Kathleen Turner

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in the year two thousand, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:31

My Cosway this week is an actress. It was just over twenty years ago that she was happily pursuing her career off Broadway and in American television soap when she landed the lead in a Hollywood hit. It was called Body Heat, and the character she played, sexy and ruthless, made her a star. She followed it up with other glamorous roles in films such as Pritz's Honour, Romancing the Stone, and The War of the Roses. Then illness stopped her in her tracks. Rheumatoid arthritis brought constant pain and immobility. Today she's recovered and she's back in the limelight, this time in London's West End, playing the seductive Mrs. Robinson in the play of the film The Graduate. In it she appears naked. A brave decision, some say, for a woman in her mid-forties, but she has no qualms about it. There's a definitive look for women, she says, which is practically fleshless. Women aren't like that, so I thought I'd do my little bit for us. She is Kathleen Turner. Kathleen, you've done it. It's a great moment, but I can't believe you did it without a qualm. It's one thing to decide to do it without a quality quality. No, actually that's not.

Kathleen Turner1:25

Kathleen Turner.

Kathleen Turner1:31

Decide to do it, but I'm not sure. The director and writer, Terry Johnson, left it to me, and it just was so clear to me that not doing it would have been more obtrusive and more stopping of the play, a real that would kick us out of the reality, whereas doing it would then propel the whole play. It's quite a moment, absolutely.

Presenter1:56

Quite a moment absent.

Kathleen Turner1:58

And I just gritted my teeth and thought, All right, I can do this. The funny thing was, in the beginning, Terry said to me, You know, there's a

Kathleen Turner2:08

There's an extra beat. He says, you know, you you come out with a towel and you close the door to the bedroom and then you turn and then there's this extra beat I don't quite understand before you drop a towel. He says, Is that a choice? I said, No, no, it's not a choice. I'm trying to drop the towel.

Presenter2:22

And does it go on being that difficult or does it has it got easier?

Kathleen Turner2:24

No, it's gotten easier. It's gotten a little easier though. I still love to hear the gasps and stuff, especially matinees.

Presenter2:30

Suits

Kathleen Turner2:33

Hey uh Yeah.

Presenter2:34

But you've done it obviously quite a lot on film. This is more or less the first time, I think, in the theatre. Oh, totally.

Kathleen Turner2:37

Or less than

Kathleen Turner2:39

Oh, Toe completely first time, yeah.

Presenter2:41

It must be a very different experience. It's so different.

Kathleen Turner2:42

It's so different. It's so public, it's so unprotected. It's uh

Kathleen Turner2:48

I on film, when you do any kind of nudity or sexual activity or something, you it's so choreographed, you know exactly what the camera's going to see, and specifically, you know, this shoulder or that breast or this hand on the thigh or whatever.

Kathleen Turner3:04

And you have the crew down to a bare minimum only who has to be in that room with you and

Kathleen Turner3:10

Everyone is is is terribly

Kathleen Turner3:13

Professional and terrible, you know, and you may do take after take after take, but again, it's so planned that you feel quite protected. It's not nothing else is going to happen. Nothing else. Quite frankly, I mean, if you've got if you know you're doing a film and you have this lovemaking scene coming up, say you can go on a crash diet for a week or something, you know, and that day you can just feel as thin as you can possibly feel. This is eight shows a week. We have to feel this way every day.

Presenter3:24

There are

Speaker 13:24

Frankly

Kathleen Turner3:42

So I'm not eating much.

Presenter3:44

But obviously, you can cope with it. What about when you did first do it on film, as I say, more than 20 years ago, Body Heat?

Kathleen Turner3:50

Yeah.

Kathleen Turner3:51

According here.

Presenter3:52

I've read stories that you actually wept in the dressing room.

Kathleen Turner3:55

Oh, I did. I did. I did. I'll I'll never well, Larry, I'll never forget Larry Kasten, who wrote and directed Body Heat.

Presenter3:57

Why?

Kathleen Turner4:01

Decided that we should start the filming, start the whole film.

Kathleen Turner4:06

with the only entirely nude scene in the boathouse.

Kathleen Turner4:10

So here we were, Bill and I, standing in our robes in the boathouse, shaking hands and meeting the crew.

