Clarissa Dickson Wright

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety nine, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:31

My castaway this week is a cook. Her father was a brilliant surgeon, but an alcoholic, and his daughter suffered in the same way. Inheriting a small fortune in her late twenties, she drank it all away within a few years. Though her money disappeared, her intelligence, wit, and culinary skills survived, to be discovered eventually by television. In the programme Two Fat Ladies, she famously partnered Jennifer Patterson in a series of highly entertaining and eccentric cookery adventures. Jennifer died earlier this year, so what now for the lady left behind, the lady with the pathological hatred of carrots, who once knocked out an Alsatian with her bare fists, and who rejoices or suffers in the name of Clarissa, Theresa, Philomena, Aileen, Mary, Josephine, Agnes, Elsie, Trilby, Louise, Esmeralda, Dixon, Wright.

Presenter1:20

Forgive me, Clarissa, but it is a completely ridiculous handle. What were your parents thinking of?

Clarissa Dickson Wright1:24

Well, they had great trouble deciding what to call me in the first place. I mean, they went through all sorts of various things like Verbina and Nigella and

Clarissa Dickson Wright1:31

Then they blindfolded my mother and turned her loose in the library, and thank God she pulled out Richardson's Clarissa and not the Encyclopaedia Britannica.

Clarissa Dickson Wright1:38

And then I think they were so delighted they finally found and found a name they got pissed on the way to the church.

Presenter1:44

What is it that you have against the humble carrot?

Clarissa Dickson Wright1:46

Will b

Clarissa Dickson Wright1:48

I just as I get older I have this more and more pathological hatred of them. My father used to pull them out of the ground and sort of dust them off and feed them to me, still with the slugs on them. Um and so I think I got sort of put off them. Now of course I would quite readily eat the slug, but I still have this thing against the carrot.

Presenter2:04

And why do you go around beating up Alsatian dogs?

Clarissa Dickson Wright2:07

No, I didn't. Um I was working for somebody who had this very badly behaved Alsatian. Um it had already taken out the gardener's bicep, and I was coming home from the dust bins, and this thing came racing towards me with its ears back and its teeth bared, and there was nobody but me in the Alsatian anywhere for miles.

Clarissa Dickson Wright2:24

And I remembered what my grandmother had said, that if you hit a dog on the right point of its jaw, you'd knock it out. So I thought, well, I had nothing to lose, so I went right down and went wham and the thing somersaulted over.

Clarissa Dickson Wright2:35

When it came to, of course, I was its pack leader. It followed me everywhere. I was inseparable from it.

Presenter2:41

Obviously, Clarissa, television, when it discovered you sought to exploit some of what I think most people would call eccentricity, but also with your collusion, it was deeply politically incorrect in calling you two fat ladies. You didn't mind this at all, did you?

Clarissa Dickson Wright2:55

Well, people used to say journalists hate the word fat, especially American journalists, and they used to say, Don't you object to the title? and I say, Well, there are two of us. I I I have problems with ladies'cause it sounds like a public convenience. Um but which bit do you object to? You know, are you saying I'm thin?

Clarissa Dickson Wright3:12

And they get terribly embarrassed. There was actually one journalist who couldn't say the word fat. We had to sort of re-educate him to say it.

Presenter3:19

Of course, it's been tremendously successful in very unusual for a British cookery programme to be successful in America, wasn't it?

Clarissa Dickson Wright3:25

Is it unique? Totally unique, yeah. I mean, I I now can't go out because when I go out I'm always accustomed by groups of Americans or Canadians or Australians or South Africans and the Americans come up and say, We love you.

Clarissa Dickson Wright3:39

And when I was walking to the rugby the other day, the South African Australia match, everyone, all the Australians were going, Hi, Chase, hi, it's Fiel and Northern South Africa's going, It's the lady on the tilly And in Japan you've become a man? No, only a man's voice. Um Japanese women have little breathy voices so that when they were recording it they they couldn't use women's voices, so they had men's voices going, Ho ha

Speaker 44:00

Waha!

Clarissa Dickson Wright4:00

Uh

Speaker 44:00

A woohoo!

Clarissa Dickson Wright4:00

A woo haw hand of

Presenter4:03

So it's been a great success. And then, sadly, sadly, Jennifer Upton died in August. Was it on the cards? Did you know it was coming?

