Betty Jackson

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and two and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My Castaway this week is a fashion designer. Rebelling against the secure middle-class upbringing of her Lancashire town, she took off to the local art college and then on to Birmingham, where she studied textiles. A terrible car accident in which she lost a leg dented her confidence, but bit by bit she built it back again. By the age of thirty-two, in partnership with the man who became her husband, she launched her own label, which took all the best stores and later the world market by storm. In 1985, she won British Designer of the Year.

Presenter1:01

Those heady days are now over, but she's still regarded as one of our most experienced and level-headed fashion designers. Her clothes appeal to a wide range, from Cherie Blair to the princesses of pop. They're chic but unstructured, often witty but always wearable. I don't want people to say she's wearing my label, she says. I just want them to say she's looking stunning. She is Betty Jackson. Is it still a thrill, Betty, seeing people famous or not dressed in your clothes? I think it's the biggest thrill, and I think it's the thrill that sort of goes on and on, really.

Presenter1:35

Just the fact that somebody's gone out and chosen what you have actually created and bought it with them hard-earned cash and stuff like that. It's a great compliment. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember the first time you ever saw it? Yeah, it was very funny because I I was actually driving through Grosvenor Square and I saw this.

Speaker 31:44

Great compliment.

Betty Jackson1:45

Great.

Betty Jackson1:46

Do you remember?

Speaker 31:48

Yeah, it was

Presenter1:53

Woman walking along the pavement and screeched to a halt and wound my window down and said, Hello, how are you? And she recoiled in horror. Complete stranger. Complete stranger. And I and of course I didn't know who she was at all, but I just recognized what she was wearing. And fel I mean, felt so foolish. I can't tell you how silly I felt.

Betty Jackson2:03

Mm-hmm.

Presenter2:13

And drove off, you know, in complete confusion and leaving this sort of woman thinking that she was about to be attacked by this insight. But the temptation must have been in those early days, before you were so recognizable, to kind of loiter in department stores and see what they were doing.

Betty Jackson2:19

But the temp

Betty Jackson2:24

Yeah.

Presenter2:30

Well, it happened in a big department store in London and we delivered the new collection to this was quite a long time ago and it had only been in a couple of days and they'd sort of reported back that they were doing quite well with it. And was some woman, you know, whilst I was actually there picked something off the rails and then went along a bit further and picked about three or four things and went into the changing room and

Presenter2:52

and I just couldn't bear not to know whether she was buying it or not, and so I sort of hung around and hung around. But it took her ages, and so eventually the store manageress came across and asked me if I was um

Presenter3:05

requiring any help. Loitering within kids.

Betty Jackson3:06

Loitering with intent.

Presenter3:10

But I suppose the other side of that coin is uh you know, if in your shop uh and you currently have one someone puts something on and says, Oh, God, this is awful, you know, that must be very depressing.

Betty Jackson3:19

And at that moment

Presenter3:21

Yes, but I don't think you can please everybody all the time. And they've got to look right in it and you've got to tell them when they don't look right. When they don't look right. Otherwise they don't come back. Yeah, absolutely. And because you have to suit quite a wide section of ages, figures, style, then not everything is going to be right for everybody. So you're sort of ready for that, really. But it's always right for you. Like all sensible designers, you only wear your own clothes.

Betty Jackson3:24

And then

Speaker 33:28

Right.

Betty Jackson3:28

Otherwise

Speaker 33:28

Is it incomplete?

Betty Jackson3:29

Yeah.

Presenter3:45

You better describe how you're dressed today. Let me start by saying it's all black.

Betty Jackson3:45

You better do it.

Presenter3:50

And I've got a laced up bootlaces, we have bootlaces. It was our sort of boxer tip, and it's got a hood on it, which is quite nice. And it's nice soft leather. And then um

Betty Jackson3:52

Blue places we had.

Presenter4:02

Jersey t-shirt and a frilled skirt. Yes, the skirt is. I mean, it's a sort of slightly evening look. You just need clothes that work for you in any situation, I think. And you don't do evening clothes. In fact, you don't manufacture them. No, no, I'm not very good at evening. I never understood that ball gown thing. I sort of think that you should be able to just change your shoes and your earrings and go off anywhere. Essentially, the look is relaxed, easy, comfortable. Yeah, completely.

