Donald Sutherland

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 30:08

The programme was originally broadcast in the year two thousand, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:31

My castaway this week is an actor. If you've been to the cinema at all regularly over the past thirty years, you've almost certainly seen him in something the psychopath in the dirty dozen perhaps or the sensitive detective in Clute, or most famously as Hawkeye Pearce in MASH. His performances are always strong, clever and interesting. An actor, he says, is there to be moulded. Born in Canada, he started his career in England, but moved to Hollywood in his early thirties. Now he's back in the West End, where he first appeared on stage in 1958, in a new play called Enigmatic Variations. The man who suffers from stage fright has come back to where it all began, because acting for him is something he has to do to live. It is my life, he says. He is Donald Sutherland. You've gone as far as to say, Mr. Sutherland, that you would never stop acting, even if somebody paid you a million dollars. But why is it so necessary to

Donald Sutherland1:23

Well, maybe for a million.

Presenter1:25

Yeah.

Presenter1:26

What is it? It's obviously in your blood.

Donald Sutherland1:32

You let it go for a little bit and then it comes raging back.

Donald Sutherland1:38

and compels me to to go do it again. It's um

Presenter1:41

Even though every time you go do it you can be terribly sick, can't you? You get stage flight.

Donald Sutherland1:46

Dreadful, just dreadful. Even making movies, people say, Well, you don't get sick making I said, Yeah, the first that's why when when I have it now in my contract Gary Cooper had a contract

Donald Sutherland1:57

where he didn't have to speak for the first seven days. Ingemar Bergman used to shoot for the first week and throw that film out and then start the shooting again. My contract says that I don't have to do the beginning five or six minutes of my character's appearance in the film for the first two or three weeks of shooting so that the director and I get used to each other, so that the cameraman gets used to my face, so that we look at rushes and we make mistakes, and those mistakes appear in the middle of the film. And the audience takes their impression of the character in those first five or ten minutes.

Donald Sutherland2:33

the character they have and everything else is an aberration of something bad that's happened.

Presenter2:37

You mentioned the director and you've worked with some some of the the best, so many over the years, Fellini, Bertolucci, Louis Ma, Robert Altman, Robert Redford indeed.

Presenter2:47

It seems to me, reading everything you've said about them, that that relationship with the Directory is also what compels you about this acting business, isn't it? It's you you know, you've talked about it almost as if it's an affair itself.

Presenter3:01

It's a very intimate relationship.

Donald Sutherland3:03

It's excruciatingly intimate. It's it's so intimate.

Donald Sutherland3:08

That when the movie's finished and there's a a kind of void, a a lack of conversation of

Donald Sutherland3:16

That that sense of

Donald Sutherland3:20

desperation and inadequacy that happens when you end a love affair and

Donald Sutherland3:27

Your job is to find the truth, to find as much of the truth as you can and to give that information to him and he can take that and cut it together any way he wants and make his film out of it.

Presenter3:37

But therefore you're doing absolutely what he wants. You're allowing yourself to be manipulated by him. You become his thing, as it were. Why don't your opinions count?

Donald Sutherland3:49

Oh, but but but it's my information that I'm giving him. So tho that information is governed and and processed through my opinions and so so they do count and and it's a it's a vital relationship. It's vigorous.

Presenter4:01

I thought one of the the great directors you worked with, Nicholas Rogue, of course, who did Don't Look Now, told you that your opinion didn't count and you should mind your own business and do what he said.

Donald Sutherland4:09

Well, he did, and that taught me a huge lesson. You know, I told him I wanted, I thought the ending should be like this, and he said, Hang on a second, do you want to do the film? And I said, Yes, of course, I want to do the film. He said, Then do the film.

Donald Sutherland4:21

And I understood that directors make film, but they do. It's their vision that you have to satisfy.

Presenter4:26

I see entirely why they call you a a director's actor, but anyway. Um you're going to this desert island, no director, no wife, no nobody, just you, alone with your music. What music are you going to play? What's the first one?

