Michael Green

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety nine, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:31

My Castaway this week is a businessman. He's one of the moguls of British television, chairman of a company that operates several ITV franchises, owns production and facilities companies, and has extensive interests abroad.

Presenter0:42

He left school with three O levels, went into business with his brother, and bit by bit built up the network that has made him a powerful force in the media. The digital age has brought him his greatest challenge yet, and he staked much of his reputation and quite a lot of money on its future development. But one facet of his personality may turn out to be his secret weapon. Only the paranoid survive in business, he says. The other guy is going to come up and eat you unless you run fast. He is the chairman of Carlton Communications, Michael Green. So are you paranoid enough to survive, Michael?

Michael Green1:17

Yes.

Presenter1:18

Can you stop Rupert Murdoch running up and eating you up digitally?

Michael Green1:23

I don't think you can stop Rupert Murdoch or people like Rupert Murdoch, and I have huge admiration for what he's achieved as a businessman. We are entering a completely new world where there is going to be more choice for everybody in television.

Michael Green1:39

I believe that's a good thing. I believe that there will be more than one supplier. I think what people are doing now is um it's a bit like a land rush. They're trying to stake their claim for some of that new land.

Presenter1:50

Yes, but you naturally want to be out front, and you don't use the word paranoid lightly, I know, because your mother's a psychologist. What do you mean when you said it hints of a kind of insecurity?

Michael Green2:00

Yes, it is an insecurity because the moment you start to think you've got a a right to survive, the moment you believe that you've got something that is going to work, you become complacent. I was the new entrant into ITV. It was very interesting because that was a monopoly business. If you look at the choice today, you'll see that if the old management skills of ITV were still running that monopoly, they would not survive.

Presenter2:24

But I I mean, I want to come on to talk about that, I have to say. But I I'm just interested in you and how you approach it uh personally. Because this business of security, I've read also that you don't like debt. You like, don't you, to be able to be liquid at any one time. I mean, that's not good business, is it?

Michael Green2:36

Able to be

Michael Green2:40

At the moment it isn't. That's absolutely correct. In the last five years that's been a mistake.

Michael Green2:45

I think because of my background, because of the fact that all my grandparents were immigrants, they came from Russia, there must be some insecurity there. My grandfather always wore a shirt and tie, he always wore a jacket. He said, look, we are new to this country. We have to behave ourselves. We have to look smart. I was brought up in a certain work ethic that you cannot take anything for granted. You have to fight to survive.

Presenter3:08

And you have to be ready at any moment to sell up and move on.

Michael Green3:12

There is something about being a nomad. You know, the Jews go back many thousands of years, over five thousand years, and I I do see in lots of my contemporaries that there is this feeling that, yes, one day you might move on.

Presenter3:24

Is there space in all of this, though, for you to enjoy your business? Do you I mean what do you get out of it?

Michael Green3:29

Definitely. I think it's a good idea.

Presenter3:30

If you're right in paranoia and fear, you

Michael Green3:33

Yes, but I do enjoy it. I really enjoy it. I have a laugh. I laugh more than many that I see. I'm in a very exciting business. You have to enjoy what you're doing at the level that I'm working. If you didn't enjoy it, you're crazy to carry on.

Presenter3:49

Tell me about your first record.

Michael Green3:50

My first record I'd like is Go Your Own Way by Fleetwood Mac. That reminds me of my early days in business. I was actually employing about a thousand people when I was 21. I was originally in the printing business and we had unions, we had organised labour and it was an incredible awakening to a young man to work out what was happening in the early 70s in Britain.

Speaker 34:14

Go your own way, go your own way.

Speaker 34:21

You can call it another lonely day.

Speaker 34:29

You can go your own way

Presenter4:36

Please with Mac and go your own way. It's undoubtedly the case, Michael Greene, that quite early on in your career, and you're fifty one now, you set your heart on getting into television, into the television business. You tried very hard over a long period of time and you failed quite a few times, but eventually you got there. Why? What was the fascination? Why television?

Michael Green4:56

I was very excited about an industry that you could actually start with an idea with a blank sheet of paper.

Michael Green5:04

Have human talent create a product and then sell it.

