Des Lynam

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in the year two thousand, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:31

My Castaway this week is a broadcaster. Originally rejected by BBC Management on the grounds that he lacked and I quote background, experience and personality, he went on to become one of its most famous faces and the man associated with nearly all of its sports coverage. When last year he left the corporation to join ITV, his defection was a story of national proportions. But the man who caused the storm seems characteristically unperturbed by the buffetings. The dry, deadpan, yet always reassuring style which made his reputation has settled down comfortably in its new home. Perhaps because, as a fellow presenter once observed, there have only been three great white entertainers: Presley, Sinatra, and my guest this week, Lynham. Des Lynham, that is. It is true, Des. I mean, when you left, it was amazing. Epic proportions. You were top of the news, weren't you?

Des Lynam1:24

I'm only just recovering from it, and it's well, a year and a half ago now. I was front page news on every newspaper. I led, I think, the nine o'clock news and certainly the six o'clock news.

Presenter1:33

Must have been a quiet news day.

Des Lynam1:35

It was a quiet it was August. And I it was extraordinary. I mean, I still don't really fully understand it, but it di it caused uh a big kerfuffle at the time.

Presenter1:43

The fact remains that you seem I mean, I don't know I haven't put a stopwatch on it, but we seem to see less of you. I mean, particularly in the Olympics back in September. I mean, you must miss it. Miss us. Mi are you homesick?

Des Lynam1:56

I'm not homesick. I miss some of the people. Obviously, I work with some terrific people at the BBC and um.

Des Lynam2:02

I missed doing the Olympics up to a point, uh although I'd worked on every Olympic since'seventy two, so I'd been there, so to speak.

Presenter2:08

And Wimbledon this summer. You must I mean, tennis is your thing.

Des Lynam2:11

But I it is, I love it. But I went. I got some tickets and went and enjoyed it and didn't have to cover the weather. I didn't have to do the rain interlude. But I mean, it's just a change. At the time, I just thought, here's a terrific offer. Here's a lot more money. It wasn't just about money. It was about the fact I was going to be able to do live football almost every week.

Des Lynam2:31

instead of recorded highlights. And I'd done those highlights at night time on a Saturday for about, I think, eight or nine years. And I was getting a little stale with it. So I needed a change. Now the change would have a bit of a downside as well as a lot of upside. So I missed the Olympics.

Speaker 12:40

Yeah.

Presenter2:40

So I

Presenter2:47

So you don't seem to have many regrets. And it's it's as you once famously remarked um when England lost to Germany in Euro ninety six, no use crying for what might have been not for more than a couple of years anyway. No, I think you're great lie man.

Des Lynam2:56

No, I think I think you get on with the present, don't you? And you and you look to the future. And I've had some wonderful times with BBC Sport. And I I you know, I think the BBC's

Presenter2:59

Shoot.

Des Lynam3:06

Probably the best organisation in Britain. I think it's a wonderful asset that the nation has.

Presenter3:11

Sounds as if you might want to come back.

Des Lynam3:12

No, don't want to come back, but I I appreciate the BBC and what it stands for, and everybody else in the world does, apart from the British sometimes.

Presenter3:13

I have

Presenter3:16

Hello.

Presenter3:19

What you developed here, I mean, and what your knack has been, if one can try and sum up your knack, are lines like that one I just quoted. It is that kind of.

Presenter3:28

Saying what the nation is probably feeling. I mean, is that how you the common common touch is really what we're saying, isn't it?

Des Lynam3:34

I think the reason for it would be that that's what I am, really. I'm a viewer. I haven't been in international football. I haven't played tennis at Wimbledon. Well, I have actually, but.

Des Lynam3:43

It's not for anybody to watch.

Des Lynam3:46

So what what can I do? I can take the point of view of the fan. I mix with them all the time. Every time I get in a black cab, a guy says to me, It is what's wrong with West AM and before I tell him, he tells me.

Presenter3:57

But you're not a sports bore.

Presenter3:59

You're not having our own.

Des Lynam3:59

I'm not a sports boar. I don't go up to somebody in the pub and start waffling on to them about sport. They do to me quite often and I high tail it out of there very rapidly usually if they start telling me about their backhanded squash.

Presenter4:08

If they stop.

Des Lynam4:11

Um so I leg it.

