Sinead Cusack

Sinead Cusack0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and two, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:28

My castaway this week is an actress. Her father, a distinguished Irish actor, told her that she'd never be a classical actress because he said you haven't got the equipment. Her career has proved this judgment wrong. At the Royal Shakespeare Company, she's played a huge variety of roles, culminating in her success this year as Cleopatra. She won Best Actress Awards for her performance as an alcoholic woman dying of cancer in Our Lady of Sligo at the National a few years ago. And before and in between, she's made a host of acclaimed appearances on television and in films. These achievements she views dispassionately. I'm terrified of huge challenges, she says. I'm still amazed that I managed to achieve being a classical actress. She is Sinead Cusack. It indicates a deal of backbone, Sinead, that you did that despite what your father, Cyril Cusack, said to you. Obviously, there's a feisty, bold girl in there. There must be somewhere, because I could so easily have been undermined by my dad's judgment of me as an actress. But in fact, it spurred me on. The quote is worse than that. I think what he said was, you know, you've got a pretty little round face, blue eyes, and you'll be jolly good on film or the television. Indeed, that's exactly what he said. But why were you so determined to be a classical actress?

Sinead Cusack1:38

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack1:43

Uh

Presenter1:46

I suppose because even then I had a feeling that that was the world I would most enjoy inhabiting and it has proved so. It's instinctive, I mean and that's how you act. Yes, and also I suppose you see what what my dad forgot was that he was the role model. I'd seen him on stage much more because we weren't allowed to go to the movies when we were kids. Ridiculous irony. But we weren't and we didn't have a television till years and years later.

Sinead Cusack1:53

Uh

Speaker 41:56

Yes, and I suppose you see

Presenter2:11

Well into my teens. So what I saw was the theatre, because we went to the theatre all the time. But some offspring would have been intimidated by that. I mean, with that kind of Roman, he was so distinct. He was treated like royalty in Iceland, wasn't he? He was indeed. Well, I've always thought I fell short of his. I think he had I think he had a genius, my dad. You'd have loved him to have seen your Cleopatra, though, wouldn't you? Well, I would, but he would have probably given me a really hard time for it, you know. But you turned her down, apparently, Cleo, for twice, I think, before. Why? And why suddenly this year or last year did you accept?

Sinead Cusack2:17

Time.

Sinead Cusack2:40

I think

Sinead Cusack2:42

By six.

Presenter2:44

You talk about intimidation. Um I was thoroughly intimidated by Cleopatra. I thought, you know, that phrase that everybody remembers from the play.

Presenter2:54

A woman of infinite variety. I thought, well, you can't. How can you do that? How can you ever imagine or have the gall to think you can play such a woman? But you see, I think what really fascinates me about acting is peeling away the layers. So you pull away the iconography of Cleopatra down over the centuries, and you stop pulling it away, and you find yourself, or you, Sue, she's there. You know, the first line that Cleopatra has, and this is the genius of Shakespeare, first line she has in the play is, If it be love indeed.

Presenter3:25

Tell me how much. Now, isn't that the cry of every woman everywhere? Tell me how much you love me.

Presenter3:34

Tell me about your first record. My first record is Fine and Mellow, sung by Billie Holiday, and I would need this to soothe me and help me on my island when I first arrive.

Speaker 43:50

My man don't love me.

Speaker 43:54

Treats me all so mean

Speaker 44:01

My man, he don't love me

Speaker 44:06

Treats me off of me.

Speaker 44:13

He's the lumpiest man.

Presenter4:19

Uh

Speaker 44:19

Henry Hogg.

Presenter4:19

Melly holiday and fine and mellow.

Speaker 44:21

Mm-hmm.

Presenter4:22

There's an innate problem with the role of Cleopatra, isn't there, Sineid? Because you know you've got, as you say, to be quite experienced before you can tackle her, but at the same time she has to be devastatingly beautiful. And not a great problem for you, but I'm sure you perceived it as one, that you've got to be incredibly seductive when you're in your early fifties. I think it's what put me off playing the role for so long. And so I talked to the designer.