Donald Sutherland4:38

Peggy Lee

Donald Sutherland4:39

And there's a song that she sings that that Frank Sinatra sang too, called The Best Is Yet to Come. I c I can only ever think of it in terms of the

Donald Sutherland4:49

First line, which is, out of the tree of life, I just picked me a plot.

Presenter4:53

Out of the tree of life, I just

Presenter4:57

Me a flower

Presenter5:00

Uh

Presenter5:03

You came along.

Presenter5:06

Everything started to hoo.

Presenter5:13

It's a real

Presenter5:15

But the best is yet to come.

Presenter5:23

Peggy Lee singing The Best Is Yet To Come Great song

Donald Sutherland5:25

That that that's what it's like to work with Fellini. Fellini used to sit on my knee and direct when he was making that film. He made a film called Fellini's Cazanova.

Presenter5:35

Fellini made you Casanova, but it was, of course, Nicholas Rogue, we were talking about earlier in Don't Look Now, who made you or confirmed you, as it were, as an international sex symbol with Don't Look Now.

Donald Sutherland5:44

So you could look at the market.

Presenter5:45

So you've got a lot to thank him for.

Donald Sutherland5:47

Well, it makes Mick, you know, that's funny, that scene. They they talk about it a lot in in this'cause they don't talk about it at all in America, but

Donald Sutherland5:53

But in um

Presenter5:54

Why not?

Donald Sutherland5:54

I don't know why not.

Presenter5:56

They were so memorable.

Donald Sutherland5:56

It had a yeah, but it was memorable because it reminded you of making love yourself. And and it gave you time to reflect. You you weren't voyeuristic. You it was very, very beautifully done.

Presenter6:09

It was beautiful, and it was, I think, the first explicit sex scene in a mainstream film. That's why for us it was so memorable.

Presenter6:16

But of course, just for the record, people said that it was so beautiful and so moving that it had to be you were doing it for real. You you weren't, were you?

Donald Sutherland6:26

I've got to tell you something. No way. It wasn't about that. It was to describe to you what it was really like in that room. You know, you've got two unblimped Aeroflex cameras which are making a dreadful noise. You've got everybody outside with earphones on. And Nick and Tony were there with the cameras and Julie and I were there naked. And I had in my contract that that there would be no frontal nudity. You couldn't see my sexual organ, because that's mine. It wasn't the characters. And I didn't want to.

Donald Sutherland6:58

have people kind of saying, Oh, look.

Donald Sutherland7:01

There's Donalds.

Donald Sutherland7:03

And so we followed Nick's directions, and they were very short increments of time. He would say, you know.

Donald Sutherland7:10

Donald, kissed Julie's shoulder. Move your head slowly down to her elbow. Julie, move your head back, arc your neck back. I mean, there was all the time it was this grinding noise of these cameras.

Donald Sutherland7:23

Tony Richmond laughing.

Presenter7:23

Yeah.

Presenter7:25

It did, as I say, make you, you know, into this film star that that women fell for, found incredibly attractive.

Speaker 17:30

Commit.

Presenter7:33

How was that for a man who, as I understand it, had actually been rather embarrassed about his appearance for so many years, certainly as a child was called goofy or dumbo'cause he had big ears. You know, all of a sudden he's kind of fancied the world over.

Donald Sutherland7:51

Oh, I wish somebody told me that then.

Presenter7:54

Yeah. And you you didn't know?

Donald Sutherland7:57

Wow, no, I still have the big ears, I'm afraid. What a what a what a wonderful idea. No, I'm afraid nobody told me then. That's a wonderful idea.

Presenter8:05

But people had told you, hadn't it? People had first of all they'd th th they they'd called you those nicknames early on, and people had told you that you looked odd, that you looked weird. You'd been turned down for some part because you looked weird, hadn't you?

Donald Sutherland8:16

Yeah, I d when I when I when I the first film I ever was was offered well, not offered, I went up for. I I did an audition for a film called Three in the Morning, and I I did a what I thought was a pretty good audition.

Donald Sutherland8:28

And they phoned me the next morning the director, the writer, and the producer, all three of them on a telephone.

