Sir Norman Wisdom

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in the year two thousand, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My castaway this week is an entertainer. For more than fifty years he's played the part of the plucky little man who wins against the odds. Ever so clumsy, but with a big heart, he's the archetypal underdog, a perfect British hero. It's a performance which has some echoes of real life in it. His childhood was full of hardship and deprivation. He once walked from London to Cardiff to become a minor, and ended up as a cabin boy on a voyage to Argentina. But it was in the army that he found companionship and the talent which has supported him ever since. A favourite of the Queen Mother, he was knighted this summer and appeared as one of the star attractions in her birthday pageant. He is Sir Norman Wisdom. It's surprising really, Norman, that the royal family had you round, isn't it? Because

Sir Norman Wisdom1:13

The role of family.

Presenter1:16

Didn't you break all the vases last time you went to Buckingham Palace or Windsor Castle?

Sir Norman Wisdom1:20

I'm sorry, I can't help laughing when you say Sir Norman.

Presenter1:23

We haven't got used to it yet.

Sir Norman Wisdom1:24

Yeah.

Presenter1:28

Come on, tell me about breaking the vases.

Sir Norman Wisdom1:30

But oh yeah, well I I did a sh a sh private show at Windsor Castle and the the front of the stage was bedecked with flowers in vases and in the centre was just about four steps going down. And when I'd finished my act as it were, the Queen was sitting there and and and applauding and I turned round and was starting to go up the steps and I suddenly thought hey wait a minute what are you doing? You can't turn your back on the Queen. Oh you lunatic. And so I turned round and I walked up the stairs backwards but I I missed the steps and fell in all the vases and she screamed with laughter. But then I said, don't worry Your Majesty, I'll pay.

Sir Norman Wisdom2:10

I bet you haven't.

Presenter2:11

I bet you haven't, have you?

Sir Norman Wisdom2:12

No, no. No, I didn't even get the bill on the

Presenter2:15

Norman, that's really in many ways how it all began, isn't it? In the army.

Sir Norman Wisdom2:20

Realize

Presenter2:20

Realizing that you could make people laugh because I think it was in the officer's mess, wasn't it? In your big army bed.

Sir Norman Wisdom2:26

Well that came around, but I think originally you see, I I joined the army because well I was sleeping rough, had no family, nowhere to live.

Sir Norman Wisdom2:35

I'm green and everything cold.

Sir Norman Wisdom2:39

And and uh actually I was sleeping rough behind the Marshall Fox statue in Victoria Station, just uh and I used to go over about half past two in the morning to a coffee stall attendant and I used to look over the counter and the blokes eventually said to me, What what's the matter with you? and I told him the truth, so he pushed me a hot pie and a cup of bottle. He did this for about seven or eight nights. And one night he said to me, Why why didn't you join the army? You'll have somewhere to sleep and I said, I can't get in the army at at my size. I was four foot ten and a half and I weighed five stone nine. He said, You can get into the band as a boy when you're fourteen. So I said, All right, actually and I went to the the recruiting centre and in the afternoon I had an interview with the bandmaster who said to me, Right now he said you you know all about music, do you? I said, Oh, yes, sir. And he said, Well, what's a flat? And I said, Um I don't know that one, sir.

Sir Norman Wisdom3:45

And he looked at me and said, Well, what's a sharp? and I said, Oh, funny enough, I I haven't come across that one either, so.

Sir Norman Wisdom3:53

And he looked at me and he said, You don't know anything about music at all, do you?

Sir Norman Wisdom3:58

and I knew he was going to chuck me out.

Sir Norman Wisdom4:00

And I looked at him

Sir Norman Wisdom4:01

And I did the best act I've ever done in my life. I mean this. I looked at that man and I said, No, sir, but I'd I'd like a chance to learn. Please, sir, then as I grow up I can earn a living.

Presenter4:14

For myself. Oh, please. But was it an actual it was real if you were in those kinds of circumstances.