Kathleen Turner4:18

And we'd been rehearsing for some weeks together, but we had not met, you know, our cameramen and the lighting guys and all this stuff, who just sort of all marched in and we proceeded to

Kathleen Turner4:28

to do the most revealing scene in the whole film.

Kathleen Turner4:32

Well, I was shaking like a leaf. I was so and and Bill just marched me right up to the the house where we had our dressing rooms, you know, and marched me right into his and opened a bottle of wine and said, You gonna drink that? I said, No, I'm not and he said, Oh, yes, you are.

Presenter4:46

Okay, you can be as naked as you like forever on this desert island. I mean, nobody's going to see you, no problems. Thank God I can, well.

Kathleen Turner4:53

But I

Kathleen Turner4:55

Tell me about the music you want to play. What's your first choice? This is a Nancy Griffith song that she does with James Hooker called Gulf Coast Highway, which to me is very American and very lyrical. I love the refrain.

Speaker 25:10

We dive, we say we'll catch some blackbirds wing

Speaker 25:16

We will fly away to heaven.

Speaker 25:19

Sometimes we blue burning spray

Speaker 25:25

Yes, when we die we say we'll catch some blackbirds

Speaker 25:31

We'll fly away together Come some sweet blue bonnet spring

Presenter5:39

Nancy Griffith and James Hooker singing Gulf Coast Highway. Body Heat was the first big break, as we say. You'd done you were playing off Broadway, you were playing in television. So how did you find them? How did they find you?

Kathleen Turner5:51

Well, I had actually I had done Broadway also by then and then I and at the same time I was on I was on Broadway I was doing a soap opera for NBC and uh the character was so incredibly stupid I I finally just said to the writers, Make her a drunk You know, I mean I can't possibly justify these words, these actions, unless the woman is blind drunk. You know, who's gonna believe this? So anyway, so I managed to talk my way off the soap opera out of my contract.

Kathleen Turner6:20

And uh came back to New York and Larry Kazan was in town.

Kathleen Turner6:25

Auditioning women for the role of Maddie Walker in in Body Heat.

Kathleen Turner6:30

Now he had two male casting directors.

Kathleen Turner6:34

who I think I had probably offended at some point by saying, Well, what do you want? you know, tell me and I will do it.

Kathleen Turner6:41

So they were quite reluctant, in fact they refused to allow me to be seen for the role.

Kathleen Turner6:47

And they said I had no film, which is quite true. I'd never been on film.

Kathleen Turner6:52

And so there was no point in wasting Mr. Casden's time, etc. etc. So.

Speaker 16:55

Uh

Kathleen Turner6:56

About three months later, a female casting director,

Kathleen Turner7:00

flew me out to Los Angeles to audition for a different film and she said, Oh, you've got to read for Larry, you know. Um she said he they've they've seen five hundred women, it's been for the last three months and they've not they haven't cast the role.

Kathleen Turner7:16

So she got me in to read for Larry.

Presenter7:18

And did he did he know immediately, Soyuz?

Kathleen Turner7:20

He called me back the next day and handed me a scene

Kathleen Turner7:24

And said, I just want a cold reading. I just want to see exactly what you do. And at this point, I was so.

Kathleen Turner7:32

Over the time, I mean, I was so out of my depth, frankly, I didn't know what the hell was going to hell with this. I'm going to lie down on the couch and I'm just going to read this.

Kathleen Turner7:40

And I finished, and Larry turned and he said, I never thought I'd hear that exactly as I hear it in my head.

Kathleen Turner7:48

I thought, ooh, this is good and then I had to wait for two weeks to find

Presenter7:52

Out.

Kathleen Turner7:52

Uh

Presenter7:52

Uh

Kathleen Turner7:52

Ah!

Presenter7:53

Uh

Kathleen Turner7:53

I fell a d-

Presenter7:53

It's also the voice. I mean the v uh the voice has always been like that, huh? It's it's it's not sort of ten years of nicotine.

Kathleen Turner8:01

Oh, no, always. No, as I as I I like to say and it's true, they put me in a boys' choir when I was I had to sing with the boys' section in in church. I wasn't allowed to sing with the girls'cause I was too uh

Presenter8:12

So then you made the film, but even after that, because then it goes into the edit for so long, you went back. You were waitressing, I think. Oh, yeah.