Presenter4:13

Yeah, but what what I think must be wonderful i is that power, that having the direct line, like the shouldn't you be at work line. You know you're going to hit them right where it h you know, in that guilty spot because they're skyving off work towards the corner.

Des Lynam4:28

It was at one o'clock in midday or something, you know, and the lovely features.

Presenter4:29

Midday or something, you know, and the lovely feeling. Power.

Des Lynam4:33

I don't know about power. I just know that I'm getting to the because I'm thinking of one person all the time. If I thought of the millions, I I'd be so frightened I'd never do it.

Presenter4:40

As we shall hear later on,'cause I know you're fundamentally quite a a shy person. But let's let's pause for a moment and hear about your first record.

Des Lynam4:48

The first record is the theme from Housewives' Choice and it evokes memories of my boyhood living in a little house in Brighton when we first moved from Ireland with my mum and dad who were wonderful people. I was brought up beautifully by them. And this this tune used to resonate around the house. It's always stayed in my mind. I don't even know what it's called actually, but I love it.

Presenter5:30

That, believe it or not, was something called In Party Mood, um, performed by the West End Celebrity Orchestra, but to you and me, Des theme tuned to Housewives' Choice on the Like programme. Love it, all through one's childhood. Housewives' Choice. I thought you were Housewives' Choice. What was it? Mrs. Merton called you a sort of Tom Cruise for men menopausal women.

Speaker 15:40

All three ones, chat.

Presenter5:49

It's very brave of you to go on that show.

Des Lynam5:49

Yes, I thought it was brave, probably foolish, but uh I enjoyed the experience actually in retrospective. She's a very talented lady.

Presenter5:52

Uh

Presenter5:58

So tell me about the childhood. You were in Brighton, you said, but the family came from Ireland. You were born in Ireland, weren't you?

Des Lynam6:04

Yes, I was. Hitler was to blame, really. My parents came to uh England before the war, because there was unemployment in Ireland, and they both went into nursing,

Des Lynam6:15

He then went into the army, into the British Army, was caught up in the Second World War. My mother was pregnant, so she went home to the bosom of her family in Ireland, in Ennis in County Clare, and I was born there. And then we stayed there for a few years before we came to Brighton.

Presenter6:24

And then we stayed.

Presenter6:27

That was nineteen forty two, you were born out there.

Des Lynam6:29

He was born in 42.

Presenter6:30

So you didn't know your father at first, then?

Des Lynam6:33

No, Dad came back from the army. He was in the medical corps. I don't know quite what year it was, but I was certainly cognisant of the fact that I hadn't seen this guy before, and I can distinctly remember, it's almost one of my first memories, him coming into the house and picking me up in his arms. I thought, What is he doing this for? Who is this? People don't do this without my permission. And uh I uh he he showed me a great deal of affection, which was not returned.

Des Lynam6:56

It took me some time to get used to this man.

Presenter6:58

And then you had to move to Sussex.

Des Lynam7:00

We moved to Sussex because he resumed his job uh at the hospital.

Presenter7:04

But that must have been hard if you've been brought up in Ireland with lots of extended family because you've got

Des Lynam7:08

Lots of extended family, grandparents, aunts and uncles and and let me tell you, in those years that part of Ireland was like going back another generation. I mean, it was horse transport. And then when you came to England you'd moved up a sort of generation a little bit. There was car transport. It was rather different.

Presenter7:20

was caught.

Presenter7:22

And you must have been a bit of an oddity, therefore, because you'd be a little boy with an Irish accent.

Des Lynam7:27

I was a complete oddity. The neighbours couldn't understand a word I said. It's it's it's it's probably difficult to think of that now, but um I had a very broad, not Irish accent, but County Clare accent at the time. I was I suppose at the time saddled with that really because

Speaker 47:42

Yeah.

Presenter7:42

Because

Des Lynam7:43

Sure, I can talk like that if you want me to.

Des Lynam7:46

It's a bit like that, you know.

Presenter7:48

And I read somewhere that when you went to school the the teacher asked you to to draw a line on the paper and you did something quite different.

Des Lynam7:53

Must have been quite stupid, mind you, but I drew a lion because for me a lion was like a lion and a tiger.

Speaker 18:00

Yeah.

Des Lynam8:01

And I drew this little thing with legs, and she came round and gave me a little pat with the ruler on the hand, and I thought what's going on here?