Sir Norman Wisdom4:17

Okay.

Sir Norman Wisdom4:20

Well I was acting, yes. He looked at me. I'll never forget it as long as I live. He looked at me and he said, All right.

Sir Norman Wisdom4:27

I'll take you. And I had him beat. He was so sorry for me. And I got in the army. You know, this is really true. So only two weeks later, I was on my way to India, having the time of my life. Wonderful weather, my own bed, wonderful food, football, cricket, swimming. And I was put onto clarinet and saxophone. I was learning music and wonderful mates.

Speaker 14:32

Probably.

Sir Norman Wisdom4:57

Those six years I did in India were the happiest time of my life ever.

Presenter5:03

Tell me about your first record.

Sir Norman Wisdom5:05

Having learnt music, well I wrote a nice song doing my first film, Travel in Store, and Patty Carstairs, the director, said, I wish we had a song, because it was a nice spot just by the pond and feeding the ducks. And I said, well, I I've written one. He said, don't be silly. He said, you've done half the gags as well. Forget it. So I went over to the bandroom and I chatted the the pianist there. I said, Paddy Carstairs is looking for a song for me. Put your name on this and pretend that you've written it and see what he thinks about it. The following afternoon Paddy Carstairs came to me and he said, Norman,

Sir Norman Wisdom5:46

I think I have a song for you. And I said, You're joking. He said, I'm not joking. Come over to the music room and listen. And the pianist played it and sang it as well. And when he'd finished, Paddy Cars said, Well, yeah, what do you think of that? And I remember. So I said, Well, it's not bad. He said, Well, you're going to sing it. Oh, I said, All right then. So I did. And that was Don't Laugh at Me which I had written and which I'm very proud of.

Speaker 36:11

I love the flowers, I love the sun.

Speaker 36:18

But when I try to love the girls

Speaker 36:23

They laugh at me.

Speaker 36:26

And wrong.

Sir Norman Wisdom6:31

Don't laugh at me.

Sir Norman Wisdom6:35

Cause I'm a fool.

Presenter6:37

Don't laugh at me'cause I'm a fool, sung by my castaway Norman Wisdom, and that was recorded in nineteen fifty two and of course was the big number in that first big film, Troubled in Story. Um the character was Norman Pitkin.

Sir Norman Wisdom6:47

Oh yes.

Presenter6:51

Suit too small, cap with the little peak turned up, all of it not. How did he come into being? When did you create him?

Sir Norman Wisdom6:57

The gump. Oh, the gump.

Presenter6:59

Yummy

Sir Norman Wisdom7:02

At the Spa Theatre of Scarborough in in 47. And I was sharing a dressing room with a conjurer, and he said to me, Hey, Norman, I've got an idea. I said, What's that? He said, Well, look, when I invite someone up from the audience to come and help me do a trick, if it's you, we'll get a few laughs and it'll work that way, it'll help me out. I said, How would you like me to dress then? He said, Well, a bit scruffy, but all right. And I went into town and I sort of an Oxfam type of shop and I bought a little tight-fitting second-hand suit for thirty shillings and a cap for one shilling. And it was so successful that Bernard Delphon, who was my agent at that time, he came and and said that's fine. And he booked us at the London Cathedral, it was a double act.

Presenter7:52

But were you doing those prat falls? Were you falling over and stumbling and generally that was him? And the kind of the suit makes you do that in a way. You're just sort of awkward.

Sir Norman Wisdom7:52

Doing those

Sir Norman Wisdom7:55

Oh yeah.

Sir Norman Wisdom8:00

Why is it stuffy, poor little devil?

Presenter8:00

Blow.

Presenter8:02

Yeah.

Sir Norman Wisdom8:03

We could have been a double act then, but he did not want to be a double act. And now he was a a a very dear friend of mine until sadly he died. His name was David Nixon.

Presenter8:06

The conjurer.

Presenter8:14

It was David Nixon.