Betty Jackson4:11

Yeah.

Betty Jackson4:13

No, that you

Betty Jackson4:14

Yeah.

Betty Jackson4:26

Let's see.

Presenter4:28

Yeah. Not power dressing for you.

Speaker 34:30

In a

Presenter4:34

Tell me about your first record.

Presenter4:36

First record, Nina Simone, I Got Life. It's about...

Presenter4:40

The privilege of actually doing what I've always wanted to do and I suppose as I get older I'm now geriatric in the fashion world it becomes clearer and clearer that that I have been so lucky to still do it. And fundamentally I absolutely love it to be

Betty Jackson4:59

My heart and control got my back, I got my sake

Betty Jackson5:06

I've got my arms, got my hands, got my fingers, got my legs, got my feet, got my toes, got my liver, got my blood, I've got life.

Betty Jackson5:20

I got my freedom.

Presenter5:29

It's Ruby, Nina Simone, singing I Got Life. Um Betty Jackson, you you say you're geriatric as far as the fashion trade is concerned. You're in your early fifties, hardly that. But it is a a comment, really, that, on on our British fashion, isn't it? We don't have an answer to Armani or Yves Salaron or Calvin Klein, you know.

Speaker 35:43

Thank you.

Presenter5:48

all of whom seem to have developed and gone on. I mean, Armani's sixty odd now, isn't he? Why haven't we?

Presenter5:56

I think it's something to do with the structure of the business and certainly American companies.

Presenter6:01

employing your marketing manager and your sales manager first and the British

Presenter6:07

Are great at creativity but hopeless at selling themselves. I mean we were always hopeless at sell. We didn't have a sales team until really quite recently. So is it lack of business acumen or is it lack of manufacturing resources? Because again I think you have your stuff made abroad. Yeah yeah yeah. Well some of it is made here but this country you can actually make an awful lot of one thing. It's geared to the high street, Marks and Spencer's sort of production. They make 5,000 of a style and I come along and say, can you make 350 of these jackets? And of course they don't want to know because they're slightly more complicated and they're not as easy to push through a factory. But how come they want to know in Italy when they've got good make or our marketing? Because they've actually worked out a two-tier system in the factories in Italy. They see the designers that they're making 300 of a style for now, they're going to be the ones that they're going to be making 10,000. So why don't we see that as well? I've never worked that out before. And then we get people like, I mean the famous name Stella McCartney, Alexander McQueen, going abroad. You know, there's talk of a sort of designer drain. Well they're owned by Italian companies, that's all. And, you know, in a way that's right for now because I wouldn't want anybody to have to struggle as we had to struggle. So.

Betty Jackson6:10

So let me

Betty Jackson6:16

So is it got is

Betty Jackson6:23

EIA

Betty Jackson6:44

Fact trick.

Speaker 36:47

Good cause.

Betty Jackson7:02

Okay.

Betty Jackson7:04

And then

Betty Jackson7:11

In wait.

Presenter7:25

I think they're absolutely right, because at least they'll get their clothes beautifully made, beautifully manufactured, and out to the right people. But it's the old story really, isn't it? It's a bit like penicillin, you know, we we we kind of discover it, create it, as it were, and then someone else exploits it. I think though I mean certainly our colleges and our schools produce uh and just this place produces the most creative energy. I mean there'll always be another generation of creative people, I think. I think that's what we're really, really good at.

Presenter7:58

Record number two. Record number two is John Lennon, which is sort of to do with uh me being independent from my elder sister and choosing my music instead of uh Helen Shapiro and Cliff Richard. And also because it's John Lennon and I was he just was the most wonderful, um, sexiest man and I think I was in love with him from the age of about twelve and a half.

Presenter8:22

Until thirty-two or something. I just love his voice and it's a good one to dance to.

Speaker 38:33

Any old way you choose it. It's gonna back beat, you can't lose it.