Presenter8:08

So did it make you a bit withdrawn then? Did you feel out of place?

Des Lynam8:12

I I I think I was an extrovert child until I came to England, and I think the accent and the and the change did make me somewhat withdrawn. But then I came into my own a little bit because I found I was moderately bright, or certainly compared to some of the ones I went to school with.

Presenter8:27

What about sport?

Des Lynam8:29

took part, but I wasn't a genius. I played for the school team and and and then in the in those years when first came to Brighton we used to go to the park almost every night and bowl and bat for two or three hours, night after night after night. With the amount of effort I put into it, I should have been a superstar.

Presenter8:46

Tell me about record number two.

Des Lynam8:47

Well, record number two is another down memory lane thought, really. Because w we lived in Ireland we used to always go back home, as my father and mother always used to call it, for our holidays in the summer. They never quite thought of England as home.

Des Lynam9:01

Um but it's the train journeys I always remember at the time, sitting in those little carriages, do you remember with the leather straps on the windows and Scottish long horned cows in those pictures and the do you remember? And this particular piece reminds me of that time. Of course it was it the railway's very involved in the story in the film Brief Encounter and it's Rachmaninoff.

Presenter10:21

Part of the second movement of Rachmaninoff's piano concerto number two in C minor, played by Vladimir Ashkenazi, with the concert gabar orchestra conducted by Bernard Heitink, and you can smell the steam and see the condensation.

Des Lynam10:31

Mm.

Des Lynam10:32

I love some of the lines from that film, too. Are you married?

Des Lynam10:36

Are you happy?

Des Lynam10:37

They never used the letter A in those d days.

Presenter10:39

That is true.

Presenter10:40

So there you were. You went to grammar school in Sussex, yeah. Um if you told your foremaster then that one day you would be a kind of national treasure, a broadcaster, what would he have said?

Des Lynam10:53

He would have been startled and amazed. And certainly the guy who who did um spoken English, for example, he would have thought, Well, this this is a miracle that this guy can speak at all, because I was the quiet one at the back of the class.

Presenter11:04

But you're a mimic as well. I mean you you can I mean you're installing it.

Des Lynam11:07

Yes, that grew a little later probably, but I could take off the schoolmaster and that was a sort of release of budding.

Presenter11:13

To sort of budding bremna in their summer.

Des Lynam11:15

Yes, if I could have become a Rory Bremner, I'd be a very happy chap. I think

Presenter11:19

Because you wrote as well, or in you do.

Des Lynam11:20

Yeah, yes.

Presenter11:21

So you might just have gone along that path. It's a kind of happy accident in a way.

Des Lynam11:26

Oh, a life is a series of accidents. Certainly for me, I was a very slow developer, and I'm hoping to come into my own in the next ten years.

Presenter11:35

But there you are, you see, there's the the the dry line coming through. It's interesting with all of those talents, all those things you might have done, you know, you can see the kind of course of your life beginning to happen as you read it like that and listen to you talk about it, and then suddenly you become an insurance salesman.

Des Lynam11:50

It was one of the the opportunities that was open at the time. I mean, I I I left school without going to university, should have done, made a mistake. I had to get a job. I actually went in the bank first, very, very briefly, and then it was insurance.

Des Lynam12:03

You know, f

Des Lynam12:05

I decided to go from something boring to something really boring.

Des Lynam12:09

And that was it. That was my life. And I took the exams and became an associate of the Chartered Insurance Institute. Oh, it was serious.

Presenter12:16

Oh, it was serious stuff.

Des Lynam12:17

It was serious stuff and I thought, well, if I'm saddled with this, I'd better make the most of it.

Presenter12:20

You weren't the foot in the door man, then?

Des Lynam12:22

No, it certainly was. I became an insurance inspector.

Presenter12:25

But at some point you decided to give up the day job. Okay, you were you were bored with it. It was still a very big decision though.

Des Lynam12:31

Yes, I had the opportunity though because when local radio started I got asked to do a bit for them and it grew very quickly and within about six months I was presenting sports programmes, I was doing a a disc jockey type show, I was doing a review of the local press where I used to have to go in at six o'clock in the morning and get this five five minute review of the local press on the air in an hour and a half.

Presenter12:50

Red

Des Lynam12:53

I mean that was a sweaty job.