Donald Sutherland8:35

To tell me that I had given them a wonderful audition and then that I had defined the character for the writer in a way that he was going to change some things that were so evocative, so clear, so precise. They were thrilled. And they were phoning me to explain to me, they said, why they weren't giving me the role. I was stunned. I sat down and I listened to them as they said, We've always felt that this was a kind of guy next door sort of character, and we.

Donald Sutherland9:05

Talk together and we don't feel like you look like you've ever lived next door to anybody.

Donald Sutherland9:10

And I had to live with this. I turned to my wife and said, I didn't get the job. What could I, you know?

Speaker 19:10

And I had a little bit of a

Presenter9:11

We won't. Yeah.

Presenter9:17

But it it as we say, knocked you for six for quite some time, didn't it?

Donald Sutherland9:20

Quite some time, didn't it? Yeah, it sure did.

Presenter9:22

Tell me about your second record.

Donald Sutherland9:24

No, that's about sex.

Donald Sutherland9:26

That's about making love.

Donald Sutherland9:29

It's Mozart, but it's um it's really Dennis Brain. Uh he died in um in a car accident here in England.

Donald Sutherland9:38

But in in any event it's a piece of music that just

Donald Sutherland9:42

is so sexually luxurious for me. I'm I'm anyway, it's Mozart's horn concerto.

Presenter10:39

Dennis Brain playing the opening of Mozart's horn concerto number one in D major K four one two with the Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Herbert von Karrian.

Presenter10:48

One of the fascinating things for me, Donald Sutherland, about your career is that it all began here in the UK, that you appeared in the fifties on television here in things like The Saint and The Avengers. I mean, you're kind of homegrown for us.

Donald Sutherland10:59

Yeah.

Donald Sutherland11:01

No, I I I started in uh in Canada, uh in the University of Toronto and uh I did some

Donald Sutherland11:08

repertory theatre there in in the summer and I came to go to school here in London.

Donald Sutherland11:14

and then uh left the school after a year and a half.

Presenter11:18

You had a bad time there, didn't you, Lambda?

Donald Sutherland11:19

Lambda. Yeah, he had a difficult time with one teacher, particularly, who's dead now.

Presenter11:20

Uh

Donald Sutherland11:24

who was who felt that my voice was didn't work for theater. She tried to raise my my voice an octave and um I couldn't speak for um

Donald Sutherland11:36

Three months after that. So so but so I left the school and I was given a job at the Perth Repertory Theatre and I went to work for David Stewart and Marjorie Dentz.

Presenter11:45

And you did these bits of television and stuff.

Donald Sutherland11:47

I d I didn't do them until sixty two. I bought I'd worked in the worked in the theater for a good two or three years before I finally got a job on television.

Presenter11:54

But tell me who you were. Why did this son of a Canadian school teacher and a salesman decide that there wasn't any theatre in your background? Why did you decide to come here and to go into the theatre? You know, I I I've read that you said I was in a play before I even saw one, so it wasn't as if you were, you know, it was in the family or you were destined for the theatre. How did you know?

Donald Sutherland12:15

I I I knew that I wanted to be a sculptor. I I drew a lot and I had dreams of sculpting. And

Donald Sutherland12:24

I went into the local candy shop to buy a jawbreaker or whatever the devil it was I bought.

Donald Sutherland12:29

and there was a charcoal drawing at the end.

Donald Sutherland12:33

Someone had done a drawing of Winston Churchill, which I thought was dreadful, and everybody was saying how wonderful it was, what a terrific piece of work. And I realized I literally I went home, I went it was in my head, it echoed in my head.

Speaker 112:42

Realize though.

Donald Sutherland12:47

I knew that what I wanted to do wouldn't receive the same kind of appreciation from people that that piece of work had received. And in my eleven year old head, even though I'd I'd hardly seen a movie and certainly there was no television,

Donald Sutherland13:03

I

Donald Sutherland13:04

somehow in the course of a year transferred all of that desire to be a sculptor to an a desire to be an actor.

Donald Sutherland13:11

And I it probably came as much from reading war stories to kids whose fathers were in prison camps in Japan and uh

Presenter13:20

So you liked the element of performance even then?

