Paul O'Grady

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and three, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Castaway this week is a comedian. He made his name with a highly original comic creation, a Liverpool tart, with a platinum hairdo and a fondness for drink and drugs. He developed this act in pubs and clubs, took it to the Edinburgh Festival, and then started getting his own shows on television. These days he's stepping out of drag more and more, and has recently starred in a sitcom for the BBC as a bad-tempered bingo caller. But the scouse slag with the acerbic tongue remains his tour de force. She even became BBC Personality of the Year a few years ago. I think people thought I was a one-trick pony, he says. They thought Lily would soon wither and die, but she didn't. Yes, he's the man behind the makeup and the miniskirt of Lily Savage, Paul O'Grady. She is I mean, an extraordinary creation, Paul. I mean not least because, you know, before her all drag acts were kind of slinky, like Shirley Bassy, weren't they?

Paul O'Grady1:21

They were also matronly and sexless. We had Hinge in Bracketts who were fantastic, but they were two very nice matrons. Dame Edna was a matron.

Presenter1:29

And the Les Dawson win and the

Paul O'Grady1:30

With Lily. That's right. Nobody was ever sexual. You know, there was never a drought. And Lily was, she was unashamed.

Presenter1:35

It was on the sh

Presenter1:36

Yeah.

Paul O'Grady1:36

Yes. In that that she did. She turned tricks for money and and all the all that business.

Presenter1:40

But I presume that's not least because of the nature of your physique. I mean, you could hardly be a kind of lumpy, strange bosomed matron. You couldn't do an Ina Sharples act.

Paul O'Grady1:49

Not really, no, no. So you bung it all on me and and people always say, Oh, you've got fabulous legs I've got dreadful legs. I've got really I want Will Carling's legs but I've got these my mother's side legs like two woodbinds hanging out of the packets. I've got these two skinny legs. So of course you put dancers' tights on them and stelessos, they look fan I mean I was electra pretty polly. They look fantastic but in reality I won't wear shorts in the summer.

Presenter2:12

What, as a man?

Paul O'Grady2:13

No, good God, no, wild horses.

Presenter2:14

But but Lily always wears the mini sniper.

Paul O'Grady2:16

Yeah.

Presenter2:18

And the kind of courage boots, are they, or are they kind of three-quarter socks? I never know, but something that stops at the end of the day.

Paul O'Grady2:22

No, the boots, style-length boots, and and all and everything's I'm hard. I go out I I look sometimes in the in the middle and I think, I can't go out in public looking like this. I cannot go on television. I'm hardly dressed. You know, there's two tea bags in a nettle held together with a plastic butterfly or something and a and a tassel hanging off my erogenous zones and I can't go on television looking like that. But you do, you know, I do, I do. I think my mother must be turning in her grave.

Presenter2:42

But you do.

Presenter2:46

Uh did she ever see you?

Paul O'Grady2:46

That's

Paul O'Grady2:47

No, no.

Presenter2:48

No, she died.

Paul O'Grady2:49

No, she died before um before Lily read her ugly hair.

Presenter2:52

But you didn't want her to know about it, did you?

Paul O'Grady2:54

I was no'cause I thought she'd worry. As long as you made a good living, my mother didn't care, but I think show business would have worried her.

Presenter3:01

Would it? Yeah, let's see.

Paul O'Grady3:01

Yeah, Lady would have been.

Presenter3:05

But how do we explain I mean, this is the great conundrum, is how do we explain that this Liverpool slag who turns tricks, as you say, is suddenly on mainstream television? I mean, blankety blank, aren't it bloomers? I mean, Terry Wogan move over.

Paul O'Grady3:16

I mean terrible

Paul O'Grady3:19

No, God knows, I don't know what it was.

Presenter3:20

And now you're going to do the generation game.

Paul O'Grady3:22

Yep, that's not as Lily.

Presenter3:23

Oh, that's you. That's me, that's me. That's Paul O'Green.

Paul O'Grady3:24

That's me, that's me. That's Paul O'Grett. It gets very confusing, you know,'cause I get phone calls for jobs. Can we have Lily? And I say, Well, I'm not in a Lily mood, you know, and and it's a pleasure oh, go on then. Or can we have you? It's it's like the two of us in the family work, it's peculiar. But I'm what's gizzo about it though?

Presenter3:42

Innocent.

Paul O'Grady3:42

She's very much in the middle of the middle. You know exactly where she belongs. In the cupboard. In the cupboard. The wig goes on, you've got Lily, the wig comes off, you've got me.

Presenter3:43

Do you know exactly where she belie belongs? In the cupboard.

Presenter3:49

Okay, well we got you this morning. Yeah, you got me. What's your first record?

Paul O'Grady3:50

Yeah, you got me this. My first record is Joseph Locke singing I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen.

Paul O'Grady3:57

Because that reminds me of my childhood. My dad was Irish and he loved all the old Irish songs and this. If there was a family get together, somebody invariably got up and sang, I'll take you home again, Kathleen, and everybody'd sob into the whisky. And I hear it now. It duh would it bring tears to a glass eye, this song. I love it.

