Sir Gulam Noon

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and four, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My castaway this week is a business man. He's made his fortune as a result of our resolutely multicultural taste in food. He grew up in a humble family in Bombay and came to Britain in his late twenties prospecting for openings for the family business, which was sweets and confectionery. He fell in love with London, and he came back to stay. Spotting that the English love for a good curry wasn't well served by the supermarkets, he mortgaged his house, opened a small factory, and before long his spicy preparations were disappearing from the shelves like well, hot dishes. Now a millionaire and a knight, he can boast that hundreds of thousands of his meals are eaten in Britain every day. He remains modest and sincere. I've lost money as well as made it, he admits. I was in the right place at the right time, and that was here. He is Sir Goolum Noon. And um chicken ticker masala, we're now told Goolum is our national dish, so it must be your bestseller.

Sir Gulam Noon1:26

Overtaken five.

Presenter1:28

Overtaken fish and chips.

Sir Gulam Noon1:29

Completely, completely the test.

Presenter1:31

But it's all because, as I said in my introduction, you spotted a gap in the market. Now tell me about the day it dawned on you that what we needed was a good curry dinner.

Sir Gulam Noon1:41

Yes, I'll I I returned from the United States, completely failed in my venture there, which uh which was a disaster for me. But then I said, I'm not going to allow my entire research and the technicalities which I have learned in the United States, but I'm going to employ it here to my benefit, but I must find a gap in the market. What should I do? I'm a cook, basically. I thought that so many Indian restaurants came up and I said, Some day, someday, this same food will

Sir Gulam Noon2:13

Land on the shelf of the supermarket with vengeance. And it did. Because there was something on the show. I mean, we could.

Sir Gulam Noon2:21

Yeah, but it was very insipid.

Sir Gulam Noon2:24

Terrible to eat. For three Saturdays, I went and bought Indian food from several supermarkets, and I would open it, I would heat it as per their instructions, and try to eat it. And I tell you, I was extremely disappointed. And I said to myself, I think what it lacks here not only the spices or authenticity, but I think there is a big gap in their manufacturing method because technology is important here. And I had the technology which I had learnt in the United States. So I said, this is it. I'm going to come out with a

Sir Gulam Noon3:00

Authentic Indian Curries.

Presenter3:02

And that's what you did. Just one uh quick line before we hear about your first piece of music. I understand that when you got your first order from Bird's Eye, you thought they'd made a mistake.

Sir Gulam Noon3:10

I thought I would get an order for about hundred thousand pounds, fifty thousand pounds, and the first order was

Sir Gulam Noon3:17

Almost two point seven million.

Sir Gulam Noon3:20

and I fell off my chair.

Sir Gulam Noon3:22

Terrific.

Presenter3:22

Ha ha ha.

Presenter3:23

Let's have some music to start with. What would you like, first of all?

Sir Gulam Noon3:27

We'll have uh a north barrel.

Sir Gulam Noon3:30

By Shiv Kumar Sharma.

Sir Gulam Noon3:32

Hariprasad Chaurasia

Sir Gulam Noon3:34

and Bridge Bush and Cabra and the the title is Call of the Valley.

Sir Gulam Noon3:39

This is so soothing and when you are travelling, for example, in the valley of Kashmir and you hear this early morning as if you are in the valley of Kashmir.

Presenter4:17

Part of Not Bayro played by Shiv Kumar Sherma, Hariprasad Charasya and Brij Bhushan Kabra. How was that?

Sir Gulam Noon4:25

Good. Good.

Presenter4:26

To remind you, Gulamnun, the the beautiful hills of Kashmir, but that's not where you come from, is it?

Sir Gulam Noon4:31

I come from a place called Bombay. Now it is of course Mumbai. I was born there and I was educated up to high school in Bombay.

Presenter4:40

But the family business was a sweet shop.

Sir Gulam Noon4:42

We had a small two confectionery shops, which was uh actually started by my grandfather.

Sir Gulam Noon4:48

My father inherited it.

Sir Gulam Noon4:50

And then my father died when I was very young.

Presenter4:53

How old were you when you were

Sir Gulam Noon4:54

I was about seven and a half to eight years old.