Presenter12:55

But it felt right. You said it wasn't.

Des Lynam12:56

It felt right. I was happy. I was happy. I was doing something. It made me very happy for the first time in my life. And I thought, this is the business.

Des Lynam13:04

So I I I slung in the job and took up the hobby. And at the time the job was quite you know, something of a career and at the time they were telling me that I was I was going to great heights in this uh insurance game. And I had a car from the company and a mortgage with the company and I was twenty

Des Lynam13:21

It's five or six.

Presenter13:22

Yeah.

Speaker 113:22

Yeah.

Presenter13:22

Can you imagine?

Des Lynam13:23

I got married young at at the age of twenty three.

Des Lynam13:26

And so I was, you know, I was secure in a way, and I thought, gimme some of that insecurity.

Presenter13:33

Record number three.

Des Lynam13:34

In in those years and before, when I was a when I was a teenager growing up, all my motes were into Elvis and uh and and a little later the Beatles and all that, but I was always a Sinatra man.

Des Lynam13:44

I always loved Sinatra from from the age of about fourteen or fifteen, and this is one of his tr finest records, I think.

Speaker 413:51

In the wee small hours of the morning

Speaker 414:01

While the whole wide world is fast asleep

Speaker 414:09

You lie awake

Speaker 114:09

You love

Speaker 414:12

And do you think about the girl?

Speaker 414:16

And never ever think of counting

Speaker 114:17

Uh

Speaker 414:23

Hers if only she would call

Speaker 414:29

In the wee small hours of the morning

Speaker 414:37

That's the time.

Speaker 414:40

You miss her most.

Speaker 414:45

Uh

Presenter14:46

Yeah.

Presenter14:50

Frank Sinatra and in the wee small hours of the morning. It was um about that time when you were making that transition, finding your feet and becoming a broadcaster, uh, Des, that your mum died, wasn't it? What what happened?

Des Lynam14:59

Okay.

Des Lynam15:02

Yes. Um she'd worked quite hard, but she'd never really had a day's illness very much. And then suddenly one day she got this absolutely blinding headache and uh and the doctor came and thought she'd got flu and

Des Lynam15:13

She'd actually had a stroke and was hospitalized and survived for about a month, but never recovered and died from it. And she was quite a young woman at the time, you know, just early early fifties.

Presenter15:23

Mm-hmm.

Des Lynam15:23

And it was a pure shock.

Presenter15:24

And then your father died a handful of years later when you were in your early thirties, and that again was unexpected, wasn't it?

Des Lynam15:27

When you

Des Lynam15:31

Yes, my dad got cancer, but um by then, of course, I'd I'd made something of a mark in in the broadcasting game, uh and he he knew about it and of course and enjoyed it and and was delighted for me.

Presenter15:44

Hmm.

Des Lynam15:44

But my uh th one of my sadness is my mother never knew that I got into the game.

Presenter15:49

And of course w so they were both um dead and in the meantime your your marriage had broken up as well. So, you know, l you you're pretty on your own really.

Des Lynam15:58

Who is a promise of bundler laughs for a while, I tell you.

Presenter16:01

I mean, where are we? We're in the kind of mid-70s by then. Yes.

Des Lynam16:05

Yes, um yes, the marriage went asunder about nineteen seventy two. I was away at the Olympics when when it happened and uh and and one didn't recover from that for for a little a little time. But um

Presenter16:16

But you had a baby boy too, didn't you?

Des Lynam16:18

Yes. My son was born in nineteen seventy, and I found myself as the kind of visiting father for his early years after that.

Presenter16:27

Yeah.

Des Lynam16:27

Yes.

Presenter16:28

So there you are in Brighton on your own.

Des Lynam16:30

An orphan.

Presenter16:31

Orphan. I I know you were brought up a Catholic. I mean, did your religion help at that time?

Des Lynam16:36

Took a bit of a bashing round about the time of my father's death. Um th these various blows were happening around me, and there I was still going to mass on a Sunday, like a good Catholic Irish boy.

Des Lynam16:49

And round about that time I did lose I lost my faith.

Des Lynam16:53

And um I haven't really recovered from it.

Presenter16:56

Yeah.

Presenter16:58

Tried?

Des Lynam17:00

Well, I've got the guilt.