Sinead Cusack4:41

But a fifth is

Presenter4:48

As Dolan, and I said, These are my problems. I need to be confident enough to believe that I am Cleopatra and the most

Presenter4:58

They say, beautiful woman in the world. Although of course she wasn't. You know, I've seen on coins. I mean, she had a huge nose. Absolute hooter. Anyway, so I said to Ez, Look, what we're going to do is you're going to come to my flat in London and um I will stand in front of you stark naked and you can look at me from every angle and you can photograph me from every angle and then I want you to minimize the uh the falls. And she built my costumes around that body. So as a result you see a great deal of my body

Presenter5:31

I was going to say that you do. I mean, it isn't this kind of cliché of a kind of deep cleavage for Cleopatra, is it? It's a long, beautiful back with the kind of the dress going sort of really down to the top of your... To the other cleavage, really. That's right. And lovely fine stringing across it. Beautiful. And also pretty transparent. So you see the shape of the woman's body.

Sinead Cusack5:36

Cleopatra is it is

Sinead Cusack5:42

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack5:43

That's right.

Presenter5:52

But you don't see the stretch marks. So again, it's that sort of sexiness of being lying. Well, we want something. It's very energetic. You are very kind of acrobatic. Well, when I talked to Michael Attimore first, who was the director of Anthony and Clear,

Sinead Cusack5:56

Well, we want to.

Presenter6:04

And I said, Well, I just feel that Egypt

Presenter6:08

is Ireland. You know they sing a lot, they drink a lot, they're louche, they're wild, and that Rome is England.

Presenter6:16

Button up.

Presenter6:18

Repressed. Now this is generalization and I hope I'm not going to be taken to task for it. It's quite convincing. You were even up for live asps, I gather at one point. I was. I was very keen on the live asp, and I got a four-page memo from the RSC telling me why I couldn't have the live asp and it was a- It's against health and safety.

Sinead Cusack6:23

Quite convincing.

Sinead Cusack6:27

I was?

Sinead Cusack6:34

It's against

Presenter6:37

They said they fall asleep.

Presenter6:40

They crap.

Presenter6:41

They escape. They might kill you, I think. Yes, they will bite.

Sinead Cusack6:43

They might kill you, I think.

Presenter6:47

So you got round all of that. But what about in your personal life? Do you have a horror of aging, like so many of us do? I do. You see, I love age in other people. You know, the crow's feet and the lines of women of 80. You've said of yourself that you've got a busy face, a very Irish face, you've said. It will line significantly over the years. It already has. Well, your husband Jeremy Iron says your beauty gets more intense as you grow older. Gosh, does he? So that's all right.

Speaker 47:04

Uh

Sinead Cusack7:04

Uh

Speaker 47:04

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack7:04

Alright.

Presenter7:16

Tell me about your second record. Well, this is a song called Orosha the Vahawalia. Shne the Connor is singing it. I was educated Askoelge, which means through Gaelic. Irish was my first language pretty well. Every Irish schoolchild is taught this song. It's about the celebration of a woman called Grace O'Malley, who was a famous warrior woman, noblewoman, at the time of Elizabeth I. And it's about her coming back across the seas to claim her rightful place in Ireland and to scatter the invaders to the four winds.

Speaker 47:52

Oh, Sheda Baha Warrior, Or of Sheda Vaha Loya, Or Sheda Vaha Warrior

Speaker 48:05

Michelle Houghton Tower

Speaker 48:11

Shave and ball in or bay or grack to behave, yes.

Presenter8:21

That was uh Sinead O'Connor singing something I can't pronounce.

Presenter8:25

Go on.

Presenter8:26

Which kind of means welcome home. It does indeed. She's Sinead, you're Sinead. Is that right? What's the why why the difference? Well, I was taught by teachers from the West of Ireland, and it's a it's a softer accent.

Sinead Cusack8:34

Well I

Presenter8:41

So it's Sinead. Um Sinead O'Connor is the Dublin pronunciation. But actually my name is Jane. I was just gonna say you were born Plain Jane. I was born Plain Jane Mary. So you changed it when you were in the middle of the day. I did. I changed it when I was eleven.

Sinead Cusack8:42

Yeah.

Speaker 48:42

Uh

Sinead Cusack8:52

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack8:53

I did, I changed

Presenter8:56

And I think it was because I had, as I say, been educated through Gaelic, and I went on then to an English convent boarding school.

Presenter9:06

And I wanted to take that Irish identity with me because I was very proud of it. So I forced all my family to call me Sinead. But when they're angry with you, they call you Jane. They all call me Janie.