Kathleen Turner8:18

Oh yeah. Oh absolutely. They they they paid me almost nothing for the film, which I don't care. I mean I would have paid them, but I had to keep an apartment in New York, my home, and I had to rent a place out in LA while I was working, and that was the entire salary. But then it all happened. Yes. And and then there came the raft, the flood of body heat rip-off type scripts.

Presenter8:39

That is the problem in immediately. People are so unimaginative, aren't they? You're immediately typecast.

Kathleen Turner8:42

Imaginative, weren't they? You're the type class. Yeah. It's not just the animat it's lack of a they want the sure things, they want the safe things. And if this did well, then doing it again must also do well, which of course is complete nonsense.

Presenter8:54

You did do a sequel to Romancing the Stone that you did a bit later on with my Jew of the Nile, wasn't it?

Kathleen Turner8:56

Yeah.

Kathleen Turner8:57

Oh, absolutely, Jeff.

Kathleen Turner9:00

Jewel of Anaya, yes, I had agreed to do a s a f a sequel to those to that character of Joan Wilder, but of course we got into a great

Presenter9:01

As I

Kathleen Turner9:08

They sued me for twenty-five million dollars because you didn't

Presenter9:11

Because you didn't want to do it.

Kathleen Turner9:12

Well, I refused to do the script that they gave me for the sequel. I said that yes, I had agreed to do a sequel, but I had not agreed to lower my standards. And frankly, the second s the script that they gave me was nowhere near the quality of the first film.

Presenter9:26

Ran quite fast, then. Uh

Kathleen Turner9:29

Well no, it's just

Kathleen Turner9:31

I have always believed, frankly, that I always have the right that you are as known for what you do not do as for what you do. And I am I am too intelligent, frankly, that to ever starve. So I the greatest power and right I have is to say no and not to be compromised in my choice of work.

Presenter9:51

Obviously you're a very you're your own woman, Kathleen Turner. That's what comes over in all of this, huh?

Kathleen Turner9:53

PN ten

Kathleen Turner9:56

Yes, I do choose my own.

Presenter9:57

Stubborn. Okay.

Kathleen Turner9:59

I did. Pig head, yes, indeed. But usually, right, may I add. Of course. Yes. Second record.

Presenter10:00

Deem by you

Kathleen Turner10:04

Ah, well, now, this is one Billy Joel and say goodbye to Hollywood, which is very much how I feel about it.

Speaker 210:15

Multiply the dead

Speaker 210:19

Say goodbye to Hollywood Uh

Speaker 210:22

Say goodbye, my baby.

Speaker 210:26

Say goodbye to Pony

Speaker 110:28

Yeah.

Speaker 210:30

Say goodbye, mommy.

Presenter10:33

Billy Joe and say goodbye to Hollywood. Appearing in the West End was apparently um the fulfilment of a dream for you because you spent a lot of your teenage years here.

Kathleen Turner10:39

Oh yes.

Kathleen Turner10:42

I spent my high school years here in London at the American School in London.

Presenter10:46

Why how come?

Kathleen Turner10:46

My father was a diplomat. He was with the Foreign Service. He was consul and posted here, luckily, to London. We'd been in Venezuela for five years previous to that in Caracas.

Presenter10:59

And did you therefore go to the theatre here? And you went to the West End and thought that's what I want to do.

Kathleen Turner11:02

Oh, the first night we were here we we

Kathleen Turner11:05

went together as a family down to this theater and I saw Mame.

Kathleen Turner11:09

And I remember thinking

Kathleen Turner11:11

Oh.

Kathleen Turner11:12

That you could earn a living at this. We had no money, my family, you know, and there was no doubt that we would all m have to support ourselves and have our own careers. But I didn't know, you know, what my career would be. I mean, this is what I wanted, but I hadn't realized that it was a real profession. But your father was set against it, wasn't he? He was not anxious for me to do this.

Kathleen Turner11:33

First of all, I think he f disapproved of it in general, that it was licentious and heaven knows what kind of lifestyle, etcetera. He was right. And he was well, yeah, in some ways, quite right. Um and then it was so insecure.

Speaker 111:41

And he

Presenter11:41

Uh

Kathleen Turner11:47

you know, that he was terrified.

Presenter11:49

Did he actually forbid it?