Speaker 14:17

I'll take you home again, Kathleen Across the ocean wide and wide.

Speaker 14:31

Your heart has ever been since first you were my blushing bride.

Presenter4:47

Joseph Locke and I'll take you home again, Kathleen. In memories of Birkenhead in what, the nineteen fifties, your childhood.

Paul O'Grady4:52

I was born 1955, so yeah, 19, say say the s early 60s.

Presenter4:56

And your mum and dad were Molly and Paddy.

Paul O'Grady4:59

Molly and Paddy. She's Molly Savage. That's the Savage from Savage came from.

Presenter4:59

She's Molly Savage, that's where she's the savage from.

Presenter5:03

But it obviously was, from what I read, a very female-dominated householders.

Paul O'Grady5:08

It was because all the men in the family were all in the navy, and those days you went to sea for a couple of years.

Presenter5:13

What, uh sort of on cruise liners or something? Or merchant navy?

Paul O'Grady5:15

Canada line, blue funnel, all merchant navy. My uncle Harold was a ch a chef on the um Queen Elizabeth.

Presenter5:17

Imagine that.

Paul O'Grady5:21

Mickey and and John, oh, they were all stewards, they're all these they always used to come up with bush babies and monkeys and American comics and I remember they brought this bush baby home once, and my auntie Annie said, Oh, isn't it lovely? Isn't it good it sleeps? All it does is sleep and they all went to bed, of course, this thing's nocturnal.

Paul O'Grady5:39

And she came down in the night and it wrecked the place, ripped the glasses off her face, tore the curtains down, and off it went to Chester Zoo, this bush baby.

Presenter5:46

That was your Auntie Annie, but it was your Auntie Chrissy who was the character, wasn't it? Or were they all?

Paul O'Grady5:47

But it was volunteer.

Paul O'Grady5:51

They were all characters'cause they were they were they were all born in real extreme poverty in Birkenhead at the turn of the century. So real Angela Asher's stuff, you know, real makes Frank McCourt look like, I don't know, the ideal home exhibition. I had a letter from an old lady once saying, Are you any relation to the Chrissy Savage I was in the war in the army with? Is this a letter to Lily? A letter to Lily, yeah. Yeah.

Presenter6:13

Yeah. So you must look like your Aunt Chrissie.

Paul O'Grady6:15

Oh God, Lily does. I don't think so. No, she was very she was a very smart woman.

Presenter6:16

Or Lily does.

Paul O'Grady6:21

Immaculately dressed. You never saw her without her makeup. And she was a clippy on the buses. So it was the shirt and tie, beautifully pressed outfit, the slacks, the little hat, the fingerless gloves, a machine slung over her shoulder, you know, her badge. I mean, she was a talker Birkenhead. She was witty and she had a great string of one liners and she was quite hard. She came across as quite hard bitten, but she wasn't at all. She was daft as a brush.

Speaker 16:30

Yeah.

Presenter6:30

Yeah.

Presenter6:45

There must be the seeds of lily in there, you can hear it.

Paul O'Grady6:47

There's got to be. I look at I think back to Auntie Chris now. I si I can see it on the bus, you know, and I think, yeah, there's a I s I sort of see where Lily was germinated really in Auntie Chris.

Presenter6:56

What about you as a little boy in all of this? I mean, you were the baby, weren't you? You were kind of two older sisters. You were a bit of an accident.

Paul O'Grady7:04

I was the last kick of a dying horse. I was the result of a liaison in a bed and breakfast in the Isle of Man. That's what I

Presenter7:09

Between your mother and father.

Paul O'Grady7:10

Yeah, that's what I always used to get told this, so you know, so

Presenter7:12

So you know

Presenter7:14

So were you indulged in? Were you switching?

Paul O'Grady7:15

You're spoilt. Dreadful. I'll admit that, yeah. I was indulged with food because'cause my mum and dad were uh I was born to older parents and they um they couldn't afford to you know, to give up work in the summer holidays. I'd go over to my dad's family in Ireland on a farm, which I loved. But I couldn't quite handle my Auntie Bridget would go out and wring a chicken's neck.

Presenter7:17

Uh

Paul O'Grady7:35

and then it be slung on the table for dinner.

Paul O'Grady7:37

And while we were eating this thing, hens would be underneath the table, you know, picking up the menu.

Presenter7:41

And you knew they were next.

Paul O'Grady7:42

And eggs. I remember my aunt Sabina saying, Eat that duck egg, this huge, smelly duck egg.

Paul O'Grady7:49

So it put me off food completely. So they used to because I was mad as on Popeye as a child, they used to have to put all food in a tin, pretending it was spinach. And you squeeze the tiny tongue. And I'd eat whatever it was then. And my sister said, oh, feel his muscles, feel his muscles. So they were they were really, when I think back, there's none of this, you know, eat that. They really indulge me. They had great imagination of that. How can we get this child to eat? I'm just the same now about food. My idea of hell is being forced to sit in a restaurant. I hate it. So if I go, say, to the Ivy now, Scylla always has to say, put his food in a can and we'll pretend it's spinach.