Presenter9:19

And you wanted you're a good Catholic girl, you wanted to be a saint, is that right? I did. Because it was a Catholic boarding school, you can ima imagine sort of religious hothouse. And I used to do deals with the Lord, you know, deals about I will remain chaste for my entire life, if you will allow me.

Presenter9:38

All that sort of thing used to go on. But you obviously wanted to be a a good girl. I mean, that was the point of all of this. You were driven, and therefore, you know, there in comes that word guilt. I presume you were riven with guilt constantly. I think pretty well all my life, and will continue to be until the day I die, probably.

Sinead Cusack9:40

But you

Sinead Cusack9:52

Okay.

Presenter9:56

Because of your failures,'cause you were failing to be a saint. Tell me about the failures,'cause they're always the interesting ones. Well, I suppose my real fall from grace was the occasion once a year of the headmistress's feast day, and every class would perform a little sketch for the entertainment of the entire school and all the nuns and teachers. And I decided to write a little sketch about the Perfumo affair.

Sinead Cusack9:59

No.

Presenter10:18

My grasp of the profumo affair, I have to say, was minimal because the nuns used to cut out all the titillating bits out of the Irish Independent, which is the only publication we got at school. I played Christine Keeler, my best friend played Mandy Rice-Davis, my other friend played Stephen Ward, and I think we got about halfway through the sketch before the nuns understood what was going on. And then mayhem, all hell broke loose. The entire day was cancelled. My father was called back from France where he was filming, and I was to be expelled. We had to get down on our knees, mother, father and myself, to beg for reinstatement. But I was made to sleep with the seven-year-olds from that point on. Well, that was a punishment.

Presenter10:57

Yes, well it is a pup

Sinead Cusack10:57

Yeah, but it is

Presenter10:58

When you're fifteen and you want to be talking about lipstick and, you know, gossiping in the dorm after lights out with your pals, and I was with the seven-year-olds. But you'd written this thing. Uh because you did write. You did you were the story teller of your siblings, weren't you? I was, yes. They used to pay me, my brothers and sisters, to tell them stories. Either in sixpences or they'd scratch my back.

Presenter11:20

So if you weren't going to be a saint, you might have been a writer.

Presenter11:23

Oh, would that I could have been I mean uh in awe.

Presenter11:27

of writers. Tell me about your third record.

Presenter11:31

My mother was a wonderful woman. She wanted us all to shine musically. So we were all put on pianos towards the age of three. I, um, unfortunately didn't really

Presenter11:44

Cut the mustard as a musician. I have a tin ear. Um but all my sisters and brothers play instruments, and my sister Nieiv, who is now an actress and doing extremely well, but she was a flute player.

Presenter11:56

And I had to have a flute piece because it was so much a part of our family life.

Presenter13:00

part of Debussy's Syrinx played by William Bennett. So your mother was keen on on all the children doing music. You say you had a tin ear, but it wasn't just that. You were ill as well, weren't you? You missed the lessons. I did, yes. I I I I had rheumatic fever when I was about uh

Sinead Cusack13:10

Thank you.

Presenter13:14

I think about eleven or ten, and I was in bed for a year.

Presenter13:20

A year. I was, yes. Well, because both my mother's parents died of rheumatic fever and she had had rheumatic fever and was left with a very bad heart as a result. But it was a bad time. And yes, I missed out on the piano practice. So by the time I came back, I was well behind my younger sister, which was just not on. But you did the reading instead? I did the reading fast. My my father used to present me with reading lists every week and he would interrogate me at the end of the week. So, you know, I couldn't sort of bluff my way through. I I I had to do the reading. But it meant that I did read all of Dickens when I was very young. And I suppose that's where it started myself. But as well as the music and the reading, theatre must have dominated Guest Childhood because, as I say, your father was treated like royalty, he was a very distinguished actor, he had his own production company, your mother ran the business side of it. I imagine you all kind of running around backstage the whole time, drinking in the atmosphere. And that would be correct. And my grandparents also were actors. They were travelling players. My my father started as an actor when he was five years old.

Sinead Cusack13:59

But it's when

Sinead Cusack14:07

Exactly.

Sinead Cusack14:10

In the a

Sinead Cusack14:14

Drinking in

Sinead Cusack14:15

And I

Presenter14:24

And he used to go to a different school every week. He used to knock on the local school and say, I'm with the actors, can I come to school? My mother was a terrific actress.

