Jack Brabham

Speaker 20:00

This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition of Desert Island Discs. The presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:08

True.

Jack Brabham0:09

Jack, where were you born?

Jack Brabham0:10

In Sydney, Australia.

Presenter0:12

Did you take an interest in mechanical things at a very early age?

Jack Brabham0:16

Yes, um actually I think my first mechanical uh toy that I ever played with was my push bike, which I often used to take apart and put together again and take great delight in doing that. And then I eventually uh uh always wanted to play with motors of some sort.

Presenter0:33

He went to technical school in Japan.

Presenter0:36

And when you

Jack Brabham0:36

Left school?

Jack Brabham0:38

When I left school I went to work in a motor garage where I was connected with motor cars and working on motor cars.

Jack Brabham0:47

And I spent two years doing this before I joined the Air Force.

Presenter0:51

And what

Jack Brabham0:51

What did you do in the

Presenter0:52

Broiler

Jack Brabham0:52

Uh Uh

Presenter0:52

Trade and F

Jack Brabham0:53

Well, I was in the Air Force two years and uh

Jack Brabham0:56

I was in there as a uh mechanic. Engines again. Yeah, engines again on aeroplanes.

Presenter0:59

Engines again.

Jack Brabham1:02

And when you ought to mobilize?

Jack Brabham1:04

Well, when I left the Air Force I started my own small engineering business which also was connected with um the uh motor industry as well. I used to uh do a lot of repairs and make bits and pieces for motors. Mhm. And when did racing come into it?

Jack Brabham1:22

Well, racing never came into it till um nineteen forty six when uh a friend of mine who lived just nearby was very interested in uh well, he's actually a a racing driver, but not the type of racing we're doing here. This was midget cars. Yes. And um

Jack Brabham1:40

This is how I first went to watch a motor race. My first motor race I ever saw was in actual fact a midget car race. And um eventually we built a racing car between us and he drove it and uh

Jack Brabham1:53

I was the mechanic, and after a few months he gave away the driving side, and as we were stuck with the motor car I thought I'd better go out driving this thing myself, and uh that's how it started.

Presenter2:03

This is speedway racing. Speedway racing, yes.

Jack Brabham2:05

Yeah.

Presenter2:05

and within twelve months you were midget car racing champion of New South Wales.

Jack Brabham2:10

Uh yes, I had about uh

Jack Brabham2:13

Four to five years of major car racing. Yes.

Presenter2:15

You were Australian champion several times, I think.

Jack Brabham2:17

Yes, I won the Australian Championship uh twice and

Jack Brabham2:21

the New South Wales Championship about three times.

Presenter2:24

When did you decide to get into the big league with the big cars?

Jack Brabham2:28

Well, in nineteen fifty one uh I got first got interested in the road racing side from a hill climbing point of view.

Jack Brabham2:35

And I've

Jack Brabham2:36

first started using the midget car in hill climbs, which was a form of road racing.

Jack Brabham2:42

And in 1951 I won the Australian Hill Climb Championship.

Jack Brabham2:47

which uh enthused me into uh wanting to go road racing.

Jack Brabham2:51

And uh the following year I bought a Cooper.

Jack Brabham2:54

which I started um hill climbing and a bit of road racing. And this was a small car with a motorcycle engine.

Presenter3:02

Uh

Presenter3:04

What was your first?

Jack Brabham3:05

Major success.

Presenter3:06

Uh

Jack Brabham3:08

Um

Jack Brabham3:09

Well, I think when I moved into the uh bigger car, like I Cooper Bristol, for instance, was uh the first real road racing car that I owned.

Jack Brabham3:19

Out there, I won the New South Wales Championships with this car.

Jack Brabham3:24

When did you come to England, Jack?

Jack Brabham3:26

in nineteen fifty five.

Jack Brabham3:27

This was purely on spec, was it?

Jack Brabham3:30

Well, yes, it was on spec, but going back to the Cooper Bristol, of course, I uh had my first international race in this car, which was in New Zealand.

