John Lill

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and one, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Costaway this week is a pianist. An international soloist who's played with most of the world's leading orchestras, he was brought up in a working-class East London family who didn't own a piano. He was largely self-taught until the age of 11. He earned pocket money playing in pubs, and he studied at the Royal College of Music. Aged 18, he played the Emperor Concerto in the Royal Festival Hall, at which point tuition stopped and the life of the concert artist began. Seven years later, he won the pianist's most coveted prize, the Tchaikovsky Competition in Moscow, continuing a career that's made him the most successful British pianist of the 20th century. Since I was young, he says, I've had this conviction that there were people taking me over when I was playing. My hands were working beyond my normal control. He is John Lill. Those hands, of course, John, were most recently in the news when they were slashed by muggers last summer. Did you feel then that that was the end of this career of yours?

John Lill1:28

No, because uh life has many doors and playing the piano is one in for me of course very important door. But in this case I was aware, philosophically if you like that there was always teaching, that there were always other aspects in music and even other subjects because I've always been quite careful to have lots of hobbies, lots of interests in life. A lot of musicians are in danger of becoming blinkered if they're not careful.

Presenter1:47

Not as bad

Presenter1:50

So you were quite philosophical about it, were you?

John Lill1:51

I think you have to be, yes. Um at the same time I realized somehow that because I could still move

Presenter1:53

Um

John Lill1:56

my fingers. There was quite a big hope, so there was no real

John Lill2:00

Frantic worry, as far as I was concerned. It was just a mess at the time with the blood. And they are recovered now, are they fully?

John Lill2:06

It's it's still tricky to write, but I can play. It's a strange business. I suppose it's a different set of muscles that take over.

Presenter2:12

But I wonder if you were quite fatalistic about it. And certainly that's the impression I had reading reports of what happened at the time. Because somehow this talent that you have is kind of God-given, really. It came to you and therefore it could be taken away. Do you know what I mean?

John Lill2:27

And that's what

John Lill2:28

Yes, but don't forget I'd also had a very good run. I'd been uh I'd been I'd been giving thousands of concerts for many years, and people knew what I could do, and to a large degree I'd received peace of mind because of that.

Presenter2:38

So you'd used the the talent, you'd exploited it to the full at the end of the day if if it was the end.

John Lill2:44

Not to the full, but substantially, because I do feel I'm im I'm improving all the time and for that reason I don't like listening to earlier discs I've made, earlier C D's because they're predictable and boring.

Presenter2:55

But how early in your life were you aware that you had something that that was more than a kind of ordinary aptitude for the piano?

John Lill3:01

For some chemical reason or whatever, I was always drawn to the piano, and my mother had a friend uh down the street who had a beaten up old uh upright piano, and I was inseparable from this thing. I was always going along teaching myself. I think about three or four.

Presenter3:15

So you were you were knocking out tunes, were you? You were making it work.

John Lill3:18

Apparently I said that I didn't know what was taking over my hands. They were under some sort of spell, which fascinated me, and I imagine that was some sort of gift.

Presenter3:26

Well, you actually said that to your mother, did you?

John Lill3:28

according to her, yes.

Presenter3:30

At what age was that?

John Lill3:31

Three or four?

Presenter3:32

You said somebody's m making my fingers

John Lill3:33

I can't understand how the hands are working so fast. But of course, it was very crude playing in those days. It was very rough. I was very self-taught. And it took me a long time to realise I wasn't always right, because I was very headstrong, and to a certain degree I still am. Were you a difficult child? Impossible. I used to order people out of the house. I used to have a terrible temper, awful tantrums. I don't know how my parents coped, but they did.

Presenter3:55

So you were kind of child prodigy, really, were you, do you think?

John Lill3:58

Not for me to say. To me it was always more natural than speaking or kicking footballs in the streets that the other boys did. It was just how you communicated. Yes, it was natural. And this uh almost obsessive adoration of the music of Beethoven meant that I concentrated almost exclusively on his writing and learnt most of his works by the time I was a young teenager, I think.

