Marguerite Patten

Marguerite Patten0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in two thousand and one, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My Costaway this week is a cook. She's been a straightforward and reliable friend to millions of British women since before the outbreak of the Second World War, when she gave up her acting career to help market the wonders of the newly invented domestic refrigerator. She was the first cook to appear on the television. That was back in 1947. And she believes she invented that immortal one-liner, here's one I prepared earlier. Her books have sold 17 million copies, her most groundbreaking being Cookery in Colour, published in the 60s, which not only included brilliant illustrations, but more than a thousand of her recipes. Now 85, she still broadcasts, lectures, and writes and sums up her career in typical no-nonsense style as cooking sensible food in an appetising manner. She is Marguerite Patton. What a long way we've come, Marguerite, since you were advocating twenty-six interesting things to do with spam and dried egg. We're a nation of foodies. Are you impressed with us? Yes, I'm impressed and pleased that people now think about food more. Because once upon a time, you know, it was almost infra dig if you'd been invited out. You had a lovely evening, but you wouldn't have said, oh, I did enjoy that soup or something like that. Well, it just wasn't polite. Oh, no, it just wasn't the thing. I'm not so pleased with certain other things. The fact that many people are not cooking as much as I would like them to. Why would they not cook? I mean, it is a spectator sport, really, isn't it? People love watching it on the television. They love reading about it in books, but but they don't do it. Well, I think you'd divide us as a nation really in half, the people who love to cook.

Marguerite Patten1:55

Can I slow that?

Presenter2:09

And the people who are not going to cook. And I'm really very fascinated by the people who don't want to cook. And I want to say to them, Look, I know when you're busy it's easy to take a can, a packet or something like that, but please, when you've time, learn about the pleasure of handling food, the pleasure of creating a dish. It's exactly, of course, what you were saying when you published your Cookery in Colour in in nineteen sixty. I can see it now, you know, all those high cholesterol dishes spread out on the blue and white check tablecloth.

Speaker 42:37

Conticious

Marguerite Patten2:38

Uh

Presenter2:40

We didn't worry then, did we, about everything was piped with cream. No, we didn't. We hadn't heard the word cholesterol then. We did know about calories just about they were something far off that other people worried about, but we didn't worry about. But what we did know about is how to create a meal.

Speaker 42:54

Uh

Presenter2:59

A day off today. I want to talk more about all of that, but let's pause for your first record. What's the record you're going to play first on the day? The first is a Gilberts and Sullivan, because we're a great Gilberts and Sullivan family. My father was a very, very good musician who played classical music and everything, and sadly died when I was twelve. My mother, a very competent musician. My sister and I.

Marguerite Patten3:05

As it Yeah.

Presenter3:22

Fortunately we had enough knowledge of music to know we were pretty awful, but our duets at Gilbert and Sullivan were the sort of variety act for the family, and so as I am loved going to Venice, I'm going to choose from the gondoliers take a pair of sparkling eyes.

Speaker 43:44

Take a pair of sparkling eyes Hidden heaven and an Lord In a mercy fully claims.

Speaker 43:56

Do not heed their mild surprise Having passed the rule, be come, Take a pair of rosy lips.

Speaker 44:06

Take a figure dreamly bland, such as admiration words, be partake of loving peace, take a ten

Marguerite Patten4:14

Darling

Speaker 44:17

The little hand, fringed with dainty fingerets, press it, press it in parentheses.

Marguerite Patten4:23

Ah

Speaker 44:29

Oh, peaceful.

Presenter4:37

David Fieldsend as Marco Palmieri singing Take a Pair of Sparkling Eyes from Gilbert and Sullivan's The Gondoliers with the orchestra of the Doily Cart Opera conducted by John Price Jones.

Presenter4:48

The truth is, Margaret, as I said in my introduction, you really wanted to be an actress, didn't you? Yes, I did. And a Shakespearean one, I think. Oh, rather. I saw myself as Lady Macbeth.

Marguerite Patten4:53

It and the Shakespeare

Marguerite Patten4:56

Good s

Presenter4:58

I was trained as a home economist, and then I went for an audition at Radham, which I got through. And of course, in those days, there were no grants for anything like that. My mother went back to teaching to support three children, of which I was the eldest. And so it was impossible to do it. But for a very short time, I did get a job in repertory in Oldham, which I absolutely loved. What sort of things did you play? What sort of part? Hobson's choice was one, but there was one magic one where I was the intended victim. They were very vocal in Oldham. Every night somebody used to say, Look out, Love, he's behind you, which rather spoiled the plot. But I manfully went on. It was a experience, as it turned out. Well, I think, quite frankly, it was one of the most valuable periods of my life.

