Stephen Frears

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and four, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Costaway this week is a film director. He learned his trade as a drama director at the B B C in the great years of the well made television play, often written by Alan Bennett or Tom Stoppard.

Presenter0:40

His first feature, Gum Shoe, with Albert Finney, was produced more than thirty years ago. Since then he's made big hits and some flops, with many of Hollywood's top names. Dangerous liaisons and high fidelity are two of his best known.

Presenter0:53

His great gift is his ability to tell a story and adapt a script deftly and clearly. He has a light touch, but he runs deep. Films to me, he says, are like golden moments when you create a family. He is Stephen Freers. So you cast yourself, do you, Stephen, as the patriarch in all of this sort of leading the tribe on set, do you?

Stephen Frears1:14

Well, I've become I've grown older and become the patriarch. Once I was the prodigal s or not I was the youngest son. I was like a child on these sets and then one day I woke up and discovered I was the oldest.

Presenter1:25

But it's where you feel at home. You like that that sense of family of everybody, cameramen, actors all pulling together.

Stephen Frears1:30

Yes, it seems to me you get to make the film and then you get to make the family that makes the film, so it's a sort of double helping of being God.

Presenter1:38

I mean, Hanif Qureshi, who wrote My Beautiful Laundry, which of course was your big breakthrough film, has said that collaborating with you in that kind of way is positively joyous. So obviously it it must mean it gives you great pleasure, if you're exhibiting joy.

Stephen Frears1:42

Okay.

Stephen Frears1:48

So what is

Stephen Frears1:50

It is I do and I it brings out the best side of me and I like the contributions everybody makes and I work with wonderful people who I've worked with for a long time.

Presenter1:59

But is it where you're at your happiest, would you say, in life, when you've got a good fill and a good scripted showing?

Stephen Frears1:59

Yeah.

Stephen Frears2:03

Good film, a good one. I'm not sure I'm particularly proud of saying that, but uh I seem to come to life then.

Presenter2:10

Does it make you, therefore, possessive about the people you work with?

Stephen Frears2:14

I'm jealous.

Presenter2:15

Of

Stephen Frears2:16

I remember in my beautiful Andrete, Dande Lewis played a blonde, and then he dyed his hair dark, which is in fact the colour of his hair that he was born with, and I was very, very upset by this and felt like a I'd been cheated on in some way. So I get possessive about the actors.

Presenter2:28

Target.

Presenter2:30

What about Audrey Tattoo after Dirty Pretty Things? Yeah, she then.

Stephen Frears2:36

And it was very, very upsetting.

Presenter2:38

In what I mean, how seriously do you mean that you sound like a sort of jilted lover?

Stephen Frears2:41

Well, it feels like being a jilted lover. She cut her hair off. It was shocking. She came. And she belonged.

Presenter2:45

And she belongs to you. She was part of your family.

Stephen Frears2:47

For a moment, yes.

Presenter2:49

So so you're fundamentally a a kind of sentimental old thing, isn't it? I would have thought so. Really? At the same time.

Stephen Frears2:52

I would have thought so. Really? At the same time.

Presenter2:57

All right, well, let's make a a start on the soundtrack of your life. What's your first Desert Island disc?

Stephen Frears3:03

Well, the first one is a song uh by Groucho, who seems more and more central to my life. And it's a song from Horse Feathers. There are men many good songs by Groucho, Lydia the Tattooed Lady and um

Stephen Frears3:17

Things like that. But this is called I'm Against It.

Stephen Frears3:20

And seems.

Stephen Frears3:21

Close to home.

Presenter3:24

I don't know what they have to say. It makes no difference anyway. Whatever it is, I'm against it.

Presenter3:31

Don't mind a lot it is or who commenced it.

Stephen Frears3:31

What?

Presenter3:34

I'm against it.

Stephen Frears3:37

Your proposition may be good, but let's have one thing understood, whatever it is, I'm against it.

Stephen Frears3:44

And even when you've changed it or condensed it.

Presenter3:47

I'm against it.

Stephen Frears3:50

I'm opposed to win.

Stephen Frears3:52

On general principles, I'm opposed to it.

Stephen Frears3:57

I can leave. Uh

Speaker 14:00

Yeah.

Stephen Frears4:03

For months before my son was born, I used to yell from night till morning, whatever it is.

Speaker 14:05

Am I used to it?

Stephen Frears4:08

I'm against it.

Stephen Frears4:10

And I've kept yelling since I first commenced it. I'm against it.

Presenter4:16

Whatever it is, I'm against it by Graccio Marx, and that was from the 1932 film Horse Feathers. So it appeals'cause it's close to home. This is you, is it yours?

Stephen Frears4:25

I suspect so, yes. I'm an armchair critic. I just whatever it is, I'll just go for it. I'll moan about it.

Presenter4:31

And the Marx Brothers and their films, i is that what you watched as a boy?

Stephen Frears4:34

When I went away to school they would show a film on Saturday, and then they'd show the same film again on Sunday.

Stephen Frears4:40

As a way of

Stephen Frears4:42

keeping the boys occupied. So I got to know these films better than I should have done.

Presenter4:46

But the idea when you watched them as a small boy of your becoming a film director was just not in your on not on the radar at all.

Stephen Frears4:51

No, that wasn't.

Stephen Frears4:54

I don't think I knew that films are directed.

Stephen Frears4:58

Um it never occurred to me it never occurred to me I'd work in films.

Presenter5:01

Hm. What did you think you do?

Stephen Frears5:03

I don't really know.

Stephen Frears5:05

They were part of the dark years, and I don't know what I thought I would be.