Presenter4:17

But you're not beginning on your desert island with Beethoven, you're beginning with Brahms. Why why this one?

John Lill4:23

If I were forced to name a favourite piano concerto, I suppose I'd have to say it was the drums D minor, number one. I first heard it when I was in company with my uncle, who's been a tremendous help to me all my life.

John Lill4:34

And also my favorite pianist at that time was Claudio Arrau, the great Chilean pianist.

John Lill4:39

And it's wonderful that both the composer and the artist teamed up for this performance.

Presenter5:42

The end of Brahm's Piano Concerto No. One in D minor, played by Claudio Arrau, with the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Carlo Maria Giulini. And you you chose John L Isle Arrau, as I understand it, because he's a man after your own heart, that he he does what you seek to do, which is not to put himself above the composer.

John Lill6:01

That's very important. Um I mean, if somebody says to me, You're a marvellous pianist, I think well, that's very kind of them, but it doesn't mean much. If they say to me after a concert, What a marvellous piece that is that's a different thing. That's the job. Then I am flattered. To get in the way least.

Presenter6:12

That's the job.

John Lill6:15

Once you start tinkering around with it, you're on the wrong path.

Presenter6:15

Super

Presenter6:18

So what do people do? I mean, I don't expect you to mention any names, but what sort of interpretations do you disapprove of?

John Lill6:25

Things which are overtly theatrical for their own sake, affectations, insincerity. I rather like a direct

John Lill6:33

hopefully sincere line to the composer, and if you get in the way least, then the audience, with any luck, has the direct inspiration that possessed the composer at that time of creating that music.

Presenter6:43

So you're just a vehicle?

John Lill6:44

Exactly, exactly.

Presenter6:45

But you have to be a vehicle. It can't be as literal as that, can it? You have to be a vehicle with inspiration.

John Lill6:50

I always feel by practicing, preparing, you are cleaning a window, and outside the window there is this most beautiful picture. But if the window is misted or distorted,

John Lill7:01

Then you can't see that picture.

John Lill7:03

So the more I work, the less I'm in the way, the less I almost exist.

Presenter7:03

See why

Presenter7:06

Really? So it's a huge responsibility in that sense that you are trying to convey what Beethoven or Brilliant.

John Lill7:12

It's a vast responsibility and you can never um appreciate it fully. It can never actually happen because there are always earthbound problems that get in the way. I mean, not least the fact you know that the piano is a percussion machine. You play a note and the wretched thing dies away. You have to be an illusionist to pretend that the piano continues its sounds.

Presenter7:28

Do you do your other book?

Presenter7:30

Awful earthly things that get in the way, of course, are the coffers. Do you hate?

John Lill7:34

It's one of the

John Lill7:37

Points of the job that you get you just get used to these noises. It's funny because I think they're coughing because they're asked not to cough. You don't see people coughing very much in supermarkets or football matches. But have you ever told them of? A couple of times. I remember I was playing at some outback place in Australia and these two ladies in the front row were coughing all the way through this two-hour recital. And it I think it was a live broadcast on the ABC.

John Lill8:02

And something snapped. I was coming towards the end of Beethoven's last sonata, and something snapped, and I stood up and I said, Well, the two ladies were hell bent on destroying this concert. Kindly leave, or cough everything up now.

John Lill8:13

And the two ladies left, and of course you could have heard a pin drop. But I later found out that one was the secretary and one was the treasurer of the society. Amazing. Amazing.'Cause people talk too, don't they, during the course of the day? Yes, I I think they used to. Mozart's day, they used to talk quite a lot. They used to bring their sandwiches or whatever it was. But somehow they're

Presenter8:24

Yes, I think it's

John Lill8:31

They're not all bad. Sometimes they they show a certain

John Lill8:34

attention from the public, which almost helps the music itself. Depends on the noise. I'm very glad not to have had a telephone go off yet, but uh everything else has happened. Canoes have gone through floors and things.

Presenter8:44

Can you have gone through floors and things?