Speaker 414:29

Cube

Presenter14:32

And until she married Dad, she had a very

Presenter14:34

sort of flourishing career, but then was barefoot and pregnant from then on. So it's not surprising that you ended up doing it with whatever he thought you would or wouldn't be capable of, wasn't it? And live theatre is

Sinead Cusack14:44

Whatever

Sinead Cusack14:47

What's next? Rising the power.

Presenter14:50

continues to be what turns you on, is that as opposed to film or television, it's just all the difference in the world, is it?

Sinead Cusack14:52

Is it a

Presenter14:55

It's my heartland, really. Nothing compares with being up on that stage and what happens between an actor and an audience. It's just magical. And the thing is, when you arrive on a stage, you know, within two minutes of being on that stage, the sort of audience you've got out there. You know, whether they're going to be supportive, combative, aggressive, excited. How'd you know that? It's in you s you smell it. I don't want to sound like a lovey, but you know, you know, you've got the nose and that affects your Performance. You also know, of course, if it's begun badly, perhaps in that those early stages you're trying to rescue it and to change the nature of that audience after you're talking about it. All is lost and you give up. They are, yes, flatliners they are tonight.

Sinead Cusack15:34

Doctor of

Presenter15:41

Very good number four. Well, this again, it's really about my family, and my family are terribly important to me, my siblings.

Presenter15:47

My brother Porik, who's the youngest, he was a cello player before going on to become head of planning at the National Theatre. He, I think, gave up the cello because his concert now has got very bad, so he stopped. But he still plays. And it it's just it reminds me of my mother and of all those concerts that we used to go to, the Fesh Kjole it was called, where Irish children this still happens in Ireland, where they all come and and perform their pieces.

Presenter17:19

Opening of Caisar Franc sonata for cello in A major, played by Mischemaiski, with Martha Agerich on the piano.

Presenter17:26

You mention your brother's concert nurse. I mean, stage fright is not something, Jeannette, that is uh uh alien to you, is it? No, it plagues me. I remember the first week of Our Lady of Sligo in Oxford before we went into the National.

Presenter17:40

And I remember standing in the wings with sweat pouring off me and my body a sort of galvanic battery of shocks, thinking, What on earth am I doing?

Presenter17:50

You say to yourself constantly, you say, Sinead, it's just rock and roll. It's only a play, you know. You're not performing an operation. But it is professional life or death, isn't it, in a sense? I suppose so. She thought she could do this and she is a disaster. And you do put yourself up to be shot down because, you know, there's the critics who um

Speaker 418:01

Die.

Sinead Cusack18:03

She is a designer.

Presenter18:10

can very easily, you know, destroy But you started all this at the Abbey Theatre. I mean, you should have been going to university. You got through, didn't you? You you won a place at University of Dublin to read English and you kind of did the dirty on your parents and got into the Abbey at the same time. I did.

Sinead Cusack18:18

Okay.

Sinead Cusack18:24

Yeah.

Presenter18:24

So I then presented them with the Faita Compli and I said, there you are. And they said, well, if you want to be a member of the Abbey Theatre Company, you will also continue your university education. So for three years I led this schizophrenic existence. And in the end something had to give. Something had to give and university gave, oddly enough. Some argument about Paradise Lost. Indeed it was. Paradise Lost, my mother's favourite poem and so I, you know, I really worked hard on that essay. What what kind of parts did they give you at the Abbey? I mean did di was it a good apprenticeship?

Sinead Cusack18:42

Some argument

Sinead Cusack18:43

I think it was paradise.

Sinead Cusack18:48

Uh

Presenter18:54

Yes, um it was. There was a reservation there. Well, there was a reservation in that the the plays that were being done at the Abbey at that time were not great. We were at

Sinead Cusack18:55

Yeah.

Presenter19:02

We were billeted at a theatre called Queen's Theatre because the Abbey had burnt down and then we moved into the New Abbey Theatre and I think this is actually where it all went wrong with the Abbey. We had we opened the New Abbey Theatre with a play by Louis McNice called, appropriately enough, One for the Grave and it was loosely based around the Everyman theme and I was playing Everyman's First Love.

