use black, try brown, that's better. You know, so I mean, by copying people like money, you actually find these things out. You know, because it's all

Presenter14:50

But who did you enjoy copying most?

Jack Vettriano14:53

I would have to say that I enjoyed money because it wasn't a figurative painter. His figures were tiny and they were in fields and stuff. So you could get away with just a daub of pink, you know, and a wee bit of a little white bonnet and there you go. That's a woman in the foreground. All I really wanted was a finish. I didn't want to have to spend three weeks on a painting. I don't think the amateur artist does want to do that. They want some kind of result that people can go, ooh, you you know, you you're coming along fine.

Presenter15:17

Yeah, yeah.

Jack Vettriano15:18

Um so

Presenter15:19

But by contrast, who did you find most difficult then to emulate?

Jack Vettriano15:23

I think Caravaggio is very difficult. I mean, there there is a copy of Caravaggio's Fortune Teller out there somewhere and

Jack Vettriano15:29

You know, it will surface some day and there's nothing surer but I'm going to hate seeing it again.

Presenter15:34

What did you sign these things?

Jack Vettriano15:34

What did you say? I I signed my name Hoggin. That's what I was called then, Jack Hoggin.

Presenter15:40

We shall come to Vetriano, but let's have record number four.

Jack Vettriano15:43

I discovered Bob Dylan, I think, in my early twenties and

Jack Vettriano15:47

And I think that his music was the first time that I ever seriously sat and listened to lyrics.

Jack Vettriano15:53

and actually begun to think about

Jack Vettriano15:56

What these lyrics meant to me, I think some of the lyrics in it are just fabulous. I mean, who would ever think of calling a car a chrome horse? And, you know, you sit there with your diplomat and on his shoulder is a Siamese cat. And I mean, it's very easy with Bob Dylan to visualise all of this. You know, being a painter, you really do love that kind of idea that the the lyrics actually almost can paint a picture for you.

Speaker 316:21

You used to be

Speaker 316:25

So amuse!

Speaker 316:27

And Napoleon in rags!

Speaker 316:29

And the language that he used.

Speaker 316:32

Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse.

Speaker 316:37

When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose.

Speaker 316:42

You're invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal.

Presenter16:49

Bob Dylan and Like a Rolling Stone. So Jack Vitriano, rather like Dylan, you did your drifting, but then you settled down. You went back up to Scotland, to Kierkodi, you married, you settled down capital S, capital D, really. Did you decide then not to follow this artistic calling? Did you push?

Jack Vettriano17:06

Well I it really was put in the back burner. We were married seven years and for four of those it was on the back burner because I think we moved five times in four years trying to get up the housing ladder. And and we'd found ourselves in quite a nice semi-detached Edwardian place and and I had a a garden shed specially built for my needs as a painter and I I started to paint you know whenever I could.

Presenter17:30

So you shut yourself shut yourself in there.

Jack Vettriano17:30

So you fetch the

Jack Vettriano17:31

I I did a bit, yeah, and um and I started to really start to enjoy it much more than I had ever done. But I started to I think become a bit frustrated that these weren't my ideas at all. And you know, I just started to think very seriously about the things that actually meant anything to me as a person. And I started to get very selfish with my time and started to spend more and more time in the garden shed.

Presenter17:58

So total self-indulgence.

Jack Vettriano17:58

Two.

Jack Vettriano18:00

It it it was a bit, yeah, and I think that, you know, that that contributed fairly well to to the breakdown of the relationship.

Presenter18:06

And in the end you divorce, but

Jack Vettriano18:08

Yeah.

Presenter18:09

I think contemporaneously you sold a couple of pictures, which was a great turning point, wasn't it? Who were they?

Jack Vettriano18:13

Yeah. One was called um Saturday Night and it was a couple in a dance hall, you know, and and the guy was smoking and chatting to her. Another one was um was a woman in a white slip and it was a woman standing with picture frames behind her in a petticoat. I mean, you may remember petticoats.

Presenter18:30

Indeed, I think.

Jack Vettriano18:30

And I put them into Royal Scottish Academy. I thought.

Presenter18:34

Into the summer exhibition.

Jack Vettriano18:35

Into the summer exhibition.

Presenter18:36

But I mean you had to be quite good to get them in.

Jack Vettriano18:38

Well well, uh somebody gave me a great tip and that was make them small because Archimedesians steal all the wall space. And I did make them small and they were hung. Um but artists aren't allowed to go to the opening. It's just the Archimedicians and their friends. So I managed to gate crash it and you know looked at mine and there are two red dots on them and I thought my God they've sold and

Jack Vettriano19:01

What I should say here, so is that I had decided that these weren't copies, these were my ideas, and that what I would do would be I'd take my grandfather's name and sign them Vertriano.