Speaker 38:39

No time you use it

Speaker 38:42

Free rocko music if you wanna dance with me

Speaker 38:47

Hey, you wanna dance with me? I got no kick against my chest.

Speaker 38:52

Unless you try to play it too dumb fast And lose the beauty of the melody

Presenter8:58

The Beatles and rock and roll music and the sound of your youth, Betty Jackson, in Bake Up, nearest big town Rochdale, nearest city, Manchester. Did you go there very often? It was a bit of an excursion, really. When school holidays we used to go with my mother to

Presenter9:11

Kendall Meln, um, sit in the restaurant and she used to choose her suits for the season. They were sort of, you know, models walking around with numbers on their wrists. And um As you sat drinking your coffee.

Betty Jackson9:21

As you said

Betty Jackson9:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Presenter9:23

And it was big city, big city. It seemed huge. And then when I sort of went back, I couldn't believe how small Deansgate was. But Manchester was really where the action was, but complete sort of days' excursion. Was she very glamorous then? My mother was quite glamorous, yes. She was tall and beautiful, but be pretty used to mistake of her Ingrid Bergman on the street. I do remember her.

Betty Jackson9:36

Was she very glamorous then?

Betty Jackson9:37

My

Presenter9:46

coming down the stairs in very glamorous evening frocks. You know, used to sort of really dress up to go out. So what were you in then? Were you in sm smocked frocks and Peter Paul? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Liberty Prince. Dressed exactly as they were my sister, which I was furious about for quite a long time. And how did your father pay for all of this? What did he do? He he had a small shoe manufacturing business. So it was a sort of local industry really, because all the cotton industry had gone over to the shoe.

Betty Jackson9:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Presenter10:14

And you you went to the local grammar school and it was all pretty predictable stuff. And you were good at English and history and you were going to go to university, all all those things, absolutely straight down the line. And then suddenly, as I put it in the introduction, you rebelled.

Betty Jackson10:19

Yeah.

Betty Jackson10:20

Yeah.

Betty Jackson10:23

Hello.

Betty Jackson10:23

Absolutely.

Presenter10:29

Well, hardly a rebellion. But the only thing that I knew was what I didn't want to do. And when it came to filling in my Aka form, I just went to the headmistress and said, I'm not going to do this. And I was so frightened when I sort of sat or I think I stood opposite her. She was sitting, I was standing. And I said the first thing that came into my head was which was I'm going to go to art college. At which point she almost fell off her seat. You know, called my parents to the school and it was a big stuff.

Presenter11:03

Then I thought it was all the time of sex and drugs and rock and roll, you know, in the end of the sixties. So that was sort of very exciting stuff. So Art College was where it was at? Absolutely. Political rebellion and all of that thing was happening. But

Presenter11:17

Dad was quite clever really because he said, Ricky, you want to go to art school, you want to pursue a career in the arts, so you must go to this particular art school. So instead of sending me off to Hornsey and where it all was happening, I had to go to Rochdale. Which was five minutes down the road. Five minutes down the road. And everybody, all of my contemporaries, were all going off to Cambridge and Oxford and very glamorous places. And I went to Rochdale. Oh, gosh, it was just the worst. But anyway, the other the thing about it was that the moment I got

Betty Jackson11:35

Five minutes.

Presenter11:49

It was sort of what I'd been missing. Suddenly I found all these people who were expressing themselves in other ways, and it was the most wonderful time. It felt right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You you'd sort of instinctively known. Yeah, so it was a sort of leap into the dark as far as I was concerned, because all I could do was draw and, you know, at school we'd done perspective and I'd thrown a pot. So it was quite a thing to discover all of the things that you could do at art school, you know, lithographs and screen printing and

Betty Jackson12:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Betty Jackson12:03

Yeah, you know.

Presenter12:19

fabrics and textures and colours and painting and sculpture and all of that stuff, so it was a good decision.

Presenter12:25

Record number three.

Presenter12:27

Dusty Springfield. She's just it was her time then and I absolutely love her voice and it'll make my hair stand on end at this beginning.

Speaker 312:43

When I say

Speaker 312:45

I need it.