Presenter5:08

How long did the dark years last?

Stephen Frears5:10

Till I was in my teens.

Presenter5:11

Are you ready that?

Stephen Frears5:12

Where did I go?

Presenter5:13

So

Stephen Frears5:18

And it was only after that that I started to wake up and realize what a

Stephen Frears5:23

Idiot I was.

Presenter5:24

Tell me about the the dark years then. I mean, what what sort of little boy were you? Leafy suburb in Leicester, this is, isn't it?

Stephen Frears5:30

No, but yes, it was a leafy suburb, but it I it was a rather complicated childhood.

Stephen Frears5:35

It it was the war.

Stephen Frears5:37

My my m my parents were progressive people who and my mother was an intelligent sort of rather rebellious woman and active and a social worker.

Stephen Frears5:46

And then and my father and she met.

Stephen Frears5:49

In the East End at Toynby Hall.

Stephen Frears5:52

And then

Stephen Frears5:53

When they got married.

Stephen Frears5:55

She's they seem somehow to have gone back to Leicester, where my father's family were.

Stephen Frears5:59

and settled into a more conventional life because there were children to support, and my father became a chartered accountant.

Stephen Frears6:04

Then the war came along. My mother well and I was born in 1941, by which time my mother had therefore had three children.

Stephen Frears6:11

under five, I suppose. My father was then posted to South Africa for some reason that I don't quite understand why it was necessary to defend us in South Africa, but that was where he was throughout the war.

Stephen Frears6:24

And my brothers were sent away to

Stephen Frears6:28

a thing called a pre preparatory school.

Presenter6:30

So you were left alone with yourself.

Stephen Frears6:31

So I was left alone with my mother, and my mother must have been devastated to lose her husband and two sons.

Stephen Frears6:37

So I grew up really alone with my mother.

Presenter6:40

And what would be the you were much cosseted, therefore, were you?

Stephen Frears6:44

Yes, I was spoilt rotten by her, and received barrel loads of love, but I also think she must have been very unhappy.

Presenter6:50

Mm-hmm.

Stephen Frears6:50

about this state of affairs, even though I imagine she'd colluded in it.

Presenter6:54

But y you've you've talked since about being suffocated by marooned with her as well.

Stephen Frears6:58

Well,

Stephen Frears7:00

Uh

Presenter7:00

It sounds as if it wasn't a pleasant experience.

Stephen Frears7:00

Well it sounds as if

Stephen Frears7:01

It was a very difficult time. It was a very difficult time for everybody.

Stephen Frears7:06

We sat in this large suburban house, most of which was closed up because you couldn't afford to heat the rooms.

Stephen Frears7:12

And my mother and I really sat in the kitchen throughout the forties playing cards and um

Stephen Frears7:18

Listening to the radio and

Stephen Frears7:21

Driving each other mad, I suspect.

Presenter7:22

But it could have been a very happy experience, a little boy aged three, four, five, with a table.

Stephen Frears7:26

Well, I wanted to be with my brothers.

Stephen Frears7:29

They were a sort of escape.

Stephen Frears7:31

And uh

Stephen Frears7:33

So I called the Dark Years I sort of I sort of shut down, and Leicester was a very dull place.

Stephen Frears7:39

But uh it really didn't perk up in England until the fifties.

Presenter7:42

But it obviously is all to do with this relationship with your mother because I mean if that relationship had been perky and fun and jolly and and loving in the most positive sense then you wouldn't be saying they were dark ears.

Stephen Frears7:45

Because

Stephen Frears7:48

And loving in the most positive sense.

Stephen Frears7:51

Yes, I no, I received, I say, bucket loads of love from my mother. It just wasn't quite what I wanted.

Stephen Frears7:57

I wanted something more balanced and something more moderate, and I say she must have been very, very unhappy.

Presenter8:04

Record number two.

Stephen Frears8:06

Well, I remember having baths in a tin bath in front of them.

Stephen Frears8:10

Stove in the kitchen.

Stephen Frears8:11

And she used to sing me songs, and she would either sing Gracie Field, singing Now is the hour.

Stephen Frears8:17

Or a song called Put Another Nickel In.

Stephen Frears8:19

Or she would sing Good Night Are Reed.

Speaker 18:25

Irene, good night, good night, Irene, good night, Irene. I see you in my

Stephen Frears8:36

A dream

Stephen Frears8:38

Last Saturday night I got married

Stephen Frears8:42

Me and my man settled down

Presenter8:45

Uh

Stephen Frears8:45

Um

Presenter8:46

Now me and my wife, we are parted.

Presenter8:50

I'm gonna take another stroll down town.

Speaker 19:02

Good night, Irene. Good night, Irene. I see you in my dreams.

Presenter9:16

Sometimes I live in the country, in the country, sometimes I live in the town. I'm in the

Speaker 19:27

Down

Presenter9:27

Uh

Speaker 19:27

Sometimes I take a great notion, a notion you don't want me hanging around.

Speaker 19:36

Iring good night I ring

Stephen Frears9:42

Good night, good night, Irene, good night, Irene. I'll see.

Speaker 39:50

You in my dream.

Presenter9:52

Good night, Irene, sung by the Headley Warner trio. But but I get the impression, Stephen, that the family was quite well heeled for all this sitting in a cold weather.

Stephen Frears10:01

My father's family, yes, we were what were known as a small business family, but actually were quite prosperous. My father was.

Presenter10:06

More for business.

Stephen Frears10:07

Uh my grandfather was a baker, and my one of my uncles made the bread for Leicester, and another made ran a biscuit factory.