Sir Norman Wisdom8:14

David Nixon.

Presenter8:16

Yeah.

Sir Norman Wisdom8:16

A lovely smashing bloke here.

Presenter8:17

And that's how it all began. Because of course you he, Norman Pitkin, this gump, appeared on television before he was in the films Trouble in Store and so on, wasn't he? You you've done a lot of television. I don't know if anybody was watching in the late forties.

Sir Norman Wisdom8:26

Oh yeah.

Sir Norman Wisdom8:30

Bits of television, but I was also I I starred at the Prince of Wells Theatre in London in a in a show called Paris to Piccadilly. And that's when the film people came along and uh well Billy Marsh, who was my agent working for the Bernardel Font at that time, came and said, Norman, Norman, the rank organisation would like to sign your first seven years on a contract. And I said, You're joking He said, No and that was right. That's I did the firm first film.

Presenter8:56

Wonderful. And it was a huge success, straight off, wasn't it? Early fifties.

Sir Norman Wisdom9:00

Yes, I'd like to hear you say that. I can't say that again and go on anyway.

Presenter9:02

It was a huge success. Let's pause for your second record. What is it?

Sir Norman Wisdom9:07

Oh that's well odd, you see. I I love to hear really marvellous voices like Mario Lanza, if he could do the the drinking song.

Speaker 39:18

Let the coast farm and play young hearts live apart The final

Speaker 39:25

Let every true lover salute his feet hard. Let's drink.

Presenter9:38

Yeah.

Speaker 39:38

Uh

Presenter9:39

Yeah.

Presenter9:40

Yeah.

Presenter9:40

How about

Sir Norman Wisdom9:41

How about that, Anne?

Presenter9:41

Wonderful. Mario Lanza and the Drinking Song. That was a student prince back in the fifties, I think. But of course what we forget, Norman, and forgive me for reminding you, is that that you were born in the middle of the First World War. I mean, a long time before all this great success we were talking about.

Sir Norman Wisdom9:41

Wonderful there.

Sir Norman Wisdom9:46

Good.

Speaker 39:54

I mean a long time before all this

Speaker 19:56

Yeah.

Presenter9:59

Um

Presenter10:00

And your life, your childhood, as I indicated in the introduction, was pretty hellish, wasn't it? Father was a bit of a thug.

Sir Norman Wisdom10:06

Sadly, my parents split up and were divorced when I was nine and my dear brother was eleven. Mother had left home, obviously.

Presenter10:15

She she left because he was violent.

Sir Norman Wisdom10:16

She left familiar he chucked her out, more or less.

Presenter10:18

Oh really?

Sir Norman Wisdom10:18

Oh, really? Yeah. And he claimed th the custody of the children only because he didn't want her to have them. He was a chauffeur. He used to be away for weeks, sometimes months, and it became a a question of beg, steal, or starve.

Presenter10:24

Yeah.

Speaker 310:24

Yeah.

Presenter10:24

Yeah.

Speaker 310:24

Hmm.

Presenter10:33

Mm.

Sir Norman Wisdom10:33

That's what we used to do with steel.

Presenter10:35

But in the end he farmed you out, didn't he?

Sir Norman Wisdom10:37

Oh, yeah, that's right. He he suddenly decided he didn't want responsibility to his children any more, so he put us with guardians and and they chucked us out. So father came and picked us up and put us with some more guardians. The same thing happened again. Then he

Presenter10:51

But you you must have been quite pleased that he got rid of you in a sense because when you when you were with him he walloped you.

Sir Norman Wisdom10:58

I remember honestly him picked me up one day and he he was so annoyed with me for something I don't know I don't know broke a cup or something he picked me up and he threw me and I remember I I hit the ceiling.

Sir Norman Wisdom11:11

And then I come down the other side of the room.

Speaker 311:13

Hmm.