Marguerite Patten5:40

And it was very good.

Presenter5:46

That gave me confidence to be on the stage and established the fact that I suppose I was reasonably good. And the reason I went back to being a home economist was because there was a gap between a season ending in Oldham beginning again later on in the New Year. So I had to find a job. But why domestic science, as we called it then, rather than home economics? Why did you choose that? I mean, had you a history? They really chose me. I discovered at about thirteen that I enjoyed cooking. Even at thirteen, I liked showing off and standing on the platform. Somebody said, well, why don't you put the two together? Let her train to be a home economist in industry, and then she'll be able to stand on the platform. So that's really how I came to do that. What was the first thing you ever cooked as a young girl? Do you have a paper? Oh, I cannot think to this day why I selected something so very ambitious, a rabbit pie. So I not only had to do the rabbit pot, but I had to do the pastry as well. And it was going beautifully until a school friend who was with me tipped my hand and the rabbit pie ended on the floor. And it's a disgraceful admission that Marguerite gathered it all up, dusted it down and put it back in the pie bit. And it was. Needs must, I think. Well, I had to. Everybody was coming home over home for lunch, so I had to do it. And didn't say a word about it until years afterwards. Tell me about your second record.

Presenter7:12

The second record goes back to an uncle of mine. My uncle had a very fine voice, and used to sing the Fishermen of England in a deep bass baritone. I didn't want to live with the Fishermen of England somehow, so I translated that to the Pearl Fishers. The duet between those two fishermen I think is absolutely magic.

Speaker 47:36

Is he all

Speaker 47:41

The fool and the shadow.

Speaker 47:47

Here's the bounce.

Speaker 48:04

Sled on the air.

Speaker 48:09

He is all hello.

Presenter8:29

Leopold Simonou as Nadia and René Bianco as Zurger singing Offon du Temp Plessin from Act One of Bizet's The Pearlfishers with the Orqueste des Conseils La Moure conducted by Jean Fournet. Your first job, Marguerite Patton, I think, was for the electricity company in the world. That's right, in Barnet, where I lived at that time. And I was extremely fortunate to be with that company. But I suppose you were demonstrating the appliances as much as the cookery. Yes, because the whole object of showing how to bake beautiful cakes was to show what a splendid oven it was. It wasn't just to teach people cookery. You rose to dizzy heights, I think, when you were then employed by Frigidaire, big American company introducing the domestic refrigerator, my goodness. Well, my fill-in job was to be a saleswoman for Frigidaire, but my application to be a saleswoman got muddled up with applications for a senior home economist. No way could I have been called a senior home economist in those days.

Marguerite Patten8:46

That's right, in Barnet, where I lived.

Marguerite Patten8:52

Wait a minute.

Marguerite Patten9:10

League of

Marguerite Patten9:15

Bye.

Presenter9:30

So when I realised that I was being interviewed, not for a saleswoman, but for a senior home economist, by Jove, let's give this the full works and what saved me was that the directors decided we all, on the short list, had to give a demonstration. Now the others were much more experienced than I was, but they hadn't been in repertory. And you had to give a demonstration with no table, no mixing bowl, no refrigerator, just stand there cold. Well, of course, I was Monday morning in Repidoldum and I was whisking and beating and opening fridge doors that didn't exist, so I had a terrible advantage. And I got the job. What sort of thing did you wear? Do you remember? You must have worried about it. Frigidaire said you must wear overalls, but we want them to be rather distinctive overalls. So I went to Harrods and I had these overalls created. And I still don't know quite why, whether it was Harrods or me who decided they'd have scallops all round the bottom. I then went all round Britain, giving what we call cold cookery demonstrations. So that would be what, trifles and things? Well, an ice cream, because you could talk about to people about the importance of refrigeration for keeping food hygienically. And nine cases out of ten people would say, but dear, in our climate, we don't really need

Marguerite Patten10:12

You must have worried of

Marguerite Patten10:31

Yeah.

Marguerite Patten10:38

Absolutely.