Clarissa Dickson Wright4:11

No. Um, when we were filming at Nazley Safari Park, which was the last one we did, she was in cracking form and she loved it'cause she loved elephants and they had these elephants and lions and things. And then, you know, I said, Well, I'll see you in a couple of weeks and

Clarissa Dickson Wright4:25

Halfway through the following week she said, Oh, I don't feel very well. I think I go into bed and I said, We must go and see a doctor and don't let them bully you into filming if you're not well enough And she said, I don't think I could, darling and it was that moment I realized that she really was ill and so she went to the doctor and they did the tests and of course discovered that she had rampant cancer and three and a half weeks later she was dead.

Clarissa Dickson Wright4:46

But she died magnificently. She was wonderful. I mean, she was an example to all of us. If I can die that well, I shall be very happy.

Presenter4:47

I think it's a good thing.

Presenter4:52

Tell me about your first record.

Clarissa Dickson Wright4:54

My first record is Kenny Rogers The Gambler. Uh I'm a great fan of country and western music and uh I suppose people always used to say to me, you know, are you a gambler? and I said, No, no, because I don't gamble on the horses or the tables or whatever but I realized that I actually take quite considerable risks with myself and with um my career and um I think this this sums up the the philosophy of my life.

Speaker 45:18

You got to know when the whole of

Speaker 45:22

Know when to fold up.

Speaker 45:25

No wind to walk away

Speaker 45:27

No when to run, you never count your money.

Speaker 45:32

When you're sitting at the table, there'll be time enough for count

Speaker 45:38

When the deal is done.

Presenter5:43

Kenny Rogers and the Gambler. Another part of the secret of your success, really, Clarissa, is of course that you championed all that um unhealthy food, all that fat stuff, all those artery cloggers. Do you genuinely like that sort of stuff?

Clarissa Dickson Wright5:54

You can

Clarissa Dickson Wright5:55

I would disagree with it's unhealthy food. But yes, I do genuinely like it and I do believe that I mean, I would rather eat a cream cake than take ser take Prozac. You know, the only thing that that that stimulates the serotonin in the body is animal fat.

Clarissa Dickson Wright6:10

And I'm quite certain that the increase in antidepressants is directly relatable to the decrease in eating fat.

Presenter6:17

That's quite a theory. I've never heard that one before.

Clarissa Dickson Wright6:18

Well it's it's it's a scientific fact that that's what simulates the serotonin.

Presenter6:21

But it's interesting that because you do champion butter and eggs and cream and so on, that you've always rubbished Mrs Beaton, because of course she was the supreme, you know, take two dozen eggs, wasn't she?

Clarissa Dickson Wright6:31

Yeah, but Mrs. Beaton didn't cook. Tom Beaton was the the the um Robert Maxwell of his day, really. Her husband, her husband. And um

Presenter6:36

I think.

Clarissa Dickson Wright6:38

He had all these magazines, including

Clarissa Dickson Wright6:41

misses Beaton's Household Management, which was a fifteen part magazine for the Victoria Nyuppi.

Clarissa Dickson Wright6:45

Mrs Beaton's mother was a famous cook, she ran the um Grand Standard Epsom.

Clarissa Dickson Wright6:51

Mrs Beaton herself died at twenty six, having had five children in four years.

Presenter6:57

Not a lot of time for cooking, isn't it?

Clarissa Dickson Wright6:58

Oh, you know, so all these sort of recipes were sent in. He was obviously just a marketer, wasn't he? He was just a marketer, yes. He spotted a good idea.

Presenter7:03

The human

Presenter7:05

Put her name on it.

Clarissa Dickson Wright7:07

She put her name on it, put her picture on it, she had a good face for it.

Presenter7:09

Donation

Presenter7:10

But but you you say that she or that book made us overcook our vegetables ever more.

Clarissa Dickson Wright7:15

Yes, I mean if you look at at Georgian books, even late Georgian books, even the very early Victorian books, the the first editions for instance of Eliza Acton there are enormous swathes of literature about not overcooking your vegetables and and how to make them au poin and crisp and everything like that. And then he lifted piecemeal Fanny Farmer's Boston Irish cookbook, which was, you know, boil everything in four gallons of water for forty minutes because the Irish were disastrous with vegetables.

Presenter7:42

Especially disastrous and vegetable.

Presenter7:45

But but are you saying before that we did know how to cook? I mean, did she spoil it?

Clarissa Dickson Wright7:48

Yes, we knew how to cook wonderfully. The Italian ambassador, the Venetian ambassador, because Italy didn't exist, writing in seventeen forty eight, wrote The food of the inns of England is the stuff of which heaven is made.

Clarissa Dickson Wright8:02

I mean, nobody could say nowadays about the inns of England that the food is of the stuff of which heaven is made, although it's getting better.