Presenter10:16

But your dad didn't work in

Stephen Frears10:17

No, my dad was the most eccentric member of an eccentric family.

Stephen Frears10:21

So yes, the background was prosperous, but as I say, I was having tin baths in front of the fire.

Presenter10:26

Mm. Why was he eccentric? How was he eccentric?

Stephen Frears10:29

He was rather a romantic figure.

Stephen Frears10:31

After the war, when he came back from South Africa, he became a doctor, so he went to medical college. He went back to London to study. So he left you again? Which is why I was alone with my mother all through the forties. First because of the war, then because of his studies.

Presenter10:37

So he left you again?

Presenter10:42

Mm-hmm.

Presenter10:44

And against this rather unconventional background that you described, I mean, you were a well-behaved, obedient woman. Well, my mother.

Stephen Frears10:52

Well, my mother my mother was endeavouring to make herself a sort of respectable person, or endeavouring to fit in with

Stephen Frears10:59

I suppose Leicester society, which was conventional and

Stephen Frears11:03

She was endeavouring to be sort of good

Stephen Frears11:05

Citizen in Leicester.

Speaker 311:07

Hmm.

Stephen Frears11:07

So, um

Stephen Frears11:10

What I mainly remember is being taken to church every Sunday evening, when in my late twenties I discovered that

Stephen Frears11:16

My mother was Jewish, and therefore I was Jewish. I wondered what I'd been doing at church all these years.

Presenter11:21

But you still I still get the impression that that that you were sort of very passive in all this. You I I can't hear your personality

Stephen Frears11:27

No, what happened is I sort of concealed myself in some way and

Stephen Frears11:32

You know, I went below the radar and

Presenter11:33

But can you remember doing that and why you did that?

Stephen Frears11:37

No, and of course you don't know you're doing that at the time.

Stephen Frears11:40

I seem now to have become a rather submerged figure.

Presenter11:43

Hmm.

Stephen Frears11:44

and rather a passive figure.

Presenter11:45

Hmm.

Stephen Frears11:46

And then slowly began to wake up.

Presenter11:48

And yet well, quite, because I mean, today at age sixty two, you you you sort of cast yourself vaguely as Groucho Marx, you know, subversive, eccentric, capable of being jaunty.

Stephen Frears11:55

Subscribe.

Stephen Frears11:58

I I really started my life again in my teens.

Presenter12:02

And, as we were saying earlier, on this strong sense of family and need for family, so creating it at work as well as at home.

Stephen Frears12:07

Creating it at work as well.

Stephen Frears12:09

Well, I began really to create my own life, the life I now lead. I can I can trace it back to my teens. I'm perplexed. I mean, clearly I must be able to trace it back to the early years of my mother, but

Stephen Frears12:20

I seemed to begin a second time.

Presenter12:22

And and go on a search for a family.

Stephen Frears12:24

Yes, very much so.

Presenter12:26

Medi.

Stephen Frears12:26

Yes, absolutely.

Stephen Frears12:28

I spent a lot of my life finding people to act as surrogate parents or teachers and people like that. I I systematically set about creating

Stephen Frears12:39

the li a life that I find I mean, it's a very interesting life that I lead and I

Stephen Frears12:43

created it. I mean, I made people take me there.

Presenter12:48

Next record, what is it?

Stephen Frears12:49

Well, so Rock Around the Clock, which is the next record, is really one of the songs that coincided with my waking up.

Stephen Frears12:55

We moved to Nottingham in the early fifties when my father by then was a doctor. So my father came home.

Stephen Frears13:01

My father, whom I clearly

Stephen Frears13:04

sort of favour of my two parents, although

Stephen Frears13:07

It seems to me that he didn't treat my brother very well. However, life is endlessly unfair, and he seems to get my vote. Uh we moved to Nottingham, which was a wonderful place. And Rock Around the Clock came in the middle of the fifties and

Stephen Frears13:22

That was like a sort of being woken up.

Stephen Frears13:24

1, 2, 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock, rock. 5, 6, 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock, rock. 9, 10, 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, rock. We're gonna rock. Around 10 o'clock tonight, what flag flags over?

Stephen Frears13:37

Behind the

Speaker 113:38

We'll have some fun when the birds strike one.

Speaker 113:43

Oh, clock, clock.

Stephen Frears13:45

What they like. I'm the clock

Stephen Frears13:51

When Spotty Lights blue, straight in for it, when it was not will you

Speaker 113:59

We're going to find it right.

Stephen Frears14:23

When the chimes ring five, six and seven we'll be right at seven, and the moon

Speaker 314:29

Market work.

Speaker 314:31

Yeah.

Speaker 314:33

What do they like? We're not the body go to rock

Presenter14:36

Yeah.

Presenter14:39

Oh well it's AIK, 112, holly go and strong and so will you run around

Presenter14:46

Tomorrow we're gonna rock

Speaker 114:49

Good day, right? We're gonna have to go

Stephen Frears15:11

When the clock strikes twelve, we'll off and start around and round the clock again.

Stephen Frears15:16

Brada!

Speaker 315:17

Uh

Stephen Frears15:17

We're back.

Speaker 315:18

Uh We're going to Frock Rock.

Speaker 115:20

Until broad daylight

Presenter15:25

Uh

Presenter15:33

Bill Haley and his Comets and Rock Around the Clock. Um you went to the Royal Court, Stephen, in nineteen sixty four as a kind of sometime assistant to Lindsay Anderson. Is that when you kind of woke up? Is that when you stop?