Presenter10:53

The moment you said you'd be able to make your own ice cream oh, now you're talking you'd be able to set jellies in minutes Wonderful. And it m obviously it was a very good job. Do you remember how much you got paid? Um yes, I got paid five pounds a week, which was an enormous amount of money for a youngster in those days. And of course my family said it ruined me for life. I was told I must always travel first class and always stay in the best hotels to uphold the name of Fritcherdaire.

Presenter11:24

Next piece of music. Like every youngster's day, I had my pop stars, and Bing Crosby was the first. And then, of course, along came Frank Sinatra, and I had a terrible time when I was thinking about these records. Who should I choose? Then I suddenly remembered I could have both of them in that lovely duet from High Society.

Speaker 311:45

Don't worry, she's a game girl, you know. Got up and finished four. She has got guts. Having a nice time. Rabelaire.

Speaker 311:52

Have you heard that Mimsy Star? What now? She got pinced in the Aster bar and she was stoned. Well did you ever? Never. What a swell party this is.

Marguerite Patten11:57

So

Marguerite Patten12:02

Well party

Presenter12:15

Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra singing Well, Did You Ever from Coal Porter's High Society with the MGM Studio Orchestra conducted by Johnny Green. So war came, Marguerite Patton. Nobody was going to buy a fridge, nobody was going to sell a fridge in the war. And eventually you started working for the Ministry of Food, cooking everywhere, I think, in market squares and at the WI. That's right. As one of the food advisors, and our job was to help people not only to make the best of the rations, but also to encourage a meat-eating nation to look at vegetables as well. But what about the WI wanting to make jam? Did you manage to keep them going? Yes, I did. I was loaned for a day to encourage Women's Institute and people like that to make jam for the war effort. And my brief was that every pound pot of jam should contain sixty percent sugar. That is because nobody knew where that jam would be stored. First time I did it, the lady of the manor was in charge of the operation, and everybody else was yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. And she's a nonsense young woman, and of course I was a young woman then. I have always made two pounds of jam out of one pound of sugar. Yes, I'm sure you have, but I'm afraid that won't do now. You must make one and two-thirds pounds of jam for your pound of sugar.

Presenter13:36

I've never heard strong oh, it went on and on and on, and I had to hold my ground. Oh, that was awful. You also worked in Harrods very frequently, I think. What kinds of people were you talking to? Oh, most interesting, because as well as Britishers there, a lot of people from around the world were refugees from oppression, and they used to come to Harrods. And I was very fortunate because many of them used to say, Well, I've recipes from Czechoslovakia. Do they interest you? Of course they interest me. From Austria, all sorts of exotic. But you wouldn't have had the ingredients. No, I couldn't. But I got the recipes. And when the ingredients came back in the fifties, there I was, armed with an enormous library of recipes I'd never tried. But in the meantime, you had to teach

Presenter14:24

Presumably women who were coming into Harrods who had not been used to cooking because their domestic servants had gone to war. That's perfectly true. And over a period of time I got to know quite a lot of them very well. And they began to enjoy cooking. But you were teaching them to make things like mock duck, mock cream, mock oyster soup. What was in these things? Mock crab was an extraordinary mixture, very nice, based on a classic savoury of dried egg, it would have been, or fresh egg if you kept chickens, with a little grated cheese, a little vinegar. And if you happen to have at the back of a cupboard a little anchovy essence dating back probably from the 1920s, that was really quite nice. What about mock cream? You made a thick cornflower mixture as if you were making a blancmange, and you creamed your precious ounce of margarine and sugar together, and you gradually incorporated and you know it was really quite nice. Sounds horrible. No, it wasn't horrible at all.

Speaker 314:40

B

Presenter15:25

Let's have some more music. You hear a lot about the rations, you hear a lot about the gallantry of people during the war, but something that I shall never forget was the darkness. You imagine, as I did, coming back from working in London, twenty minute walk in your home town, but in blackness there wasn't a chink of light.

Presenter15:46

So that when the lights came on oh, absolutely wonderful And I've chosen that when the lights go on all over the world.

Speaker 415:57

When the lights go on again

Speaker 416:02

All over the world

Speaker 416:08

And the boys are home again.

Speaker 416:12

All over the world.

Speaker 416:17

And rain or snow is all

Speaker 416:22

That may fall from the skies above

Presenter16:26

When the Lights Go On Again All Over the World, sung by Jack Carroll with Les Brown and his orchestra. So the Ministry of Food then, I think, Marguerite Patton, put you on the radio. Yes. I was asked to submit a script, and the script had to go first to the BBC.