Presenter8:07

So who who helped us back onto the right road? Because it's often said that Elizabeth David, with her French provincial cooking, you know, began to wake us up again.

Clarissa Dickson Wright8:15

I think Elizabeth David was an enormous inspiration. I mean, my generation is obviously the generation that was inspired by Elizabeth David. But I think really that the Renaissance of British cookery was brought about by people like Anthony Worrell Thompson, who was a great cook. Alice Tolittel, Sally Clark, Rowley Lee, Simon Hopkinson, they all

Clarissa Dickson Wright8:35

Are around the same period and they're not.

Presenter8:36

Delia Smith?

Speaker 48:37

Yeah.

Clarissa Dickson Wright8:38

Delia Smith cooks for Middle England, and she cooks very well for Middle England, and I will not have a word about these this egg business, because there isn't a single hotel in the country except the Doxard Dohan Cook and the Marcliffe at Pitfaudles that can cook eggs properly.

Presenter8:51

Which famous cook do you most admire?

Clarissa Dickson Wright8:53

I think probably Robert May.

Clarissa Dickson Wright8:57

Robert May was was um chef to um James VI of Scotland um and consequently came to England with him. And when you that I don't know if you remember, but there was a dish I cooked on Two Fat Ladies which was salmon with red wine and oranges and nutmeg. Well, that was an untranslated Robert May recipe.

Clarissa Dickson Wright9:15

And everybody said it was so modern it couldn't be historic. And that there is a a crab salad in there, which is if you saw it as just as a typed recipe and said identified, you say Che Panise or something like that.

Presenter9:27

Record number two.

Clarissa Dickson Wright9:28

My second sister, my sister June, who is I think probably the the cleverest member of my family married as her first husband a a delightful man called Byron Janis, who at the time was tipped as the the man most likely to succeed in piano playing circles, and was chosen.

Clarissa Dickson Wright9:45

to play at the Brussels exhibition and um

Clarissa Dickson Wright9:49

We all went over to to to hear him play.

Presenter9:51

Early fifties, I think.

Clarissa Dickson Wright9:52

Early fifties, yeah, so I think I was about five or six.

Clarissa Dickson Wright9:55

And um they used to come and stay with us when we were in London and um he'd always would take our piano out and have the Steinway brought in and he would practise and practise and practise and I couldn't understand why he'd wanted to practise instead of come and playing football with me wasn't a. And um when I went to the Brussels exhibition I suppose it dawned on me why he spent so much time practising.

Presenter11:15

Byron Janice playing part of Chopin's Etude number five in G flat major. Memories of attending your first party in a posh frock, Clarissa. Do you remember the first food that made an impression on you?

Clarissa Dickson Wright11:26

Well, I remember the fir the first food very clearly, because I think I must have been about three and a half. We had a picnic, I can see it very clearly, in the woods at Wisley by the Royal Horticultural Society, and it was a

Clarissa Dickson Wright11:39

A hard-boiled egg and a cold sausage. And I remember peeling the egg and it peeled perfectly. You know how sometimes they do.

Clarissa Dickson Wright11:46

And the sausage was just a very good sausage, and I remember it distinctly, and think, Gosh, this is this is life in a way.

Presenter11:51

But the family lived in St John's Wood in in uh North London, very well heeled, servants and so on. Did you you had a cook, presumably?

Clarissa Dickson Wright11:58

Yeah, we had a wonderful cook Lord Louise Leeds. I mean she was about five foot two and weighed twenty stone and she was illiterate.

Clarissa Dickson Wright12:06

She never wanted to learn to read. It wasn't something that interested her. And so I used to go and read recipes out loud to her. And like so many people who don't read, she just remembered them instinctively. She and my mother used to have great arguments about what they were going to serve. We my father was was quite high had a high profile in the medical profession, so we entertained a lot, serious entertaining.

Clarissa Dickson Wright12:26

And I remember the one wonderful occasion with Louise standing on this balcony it was a Georgian house, so the balcony was creaking alarmingly anyway saying,'Madam, if you make me cook that, I'll jump' and my mother saying,'If you don't, Louise, you might as well.

Presenter12:40

Your father, as I said, was a brilliant surgeon, attended royalty as well, I think. Oh, yes.

Clarissa Dickson Wright12:43

Oh yes, yes.

Presenter12:44

Um first surgeon to remove a bullet from the spine without leaving the patient paralysed.