Stephen Frears15:41

B

Stephen Frears15:44

Well, I'd begun waking up and I've I've remember finishing public school and being completely lost and then meeting a teacher in Nottingham.

Stephen Frears15:52

who started to educate me, started to teach me that education and life were actually the same thing and that they were all entwined. And then I was at Cambridge and I got a job eventually at the Royal Court.

Speaker 116:02

Mm.

Stephen Frears16:03

which was full of brilliant, brilliant, terrifying men. I mean it was a terrifying place.

Presenter16:09

Why terrifying?

Stephen Frears16:10

Because they were brilliant and very, very talented and competitive and it was very tough, but they were doing very, very good work.

Presenter16:18

But you'd identified that theatre or drama or something of that kind was what you wanted to do.

Stephen Frears16:22

I yes, I that's right. I can remember, um

Stephen Frears16:26

being in Nottingham sometime in the fifties and watching an actress, a very beautiful actress called Anne Bell.

Stephen Frears16:32

Walking down the street in red stockings and a beehive hairdo

Stephen Frears16:36

And somehow I knew there was a better life which I could find it. Uh and event and so I ran away really to join the theatre. I mean I re I emotionally ran ran away to join the theatre.

Presenter16:46

And this of course was the swinging sixties, London and all the rest of the world.

Stephen Frears16:48

Yes, I was more serious. No, I was more serious than that. I rather missed out on that because I was too serious and pompous and ridiculous.

Presenter16:57

Still trying to work yourself out. And then along came another of those mentors you've mentioned, Carol Rice, the legendary film director, and he became a a a big father figure, didn't he?

Stephen Frears16:58

Yeah.

Stephen Frears17:01

Yeah.

Stephen Frears17:02

It's a film direction.

Stephen Frears17:04

A big father figured out. Yes, Lindsay Anderson introduced me to Carol. And Carol was a very much kinder, more humane man than I mean, Carol was also a brilliant man.

Stephen Frears17:14

And he really.

Stephen Frears17:16

I really went to work with him like an apprentice.

Stephen Frears17:19

And he sort of took me into his family for a time, and I started to learn about life and about

Stephen Frears17:26

Values and I mean, things that I seem not to have acquired in my childhood, though I can't be too it it must be more complicated than that.

Presenter17:33

What sort of values? Moral, ethical?

Stephen Frears17:36

Yes, and humane.

Stephen Frears17:38

Uh

Presenter17:38

Yeah.

Stephen Frears17:39

I mean, I I I really can't make sense of it, but the idea of how you treated other people that all came from quite late in my life.

Presenter17:47

You've never had any of that in your child. It's very difficult to get it.

Stephen Frears17:49

It's a ridiculous idea, of course, but I remember it most clearly from the influence of Carol, from meeting Carol.

Presenter17:55

Right.

Presenter17:56

It's it's interesting, isn't it? Because so many of your films, a lot of your your work, your successful pieces are about humanity, aren't they?

Stephen Frears18:03

Of course, of course.

Presenter18:04

About the interreaction of the

Stephen Frears18:05

To the action of interaction. It's unfair on my mother that I don't take it back to her, but I can't make that connection. He was an extraordinary man. He'd lost his.

Stephen Frears18:14

parents to the Nazis and his country to Czechoslovakia to Stalin, so he had a belly full of troubles, and he was very um wise and c very funny, very humane.

Presenter18:20

Yeah. Uh

Presenter18:28

I could number four.

Stephen Frears18:29

Well, this is from uh a film that I particularly liked in the sixties, Le Parapri de Cherbourg.

Stephen Frears18:35

There is another film director I meet and we sing bits of this soundtrack to each other. Captain Deneuve was in it looking very, very beautiful, and it's a sung film. So it's an operetta, I suppose you'd say.

Speaker 118:47

Esqueje fais le pla pour madame.

Speaker 118:50

And yeah.

Speaker 118:52

Oui, le plain super dinaire.

Speaker 118:56

Went past

Speaker 118:59

Uh

Speaker 318:59

Uh

Speaker 118:59

Six vaudrays.

Speaker 119:08

Il enjolis c'est tam, c'estois killa de coris.

Speaker 319:13

Non sai me femme, en fain

Speaker 119:15

Yeah.

Speaker 319:15

Two

Speaker 119:16

Uh

Speaker 119:17

Uh

Speaker 119:21

Yes, sir.

Speaker 319:25

Two years on day

Speaker 319:38

Command let you apply.

Speaker 119:41

François, Les Laboucourt de Tois.

Speaker 119:47

To the love one.

Speaker 119:55

Je croix, que du peu parti.

Speaker 120:08

Well, too fabulous.

Speaker 320:11

Ready?

Speaker 320:12

Plebeian.

Presenter20:53

Last part of the soundtrack to the nineteen sixty four film Les Para Pluis de Cherbourg with Catherine Deneuve as Genevieve and Nino Castelnuovo as Guy.

Presenter21:02

M

Presenter21:03

So it was, Stephen Freers, that you came to make a feature film in the early seventies, 1971, I think, Gumshoe, with with Albert Finney, and on the strength of it, you got a

Stephen Frears21:08

We have

Stephen Frears21:10

With a friend of mine, Neville Smith, right?

Presenter21:12

Oh really? Got a job job then off the back of that really, didn't you, at the BBC?

Stephen Frears21:17

I started working at the B B C as a in

Presenter21:19

Yeah.

Stephen Frears21:19

drama department. I mean, only as a freelance, but

Presenter21:21

Why do we think of it then? Why is it always said to have been the golden period of television drama? What made it so special?