Presenter4:57

The

Sir Gulam Noon4:58

And uh my youngest sister was a baby in arms in my mother's arms.

Presenter5:02

Okay.

Sir Gulam Noon5:03

It was a tough time.

Presenter5:04

Because the business can't have been very profitable, because as I understand it, you lived in pretty cramped quarters.

Sir Gulam Noon5:09

Yeah, what happened was before my father died, six months prior to my father's death, my eldest brother died and the family spent hell of a lot of money on their medical attention and the shop ran into a debt and then of course my father died and when my f after my father's death when we examined the books of the shop we were almost bankrupt.

Speaker 25:31

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon5:32

And my mother was a very resolute woman.

Sir Gulam Noon5:37

Not a very educated lady, but extremely wise and extremely

Sir Gulam Noon5:44

A fighter, a terrific fighter.

Sir Gulam Noon5:47

And she won't take the defeat.

Presenter5:48

But you were a little boy of eight at the time. How how did you react towards this?

Sir Gulam Noon5:50

Yes, I know.

Sir Gulam Noon5:52

I was I mean, we were all devastated. I mean, I distinctly remember the body of my father actually lying in the room where we were living. My mother was absolutely beating her chest, and my sisters and all the family members were crying.

Sir Gulam Noon6:11

And I said to my mother, in my old childish, naive manner, that Mother, don't cry. When I grow up I will take care of everything.

Presenter6:22

Breathing.

Sir Gulam Noon6:22

Yeah.

Presenter6:23

I mean i is that's what's created you, a kind of sense of obligation born in that moment, or do you think you might have been ambitious anyway?

Sir Gulam Noon6:30

I became ambitious as soon as I passed my high school, and I said to myself,

Sir Gulam Noon6:35

The most important thing in life is to give a quality of life to the family, and for which I will have to work. I will have to do something radical.

Sir Gulam Noon6:44

Just not sit at the shop and collect the cash.

Presenter6:47

But it was that desire to help your mother in that moment that really gave you the added spark.

Sir Gulam Noon6:52

My mother was everything in my life. In those days, if somebody had to say that would you sacrifice the best thing in life for the sake of mother, I would have said yes.

Presenter7:00

Yes.

Presenter7:02

Record number two, what's that?

Sir Gulam Noon7:04

Number two record of mine is by Dean Martin because it he reminds me of uh my youth and uh we probably we grew up together. It was my school days and I I was uh absolutely crazy about films and I I don't think I missed a single film of Dean Martin.

Speaker 27:22

It's knowing that your door is always open and your path is free to walk.

Speaker 27:32

That makes me tend to leave my sleeping bag rolled up and stashed behind your couch.

Speaker 27:42

And it's knowing I'm not shackled by forgotten words and bonds, And the ink stains that have dried up once and

Presenter7:49

Fine

Presenter7:52

Me, Martin, and gentle on my mind. So you spent your boyhood then, Goolam, playing cricket in the early mornings, as I understand it, before you went to school?

Presenter8:00

And then coming home at tea time, and you were an apprentice in the shop.

Sir Gulam Noon8:03

Absolutely. But my poor mother, my school started at eleven o'clock.

Sir Gulam Noon8:09

in the morning and would finish at four o'clock.

Sir Gulam Noon8:12

But we brothers lied to her, and we said to her that our school starts at eight o'clock, because we were all crazy about cricket. So we would leave house at seven thirty, reach the ground at eight o'clock,

Sir Gulam Noon8:26

Play cricket and we would reach.

Sir Gulam Noon8:29

School at quarter to eleven. How about that? And my mother never found out. But then we grew up, then we told her and she had a good laugh.

Presenter8:39

But then when you were sixteen you took over the business, didn't you? Or you looked into it full time.

Sir Gulam Noon8:43

Yes, I said to myself, we got to turn this company completely round.

Presenter8:49

And the first thing you did was change the name from what to what?

Sir Gulam Noon8:51

From what to what? And what it was my my grandfather's name on the signboard. So in India you see the Muslims and Hindus and it was predominantly a Muslim sort of a name. But I said we'll keep the company's name for the purpose of other things, but the for the public it'll be Royal Sweets and I never regret it.

Presenter9:11

It worked, did it?