Presenter5:08

But wasn't it also the glamour as well? You know, there are stories of when you were for a short time chairman of ITN that you used to go and sit on the floor as the live news at ten went out with the earphones on. You lo you like that glamour?

Michael Green5:19

No, glamour's the wrong word. I love live television. There is no substitute for live television. That is astonishing. But the glamour was definitely not the attraction. The the attraction was that if you are in a new business you can attract very bright talent.

Presenter5:34

And also it can be a licence to print money, as Roy Thompson famously said.

Michael Green5:37

Well, that's that's sort of the quote, I believe. But yeah, I tha m making money is very important, and I I'm sure I would not have gone into a business that I didn't see I could make a lot of money. But I still come back to the theme that if you are in an exciting business, we can attract the good talent. By attracting the good talent, our business grows.

Presenter5:53

But it's not the best way of making money. You could have gone into property, for example.

Michael Green5:57

That's absolutely true.

Michael Green6:01

I think this is again part of my background, because I came from a very comfortable home and I was never short of anything, that money was a by product, a very important by product, but I was much more interested in building a business and making something than just making money.

Presenter6:17

You wanted to be in a creative business. So you eventually got in and now you're a main player. I mean, let's list them. You you own Carlton Television, obviously, C Central, West Country, Planet Twenty Four. You have a share in GM T V, in ITN and you're half of On Digital with Granada, which we'll come to. But

Presenter6:33

At the same time, you are, famously again, the tycoon that nobody knows. Why have you stayed so far in the background in comparison with your rivals like Jerry Robinson of Granada or Clive Hollick of United?

Michael Green6:46

I am a businessman. I'm very happy being a businessman. I'm very comfortable being a businessman.

Presenter6:51

But businessmen have to be high profile.

Michael Green6:53

When I was very keen for the government to change legislation on ownership rules, I did go about making speeches and and banging the drum because I felt something very important had to happen.

Presenter7:09

You dobbied Mrs. Thatcher Hart.

Michael Green7:10

I lobbied every single politician I could find. Mrs. Thatcher was one of them. The civil servants were even more important, because there you did need public opinion.

Presenter7:20

But the name of Michael Greene isn't on the lips of the public in the way that Jerry Robinson is. Why not? Why you you certainly don't like it much. You do it, it sounds to me, as if you uh when you have to do it, but not because you enjoy it at all.

Michael Green7:34

Because that's not my role. I'm a little suspicious of the businessmen that are great presenters. When I see businessmen pontificating and very good on television, I'm not certain they're very good at running a business.

Presenter7:45

I suppose two of your closest friends' names come to mind at this moment Charles Sarchy, who also is notorious for staying in the shadows, unlike his brother Maurice, and and Gerald Ratner, and look what happened when he stepped out of them. Is that one of the reasons as well?

Michael Green7:57

Yeah.

Michael Green7:58

Well, certainly I've learned a lot from both of them.

Presenter8:01

The fear of saying the wrong

Michael Green8:03

Wrong thing.

Michael Green8:04

Look, I think that was part of it as far as Gerald was concerned. Um no, I'm not frightened of saying the wrong thing. I just think that you shouldn't be

Michael Green8:12

Publicly speaking, unless you've got something to say. Michael Grade was a great influence on me in that department.

Presenter8:19

And we all know his name.

Michael Green8:20

That should be

Presenter8:21

Tell me about record number two.

Michael Green8:23

Record number two is um Edith Piaff in Nant je ne regrette rien. Um I remember going to this as a very young boy with my mum. We went to Paris to the Coliseum. Um Edith Piaff was extremely ill. I remember she was carried on to the stage. It's really a wonderful story about tragedy and huge talent.

Speaker 38:42

No real greater.

Speaker 38:53

Nila Bea forma

Speaker 38:58

Neal mile

Speaker 39:00

Usane

Presenter9:09

Edith Piaff and Non Jeune Regretorien. You were born and brought up in central London, Michael. You you're a Baker Street boy. What uh what did your father do for a living?

Michael Green9:19

My father was a successful businessman. He ran something called Turn Shirts. He took it from scratch. He was one of the first, along with Harry Railbrook, that started the non-iron drip dry shirt. And he had a factory in Brixton, a factory in Tottenham. I remember going to it with my brother. And eventually he floated the company.