Presenter7:58

And you squeeze the tiny.

Presenter8:26

Take it home to Bush.

Paul O'Grady8:26

Take it home to Bush.

Presenter8:29

Tell me about record number two.

Paul O'Grady8:31

Record number two is you gotta get a gimmick and it's from a musical called Gypsy. We didn't have burlesque in this country, we had variety in musical, but the Americans had burlesque with baudy, brash, comedians, strippers. It must have been wonderful. In fact, if I could go back in time, I'd I'd be a burlesque stripper. And this to me sums up the whole thing, you gotta get a gimmick.

Speaker 18:55

Can pull all the stops out till they call the cops out. Garage or behind him, no band. But you gotta get a gimmick.

Speaker 19:07

You wanna get a

Speaker 19:12

Can sacrifice your sack row Working in the back row Both in a dumped on deck

Presenter9:23

That was You Gotta Get a Gimmick from Gypsy, sung by Linda Hart, Anna McNeely, and Christine Ebbersol. Let's go back to Birkenhead still,'cause I'm still interested I mean, who were your heroes then, or what would you and the family watch on the television? What what turned you on then?

Paul O'Grady9:36

Ken Dodd, I loved as a kid. Frankie Howard, Alf Garnet, we were mad on Alf although I wasn't allowed to watch Alf Garnet when I was a small chan, you know, that was like, Get him upstairs, get him upstairs. Language too strong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dave Allen.

Presenter9:47

Language too strong.

Paul O'Grady9:50

My mother loved because all the religious gags she understood.

Presenter9:51

Because

Presenter9:53

And do I imagine you a bit like the royal family, you know, sort of sitting round the telly or

Paul O'Grady9:56

Yeah.

Presenter9:58

Huh?

Paul O'Grady9:58

No, me mother never sat down. She used to stand in the kitchen and eat. So she'd serve the food and we'd sit down and she stood in the kitchen and shouted, Is that nice? and we'd said, That's lovely, thanks. So she never joined us for a meal, me mum, she was always on the hop.

Presenter10:11

But your mum and your dad were really, really in love, weren't they? That was the nice.

Paul O'Grady10:15

I never saw them fight. Not once. Not once. Did I and say that hand on heart? Not even crosswords. And if my dad had gone off to St Joseph's Social Club on a Sunday night and had a few scoops and he'd come in and my mother'd be sat on the couch knitting, I'd be watching the Avengers and he'd go, Oh, I'll take you home again. And she'd go, Oh, my Christ, your dad's off. And it was with great affection she said that. And he'd throw his arm round her and kiss her and say, I love you, my Molly. And he'd grab me and I'd die. And he'd say, and here's my baby. I'd be get off me, get off me, squirming. Just get away from me. Hated the pair of them. Get away from me.

Presenter10:50

Get away from

Presenter10:51

But you loved it. You were happy. It was wonderful. Oh, very, very

Paul O'Grady10:52

Oh, very, very.

Paul O'Grady10:55

They did. In fact, what happened was my mum had she had a serious heart attack. I was seventeen. She was taken into hospital, and the doctor said to my father, Oh, she's not going to last the night and my dad was dead in the morning.

Presenter11:07

Your dad was dead now.

Paul O'Grady11:07

Your dad was dead, yeah. He just collapsed on the spot. And the doctor said if I could d put on the death certificate he's died of a broken heart, then I would.

Presenter11:15

Um what about your mum?

Paul O'Grady11:16

She survived for another twelve, fourteen years.

Presenter11:19

What a terrible story.

Paul O'Grady11:20

Dreadful. I'll never forget it. I was stood next to him. He just he went down like a ton of bricks. He literally couldn't cope without my mother.

Presenter11:26

But you are a bright little boy. Got lots of O levels. Five A levels. Can this be true? No.

Paul O'Grady11:28

Yeah.

Paul O'Grady11:30

No.

Presenter11:31

Oh right.

Presenter11:32

You've been sipping again, Paul.

Paul O'Grady11:34

I probably I've been familiar journalists. I've got five O levels. No, I've got five O levels, three A levels.

Presenter11:39

Oh yeah, you have got three.

Paul O'Grady11:40

Good for you.

Presenter11:41

But then you left. You didn't want to go on in your education anywhere at all. You left and you joined social services.

Paul O'Grady11:47

Well, it to go to university wasn't an option. It was never you know, nobody ever said, Would you like to go to university? So I left and went straight into the civil service. My mother said, You know, we're getting a job with a good pension. This is sixteen.

Presenter12:00

But there was some link for some reason you wanted to do it because you thought it was going to be like the Avengers. I did. Avengers. I mean, I don't get the link.