Clarissa Dickson Wright12:44

Ha ha ha

Clarissa Dickson Wright12:48

That's right. It was I mean, he he was remarkable in pioneer surgery. He did a lot of things like that. When he was at the Tantonk Singh Hospital in Singapore, uh he developed the operation for stripping varicus veins because of the rickshaw coolies. Because obviously they couldn't take the time to have them cut out and convalesce. And so he decided that if you strip them

Speaker 113:01

It is a

Clarissa Dickson Wright13:07

And that was his operative. How could he do all of that and be an alcoholic?

Clarissa Dickson Wright13:12

You'd be amazed what people do and be an alcoholic. But I mean, obviously like all alcoholics at at that stage he his drinking hadn't um hadn't really bitten in. Um I saw more of it perhaps than than other members of the family because I he was fifty when I was born.

Presenter13:27

You were you were, what, thirteen years younger, I think. Thirteen years younger than the next one up. What did you see then? How did his drinking affect home life?

Clarissa Dickson Wright13:30

Thirty years younger than the next one up.

Clarissa Dickson Wright13:37

Well, as in any alcoholic home, there was always this tension. There was always this feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop. You know, you never know with the alcoholic if they're going to come home in a good mood or they're going to come home drunk or whatever. Um so there was always that tension, that that slight walking on eggs feeling that that anybody who's been there will recognize. And of course he was, when he was very drunk, extremely violent. So he would come home and um

Speaker 113:48

The

Clarissa Dickson Wright14:01

One would take cover.

Clarissa Dickson Wright14:03

Record number three.

Clarissa Dickson Wright14:05

is the first record I ever owned. Bill Haley's Rock Around the Clock, which for my generation is a great sort of breakthrough. It's the real first rock and roll record, you know, the the jiving years and all the excitement about it. And um it just opened my eyes to a whole different type of music.

Speaker 414:23

1, 2, 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock, rock. 5, 6, 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock, rock. 9, 10, 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, rock. We're going to rock around. 10 o'clock tonight. What's up? Join me home. We'll have some fun. When the clock strikes, we're going to rock around.

Speaker 414:43

What the fuck?

Presenter14:49

Bill Haley, and rock around the clock. So, father made your life, Clarissa Dixon Wright, unpredictable, unstable.

Presenter14:56

Where did you escape how did you escape from all of that?

Clarissa Dickson Wright14:59

Well, I think initially with books, I've always been a book person. I mean, to this day, you know, I I feel naked if I don't have a book somewhere around me.

Clarissa Dickson Wright15:08

And I remember I learned to read when I was three and a half and I've been reading ever since. And then I went away to boarding school and I loved boarding school because

Clarissa Dickson Wright15:17

The gold paste didn't move, but the rules were there. If you wanted to break the rules, you break them. If you didn't, but you knew what they were.

Presenter15:19

The state rules

Presenter15:24

Your father didn't leave you anything in his will, because it was a great falling out before he died. But what you did inherit from him, of course, was his alcoholism. When did it begin for you?

Clarissa Dickson Wright15:33

It began for me when my mother died. Um I was, if anything, perhaps too close to my mother. You know, we were bonded there together against my father's behaviour. And I came home and I found her dead and it was a a shock I I simply couldn't handle. And I went round to to this friend's house and I poured myself a large whisky, which was a surprise to everybody because I really didn't drink.

Presenter15:54

How old are you?

Clarissa Dickson Wright15:55

I was twenty five and um

Clarissa Dickson Wright15:58

I remember as I drank it feeling, you know, this is the answer, this is it, you know, why have I waited so long not to drink? You know, I've come home. And from there on in I drank very heavily, very quickly, getting to two bottles of gin a day and and the rest.

Presenter16:11

Interesting, though, that you hadn't drunk before that, had you been positively avoiding it.

Clarissa Dickson Wright16:15

Yes, because apart from my mother, the alcoholism was very obvious in the rest of my family.

Presenter16:19

But when you drank it, you recognized it, it recognized your body recognized it.

Clarissa Dickson Wright16:23

My body recognised it and and, you know, my genes recognized it, I suppose. But you thought you could control it? No, I never thought I could control it. I was on a path for destruction.

Presenter16:29

No.

Presenter16:33

And you knew that?

Clarissa Dickson Wright16:33

And I knew it. And it was a it was a choice that I made. And I remember saying that.

Presenter16:36

Why did you make that choice?

Clarissa Dickson Wright16:38

Uh

Presenter16:38

Uh

Clarissa Dickson Wright16:38

I think that I felt this enormous sense of failure, that I failed my mother, that she had died before I had been able to help her create a life that was enjoyable.