Presenter9:39

But you and your brother would have expected to go into the business.

Michael Green9:41

Oh, definitely. I remember when he announced to us in our home in Baker Street that he'd sold out. He'd made a huge sum of money in those days. And David and I were devastated. We thought this was the worst thing we'd ever heard. We were absolutely certain that that's where we were going to work.

Presenter9:56

So were you a bit lost then? Because it seems to me reading about you didn't concentrate much at school because you kind of knew the future was out there.

Michael Green10:03

I think we were furious. I was certainly angry. I knew the future was out there. I went to a very good school, Haberdash's Asks. It was very competitive, very bright boys. I did not excel at school. And because I did not excel, I just took myself out of it.

Presenter10:18

Why not then? Where was that famous competitive spirit? I mean, let me let me list some of your high achieving contemporaries, David Elstein, who now runs Channel Five, Dennis Marks, who ran the ENO, Nicholas Sirot, who runs the Tape. All these people around you. Why weren't you up there keeping up, if not exceeding them?

Michael Green10:37

There is a big difference between the three people you've mentioned, and they are very successful in their field, but none of them are entrepreneurs. None of them have actually run their own businesses. I was very busy playing cards at school. I was very busy meeting young ladies.

Presenter10:53

Gambling, you can think.

Michael Green10:54

Yes, uh gambling, yes. Um I didn't feel that getting a a great uh

Michael Green11:01

achievement with my O levels and A levels was going to be the route to my success.

Presenter11:05

But then didn't you ask your father to help you get a job at the end of it all, and were famously rebuffed?

Michael Green11:11

Yes, he won't like this, but he gave me a copy of the Evening Stand and said go get a job.

Presenter11:17

Which is not what you do for your own children.

Michael Green11:18

No, I think it's wrong. I think uh if you've got some advantages and uh what what is the point of having them? I mean I've seen money spoil a lot of children. It's a very difficult thing to bring up children when you do have advantages. But there is some uh middle ground there. You you certainly give them the start. You certainly introduce them to somebody. And once you've done that, we all know they'll last three months. If they're no good they get fired.

Presenter11:41

I do find it fascinating, though, that you failed Maths O level. I'm sorry to bring it up, but I mean, is there a theory for that behind that?

Michael Green11:48

It's not only extraordinary, but I am so numerate. I'm it I'm definitely one of these businessmen that really loves numbers and understands numbers. It's because the syllabus didn't relate to real things. The first set of accounts I genuinely learnt were my own management accounts in my company. Because I would relate debtors to people that owed me money. I would relate creditors to people that I owed money to. Therefore, the figures meant something to me.

Presenter12:14

So basically, academe was not for you. You didn't go to university. You took hold of your bar mitzvah money, am I right, and started your first business. How much was there?

Michael Green12:21

And started your

Michael Green12:23

My brother and I started with £5,000 at number twelve Old Comson Street above a strip club. We um I think we spent the entire money within the first week. We used to have to pay rent to the chap downstairs who I used to measure his fists and if I put both my fists together that was still not as big as one of his. It was very exciting times.

Presenter12:44

Record number three.

Michael Green12:45

My third record is The Godfather Waltz. It was quite an important moment in my life in 1972 in my first marriage to Janet. In Jewish weddings, and this was very much a large Jewish wedding, there is a moment when the bride and bridegroom get up and they dance on their own in front of nearly a thousand people to some music that they've chosen. And this was what we chose.

Presenter13:38

The opening of The Godfather Wolfs, composed by Nino Rota for the film The Godfather, and memories for you, Michael Green, of your marriage to Janet Wolfson, the daughter of Lord Wolfson of Gus, great universal stores. A marriage everybody approved of, by the same. I mean, you'd known each other at the synagogue, and the two families came together and so on. Of course, people have sought to say since then that that connection, that business connection, as well as family connection, was behind your early success. Is that fair?

Michael Green14:06

I think some of it's fair. There's no question about it. I met a lot of people. I saw life at a certain level that I had not seen before. Living in an area where you meet certain people, particularly businessmen, you listen to the conversation around the Friday night dinner table. I learnt a lot. I state quite unequivocally for the record, no money ever changed hands. I wasn't backed.