John Lill8:48

Yes, I was playing in the Midlands in a new town hall. Probably a bit too skimpishly made, but uh

John Lill8:54

I was doing the Grieg concerto, and during the concert one of the violinists kept poking his bow into my back, so I thought this man's had some sort of seizure.

John Lill9:02

I carried on playing to the end of the first movement and I

John Lill9:05

gave him a scowl. What on earth's wrong with you? He said, look at the piano and of course the legs were gradually going through the floor.

John Lill9:12

So I managed to support the instrument with my knees until the end.

Presenter9:15

While still playing.

John Lill9:16

While still playing, you can sort of do that.

Presenter9:18

Well you couldn't use the pedals if your knees are pressing upwards.

John Lill9:18

You couldn't use the pedals if you didn't use it.

John Lill9:20

Yes, I had to abandon the pedals gradually, one by one. And at the very end I had to stand up, and of course then the dramatic collapse of the piano occurred.

Speaker 39:29

I mean

John Lill9:30

I mean, people think it's a very uh serious life, and of course a lot of it is serious, but I love humour as well, and some of the funny things are unmentionably amusing. I mean the sort of things people say and uh

John Lill9:41

The regular request, you know, Do you still practice? is perhaps top of the list, or I suppose you've got a piano at home, things like that.

Presenter9:47

Yes, or my son can play like you.

John Lill9:49

Yes, he's quit yes, he's taking his Grade Two tomorrow. He he plays just like you.

Presenter9:53

Talking of Humat, tell me about your second record.

John Lill9:56

I've always been a great lover of the Goon Show.

John Lill9:59

A long time ago, but still as fresh as a daisy in my book, can we have part of the China story, where the poor man has to knock six thousand times at the door and ask for mister R Pong?

Speaker 110:11

On arrival at the tea house, as instructed, I knocked 6,000 times.

Presenter10:30

Yeah.

Speaker 110:33

Yeah.

Speaker 110:35

See how the August gloom? No.

Presenter10:37

Part of the China story from The Goon Show with Peter Sellers, Harry Secum, Spike Milligan and Ray Ellington, and memories, John Lill, of your youth in in Leighton. So you you must have had a radio then if you didn't have a piano.

John Lill10:48

There was some sort of radio. It had valves, and it was a very prehistoric beast because we didn't have electricity, we had gas.

Presenter10:55

Your father was quite a humourist. Uh

John Lill10:57

Bad He was an amateur cartoonist who.

John Lill10:59

didn't do anything uh for himself as much as he should have done. He he really had big talent, but he never made a penny out of it. So he worked in factories and uh and changed jobs and and he always looked on the cheerful side. My mother was more philosophical.

John Lill11:12

She sacrificed so much for me, the poor thing. And she could manage me, which is saying a lot. She understood me, I think the only person perhaps who has. I don't know.

Presenter11:20

But things were pretty tight. Uh were you very much aware of that as a child?

John Lill11:24

Yes, but they hid most of their poverty from me. Um but I did know that they lived from money lenders, and they gave them six pounds a week, and they received three to live on. It was quite difficult. But, I must stress, I didn't see the very worst sides. I was comparatively a spoilt brat.

Presenter11:39

What about your the boys you knew, you know, the other kids, they must have thought you were very odd, wedded to music and to a piano.

John Lill11:44

Oh wait

John Lill11:45

They thought I was a freak, but I thought they were freaks, you see.

John Lill11:49

To me it was natural to sit down and play Beethoven sonatas. That was the way you lived your life. It was crazy to see people chasing balls about in the street, which animals could do far better anyway. It's always occurred to me.

Presenter12:00

So you can't have had many friends then?

John Lill12:02

No, but the funds I had were really true and very strong, and I think quality is more important than quantity in most things.

Presenter12:08

And in the middle of all of this, you've said that Beethoven for you I mean, and as you say, by the age of fourteen, you knew certainly all his piano sonatas, didn't you, if not more.

John Lill12:17

Yeah.

John Lill12:19

He was a kind of father figure. That's right. In that sort of turbulent background, it was wonderful to have that sort of strength of mind of a composer on which to lean.