Jack Brabham3:39

for the New Zealand Grand Prix in nineteen fifty four, and I met quite a few of the overseas boys, people from here, such as Peter Whitehead and Tony Gaze and Gene Bearer and

Jack Brabham3:50

Horace Gill, this type of driver. And of course talking to them um they got me all enthusiastic about racing overseas and uh of course this was something I set my sights on and this is what I wanted to do.

Speaker 23:51

And of course

Presenter4:02

Yeah.

Jack Brabham4:03

You came a

Presenter4:03

Over here in nineteen fifty five, Jack, how did you find things? Was it easy to get started?

Jack Brabham4:09

No, actually I think um the thing that made it very difficult for me was the fact that I didn't bring my Cooper Bristol with me. What I didn't realize at the time that the car I had in Australia was a very competitive motor car and would have been very competitive here. And of course um not knowing enough about Europe and England and the way that uh motor racing was

Speaker 24:24

Yes.

Jack Brabham4:31

I um thought that um I'm bound to be able to buy a better motor car than what I had. And when I got here I found that uh well A I never had enough money to buy a motor car better than I had in Australia and um the type of motor car that was really competitive wasn't really available and the only motor cars that were for sale was a car that wasn't very competitive and I think this was the thing that um

Jack Brabham4:55

stopped me from getting on as quick as what I should have done.

Presenter4:58

What was the answer?

Jack Brabham5:00

Well I persevered with the car that I bought for the first six months and eventually realised that this wasn't getting me very far. And luckily I was able to become very friendly with John Cooper, having raced a Cooper in Australia. Naturally I went to the Cooper factory to see these cars being manufactured and I got to know John Cooper fairly well and eventually started driving in his team.

Jack Brabham5:29

What was your first Grand Prix win?

Jack Brabham5:33

The first major Grand Prix win was at Monarcho in nineteen fifty nine. And in that same year, nineteen fifty

Presenter5:39

Five to nine you won the British Grand Prix.

Presenter5:42

and there was a very close contest for the World Championship between you and Sterling Moss.

Presenter5:49

Now the World Championship is decided by a rather complicated point system, isn't it?

Jack Brabham5:54

Yes, um the the World Championship series generally consists of about approximately nine to eleven races. Not every country has the race every year, for instance. And uh the World Championships decided on uh your best results from five races, if it's about nine races, and if it went on to eleven races in the year, it would be your best result of six races. Yes. So it's not a total of the number of points you've got over the year. You just take your best five or best six results.

Speaker 26:11

Uh

Presenter6:25

In nineteen fifty nine everything depended on the result of the United States Grand Prix.

Jack Brabham6:29

Yes, the

Jack Brabham6:31

Fifty-nine one went right on to the very last race at Sebring, Laplace. Between you and and

Presenter6:36

Sterling money

Jack Brabham6:36

Boss

Presenter6:36

Uh

Jack Brabham6:36

Yes. Yes, well actually there were three of us had a chance of winning in that race. The other one was Tony Brooks.

Presenter6:36

Yeah, so

Presenter6:42

Ah yes.

Jack Brabham6:42

At that time he also had a chance of winning.

Presenter6:45

I believe you turned that race into a a kind of foot race.

Jack Brabham6:48

Yes, um on the very last lap while leading this race, uh I run out of petrol and uh

Jack Brabham6:57

I coasted right round to within about five hundred yards of the finishing line, and uh I had to push it the last five hundred yards, and this was uphill, and I can assure you this was pretty tough going, uh but this actually got me into fourth place.

Presenter7:11

And that gave you the necessary points.

Jack Brabham7:13

To become web channel.

Presenter7:13

To become world champion.

Jack Brabham7:15

Tip

Presenter7:16

And the following year, nineteen sixty, you were world champion again.

Presenter7:21

Um and then, after six years of the comparative security of the Cooper's stable, you you made a big decision.

Jack Brabham7:29

Yes, um

Jack Brabham7:31

Well, it was a big decision, really.

Jack Brabham7:33

'Cause going right back to the early days in Australia, building and uh engineering has always been uh a great interest of mine.

Jack Brabham7:42

and I always liked the idea of building r the car that uh I drive.