Michael Green14:32

I wasn't supported in any way by either my father-in-law or my wife.

Presenter14:36

You got the name Carlton though from Gus, didn't you?

Michael Green14:38

We got the I paid for that £400,000. It was undoubtedly the most expensive deal I'd ever done in my life.

Presenter14:44

So you were in printing in the beginning, you were in direct mail, you were into new technology quite early on, weren't you?

Michael Green14:47

Three?

Michael Green14:50

Yes, I think I understood that employing large amounts of people gave you high fixed overheads. And if you could use people's brains and their knowledge to produce product, you would actually potentially have a more profitable business.

Presenter15:03

and you drove around in a primrose yellow e tie.

Michael Green15:06

I did, I'm afraid.

Presenter15:07

Are you there's been a stream of rather beautiful motor cars. It's obviously a weakness of yours, is it?

Michael Green15:12

I think when I was young I was a bit flash. I look at it now and I do cringe a bit.

Presenter15:17

Aren't you flash any more?

Michael Green15:18

I try not to be.

Presenter15:20

Breakout number four.

Michael Green15:21

Record number four's another very important moment in my life.

Michael Green15:26

In 1993, we started broadcasting as Carlton Television. There was this moment at midnight on December 31st, January the 1st, where the music, Simply the Best by Tina Turner, was playing and the last frame of Thames Television was coming off air and the first frame of Carlton was coming on air. And I actually have that photograph in we took a still of it and I have that in my office and it reminds me that this was the music playing when we first went on air.

Speaker 315:59

You simply

Speaker 316:18

Stop found your heart.

Speaker 316:22

I hang out every word they say

Presenter16:29

Ina Turner and Simply the Best and memories of that night at the end of'ninety two when Michael Green at last got what he really wanted, which is his hands on an I T V franchise.

Presenter16:39

The problem is that within the year, Carleton was being accused of not delivering what it had promised. Poor standards it was accused of by the authority. Glib, superficial are some of the adjectives that have been laid at its door since. How much does it worry you that Carleton has

Presenter16:54

Something of a down market image.

Michael Green16:57

It certainly worries me. Um sometimes it's very painful.

Presenter17:01

Two million pounds worth of paying as in the fee the fine for the connection.

Michael Green17:01

What too many

Michael Green17:03

As in the defined

Michael Green17:05

Yeah.

Michael Green17:06

We started?

Michael Green17:08

At a time when we were the f one of the new

Michael Green17:12

players in television in Britain after a broadcasting act that was not very popular.

Michael Green17:18

We went out and we made a load of programmes. I am very proud that we did.

Michael Green17:24

We could have sat on the sidelines. Some new entrants did. They hardly made any programmes. We made some good ones, we made some bad ones. But we actually made television programmes, and that is what our business is all about. Yeah.

Presenter17:39

Uh

Michael Green17:39

The criticisms get a lot of coverage. It's very good copy. We have won hundreds of awards. We've made thousands of hours of television programming.

Presenter17:49

But the connection won eight awards and then it turned out to be a fake. So awards don't mean anything, do they?

Michael Green17:51

So rewards don't

Michael Green17:53

Awards do mean something, especially to people that make the television programmes. That was something that we got wrong.

Presenter18:00

But the bottom line here is that inevitably, if your business is running television, then that's going to take precedence over quality. And I'm not saying when programme makers ran television, it was all that better. I mean, we know that there were a lot of mistakes made then. But nevertheless, the bottom line, your duty to your shareholders comes before the quality of your program. So it's bound to be that less quality programs are going to be made.

Michael Green18:24

I do not see the conflict.

Michael Green18:27

I would much rather compete going up market than down market. I would rather compete with the BBC than I would with Rupert Murdoch. Every morning when I we do every morning when I look at the ratings, I look at the BBC One, I don't look at Sky One, I don't look at satellite and satellite and cable are infinitesimal in terms of programmes, people watching them, in this country people like homemade British drama. Every night we win the ratings because of homemade programmes.

Speaker 218:37

But I

Presenter18:53

But if we might

Presenter18:56

You win the ratings because you're going for a mass audience. The minority programmes, cultural programmes, programmes that are less watched, which don't therefore deliver what your advertisers want, don't get made. That's the point, isn't it? Quality programmes are not being made.