Stephen Frears21:26

People were very, very interested in the plays that were being written at the time, and they

Stephen Frears21:32

There was a sort of policy, really, of of getting the best writers in the country.

Stephen Frears21:37

To write these accounts of what it was like to to live in Britain.

Presenter21:42

So it was very much writer-led.

Stephen Frears21:43

Very much right on that, as the court had been.

Presenter21:45

But but as a director you were able presumably to get such a wonderful range of training

Stephen Frears21:50

Yes, it was like it was the I you know, we were the best trained people in the world because you simply made films. I I would make three films a year written by people like Alan Bennett or Tom Stoppart. You had very, very short schedules, but that's been a blessing in my life. So you learnt to get on with it, to be very quick.

Speaker 122:01

Yeah.

Presenter22:01

You had

Presenter22:08

There was a

Stephen Frears22:08

It was a wonderful treatment.

Presenter22:09

But you were worried what your peers thought. I mean, in a sense, I think it's a good idea.

Stephen Frears22:11

That was all I cared about, was what my you know, if your peers liked what you were doing and found it interesting, you'd get another job.

Presenter22:17

What about the

Stephen Frears22:17

Audiences.

Stephen Frears22:18

They were very large.

Presenter22:20

But I mean you didn't think about them you were you weren't making them for the audience is my point you were making

Stephen Frears22:21

Thank you.

Stephen Frears22:24

No, when I eventually started making cinema films, that was the thing that most interested me, was I started having contact with the audience. I mean, for a group of us, making these films became increasingly frustrating, and eventually we sort of burst out of the box, and the film that happened to be the one that burst out was My Beautiful Londrette, which I'd made

Speaker 122:41

Hmm.

Stephen Frears22:43

In the way I'd been making films for the last six or seven years at the B B C.

Stephen Frears22:47

And then suddenly it started playing on in New York and Paris and we couldn't work out what had happened.

Presenter22:53

But was that quite different, Laundrette? Or you say it was you it was the sort of thing you've been making well it was I mean it wasn't like Alan Bennett's Sunset Across the Bay, I remember small scale.

Stephen Frears22:58

It was.

Stephen Frears23:00

Was the Bay, I remember it was a small-scale. Yes, but it was a small-scale British film about what it was like to be a.

Stephen Frears23:08

you know, to to to to live in this communi in this Pakistani community. I'd probably got better by then and more confident.

Stephen Frears23:15

But implicitly you were doing the same thing you've been doing for years. So when I was sent the script, which I could see was very, very good, the idea of making it for the I dismissed the idea of making it for the cinema on the grounds that nobody in their right minds would go and see a film by a gay Pakistani laundrette owner and um proved to be wrong.

Presenter23:31

Uh

Stephen Frears23:31

The point about the laundrette was it went in by sort of popular request.

Presenter23:35

So you had made a commercial piece for the first time in your life.

Stephen Frears23:38

But it's

Stephen Frears23:39

First time in my life.

Presenter23:40

How did that feel?

Stephen Frears23:41

Wonderful. Intoxicating.

Presenter23:44

Really?

Stephen Frears23:44

Really? Yes, and of course then you become of interest to people and um

Stephen Frears23:48

My life changed.

Presenter23:50

Make or number five.

Stephen Frears23:52

It's a record of Elvis, and it's not really to do with my film career. The reason why I like this record is that when he made the film he was still blonde.

Stephen Frears24:00

And I always think of Elvis as a dirty blonde. I mean the most beautiful man in the world, but a blonde. And after he'd made this film, he dyed his hair dark because he wanted to look like Tony Curtis.

Presenter24:10

Is that right?

Stephen Frears24:11

That's right.

Presenter24:14

That's a terrible fact.

Stephen Frears24:15

Um, anyway, so this is Elvis singing Love Me Tender.

Presenter24:15

Uh

Stephen Frears24:19

Love.

Presenter24:19

Love me, tender, love me sweet Never let me go

Presenter24:32

You have made my life complete And I love you so

Presenter24:44

Love me.

Presenter24:46

Hinder

Presenter24:48

Love me true.

Presenter24:50

All my dreams fulfill.

Presenter24:57

For my darling, I'll love you.

Presenter25:03

And I always will.

Presenter25:10

Love me, tender, love me long Take me to your heart

Presenter25:23

For it's then that I belong, And will never part

Presenter25:35

Love me tender

Presenter25:39

Love me true.

Presenter25:41

All my dreams fulfilled

Presenter25:48

For my darling, I love you.

Speaker 325:48

Oh my

Presenter25:55

And I always will.

Presenter26:01

Love me tender, love me dear, tell me you are mine.

Speaker 126:11

R

Presenter26:14

I'll be yours through all the years Till the end of time

Presenter26:26

Love me tender, love me true, All my dreams fulfilled.

Speaker 326:26

Uh

Presenter26:39

For my darling

Speaker 126:39

Uh

Presenter26:42

Uh

Speaker 126:42

Right. I love you.

Presenter26:43

Do

Speaker 126:43

Yeah.

Presenter26:45

And I all

Speaker 126:48

Mm.

Presenter26:53

Elvis Presley and Love Me Tender. So Stephen Friz, my beautiful laundrette changed your life, gave you your entree to Hollywood because it was so successful on the other side of the Atlantic too, and there you showed this range that you'd learned at the BBC we've been discussing and you did dangerous liaisons followed by the grifters, you know, sort of eighteenth century aristocratic cynicism and

Speaker 127:08

been discussing any kids.

Speaker 127:11

Exactly.

Presenter27:15

20th century low-life cynicism, I suppose.

Speaker 127:16

I do it.