Presenter11:52

Did you have all the trees?

Kathleen Turner11:52

He tried. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. We had marvellous arguments, which was

Kathleen Turner11:57

Terribly sad because we just we had a huge, glorious argument and I stormed off the only time I ever ran away from home stormed off to Stratford, of course.

Kathleen Turner12:08

and uh came home and he had died.

Presenter12:11

Really?

Kathleen Turner12:11

Yeah.

Presenter12:12

That must have hit you hard.

Kathleen Turner12:14

Well, I was seventeen.

Kathleen Turner12:16

This

Presenter12:16

Actually, this is part of the reason behind this next piece of music, isn't it? It is. Tell me about this.

Kathleen Turner12:19

Yes, it is.

Kathleen Turner12:22

Well, my cause of my father's death, we had to leave England and leave the world, in fact. You know. We we went to my mother's parents, who lived in Springfield, Missouri, which is the center, the heart of America.

Kathleen Turner12:37

And it was the furthest it was the most cultural shock I'd ever had in my entire life. I can cope with other languages, I can cope with other cultures. My own I had not lived in for so long, and I had never been exposed to the Midwest. So I had this record, the Tchaikovsky.

Kathleen Turner12:54

First piano concerto in B flat minor. And I I was staying in a dorm at the Southwest Missouri State University.

Kathleen Turner13:03

And I would come back from my classes, lock the door, and put this on, and think there was more to the world and more to my life than I had at present.

Presenter14:10

Vladimir Ashkenazi playing part of Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. one in B flat minor, with the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Uri Segau.

Presenter14:18

So there you were at um Southwest Missouri State University in an all-girls dorm and you didn't fit.

Kathleen Turner14:22

Danny.

Kathleen Turner14:24

Oh, gosh, no, not at all. First of all

Kathleen Turner14:28

My mother has a lovely voice, also low. My sister doesn't speak much. I have never lived with a whole building full of shrill

Kathleen Turner14:37

hard accented voices, g women's voices, it was driving me mad. And then they had this lovely little custom where they had these sort of, um

Kathleen Turner14:46

chalkboards or or voice to write on that was left on the door, so somebody would come by and leave you a message or a Bible passage or an advertising slogan. A big favorite at that time was Today is the first day of the rest of your life, you know.

Kathleen Turner15:01

And uh so one day I was so I was so fed up that I wrote on the door I wrote, It is better to reign in hell than serve in heaven and I went off to the theater, you know, and I got back that night and there was a hall all the girls were gathered in the hallway and the elevator door was open and I walked out and they said, We must discuss this. We have to ask you to erase that blasphemous message from our hallways.

Kathleen Turner15:25

Well, that's it, I'm out of here.

Presenter15:26

But you escaped. You escaped.

Kathleen Turner15:28

I did. I got out.

Presenter15:29

You escaped to Manhattan. And Manhattan is where home is now, is.

Kathleen Turner15:32

Always. Always been my home. I've never tried to live in Los Angeles, but I've never wanted to.

Presenter15:34

I've

Kathleen Turner15:39

Um I'm a city girl, always have been. I need to go to the bathroom.

Presenter15:41

At least they want you enough out there they'll fly you out, I mean.

Kathleen Turner15:44

I think that that that's half the battle. I don't want to be that available. They have to they have to have to pay to fly me out, or they have to pay to fly themselves to New York, and either way I get them something out of it.

Presenter15:53

There's a joke that you and your husband are are Manhattan's only surviving married couple.

Kathleen Turner15:57

We went to this opening. We went to this opening and we.

Presenter15:59

Last time.

Kathleen Turner16:02

We wasn't far from our house, actually, so we just thought well we'll just walk over and not fuss with the car or any of this nonsense. So the press saw us coming down the block, you know, and there's and I hear this guy yell to the others, Here I come It's the last couple

Kathleen Turner16:18

And I look around and I'm like, They mean us?

Kathleen Turner16:22

We're the last couple. How are they gonna get married?

Presenter16:23

How long have you been married? Yeah.

Kathleen Turner16:24

Yeah. Be seventeen years. Where's that?

Presenter16:26

Uh

Presenter16:27

And how did you meet? Here we go. Here's the next piece of music.

Kathleen Turner16:30

Oh, all right.