Presenter19:12

This was the turning point that you'd stopped copying, and the minute you started doing your own work, you used

Jack Vettriano19:15

You've got to do

Jack Vettriano19:17

I used my grandfather's name.

Presenter19:18

Vetriana

Jack Vettriano19:19

Yeah.

Presenter19:19

Which is it Italian in origin, obviously. But this sort of Italian immigrants to Scotland.

Jack Vettriano19:20

Obviously.

Jack Vettriano19:24

That's right, yeah, yeah, Dundee.

Presenter19:24

Yeah.

Jack Vettriano19:25

I think it's probably the best decision I've ever made because it is it is a great name.

Presenter19:30

Yes, yeah, absolutely. But this obviously, therefore, that moment and those paintings with that name on symbolize this great watershed. That's why I felt. That's why I felt. And and and did was that accompanied by what, a sense of liberation, a sense of

Jack Vettriano19:38

That's what I felt. That's what I felt.

Jack Vettriano19:45

Well well, well, very quickly after that, um my wife and I separated and I moved to a small flat in Edinburgh and became a full-time painter. I stopped working.

Presenter19:54

You became Jack Vitri.

Jack Vettriano19:55

I I became the very man and started to grow my hair long and become a wee bit of a sort of dandy, you know, um around town. But that was when the sense of liberation came in and it kicked in big time. I've never worked so hard in my life. I mean I worked very hard, but I also started to play pretty hard as well. Those were very heavy days.

Presenter20:12

But that was good for inspiring the painting, Presumer.

Jack Vettriano20:14

Of course, yeah. Very heady days.

Presenter20:17

What are you confessing to here, Jack? You're going to emphasizing all of this, right?

Jack Vettriano20:18

Jack, you're going to be able to do that.

Jack Vettriano20:21

I've done a few odd things in the name of research, and that's all I'll say.

Presenter20:26

Echo number five.

Jack Vettriano20:28

Record number five is Page forty three by David Crosby and Graham Nash. Page forty three is about living for the moment. You know, your moment comes very briefly and you must go for it and you must dive right in there.

Speaker 320:46

It'll make you all.

Speaker 320:51

River

Speaker 320:53

Yeah.

Speaker 320:54

Yeah.

Speaker 321:00

Yeah.

Speaker 321:01

Dive right into it.

Speaker 321:06

L T

Presenter21:12

Dave Crosby and Graham Nash and page forty-three. The rest is history in many ways, Jack. I mean, meteoric rise you've had over the past fifteen years, one-man exhibitions, first in Scotland and then in Hong Kong, South Africa, New York people queue up, don't they, to snap up your paintings? Jack Nicholson collects them, uh Terence Conrad collects them.

Presenter21:35

Can you possibly explain the appeal of your work? I mean, what two sentences would you give to say why people immediately want it so much?

Jack Vettriano21:43

I think top of the list would be people can identify with them.

Jack Vettriano21:47

Because I suspect that

Jack Vettriano21:49

Many people have either been in situations I paint or they should as hell like to try them. And I think that when people can identify with something, you know, they'll champion it.

Speaker 121:54

Yeah.

Presenter21:55

And I think

Presenter21:59

Yeah.

Jack Vettriano21:59

And I think that's the appeal.

Presenter22:01

But there is a dark side to it. And as we've said quite explicitly there are pictures of your erotic fantasies. And yet you're you know quite a private person. I mean how much does it worry you to have you know your fantasies up on the wall there and people talking about it's quite exposing.

Jack Vettriano22:20

Well well, I just think that if you're going to do something, do it. Don't faff around. And and I do believe in honesty, you know. So I just think that here's a slice of my life and like it or you don't like it.

Presenter22:26

You know?

Presenter22:30

Well, yes, but I suppose that to to a small extent it's it it might give us the impression that, you know, we wouldn't want to meet you on a dark night.

Jack Vettriano22:37

There might be an edge of fear, but it's not enough not to meet me on a dark night.

Presenter22:40

Can you

Jack Vettriano22:41

I've always tried to um you know maintain that um

Jack Vettriano22:46

That many of the people in these situations are there, it's their choosing to be there.

Jack Vettriano22:51

You know, and these people in the dark interiors are not the happiest people on earth. Time and again they're driven to the same bars to make the same mistakes. You know, I try to show that, that that this isn't real fun, this stuff. You know, I mean, you're gonna have your heart broken, you're gonna have your heart ripped out sometimes, but that's the price that some of us will pay for love.

Speaker 123:03

Yeah.

Jack Vettriano23:11

Forward slash sex.