Presenter16:42

And secondly, to the ministry. And interestingly enough, the BBC said fine, and the ministry said, Oh, wait a minute, you're preaching too much. And so what I'd obviously said was, Oh, I know you haven't any eggs, which was sounding doleful. What I had to do is say, This is a lovely pudding. Oh, by the way, aren't you lucky it hasn't got an egg in? So you're all bright and cheerful. This was kitchen front, 8.15 every morning. For five minutes. And it wasn't just cookery people like me who who spoke. Generally, the ministry, I think it's right to say, would choose a comedian if there'd been a cut in the ration. I remember Mabel Constanturus. Young people will never have heard of her, but she was a wonderful comedian who had a family of outrageous cockneys that she portrayed. And I know Grandma Buggins was the grumbler. I remember her grumbling once about the sugar condemned my sugar in my tea. And up pops Mum, well, never mind, Gran, you can have a cake I've made. And up the punchline, of course, was Perky's son. Gran, remember there's a war on. But mum came back. I can manage, you can still have your sugar can. Now, you see, if somebody like me had announced, or a ministry person, there is a cut of two ounces this month in the sugar, that was grim. But by making us laugh, it was covered. Very clever. But of course, your starring role, I think, that has gone down in history is that you were on the second ever edition of Woman's Hour and you were cooking, for heaven's sake, whale. I did a lot of experimenting with whale meat.

Presenter18:21

And if I talk about it long enough, I shall begin to smell it. It had that sort of rancid, oily smell. Do you remember the recipe for whale meat that you brought up? Well, whale meat was used like beef. You would put it in a casserole or a a stew of some kind. It had an affinity with liver.

Marguerite Patten18:31

But

Presenter18:41

And beef. If you imagine putting those two flavours together, you'll round about what whale meat tasted like. More music. Now I'm departing from the lights to a comparatively recent love, discovering opera.

Presenter18:59

I think the opera that excites me probably more than anything is common.

Presenter19:03

And I'm going over to the scene in the tavern, where you have gypsies, you have the smugglers, you have Carmen, because that's the essence of lovely, lovely Spanish music.

Speaker 419:17

Headshot.

Speaker 420:10

Uh

Presenter20:16

Léontine Price, Monique L'Anval, Genevieve Maco, Jean-Christophe Benoit and Maurice Besançon and the quintette Nous Avans en Tête unaffaire from Act Two of Bizet's Carmen with the Vienna Philharmonic conducted by Herbert von Carrian. It was really a natural transition for you, it seems to me, Marguerite Patton, from radio into television after the war. What was the first telly you did? Do you remember? The first television was the very beginning of the very first magazine programme for women. I was the first television cook, but I must point out that Philip Harbin preceded me. And he was several months ahead of me on television. And one day he said to me, because we sometimes work together on the programme. Philip Harbin, I remember, rather a rotund figure with a big stripey apron. But that's right in the beards. Yes. A lovely, lovely man. And he said, you know, Marguerite, you must get this position quite clear. Is it all right with you if I say I'm the first television chef? And he was a trained chef, so that was right and proper, and you'll be the first television cook. So that is really how we both gave ourselves the title. And you transferred to Lime Grove and a black and white television career was born as well. That's right. And I went right through the 50s, right up until the programme ended in the early 60s. And then, of course, something happened, I suppose, in the 60s. Cooking went glam, really. Fanny Craddock and her fingernails, and later on, we had the galloping gourmet who was sloshing that way out of the colour. Each of them, I think, brought something different. But in a sense, I suppose, those kinds of programmes became very flamboyant, Alacrick's ideas. Because we'd had so many years of what you've been describing, sort of make-do and mend, as an apparently. Make-do and mend and greyness. Because if you think about black and white, it doesn't matter how beautiful the dish is. It's still a grey sludge. And so it really, when colour began to introduce. And it became entertainment, really, as opposed to giving you good information. Yes. It was different. My fifties were interesting, though, because you had various strands of desire. You had the people who wanted to go back to true British cooking. You had a whole generation of young people who had probably gone more or less from school or college into the forces, never cooked, never shopped, and they wanted to learn basic things. And then you had the people who wanted recipes from other countries. And they were the people who'd served in other countries. So it was all there waiting for them. All there, Louis. It was too predictable looking. It was a wonderful, wonderful period. I mean, remember, we had coronation chicken in 1953. Didn't you? That was invented. That's right. And they had the volunteer, do you remember? That was bringing puff pastry back. An endless lemon meringue pie, I remember. Lemon meringue pie was one of the great favourites. And the questions that arose how to stop the meringue weeping. Oh, it was a complex dish. It sounds so simple. But to be able to have lemons, I think that was to me one of the biggest joys, lemon and oranges back. Instead of that ghastly substitute. Oh, it was unbelievably ghastly. I can't tell you how awful it was. But of course, as Fanny Craddock, as I say, brought this glamour to cooking on the television, you in the meantime had become a variety star yourself, which I want to ask you about, but I'm going to ask you for another record first. Tell me about that.