Kathleen Turner16:32

Well, my husband was uh had uh real estate developer and all this stuff and oh, evidently owned all these buildings and things like that. And I'd come back

Kathleen Turner16:41

from romancing the stone, and I'd realized I was living as I had as a student, and it was time that I actually spent some of the money and got a nice place to live in a home.

Kathleen Turner16:51

So a friend who knew Jay, Jay Weiss, my husband, asked if he would help me find a nice place, and he said, I don't do that.

Kathleen Turner16:59

I don't rent apartments. And he said it was for Kathleen Turner and he said so.

Kathleen Turner17:04

Anyway, so he gave her a list of buildings, and I went and looked at them. I didn't like any of them.

Kathleen Turner17:09

So then I became a personal challenge.

Kathleen Turner17:11

So he said he was going to take me personally to go look at the next batch of apartments. So he picked me up in his car, and this song, Avalon, by Roxy Music, was on the radio, and I said, Oh

Kathleen Turner17:23

You know, Avalon, he said, you know it?

Kathleen Turner17:26

And anyway, so we met at one o'clock and he left at 4:30 that morning.

Kathleen Turner17:34

Every movement.

Kathleen Turner17:37

And your dist

Kathleen Turner17:41

You don't know who

Kathleen Turner17:49

I've alone.

Presenter17:59

Roxy Music and Avalon. So Life was Good, Kathleen. He was the successful property developer, you the much sought after movie star.

Kathleen Turner18:03

Uh

Kathleen Turner18:07

Oh yes.

Presenter18:08

You had a baby and that's Rachel who's now twelve.

Kathleen Turner18:10

Twelve years.

Presenter18:11

But um when she was just four years old, everything was going very well until one day you couldn't get your shoes on. Tell me what happened.

Kathleen Turner18:20

Well, I was doing Serial Mom, I was shooting Serial Mom, and I seemed to be.

Kathleen Turner18:25

swelling and I didn't know why and and suddenly my

Kathleen Turner18:29

My shoes that I think at that time were like a size seven and a half, something lovely and petite like that from my height. I was very vain about it. Um, were completely impossible. And of course I

Kathleen Turner18:41

I was running around and I didn't know what to do. So I got back to New York and I went to

Kathleen Turner18:47

the head of podiatry or something at one of the New York University hospitals and uh he took X rays and everything and said he had no explanation I should simply buy bigger shoes.

Kathleen Turner18:58

And then a month or so after that, my left arm wouldn't move, couldn't open or move my left arm. So I went.

Speaker 219:05

Frightening.

Kathleen Turner19:06

I went to a sports doctor who does all the Mets, the pitchers and the basketball players and everything and all the you know, joint expert and

Kathleen Turner19:15

He took x-rays and MRIs and then suggested exploratory surgery because he couldn't find anything. I thought, well.

Kathleen Turner19:22

I don't think so. And then about a month or so after that

Kathleen Turner19:25

I my neck froze. I could not turn my head. And

Kathleen Turner19:30

I was feeling so sick and so.

Kathleen Turner19:33

So much pain.

Kathleen Turner19:35

I finally went to my G P and said I I really

Kathleen Turner19:39

Don't tell Jay, but I really think that I'm dying and and and you've got to find out what it is.

Kathleen Turner19:45

And he is the first one who took blood.

Kathleen Turner19:47

And most people have a rheumatoid factor to some extent, maybe up to as much as sixty or something. And mine was sixteen hundred. But you went through a terrible period. At first start it's terribly painful.

Presenter19:56

Yeah.

Kathleen Turner19:57

It's rheumatoid arthritis. It's chronic, chronic, endless pain, and it's not the kind of pain that you can.

Presenter19:57

Yeah.

Kathleen Turner20:03

Get away from by sitting down or by putting your feet up or by lying down because it's inside your joints.

Kathleen Turner20:10

W one posture to another may be a little helpful, but it doesn't stop at pace.

Presenter20:14

They're just inflamed, all of them. How did you cope? I mean, your little daughter too.

Kathleen Turner20:16

How did you

Kathleen Turner20:19

Well

Kathleen Turner20:21

Jay, my husband, was very supportive, and for a long time we tried. Well, we did, we hid it.