Sir Gulam Noon9:12

It worked like magic. So we had the non Muslim community started coming in as our customer. And still it is Royal Sweets. And that Royal Sweets I brought to this country in seventies.

Presenter9:19

Customer.

Presenter9:26

But while you were still out there, you were so ambitious, as I read your story, that you you know you you frightened the family to death on occasions. I mean, didn't you once buy an office block without asking anybody?

Sir Gulam Noon9:37

Yes, I did. And that office block is a very huge building, seventy tenements. And uh it it came for sale and I bought it. Without telling my brother in law, I gave an advance check.

Sir Gulam Noon9:49

and I did not tell him, and I I was hiding the paperwork from him, but eventually I had to tell him, and I told him when I went to his house, when I made it sure that my mother was there,

Presenter10:00

Your mother was a bit of protection.

Sir Gulam Noon10:00

That was my protection. She was my shield. And I told him that this is what I have done. And he looked at my mother and he said to her, I knew that some day we'll be bankrupt because of him.

Presenter10:13

So he didn't have it updated, but your mother

Sir Gulam Noon10:14

My mother had my mother, of course, just to show that she does not approve my conduct, she said to me that you should have asked him, why did you not ask him? I said, If I had asked him, he would have refused.

Sir Gulam Noon10:25

And I know what I'm doing, please trust me.

Presenter10:28

But could you see, you know, a look in her eye that said, That's my boy.

Sir Gulam Noon10:32

I looked in her eye and there was an approval.

Sir Gulam Noon10:36

And that was enough for me.

Presenter10:37

And then you came on a trip to London in your late twenties. What was the effect of that, this place you'd heard so much about?

Sir Gulam Noon10:43

I had seen this London, Oxford Circus, Piccadilly Circus, only in the movies, black and white movies. So I came down here.

Sir Gulam Noon10:54

and hundreds of people came to see me off because it was a big thing.

Sir Gulam Noon10:57

In one eye appeared in the newspaper that I'm going to England.

Sir Gulam Noon11:02

So I came down here, and I remember the first night I came straight from my very small hotel in Victoria to Piccadilly Circus.

Sir Gulam Noon11:12

and I saw all the lights, and I said I am here.

Sir Gulam Noon11:16

And next morning I went around like every tourist would do, Madame Toussaux.

Sir Gulam Noon11:22

changing of the guards at Buckingham Palace, and I loved it. I fell in love with this country, and I said to myself, in aga in a very naive manner, that some day I would like to come and do some business here.

Presenter11:36

Mecho number three.

Sir Gulam Noon11:38

It is I Marry Zohra Zabine, and it is extremely popular song played in my time in the in the wed wedding and all, and it has stuck in my ears.

Presenter12:19

Bran Silas playing I Mary Zora Jabine, My Endless Love. So the move to London, Goolum Noon, was inevitable, really, and you finally came in nineteen seventy two, and guess what? You opened a sweet shop. This was in Southall, wasn't it?

Sir Gulam Noon12:32

Yes, I put up a small factory in South Hall.

Presenter12:36

Cool.

Sir Gulam Noon12:36

Bought one shop in South Hall on Main Broadway and we started this business.

Presenter12:41

But it must have been a huge come down for you n uh nonetheless because you'd been really rather a a you know, a big business man in in Bombay, hadn't you? And you'd been a JP and so on, and suddenly you're living in a little room not far from Heathrow Airport sharing a lounge.

Sir Gulam Noon12:54

I must confess that my family members, my well-wishers and my friends told me that you s you did it from the b you started from the bottom rung of the ladder, now you have reached the top, and why do you want to start all over again? I said to them, I have got enough fire in my belly and I got I need a bigger platform, so I'm going to go abroad and take this business there.

Presenter13:19

But it didn't go well at first, did it? Because not a lot of people wanted your Indian confectionery.

Sir Gulam Noon13:24

I knew that I need to have patience.

Sir Gulam Noon13:27

And when I started, my first day's first week's sale in my Broadway shop was sixty eight pounds.

Presenter13:34

You're taking

Sir Gulam Noon13:34

My take in total. And my heart sank. I said, What the hell am I doing here?

Presenter13:34

Clapped.

Sir Gulam Noon13:40

But who comes to my rescue?