Paul O'Grady12:03

I did. Well, I thought Civil Service, Ministry of Defence, the Avengers. I ended up working Civil Service, Steers House, Department of Health and Social Security.

Presenter12:12

You were going to be Patrick McNee though, were you with the

Paul O'Grady12:14

Or Tara King, one of the two, whatever you like, whatever you wanted, whatever mood I was in. And I did that for two years and I was lousy, absolutely lousy at the job.

Presenter12:16

Better be alive. Whatever.

Presenter12:23

And you cut and ran, and you ran to Manila, and you ended up in Gus's Bar in Manila in the Far East. Now, give me the full description.

Paul O'Grady12:30

Well, I was I was living in McCarty at the time in Manila, and there was a fabulous bar called Gussie's, The Dutch Inn, just great atmosphere, and there was a little three-piece band in the corner. I used to atrocious three-piece band who'd belt out various tunes, but one of them was very good on a harmonica, and towards the end of the night, he used to play this haunting tune. And years later, I was watching a film called Miss Sadie Thompson with Rita Hayworth, and she sang this song. I now I never knew there were lyrics to it, and I couldn't believe how the lyrics fitted and summed up to me when living in the Far East.

Speaker 313:06

Getting the blue, Pacific blue.

Speaker 313:13

The feeling you get from real bad news I wanna hear bells, I wanna see trains, I get in this mood whenever it rains.

Speaker 313:28

I'm getting a black

Presenter13:34

Rita Hayworth singing the Blue Pacific Blues. And you've made a television documentary about the Far East. I did.

Paul O'Grady13:39

I did. We did two travel shows. We did Paula Grady's Orient and Paulo Grades America and we went back to my old apartment in in Manila.

Presenter13:45

Yeah.

Paul O'Grady13:46

Howled like a wolf. Howled like a wolf.

Presenter13:49

It's where your heart is, yeah.

Paul O'Grady13:50

Yeah, I get off the plane and I think I'm home.

Presenter13:52

Hmm.

Paul O'Grady13:52

I'm home. I just relax. I totally unwind. I love the place.

Presenter13:56

But when you were whatever age, I mean your late teens, wasn't it? Early twenties, you did sort of six month your sort of six month gap year you did in Manila, okay. And then you came back and started working in London.

Paul O'Grady13:59

Doing

Paul O'Grady14:01

six month gap year you did in Manila.

Presenter14:06

As a social worker in Camden. Now what kind of work did you do?

Paul O'Grady14:09

What I actually was, it wasn't so I was a peripatetic care officer, which is a fancy title for a basically a skivvy. Say a mum went into hospital and there were five children. Rather than split the kids up and put them into various homes and stuff, I'd go in and look after them as a as a as keep them as a family unit. God knows why, because most of them are sort of the the antichrist version of the Waltons.

Presenter14:33

There's a I mean, there is a bit of an irony in the fact that you became a bit of a mum, because in fact you were already a dad by then and had sort of deserted, if you like,

Paul O'Grady14:42

Well, I was sixteen when she was conceived, and I was seventeen when she was born. And it was at the time my father had died. My mother was giving me a really bad time because she sort of blamed me for my dad's death. She n I it wasn't, but she needed somebody to blame. And she was so upset and confused. And I thought, I've got to get away. I seriously didn't want a child. I'd already said this to my daughter's mum, you know, look, she was a lot older than me as well. I said, I don't want to be a dad. I've no money. I can't. And what we did was we went to court. I said, I'll provide financially. We went to court and I was ordered to pay three pounds a week, which sounds nothing now, but when you earn six pounds a week, that's a hell of a lot of money.

Paul O'Grady15:23

So I thought I thought I've got to I'll go to London and and try and earn some money and you know that's what happened.

Presenter15:26

Hmm.

Presenter15:27

And but do you still see or do?

Paul O'Grady15:29

Love the bones of her. It's it's a real happy ending story. We got used to each other, and it's true what's in the dog comes out and the pup,'cause I'll have a go at her and she'll have a go back at me, and I can't answer her back, I can't top her.

Presenter15:40

And is she proud of you?

Paul O'Grady15:42

Yeah, she is.

Presenter15:43

Difficult actually for for a child to have a penny who dresses up as a woman.

Paul O'Grady15:45

How do you explain to your daughter your dad's Lily Savage? You know, I mean, how do you do it? But she adapted. Not she's unfazable, my daughter, and I I'm really proud to say now that yes, I do, I love her dearly.

Presenter15:58

But of course, all of that is quite confusing because we also read that you've said that you were gay from the day you were born.

Paul O'Grady16:04

Yacht, I was, what's the word I'm looking for? I don't want to say promiscuous as a teenager. Right over slag, doesn't it?

Presenter16:11

Had a large sexual activity.

Paul O'Grady16:11

Yeah.

Paul O'Grady16:12

I was precocious, sexually precocious, which coming from an Irish Catholic background you find probably find strange, but no no hang-ups at all.

Presenter16:13

Should I?