John Lill12:27

figuratively. And that gave a lot of internal strength to me.

Presenter12:31

But particularly perhaps because your own father was.

Presenter12:34

White skittish.

John Lill12:35

Yes, possibly, very possibly. Something which was stable and immensely strong to lean on in those days.

Presenter12:42

Tell me about record number three.

John Lill12:44

Still on to Beethoven. This is possibly one of his greatest works. No, I'll rephrase that. This is certainly one of his greatest works. I shouldn't be too English, should I? It's the very late quartet in C sharp minor, oppos 131, played by the Guaneri Quartet, who I think play Beethoven superbly. It's a work of such indescribable greatness and achievement, and when you consider this man was virtually deaf when he wrote it, it's all the more amazing.

Presenter14:10

The opening of Beethoven's string quartet, number fourteen in C sharp minor, played by the Guaneri Quartet. You were taken in, I I think, John, as it were, by the Lloyd Webber family at some point uh as a teenager. How did that happen?

John Lill14:23

I was doing tympani and percussion at the junior college to help out.

John Lill14:27

So I was really enjoying myself banging on the timpani, and I was aware of this very immaculately dressed, high pitched voice boy, very young, must have been about eight.

John Lill14:38

staring at the timpani and staring at me, and smiling, and week after week he was there, part of his tuition, I assumed.

John Lill14:45

And he suddenly said, My mother wants to invite you to lunch. And this was Julian, Julian Lloyd Webber.

John Lill14:51

He was a charming little boy, very squeaky voice, immaculately dressed.

John Lill14:55

And in the end I did go, and that was the beginning of a friendship which lasts until to day. I met them when I was about fourteen.

Presenter15:02

And you moved in, I think, into the this large mansion flat?

John Lill15:03

Um

John Lill15:04

No, they gave me a room uh which I could use if I needed it uh on the odd occasions I was late going to a party or going to a concert or giving one.

John Lill15:12

And after a few years um I lived in a small room in part of a flat next to them.

John Lill15:20

And it was extraordinary how these

John Lill15:22

This this

John Lill15:23

contrast of talents uh could manage to live under one roof. It was pretty cacophonous, wasn't it, in there? Oh, on one occasion, I mean, every room was deafening from because there was Andrew playing very loud rock music, Julian with his studies for cello, his father was trying to manipulate an electronic organ they had in the flat.

John Lill15:41

All manner of noises, and of course we laughed ourselves silly. And Tim Rice was in there as well. Tim Rice, well, later on, there was this flat, as I mentioned, which contained three rooms, and Tim Rice was in one of them.

Presenter15:44

To myself.

John Lill15:52

I was in another, and Jean that's the mother of the boys, Jean Lloyd Weber, her mother was in the middle.

John Lill15:57

So you had these two rampant young men, Tim Rice and myself, and in the middle was this elderly lady trying to be respectable.

Presenter15:58

What is he playing?

John Lill16:05

Chaos

Presenter16:06

You in the meantime, though, were getting very impatient, I think, at the Royal College. Was it because you thought you knew it all or Oh really?

John Lill16:14

I was arrogant. I felt that I was being put on the wrong sort of repertoire and I was anxious to learn more.

John Lill16:20

Impressive things, you know, that would impress others with a minimum of work. But you did impress.

Presenter16:23

But you did impress,'cause Adrian Bolt took you up.

John Lill16:26

Didn't you? Yes, but even now I feel that was because I could play fast and I was certainly headstrong. Which perhaps carried me through those difficult years more than otherwise. And you hit it pretty hard.

Presenter16:33

And you hit it pretty hard, I think you quite a barnstorm.

John Lill16:35

I have a reputation for that, yes, and I can often hear that on older recordings, that I didn't give the piano much kindness in some of the Fortissimo sections.

Presenter16:42

But how did you come to play the Emperor Concerto in the Royal Festival Hall at aged only eighteen?