Sir Norman Wisdom11:14

Really true. But then because of my chums at school, I was going to school in those days that they found some people who who'd been trying to adopt some kids and so they introduced me to them and they took me on. And I I was with them until I left school at the age of thirteen.

Presenter11:30

Then you were back in London, back on the streets, and at some point you decide to to walk to Cardiff, to become a minor. Why on earth would you decide to do that?

Sir Norman Wisdom11:40

Oh, that well well, I got jobs all over at Deal as well, and then I was in London, I tried I had a job as a as a commie waiter.

Sir Norman Wisdom11:48

Uh and that didn't work. I got the sex.

Presenter11:50

Why, you were just badly behaved, were you? You didn't do the job properly.

Sir Norman Wisdom11:53

Well, they call me waiter. I I'd been all collecting all the trays with porridge, marmalade, and carrying the tray on my shoulder like the waiters used to, and I wanted to try and do the same. And I opened the trellis door of the lift to call the page boy to bring the lift up. And as I leant forward, I dropped the breakfast tray down the lift shaft, and there was marmalade and coffee all over the walls. Do you know the head waiter I've had a sack many times before and since, but it's the nicest way. He he I remember he looked at me and he said, Look, if I get you another job, will you leave?

Sir Norman Wisdom12:27

And he did get me another job.

Presenter12:29

So you've always been naturally accident prone. That is part of you. Again, that's what's fed into your professional.

Sir Norman Wisdom12:30

With bean.

Sir Norman Wisdom12:34

That's what's fed into.

Sir Norman Wisdom12:36

Not so much now, I do it deliberately now. But anyway, that that waiter got me a job as a page boy, which was a boring job. There was about five or six other page boys, and one of them said to me one day, he said, Why don't we w go and work down the mine, did he see my Welsh accent. And so we went about two mornings later, we had a a a cardboard box full of sandwiches, and we did walk all the way to Cardiff. But when we got to Cardiff, they left me. But I was very lucky, I went down the docks and some blokes were sorry for me. They went and got me a job on a ship called the Mendy Court as a cabin boy. And just two days later, I was on my way going across the Bay of Bisky, having wonderful times, despite the fact that I was leaning over the side going,

Presenter12:41

Yeah.

Speaker 113:04

Yeah.

Sir Norman Wisdom13:25

Hmm.

Presenter13:25

We'll leave you there for a minute and we'll pause for some more music. Tell me about your third one.

Sir Norman Wisdom13:30

Oh, well no, that's a a song. It's one of my favourites because it's a lovely melody and nice lyrics and I did it in a film called Follow a Star. And that, strangely enough, is the name of the song.

Sir Norman Wisdom13:56

My life will revolve around

Presenter14:01

Run.

Presenter14:04

I cast away Norman Wisdom and Follower Star. So, Norman, you were thirteen years old, on board this this cargo boat to Buenos Aires, carrying coal, I think. But I suppose the point of the story is that you were part of a community the crew and so on. Did they accept you?

Sir Norman Wisdom14:20

The crew used to take the Mickey out of me because I was small and all that, but but they were nice to me. And you know, they used to do exercises and they used to do boxing as well. And one day uh one of the blokes came over and said, You want to go, son? And I said, Oh, no, no, thank you And he said, It's all right, don't worry, we won't hurt you So they put the boxing gloves on and they taught me how to box. And you know, when we got to Bundes Aires, I knew why they taught me how to box, because they took me and put me into a boxing booth.

Sir Norman Wisdom14:49

Really true.

Presenter14:50

What? Like cockfighting, I suppose?

Sir Norman Wisdom14:51

Boxing booth, that's not legal now.

Presenter14:54

So this would be against local Argentinians, would it?

Sir Norman Wisdom14:57

Oh, yes. And I went in the ring and I was smashed to the floor. I was smothered in blood and the crew were standing by the ring saying, Get up, son, come on, you're doing well and I'd get up on my feet and so I'd I'd won really and I went to change and and then I went to get the money and the crew had collected the money and shoved off. But you know, I didn't mind really because the following morning they were ruffling my hair and saying, Well done, son and I felt that I'd become uh maybe a little bit of a man.