Presenter27:18

Can we define what makes a good film for you? It's just good stories and genuinely interesting characters and how they interact. Is it simply that?

Stephen Frears27:27

Yes, but

Stephen Frears27:29

Uh you know, it's it's got more complicated.

Stephen Frears27:32

There's a certain sort of anarchy that I like and a certain chaos and putting the chaos into order I think

Stephen Frears27:37

A certain subversive quality that occurs in the films of mine that seem to be most successful.

Presenter27:42

What which film would you quote as being an example of that?

Stephen Frears27:45

Well, Dangerous Daysons was a s subversive film, wasn't it? My Beautiful Andrette was subversive.

Presenter27:46

Verse 1

Presenter27:49

Mm.

Stephen Frears27:50

Uh high fidelity in its own way was subversive, dirty pretty things. My li latest film was very subverse.

Presenter27:55

So do you recognize them when you read them? Is that how it happens? A script comes and you think this is the one that's got it?

Stephen Frears27:58

And a script comes and you think this is the one that's got it. I read them and fall in love.

Presenter28:02

Yeah, it just

Stephen Frears28:03

It just grabs me, yes. I can't. People ask me what kind of film I'm looking for. I haven't a clue.

Stephen Frears28:09

I certainly respond to things very, very strongly. You know, they come out of my stomach in some complicated way. But I don't write them, and in a sense, I'm just for hire. So I can't claim to be more than that. I was at a writer's theatre and television was a writer's medium. So I've always known my place in a sense. I mean, gradually I got to the point where I could argue with writers and and um

Stephen Frears28:33

You know

Stephen Frears28:34

not just accept docile what they were writing.

Presenter28:37

Which you might have done with Alan Bennett, presumably.

Stephen Frears28:38

Well, Alan was so clever that that situation never arose.

Presenter28:42

But also you were so junior at the time, wasn't he?

Stephen Frears28:45

I used to say to him

Stephen Frears28:47

I think we've done this joke before. That was the only thing that ever worried me, that we were repeating jokes that we've made in other films.

Presenter28:52

Mm-hmm.

Stephen Frears28:53

But he was very, very clever and had worked it all out extremely cleverly. And also, I started making films about things I knew nothing about.

Presenter28:57

Real s

Stephen Frears29:01

I started making films about Pakistanis or the French in the eighteenth century or whatever it was, and I found it much easier to make films about

Stephen Frears29:09

Different Worlds

Presenter29:10

It's only gonna work if the store is Really good.

Stephen Frears29:13

Touch run.

Presenter29:14

You got pretty miserable, though, in in Hollywood. They say your career was derailed by the film you made with Dustin Hoffman, the hero. I don't know if you'd put it down to that, but it was obviously a bruising experience because it was a little bit more.

Stephen Frears29:24

Well, I could not deal with the money, to be honest. Making the film didn't seem a problem, and Dustin Hoffman was the most wo brilliant actor. Uh but it you make a film in Hollywood and it's like going into the middle of the circus and saying, Well, I'll now make a film.

Stephen Frears29:37

And I just had no grasp of that.

Presenter29:40

But it was the money you say you were embarrassed by. Well, it was the budget was too big.

Stephen Frears29:42

The budget was too big. It was on such a huge scale. Yes, but it involved plane crashes, and I didn't know how you did a plane crash cheap. And to do a the crashing plane involved rivers being diverted. Things absolutely beyond my means.

Presenter29:55

Too big for the boy brought up at the beginning.

Stephen Frears29:57

Well, in a way I'm a sort of scruffy bloke, aren't I? Now when you don't give me any money, then I have to depend on my wits. But once you start bringing money in, then people want other things.

Presenter30:06

You're a low-budget man, should you admit that?

Stephen Frears30:07

I'm irredeemably cheap, I think that's what you're trying to say.

Presenter30:11

But I mean, the whole thing was redeemed by High Fidelity, of course, which has got very good and interesting characters. And humanity.

Stephen Frears30:14

This is

Stephen Frears30:17

One of the things I discovered about going I thought I'd be very good working in Hollywood because I thought uh you know, uh because part of me had this very conventional side or I'd been brought up to be well behaved.

Stephen Frears30:31

But actually I discovered in Hollywood that I was much more independent than I realized.

Stephen Frears30:36

And I remember the head of the studio for whom we made High Fidelity saying, Make this like an independent film.

Stephen Frears30:41

Which was a inspired thing for him to say.

Presenter30:43

Hmm. So he got you taped. He knew you.

Presenter30:47

Record number six.

Stephen Frears30:49

Well, this is all now I want to go sideways because in fact in the course of my life I'd I'd married first Mary Kay Wilmers with whom I had two children Sam and Will.

Stephen Frears31:01

And then I met.

Stephen Frears31:02

And went to live with the painter Anne Rothenstein, whom I'm now I've been with for thirty years.

Stephen Frears31:08

And we have two children, so I have four children.

Stephen Frears31:12

And this is um a song.

Stephen Frears31:15

That I used to sing. I'm afraid I used to sing it with my daughter. I had three sons, and eventually a daughter came along. She was born at home, and when they said it's a girl.

Stephen Frears31:25

It had not crossed my mind that it was possible for girls to be born. I just assumed it was going to be a boy, so I was so startled by being a girl.

Stephen Frears31:32

So if I play a song that I used to sing with her, it's r I'm trying to pretend this for all my children.

Presenter31:38

Nice. I wondered where you were coming from.

Stephen Frears31:39

But they are much too smart and will know perfectly well that she is somehow

Stephen Frears31:44

Cornered some bit of the market. It's a song called Skinner Marink.