Donald Sutherland13:22

Yeah.

Presenter13:23

Although, again, by your own account, you were kind of a loner, weren't you? You were.

Donald Sutherland13:28

I was sick all the time. I was I spent a year in bed with rheumatic fever. I had polio, I had pneumonia, so I was alone a lot.

Presenter13:36

But you always had the deep round voice.

Donald Sutherland13:37

Yeah, that that one, yeah.

Presenter13:39

You were a D J too.

Donald Sutherland13:41

Yeah, well I know that was just a fluke. I ended up being in a radio station because I came in to apologize for something stupid that I'd done and uh he they just lost a radio announcer and they said

Donald Sutherland13:54

Will you read this? So I I read this piece of copy on flimsy yellow paper, and they said, Would you like to have a part-time job?

Donald Sutherland14:02

After school.

Donald Sutherland14:04

And I said, sure.

Presenter14:06

Record number three.

Donald Sutherland14:08

It's Patsy Klein. Sweet Dreams. It's uh it's where I come from. It's Nova Scotia. It's uh

Donald Sutherland14:15

She's our hero.

Speaker 314:17

We should hate you.

Speaker 314:21

The home.

Speaker 314:23

Nothing through.

Speaker 314:27

Instead of high sweet dreams

Speaker 314:32

How about you?

Speaker 314:44

Just call him

Presenter14:47

Patsy Klein and Sweet Dreams.

Presenter14:50

Undoubtedly, Donald Sutherland, the turning point in your career was when you got to speak in the Dirty Dozen and got yourself noticed. Was that a piece of pure luck?

Donald Sutherland15:00

I was I was one of six people.

Donald Sutherland15:03

who were given a role, a non-speaking role, in the dirty dozen. It was a terrific job. I was earning six hundred dollars a week and uh

Donald Sutherland15:11

Um it was wonderful for me.

Presenter15:14

So you were one of the six who didn't speak. Yeah.

Donald Sutherland15:15

But we were hired because we were Canadians in the event that we had to speak or we had to say something, yes, sir, or whatever. We said it with a North American accent. So we were there and we were sitting at this green bays table, a great big table that Bob Aldrich, the director, had put together with Telly Savalis and Lee Marvin and John Cassavettes and Clint Walker, who was a star at that time. And he was playing a character named Posey, and they were having readings. And then they came to this scene where

Donald Sutherland15:46

Clint Walker's character, Posey, had to pretend to be a general, and Clint interrupted and said, mister Aldrich, I I don't think it's appropriate.

Donald Sutherland15:56

For me as a

Donald Sutherland15:58

As a representative of a North American Indian people,

Donald Sutherland16:02

to play

Donald Sutherland16:03

This silly section.

Donald Sutherland16:06

And Aldrich didn't even look up. He just was.

Donald Sutherland16:10

Pointed his finger at me and said, You with the big ears, you do it. So the big ears came in handy'cause

Donald Sutherland16:17

Those handles got me noticed. And once again, I just did what he said.

Speaker 116:17

So the handle's got

Donald Sutherland16:23

And in the end, it stayed in the picture. And Bob Aldridge's agent, he phoned me and said, Bob asked me to phone you. He said, this is a.

Donald Sutherland16:31

A real good scene for you and you have a chance getting noticed, you have a chance to get some work in the United States if you come over.

Donald Sutherland16:39

I said, Well, I don't have any money.

Donald Sutherland16:42

So he said, Well, then maybe you should stay there. I thought, Heck, I'm not going to stay here and I ended up phoning Christopher Plummer, who was an extraordinary Canadian actor and I phoned Chris and asked him if I could borrow some money from he was in Stratford in Canada. And he said, Go down to my lawyer.

Donald Sutherland17:00

There'll be fifteen hundred dollars for you tomorrow morning. That was a fortune, you know, it was a fortune. It it was extraordinary. And Ingo Preminger's, who was the brother of Otto Preminger,

Donald Sutherland17:11

He had a picture that he because of that scene that he wanted me to do.