Presenter16:20

So were you gay or bisexual or what were what?

Paul O'Grady16:23

Whatever took my fancy at the time.

Paul O'Grady16:27

I was experimenting. I was, you know, I was I wasn't sexually confused'cause there was no confusion about it. You know, I I see I saw girls I really fancied. I saw fellas I fancied.

Presenter16:37

So at what point did you s decide you were gay and only fancy men?

Paul O'Grady16:39

You're too much asshole, women. I'm sorry, you're far too much hassle. Men are a lot less hassle.

Paul O'Grady16:45

So I thought I'd ship onto the lavender bus, leave the women alone.

Presenter16:49

Tell me about your next record. What is it?

Paul O'Grady16:50

My next record is Massanes Tais, which is of course the story of the Abyssinian hookah who found God. It's got no real meaning for me. It's just a piece of music that I've always loved. It's always been there. And ever it came on the radio, my mother used to do this dreadful tuneless whistle so she could

Paul O'Grady17:09

over it in the kitchen. So we'd have we always have a huge fight when it came on. Now I listen to it in the country, you know, if it comes on I'll sit down. And whenever it's like a hymn to me, this this pleasing music. Whenever it comes on, I always sit down and and just just reflect and chill out for the the five minutes or so it takes to play it.

Presenter18:23

Massonet's meditation from Thais, played by Philippe Graffin with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Yehudi Menoun. Sir Yehudi Menouin he was by then. So let's cut Paul O'Grady to 1985 and the Vauxhall Tavern in London, where you're behind the bar. What makes you suddenly think you can get up on the stage? Well, I'm supposed to.

Paul O'Grady18:41

Well, I was in a lot of I I'd been in I I was working for Camden, we used to get a lot of time off in Loo. They didn't pay us overtime, so we got all this time off in Loo, so I'd I'd do various odds odds and so on. I'd be a cleaner or a barman or whatever came along.

Paul O'Grady18:53

And I was working behind the bar on the Elephant Castle and they used to have an amateur night on a Tuesday called Ladies' Night, where they had a live compere and all these you've never seen acts like them, these acts used to get up and do all these various numbers, mime to records, and I s what I could do that, I could compare the show like that.

Presenter19:09

Oh, compare it, not do it.

Paul O'Grady19:09

Not do it. No, compared it. They said, Well, go on, then you up you get and do it. So the following week I did. Lily was born.

Presenter19:17

So you compared it as lily?

Paul O'Grady19:19

I did it as Lily, yeah, yeah.

Presenter19:21

And what made you think to put on I mean, did you put the full wig on immediately?

Paul O'Grady19:24

Well, yeah, I mean wild horses wouldn't have got me up as myself. Just no way. I'd have felt far too vulnerable.

Presenter19:31

I see that's the classic thing you're hiding behind the details.

Paul O'Grady19:33

It's a nice suit of armour. And also, I didn't want to go down the road of sequins and feathers and Shirley Bassey and all that. I thought, I want.

Presenter19:34

Mm-hmm.

Paul O'Grady19:40

I quite like this ho I had this image of this hard bitten hooker, you know, from Birkenard who was with her roots showing and her rips and her ripping her tights and a, you know, a bit of old ratty leopard skin in the big handbags.

Presenter19:52

The tattoos and the love bikes.

Paul O'Grady19:53

'Cause this is it and I love bice and all that business and you know, I had two children born out of wedlock.

Presenter19:55

So

Presenter19:57

But you never you never gone the whole hog as Ansa, you never shaved the legs, you never shaved the I mean, when you take her off, you take her off and and you're male again.

Paul O'Grady20:04

And you're male again.

Presenter20:06

That's important.

Paul O'Grady20:08

Well, you see, people going about transvestism. Now transvestism to me is somebody who stands in their bedroom in Marks and Spencer's lingerie, looking at themselves in a mirror, being sexually aroused. I can say I hate dressing up.

Paul O'Grady20:22

'Cause one it's so uncomfortable.

Paul O'Grady20:24

I I just I just don't like it at all. I don't I don't get repulsed by it when I look in the mirror. It doesn't freak me out. But it does nothing for me that way. It's it's a costume. And what do you call it?

Presenter20:32

It's

Speaker 320:32

Yeah.

Presenter20:33

And what do you call yourself?

Paul O'Grady20:34

I call myself a drag queen. Somebody says to me, What are you? A good old-fashioned drag queen, proud of it.

Presenter20:40

Echo number five.

Paul O'Grady20:41

Record number five is one of the great greatest singers, Nina Simone.

Paul O'Grady20:46

Singing one of my favourite songs, I'll put a spell on you, and she genuinely sounds like she would. She sounds like a sorceress going round her dungeon, throwing herbs in a pot.

Speaker 320:57

Put a spell on you.

Speaker 321:04

Uh

Speaker 121:04

Plus you

Speaker 321:05

Yeah.

Speaker 121:05

Um

Speaker 121:08

Do do do do do do do do do

Speaker 121:14

You better stop the things you do.