Stephen Frears31:53

Skin em a rinky dinky dink skin em a rinky

Speaker 331:55

I love you Skinny Mm-rinky Dinky Dink, Skinny Mm-rinky Doo, I love you I love you in the morning and in the afternoon I love you in the evening underneath the moon Skinnerinky Dinky Dink, Skinnema Rinky Doo I love you

Speaker 332:39

I love you in the morning and in the afternoon I love you in the evening underneath the moon Oh, skinny marinky dinky dink, skinny rinky do

Stephen Frears32:55

No

Presenter32:55

Ah

Presenter33:03

I do.

Presenter33:05

Skinnama Ink by Bob McGrath. So w what about your real families in all of this then, Stephen? You said that the you know, the people on the film, on set, on location are the family. Do does that mean the real ones get raw deals?

Stephen Frears33:17

No, I d I hope not. No, I have these four wonderful children and

Stephen Frears33:23

I have an extraordinary

Stephen Frears33:25

Stable home life.

Presenter33:26

But I can imagine that when you're consumed by a film and you're usually making a film that you really haven't got room for anything else.

Stephen Frears33:34

Well, I suppose so, but when I haven't got a film I'm fall into a sort of passive depression, so maybe they prefer it when I've got a film.

Presenter33:34

Well, I suppose so, but what

Presenter33:41

That's the point, isn't it? They get the dud end of you, really. Do you think they felt that, your children?

Stephen Frears33:43

They get the dud end of you really.

Stephen Frears33:46

Um

Stephen Frears33:47

I imagine so.

Stephen Frears33:49

The poor things.

Stephen Frears33:51

But I have worked with the people, I've worked with editors and

Stephen Frears33:54

Cameraman, George Fenton, people like that. I've worked with them a lot and become enormously fond of the people I work with.

Presenter34:00

But you see, you've gone back to talking about the people you work with again. I mean, what about the ch I wonder if your children, for example, might feel a bit abandoned by you, like you did by your father?

Stephen Frears34:11

Well, I can see it's this is sort of repetition, but um

Stephen Frears34:16

Well, if I if they do, I'm sorry.

Stephen Frears34:19

Uh I hope I make up for it in other ways.

Presenter34:22

And Annie, your partner, as you said, the last 30 years, we have.

Stephen Frears34:25

We're now married. She married me after thirty years.

Presenter34:27

Mm-hmm.

Presenter34:28

Odichi

Stephen Frears34:28

Oh, that was a compliment.

Presenter34:29

Oh, that was a compliment.

Stephen Frears34:30

Thirty years of hesitation on the brink and eventually she

Presenter34:33

You mean you've been asking for thirty years?

Stephen Frears34:35

I started asking, and then it would would fall silent, but eventually she agreed to marry me.

Presenter34:41

How long ago was that?

Stephen Frears34:42

Oh, eighteen months ago.

Presenter34:42

Oh.

Presenter34:43

Blue eyes.

Stephen Frears34:43

Hmm.

Presenter34:44

But she says that you're ambitious, that you're determined to succeed, in in it she puts it in a way that you don't seem to confess to, let me say.

Stephen Frears34:54

Well, she sees me as a man, which with all its foolishness and uh

Presenter35:00

But is she right? I mean, are you

Stephen Frears35:02

I've hoped less and less.

Stephen Frears35:05

You know, at the moment I don't know what film I'm going to make next, because I've rather enjoyed the last few films I've made, and I don't see why I shouldn't find something as interesting as as the last lot I've done. Uh so I hope the drive is getting less.

Stephen Frears35:19

I can see that's what what makes men so foolish.

Presenter35:23

Next piece meeting.

Presenter35:25

Oh, it's not music.

Stephen Frears35:26

Well, for a long time I thought one should have a theme tune from Desert Analytis or possibly the Archers because most of my life has been spent listening to what I would have called the Light Programme, but maybe Radio 4 is the home programme. So I thought a lot. Home service. So I thought a lot about Bits of the BBC.

Speaker 135:37

So I thought of home service, that's right.

Stephen Frears35:42

But I also support the Arsenal.

Stephen Frears35:44

So I thought I'd have a bit of um

Stephen Frears35:46

the programmes they have on Saturday afternoon when uh

Stephen Frears35:49

Those football commentaries, I could they've they've just been going all my life hearing those voices. So um if I may, I'd like a bit of um one of Arsenal's recent triumphs.

Speaker 336:02

For rights reasons, we're unable to bring you this choice.

Presenter36:06

That was Alan Greene commentating on Arsenal winning the FA Cup in May 2002 with Freddie Lundberg scoring the winning goal against Chelsea.

Presenter36:15

Um, Stephen, you did the uh the deal recently for television, the dramatization of the Blair-Brown Granita meeting about whether there was was or was not a pact uh that um Blair would move over and let Brown become PM.

Speaker 136:18

Be for t

Presenter36:28

Did you come um I mean, the dramatization of it apart, did you come to any great conclusion about which of them was telling the truth?

Stephen Frears36:36

Or is telling them that?

Stephen Frears36:38

Tony Bless seems capable of saying things that people can understand, but he knows that he said the opposite.

Stephen Frears36:44

So I don't think the you know, I don't I suspect that's where the problem lies.

Stephen Frears36:50

in um sort of instinct he has to make words mean one thing or another.

Presenter36:55

Hmm.

Stephen Frears36:56

People have in the past accused me of having the same quality, so maybe I identify with it.

Stephen Frears37:01

I did think that um

Stephen Frears37:03

They were all quite neurotic.