Des Lynam17:02

I've got the Catholic guilt, uh, of course, uh and the fear, but um I you know, I never went back to the church.

Presenter17:11

What about deaths? Because as we say there's been a lot of deaths.

Des Lynam17:14

Oh, it's gonna happen.

Presenter17:15

It's definitely gonna happen.

Des Lynam17:16

It's definitely going to happen. Nobody gets out alive, Mark Twain.

Presenter17:18

Do you think about it? Is it something that you contemplate often?

Des Lynam17:22

Yes, I'm a bit of a hypochondriac. You know, if I haven't got something wrong, I'll invent something.

Des Lynam17:27

Yes, I contemplate it. I think most people with a modicum of brain cell

Des Lynam17:31

Do, don't they?

Presenter17:33

Oh, then we should cheer up here. Oh, we must. Oh, we must check. They're not going to cheer up. No, look at it.

Des Lynam17:35

Oh we must

Des Lynam17:38

Yes, I know. What an appropriate record after going down that particular road of conversation. Well, I suppose this was a song that I got to know and and and like and and and used to feel it was a about me really, was in those days before I found my feet a little bit.

Des Lynam17:53

That's the thing.

Des Lynam17:54

Is that all there is?

Speaker 417:56

That's all there is, my friend.

Speaker 418:00

Then let's keep dancing.

Speaker 418:04

Let's break up the booze and have a ball

Speaker 418:13

If that's all

Presenter18:18

There is.

Presenter18:22

Peggy Lee, of course, and is that all there is? But do you still think like that, or have you sort of come past all of that now?

Des Lynam18:29

I more or less come past it. I do it does cross my mind a little bit. I think I'm an underachiever.

Des Lynam18:34

You know, I'm sitting around staring at his space too often, too much.

Presenter18:37

I don't think you're lazy.

Des Lynam18:38

Oh yes, I'm very lazy. Quite lazy. And you know, it it I think it's the Irish thing. I can s look at the day, as they call it.

Presenter18:39

Yeah.

Presenter18:45

The next big corner you turned in your career, of course, was the great transition from radio into television. It was not love at first sight, was it?

Des Lynam18:52

I hated it. I was camera shy. I was I was back, that boy in the classroom, sitting at the back, feeling awful and not feeling myself. And then one day I did one programme and came off the air and thought

Des Lynam19:06

I'm getting the hang of this. I've felt okay.

Presenter19:09

But there was one o one moment, I think, I come across a reference to see Naples and Dry.

Presenter19:16

You drive.

Des Lynam19:17

Yes, I mean it was the ninety World Cup, by which time I'd had a lot of television experience, and I thought there's nothing in the world that can shake me, and whatever happens, I'll cope.

Presenter19:18

Was that you will

Des Lynam19:27

Didn't cope.

Des Lynam19:28

It was the ninety World Cup. Occasionally they would send me out to front the match from the ground.

Des Lynam19:34

And some Jobsworth, Italian Jobsworth, had moved us about a few minutes before the broadcast, so we had to take the wires out, put it all somewhere else. So I was in some state of anxiety when we went on, and I didn't quite hear the cue.

Des Lynam19:46

And on I went, and I completely lost what I was saying. And I just stared at the camera for a bit. I eventually picked it up, but I felt mortified with embarrassment. It didn't last very long.

Presenter19:54

Just felt like two hours.

Des Lynam19:55

Oh, a lifetime, like a lifetime And I I described it afterwards as Sea Naples and Drive.

Presenter20:02

Music

Des Lynam20:04

Well, this isn't a song, this is a talking record. I hope that's okay on the show. It's Bob Newhart introducing tobacco to civilization. I've I've never smoked in my life, I'm happy to say, and I think this underlines that it's not a habit that one should ever do if you can possibly avoid it.

Presenter20:07

Salam Salam.

Speaker 120:08

Uh

Speaker 420:20

Yeah.

Speaker 420:20

You can put it in a pipe.

Speaker 420:23

Poor?

Speaker 420:27

Ha ha.

Speaker 420:29

You can spread it up.

Speaker 420:31

Yeah.

Speaker 420:34

What?

Speaker 420:35

Put it on a piece of paper.

Speaker 420:37

Ha ha ha.

Speaker 420:41

Whoa, that's a

Speaker 420:44

Don't tell me, Walt, you stick it in your ear, right, Walt?