Sir Gulam Noon13:42

Dada idi amin.

Sir Gulam Noon13:45

And he threw quite a lot of Asian family out of Uganda. And my community grew here, so did my business, because Indian sweets is primarily

Speaker 113:54

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon13:56

traditional sort of a thing for Asians, whether from the childbirth to the wedding to the birth days, till p a person dies, Indian switch plays a very important role.

Presenter14:09

No, it's like

Sir Gulam Noon14:11

Now it's like like fudge. Indian sweets I can the only thing I can describe is like but there are many varieties. And Indian sweets is so popular that even the man dies, the Indian sweets is distributed so that you remember that man's soul and pray for his soul, departed soul. So it is a very traditional thing.

Presenter14:25

And

Presenter14:30

So with the arrival of the Ugandan Asians, you suddenly had a whole vast market.

Sir Gulam Noon14:33

So

Sir Gulam Noon14:34

And they settled down in Leicester, so I opened a shop in Leicester.

Sir Gulam Noon14:38

In less than one year I had nine shops. The business was now coming to a proper shape which I had envisaged.

Presenter14:41

This was

Presenter14:44

So then you got really ambitious and decided you wanted to go to the United States, but it was to be a disaster, as we shall hear. But let's pause for some music first. Number four.

Sir Gulam Noon14:51

Uh

Speaker 214:51

Uh

Sir Gulam Noon14:51

We shall hear.

Sir Gulam Noon14:54

Number four is Frank Sinatra, Strangers in the Night. Now he reminds me of America all the time, and I I love United States, but I love it as a visitor. I won't I would be uncomfortable living there.

Speaker 115:11

Strangers in the night Exchanging glances Wandering in the night

Speaker 115:20

What were the chances we'd be sharing love?

Speaker 115:25

Before the night was through

Speaker 115:33

Something in your eyes was so inviting. Something in your smile.

Presenter15:40

Thanks, Sinatra, and Strangers in the Night. So it was 1980, New York, the scene, Gulam Nun, of your great American disaster. What did you put your money into?

Sir Gulam Noon15:48

First of all, I was a stranger. Like he says, it was a strange country to me.

Sir Gulam Noon15:54

In America I started the frozen food factory.

Sir Gulam Noon15:57

I put up a very nice factory.

Sir Gulam Noon15:59

And my idea was to sell this like I did eventually here.

Presenter16:03

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon16:05

But I think I was twenty-five years ahead of time.

Sir Gulam Noon16:10

I started producing and then I opened eleven restaurants. Eleven restaurants.

Presenter16:13

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon16:15

Well in in the tri-state of New York, from Connecticut to que uh to Manhattan, from Manhattan to downtown to uptown.

Speaker 116:15

Where?

Sir Gulam Noon16:24

But Indian the idea was to produce Indian food in the in a commissary, send it in a frozen condition and freshen it up there and serve it to the customer. Didn't work. I mean it was a disaster. The Indian food didn't work. No, the people food both they were they did not catch the imagination of Americans or New Yorker. Indian food was not popular.

Presenter16:38

But the food didn't work, but the people did or both.

Presenter16:48

So you hadn't researched first to find out if they wanted it.

Sir Gulam Noon16:50

Well, we thought that we were we were on the right track, but uh sometimes in business uh it it w what you write on a piece of paper is not true. And I had a formidable partners, they were large conglomerate companies, Indian Hotel Company out of India, and I said to them that we should pull the shutters down. But they wanted to continue, so I surrendered my share and came back here in eighty four. How much did you lose? Almost a million dollars I lost, which I had earned in this country, and a million dollars in twenty years back was a lot of money.

Presenter17:25

So you picked yourself up, dusted yourself down, started here over again, having learned from your experiences is the point, really. And we know what happened because eventually you started making all these curries for supermarkets. But

Sir Gulam Noon17:28

Yes.

Presenter17:39

Disaster was waiting to strike again. Was it not?

Sir Gulam Noon17:41

Yeah.

Presenter17:42

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon17:42

Absolutely.

Presenter17:43

Totally.