Kathleen Turner20:27

Very much, but

Kathleen Turner20:29

You have to understand that this whole area of autoimmune diseases is only in the last five years has medicine really truly made great discoveries and strides in it. And as much as seven years ago or eight years ago when this started for me,

Kathleen Turner20:44

They were using the same treatments that they've been using in the nineteen hundreds, other than the addition of steroids, thank you very much. I could not move without them. I literally could not walk without the steroids.

Kathleen Turner20:58

But what the damage that they do to your body and to your parents and to your mind, because they create great rage and great depression at the same time.

Presenter21:06

They blew you up, didn't they?

Kathleen Turner21:07

Oh.

Presenter21:09

Oh, yeah. And of course, all those press photographs appeared of you. That's that's.

Kathleen Turner21:12

Oh yes, there was great speculation, I think, as if I become a drunk or something like this. And of course

Presenter21:18

I'm just

Kathleen Turner21:18

I'm just trying to walk here, you know.

Presenter21:20

Why didn't you tell them the truth when we were in the middle of the morning?

Kathleen Turner21:20

But

Kathleen Turner21:22

Because you won't be hired if you're sick.

Kathleen Turner21:25

They'll hire you if you're drunk.

Kathleen Turner21:27

They hire you look at the history of actors and and Hollywood and everything, they'll hire you over and over again.

Kathleen Turner21:33

But if you're sick No, I don't think so.

Kathleen Turner21:35

So we felt best not to not to allow anyone to know.

Presenter21:40

Let's pause there for your next piece of music. It's record number five. What's that?

Kathleen Turner21:44

This is John and Vangelis with um

Kathleen Turner21:47

The song Find My Way Home, I think it's from the album Mr. Cairo song.

Kathleen Turner21:52

This was um for my wedding. I'll never forget it was a Saturday night.

Kathleen Turner21:58

And we had s said, you know, we'd start the ceremony at like seven or something. It was in August. And I w I was

Kathleen Turner22:06

I'm crazy about time. I cannot be late if to save my life it drives me insane.

Kathleen Turner22:11

So it's seven o'clock, and I'm pacing like a mad woman, and I send the best man down to drag the rabbi up and say, Let's get this going, let's get this going.

Kathleen Turner22:19

And he says, Please, please, I'm marrying a Shiksah to a nice Jewish boy. Let the sun go down.

Speaker 122:25

Friend is close by your side Uh

Presenter22:31

Uh

Speaker 222:31

And speaks in foreign tongues.

Speaker 222:36

A season's wish will come true.

Speaker 122:39

Uh

Speaker 122:42

All seasons begin with you.

Presenter22:48

John and Van Gellis with Find My Way Home. So, how did you get through it, Kathleen? How come you're now able to walk, move, act again?

Kathleen Turner22:55

Sale Johnson, who's Woody Johnson's wife of Johnson and Johnson.

Kathleen Turner23:00

Their daughter Daisy goes is in the same class as my daughter Rachel.

Kathleen Turner23:04

and I was coming to the school to a parents' meeting.

Kathleen Turner23:08

one night and I had to get up three steps and I couldn't do it. And I was sort of hanging on the railing with tears running down my face and Sale said, What in the world is wrong with you? and I said I am

Kathleen Turner23:20

rheumatoid arthritis and I cannot get up these stairs and

Kathleen Turner23:24

She said, Well, my my our middle child has.

Kathleen Turner23:27

juvenile rheumatoid arthritis and we have funded this whole research program and you are going there tomorrow.

Kathleen Turner23:34

And she got me into this doctor.

Kathleen Turner23:36

who was able to make an exception as a compassionate need or some such thing to allow me into his program and start me on

Kathleen Turner23:45

some some drugs that really could work.

Kathleen Turner23:50

And, unlike almost every other doctor I'd spoken to, he said, get into a pool.

Kathleen Turner23:55

Every day, as long as you can stand it, just keep moving, keep moving, keep moving.

Presenter23:59

'Cause everybody else had sent you to bed.

Kathleen Turner24:01

Yeah.

Presenter24:01

Uh

Kathleen Turner24:02

Yeah, which of course is the worst thing because your joints then the sed rate increases and you have a sediment factory in your joints and then everything to flush it to keep it moving and to keep a muscle strong enough to take the stress off a joint.