John Lill16:47

Out of no

Presenter16:48

Oh well

John Lill16:48

Because of this Rachman Loft Number three at the Royal College with Sir Adrian Bolt, Lady Beecham um read the reviews, which apparently were very, very good, and organised a concert for me at the Festival Hall about a month later. And I was very, very fortunate in the sense that it did receive a lot of glowing press coverage.

Presenter16:48

Because of

Presenter17:03

But did that mean the end of tuition effectively? So there was a lot of technical stuff you you never did.

John Lill17:06

So there was a lot of

John Lill17:09

That's right, and now I realise it was vital to take myself to pieces as as I did after I left college, because you can't just rely on talent and speed and excellence of application alone. You've got to analyse yourself, because there comes a point where you can't get better, you can't improve. And even now when I'm playing a popular piece, I will take it to bits and learn it as if it's the first time I've played it. It's like driving a car, you can easily go into bad habits.

John Lill17:34

Tell me about your next piece of music.

John Lill17:36

This is a great contrast of mood from the last Beethoven. This is the Symphony No. eighty eight by Haydn. This is a particularly cheerful finale, conducted by normally a very uncheerful conductor, Wilhelm Furtwengler, and the combination is fascinating.

Presenter18:50

That was the beginning of the finale of Haydn's Symphony No. eighty eight in G major, played by the Berlin Philharmonic, conducted by Wilhelm Furtwengler. I suspect, um, John Lilda, the need for money as much as impatience with tuition was what drove you to seize this opportunity to become a concert pianist, wasn't it?

John Lill19:07

Yes, money is a necessary evil, I suppose. You've got to have enough.

Presenter19:10

Yes, but I suspect at the time, you know, a lot of people would have been saying to you, you can't possibly become coming from your background, you can't possibly become a concert pianist, you must find a solid proper job.

John Lill19:18

Oh yes.

John Lill19:19

But that was always said to me, you'll never succeed, because it's it's a hopeless sum.

Presenter19:20

You're never

John Lill19:23

uh road on which you you are bound to fail.

Presenter19:26

And how much do you think that that rather, as I say, uncompromising background.

Presenter19:31

Informed or still informs your playing. I wonder if it gives you a kind of deeper understanding of the sufferings of the Beethoven.

John Lill19:39

In a way I think it does, but also in my in my efforts to get rid of anything excess, concentrating on the essence instead of the excess, people sometimes think I'm very matter of fact and too close to the spirit of the of the score.

Presenter19:52

That's what they say sometimes about students.

John Lill19:54

Yes, and you can understand that, because for certain people with certain chemical leanings, it may not be perfumed enough for them. I fully understand that.

Presenter20:01

I fully am

Presenter20:02

But are you saying that's because of your background, that you y y you understand?

John Lill20:07

I would say largely, yes. And I'm not saying I'm right, of course, because no two performers play the same way. But you have to be true to yourself. That is vital. Once you start trying to compromise and join in committees as a soloist, you're certainly on the wrong track. Seems to me, the beauty of a piano recital is that it's a three-part conveyance, if you like. You've got the creator of the music, who is the composer, the recreator, who is the performer, and the receiver.

Presenter20:08

Yeah.

John Lill20:32

to the public. And once you add extra bodies, I think

John Lill20:35

You know, it's not so good.

Presenter20:36

How long was it though? Let me ask you something m more mundane. How long was it before you could actually say to your parents, Now I'm gonna sort your lives out, I'm gonna help you now?

John Lill20:46

Yes, I got very frustrated with their circumstances because they they lived in ever increasing difficulties.

John Lill20:53

Um and that was one of the reasons why I went to Moscow to participate in this Tchaikovsky competition. I thought if I did well in this I could perhaps get them out of that life of hell and get them a different place to live in. And um it worked out. The funny thing was, um

John Lill21:07

I had a very strong vision.

John Lill21:09

uh before the final performance in that competition in Moscow.

John Lill21:14

And you could call it a ghost, but it was more than that, it was more real. And the force said to me quite strongly and quite clearly, You're going to get first prize.