Sir Gulam Noon17:43

When I was I thought I was doing very well. I had the factory running and I had a turnover of almost sixteen million pounds supplying to large supermarkets like Waitrose and and Sainsbury's. It was the number one food, authentic Indian food, on the shelf of the supermarket. And on the fourteenth of november nineteen ninety four,

Sir Gulam Noon18:05

I was driving down to attend a charity function in Dorchester Hotel.

Sir Gulam Noon18:10

And uh the phone rang in my car and and uh my brother's voice was that the factory is on fire.

Presenter18:13

Then I will

Presenter18:17

Just pause there because before we hear what happened I want to hear some more music.

Presenter18:21

Number 5.

Sir Gulam Noon18:23

I love instrumental Indian music. It's a great soothing effect, and I'm particularly partial to mister Chaurasia and Zakirusen, the great tabla player, g son of a great father, Ustad Alarakha.

Presenter19:08

Part of the raga Bhagaswari Gatin Teen Tao played by Hariprasad Charasia on flute and Zakir Hussain on tabla.

Presenter19:16

So it was, as you were saying, Ghulam Noon, ten years ago this November, actually, that you got this message that your your factory in Southall, in West London, was burning down. You employed hundreds of people there. You went straight to the scene. What was it like?

Sir Gulam Noon19:31

In those days we had about two hundred and fifty people, and they were still in in their protective clothes and Wellington boots because they had no time to change. They all came out and my senior executives and my brothers and my daughter, they all brought them out. So they were all safe. That was a great relief to me. But uh they were crying, they were sobbing.

Sir Gulam Noon19:52

And I said to myself, I feel like crying, but I better hold there.

Presenter19:55

But what did you say to them? How did you help them?

Sir Gulam Noon19:57

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon19:58

I said to them that don't worry.

Sir Gulam Noon20:02

We'll build this factory again.

Sir Gulam Noon20:04

Just go home now.

Sir Gulam Noon20:06

I stood there

Sir Gulam Noon20:07

And it was completely fallen to the ground, and I couldn't save even one single spoon.

Sir Gulam Noon20:14

And I said to myself, What the hell am I going to do now?

Presenter20:17

But what about the staff standing there? Could you help them in that moment?

Sir Gulam Noon20:18

How do you think that's a good idea?

Sir Gulam Noon20:21

They were completely disraught.

Sir Gulam Noon20:23

and I told them that why don't we meet again to morrow morning.

Sir Gulam Noon20:27

And I went of my house.

Sir Gulam Noon20:31

And um I went there and I had a good cry.

Presenter20:35

You did in the end.

Sir Gulam Noon20:36

On my own.

Presenter20:37

Hmm.

Sir Gulam Noon20:37

And it relieved me.

Presenter20:39

Hmm.

Presenter20:40

And you did the trick, because you got the place back up and running by using your other factories and and getting some more space from other people. What about the supermarkets?'Cause you know, they by now had this huge amount of market that trade they created for these meals. Did they wait for you or did they turn away and find something elsewhere?

Sir Gulam Noon20:58

And

Sir Gulam Noon20:58

Very next morning I got a call from both my s major customers, from Waitrose as well as from Sainsbury's, and they were completely supportive. They did not buy product from anywhere anywhere else. But well, I am a I am an extremely spiritual person.

Sir Gulam Noon21:16

And my spirituality is always surfaced.

Sir Gulam Noon21:21

when I'm in a tight corner.

Sir Gulam Noon21:23

When I went next morning fire was still smouldering.

Sir Gulam Noon21:27

And all the workers came there, as I told them that we'll meet again tomorrow at eleven o'clock, and my solicitors, my accountant,

Sir Gulam Noon21:35

told me.

Sir Gulam Noon21:36

that where you have no factory, you have no business, so you must give terminate their services and stop their pay.

Sir Gulam Noon21:42

I don't know what made me say this, but I said this, and I told my accountant that you will not do such thing. You will pay the money.

Sir Gulam Noon21:51

Their wage is exactly like what you have done last week.

Sir Gulam Noon21:55

Until such time I have no money in the bank.

Presenter21:58

You mentioned that you're a a spiritual man, a a Muslim. I mean, I presume in all of this you you thanked your Maker, as it were, for finding a way through for you.