Donald Sutherland17:16

And he was the producer of MASH.

Presenter17:18

That was MASH. That was what did it.

Donald Sutherland17:19

Yeah.

Presenter17:21

Next piece of music.

Donald Sutherland17:22

Our next piece of m music is Chris, you know, Chris Plummer.

Donald Sutherland17:26

And Chris is a wonderful jazz pianist and

Donald Sutherland17:30

And whenever I hear Glen Gould, I think of Chris, and I think of Canada, and so it's the Goldberg variations that of Glen Gould, and it's Toronto, it's Cold Wind, it's everything.

Donald Sutherland18:47

The first C D um the compact disc that I ever bought in my life was that compact disc. And uh we were living in Paris. We we uh we've always lived there'cause Francine is is French Canadian and she wanted the kids to have French roots and

Donald Sutherland19:01

And I was in the little apartment that we had at the very beginning. And Rogue, my son, who's named after Nick Rogue.

Donald Sutherland19:10

He was taking piano lessons, and we had a little piano in the apartment.

Donald Sutherland19:15

And I was playing this C D.

Donald Sutherland19:19

And it but it was loud. You could hear it clearly through the apartment. And she had been out shopping and she came in the door and she heard it and she said, Rogue? Kiss her a thousand times.

Presenter19:29

That one

Presenter19:31

Oh, kiss her a thousand times.

Presenter19:33

It was Glenn Gould and he was playing then in Bach-Goldberg variation number thirteen, actually, for two pianos, and that was recorded in 1955.

Donald Sutherland19:41

But

Presenter19:41

I'm told, um, Donald, that you're a bit of a gambler, that you once won a Ferrari, is that right?

Donald Sutherland19:45

No, I won the money to buy a Ferrari. We were that was in Kelly's Heroes. We were th we had and don't uh Dirty Doesn't had a wonderful poker school too. Anyway, so I was in Kelly's Heroes making that picture and Saturday night for I bet it was for eighteen, twenty-four hours, we had this poker session.

Donald Sutherland20:03

I I probably took out of it.

Donald Sutherland20:06

maybe twenty five hundred dollars, whatever it was. I don't remember, but I just remember

Donald Sutherland20:10

The money that I had was all

Donald Sutherland20:13

in Italian lira, and it was in a brown paper bag, full, a brown paper bag full of Italian lira.

Donald Sutherland20:19

And I went into on my day off, I went into Bologna, and there was a shop with a second hand Ferrari in the window. And I went in and there were three guys sitting there, and I asked them in Italian how much was the car in the window, and they didn't even pay any attention to me.

Donald Sutherland20:37

And I showed them this bag of money and I drove the car back to Umagh.

Presenter20:45

So you like technology, you're a bit of a gambler, you've been very ill, as you say, on and off through your life, but you're also are you a bit of a hypochondriac?

Donald Sutherland20:54

I don't think I'm a hypochondriac. Why why why would you say that?

Presenter20:57

I dunno, I've I read somewhere that you always feared being ill or always thought you were ill, but maybe maybe you just have been ill.

Donald Sutherland21:02

No.

Donald Sutherland21:03

I've been ill a lot, but I'm the I'm I'm less of a hypoco I'm I I'm aware of symptoms and um but I I I've recovered from a bunch of disastrous diseases.

Presenter21:14

Absolutely. I mean, men spinal meningitis, I think, was the worst one, but you've had all these other things. But you're also a bit accident-prone, aren't you?

Donald Sutherland21:17

Yeah.

Donald Sutherland21:21

Well, I'm clumsy.

Presenter21:22

Yeah.

Donald Sutherland21:22

Yeah. Yeah, Jane Jane Fonda we we lived together for a couple of years and after we separated she would when someone said, you know, they'd seen me, she would say, What accident has he had? What's happened to him? What's she said I was pretty fragmented.

Donald Sutherland21:38

Uh

Presenter21:38

But it was a a good relationship, that one. Went on with the children.

Donald Sutherland21:38

But it was a

Donald Sutherland21:40

With Jane? Oh, that was wonderful. It was uh it was lovely.