Presenter15:27

But you know, all of that came to an end, the cargo boat, and when you got back to Cardiff.

Presenter15:32

as you say, fourteen years old by then.

Sir Norman Wisdom15:35

Yeah.

Presenter15:36

Christmas Day

Sir Norman Wisdom15:37

Oh, oh, I'll never forget Christmas Day. I went to the Labour Exchange, you know, asked them if they could go get me a job and they hadn't got a job, but I told them the position I was in and you know, they sent me to a juvenile welfare in Cardiff. There was about seventeen or eighteen boys my age-ish, but this was just before Christmas. And you know, everybody had been invited out and I just missed it. I was the only one left, and on Christmas Day I I was all by myself and had sausages and mash for my Christmas dinner on Christmas Day and I remember.

Sir Norman Wisdom16:17

That's the only time I remember crying, really.

Presenter16:20

But I mean, it just is an an endlessly terrible story, Norman. Di did you just

Presenter16:26

kind of roll with it and accept I mean, from everything you've said, one can hear you tried to think positively through it. But when was the moment when you said to yourself, I've had enough of this, I'm really going to make something happen for myself?

Sir Norman Wisdom16:39

Well we're saying it all the time. Many

Sir Norman Wisdom16:42

It did me it did me good. I look I look back on it now. Yes, you can say it now, but at the time it

Presenter16:46

Yes, you can say it now, but at the time it can't have felt like that.

Sir Norman Wisdom16:50

No, but I didn't know any different really. I'd never had good food or b brought up and all and everything. It wasn't till I got into the army that that things began to happen. And I owe everything to the army.

Presenter17:06

Let's have number four. What's it to be?

Sir Norman Wisdom17:08

You know, one of my favourite singers. Beautiful voice, clarity of diction and, well, Frank Sinatra, the best ever.

Sir Norman Wisdom17:18

Sorry for you, she has no sister.

Sir Norman Wisdom17:26

No angel.

Speaker 317:27

Yeah.

Sir Norman Wisdom17:28

Could we play?

Speaker 117:30

Uh

Sir Norman Wisdom17:32

No.

Speaker 117:32

Uh

Sir Norman Wisdom17:33

Dancing with a laughing face

Presenter17:39

Frank Sinatra and Nancy with a laughing face. So, as you say, you fell on your feet in the army, Norman, and uh you learned to play lots of instruments, you learned to sing.

Sir Norman Wisdom17:47

Instruments you learn to sing.

Presenter17:49

And you became an entertainer, but what was the point then at which you suddenly realized you could make people laugh?

Sir Norman Wisdom17:58

We suddenly did a show at the officers' mess, which was a bit, you know, the officers were very much like that in those days. And I was doing the tap dance and the officers started to laugh. And I thought, well, I'm in cheek. So I danced and I deliberately tripped. And they laughed louder. So I thought, oh, right, so I tripped and I fell over and they screamed with laughter and um I sat on the floor and got, oh dear, oh dear and suddenly I thought to myself, wait a minute, hey, they're laughing, that's it, comedy and then I started with the falls in the concept and everything, you see.

Presenter18:34

So then out of the army and onto the stage, Norman. And I must say a host of well known people seem to have given you a helping hand along the way. There was Rex Harrison, who told you you ought to turn professional, and then there was Vera Lynn, who gave you a uh her star spot in a charity show. And Gracie Fields, of course, the star of your next record actually. She gave you a boost along the way, didn't she?