Presenter16:47

And were you a benign drunk, or were you also, like your father, quite a quite violent in drink?

Clarissa Dickson Wright16:53

I was both I mean, I became, at the end of my drinking, very like my father. Um

Clarissa Dickson Wright16:57

I you know, I think if you grow up in a violent environment there is this predisposition to violence because it's something you understand. And there is a a uh an enormous

Clarissa Dickson Wright17:09

Simplicity about violence, you know, i it it is an it's an instant answer. You know, it shuts everything up, at least for the time being.

Clarissa Dickson Wright17:17

I was once attemptedly mugged, and I put them both in intensive care. I mean, I didn't go round beating people up, but if people were aggressive to me, then then um.

Clarissa Dickson Wright17:26

Then I hid them.

Presenter17:27

But you also, I think I mean, there was a positive side to this, you also were incredibly generous, weren't you?

Clarissa Dickson Wright17:32

Oh, yes, yes, um, generosity is is one of my

Clarissa Dickson Wright17:36

Vices or virtues, whichever you choose to call it. But you gave terrific parties. Oh, huge parties.

Presenter17:41

Took everybody out, spent your inheritance.

Clarissa Dickson Wright17:43

Yes, we had a lovely time. I mean, I blew it and I blew it unashamedly and we had a lot of fun doing it and we went to great places and did great things and um

Clarissa Dickson Wright17:53

You know, it's now the the basis of what I talk about, what I write about, all the things I've done. So if you like it, it was an investment. If I'd had another hundred thousand I'd have been dead, so it's just as well I spent it.

Presenter18:05

Equipment before.

Clarissa Dickson Wright18:07

This is uh the lament for Donald Ban McCrimmon. My mother was a daughter of an Aberdonian Scot, and and my father was raised in Glasgow. And there is nothing, as you know, more Scottish than an ex patriot Scot. But my mother always had a piper for parties, and he was a lovely old boy called Pipe Major Robertson.

Clarissa Dickson Wright18:27

I used to have to ring him up and ask him what his favourite whisky was.

Clarissa Dickson Wright18:31

And he said to me,'Oh, Miss,' he says,'the doctor's limited me to one' and I said,'One glass pipe, Major'? No, no, one bottle.

Clarissa Dickson Wright18:39

And my mother and he always used to argue, and she would say, You will play the Lament for the Clan Chief at my funeral and he said, I will not, I will not, you know, you're not a man, you're not a clan chief, there's no way I can play this

Clarissa Dickson Wright18:52

And uh my mother said, You'll see.

Clarissa Dickson Wright18:54

And guess it was right.

Presenter19:26

John McFadden playing The Lament for Donald Ban McCrimmon.

Presenter19:29

But, Clarissa, you had become a ba weren't you the youngest person to be called to the bar?

Clarissa Dickson Wright19:34

Yes, that's right, I was. Um I think I still remain the youngest woman to be called to the bar. Um I did um my degree externally through London at the same time as I did my bar exams,'cause my father wouldn't pay for me to go to Oxford unless I read medicine and I didn't want to read med I wasn't qualified to read medicine. Dear God, think how many people I might have killed. What happened to your legal career?

Clarissa Dickson Wright19:55

Well, I walked away from it. I was subsequently disbarred and then subsequently reinstated, but that had nothing to do with my walking away from it. That happened in Abyssinia. What happened was my mother died and and left me all this money and I went off to try and sort out her estate and sort of went off round the world and

Clarissa Dickson Wright20:12

In a way it's really strange. Because I started drinking, I think, you know, drink destroys ambition. Before that I was terribly ambitious.

Clarissa Dickson Wright20:20

And suddenly it was almost as though I I'd done it, and done, you know, I could hear I could hear the eulogies at my memorial service in my head. So what was the point of actually going through the mechanics of doing it? You know. And I I'd I'd had a very s potentially successful career. A lot of people had said very kind things about me. Lord Denning was very full of praise for me.

Clarissa Dickson Wright20:40

And I think, you know, had I not been an alcoholic, I probably would have succeeded.

Presenter20:43

So you drank and you drank and you drank ten years, twelve years. Twelve years. Yes. And uh what were you drinking?

Clarissa Dickson Wright20:46

Twelve years.

Clarissa Dickson Wright20:48

Oh, gin largely. I mean, I my my habit was two bottles of gin a day, and at the end I'd have a third of a bottle of vodka before I got out of bed and

Clarissa Dickson Wright20:57

Anything else we can get my hands on or keep down?