John Lill21:23

And I thought this has to be, you know, an element of hard work, over hard work, and I'm obviously imagining it. But I thought, well, if if the impossible happens and I do get first prize, I shall have to reconsider this, because it was such a solid material force at that time, which just disappeared.

John Lill21:37

And that's happened many times through my life. And when I'm playing and I'm feeling inspired, you know, the word inspiration, in spirit, I suppose it's related. I've actually often seen myself from outside my body. And

John Lill21:49

being aware of other forces working through me, and feeling so disastrously reluctant to go back to that

John Lill21:55

Denk Earth Shell at the end of the concert.

John Lill21:58

That to me is inspiration. It doesn't often happen, but when it does it's

John Lill22:02

It's something you never forget.

Presenter22:04

I want to ask you some more about that, but let's pause for a bit more music. Record number five first.

John Lill22:08

Sibelius.

John Lill22:09

the violin contretto, because although I'm a pianist, I'm aware that it is a percussion machine, and the sound of Heifitz playing this great violin concerto is really amazing.

Presenter23:17

Jascha Heifitz, playing part of Sibelius' violin concerto with the London Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Thomas Beecham. Um John Lill, let's just let's take you back to Moscow, because I'd like to ask you a a bit more about what you've just been talking about. You were twenty six years old, so you were there for the Tchaikovsky Piano Competition.

Speaker 123:31

Yeah.

Presenter23:35

You say it was the night before the final that you you you felt

John Lill23:39

You saw what did you see?

John Lill23:42

A person in old clothing, smiling in a strange way, unmistakably.

John Lill23:47

the shape of Beethoven and the face of Beethoven. I thought I was imagining things because uh I was working very hard for that final.

John Lill23:53

But when that's

John Lill23:55

That um

John Lill23:57

message came across that you would absolutely win first prize.

John Lill24:01

And let that be a reminder that we really are working through you. It meant a lot to me.

Presenter24:07

And how did that communicate itself? I mean, no words.

John Lill24:09

As I'm talking to you. Well, it was a very strong thought transference, if you like. The words weren't English, no, but it was a thought transference which was unmistakable, and one of many I've received before from different forces, different people.

Presenter24:19

Before that you received

John Lill24:20

Oh yes, yes. And as I said before, during concerts, um

John Lill24:25

It's very often the case that I'm aware of these forces while I'm act actually.

Presenter24:28

Other composers.

John Lill24:29

Yes, and other people. You know, it's

John Lill24:32

It's not something which is unique. It's not just for you. It's like your own voice now going over Radio Four.

John Lill24:38

You can be heard all over the world.

John Lill24:41

It's not geographically confined, and so it is with spiritual help, spiritual availability. It's always there for all people. It's not there.

Presenter24:48

So in your view it's right, so you're not a chosen woman and

John Lill24:51

Yeah.

Presenter24:52

Yeah.

John Lill24:52

No one is.

Presenter24:52

But and inevitably though people will think it sounds very mystical, slightly spooky and

John Lill24:56

Yes, and I've learnt that you can't talk about it because it's a very private personal thing. I mean

Presenter24:59

Because

John Lill25:02

Although I may have been given a musical gift, my greatest gift in life is the

John Lill25:06

Absolute evidence I've had that there is no death, that the mind does continue, and this spiritual soul does indeed carry on. The earthbound form, okay, that goes away. That is no further use. But of course, we're talking about dimensions. I mean, if you're in a room with nothing in it, people think there's nothing there. If you bring in a colour television set, they'll suddenly see you, me, or anybody else in full colour, 3D. So it's all a question of dimensions. And for people just to believe what they see, it's rather narrow and rather sad. And it's not helped by the media or most of the things people talk about or do nowadays.

Presenter25:38

So what you're saying is it it's there for everybody if you can only open yourself up.

Presenter25:44

True.

Presenter25:45

But you, it seems again, referring back to to to you as a child, uh we were talking about your hands and someone else controlling your hands, you obviously felt it quite naturally for a long time before you could intellectualize about it as you do now.