Presenter23:13

Hmm. Well, it's it's it's I'm going to try a bit of dangerous armchair psychology now. I wonder when you mentioned love as opposed to sex. I mean, I wonder if you've

Presenter23:23

ever been in love, and if you were in love, would you then have these kinds of fantasies? Wouldn't they be different kinds of fantasies?

Jack Vettriano23:31

No, I I I think that yeah, you you should take some lessons in armed psychology. Um no, I I think that um it doesn't matter um

Jack Vettriano23:42

Where we are or who we're with, the fantasies that we've grown up with we will always have. We'll always have. And, you know, you can check out any time you like, but you can't leave.

Jack Vettriano23:51

I mean I'd hate anybody to think that I was I was somehow you know the grand old man of of love affairs um but um

Presenter23:57

I didn't think we were talking about love affairs, were we?

Jack Vettriano24:00

Uh no. Um no, it's just it's just a world that I particularly um like and I like to illustrate it.

Presenter24:07

Like the number six.

Jack Vettriano24:08

The the song I've chosen is by

Jack Vettriano24:11

A hero of mine, Leonard Cohen. This song is dedicated to somebody who they know who they are and I think they'll be listening.

Jack Vettriano24:20

And I think that without a doubt, if I was on a desert island, I'd be spending a hell of a time thinking about them.

Speaker 324:26

For I'd crawl to you, baby, and I fall at your feet, and I'd howl at your beauty, let the dog in heat, and I'd claw at your heart, and I'd tear at your sheet, I'd say, please, I'm your man.

Presenter24:56

Leonard Cohen, and I'm your man. As I said in the introduction, Jack, you don't hang in any public g gallery despite your huge popularity with the masses. How do you explain that? Can you explain that?

Jack Vettriano25:09

I think the the people best placed to answer that are the the people who run those establishments.

Presenter25:14

But you've heard what they have to say. They're very dismissive of the fact that they're not.

Jack Vettriano25:14

They don't like to work in the slightest. And I don't mind that, and I quite accept that. What does trouble me is that their annual budget is taxpayers' money.

Jack Vettriano25:28

And their annual budget is used to purchase new works.

Jack Vettriano25:31

And they purchase new works for themselves. They don't purchase work for the people, which is what they should be doing.

Presenter25:35

What you

Presenter25:36

I suppose their argument would be if they've got public money, they should be buying work which challenges the public as opposed to w as you know they call yours soft porn de merotica.

Jack Vettriano25:48

Soft porn, demiurotica. You see, I just think, Sue, that that's a nonsense. Um I mean, who are they to decide that the public need a challenge? I mean, if they want people to go into those galleries, why don't they put something in that they want to bloody see?

Jack Vettriano26:02

I'll be surprised and this isn't some kind of egotistical bluff I'll be surprised if my work isn't around in a few hundred years. I'll be surprised by that.

Presenter26:10

Okay, so

Presenter26:11

But what do you think it's all about when they voice this kind of clean?

Jack Vettriano26:12

Think it's

Jack Vettriano26:15

When it's

Presenter26:16

Hmm.

Jack Vettriano26:16

Well, I think it's just you know, they're just so horrified that I get the kind of publicity I get and that I earn the kind of money I earn, and I I think they're just absolutely horrified at at the kind of attention I get.

Presenter26:29

But it must hurt a bit because of course what they've done if you like is made you

Presenter26:36

A bit of an untouchable, because what they're suggesting is that to like Vetriano is to lack artistic judgment.

Jack Vettriano26:44

I think that their arrogance is breathtaking. You know, that they could actually suggest that to another human being that um you know he is welcome to paint so long as you don't take him seriously. You know, but yeah, you're right. When you're on a bad day it hurts. I mean everybody I think wants to be liked by everybody, but I think in this country there are two routes ahead of you. There's the one where you um appeal to popular taste or you appeal to a few and I just happen to be on another route from them.

Presenter27:14

Book number seven.

Jack Vettriano27:15

The seventh choice is won by the Eagles is called the last resort.

Jack Vettriano27:19

And the last resort, I I think deals with um

Jack Vettriano27:24

the disaffection of sort of middle America.

Jack Vettriano27:27

And

Jack Vettriano27:29

I just love it.

Speaker 327:30

Who will provide the grand design?

Speaker 327:34

What is yours and what is mine?

Speaker 327:38

There is no more new frontier

Speaker 327:42

We have got to make it here.

Speaker 327:45

We satisfy our endless needs.

Speaker 327:49

And justify our bloody deeds.

Speaker 327:53

In the name of destiny

Speaker 327:57

In the

Presenter27:58

The Eagles and the Last Resort. So to a desert island with you, Jack Vetriano. Um, you quite like your own company, so it's kinda okay, isn't it?