Presenter21:00

When came the moment that you decided you should do something about it, or could do something about it?

Clarissa Dickson Wright21:04

I never really decided I could. I think I decided I I I couldn't go on. Um I remember I was working in in in the country and I had this cooking.

Presenter21:12

I have this

Speaker 121:12

Uh

Clarissa Dickson Wright21:14

I cooked in other people's houses and I had this um

Clarissa Dickson Wright21:17

This job where I only really worked at weekends, and I was kept an eye on things during the week, and then they came down for the weekends.

Clarissa Dickson Wright21:27

I'd been making some jam and I spilt um the jam burnt and some of it spilt on to the quarry tiles, and I was chipping it off the quarry tile.

Clarissa Dickson Wright21:37

And because I was on my knees I mean, I hadn't prayed for years it wasn't that I didn't believe in God, I was just too arrogant to ask for help. And because I was on my knees, I said, Dear God, if you're up there, I really can't go on. Please do something. And it was really from the heart. It was a cry from the heart.

Clarissa Dickson Wright21:53

And from there on I mean the next day I got arrested. I got arrested for a breathalyzer I don't even remember happening.

Clarissa Dickson Wright21:58

And um was cartied down the drive of this state home in a police car as the house party was coming up it for the weekend, you know.

Clarissa Dickson Wright22:06

sort of waving out of the window at them as they came past.

Clarissa Dickson Wright22:10

And I very seriously thought of going to the embankment when the embankment, they say, is a place in your head.

Clarissa Dickson Wright22:15

And I thought I could go and I wouldn't have to worry about anything else but where the next drink's coming from. And then I thought, well, if there is something thereafter out there, one day I might have to face my mother. How on earth am I ever going to explain to her that I went to the embankment? And then the events rolled on and my sister-in-law knew somebody who knew Dr. Robert defevo had this treatment centre.

Presenter22:38

And it worked. And it worked. Not a drink since.

Clarissa Dickson Wright22:39

And it worked.

Clarissa Dickson Wright22:41

Twelve and a half years now.

Presenter22:43

Number five.

Clarissa Dickson Wright22:45

Number five is As Time Goes By, and that's for my dear Clive, who was really, I think, the man I love best in all my life, um and he died. Uh and the first time I met him he was standing in Jules' Bar with a chef's hat on, handing out gulls' eggs to unsuspecting Americans and telling them they could eat them with the shells on. And then he turned away and he was humming as time goes by and um it was his favorite tune and everywhere we went I remember sitting in the doorstep piano bar when Mike Mackenzie was there and Clive would always ask for as time goes by used to drive people mad.

Speaker 423:16

It's still the same old story, A fight for love and glory, A case of do or die.

Speaker 423:27

The world will always welcome lovers as time goes by.

Presenter23:39

Dooley Wilson singing as time goes by from the soundtrack of Casablanca and Memories of Lost Love for Clarissa Dixon Wright. How how long were you together with Clive, Clarissa?

Clarissa Dickson Wright23:48

It really wasn't all that long. It was only a few years. But it was a very happy few years. We we enjoyed the same things. We enjoyed going racing. We used to sit up half the night playing backgammon just for fun.

Clarissa Dickson Wright23:59

You know, we spent a lot of time doing things together and I think it was a very good idea.

Presenter24:01

Why didn't you marry?

Clarissa Dickson Wright24:03

Well, marriage isn't really for me. I've I've never taken to the idea of marriage. I've never wanted to have children.

Clarissa Dickson Wright24:09

And

Clarissa Dickson Wright24:11

Well, because I feel rather that I've come to the end of my genetic pool. I'm a bit like a panda. I'm better off if I don't breed, red.

Presenter24:18

Not because you were frightened you might be violent towards them like your father had been.

Clarissa Dickson Wright24:20

No, I think I would have been a terrible mother. But it wouldn't wasn't the violence I was I was worried about, it was the the control, the fact that um I would have incredibly high expectations of them, as my father had of me. Um I remember saying to my goddaughter when she was taking her eleven plus, and then she said, Mummy says I must work hard and do my best and yeah, I love this child and I said to her, Well, don't expect your godmother to love you if you don't get over ninety percent, you know. And poor little thing, you know, she hold her eyes out.

Presenter24:47

What happened to Clive in the end? How did he die?

Clarissa Dickson Wright24:49

He got a a virus from the water on holiday in Madeira and came back and they

Clarissa Dickson Wright24:54

Couldn't isolate the virus and they put him on a drip to bypass his liver and his kidneys packed up.

Presenter24:58

How old was he?