Presenter19:26

I was supposed to symbolise all that was pure and innocent and untouched by human hand, and I had a very, very touching little scene down the front of the stage with every man. I had to gaze out into the auditorium and say

Presenter19:38

Look at that couple in the punt over there.

Presenter19:41

And during rehearsal an actor whose name escapes me now said to me, Sinead, don't get that line wrong. I said, What do you mean wrong? He said, Well, you know.

Presenter19:51

Oh oh and it must have lodged in my breakers on the first night.

Presenter19:56

with every glitter arty in town there. The President was there, everybody, the new Abbey Theatre. I said I won't say it on radio, I've gone there but the Spoonerism happened and the audience rose to the occasion.

Presenter20:10

And I think, you know, that was the beginning of the end. Three months later I was out on my ear from the Abbey Theatre. Pick on number five.

Presenter20:19

You can't always get what you want by the Rolling Stones. Now the reason I want this record is because on my desert island of course I won't be able to get what I want. Also, I mean the Rolling Stones are part of my growing up. They were wild and anti-establishment and everything I thought I was.

Speaker 420:38

Don't always give what you want.

Speaker 420:44

Make your joy sometimes.

Speaker 320:50

Saying where it's gonna be a frustration.

Speaker 320:56

If we don't gonna blow a 50 amp fuse single tonight You can't always get what you want

Presenter21:07

You can't always get what you want by the Rolling Stones. So, Sinead Cusack, you're twenty-one years old, you come to London and you do a bit of acting here and a bit of acting there, but it's really ultimately the Royal Shakespeare Company that spots the raw talent, isn't it? I'm not sure they spotted the raw talent. I was desperate to get into the RSC, but they wouldn't let me in. But finally, by dint of, you know, furious knocking on the door, I was allowed to take over from Judy Dench in a play called London Assurance in the West End. You must have been quite good, though, to have been asked to take over from Judy Dench, for him's eh? Well, I think probably I had a quality, you know. But I had no skill in no craft and I knew it, and I knew I needed the RSC. And you've done a dua des demona in Ludlow, I read.

Sinead Cusack21:51

Meet.

Presenter21:52

One of the worst and a joyless Juliet at the Shaw Theatre. I remember some of the reviews. I mean, they were crucifying.

Sinead Cusack21:53

Yeah.

Presenter22:00

So, who was it at the RSE who said, look, this woman obviously has some talent. We can do something with this. We are going to now lend us her training. It didn't happen like that. You see, Jeremy, my husband, was doing a play called Wild Oats and he and Alan Howard and Norman Rodway. I knew the two very well and they were playing the leads. And when Lisa Harrow, who was playing the female lead, she left. And so the three boyers went to the director and said, Look, Shana's been to see the show about Turns. She'll need very little rehearsal. She knows most luns anyway. So I was allowed in. And by then, I had become rather better. And you stayed with them for a long time, years, much longer, I think. Yeah. And two babies, really. One just before, one during. Two babies, yeah. Because obviously you'd met Jeremy Irons, as you say, your husband before that.

Sinead Cusack22:39

Years, eight years, I think.

Sinead Cusack22:44

Yeah.

Presenter22:49

You you were a bold girl, you said, all the way through. You are a bold girl. And he was a shy boy. I mean, to that extent you could say it was kind of attraction of opposites. Yes, well, in every way opposites,'cause Jeremy was very English and he was middle class, you know, been to public school and all that.

Sinead Cusack22:54

And he

Presenter23:06

And I always felt, you know, a gipsy, really. There's a wonderful line. One of you must have let it out at some point. I mean, is it true that he it's sort of wonderfully romantic that when you first invited him in for coffee, he said

Presenter23:19

Indeed he did. First date. It wasn't even a date. I'd been invited to a birthday party, and Jeremy brought his girlfriend. And um I flattered outrageously all evening, and at the end of the evening he said, I think I should take you home, Janet. So I thought yes. So he dropped the girlfriend off the phone.

Presenter23:37

And then he took me home and I said, Now, would you like to come up for a cup of coffee? and he said, Yes, I would like to come up for a cup of coffee, but I better warn you, if I do, I'll stay for the rest of my life. I didn't let him up for three months.

Presenter23:53

What about both of your careers? You know, you could argue who has achieved more, but obviously he's had the more glamorous career since. I mean, at that time I think you were as well known as he was, but he's become internationally known, Oscar winning and winning star of the big screen. I mean, did you choose in all of this to kind of stay home and keep the home fires burning?