Presenter20:49

Bob Newhart introducing tobacco to civilization.

Des Lynam20:52

Still makes me

Presenter20:53

It's very good, isn't it? Walt, I love Walt. Oh, Walt.

Presenter20:57

So let's go back to your going, Des. What was it really all about? I know you said, you know, you feel like time for a change and all that, and what was it all about?

Des Lynam21:05

I did say once in an interview that I said working for the BBs is not a job, it's a cause. And I always felt that to an extent and still do.

Des Lynam21:15

I found working for sport there were people running the thing, not directly running it, but above in in in senior management who I felt lost the cause.

Des Lynam21:23

They started losing uh a lot of sport, which I've honestly felt that the BBC could have afforded. For example, to give you an example, they lost the FA Cup uh a few years ago, and I was told that the choice was either to keep Match of the Day or the FA Cup. And I thought

Des Lynam21:38

I said at the time, why shouldn't we be given that choice? The B B C's going down a lot of other roads, new channels, etcetera., which I'm not totally in agreement with, and I felt they sh it was something they should have kept, the FA Cup. They've now bought it back at a greatly inflated price.

Des Lynam21:53

And they could have kept it for much less money at the time as one of the examples.

Presenter21:56

I mean, when you're in competition with Sky when who are prepared because sport is one of the driving forces of their business, you the BBC can't compete, can it?

Des Lynam22:06

Well, I think the BBC can compete up to a point. I'm not saying the BBC should retain everything they used to have. They were bound to lose some sport and they were bound to lose some big contracts. I mean, the motor racing went and that that was going to happen because they were going to pay ten times the amount that had previously been paid. But there were certain things I felt they could have kept. There were programmes they could have scheduled better. So I was beginning to get

Des Lynam22:29

bitter, but a little bit somewhat annoyed, and I used to

Presenter22:36

Because you thought Matter of the Day should be on at a set time, didn't you?

Des Lynam22:38

It should have been on a decept time and now when I left they put it on a decept time.

Presenter22:42

Well, quite and indeed they got the FA Cup back.

Des Lynam22:44

And they've got the FA Cupback, but they've lost match of the day.

Presenter22:47

But I wonder if there's something else in all of that. It it's this business about being the hired hand, no matter how much you're regarded out there by the people as being the face of B B C sport. The fact is, your opinions aren't always heard or listened to.

Des Lynam23:01

If you're a broadcaster, that's always the case. I remember Robin Day writing in his autobiography that very thing about he'd had all those years of experience, but there'd be twenty-five-year-olds telling him what they were going to do.

Presenter23:11

And nobody rang you up, did they, when they lost the FA Cup?

Des Lynam23:14

I read it in the paper that they'd lost the FA Cut. It was extraordinary. Then I stormed in and said, What's going on?

Presenter23:18

So was that part of it?

Des Lynam23:20

It was a part of it. There were a lot of of quite a few things really. I mean, it was a I was I was less enamoured with the place uh than I had been. Um

Des Lynam23:28

But I never knocked the BBC because as I said right at the beginning it's a wonderful organisation.

Presenter23:30

But

Presenter23:31

But you obviously felt that the that the men, if not the man at the top then, was letting the sports side down.

Des Lynam23:38

I don't think John Burt had sport in mind in the way that probably his successor would like to have.

Presenter23:44

Yes, although he was a great football fan, of course.

Des Lynam23:46

He went to the matches.

Presenter23:47

But you're and he played in some way but your your going, of course, coincided with Greg Dyke's coming, who is sport's greatest fan. And indeed, you know, he has got the FA cut back. It is all ha I mean, bad timing, Des.

Des Lynam23:57

He has got the effect.

Des Lynam24:02

No, he's got the FA Cup back, but he's lost match of the day. He's got six programmes a year and lost thirty six.

Presenter24:06

But he's I mean at least he's he's working in that direction that you want and he's put Match of the Day on at the set time that you always said it should be.

Des Lynam24:13

Yes, I'm not sure that was entirely down to him, but I did have a discussion with him when he first was about to be appointed and told him what was wrong with it all.

Des Lynam24:22

And he was very ambitious to to get contracts back at the time. But I don't think if you if you look at it, I don't think BBC really got con they've got the FA Cup back, but they've lost the regular Saturday night football, which now comes to I T V.