Speaker 312:51

Say you love me just because the lair

Speaker 312:56

You don't have to stay forever. I will understand. Believe me, believe me. I can

Presenter13:07

Dusty Springfield, and you don't have to say you love me. You um you wanted to be a s a sculptor, I think, for the Well, that was my first idea, I suppose because the only thing I knew about was fine art. There was a bit of a flaw there, though, because I'm allergic to plaster of

Betty Jackson13:13

Well that was my first

Presenter13:23

So the first time I tried, you know, you could start with sculpture and I just came up in big red blotches and I can't do it. So next best thing was fabric and texture and colour and print and pattern and putting it together. I suppose it has something in common, doesn't it? It's three-dimensional, yeah. So on you went after that foundation year in Rochdale to Birmingham College of Art and it was while you were there that you had this dreadful car accident. How did it happen?

Betty Jackson13:53

Good.

Presenter13:55

Well, I drove a car into a tree early one morning and the steering went on the car they found later. So w was your leg amputated in the accident or was it that it was quite complicated. There was a lot of things done because it was a bit sort of touch and go and uh

Betty Jackson14:04

That's it.

Presenter14:12

But the the only thing I remember is sort of hanging upside down outside of the car and somebody

Presenter14:17

running towards me. Um but anyway, everybody swung into action and and they were absolutely marvellous at uh Birmingham Accident Hospital. And I got to know my uh surgeon terribly well because he kept having to come and say he was very sorry but they'd have to operate again. So we became very good friends in fact. And then it took me quite a long time. How long did it take physically? How long did it take?

Betty Jackson14:38

Mm

Presenter14:39

I suppose to learn to stand up and move around, which I don't do terribly well even now, um, was about eighteen months, two years, I think.

Speaker 314:48

Um

Presenter14:48

And and psychologically, much longer. Well, I think you just need help with that. I think I had

Presenter14:57

So much support.

Presenter15:00

And I also think I'm sort of horribly optimistic as a person.

Presenter15:04

And, you know, dark days, of course, but when I knew I was gonna live, I don't think then

Presenter15:12

You give up, really. The the most annoying thing was all the things I had to give up, like horse riding and running for a bus and walking up and down stairs. And dancing and well, I still do dance. I still dance quite a bit, um much to the shame of my children, but uh it's all those things that are really quite annoying. Uh and also the fact that everybody, you know, tries to sort of make allowances, which I absolutely hate as well.

Betty Jackson15:22

And dancing.

Presenter15:40

Because it's just a fact now and you just get on with the rest of your life. You know. It also made me realize that you did function alone. I do believe that you come into life on your own and you leave life on your own and there's certain things that you have to deal with on your own. But it also taught me about the importance of other people around you.

Presenter16:06

You know, the help that you get and the love that you get, really.

Presenter16:11

Record number four. Well this was actually about being in Birmingham, Dancers in the Student Union and about Motown being the most fantastic sound. And um it's probably one of the saddest records, but he has the most beautiful voice as well, Smokey Robinson.

Speaker 316:29

I you see my smile all the traps of my dear

Speaker 316:43

Tomorrow I need you there.

Betty Jackson16:54

Yeah.

Presenter16:56

Smokey Robinson and the Miracles and the Tracks of My Tears. How long did you sit at home for, Betty, after the accident? Um about eighteen months I think. And how did you get going? I had a great friend at college called Adrian Cartmelt. He couldn't ever draw and I always used to do his illustrations at college. He got this fantastic job as a knitwear designer and he still couldn't draw. So he used to whiz things up the motorway to bake up. To bake up to for me to draw and then I used to send them down.

Betty Jackson17:03

Um

Betty Jackson17:22

To be cut.

Presenter17:27

And it sort of grew from there. I used to illustrate his collection, and then a couple of people saw them and wanted to use them in magazines. And it was the only thing I could do lying down, you see, so it was perfect, really. I mean, it wasn't

Presenter17:40

huge, but it was a start and I felt that I was sort of still part of something which was very important. And in the end you did get your confidence back and and you went to London and started working with a friend Wendy Dagworthy. Yeah yeah I met Wendy Dagworthy and uh she had already a little business going and good shirts I mean great shirts, great shirts, your initials that we used to put on the pocket.