Marguerite Patten21:02

That's right in the beards.

Marguerite Patten21:40

Examale

Marguerite Patten21:43

That's the output of

Marguerite Patten21:50

And the credits are.

Marguerite Patten22:40

Is that

Marguerite Patten22:42

We produce

Marguerite Patten22:44

Bye.

Marguerite Patten22:50

Maybe that was invented.

Marguerite Patten23:09

The A.

Presenter23:33

Well, over a period of time I had become able to fly. And I must explain that as a family we were very lucky. My husband had survived eighty four bombing operations, and therefore he was not the world's greatest lover of flying after those experiences. And I kept on as the years passed on saying, I'd love to learn to fly, I'd love to learn to fly. And he got bit annoyed about this. He said, Well, either d make up your mind to do something about it or keep quiet.

Presenter24:06

So in the end I went to a nearby Ashorem airport to learn to fly.

Presenter24:11

And then eventually the senior flying instructor took me up and said, Oh, you're better than I thought you were. You'll soon be able to go solo. I think it was the word solo that suddenly did something to me. I thought, Marguerite, are you really able to get up there and fly that plane and get it done? So that is one of my unfulfilled ambitions, because I never finished. But I can remind myself of it. I was torn between the magnificent RAF March and I thought, no, my efforts mustn't be classed with those gallant people. So it's the magnificent men in their flying machine.

Speaker 424:48

Those like if they've invented their flying machine They go up till the up, they go down till the ambound They entangle the ladies and steal all the scenes Live there up till the up and they're down till the ambound

Speaker 425:06

Flying around

Speaker 425:08

Looping the loop and defying the ground

Speaker 425:13

Oh rightly kingdom

Presenter25:17

Wonderful. The theme from the original soundtrack of those magnificent men in their flying machines. So, yes, Marguerite Patton, the variety star, on stage at the London Palladium, the Palace Theatre, Manchester, along with what, people like Dickie Murdoch, Cyril Fletcher. How did you fit into all of that? Well, the moment rationing ended, I was asked to give big cookery demonstrations throughout Britain. And then somebody asked if I would consider doing these demonstrations with variety. My husband had introduced me to variety, and so I said yes. But I have this vision of you at the Palladium coming round on that revolving stage you know we used to see on Sunday night at the London Palladium. You'd turn around and there were you in your kitchen. I know. I know. When those mighty curtains party.

Presenter26:01

I thought, what am I doing here? And I long really like the Fairy Queen or the Evil Witch or something for a trapdoor to open. But you know, that's one comforting thing about cooking, that you pick up a wooden spoon or you pick up an implement and it's saying to you, come on, get on with the job. And of course, after a few minutes, I began to enjoy myself. And you had audience participation, I think, didn't you? Didn't you ask them to time your cooking for you? Yes.

Presenter26:27

I am basically a demonstrator and I like to see my audience. Well, of course, in a theatre, you don't. So I evolved this, getting people to time. And it was a Swiss roll. And you've never heard such lunatic timing in your life. Of course, I looked at my watch very carefully, wasn't being caught on that one. And after two or three minutes, Swiss roll, Swiss roll. But they were participating. I knew they were there. And you had volunteers up on stage. We were going to do a whole show with 100% star variety people.

Presenter27:04

And it was my husband who said to me, You know, Marguerite, I'm not sure it's going to work with you doing a serious demonstration in the middle of all that. And I got in touch with the organiser and I said, You know, it's not going to work, not going to work. May I suggest that I have men coming up.

Presenter27:20

Three men, perhaps, three cookers, three pretty home economists to assist them, and they make sponges or something like that. And that's what happened. And it started at the Palace Theatre in Manchester for a week.