Sir Norman Wisdom18:55

Actually I was playing pantomime in in Wolverhampton and some people came round and Henry Hall said, We would like you to do a show for us. Can you skate? and I said, Of course I could skate. I couldn't really. He said, Right, well we'd like to see you when you finish pantomime, which will be about six weeks from now. And then so I went every day into Birmingham to an ice rink and practiced skating. And then six weeks later they said, yes, let's let's see you skate. I mean I managed to hobble round as it were and when I came back their faces looked very dubious. I looked at them and I said, no, don't worry, I said I haven't done it for ages, I shall soon pick it up again. And I got the job. That was it. Now on the opening night Henry Hall made a speech and right over the other side of the ring was a beautiful lady. Henry Hall introduced her, Miss Gracie Field. And the audience applauded and some people started out, give us a song, Gracie, give us a song. She stood up and she hobbled very carefully across the ice and Henry Hall helped her up, thought that she was going to sing, but no, she didn't sing. She came right through the crowds, separating the girls and the boy over, took me by the arm, led me forward. And this sounds terribly swanky, Sue, I'm saying you listen. She looked at the audience with me in her arms and she said, Ladies and gentlemen, this young man is going to be one of our best performers and comedians ever.

Speaker 320:26

Chirruping of the bird is on the sycamore tree. They're lucky to be, so happy and free. I know that they're chirruping out a little did it. I hear them saying early every morning, get up, get up, get up. The chirruping of the bird is on the sycamore tree. It's lovely to see them having a spree. A cheeky one this morning popped up on the sill and said,

Presenter20:57

That was Gracie Field singing The Dicky Bird Hop. So, Norman, as we know, you had this very successful career, some twenty films or so during the fifties and sixties, and just as many after that.

Presenter21:10

Television sitcoms, Royal Variety performances. Got nominated for an Oscar once, didn't you?

Sir Norman Wisdom21:15

Oh yeah, yes.

Presenter21:16

The night they raided Minskis.

Sir Norman Wisdom21:17

That's right,'cause that was in America I did that film.

Presenter21:19

Boom.

Sir Norman Wisdom21:20

'Cause, you know, the Broadway shows I did on Broadway and America and all that.

Presenter21:24

That's right. And you worked with Audrey Hepburn and Noel Ca you even clutched Marilyn Munro's bosom. How did that happen? Who told you that? A little bird.

Sir Norman Wisdom21:34

No, no. I was falling over and I was just accidental, that was.

Presenter21:38

Oh really?

Sir Norman Wisdom21:38

Yeah,'cause I'm not a rude little devil.

Presenter21:40

No, it was a sort of ac one of those accidental falls, or something.

Sir Norman Wisdom21:43

She was very nice. She'd been in to watch me making films at Pinewood Studios because she was w working with Laurence Olivier in Prince of the Pauper and she'd watched me and hadn't had a chance to say hello and I was walking along the corridor at Pinewood Studios and she was coming in the opposite direction and she got right opposite, hadn't even looked at me and then she suddenly did look at me, turned, ran over, grabbed hold of me and kissed me. She kissed me on the gob. Did she? Yes, oh yes. Oh she was lovely.

Presenter22:16

But all these people you met you met Charlie Chaplin, as you say, you appeared with Laurel and Hardy.

Sir Norman Wisdom22:20

Lawlin

Presenter22:21

You had a very

Presenter22:22

Firm foothold in the States'cause you were on Broadway. Why didn't you go on and make it big there?

Sir Norman Wisdom22:29

Um, well, a bit sad, but I'll tell you, as I was married at that time and I I had two children, a son and a daughter, and my wife had found someone tall and good looking, and so I packed it all up to come back to look up look after my children, which I was very pleased I did, because they're a couple of crackers.

Presenter22:30

Mm.

Presenter22:52

Wh so you c you got custody of them, did you?

Sir Norman Wisdom22:55

Oh yeah, yeah. Actually I remember in the in the divorce I wanted custody of the children and so did my wife. And the judge said, I think the children are now at an age where they could choose for themselves. My son was twelve and my daughter was nearly eleven and suddenly the day after that I was told that my children had chosen me, both of them. And that was one of the most wonderful things that ever happened to me in my life.

Presenter23:23

So you brought them up.