John Lill25:52

Quite naturally before you get in

John Lill25:56

Yes, it started very young. But as I say, it's wrong I've learnt it's wrong to talk about it too much because the only way I can prove these experiences that I've had is by doing what I do better than I did before, playing the piano better than I did before. Record number six.

John Lill26:11

Well, I'm afraid it's Beethoven again. I have to have two Beethovens, because, you know, it is my lifeblood.

John Lill26:17

And there have been so many great conductors of Beethoven symphonies it's very, very difficult to isolate a choice. I mean Toscanini would come to mind straight away. George Sell, so many.

John Lill26:28

But I'm a great lover of a British conductor.

John Lill26:31

Sadly, very underrated.

John Lill26:34

James Loughran.

John Lill26:35

And he is a wonderful Beethoven conductor. We've given many, many concerts together, and I think his sense of strength and structure in Beethoven in particular is quite wonderful. So let's hear the very beginning of the Eurica Symphony, conducted by Lochron.

Presenter27:48

Beginning of Beethoven's Symphony No. 3, The Eroica, played by the Halley Orchestra, conducted by James Locheran, one of your favourite conductors. Are there others? Who is your?

John Lill27:57

Invariably you work with hundreds of conductors and a few of them you don't particularly care for, but most of them you do like.

Presenter28:02

But of course everything has to be right in these moments, doesn't it? It's not just the conductor, it's it's the audience too, I suppose. It's just everything has to come together to make

Presenter28:12

A perfect performance.

John Lill28:13

When they do come together, which is fairly rare, you've got a memorable evening, because it is so rare. Normally you've got several things right and something might go wrong. You might have a noisy public but an outstanding orchestra. You might have an inspired feeling, but a rotten piano. But when it all happens, and it can, then that's something that really makes your life worth living.

Presenter28:31

Can it has it ever been completely right for you? Can you remember one concept?

John Lill28:35

Most recently, uh last December in Manchester, uh all the conditions were right and uh I remember feeling truly inspired and it was Beethoven number one concerto with the BBC Philharmonic, a marvellous orchestra. In the Bridgewater Halls. Yes, which is my favourite British Hall by the way. And before then it might happen once or twice a season at the most out of say eighty or a hundred concerts.

Presenter28:49

Oh yes.

Presenter28:57

Because you don't much care. I know you've done some recordings, but you don't much care for it, do you? Because.

John Lill29:01

No.

Presenter29:01

Because you believe the music must be in the moment, of the moment.

John Lill29:05

At a concert, a public concert, you have an extra dimension which you can't get in a studio because it is so artificial. And once you've recorded something, it may be correct, but it's predictable and dull because you know exactly what's coming round the corner. And if you play a recording first thing in the morning and you play it last thing at night, it's going to sound wrong for one of those occasions, if not both. I see, so it's only right in the moment for you. I think so. And a concert, if it's recorded by the BBC or any other organisation and played back at some other time of the day or season.

John Lill29:36

or even temperature, it can sound wrong.

Presenter29:38

Do all of those uh principles and and and views also hold good for playing in a pub?

Presenter29:45

Yeah.

John Lill29:45

No doubt. Although I should think people would be a bit more tolerant and lax about the um the lapses of uh tempo judgment and interpretation.

Presenter29:53

But you have judged pub piano play, haven't you?

John Lill29:56

It was very amusing. Some years ago I was adjudicating the Leeds one of the adjudicators in the Leeds International Piano Competition and I was asked quite cagely by um somebody from a public house opposite whether I could come in and sit on on on the uh great British pub.

John Lill30:10

Piano Competition of the Year. And do you know it was so refreshing. I got away from all the academic heavyweights, and I listened to some real spontaneous playing, and certainly at least as talented as some of the people playing classical music over the other side of the road. It shows you that the beauty of music contains so many different tangents and so many different styles.

Presenter30:23

Ready?

John Lill30:30

Record number seven.

John Lill30:32

Well, I mentioned Arrau as being a great pianist, but I think of the younger generation of pianists now, Evgeny Kissin must come, as far as I'm concerned, my number one.