Presenter21:46

Record number five.

Donald Sutherland21:48

It's the ballad of

Donald Sutherland21:50

John and Yoko.

Donald Sutherland21:52

I I love the sound of it. I love...

Donald Sutherland21:54

everything that he says in it and uh

Donald Sutherland21:57

And I and I s I've been here in this bed, on in that place, and uh it just makes me laugh.

Speaker 122:06

Uh

Speaker 322:06

May the light trip to me and

Speaker 322:10

Eating chocolate cake in the bag

Speaker 322:13

Favour said, she's gone to his head. They look just like two gurus and fast.

Speaker 122:22

You know how hard it can be

Speaker 122:26

Waiting for

Speaker 122:29

We call the cruising time.

Presenter22:33

The Beatles and the Ballad of John and Yoko. So Donald settled in 104 films or more.

Donald Sutherland22:38

What a terrible grabber, though. I mean, to hear John say, glad to have the both of you back. There's no such thing as the both of you.

Presenter22:45

It's a very English thing that the ball.

Donald Sutherland22:48

Oh, is it? Yeah.

Presenter22:50

Heated. Yeah.

Donald Sutherland22:50

But you were I interrupted you. You were talking about

Presenter22:53

Well, I wanted to ask you about your films, 104 of them. You've called it a horizontal career. What do you mean by horizontal career?

Donald Sutherland23:01

Big plate of fruit and vegetables and sweetmeats and chocolate and stuff. I was with Goldie Hahn and Ellen Burston in Cannes twenty years ago, and they were talking about their films. They were talking about six or seven films, and I had already made forty or something. And they were building them vertically. And I realized that my impulse to work was not nearly so arbitrary as that. It looked like one of those wonderfully carved wooden platters with a wonderful shiny apple and a pomegranate, whatever, everything.

Presenter23:38

Whatever, everything. But full of variation.

Donald Sutherland23:39

Very issue. You could take whatever you liked. You'd find this one you'd like and this one you wouldn't like. But

Presenter23:44

But I wonder if their arbitrary was arbitrary. Weren't they actually calculating their way vertically to the top, which might be to the Oscar, as it were, if that's perceived as the top?

Donald Sutherland23:54

Oh, maybe, I suppose. I don't know. That certainly was not my business. That was not what I was doing.

Presenter23:58

That was not what I was saying. That's what Peter. I mean, you are.

Donald Sutherland24:00

It'd be very surprising.

Presenter24:01

It is very surprising that you have not got an Oscar or indeed an Oscar nomination, and I think a lot of people feel it's very surprising. You are kind of notably not there. Why not? The theory that's put forward is that you have done this horizontal thing, that you haven't calculated and made yourself kind of

Presenter24:19

Given yourself commercial consistency, and that you've damaged yourself, therefore.

Donald Sutherland24:23

Well, my theory is always that there there were five other performances in it a year that I might have been offered a nomination that were better than mine, I think, is is more than accurate.

Presenter24:32

Well, all the theories are are flattering because the other one is of course that you're just too too generous and too selfless when you work. And I suppose the the biggest example of that is

Donald Sutherland24:40

That's absolutely true.

Presenter24:41

Of course it is. And I think Jane Fonder would agree because of course she got the Oscar in include but not least again because you were such a marvellous support. You let her shine.

Donald Sutherland24:44

Because of course she got

Presenter24:52

Or perhaps you were a bit in love with her even though.

Donald Sutherland24:53

Oh, we were so in love. We were living together then. We were we were we had a wonderful time.

Presenter24:59

Next record.

Donald Sutherland25:00

Oh, there's Dave Brubeck. Dave Brubeck and take five. When when I was working here, just after I left Perth.

Donald Sutherland25:09

I I danced. I loved to dance. And Dave Bruback is hard to dance too'cause it's uh

Donald Sutherland25:15

It it's five time, but uh I remember walking in my shoes and carrying these special sneakers. And when I get in there, I put on the sneakers and then I go up and I take this record of Dave Rubick's take five.