Betty Jackson17:45

And it

Betty Jackson17:47

Back

Betty Jackson17:51

Yeah.

Betty Jackson17:57

Good sh

Betty Jackson17:58

Yeah.

Speaker 317:58

Nicole

Betty Jackson17:59

Uh

Presenter18:03

And I could by then drive and you know run around uh better and she couldn't. So we sort of thought um she asked me if I'd you know go and join her and I did that for two years and we had such fun, it was great. And then you were spotted. You were spotted by a company called Quorum who had several designers under their own. I mean well known for Ozzy Clark of course now. But what would they have spotted in you? Absolutely no idea. I mean absolutely no idea. I just think that they were looking and maybe I was just there at the right time. But what did you design for them? I mean this would have been mid seventies. Yeah. So we're post-maxi. We're into what? We're into kind of wide bottom trousers, tank tops. Yeah and it was I tell you what we did do. It was actually the start of the New Avengers with Joanna Lamley so we did her clothes for that. A lot of black leather. Yeah and short dresses over leggings, that sort of thing. Sounds awful doesn't it? But it was great then when she was Purdy you know. And the funny thing was that then we dressed her in that fab fifteen years later which was quite nice. Was that because you knew her? Did she come and ask you to do that? No, it well

Betty Jackson18:21

Yeah, but I mean well known Kerala.

Betty Jackson18:24

And

Betty Jackson18:35

Mm.

Betty Jackson18:39

Yeah.

Speaker 218:52

Not a black

Betty Jackson18:52

A clip

Betty Jackson19:08

Did you know?

Presenter19:09

I knew Jennifer, but in Jennifer Saunders who wrote the thing and we're good friends. And but before that it the whole introduction came through Lenny Henry and I did some stage clothes for him and then met Dawn of course and then met Jennifer and did some things for their tour and then when Jennifer wrote AbFab we were sort of sat on our terrace having a glass of wine and giggling about it and and actually she and we we just did the pilot really because um there wasn't anybody else who she knew who produced clothes really. And the whole thing was that she was so supposed to be so effortlessly stylish and Adina, played by Jennifer, got it always wrong, but spent an absolute fortune on it. So there was this sort of contrast between the coolness of Patsy. She became madder as the series went on. But it was a very exciting. It was a good thing to do. It was jolly good fun. So you were in the second half of your twenties. You were beginning to get there and then you fell in love. You better tell me about your next question.

Betty Jackson19:35

Adding it.

Betty Jackson19:37

Glingabash.

Presenter20:12

I fell in love with a Frenchman who lived in France and um we always seem to be saying goodbye really rather than hello, which of course when you're in love you seem to be. And so this is about meeting David, and also because Ella Fitzgerald has the most beautiful voice in the history of the universe, I think.

Speaker 320:31

But how strange the change from major to minor every time we say goodbye

Presenter20:58

Ella Fitzgerald and every time we say goodbye. So, um, David was a great partner for you professionally wasn't he? Yeah, he's he's the reason that we're still here, I think, probably. Because his family had uh been in bus and they'd dealt in fabrics, I think, in Marseille. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he still claims he knows nothing about fashion.

Betty Jackson21:03

Yeah.

Speaker 221:05

But here

Betty Jackson21:12

Uh

Speaker 221:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Betty Jackson21:13

Yeah.

Presenter21:16

But he was willing to sell up his share in the family business and so he had the money to start you up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We spent that very quickly indeed. But how was it in those early days? You know, it must you didn't really know what you were doing, did you? Absolutely not. I mean, it was there was no organisation it wasn't a London Fashion Week or which it is now.

Betty Jackson21:21

Yeah.

Presenter21:36

And um because I w I had been under contract to Quorum and I decided to leave, they kept me on contract until the end of August. So we had about four weeks to sort of do a collection and make it and literally went to a trade fair and hung it on a rail. And it was such an achievement to actually get the thing done.

Presenter21:58

that I remember we we sort of sat in a collapsed heap at five past nine when the exhibition opened and we had all these garments hanging on the rail.