Sinead Cusack24:02

Yeah.

Speaker 424:02

BAAP

Sinead Cusack24:09

The moved.

Presenter24:16

Um no, th there was an understanding'twixt the two of us that um there would always be a parent in place. People say, you know, she must have sacrificed so much. I didn't really have to make many sacrifices, because all all I ever really wanted was

Presenter24:31

the theatre. And I was able to do that with my children. So you haven't sort of felt in Jeremy's shadow as he's becoming internationally known as No, I mean there's some galling moments where you're addressed as wife and such like. No, because I was doing what I love.

Sinead Cusack24:34

So you have

Sinead Cusack24:37

No.

Presenter24:45

And I didn't even really notice Jeremy's meteoric rise. And how easy has it been to ignore the, you know, the invasions of privacy? Because of course there have been press stories about him and so on. So it upsets me for a day or so, but no more than that.

Sinead Cusack24:48

Meteoric.

Sinead Cusack24:49

Uh

Sinead Cusack24:55

And

Sinead Cusack24:56

But later.

Presenter25:11

And you've been married for, what, twenty five years now, so something in that region, yes. Likely to be a a record for a so-called celebrity marriage. Record number six. My boys, and that includes Jeremy and Sam and Max, twenty four and seventeen, they all play guitar.

Presenter25:26

And this one all three sing and they trot it out every Christmas and every every time we're together. And I suppose they're some of the happiest moments of my life. Um so this is Brian Ferry singing Miss Ocean's Rugger.

Speaker 425:41

Miss Otis Regrets

Speaker 425:43

She's unable to lunch.

Presenter25:44

Yeah.

Speaker 425:46

Today

Speaker 425:48

Madam?

Speaker 425:50

Miss Otis regrets she's unable to lunch today.

Speaker 425:58

She is sorry to be delayed.

Sinead Cusack25:59

Are it

Speaker 426:02

But last evening down in lovers lane she strayed

Speaker 426:09

Mano

Presenter26:10

Brian Ferry and Miss Otis Regrets and Memories for Your Desert Island of Your Boys.

Presenter26:15

What do you do for your party piece then if at the end of the evening this is what they're doing? There's such sadness in my life. Um my my broth my brothers and sisters used to call me the Corncrake. You know, I have a terrible voice. Um but yes, I trot out a Gaelic song, you know, late into the evening when I really should be put to bed or something. It's really painful. But I do get the impression that when you're not acting you're you're pretty kind of

Sinead Cusack26:36

It's really p

Presenter26:40

Cavalier with yourself. I don't know if the corncrake voice got anything to do, but you smoke, don't you? You do, you drink, I do everything wrong. High stress levels, all that stuff. But but then when you get a part, a new part, a kind of new regime kicks in, does it? The professional side. Well, yes, I found a very useful way into a lot of characters is a physical discipline.

Sinead Cusack26:44

You drink I do every

Sinead Cusack26:46

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack26:47

That's awful.

Sinead Cusack26:55

Well you

Presenter27:03

And it varies. Like when I was playing Kate in the Shrew, I pumped iron. When I was playing Beatrice and Much Do, I learnt ballet. And with Cleopatra, I found Pilates to find my inner core strength. But none of these things last. They don't go on. Well, well, well, no, but they inform, don't they? But I do do a combination now of yoga and Pilates, which I just love. Makes me feel optimistic. So that's for the island, anyway. Nice bit of yoga on the beach. When you did Our Lady of Sligo May O'Hara, who wanted to be very scraggy and dying of cancer, you lost a stone and a half. I did. How did you do that?

Speaker 427:20

Well

Speaker 427:29

Yeah.

Sinead Cusack27:29

That's for the island anyway. Nice.

Sinead Cusack27:39

I did.

Presenter27:41

Well, with great ease, oddly enough. Of course it requires discipline,'cause you have to cut out all those things that you love. But I did it because she was so important to me and I knew what weight did you go down to?

Sinead Cusack27:49

And you

Presenter27:52

I went down, I suppose, to about

Presenter27:54

Eight and a half, and I normally sit at about nine, six or nine, five. And I did, I looked a bit scraggy. You must have looked because you had again, I mean, it was sort of clothes off, really. I'm afraid that one was. You know, I managed for most of my professional life to avoid all that, you know, taking my clothes off. But when I got to this one, it was a nurse giving me a bed bath, and there was something so incredibly touching. And I was

Sinead Cusack28:03

Really?