Michael Green19:09

Body break

Michael Green19:11

I am very proud of Inspector Morse. It is a quality programme. I am very proud of Kavanagh Bramwell. I am very proud of I think Coronation Street is an extremely well made soup. It just because something's popular does not mean to say it is bad quality.

Presenter19:26

No, of course not. But it means that you're going to be more tabloid than broadsheet, to use the newspaper analogy, doesn't it? Inevitably, because you want a big mass audience for your for your programme, so that your advertisers will give you money.

Michael Green19:38

I just don't accept that you're using tabloid as though there's something wrong with being popular. I believe that we, who pay £400 million a year to the government in Treasury payments, special taxes, have to produce a fare that is popular with a large amount of people. It does not mean to say it isn't very good quality.

Presenter20:01

But isn't that why, just to continue the point, why Newser Ten has been moved to make room for uninterrupted feature films which will get a mass audience, so the provision of quality information at a peak time has had to go by the board?

Michael Green20:14

But you see, this provision of quality is a very important point. The company that makes the early evening news, the company that makes the Channel four news, the company that makes Channel Five news, the company that makes the big breakfast news, is called ITN.

Michael Green20:28

It is the same quality.

Presenter20:30

And you're in business to make money, and it's a business, first of all, before it is a programme-making setup.

Michael Green20:36

But our business is to satisfy our customers.

Michael Green20:39

If we were only intent on making money, we may not have a business.

Presenter20:45

Record number five.

Michael Green20:47

I'd like the intomezzo from Cavalier Drusticana. I think it's a lovely piece of music, but it it is actually from uh the film Raging Bull, and it reminds me uh very much of my boys. I've got three sons uh as well as two daughters, and

Michael Green21:01

For some reason my boys like to fight me they just enjoy boxing.

Presenter22:03

The orchestra of La Scala Milan, conducted by Georges Pretre, playing part of the intomezzo from Mascagni's Cavalleria Rusticana.

Presenter22:11

And now digital television, Michael, the the future as you see it. A strategic inflection point, they call it in the business. What does that mean in words of one syllable?

Michael Green22:20

Something major is happening.

Michael Green22:24

The automobile is invented, people can travel by air. This is going to be a fundamental change to what we have in our home, the way we buy certain products and what is available to us.

Presenter22:38

And just so people are clear, you're at Loggerheads with Rupert Murdoch. He offers Sky Digital via the satellite through a dish. You offer it terrestrially on digital through the ordinary television aerial. But you're done for now, aren't you? Because he's pulled the ultimate marketing ploy. He's giving away the set top box that you need to receive it.

Michael Green22:56

I won't go into our future marketing plans, but as we speak at the moment, we're giving our boxes away, providing you buy a television set for £200.

Michael Green23:04

He had to give boxes away because all the new televisions, the integrated televisions, will have the conditional access system already built in. Those are just beginning to come into the shops. So our box is being built into the television set.

Presenter23:19

So he's doing this out of weakness, not out of strength, is he?

Michael Green23:22

He's doing it because he can see that people will not buy his box going forward. It doesn't mean to say he's weak. He's got a great product, he's got a great brand, he's a huge marketing machine that should never be underestimated.

Presenter23:33

And it's a brilliant marketing ploy, just the same as reducing the price of the Times, isn't it? Anybody who mixes it with Murdoch rarely comes up smiling, you know that.

Michael Green23:43

Well, I think the Telegraph is still actually doing quite well. And yes, you have some tough times ahead of you. But BSB disappeared. He ate them up, didn't he? Competition stimulates the market. The best thing that ever happened to Coca-Cola was Pepsi-Cola. Murdoch used to be our partner in OnDigital. I know that he likes our business. I know he wanted a piece of it. The regulator stopped him. There's no doubt in my mind that we can be the popular mass television station.

Michael Green24:13

B Sky B can be a highly profitable

Michael Green24:17

Player where if you want a satellite dish you can get two hundred channels.

Presenter24:21

But how long can you last throwing money into something that's not making a profit? How many years have you planned for? Because you need two million people to take up on digital. How many have you got?