Presenter24:36

Hmm.

Des Lynam24:36

So um it's it's a very it's a very difficult road.

Presenter24:39

It's a very expensive road, as we know, and the BBC can't possibly compete with the kinds of figures that are now being given for the future.

Des Lynam24:44

But I think

Des Lynam24:46

They can't, but they've still got an outstanding sports portfolio. I mean, they've got Wimbledon, the Open Championship, we've just a couple of months ago saw the Olympics, etcetera.

Presenter24:53

Greg Dyke said publicly as you went that you might have made a big mistake. Do you think he was a bit right?

Des Lynam24:59

No. I think he might have made a big mistake. Becoming Director General is is a totally poisoned chalice. No, that's quite flippant. No, I d I haven't made a big mistake because I'm perfectly happy doing what I'm doing. I don't look back. I like the people I'm working with and the product's great. And I'm not working day in, day out. I like that too. I told you I was quite lazy.

Presenter25:19

Next piece of music. What is it? Number six.

Des Lynam25:21

Well, it's it goes back to that nineteen ninety World Cup and the theme music, Ness and Dormer, of course.

Des Lynam25:28

And I was somewhat involved in picking it as the theme tune.

Des Lynam25:34

My partner and I were thinking about what should be the theme tune of the World Cup, and we we came up with Pavarotti.

Des Lynam25:40

And we actually came up with o solo mio, which has got ice cream connotations actually, but and one or two people said, We've never had a vocal uh you know, as a signature tune. You can't have a vocal'cause you can't quite put the pictures to it.

Des Lynam25:52

And then one of my colleagues who ran the football, he was all for it.

Des Lynam25:57

And and in the end it became Nessen Dormar.

Speaker 126:09

Holy souls.

Presenter26:59

Guciano Pavarotti singing Nesundoma, None shall sleep. It was appropriate.

Des Lynam27:03

Most appropriately. I don't think we knew the translation where we picked it, to be perfectly honest, frankly.

Presenter27:03

Most of Prevent.

Presenter27:06

Virginis Turrent, of course, it's from with the London Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Zubin Mehter there. Of course the great trick of sports presentation, it seems to me, is is authorship, isn't it? I mean, we were talking earlier on about about

Presenter27:21

Knowing what the audience is thinking, but it's also you being able to react in the way that they might. It's leading from the front in that way, isn't it?

Des Lynam27:29

Yes, in a way, but you're you're you're you're getting it back probably from the viewers'cause you're you're thinking how are they reacting? Somebody uh when I worked here in in radio, um eminent man, Cliff Morgan, who was my boss at the time, he said, Any fool can link in bach.

Des Lynam27:44

But it's what you'll say when I come back to her.

Des Lynam27:46

And I thought that was absolutely true.

Presenter27:48

'Cause that's when you're thinking on your feet.

Des Lynam27:49

Yeah.

Presenter27:50

Watching it, feeling it.

Des Lynam27:52

The same thing.

Presenter27:52

So you're not a sports bore, as you said earlier on, um but you love it nevertheless as as a punter as it

Des Lynam27:58

I do because I still get off on going to sports even when I'm not working. I mean, I go to football on Saturdays when I'm not now working on uh on a Saturday. I al go almost every week.

Presenter28:07

Do does that mean that you don't dread retirement? Does it mean you might retire when you used to say you'd retire at fifty-five, you're now fifty-eight?

Des Lynam28:14

Yeah.

Presenter28:15

Minded him.

Des Lynam28:15

Thanks. Um yeah, I know I did say that, but things change, don't they?

Presenter28:19

But do you dread the idea of retirement?

Des Lynam28:21

I don't think in our business you do quit totally. I think I'd probably find some little radio station or some write do a bit of writing.

Presenter28:30

Now here on your next record is is perhaps a bit more of the real des coming out. It's it may be something that's common to television presenters, because again, Robin Day also fancied himself as a song and dance man. That's what this is about, isn't it?

Des Lynam28:42

Me too. It is, yes. Um it comes from Chicago, the show Chicago, which is wonderful. You know, if you can perform it, if you can dance to it and sing with it, it's just magnificent.

Speaker 428:55

Given the old

Des Lynam28:55

Uh

Speaker 428:57

Harango Dance of

Speaker 428:59

Rasaldasilum

Speaker 429:03

Since the days of old Methuselah, Everyone loves the big Bamboozala, Give him the old three ring circus, Stomach.