Sir Norman Wisdom23:24

Yeah, oh yeah.

Presenter23:25

But you never remarried.

Sir Norman Wisdom23:27

No, no, no, I never risked

Presenter23:30

Well, you might yet, I friend.

Sir Norman Wisdom23:31

I don't know. Are you married? Eh? Go on, you told me.

Presenter23:34

I thought we could have some more music before I get into trouble. Number six, guess who's singing this? Tell me about this one.

Sir Norman Wisdom23:40

Oh, what falling in love? Well that's that's um very romantic in an amusing sort of way. Then as the list grew bigger, it became just a habit. Any chance of a date, it couldn't wait, or I'd just grab it. So I made up my mind to be much more fast tedious and try to avoid all the ones that were

Presenter24:06

Yes.

Presenter24:08

Norman Wisdom and Falling in Love

Presenter24:11

Obviously, Norman, from everything you've told us, you haven't done badly for a boy whom nobody wanted.

Sir Norman Wisdom24:17

A lucky little devil

Presenter24:18

Did you ever find your mother again, the mother who walked out on you when you were nine?

Sir Norman Wisdom24:21

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yes. Where was she? Well, I was doing a show at the Cambridge Theatre in 51.

Presenter24:24

Well wash

Sir Norman Wisdom24:32

Everybody was on stage having the applause, and I was only in the second row,'cause I wasn't the star, and suddenly there was a voice right up from the gods up the top, shouting out

Sir Norman Wisdom24:44

Norman Wisdom, Norman Wisdom, well done, Norman Wisdom And she kept on and on and on and no one was taking any notice and the stage manager had no ta he walked on stage just to try and stop her anyway, took me by the arm, led me through the front, and she shouted then, Well done, congratulations, Norman Wisdom, well done, Norman And it went on and the curtain came down, so I went to the dressing room, I was changing, and the stage doorkeeper came round and said, Norman, there's a lady would like to see you. And he brought the lady in, and it was my mother. It was my mother.

Presenter25:23

It was what? So that would have been twenty fi twenty seven years since you'd seen her.

Sir Norman Wisdom25:27

That's right, round about that time. Yeah, it was my mother and I I kept her and I never let her go.

Presenter25:33

Didn't you? Do you look after her afterwards?

Sir Norman Wisdom25:34

Do you look after her often?

Presenter25:37

And what about your father?

Sir Norman Wisdom25:39

Well, that kind of time when I was hungry and nowhere to sleep and all that, and I went to my grandmother. I remember my grandmother said, Yes, what do you want? And I said, Well, I'd like to find out where my father lives. So she said, Oh, well, I'll give you his address, which she did. And I went to found the address, knocked on the door. A lady came out and she said, Yes. What do you want? And I said, I'd like to see Mr Wisdom. And she said, Why? I said, Well, because he's my father and I'm his son. And she said, Oh.

Sir Norman Wisdom26:13

I'm his wife. So he'd married again, you see. Anyway, took me in, put me in the front room, and she said he'll be about an hour. And then I heard in the hall, Oh, wait, you know, she was telling him who it was and all that. And then the door opened, and I stood up and I said, Hello, Dad.

Sir Norman Wisdom26:34

He just looked at me, pointed to the front door, and said Out

Sir Norman Wisdom26:40

I walked down the front steps, and I turned round, and he slammed the door in my face, and I said, I'll never see you again, ever.

Sir Norman Wisdom26:49

And I never did.

Presenter26:51

And do you know if if he ever knew that

Presenter26:54

Was he still around when you became a star? Did he

Sir Norman Wisdom26:58

I don't know that. I never found that out either.

Presenter27:02

Number seven.

Sir Norman Wisdom27:04

I was recording Don't Laugh at Me and there was a very nice lady called Joyce Grenville who was recording in the next studio and suddenly there was a break for tea or coffee and the pianist was playing da dum da dum on the piano and da da da dum and I was going La dum diddle yum da dum and suddenly I heard behind me La dum da dum da dum you know similar stuff. I turned round and it was Joyce Grenville and we started laughing about together. And suddenly Norman Newell who was the boss in charge he'd been standing there and he was laughing and he said hey we are going to record that and you know a couple of days later we did.