Sir Gulam Noon22:08

Every night I bend my on my knees, I am on my knees and thank him for what he has given me. I came with nothing. This society, this country has given me everything health, wealth and honors, and that to twice. So I am

Presenter22:12

Yeah.

Presenter22:22

Hmm.

Sir Gulam Noon22:24

Extremely thankful to my Maker.

Presenter22:26

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon22:26

Uh

Presenter22:26

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon22:27

At three o'clock in the morning when I was returning home,

Sir Gulam Noon22:32

and the fire was still smouldering.

Sir Gulam Noon22:35

And I was alone in my car. When I pushed the C D, it was.

Sir Gulam Noon22:39

Pavarotti's music and his voice

Sir Gulam Noon22:43

And the amount of energy in his voice

Sir Gulam Noon22:46

gave me so much of energy and enthusiasm that I said to myself, Why am I despair?

Sir Gulam Noon22:51

Yes, I've lost the facty, but I'm alive.

Sir Gulam Noon22:54

My family is alive, nobody is hurt.

Sir Gulam Noon22:58

And that gave me so much of sort of courage.

Speaker 123:18

Bossy up

Speaker 123:26

We are seeing our body.

Speaker 123:35

Your glory of lame.

Presenter23:47

Let's go.

Speaker 123:52

It's

Speaker 123:53

Body dock.

Presenter23:59

Luciano Pavarotti singing Schubert's Ave Maria with the National Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by court Herbert Adler. I gather you're something of a chef yourself, Cullum. You said you like being in the kitchen. I mean, you can knock up a good curry yourself, can you?

Sir Gulam Noon24:11

Oh, good Lord, I cook every weekend. I got to cook every weekend. It is a sort of a must now. It's a ritual on Saturday or Sunday. I must mix a couple of dishes.

Presenter24:20

But what you've put great emphasis on is the authenticity of the curries you make for sale. But how can you do that? Because of course, as we know, in order to do it properly the Indian woman has to crush the cardamom pods herself, the turmeric has to be freshly ground. How can you imitate all of that?

Sir Gulam Noon24:36

It's an extremely cumbersome affair cooking in Indian meal. But uh when I started this business, I said to myself, I'm only going to give only authentic food, although I had a lot of pressure initially from my customers to use the apple pieces and sultanas in the curry, and I refused.

Presenter24:56

They're not in real cars, Apple and Mm.

Sir Gulam Noon24:57

They are absolutely it is in Congress.

Presenter24:59

All right.

Sir Gulam Noon25:00

To have apples and sultanas in the curries.

Presenter25:03

But how can you do it? You can't grind all those spices freshly, can you?

Sir Gulam Noon25:06

Oh, yes. I mean, we have a company, for example, associated company in India, which takes the position for the buying the spices in the right time, right quality, hand clean it.

Sir Gulam Noon25:16

Pack it and send it to S per specification. But who grinds it?

Presenter25:20

The in

Sir Gulam Noon25:22

Yes, there's no problem there.

Presenter25:22

Yes, nice.

Presenter25:24

But you can't I mean, again, in a factory, how can you imitate a tandoori oven, a sort of open clay oven?

Sir Gulam Noon25:30

Uh

Presenter25:30

Now

Sir Gulam Noon25:30

Tandoori oven is a big story here in a sense that, you know, you cannot the amount of chicken pieces we roast it in a tandoor, I would require probably two hundred tandoors in my factory which is not possible. So we designed an oven, which is a travelling oven, which replicates and gives the same flavor as the tandoor gives in the restaurant.

Presenter25:52

When you say traveling you mean it's a sort of conveyor.

Sir Gulam Noon25:53

It's a sort of conveyor belt. It's a conveyor belt. You put the chicken on one side, in nine minutes it comes out on the other side.

Presenter25:59

Nine minutes, precisely.

Sir Gulam Noon25:59

Nine minutes, precisely. Precisely nine minutes. And we cooked almost about eight to nine tons of chicken every single day.

Presenter26:07

And you've got these great vats that reduce the onions. I mean, hundreds of kilos of onions at a time are reducing, yes.

Speaker 126:11

Yes.

Sir Gulam Noon26:11

Uh

Speaker 126:12

I'm

Sir Gulam Noon26:12

We we use almost about twenty five, thirty tons of onion every single day and it has to be reduced because it's a base for curry. Tomatoes and onion is a base for curries.