Michael Green24:32

We don't throw money, we invest money. We have publicly said that we hope to break even within five years. We need two million subscribers to break even. And how many have you got at the moment? We've announced that in the first three months, we had one hundred ten thousand.

Presenter24:42

And how many have you got at the moment?

Michael Green24:46

We will announce our figures every quarter.

Presenter24:48

A hundred and ten thousand. So that would easily take you five years before you see any profit at all.

Michael Green24:49

Public.

Michael Green24:53

When you say any profit, if you look at mobile telephones, if you look at investments in the Internet, building up a subscriber base, having several million subscribers is a huge value. I mean, I I'd like to know your definition of the word profit. In cash flow terms, we will be generating cash much earlier than the five years.

Presenter25:12

But we're talking about making the kind of big money that you eventually want to make, which is what you went into it for. Now if Murdoch has come up with a marketing ploy like this, it's surely going to indent the take-up of people for on digital. And therefore, it's not going to be five years, it could be seven years before you get into profit.

Michael Green25:28

I believe that mister Murdoch giving away free boxes is expanding the market. I believe that every time he runs an ad saying go digital, we are benefiting.

Presenter25:39

But I bet you didn't feel stimulated when you heard what he was doing. I I bet you felt deeply pained.

Michael Green25:44

I felt deeply pained the way there was a short-term reaction. I am absolutely not surprised.

Presenter25:48

Yeah.

Michael Green25:51

it went down seven percent. Our our if I one day when you look at the minutes of our meetings, we completely anticipated that this would happen. There is no surprise in us to the fact that he has to give away his boxes.

Presenter26:05

Is this what you enjoy, then, or is this very, very painful?

Michael Green26:10

I thoroughly enjoy it, and yes, it is very painful.

Presenter26:13

How can it be both? How can you do both?

Michael Green26:15

Because that's the excitement and stimulation of business. You know, y y you can't continually go up. You have to see you make mistakes, things go wrong, you get very angry, you get angry with your colleagues. That's the nature of progress. Record number six.

Michael Green26:31

I'd like um la boheme um your tiny hand is frozen um

Michael Green26:37

Tessa, my wife, has really introduced me to opera. Um we joke about this because Tessa is a little larger than me and her hand is not exactly tiny. I just think it's the most beautiful music.

Speaker 327:01

Switch by hair's on

Speaker 327:34

Love the old peace.

Presenter27:42

Luciano Pavarotti as Rodolfo singing Cai Gielli da Manina, Your Tiny Hand is Frozen, from Act one of Puccini's La Boheme, with the Berlin Philharmonic conducted by Herbert von Carrion. You have two daughters in their twenties, Michael, by your first marriage, and three young sons by your second to Tessa. How do you think you rate as a father?

Michael Green28:03

I I I see my girls I don't see my boys a lot, but I see my girls a lot, and I think that that's terribly important that you keep a dialogue going. They no longer live at home, but

Michael Green28:13

They they can still bring me down to earth often. Uh they tell me many things that others don't and I'm I'm very happy with my relationship.

Presenter28:22

They're not frightened of you. Lot of people are frightened of you.

Michael Green28:23

Touch it.

Michael Green28:25

I hear that, but definitely not my girls and like... People who work for you.

Presenter28:27

The people who work for you, it's sometimes said, are frightened of you.

Michael Green28:31

I'm direct. I am absolutely clear in what I think and what I want, and that does worry people to begin with. But I've got a management team that's been with me for a long time, apart from our new chief executive.

Presenter28:47

Yeah.

Michael Green28:47

Stuffer fools.

Presenter28:48

You don't take

Michael Green28:48

Yeah. Isn't it?

Presenter28:49

Yeah.

Michael Green28:50

The shortest distance between two points is straight, and I believe that strongly.

Presenter28:54

How do you relax?

Michael Green28:57

I play bridge.

Presenter28:58

For money?

Michael Green28:59

Yes.

Presenter29:00

Big money?

Michael Green29:00

Yes.

Presenter29:01

Thousands?

Michael Green29:02

Big money.

Presenter29:04

Why does that relax you?