Presenter24:14

Is the pain gone now?

Kathleen Turner24:15

This is imperative.

Kathleen Turner24:17

The pain is almost gone. There is a const there is always and there will always be some pain, but it's nothing, absolutely nothing compared to what it was.

Presenter24:26

But it truly tested that that stubbornness, that determination.

Kathleen Turner24:30

Oh, they told me five years ago that I would not act any more, that I would be in a wheelchair the rest of my life.

Presenter24:30

Oh, they

Kathleen Turner24:36

And I said you're

Kathleen Turner24:38

You're wrong. You're just wrong. You know, I have no other alternative. I will not do that.

Kathleen Turner24:45

I could number six.

Kathleen Turner24:49

Dar Williams. As cool as I am. This is a young a young woman who's just doing some great music and she's a mixture between folk and rock and

Kathleen Turner24:59

She's sassy and she's smart.

Kathleen Turner25:03

And I like this song.

Speaker 225:05

As long as she's got noise, she's fine.

Speaker 225:08

But I could teach her how I learned to dance when the music's ended.

Speaker 225:20

And desire my thought you know this already

Speaker 125:20

Say it.

Speaker 225:24

I will not be afraid of women. I will not be afraid of women.

Presenter25:33

Dar Williams and as cool as I am, or I will not be afraid of women. Your possibly your most famous leading man, well, I don't know, but certainly one of your big leading men, Michael Douglas from Romancing the Stone War, The Rosie, and Son, has very publicly found a new leading lady in Catholic Zeda Jones.

Kathleen Turner25:48

Proceeded.

Presenter25:50

I find it very difficult to believe the stories that that you really mind that she might star in a sequel to

Kathleen Turner25:54

Star in a sequel to

Presenter25:56

Yeah.

Kathleen Turner25:56

No, that completely I can happily say was a complete fabrication by the British press.

Kathleen Turner26:02

I saw Michael last week he came to the play.

Kathleen Turner26:05

And we had dinner afterwards, and I told him, frankly, that if he did romancing the story, I mean the characters again as John, then Catherine will have to play our daughter. However, he did not think that was so funny. Anyway, I did.

Presenter26:19

In the meantime, you have Tallulah, Tallulah Bankhead, on whom you base your One Woman show. She was completely outrageous before she.

Kathleen Turner26:22

Ahead.

Kathleen Turner26:26

Oh, yes She was shocking, she was self destructive, she was foolish, she was vain, she was honest.

Kathleen Turner26:33

She was bullient. She was a star. Oh, she was, yes. And.

Speaker 126:36

This is tough.

Kathleen Turner26:39

In the play, one of the things that we really sort of examine or.

Kathleen Turner26:44

Take apart is the idea of celebrity versus

Kathleen Turner26:48

Acting versus

Kathleen Turner26:50

You know, that she was such an outrageous woman that she was known more for being Tallulah than for the roles that she actually created, like Amanda in Private Lives and Regina in Little Foxes, where her she r she created those roles with the but she's not known for that, she's known for being Tallulah, and it drove her mad not to have

Kathleen Turner27:11

the recognition the legitimate recognition, you know.

Presenter27:15

So you love you love Tallulah. Do you love Mrs. Robinson?

Kathleen Turner27:15

So you love

Kathleen Turner27:18

No.

Presenter27:19

Hound.

Presenter27:22

Yeah.

Kathleen Turner27:22

Well, I c I care about her, I feel about her.

Kathleen Turner27:26

But I she's very far away from me. I'm I'm closer to Tallulah in a way, even though I would never behave in such a fashion.

Kathleen Turner27:34

But

Kathleen Turner27:35

misses Robinson is very is not compassionate.

Kathleen Turner27:39

And she's not honest with herself.

Speaker 127:40

He's not on it.

Speaker 127:42

Hmm.

Kathleen Turner27:42

And she's she's

Kathleen Turner27:46

She's recklessly hurtful without k thought, without consideration to others, and I cannot bear that. So she's a great character, okay.

Presenter27:53

Great.

Kathleen Turner27:58

Oh, this is Simon and Garfunkel Cathy's song.

Kathleen Turner28:03

When um he sings, I look across um to England where my heart lies.