Presenter26:24

But you're the magic taster, aren't you? Nothing gets produced unless you taste it and give it your imprimatur.

Sir Gulam Noon26:28

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon26:30

I like to think that I have a very clean and clear palate. I'm in this business for last so many years, so I have developed that. As I said, I have a clear palate. I am I I have international taste in that respect. I like food. I don't care about the nationality. Food is something you like it, you eat it.

Presenter26:47

Record number seven.

Sir Gulam Noon26:49

Now record number seven is Dolly Parton. I admire Dolly Parton because she overcame a tough childhood. She was extremely poor and she had the determination and talent to become successful. And also as well as being a great entertainer, she's a very astute businesswoman which I can relate myself to with her.

Presenter27:13

Trumble out of bed and stumble to the kitchen, pour myself a cup of ambition and yawn and stretch and try to come to life.

Presenter27:22

Jump in the shower and the blood starts pumping Out on the streets and traffic starts chompin' With folks like me on the job from nine to five

Presenter27:31

Working night to find. What a way to make a living. Get it getting by. It's all Jennifer. Dolly Parton and 9 to 5. So you were made a Knight of the Realm a couple of years ago, Gollum. So Goolum Noon, a proud moment for you, I'm sure. I'll put money on the fact that you wept when you got the news.

Sir Gulam Noon27:51

I was absolutely thrilled. The funny thing happened to me. Normally.

Sir Gulam Noon27:57

You get the letter.

Sir Gulam Noon27:59

from the government. I did not get a letter. So one day while I was busy with my one of my big customers and my mobile telephone was off, and when I reached office at one o'clock, my secretary almost shouted at me, Where are you? I have been ringing up because there is a telephone call from the ten Downing Street.

Sir Gulam Noon28:17

They want to talk to you. I said, What is it about? What have I done now?

Sir Gulam Noon28:20

Of course I rang them up and they said, Well, Mr. Noon, you haven't replied to the letter of Prime Minister. I said, What letter? I haven't received any letter. We sent you a letter. Prime Minister uh has recommended your name for knighthood to the committee and committee has accepted it. And we want your consent. Will you accept it? I said yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Sir Gulam Noon28:42

But immediately after that, I must say this, I called my daughters and told them that this is the news, although I was warned on the telephone that you are not supposed to tell. How can you not tell your immediate family members?

Sir Gulam Noon28:54

It's not it's not uh conceivable. I said, Listen, important thing is to keep our feet on the ground, including myself, but I'm telling you particularly, both of you, we should not boast about it, we should not become arrogant just because your father now is going to be known as Sir Ghulam Noon. And they both cried.

Presenter29:13

And the Queen knighted you, of course. And uh have you met her since? Did she know who you were? Did she

Sir Gulam Noon29:20

Yes, I met her, but funny enough, before I was my investiture, I had an occasion to sit almost next to her at the same table when she was touring during her fiftieth anniversary of her reign.

Sir Gulam Noon29:33

My investiture was not done, so I was not used to this sargulum world.

Speaker 129:35

Yeah.

Speaker 229:35

Uh

Speaker 129:35

Don't you

Speaker 129:36

Yeah.

Sir Gulam Noon29:36

So

Sir Gulam Noon29:37

Sir Gulam, when did you come to this country? Sir Gulam, how many people do you employ? Sir Gulam, what do you do? So I was a bit uncomfortable, so I said, ma'am.

Sir Gulam Noon29:46

Gollam will do.

Sir Gulam Noon29:49

She looked straight into my eyes and said, We give title, we must use it.

Sir Gulam Noon29:55

She put me in my place.

Presenter29:56

You didn't learn if she was partial to a curry herself.

Sir Gulam Noon29:59

No, actually she it was not a curry lunch, uh but I know that Prince Charles definitely likes curry.

Presenter30:05

What about when you go back to India, to Mumbai, to your roots? Um I'm I bet they call you Sir Goolum there, don't they?

Sir Gulam Noon30:11

Yes, I mean the my friends and my country, of course, uh they look at me with uh great awe and respect and which is great.

Presenter30:19

Well, you've felt them a lot, haven't you?