Presenter27:32

And it was a riot. And how were the men when they came up? Oh, I used to get them to do silly things like cutting up marshmallows with scissors. Now, if anybody's trying to do that, it's a nightmare. And they used to get themselves in terrible trouble. But they always came back in the second half and brought up their beautiful cakes from the oven. So they were proud as punch. By this time, of course, you were very famous, not least because of your books. I think it was Paul Hamlin, the publisher, wasn't he, who spotted the gap in the book market and signed you up. They say that you helped make him rich.

Marguerite Patten27:57

It wasn't spotted.

Presenter28:03

Well, he did say to me once, darling, I owe much of this to you.

Presenter28:08

I think I might have helped him on his way. Did he make you rich? Not particularly. Bob always, my husband, always said I was a bit like Stanley Matthews, too early to be made rich. I've managed very nicely. Seventeen million books, I think, sold around the world. That's right. It's a lot, isn't it? It's a lot. But you're not complaining. I'm not complaining about the writers. I think nobody could have had a more happy life. Because don't forget, leaving out all of that, I've got a wonderful family.

Marguerite Patten28:20

Seventeen

Marguerite Patten28:29

We've done quite well.

Presenter28:37

Record number seven. One day my husband said to me, Are you doing anything on, I think it was a Monday, such and such a day? No, or don't. And it's probably better if you don't do something the day before and the day after. Why? I'll tell you. He'd bought me a ticket on Concorde for a day trip to Egypt. Can you imagine it? And you know, it was incredible how much we got done in that day. So in memory of my incredible, lovely day, I would like to choose a part of Act Two of Verde's Aida, The Glory of Egypt.

Presenter30:13

The chorus of the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, singing The Glory of Egypt from Act Two of Verdi Zaida, with the new Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Riccardo Mutti. Now you're in your eighties, as we've said, still writing your cookery books, still appearing on television and giving talks in schools and on cruise ships.

Marguerite Patten30:23

You are

Presenter30:31

Do you think you'll ever stop?

Presenter30:34

Well, as long as people ask me to do things, I would like to go on. Only yesterday I was instructing a group of young Japanese women who were over here on the niceties, believe it or no, of an elegant British tea party. I wore a hat and I had my gloves on to start with to show them how tea parties would have been a long time ago. And then I shed my hat and came down to earth in 2001. Last record.

Presenter31:01

Well, I've been extremely lucky, as I've mentioned briefly, my family and lovely grandchildren and step grandchildren, who all are a sheer joy. And I've always loved being with young people. So my last opera is really to say how much I enjoy being with young people, how much I appreciate the way they treat me. I'm Marguerite, you know, I'm not sort of Mrs. Perton. So I've chosen the opera which to me summarises the friendliness of young people, and it is La Bohime.

Presenter31:37

So I'm choosing the cafe scene, where you have all the gaiety and the loveliness of it.

Speaker 431:51

Were they come to school?

Speaker 432:03

Where is your

Speaker 432:07

I may the glory of my good head.

Presenter32:39

Tiana D'Angelo, Renata Tabaldi, Ettore Bastianini and Fernando Corena in Act Two of Puccini's Laboem with the Chorus and Orchestra of the Academy of St. Cecilia Rome, and that was conducted by Tullio Serafine. Now, Marguerite Patton, if you could only take one of those eight records, which one would you take? Terribly difficult choice. But I think if I'm sitting by myself and perhaps feeling a bit

Marguerite Patten32:59

Swear.

Presenter33:03

A bit dismal, that I would choose Carmen, because it would say to me, Come on, Marguerite, um, don't just sit there, do something. What about your book?

Presenter33:11

Again, I had to think very hard. And I think Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice because just like these music, I can see that I rejoice in mister Bennett. I wonder how he put up with that wife for all those years. And what about your luxury?

Presenter33:27

As I've got arthritis and I try and combat it, exercise is important and I'm not a sort of aerobatics person or March Miles person, but I'm a digging, gardening person. So I would ask please for a very strong trowel, because that would get me bending, not a spathey, that I could dig. And I could create perhaps a garden, a rockery garden maybe, or some kind of garden.

Marguerite Patten33:31

Exercise

Presenter33:50

Well, I think that's permissible,'cause you're not going to escape with a trowel, are you? You're just going to sort of help yourself. No, I don't think that could help.

Presenter33:59

You can have it. Marguerite Patton, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island issues.

Speaker 434:03

Okay.

Marguerite Patten34:19

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio form.