Speaker 129:10

Evan Dio

Presenter29:18

Henry Goodman singing Razzle Dazzle from Chicago, so you're just a ham at heart, Dave.

Des Lynam29:23

Could be. Makes you want to dance there, doesn't it?

Presenter29:25

Uh

Presenter29:25

What do you is that what you're going to do on this desert island, or will that Irish melancholia take over?

Des Lynam29:31

Danger of

Presenter29:31

Danger of it

Des Lynam29:31

Uh

Presenter29:31

Okay.

Des Lynam29:31

Yes. I'd get gloomy for a while and then self-preservation would uh would mean I'd have to get up and move around and

Presenter29:37

Would you like some

Des Lynam29:37

Would you like some

Presenter29:38

Hunting gatherer. Aren't you a hunter-gatherer now?

Des Lynam29:41

But not for food.

Presenter29:44

I get that impression that you're perhaps you've got you know,'cause you've been so professionally successful that you've been able to organize your life so somebody else makes the dinner and the bed and does the VAT.

Des Lynam29:55

Yes.

Des Lynam29:56

To a large extent, I I confess. I mean, the thing is whenever I go to the supermarket, I spend my entire time there conversing with people about because I always feel a bit when I walk past buildings like those model girls who who go you know, those girls in tight short skirts who go past buildings and all the guys sh shout at them and whistle at them, they do it to me.

Presenter29:57

Too late.

Des Lynam30:16

Silly old grey haired fifty eight year old, they all shouted Ah Dazanel

Des Lynam30:20

Quite extraordinary.

Presenter30:21

So, away from it all, you'll have none of it on the desert island. Will you miss it? I mean, has it been important to you? Is it important to you that?

Des Lynam30:21

Yeah.

Presenter30:28

Celebrity status with small C and small S, but but that that comfortable, nice, warming celebrity status.

Des Lynam30:35

I like to think that I I sometimes say I hate the lack of privacy about walking down the street. But I suppose you get used to it. But um if I went to a desert island I I I don't think I'd I'd I'd miss that very much. But I I would um

Des Lynam30:51

I would be very melancholic for a time, I think.

Presenter30:54

You'd write gloomy poetry, I bet, wouldn't you?

Des Lynam30:56

I would try and find some food, I think, first, Sue, and probably do the poetry later on that day.

Presenter31:01

Tell me about your last record.

Des Lynam31:04

Well, it sounds like a bit of a cliche this, and I hope she won't think so, and I hope she'll think think that it's uh it's nice. Um this is really from from my partner Rose with whom I've lived for sixteen years. We've had some wonderful times, we've had a few downs, we've had some great times. The downs have always been because of me usually, but um

Des Lynam31:21

This song absolutely sums up our relationship, really. I'm out there owning a few Bob and being quite well known and enjoying what I'm doing, and behind me there's this lady who's sort of running my life really, and part of my life, and she's a great old girl.

Speaker 431:39

Did you ever know that you're my hero?

Speaker 431:47

Everything I would like to

Speaker 431:57

An ego.

Speaker 432:03

You are the wind and even my wave

Presenter32:08

Bet Middler and The Wind Beneath My Wings. It's a great song. If you could only take one of the eight, Des, which one would it be?

Des Lynam32:16

I'd take the theme from Housewives' Choice in party mood and I could hammer along to it day after day and drive myself mad.

Presenter32:22

What about your book as well as the Bible in Shakespeare?

Des Lynam32:25

I'm not a man who ever wants to read the same book more than once, so uh on that basis I've I've picked uh the Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine because I think that um I I probably have to cure myself from time to time, or at least I'd like to read through the the various diseases that I think I've probably got anyway.

Presenter32:41

Not least good exactly or hypochondriac. What about your luxury?

Des Lynam32:43

What a b

Des Lynam32:45

Well, if I couldn't have been a song and dance man, I'd like to have been a drummer. Now, I've never played the drums in my entire life, but I'd like a drum kit because, well, there are no neighbours to bother are there, so I could really have a go at it and perhaps learn to do it.

Presenter32:57

Desmond Michael Lynum. Des Lynham, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Des Lynam33:02

Pleasure to see. Thank you.

Speaker 133:11

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/radio four.