Speaker 125:42

Don't forget, we can't tell you

Presenter25:57

Dave Brubeck and Take Five. So back on the stage at Donald Sutherland, first time in nineteen years that you've trodden the boards. Surely, surely there's something much more powerful about it, about being in contact with that audience than there is about making films, of feeling them, of being inspired by them.

Donald Sutherland26:18

Oh, no, no, no, no there's nothing like the look of a director who's standing beside the camera creating his film. Oh gosh, there's nothing like it

Presenter26:30

But it's almost as if you you like the process of the acting, but you don't want to have too much to do with the result. That's somebody else's responsibility, that's his.

Donald Sutherland26:38

Oh no, that's just a reality.

Presenter26:40

But you don't even go to see some of your films, do you?

Donald Sutherland26:41

Uh

Donald Sutherland26:43

Well, because I give this guy a thousand pieces of information and then he puts a character together of seven hundred and fifty, and it's different from the character that's sitting inside me, and I go into the movie theater myself I could take anything, but the character inside me who's made up of a thousand pieces goes nuts.

Presenter27:00

But why don't you want to see what he's done with it?

Donald Sutherland27:01

Drags me out of the cinnaban.

Donald Sutherland27:04

But I I I can a little later, but the character that was in me has to die first. I'm okay now. I'm fine. Um Kiefer told me when um

Presenter27:13

Your son gave us a sense of the money.

Donald Sutherland27:14

Six degrees of separation. He said you should go see this. And he was right. And I could see it. And Fritz Kepse had done a uh a job that really echoed what I had felt about this.

Presenter27:28

But I return to my point that when you're on the stage, frankly, whatever the director has taken you through beforehand, it's yours. You've got the audience in the palm of your hand. You can do it.

Donald Sutherland27:39

Don't tell the director that. I know that.

Presenter27:39

Don't tell us.

Presenter27:41

But surely that's much more satisfying.

Donald Sutherland27:42

Much more

Donald Sutherland27:43

Uh

Donald Sutherland27:45

Well, not really. No, it's it's it's very satisfying. And it's lovely. I I get a a thrill each night at the Savoy when the and the audience has been so

Presenter27:59

But there you are. You make my point. That you're getting deeper and deeper. It becomes more and more yours and only yours.

Donald Sutherland28:05

That's true.

Presenter28:05

I rest my case.

Donald Sutherland28:07

Your case has okay.

Presenter28:08

Yeah.

Donald Sutherland28:08

Yeah.

Presenter28:08

Yeah.

Donald Sutherland28:08

Yeah.

Presenter28:08

Uh

Donald Sutherland28:08

Mm-hmm.

Presenter28:09

Uh, record number seven, isn't it?

Donald Sutherland28:11

This song what one, I know the words so I can sing along and two I loved so much of what Janice was. Uh anyway, it's called uh Me and Bobby Magee.

Speaker 128:24

La la la la la

Speaker 128:26

La na na na na.

Speaker 128:28

La da da da da da baby.

Speaker 128:37

La la la la la la la la la

Speaker 128:40

Hey, no bomb below me, yeah

Speaker 128:43

La la la la la la la la la la la la la, la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la

Presenter28:52

Janice Joplin singing Me and Bobby Magee. Can you imagine yourself as as a kind of Robinson Crusoe then, Donald? Are you practical, organizational?

Donald Sutherland29:00

Very, very practical yes.

Presenter29:01

Self-reliant.

Donald Sutherland29:02

You you uh yeah, I would be very practical.

Presenter29:05

And you're very disciplined, I understand, if you decide to do something, you know, like give up smoking.

Presenter29:11

That's what you do. You will you can you're very single-minded.

Donald Sutherland29:12

Yeah.

Donald Sutherland29:14

Yep. Then I will wait for a frog person to come. No, no, but what am I allowed to do in this desert island? Can I build anything?

Presenter29:22

Yes, I mean as long as you make it from, you know, whatever presents itself there.

Donald Sutherland29:26

Yeah.

Presenter29:26

Yeah.

Donald Sutherland29:27

Would there be any charcoal there?