Michael Green29:06

Because when you're concentrating on bridge, you can't really think about anything else. It's a little like fishing, which I'm a terrible fisherman, but I fish a little as well. You just you're concentrating on the bridge. I play at a men-only club, which is quite extraordinary. And I it's a just a totally different part of your day. I do it once a week, and I thoroughly enjoy it.

Presenter29:28

Record number seven.

Michael Green29:30

Record number seven is a piece of music that I was introduced to by a guy called Eric Sharp, Lord Sharp.

Michael Green29:36

He was the first non-executive director at Carlton.

Michael Green29:40

He really took me from being an owner-occupier.

Michael Green29:44

to running a large public company. When I met him, I thought nonexecutors were a waste of time and nobody that knew something about the business should be on the board.

Michael Green29:54

Well, he really taught me about bigger business. He was a brilliant, brilliant individual. But he he taught me about long term planning. He taught me about strategic inflection points. And he introduced me to Madam Butterfly.

Presenter31:10

Mirilla Freini singing Un Bell di Vedremo Some day he'll come all one fine day from Puccini's Madam Butterfly with the Vienna Philemonic conducted by Herbert von Carrion. Michael Greene on a desert island I can't see. I mean, he's a city boy. Could you coke? Could you hack him?

Michael Green31:26

Well, um I admit I was certainly brought up in Baker Street and that's the wonderful thing about having spent all my life so far in a city and in a metropolis. I've now discovered the country and I have a home in the country. You're laughing. But I love the country. I have sheep, I have cattle, I am breeding, I've got some wonderful belted galloways and I'm certain that the next phase in my life I'm going to spend more and more time enjoying the countryside.

Presenter31:50

But sitting alone on a beach, looking back across it all, if you had to do that to morrow, what what would you think? How would you rate yourself, I suppose I'm asking, in terms of where you've come from and what you've achieved?

Michael Green32:04

Well, my grandparents were immigrants and they came from Russia with nothing. They landed at the East End and they managed to move over to St John's Wood. That was a long journey. I had huge advantages and I've built a business.

Michael Green32:20

I think what I've achieved is something that's going to last. I really still when I turn on the television and I see one of our programmes, when I see our name, I feel absolutely great. I I think to myself, gosh, I had a part in that.

Michael Green32:33

I've achieved something. And I die to morrow, that continues.

Presenter32:38

Last record

Michael Green32:40

The last record is Jerusalem.

Michael Green32:44

Um I visited Jerusalem for every year for fifteen years. Uh I would go at Passover time. So it's it's a magical city. It's it's it's for any religion, it's a magical city. So the the the music reminds me first of Jerusalem, the city.

Michael Green33:01

I'm a Jew, I must remember my heritage. I think those that

Michael Green33:05

forget their heritage, are doomed.

Michael Green33:08

But I'm also British and I've done incredibly well in this country and therefore I like the combination of the fact that this is a poem, this is about the North, this is about this is also chariots of fire, this is about an outsider, a Jew again, competing in the Olympics. It's got so many wonderful connotations for me and I love the music.

Speaker 333:59

Uh

Speaker 334:03

Please forget.

Speaker 334:10

Oh, save my life.

Presenter34:31

Jerusalem, sung by the Ambrosian singers, directed by John McCarthy. If you could only take one of those eight records, Michael.

Michael Green34:38

Definitely Jerusalem.

Michael Green34:39

Yeah.

Presenter34:39

Because it's got it all.

Michael Green34:40

What's got it all?

Presenter34:41

What about your book?

Michael Green34:43

I'd like the complete works of Sigmund Freud.

Michael Green34:47

My mother wanted me to be a psychologist. I read probably half of them. He writes as a barrister. He puts each case to you. It he he writes so beautifully. I know a lot of it's been

Michael Green34:57

moved on, but he was a strategic inflection point.

Presenter35:01

And your luxury.

Presenter35:04

But I'd like a television.

Michael Green35:06

If that's if if I wasn't allowed a television, I'd have to take a box of cigars.

Presenter35:10

But you can have a digital television. You can have a digital television. Yeah, no, why not?

Michael Green35:12

I can have a digital television? Yeah, no, no. Why not?

Presenter35:15

Michael Greene, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Lester Island discs.

Michael Green35:19

Thank you.

Speaker 235:28

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co. uk slash radio four.