Jack Vettriano28:07

Yeah, I am.

Jack Vettriano28:09

I I do, as you say, like my own company and um I you know, I mean I I wouldn't like to be there too long, but the choices I've made to accompany me there will would sustain me for a while.

Presenter28:18

Hm. But do you need other human beings in your well, obviously, from what we heard from Leonard Cohen, you need somebody.

Jack Vettriano28:25

Yes, yes I do. I don't think I need I need people as much as other people do and I've you know, I've been accused of that, you know, in various situations.

Presenter28:33

You've been accused of being quite gloomy, too, as well.

Jack Vettriano28:36

Yeah, and um I s

Jack Vettriano28:39

As you can see I'm just a laugh a minute, you know?

Presenter28:43

But the question is, would the gloom overcome you? I mean, would you just sink into your boots on the network?

Jack Vettriano28:48

No, no, I I I don't think so. I wouldn't want the listeners to think that, you know, I would just sort of die out of depression or something, you know, um no I'd be I'd be okay.

Presenter28:57

Tell me about the last record. What is it?

Jack Vettriano28:59

The eighth one is a record by recorded by Judy Collins called My Father.

Jack Vettriano29:05

You know, wh when we're very young we think our Father is omnipotent, that He can protect us from war, hunger, everything. And I thought that about my Dad. I thought, you know, if ever I get into any trouble, he will be there.

Jack Vettriano29:17

As we grow older, we see our parents' limitations.

Jack Vettriano29:21

We see that he's not omnipotent, you know, but I love him all the more for that. And this song is about a woman who grows up in Ohio and her father is a is a miner and he always promises the family that they'll go and live in France. And of course um they never do but fortunately she in her lifetime does manage to live in Paris and go boating on the Seine and it's just it's just such a wonderful track.

Speaker 329:50

My father always promised us that we would live in France.

Speaker 330:02

We'd go boating on the sand

Speaker 330:07

And I would learn to die.

Speaker 330:14

We live

Presenter30:17

Judy Collins and my father. Both your parents are are still around, very much so. I mean, they must be so incredibly proud of you.

Jack Vettriano30:25

Yeah, they are.

Jack Vettriano30:31

You could hardly imagine just how excited they could get. I mean, they just loved it. They loved the whole day, just a fabulous day for them. You know, it was like.

Jack Vettriano30:39

My son has shaken the hand of the queen, so there you go.

Presenter30:43

Wonderful.

Presenter30:44

Okay, so if you could only take one of these eight records with you, if you've got to boil it right down to one, what are you going to take?

Jack Vettriano30:50

I'm going to be quite cynical here. I'm going to take Like a Rolling Stone'cause it's the longest, I think.

Jack Vettriano30:57

And it's the one that, you know, if I am heading in a downward spiral that it's a fine lengthy piece that I could sort of memorise and play act and so I'll go for um like a rolling stone.

Presenter31:09

Bob Dylan. Okay. Now what about your book, as well as Bible and Shakespeare?

Jack Vettriano31:15

Um well, the book I would like to take is a book of photographs.

Jack Vettriano31:20

by Hermit Newton, and it's called Sumo.

Jack Vettriano31:23

And it is huge. It actually comes on a metal stand, and you can stand it in your room.

Jack Vettriano31:29

And look at it.

Jack Vettriano31:31

That would form a shelter for me.

Presenter31:33

Um

Presenter31:34

You're not allowed to put it to any practical use, this book.

Jack Vettriano31:37

Of course, that's right.

Presenter31:38

That's right, right. Tell me about the photographs in what is it? Sorry about that. That's all right. I forgot about that.

Jack Vettriano31:39

What is it? He was the master. Very sexy photographs. And I think that, you know, if if I'm absolutely honest, um I would need some stimulation. I would want some stimulation. It would sustain me, I think, looking at all of this beauty.

Jack Vettriano31:55

And glamour that that he portrayed. So that would be my choice of book.

Presenter31:57

Mm

Presenter32:00

And luxury?

Jack Vettriano32:02

A triptych by Francis Bacon. It's called Triptych May June 1973. This was a triptych based on the death of a partner of his. And while Francis was showing his work in one of the National Galleries in Paris, his friend was dying in the in the hotel room. And this triptych displays that or illustrates that. The suicide. Yeah, yep. And it's an astonishing piece of work.

Presenter32:25

The suicide.

Jack Vettriano32:30

Now you I'm going to annoy you here, but the triptych you could actually turn it three ways and it would form a windbreak.

Presenter32:39

But it lacks the blue and white stripes. Jack Vetriano, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island disc.

Jack Vettriano32:44

Thank you.

Speaker 132:52

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.