Clarissa Dickson Wright25:00

Forty nine.

Presenter25:01

Terrible, no. There's never been anybody else.

Clarissa Dickson Wright25:02

Nobody serious. No nobody I've ever really thought I wanted to settle down with now. Still looking?

Clarissa Dickson Wright25:08

No, I'm not looking, but if they they came, well then they come, you know.

Presenter25:11

And and the weight, Clarissa, is is the result of the drink, I gather. It's it's to do with the quinine you've drunk.

Clarissa Dickson Wright25:18

Yes, it's the most bizarre thing. When I was in my treatment center, they took a a a blood test.

Clarissa Dickson Wright25:23

and discovered I had very sticky blood, you see, so they sent me off to see the specialist to find out what was wrong with me.

Clarissa Dickson Wright25:30

At Saint Mary's Paddington the metabolist said, Have you ever lived in the malaria belt?

Clarissa Dickson Wright25:35

So I said, No, why? And he said, Well, this is a condition that's usually found in people who've taken a lot of malaria tablets.

Clarissa Dickson Wright25:42

And the penny dropped and I said, Quinine? and he said, Well, yes And I said well how about tonic water? and he said in this rather pompous way that consultants have, My dear young lady would have to drink a very great deal of tonic for over a very long period of time in order to to to get this condition and I said well how about six pints a day for twelve years and he said well yeah that would do it.

Speaker 125:53

Yeah.

Presenter26:03

But it's destroyed something in you so you can't diet.

Clarissa Dickson Wright26:06

That don't work anyway, but what happens is that my adrenal gland is like a a dripping tap.

Clarissa Dickson Wright26:12

It's as though the washer's gone. And so it's this constant drip feed of adrenaline, which gives me a lot of energy. I have an enormous amount of energy. But also means that I metabolise incredibly slowly because I'm permanently at the stage as if I was running away from a saber-toothed tiger. Number six.

Clarissa Dickson Wright26:28

Ah well, although it may not be obvious from my my current appearance, I I'm a great dancer. I love dancing.

Clarissa Dickson Wright26:35

We used to go out to the Discotex every night and dance, and this was in the seventies. And of course, it was at the time when Bailey M had produced Rah-Rah Raspatin. And when I had my fiftieth birthday a couple of years ago, it was the last tune they played at about a quarter to four in the morning. And I thought, right, let's really go for it. And there I was, swinging it about and moving it. And I got this terrible pain in my chest. And I thought, dear God, you know, I will die on the dance floor. What a great way to go. It's been a fantastic party. And yeah, that's it.

Clarissa Dickson Wright27:05

And when I came off the dance, I discovered I'd broken my underwire bra.

Speaker 427:09

There was a certain man in Russia long ago. He was big and strong, in his life the family glow.

Speaker 427:23

Such a lovely deal.

Speaker 427:25

He would reach the fire like the reach of full of ecstasy and fire.

Speaker 427:33

Uh y'all so fun

Presenter27:39

Oni M and ra ra raspatin. You said that um even when you were young and rich and successful you weren't really happy. There was something missing. What about now? Have you found happiness?

Clarissa Dickson Wright27:50

Oh, I'm incredib I mean, I love my life now. I'm incredibly happy.

Clarissa Dickson Wright27:55

They they have this saying in in in the Twelve Step Fellowships that things will happen beyond your wildest dreams. And um I used to to think, not mine, you know, that no no, I don't want a suburban house and two children and things like that, which are all very admirable things to want, but they're not what I want.

Clarissa Dickson Wright28:11

won't happen to me and I mean my my life is just amazing. I mean

Clarissa Dickson Wright28:15

I remember saying to to this friend of mine, you know, I think I'm living in a blockbuster novel and she said, You are living in a blockbuster novel.

Clarissa Dickson Wright28:21

And things keep happening. I mean, yesterday I went to the Butchers' Hall to take the first step to be received as a full member of the worshipful company of butchers and a freeman of the City of London, and it's all so exciting. I mean, no, life is really good.

Clarissa Dickson Wright28:35

Number seven.

Clarissa Dickson Wright28:36

This is, I think, the the ultimate party song. I want it at my funeral. It's the drinking song from Traviata. I I love Verdi. Verdi's my favourite operatic composer and um I had a friend once I used to go to the opera with a lot and we actually heard this uh production of Montserrat Caballe and and Carlo Bogonzi and it it was, I thought, brilliant. And uh it's just this wonderful party tune.

Speaker 129:36

Ah

Speaker 429:42

Living on the loyalty for all

Speaker 429:47

Cursion.