Presenter22:07

And then Geraldine James from Harrods walked along and had a look through the rail and said, Yes, I'd like to place an order. And we hadn't even got that far. We we we'd actually not really thought about anybody buying it. We hadn't even got an order pad, so somebody had to rush out and get a triplicate book. We were so organized.

Presenter22:25

But um what about the money? How would you have had an I mean, if it went very quickly that much well it that we used that to sort of make the first sample collection and um so how are you going to finance the orders? Well we then went to the bank with the orders. I mean because we got several more. I hadn't realized because I'd had my name on the label at Quoran that people

Betty Jackson22:26

What

Betty Jackson22:29

Well it

Presenter22:45

were quite interested about what I was going to do on my own. So came see and and actually it was it was quite successful. So we went along to the bank, and that was another complete drama and, you know, when my feminist

Presenter22:59

comes to the fore because we went to see the bank manager and of course because David is male he addressed all his remarks to David, who couldn't speak any English at all at that well, hardly you know, the sky is blue, I love you, that's about it.

Betty Jackson23:10

Now

Presenter23:15

And so I had this sort of job of translating what the bank manager said to David and then translating what David said to the bank manager. I was furious by the end of the meeting.

Presenter23:24

But anyway, he did actually back the order, so that was okay. And also.

Presenter23:28

Everybody was incredibly supportive and we actually said we can't do this order unless you pay us within seven days of us delivering because we won't be able to exist. And everybody did, like a dream. Number six is sort of about um children and um running round the sitting room and dancing and uh having a good time really when they were little.

Speaker 323:55

You don't mind.

Speaker 323:57

Right, go.

Speaker 324:00

Do you remember when?

Speaker 324:03

Are we used to sing Sha la la la la la

Speaker 324:08

La la la la kiga, just like that.

Speaker 324:14

Light it down, it's Latina.

Presenter24:21

Van Morrison and Brown Eye Girl and memories for you, Betty Jackson, of dancing with your children Pascal and Oliver, who are in their mid-teens now. And am I right in thinking that that um because you had them quite late, didn't you? You you thought perhaps you couldn't, because again, because of the accident. So shouldn't have been pregnant at all, really. And thought I wasn't, thought I'd got food poisoning after a Japanese trip.

Betty Jackson24:33

Mm.

Betty Jackson24:35

Yeah, yeah.

Betty Jackson24:44

And

Presenter24:48

And uh came back and my doctor said, No, no, no, you are. And so, yes, I do count myself as fortunate to to have them.

Speaker 324:54

Hmm.

Presenter24:56

And you and David manage them and the house and the business. I mean, I know you have lots of help in there, but essentially you do it together yourself. You've not had any outside backers for the business. You've really kept it in-house.

Betty Jackson25:03

Uh

Speaker 325:03

Yeah.

Speaker 325:07

Really kept into family.

Speaker 325:09

Mm-hmm.

Presenter25:09

That must be quite tough on your relationship at times. Do you have sort of rules we we must not discuss business at home. And it w and it was very hard when the children were small. And inevitably, you know, problems that happen at the office spill over to home. But

Speaker 325:15

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter25:26

I absolutely think that David is the strength behind the company because he has had to be the horrid person, you know, who's gone along with the money or without the money and said horrid things to people, whereas I come in and be Mrs. Nice Guy, you know. So Mrs. Control, too.

Speaker 225:43

But you'll miss his

Speaker 225:46

They

Presenter25:49

Um but I think because we go to France often now I'm aware more and more of what he actually gave up to come to to do what he did, not knowing anything at all about it. But I think he's enjoyed it as well. It's been a sort of adventure, I think. And you've moved with the fortunes of the fashion in fashion business, which means that these days you're much smaller than you were because we all know there was a great dip at the end of the eighties and the recession and so on. So these days your turnover is uh round about what, a million and a half? Yeah, two probably now. Two. I mean what was it in its heyday in real turnover? Oh, the competition. We were up to sort of five, six really. So there's a big difference. I mean are you aiming to get back there again? Are you happy with the size of it as it is? I don't think I want to lose control as we did in the early eighties because it was silly and you know we had no idea of where the merchandise was going and how it was selling and

Betty Jackson26:07

There's your

Betty Jackson26:08

I think we all know.