Kathleen Turner28:10

And for about a year, I suppose it was, after my father's death, I actually had a return ticket, an airline ticket, to England.

Kathleen Turner28:18

that I could not use because I could not leave my mother or anything, and I had nowhere to go here, really. I just had the ticket, and I slept with it under my pillow for about a year until it expired.

Speaker 128:30

The song I was writing is left undone.

Speaker 128:36

I don't know why I spend my time

Speaker 228:39

Time.

Speaker 228:42

Writing songs I can't believe

Presenter28:47

Uh

Speaker 228:47

The word

Presenter28:47

Simon and Garfunkel with Cathy's song, which you say Cathy? Does anybody ever call her Cathy?

Kathleen Turner28:57

Not more than once.

Presenter28:58

But you have

Kathleen Turner28:58

Only one

Presenter28:59

Only a one. Okay, you say Kathy and Jenner. You're going to record that, Katie's sound.

Kathleen Turner28:59

You say Kathleen Turner, you're

Kathleen Turner29:03

I'd like to. I think I shall. Yes, I'm gonna my husband very much wants me to do an album of kinda blues and

Kathleen Turner29:10

sort of nightcluby sort of songs and

Presenter29:14

So another career that comes as that?

Kathleen Turner29:14

Yeah.

Kathleen Turner29:16

If I've got the time.

Presenter29:18

What about I mean talk about time all the time in the world on a desert island, Kathleen Turner on a desert island, your wits, your determination, you keep going.

Kathleen Turner29:22

Caffeine T.

Kathleen Turner29:26

Well, I would trust I wouldn't stay there too long, but I think I could I would make the I would do whatever I had to do, frankly, but I I I should miss

Kathleen Turner29:38

I like myself. I like being alone for a certain period, and I always get sick of it, so

Kathleen Turner29:43

I would do my best to get off.

Presenter29:45

But I mean you could wring a rabbit's neck or

Kathleen Turner29:48

Um yes I could. Yes, I absolutely could. I can climb that coconut tree, you betcha.

Presenter29:53

Last record.

Kathleen Turner29:55

Oh, this is my husband's. This is called This from the Suits album. And um.

Presenter30:00

We should expect I mean he is my husband

Kathleen Turner30:00

He's my husband, yes, also is a guitarist and a songwriter and has a record studio as well as his real estate business. And he has a band called The Suits that performs. And he wrote this

Kathleen Turner30:13

for my daughter and myself, because

Kathleen Turner30:16

He was writing about when I have to leave to go away to work, and so he gave us this song.

Kathleen Turner30:24

To help.

Kathleen Turner30:27

And when it's hard to go on, just hold on.

Kathleen Turner30:32

No, hold on with you. I've been wrong here. Face Dorm!

Speaker 230:39

Bye-bye.

Speaker 230:41

But um

Presenter30:46

The suits with Stay Strong and you're a backing singer on there, Kathleen.

Kathleen Turner30:49

Yes, I'm singing in the background.

Presenter30:51

If you could only take one of those eight records, which one would you take?

Kathleen Turner30:56

I think it would have to be the Tchaikovsky, because it has the most

Kathleen Turner31:01

Variety, and because I would need the sort of spine stiffening that it would give me.

Presenter31:06

You've got the Bible waiting for you, and the complete works of Shakespeare. One book?

Kathleen Turner31:08

The complete

Kathleen Turner31:11

Can I take a complete Jane Austen? No. Oh, damn it. I was afraid of that.

Kathleen Turner31:17

Well, I would d would definitely be at Jane Austen, um, because I find her endlessly interesting and humorous and

Kathleen Turner31:25

Her wit always pleases me. I

Kathleen Turner31:28

I suppose it would be Emma.

Kathleen Turner31:30

And, um, your luxury.

Kathleen Turner31:33

But

Kathleen Turner31:34

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding a bit, but

Kathleen Turner31:38

Minddress of Divina suggested to me that

Kathleen Turner31:42

If one

Kathleen Turner31:44

Told of a luxury on this show, one might get it in one's dressing room as well as a desert island. So I think I'll say roses.

Presenter31:50

Kathleen Turner, thank you very much indeed for letting us see your desert island discs.

Kathleen Turner31:54

Thank you.

Speaker 132:02

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co. uk slash radio four.