Presenter29:29

Possibly.

Donald Sutherland29:30

Yeah.

Presenter29:30

Or you could make some, you know, you can rub some sticks together and do all those things.

Donald Sutherland29:32

Some statements.

Presenter29:34

And what about w you know, because you have a lot of time to kind of mull it all over, look back across it all in far greater depth than we've we've done here this morning. But um if you could rewrite a bit of it, your professional history, w would you change anything?

Donald Sutherland29:51

You know something, I'd probably actually have to be there to figure out what I would change instead of talking about it here. But I chose a book called The Distant Mirror that Barbara Tuchman wrote about the 14th century. And combined with the Bible and the works of Shakespeare, which I'm allowed to take, yes, I think I would have everything that I need.

Presenter30:11

Chat

Donald Sutherland30:15

In the because of fourteenth century

Donald Sutherland30:18

echoes the 20th century. And then Angeranda Kussi, who is the the kind of character that she she follows through the 14th century, everything that happens to them, and everything that they ate, everything that they did and wore, all of that echoes backwards and forwards, back to the Bible, back uh forwards to where we are. So I would I would be so full of thought about that.

Donald Sutherland30:41

And I I you know, I'm sure early in the evening I would do some introspection, but less so than I imagined.

Donald Sutherland30:49

One might imagine that I would do.

Presenter30:52

Tell me about your last record.

Donald Sutherland30:53

My wife told me to take this one. Deandafriend is a dear friend. She's a blood sister of my dearly beloved wife. Um and my wife said to me, You have to take this record because uh

Donald Sutherland31:12

This will tell you everything you need to know.

Donald Sutherland31:15

And and the record is called Le Rencontre l'homme de ma vie.

Donald Sutherland31:20

In other words, she's telling me that she found the man of her life, and even if I'm there, she's waiting for me somewhere.

Speaker 331:28

Oh Julie.

Speaker 131:31

Cheist on Jo D.

Donald Sutherland31:38

Oh love

Speaker 131:43

Bougain Celebrate

Speaker 131:46

On blind.

Speaker 131:49

Bon la tent le maima fou.

Speaker 131:55

Yeah. Yeah. What am I gonna

Presenter31:59

Diane Dufran singing Jei encontre l'homme de mavie, and that's you. If um you could only take one of those records, Donald, which one would you take?

Donald Sutherland32:08

Well, I'm I'm going to take the dentist brain, uh the Mozart, because because I I I know that my wife said to take that one, but but but uh my wife is walking through that m the Mozart horn concerto with wet hair and with a white towel around her rear end and she's turning around and she's laughing and she's doing her toenails. No, I take the I take the the Mozart.

Presenter32:35

The Horn Concerto. Um your book, you've told us is The The Distant Mirror by Barbara Tuchman. What about your luxury?

Donald Sutherland32:36

And

Donald Sutherland32:42

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Donald Sutherland32:45

I can have a luxury, and I can have whatever I want.

Presenter32:47

It ha can't be of practical value. I mean, it has to be, you know, luxurious.

Donald Sutherland32:53

Oh, this is luxurious. I want a hundred cases of red bordeaux.

Presenter32:54

This is a luxury.

Donald Sutherland32:58

I want 1982, 1986. I want things like Mouton Rothschild, I want Lafitte.

Donald Sutherland33:07

Um

Presenter33:07

And you want a corkscrew?

Donald Sutherland33:09

I want a corkscrew, yes. And I guess probably'cause they're wooden cases I would need something to open the wooden cases. But if I'm there long enough, I can grow my fingernails long enough.

Presenter33:15

Uh

Donald Sutherland33:19

But uh I won't build anything with the boxes.

Presenter33:22

Goodo. You got the rules right. Donald Sutherland, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island is.

Donald Sutherland33:27

Can I tell you something?

Donald Sutherland33:29

I never dreamt I would be able to do this program. I used to listen to this program.

Donald Sutherland33:34

Forty years ago. I loved this program. I'm so happy to have been here.

Speaker 333:47

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co. uk slash radio four.