Presenter21:24

No, I lie.

Presenter21:27

Nina Zimone and I put a spell on you. So Lily, you know, went from the pubs and clubs. I mean, she became hugely famous and popular. I mean, West End Prisoner Cell Block H, the Musical.

Paul O'Grady21:38

Musical.

Presenter21:38

You did Annie, or she did Annie, can to be a little bit of a teacher

Paul O'Grady21:40

Yeah.

Presenter21:41

All the rest of it. Um, but now she's sort of slipping away,'cause you, Paul O'Grady, did jitty jitty bang bang as the child catcher. Uh you're gonna front the gen game, not her. Oh, you you're doing the sitcom I start. I mean, she are you kind of shelving her?

Speaker 121:48

Uh

Paul O'Grady21:48

That's right.

Speaker 121:49

Uh

Paul O'Grady21:52

Yeah.

Paul O'Grady21:54

I mean she

Paul O'Grady21:57

Del

Paul O'Grady21:57

She's resting, shall we say, Lily. It's just nice'cause other things have come along. And also I don't have to dress up. Well, I used to say this until I went into Chitty Bang Bang. I thought, oh, great, I don't have to dress up. I was one and a half hours putting the child catchers make up on, and then I'd be on stage for eight minutes. I thought that I can never get away from dressing up, ever.

Paul O'Grady22:18

And I'm o I'm of the opinion that if you go I don't like to go on a stage in a T shirt and jeans. That to me is not entertain not showbiz. I like to see I like a bit of juzzh. And Lily was always zhuzhed up to the nines, you know, she was always there. Good old fashioned perform

Presenter22:31

You know, she was

Presenter22:33

Good old-fashioned performance.

Paul O'Grady22:34

Exactly. You know, big efforts. Showgirls, Tiller girls, they're lots, and there's Lily in the middle. I'd never completely give her up. And I always said I'd give her up when

Paul O'Grady22:43

Public didn't want her any more, you see, and now people are saying to me, We've had enough of you. When's Lily coming back? So it looks like she's about to rear her ugly head again. I don't know what to do, I'm totally confused, career-wise.

Paul O'Grady22:53

Number six. Number six is Elvis Presley, the king himself, love him. This is my party piece actually. This is what I get up and do when I've had a few scoops. I've sung this all over the world. Every show I've done, Prison Cell Volk H, I did it. I do it in the Pounds of the Space.

Presenter23:07

So it's Lily who sings this, not you.

Paul O'Grady23:09

It's Lily who sings trouble, yeah. No, but I'll get up as myself for if we're at a party. I was in the Cafe de Paris recently, they were having an Elvis night. And they said, Will you get up? Then even got to the word up. I was on stage with the mic belting this song out.

Presenter23:11

Yeah.

Presenter23:23

If you're looking for trouble, you came to the right place. If you're looking for trouble, just look right in my face.

Presenter23:34

I was born standing up.

Presenter23:37

And talking back.

Presenter23:39

My daddy was a green hot

Presenter23:43

In Jack with water

Presenter23:45

Ah!

Speaker 123:46

Eco

Speaker 123:48

My little neck is

Presenter23:51

Elvis Presley and trouble. We talked about killing Lily off. You nearly killed yourself off last year, didn't you? I did.

Paul O'Grady23:57

I did, yeah. Not intentionally, it wasn't. Heart attack. Heart attack, yeah.

Presenter23:58

Not intentionally, it was a heart attack.

Presenter24:01

Why do you have hard televisions?

Paul O'Grady24:02

Well, my mum and dad both died of heart disease. My grandparents died of heart disease. My sisters had a heart attack. My brothers had a heart attack. So it's in the family.

Presenter24:10

So did you spot it coming?

Paul O'Grady24:11

No, I'd no warning at all.

Presenter24:13

How did it happen? How did you get it?

Paul O'Grady24:13

I've been out to a charity dinner, came home, said if I don't feel too well and instantly bang on the floor. It just happens like that. You d I didn't get any pains in the arms or or any warnings like that. Just happened.

Presenter24:24

But can't you send for your manager?

Paul O'Grady24:26

I did.

Presenter24:27

And you did your deathbeds for each other.

Paul O'Grady24:28

I did full Lana Turner deathbed speech. Play the meditation, Thais.

Paul O'Grady24:33

I ain't poppin' my clogs until the meditation's played.

Presenter24:36

Did you still have a sense of humour? Are you serious? I did. Really?

Paul O'Grady24:37

I did. I did. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't scared. I thought I was quite relaxed. There was no white lights. There was no angel going, Oh, none of that nonsense. So I just lay there and I thought, I don't think I'm going to pull out of this'cause I felt so wretched. I've never felt I've never felt anything like it before in my life.

Presenter24:54

Hmm.

Paul O'Grady24:55

And hope I never feel anything like it again.

Presenter24:57

But now what, your clubbing days are over, you're taking it.