Betty Jackson26:12

Shin and cell.

Betty Jackson26:18

I mean

Betty Jackson26:20

Oh we were up

Betty Jackson26:26

Be with

Speaker 326:28

I'm happy with the size of it as it is.

Presenter26:40

And also the quality, and I think the merch is much more considered now. I'm enjoying it much more, whereas then it was

Presenter26:48

There's whole chunks of it I can't even remember because I was obviously just so exhausted with it all. Having said that, it wouldn't matter now if the turnover did increase, because now the manufacturing base is really sorted and we know what we're doing.

Presenter27:03

Much more than we did before. So Betty Jackson could be Britain's answer to our money. We stick around. No, well, no, I don't think uh no no no, I don't think ever that, but uh record number seven.

Speaker 227:08

We stick around.

Presenter27:15

I work with a fantastic young team and we listen to m music in the studio the whole time. And of course, you know, the music director for the fashion show is introducing new music. And I just love the sounds that Maybe produces.

Presenter28:01

Moby and Porcelain. I I mentioned that you you appeal to people across the board, Betty, and and and the high profile wearers. I mentioned Cherie Blair, but we go then to Melanie Blatt, former All Saint, and the grunge goddess Courtney Love. How do you sit and design for that kind of range of age and look?

Presenter28:19

When we start a collection, so it's not just me doing it, we're a we're a little team. We choose our favourite women and it's not necessarily to do with whether they're beautiful or not, it's sort of to do with their personality and what they do in life. And so we have different sorts of women, different age groups, different and when we go through the collection we say, Okay, is this one for Charlotte Gainsborough or is it one for Charlotte Rampling or is it one and actually it really focuses you on end usage of the clothes. What's the look now then? I think it's to do with flamenco and Spanish and lots of colour and frills and mixing patterns together.

Betty Jackson28:56

What's the look now?

Presenter29:06

And what's the autumn winter kind of thing? And the autumn is a little rougher, you know, Russian émigré, chiffon with sheepskin over the top, torn edges, a bit sort of, you know, running to get out of somewhere. It's and cold, cold, cold. The last record. The last record. This is to do with friends and how important friends.

Speaker 229:08

And

Presenter29:29

are in my life and about me hating uh country music and a great friend of mine trying to make me believe in country music and another friend of mine trying to also make me believe.

Presenter29:42

And it's Emmy Lou Harris and Linda Ronsett, and we were at a lunch when she actually sat at the table and sang this beautifully unaccompanied, and it was the most magical moment with friends.

Speaker 329:56

O the sisters of mercy, they are not departed or gone.

Speaker 330:07

They were waiting for me when I thought that I just can't go on.

Speaker 330:17

When they lay down beside me, I made my confessions to them.

Presenter30:25

Emmy Lou Harris and Linda Ronstadt singing Sisters of Mercy. So if you could only take one of those eight records, Betty, which one would you take? I think it would have to be Dusty.

Presenter30:35

You don't have to say you love me. So you could sing the chorus now. Absolutely.

Betty Jackson30:38

Absolutely.

Presenter30:40

And uh what about your book? My book is Fifty Years of British Creativity, which is a sort of art book. And it it's sort of my fifty years really. I will miss going to art galleries, I will miss seeing exhibitions, because we do that a lot. So just to have the pictures there would be an absolute joy and a thrill. And what about your luxury? Well, the luxury would have to be

Presenter31:04

Red lipstick, I think, probably.

Presenter31:07

Um huge amount.

Presenter31:09

Firstly because it looks great with the tan, which I'll obviously have on a desert island, and um good moisturizer too.

Presenter31:15

And uh I want to be glamorous when I'm picked up. So uh it's an essential part. It has been an essential part of my life for the last

Presenter31:23

Thirty years, so and Patsy would approve. Probably, yeah.

Presenter31:27

Betty Jackson, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. It's been an absolute thrill, thanks.

Speaker 231:40

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.