Sir Gulam Noon30:22

Yes, I in my home town I do a lot of work. Yes, since last ten years I pumped a lot of money through my foundation. I built hospitals, I built schools, I built community hall, I built a college hall, and I built even a a hall for uh the what you call untouchables.

Presenter30:40

I wonder what your mother would have thought if she could have seen Molly.

Sir Gulam Noon30:43

Good Lord, oh good Lord, she would have been very proud, but she's watching me, she's always with me.

Presenter30:49

I I see that you do become on occasions a kind of unofficial spokesman for your community. You write to newspapers, you you make points. And one of the things that you feel very strongly about, I think, is the fact that you and others, other communities, are called ethnic minorities. You don't like that phrase.

Sir Gulam Noon31:06

I hate that word ethnic minority. We are in the mainstream. Our boys and girls, our second generations are educated in this country. Gone are those days when in on in sixties and seventies when I used to come to England at the Heathrow Airport, I could see only the Asians sweeping the floor or minding the toilets. Now they are on the on the counter of immigration and they are practically in every industry.

Presenter31:31

But what are you saying that we shouldn't even make a distinction? You're saying is that essentially racist to call an ethnic n minority? We should simply say British.

Sir Gulam Noon31:39

British. We are all British. Those who are studying here, there are those who are living here, those who have acquired the British citizenship, and they are British. But well, I I'm not objecting to that extent, but I think over a period of time, another maybe ten years, maybe twenty years, certainly this dreaded word ethnic minority will be dropped.

Presenter31:59

Last piece of music.

Sir Gulam Noon32:00

I like Tina Turner because she has a very powerful voice, like Dolly Parton. She has a lot of guts, a lady with a tremendous energy and drive. Her music has livened up many of my parties at home, and this would remind me of my friends and families in UK and in India.

Speaker 232:20

You what you want me to do?

Speaker 232:24

I'm your bride, a dancer, a dancer for money, and any of your music will be

Speaker 132:33

Damn.

Speaker 132:35

Dance up for money, do what you have me to do.

Speaker 132:40

Yesterfrid dancer, I danced on my morning, could hear the old music wheel?

Presenter32:49

Tina Turner and Private Dancer. Okay, three final questions then. If you could only take one of those eight records, which one would you take?

Sir Gulam Noon32:56

I would take uh Shivashankar, Sharma, Hariprasa, Chaurashya, and Bridge, Bush and Kabra.

Presenter33:02

Your your first record.

Sir Gulam Noon33:03

What was recorded?

Presenter33:04

Yes.

Sir Gulam Noon33:04

Yes. It is such a soothing effect on me that if I'm lost on the island and when I'm depressed, I would play that and I think it'll boost me up.

Presenter33:11

Yeah.

Presenter33:12

Now what about your book? We give you the complete works of Shakespeare and we give you obviously the Koran. What other book would you like to do?

Sir Gulam Noon33:18

Well, I would like to take the autobiography of Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom.

Sir Gulam Noon33:23

Because I think he epitomized in my mind the man with the

Sir Gulam Noon33:28

Tremendous courage.

Sir Gulam Noon33:29

Magnanimity

Sir Gulam Noon33:31

And forgiveness

Sir Gulam Noon33:33

I mean, despite the fact that he was in prison for so many years, and when he came out he shook hands with all his friends.

Sir Gulam Noon33:41

And indeed

Presenter33:41

And indeed with his enemies.

Sir Gulam Noon33:42

And with his uh with friends and and particularly with enemies, particularly with enemies.

Sir Gulam Noon33:46

Such a man is my hero.

Presenter33:47

And is my head

Presenter33:48

What about your luxury?

Sir Gulam Noon33:50

My luxury, if you allow me to take video, I mean completely T V and video.

Sir Gulam Noon33:56

Freak

Sir Gulam Noon33:56

and a collection of videos of all the cricket matches with the matches hanging in the balance up to the last two, three balls.

Sir Gulam Noon34:06

It would be fantastic I can enjoy myself, without my wife disturbing me that you cricket fanatic.

Presenter34:13

You shall have it. So good morning. Thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Sir Gulam Noon34:17

Thank you very much.

Presenter34:25

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.