Paul O'Grady24:59

You know, I'll go to clubs, but I'm not the last to leave. In fact, I went to a club the other night, I was only in there ten minutes, the size of a fifty year old man in Lycra dancing to Kylie Minoke, had me rushing for the doors.

Presenter25:09

And you've given up smoking and failed.

Paul O'Grady25:11

Well, this is an ongoing battle with the demon weed. I used to smoke sixty strong cigarettes a day. Now a pack of twenty will last me over a week. Seriously. And that's not me saying I have the odd one, but I do. Some days I don't have any.

Presenter25:19

Save

Presenter25:24

And but you work as hard as ever. I mean, the work schedule obviously is. Well, it's

Paul O'Grady25:27

Well in showbiz you've got no choice. And you know, people say I thought you're going to take it easy. Fine, then get out of television and theater because there's no such thing as taking it easy. You're either in demand or you're not. Oh, you're not. That's it. So, you know, there's there's go and find a nice little job or something in the Citizens Advice Bureau if you want to take it easy. But

Presenter25:35

You're either in demand or you're not.

Paul O'Grady25:44

You can't because it's early starts. It's all about money these days. Let's cram everything in. Let's let's do a sixteen hour day. So now I'm doing more, in fact, than I used to do.

Presenter25:53

And it's all about money because you don't like debt, I understand.

Paul O'Grady25:56

Saturday father deaths.

Presenter25:57

Have you got a mortgage?

Paul O'Grady25:58

I

Presenter25:59

Have you got any credit cards?

Paul O'Grady25:59

Have you got a credit card? Yes, you don't do it. No, don't do it. You earn the money and you're. You never had an overdraft. Never.

Presenter26:01

No. Don't do it.

Presenter26:04

Okay. Why is that so important to you?

Paul O'Grady26:06

I think the wolf's never far from the door with me. And because we knew what poverty was when I was a kid, it's always there, you know, and I've got great respect for money. But my tax and VAT is always sources'cause it's not my money. That's how I look at it. You know, I think it it could end tomorrow. And I'm not one of these people who'd say

Paul O'Grady26:24

Oh, well, I've had a great time. I'll go back to my council flats. I'd be livid. I'd hate everybody. I'd be eaten up with bitterness. And believe you me, once you've been used to the high life, you can't go back. So I've I take care of myself and look to the future.

Presenter26:41

No music.

Paul O'Grady26:42

Um oh well, the only one for me. I was lying in hospital when I was eleven at my appendix house and I heard this woman's voice. And I'm not exaggerating when I say I love her. I do love her. I think she's a great star. I think she's a fabulous actress. It's Barb. I always call her Barb. I never call her Streison. Let's have a bit of Barb. And it reminds me of the spring. You know, when you're wanting things to grow after the winter, you think, you know, come on, bulbs, grow. Come on, please. Let, you know, flowers bud and everything. And this is a song for me. I love it.

Speaker 327:12

Hey butts below

Speaker 127:17

Bop

Speaker 327:17

Is wet a girl?

Speaker 127:19

Go

Speaker 127:22

Up with which below can compare with

Speaker 327:28

Hurry.

Speaker 127:29

Uh

Speaker 327:29

Hmm, it's lovely.

Speaker 327:32

Have you

Speaker 127:36

Life down a whole takes a

Presenter27:40

Barbara Streisand singing Hurry, it's lovely up here, all about making the flowers grow, which is what you now do, Paul O'Grady, in your house in the country, isn't it

Paul O'Grady27:47

Shame to say. Shame to say. From nightclubs with the Rolling Stones till all hours of the morning to dealing with cattle.

Presenter27:48

James has a family.

Presenter27:54

Apparently Mick Jagger banned you from the rolling ship. He did it because you were bad influencers.

Paul O'Grady27:56

He did, he said. He did. He said I was a bad influence on Ronnie Wood. Now, I'm sorry, you think that I've got to put the brakes on now? You know, I'm turning to Janice Joplin here.

Presenter27:59

But

Paul O'Grady28:05

So I thought I've got to start.

Presenter28:08

But you live there with lots of animals, a ridiculous number of animals, cows constantly in labor and whatever it is, and pigs.

Paul O'Grady28:10

That's ridiculous.

Paul O'Grady28:11

Cow is constantly in labor and whatever it is and pigs and and buster the dog.

Presenter28:15

And Buster the Dog?

Paul O'Grady28:16

Buster, I've got two dogs, Louie and Buster.

Presenter28:18

Both shih tzus. Yeah, yeah. But no partner, you're a solitary soul in me. I am a

Paul O'Grady28:19

Yeah, yeah.

Paul O'Grady28:22

I am actually, yeah. I c I sorta I don't hunt with the pack, you know, I've done that, I've had relationships, they don't work for me. It's one thing is it's I'm very selfish, I don't like sharing a bed. I'd be like in the old American movies where they have single beds, I I'd have sort of separate rooms, separate countries. I do not'cause I might wanna get up in the middle of the night and paint or read or watch T V or

Paul O'Grady28:44

I don't know, just mooch.