Presenter28:17

Terrified. But that moment in the play, during the production, became the most comforting and wonderful moment of my evening's trajectory. And there was no titillation, it was about two women. Certainly was no titillation. No, no, it was a devastating experience watching it. You obviously become very close to these characters, and I know with her you researched her for months beforehand, didn't you? And talked to cancer surgeons. So you become so close, and obviously to Cleo as well. What happens then when they come to an end, these people? You have to sort of quit them, leave them. It's very bad. I mean, I say I'm in mourning at the moment, which sounds very grandiose and a bit silly, but I do. I miss them because they become the closest person in your life. So at half past seven in the evening, when you would normally be walking on stage, you feel I'm a bit low.

Sinead Cusack28:34

Yeah.

Presenter29:10

It won't last, but at the moment it's a bit sad and grim.

Presenter29:15

Number seven. Oh yes, this is really for my two sons. Wonderfully, my boys are starting to introduce me to music that I probably would never have come across. So this is uh Portis Head with Glory Box.

Speaker 429:31

Give me a reason to love you.

Speaker 429:38

Uh

Speaker 429:39

Give me a reason to believe.

Speaker 429:52

I just don't wanna be

Presenter29:54

Yeah.

Presenter29:57

Portis Head with Glory Box. So, you know, these two women have gone out of your life. Where is there for a woman I'm sorry to go on about this age thing, but wh where is there for an actress in her early fifties to go next? Well, you know, I keep all check off, you see.

Sinead Cusack30:10

But you know, I can't.

Presenter30:13

Well, what have you got there? You've got a lot of stuff. Cherry, orchard, and seagull. I've got those two women still to play. You've done all the other major Shakespeare films. I have pretty well. You've done so you're right. Turn to check off. Or ask a hare or a stoppard.

Sinead Cusack30:17

See that guy?

Sinead Cusack30:22

I have pretty well.

Presenter30:28

A hair or a stoppard would do something. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Well, there we go. There's the advert dialogue.

Speaker 430:30

Yeah.

Speaker 430:32

Oh yes.

Presenter30:34

What about you on a desert island now? You know, I was thinking about this desert island and I I look back on my life and I think, well, actually, I've met some fairly exacting challenges in my time. I also live inside my head a lot. And the yoga, of course, would calm me down. I would achieve those impossible postures. And, oh, yes, what's just happened to me recently, which is interesting, maybe this is age again. I've discovered gardening. I think I'd enjoy all that, creating woodland trails around my island. Last record.

Presenter31:07

Pier Yezu from Foray's Requiem. This is just such a soaring piece of music and would keep me grounded. And I think it's just beautiful and I want to have it there, that's all.

Presenter32:16

The Piedesu from Foray's Requiem sung by Victoria de Los Angeles with the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra conducted by André Cluitance.

Presenter32:25

Now, if you could only take one of those eight records, Jeanette. I think I'd go with the PA Zoo. It is. It's too calmer on my own. Um and what about your book? You've got the Bible, you've got the complete works of Shakespeare.

Sinead Cusack32:31

It is.

Sinead Cusack32:34

Um

Presenter32:45

You're not supposed to have the c you can have it instead of the Shakespeare. What about that? Oh, no Um well, can I have the plays of Chekhov?

Presenter32:54

Yes, surely the plays. Oh, you can have two plays. Well, go on then, okay. And your luxury, go on.

Sinead Cusack32:55

Oh

Presenter33:00

Well my my for my luxury I want a very very big hat.

Presenter33:04

Um and a lot of muslin.

Presenter33:06

Is that all right? I think so. The muslin is to keep the insects up because I have an anaphylactic reaction to I I'm I'm dead within twenty minutes if I'm bitten by a wasp or a bee, so my time on the island might be very short indeed if I didn't have a lot of muslin to wrap round my big hat.

Sinead Cusack33:20

Beautiful.

Presenter33:23

Oh, I think you better have it then. I think so too. You look like Miss Havisham. Exactly. I could be miss and very Cchovian, wouldn't I look, when they rescue me? You know, swathed in muslin.

Presenter33:32

Sinead Kusek, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Sinead Cusack33:44

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.