Presenter37:04

Did you?

Stephen Frears37:04

Did you?

Presenter37:05

Because presumably you went through all sorts of transcripts and tapes and things in in preparing.

Stephen Frears37:10

Well, you just do your work and and um it was incredibly interesting. The truth is it was like a s it it it was like a stumbling onto a sort of soap opera. And indeed when it was over, people just said, Well, what happens next?

Presenter37:21

Yeah.

Stephen Frears37:21

You know, as if they simply wanted the next episode.

Presenter37:24

So what's next on the on the Freer's worklist? I thought Elvis was coming up.

Stephen Frears37:26

Well there is a script about Elvis which will come in in a few days' time. And if it if God is smiling it'll be as good as I hope it'll be. In fact the Elvis President State said it was the best script they'd ever read. It it gets him right in a very, very eccentric way.

Presenter37:44

Do you know who would blame?

Stephen Frears37:46

No, and it's it's not like that. You're some you're asking I mean, you're you're not asking the right questions. There's no reason why you should know what the right questions are.

Presenter37:53

Well you tell me what they are then.

Stephen Frears37:54

No, I'm not going to tell you because I have to read the script first.

Presenter37:58

Are you excited by it or you don't know you're going to see this?

Stephen Frears37:59

I really hope it's going to be good. You're trying you're cornering me. I hope it's going to be very, very good. Um but it makes me nervous just thinking about it.

Presenter38:09

Are you always nervous before you make a film?

Stephen Frears38:11

When I read a good script.

Stephen Frears38:13

After three or four pages, I normally have to go and have a lie-down because you get nervous that it'll be a big disappoint that something will go wrong.

Stephen Frears38:20

you know, you start reading it and you you start to come to life and then I get very panicky that it'll all uh

Stephen Frears38:26

collapse and be a big disappointment, so I have to go and lie quietly in the dark room.

Presenter38:31

In the meantime, it's free as Robinson Crusoe on the desert island. I mean you know, eking out the rations as you rather did in your childhood by the side of it.

Stephen Frears38:35

Yeah.

Stephen Frears38:40

Yes, that's a grisly prospect. I can't pretend I look forward to that.

Presenter38:41

Time.

Presenter38:43

Might be a bit warmer than the uh the large houses.

Stephen Frears38:45

More than lesser, but um.

Stephen Frears38:48

It would bring out the worst in me.

Stephen Frears38:51

sulk and become passive and feel sorry for myself. The truth is I enjoy having friends and I enjoy the other people in my life too much and

Stephen Frears39:00

It would be a terrible deprivation.

Stephen Frears39:02

So I'm a rotten castaway, I apologise.

Presenter39:05

Last record.

Stephen Frears39:07

Well, this is suggested by one of my sons, my son Will, and it's.

Stephen Frears39:12

Jarvis Cocker, whom I do think's rather bright, singing at Glastonbury. It's not a song I know, but then it occurred to me that having music I didn't know on the Tez Island would might be rather more interesting than having things that I knew, because it it would give you something to learn and you would have new experiences rather than just going over old experiences. Anyway, it's um common people by pulp.

Presenter39:51

Yeah.

Presenter39:53

And a stupid thing to do Because yes think that car is true

Stephen Frears40:02

Rapid dog in the corner They will bite you and never warn you look out

Stephen Frears40:10

They'll tear your insides out.

Stephen Frears40:15

Yes everybody

Presenter40:15

He hates the till wrist, especially when it thinks it's all such a lad.

Presenter40:25

Come out in the fast you will

Presenter40:30

Feels to let your own

Presenter40:32

Don't miss it!

Speaker 141:23

What I'm doing

Presenter41:33

That was Common People by Pulp performed live at Glastonbury in 1995. Actually, it's all about being a a tourist in other people's lives, which is kind of what your films are, haven't you?

Stephen Frears41:40

Which is kind of what your films are, I'm afraid it is.

Presenter41:44

And if your son's recommended, I mean, do you think he's being nasty? Because Mr. Cocker does not approve of this. See? I mean, he's very nasty.

Stephen Frears41:50

No, I'm afraid. It might be more unconsciously penetrating than I than he knew.

Stephen Frears41:59

I don't know what was in his mind when he suggested it. He just said, Oh, it's great.

Stephen Frears42:03

I'll ask him.

Presenter42:05

Now, if you could only take one of those eight records, which one would you take?

Stephen Frears42:07

Which one would you

Stephen Frears42:09

Oh, I suppose, groucher, because it would make me laugh.

Stephen Frears42:13

Being made to laugh would we'd be very grateful for any laughter that was going.

Presenter42:17

What about your book as well as the Bible and Shakespeare?

Stephen Frears42:20

I was going to be rather serious and think, Oh, I'd like a book about

Stephen Frears42:24

you know, the f flora and fauna, or whatever you call it, on the island.

Stephen Frears42:29

But then another of my sons, Frankie, was banging on about how wonderful decline and fall of the Roman Empire was, so I suppose I'd better take that.

Presenter42:36

And your luxury.

Stephen Frears42:38

I'd like uh one of Allie's paintings.

Stephen Frears42:42

Well, I saw one last night of a of a black woman sitting on a bed.

Stephen Frears42:47

She used to do paintings of women sitting on beaches with their back to the painter, and slowly over the thirty years we've been together the figures have turned round and greet the world.

Stephen Frears42:59

And she's a wonderful painter, very um

Stephen Frears43:03

Eloquent.

Presenter43:05

Stephen Freers, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Stephen Frears43:08

Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 144:06

Uh