Presenter28:45

But is it something more than that? Is it that, you know, I don't know, as I talked to you, you know, you're marvellous to talk to and everything, but there's something actually essentially quite private about you despite all the stories you tell.

Paul O'Grady28:53

Okay, so

Paul O'Grady28:55

Yes, there is. I do like privacy, yeah. I've got to be honest yeah, I do. I really do. I like to be a private person. So I I don't want to share my life. I know that probably sounds I've got lots and lots of good friends. I've got lots what I call back burner.

Paul O'Grady29:09

So if you you know what I mean, like if you want a little I've got intimate friends and I've got good friends and that suits me fine. I don't actually want a relationship. I don't want to say

Paul O'Grady29:21

Mine is yours and yours is mine.

Presenter29:23

So a desert island's gonna suit you fine in many ways.

Paul O'Grady29:25

Actually it wouldn't, no no, no, I'd hate it.

Presenter29:28

Yeah.

Paul O'Grady29:28

Yeah, I'd I'd get extremely

Presenter29:30

It's lovely in private.

Paul O'Grady29:31

Yeah, but I'd be bored. You know, you think, What am I going to do? You know, there's no what what do you do on Odessa's Island? And I'm going to get off.

Presenter29:39

How are you how are you gonna get off?

Paul O'Grady29:39

Yeah.

Paul O'Grady29:41

Well, I don't know, but I'll find a way. I'll get off. Believe you, mate, I will get off. Oh, yes. I'm like a pit bull. Once I get my teeth into something, I'm not letting go until I've either conquered it or I've achieved it. And also, since the heart attack, every day is a blessing now. And I think where I was lazy in the past, you know, I've learned computer skills at my time of life. I've learned to drive, I'm having flying lessons. I'm learning all learned to swim. I'm learning all these things I should have learnt years ago. I didn't. Because I was either too busy working or was too lazy or couldn't be bothered, you know. But now I can, now I've got time and I'm making, finding time to do these things.

Presenter30:16

Last record.

Paul O'Grady30:17

The last record is Carlos Gardel with one of the great tangos, La Compresita.

Speaker 130:22

Si superior de miámá.

Paul O'Grady30:26

Yeah.

Speaker 130:29

Concerpoaquel Caridio.

Presenter30:38

Yeah.

Presenter30:51

Coloss Godel and La Comparcital.

Paul O'Grady30:56

I've adored the tango. I used to go to a dance school in Liverpool called Vernon Johnson with my friend Angela Walsh, who's the actress, and we learned to tango.

Presenter30:57

Young

Paul O'Grady31:06

My God were we slick, me and Angela, when we tangoed. And I've l I th I think the tango is the only dance two men should ever do,'cause it's about two people vying for the position of top dog.

Speaker 131:08

The bumpy

Paul O'Grady31:17

Two men should be like that.

Presenter31:19

They do in Spain, don't they?

Paul O'Grady31:20

It's too heterosexual. Oh, you get two heterosexual men doing this tango. So erotic. I love that tango beat and the passion and the smouldering and the the fire and whoa God, let's have a tango soup, clear the table.

Presenter31:27

Mauldranen.

Presenter31:32

Now, if you were on your desert island and you could only have one of those, it sounds like it's got to be the tango, I dunno. Well, you can't tango by yourself on the beach, can you?

Paul O'Grady31:40

I think it'd have to be the meditation.

Presenter31:42

Oh, what this is the Death music.

Paul O'Grady31:44

Well, I'd die on a desert island, sat there in a lotus. I ate sand, so sat there in sand, Being eaten alive by mozzies, blistered by the sun. I've got Irish skin, I'm not white, I'm blue.

Presenter31:55

What about your book?

Paul O'Grady31:56

The book would be a book written by John Laird and it'd be called Shipbuilding for Beginners to get me off this arm.

Presenter32:02

This is a cheat, no you're not allowed a practical ball.

Paul O'Grady32:04

Ah, really?

Presenter32:05

Yeah, well, not if you're going to build a ship. You can read about building a ship.

Paul O'Grady32:07

But I wouldn't be allowed to build a ship. Okay, then. Then I'd tell you what book I'd take. It's a book from my childhood. It's The Borrowers by Mary Norton.

Presenter32:08

The chef.

Paul O'Grady32:14

which I was first given when I was five by my auntie. And

Paul O'Grady32:19

Just fell in love with it, and still read it now. Read it about once a month.

Presenter32:23

But you luxury.

Paul O'Grady32:24

My luxury item would be it's by Avon, it's called Skinso Soft, and it's the most effective mosquito spray I have ever, ever used. I've been in jungles in Malaysia, nothing's bitten me because of this stuff. It's wonderful.

Presenter32:39

Paula Grady with Skin So Soft. Thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert. Very well.

Paul O'Grady32:43

You're very welcome. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 332:51

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.