Speaker 127:29

Uh

Sir Norman Wisdom27:55

I love that tune. Yes, it is nice.

Sir Norman Wisdom27:59

Catch you.

Sir Norman Wisdom28:00

What is it not?

Speaker 328:00

Yeah.

Sir Norman Wisdom28:03

Well, I know it.

Sir Norman Wisdom28:05

Because

Speaker 328:08

Yeah.

Sir Norman Wisdom28:09

Yeah. You must remember this, you've heard it before.

Speaker 328:09

You must remember this early.

Presenter28:18

Lovely Narcissus performed by my castaway Norman Wisdom with Joyce Grenfell.

Sir Norman Wisdom28:19

Uh

Presenter28:24

What about Norman Yu on this desert island? I mean, when you're not listening to yourself on record, what are you going to be doing there?

Sir Norman Wisdom28:31

Could I possibly ask you a favor? Could I take my motorbike?

Presenter28:36

Well, why not? If that's your luxury, yes.

Sir Norman Wisdom28:37

If that's your

Sir Norman Wisdom28:38

I'd love that,'cause then if I can get it on the pillion, if I could put a piano.

Sir Norman Wisdom28:44

I

Presenter28:44

And I don't think so, no. I think that's cheating.

Sir Norman Wisdom28:46

I think that's cheating.

Presenter28:49

So you've got the motorbike there, so you're going to ride around in circles on the motorbike. What else are you going to do with yourself?

Sir Norman Wisdom28:54

Well, are any any birds over there on the

Presenter28:56

Two parrots, yeah.

Presenter29:00

What about food? Think you could manage?

Sir Norman Wisdom29:03

Stew with dumplings. Could you get that on the island?

Presenter29:07

Not if you have a motorbike. You could have a pot of stew and not a motorbike, but you know

Sir Norman Wisdom29:10

Well, I know right if I can have a potter stew with dumplings if you can have the motorbike, I'll leave it over there.

Presenter29:18

Tell me about your last record, then.

Sir Norman Wisdom29:19

Last one. Well, it's you again.

Presenter29:20

It's you again.

Sir Norman Wisdom29:22

I was thinking about writing songs and I suddenly thought about why don't I have a song about writing a song. I think it's got a nice melody, a nice rhythm and the lyrics are alright. If I may say so, so I'm quite proud of it.

Presenter30:01

Writing a song sung by Norman Wisdom. Now, if you could only take one of those eight records, Norman, which one would you take?

Sir Norman Wisdom30:07

Don't laugh at me and

Sir Norman Wisdom30:09

And when I every time I hear it, it makes me sad, it makes me laugh because I was so lucky with it. Don't laugh at me, that that must be my favorite.

Presenter30:18

Don't laugh at me'cause I'm a fool. What about your book? You've got the Bible and Shakespeare.

Sir Norman Wisdom30:24

Reach for the skies.

Sir Norman Wisdom30:27

with Douglas Bad. That is a wonderful story. It's about a pilot in the war who had lost his legs and still flew and brought down so many German planes and is as marvellous, bravest

Sir Norman Wisdom30:46

Man I've ever read about.

Presenter30:49

And um your luxury is a potter stew. So there we are.

Sir Norman Wisdom30:52

Oh, you you missed something, a potter stew gone with the dumplings. Potter stew with dumplings. Two dumplings, not one, dumpling means.

Presenter30:58

Potter stew with dumplings

Presenter31:03

Sir Norman Wisdom, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Sir Norman Wisdom31:07

So thank you very much for inviting me to come along and I've thoroughly enjoyed myself.

Speaker 131:18

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co. uk slash radio four.

Speaker 332:06

Uh