Presenter29:59

Monserrat Caballee as Violetta, and Carlo Bergonzi as Alfredo, singing the drinking song Libiamo from Verdi's La Traviata, with the RCA Italian Opera Orchestra and Chorus conducted by Georges Pretre, and that was recorded in nineteen sixty seven, and it will be played at your funeral if you have your way, Tlarissa.

Speaker 430:15

Yeah.

Presenter30:16

I can't think that a a desert island holds any great test for you. I mean, won't you kind of throttle the nearest snake and pop him in a stewpot or something?

Clarissa Dickson Wright30:23

Oh, undoubtedly, yes. I mean, I've always wondered, is it an inhabited desert island?

Presenter30:28

Is it? I think it's whatever you think it is, really. What's your image of a desert island?

Clarissa Dickson Wright30:28

Mm-hmm.

Clarissa Dickson Wright30:32

Well, I mean, my dim image of a desert island is it's made of palm trees and sea and lots of nice shellfish around the place and um the odd hunky native or whatever.

Speaker 130:41

Yeah.

Presenter30:41

Whatever.

Clarissa Dickson Wright30:42

Yeah, the the fairly temperate climate. I mean, not not not too scorchingly hot.

Presenter30:47

But in a sense you'd be in your element, wouldn't you? Because you could entirely do your own thing. You'd be answerable to no one, and that's how you like it.

Clarissa Dickson Wright30:53

Absolutely. No, I think it would be perfect. And, you know, as long as there were lots of nice things to eat, I'd have no trouble in tracking them down and cooking them.

Presenter30:59

What about if we could conjure up your last meal on this earth, your desert island meal, what would it be?

Clarissa Dickson Wright31:05

Well, I hope that there would be wild pigs on this island so that I could um make myself some Chinese wonton. Um I hope I would be able to grave some wild re wheat and and make um you know, noodles. Uh so I'd start off with wonton soup and then I'd have some sort of shellfish

Clarissa Dickson Wright31:24

Soup. I don't mean a a a a a a made soup, a sort of real broth with like a bouilla base, but made entirely with shellfish, a bit of lobsters, a bit of clam, you know, a bit of oyster, that something.

Clarissa Dickson Wright31:34

And then um dare we hope for cattle, and a few wild raspberries, and some cream that I'd got from the cattle, and some cheese that I'd made, either from the cattle or the wild gates. I'm particularly fond of gates cheese, and um

Clarissa Dickson Wright31:49

Well, I don't know. They'd probably be plantains growing, so I could cook myself some plantains as a vegetable, and maybe some sweet potatoes. You know, this is a Caribbean island, I decided. I spent a lot of happy time in the Caribbean, and uh

Clarissa Dickson Wright32:01

Yes, maybe it would be great, really.

Clarissa Dickson Wright32:03

Last drop

Clarissa Dickson Wright32:05

My last record is um

Clarissa Dickson Wright32:07

Dear Lord and Father of mankind, when I was in my treatment centre in Promise I used to go every Sunday to Yvenson, and um every week

Clarissa Dickson Wright32:16

Probably just for me, they sang Dear Lord and Father of Mankind, which is a perfect song for a for an alcoholic, because it has that wonderful line in it, and somewhere amid this turbulence the still small voice of calm. And the one thing as an alcoholic that when one's drinking one doesn't have, and even when one's sabre, one has to work towards, is serenity as peace.

Speaker 432:41

Yeah.

Speaker 432:43

Oh the Son Lord.

Speaker 432:49

Let sense be dumb, let flesh retire, Speak through the earthquake when

Speaker 433:04

But

Speaker 433:08

Oh still spoil

Presenter33:18

Alad Jones, accompanied by Hugh Tregelis Williams, singing Dear Lord and Father of Mankind.

Presenter33:24

Now, Clarissa, if you could only take one of those eight records, which one would you take to your island?

Clarissa Dickson Wright33:28

Oh, I think rara raspberry.

Presenter33:31

Give me the exercise.

Presenter33:33

You've got the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. What about your book?

Clarissa Dickson Wright33:36

without a moment's hesitation the complete works of Hector Herbert Munro, otherwise known as Sake. I took that book everywhere with me police cells, upside down, motor cars, anything you'd like, you know.

Clarissa Dickson Wright33:48

And your luxury.

Clarissa Dickson Wright33:50

A wind up river

Presenter33:50

Big.

Clarissa Dickson Wright33:51

Video

Presenter33:52

Clarissa Dixon Wright, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Speaker 134:03

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.