Jack Brabham7:48

And an Australian friend of mine out there, Ron Toranak, who uh

Jack Brabham7:53

We used to do all our building of cars together. Um I brought him over to England in nineteen sixty and uh we set up this company between us.

Speaker 27:56

Uh

Jack Brabham8:02

And uh we started manufacturing our own cars here. Yes.

Presenter8:04

Uh

Presenter8:05

This meant tremendously hard work and, well in a way, starting from scratch again.

Jack Brabham8:10

Yes, it was more or less starting from scratch and it certainly took some time to uh get going.

Jack Brabham8:16

But uh now that we've won the World Championship of course we really feel that uh it's been worthwhile.

Presenter8:22

Now, rab'em cars. How many cars do you make a year of these?

Presenter8:27

these hand tailored, hand built models.

Jack Brabham8:29

Uh

Jack Brabham8:30

We're building approximately eighty cars a year.

Presenter8:33

All racing cars.

Jack Brabham8:34

Yes, they're all racing cars and uh they're not all Grand Prix racing cars, of course. We only build

Jack Brabham8:39

the Grand Prix racing car for our own team.

Jack Brabham8:43

But we build Formula two and Formula three cars mainly, and this is the smaller type of racing that's bringing younger drivers up into Grand Prix racing.

Presenter8:55

There's no close season nowadays in.

Jack Brabham8:57

Uh

Presenter8:57

Motor racing goes on all year round.

Jack Brabham8:59

Yeah.

Jack Brabham9:00

Well, virtually all year round, the only break we do get is

Jack Brabham9:05

Just what we're having right now. Our last race was in the end of October.

Jack Brabham9:10

And our next one is the South African Grand Prix, which is the first one of the World Championship Series next year, and that's January the second.

Jack Brabham9:19

How many miles do you fly a year? Have you ever worked it out?

Jack Brabham9:22

Um yes, approximately two hundred and fifty thousand miles a year.

Jack Brabham9:27

Nearly ten times round the world.

Jack Brabham9:29

Uh must be.

Jack Brabham9:30

Uh

Presenter9:31

You fly your airplane.

Jack Brabham9:31

Yeah.

Presenter9:32

Uh

Jack Brabham9:32

Yeah. Yes, I fly my own aircraft around the European meeting, so I don't uh go as far away as America or Australia and those sort of places, of course.

Presenter9:39

Places of course.

Presenter9:41

Which is the toughest race? Which is the one that you don't exactly look forward to each year?

Jack Brabham9:47

Well, I wouldn't say there's any of the races I don't look forward to. Um

Jack Brabham9:52

The toughest race, I suppose, must be the Nürburg Ring, which is in Germany. Yes. And uh this is one race that I enjoyed winning this year very much because um

Jack Brabham10:02

Being one of the toughest races on the whole series.

Jack Brabham10:07

To win the toughest race naturally gives you an added satisfaction.

Speaker 210:10

Yes. Is this a track or or a road race?

Jack Brabham10:13

Well, it it's a track that's been laid down specially for

Jack Brabham10:18

racing in the early days, but um it is like a road race, uh same sort of conditions exactly. It's in very hilly wooded country and um it's fourteen miles round one lap, so it's quite a long way round.

Presenter10:34

PS

Presenter10:35

Does a car have to be adjusted technically for different tracks and different weather conditions?

Jack Brabham10:40

Yes, we do tune the car quite a lot for the different circuits and um different weather conditions of course we um

Jack Brabham10:49

uh alter the braking ratio a little and the handling characteristics of the car we play with, uh particularly if we know for sure it's going to be wet.

Presenter10:57

Mm-hmm.

Presenter10:58

You have to have, of course, very fast reactions indeed. Do you undertake any physical or mental training to keep those reactions fast?

Jack Brabham11:06

No, I think uh we're on the move so much and uh

Jack Brabham11:11

Uh

Jack Brabham11:12

We never get time really to uh take it easy at any time and um I don't really do anything uh

Jack Brabham11:19

in the way of a physical training.

Jack Brabham11:21

And um as far as m my diet is concerned, uh I'm a very plain eater anyway, and this has never been a great uh worry to me.

Jack Brabham11:31

Are you superstitious? No, not at all.