John Lill30:43

And I'm very fond of the list output and the transcendental studies themselves are wonderful pieces.

Presenter31:48

Yevgeny Kissin, playing Liszt's Transcendental Study No. twelve, Chasse Energe. Um I see, John, that your hobbies are are what you call intangible intellectual pursuits, chess, computers, astronomy.

John Lill32:00

Yes, they're all virtually useless, but they all seem to help music in a way. Something to do with the same sort of intangible mental discipline that governs music.

Presenter32:06

Do they?

John Lill32:09

Uh

Presenter32:09

But it's also there is the sort of sense of patterns or mathematics or

John Lill32:13

Music is largely mathematics, of course, and um uh I just feel with subjects as with mathematics, with chess, there's that same sort of mental application which I find

John Lill32:25

Very attractive.

Presenter32:26

You're also perhaps quite fascinated, if you like, with things that can't quite be explained, with the kind of infinities.

John Lill32:30

The kind of infinities, as it were. I'm fascinated by psychic research. I'm fascinated by people watching. I'm interested in people's motives and I'm fascinated by crowd tendency and behaviour. Because my job is really on the outside of the normal world, because I'm spending most of my time in a solitary state travelling, practising, giving concerts, you actually find it fascinating to look at people and the way life is organised for them.

John Lill32:54

But there are many interests and I think for people to say that they're bored, you know, it's something I cannot understand, because there are millions of things to occupy the mind.

Presenter33:03

Hmm.

John Lill33:03

in life and it's never boring it's never

Presenter33:05

So you're not going to get bored even on a desert island.

John Lill33:05

Two no

John Lill33:07

Well, I'm not very good at looking after myself with regard to practical things. You know, that's the one thing I dread, having to make something, because I'm hopelessly impractical.

Presenter33:14

But no no fear, of course, from everything you've said o of death.

John Lill33:18

No, none at all.

John Lill33:20

It might be inconvenient the way you reach it, but afterwards, no way.

John Lill33:24

Last piece of music.

John Lill33:26

Years and years ago I heard something on the old steam radio, and I was mesmerized by it. It was fantastic, it was so exciting.

John Lill33:34

I think I was a teenager. I can't remember exactly when it was. And that introduced me to the wonderful music of Prokofiev.

John Lill33:40

The Fifth Symphony has a colossal ending, a great build-up.

John Lill33:44

of rhythmic passion and marvellous orchestration. And this is the very recording I heard in those old days. I think it must be on a wax cylinder or seventy eight or something. But it's the very end of Prokofiev's Fifth Symphony, showing his colossal command of rhythm and tumultuous build up.

Presenter34:58

The end of Prokofiev's Symphony No. 5 in B flat major, played by the Danish State Radio Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Erik Tuchsen. Now, if you could only take one of your eight records with you, John, which one would you take?

John Lill35:09

It would have to be the late quartet of Beethoven Opus 131, I'm afraid. Perfect piece. Yeah, really spiritual work and.

Presenter35:12

Let me

John Lill35:16

You could enjoy that without end. It would reveal new things every time you heard it.

Presenter35:21

What about your book? You've got the Bible, and you've got the complete works of Shakespeare's, I'm sure you.

John Lill35:25

I love nature, and I love astronomy, and I love wild animals, as long as they don't kill me first. I would say if it's possible to have a huge tome of the natural phenomena around me, including the stars, including the planets

Presenter35:25

My

John Lill35:36

Uh but especially the fauna, trees, animals, insects. That will keep me going for a few years. And what about your luxury?

John Lill35:44

Has to be some sort of piano, doesn't it? But of course pianos do wear out and they need tuning and

John Lill35:49

I was thinking of an electronic piano which is solar powered. Would that be allowed?

John Lill35:54

That would keep me happy as well for a little while.

Presenter35:56

John Lill, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island history.

John Lill35:59

Thank you very much, Sue.

Presenter36:00

Yeah.

Speaker 336:07

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.

Presenter36:55

Uh