Richard Dunwoody

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety nine, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My castaway this week is a jockey. Acknowledged as the most complete jockey of his generation, it's been said that he'd gallop over his own grandmother to win a race. Luckily, there's been no need for that in a career which has seen him win the Grand National twice, as well as the Irish Grand National on Desert Orchid, and hold the title of champion jockey three times in the last six years. He gave up his A levels to become a jockey, and when a trainer took a chance on him at a Hereford meeting, he won four races, launching a career in which even his greatest admirers admit his intensity and passion for winning can be frightening. He is Richard Dunwoody. Richard, it'll be your fifteenth Grand National on Saturday, if you count the one that didn't really happen. Do you still get the same thrill of anticipation as you did the first time, or does it fade?

Richard Dunwoody1:18

I do, so I'm really looking forward to the race. The butterflies are starting to build and it's a great race to ride in. You've got a great challenge. The thirty fence is four point five miles and it's unique.

Presenter1:31

Ha hasn't it got easier over the years because they've altered the jump?

Richard Dunwoody1:35

It has got a li little bit easier, about four or five, possibly more than that, years ago.

Richard Dunwoody1:42

They made beaches a little bit easier. I was at the time against the changes.

Presenter1:47

But you like it, Tough.

Richard Dunwoody1:49

I prefer a little bit more of a challenge. And unfortunately for me actually, if they hadn't made the changes, I think my second national winner would have probably fallen at Beecher's. As it was, he actually went down on one knee.

Presenter2:00

But I th it makes it less likely that a a real outsider wins that I mean we all remember winning on a little Pol Vir, I remember at something like forty to one

Richard Dunwoody2:08

Well the the days of Foynaven and uh the Great Race when when they all they all fell at the smallest fence on the on the course and Foyne Avon hundreds one.

Presenter2:17

So it it takes the thrill out of it in one sense, although obviously one appreciates it's got to be so.

Richard Dunwoody2:21

I think so. I think the more of the class horses now have have a have a greater chance.

Presenter2:25

Unless the going is unusual or really bad.

Richard Dunwoody2:28

Going is an extreme, very soft as it as it was last year. I think only about five or six got round in the end. But actually it was the first and second were very good horses.

Presenter2:34

Mm.

Presenter2:37

But you still get that w you know, whatever happens, the cavalry charge at the beginning. Is that the most dangerous moment?

Richard Dunwoody2:42

They come in, the stewards every year give us a strict talking to before the race and always say to us, don't go too quick down to the first first fence and what do we do? We charge down down to it like the charge the light brigade.

Presenter2:55

Well I charge the light brigade.

Richard Dunwoody3:03

It depends. One year I was s I was so revved up. I I don't think I actually breathed until I jumped the canal turn, which is about the eighth eighth fence. Um and I had to actually say to myself consciously, Look, just settle down and and breathe.

Presenter3:17

So who are you on this year?

Richard Dunwoody3:18

Call it a day.

Richard Dunwoody3:20

Very much looking forward to David Nicholson trains it.

Presenter3:22

Have you chosen him or has he chosen you?

Richard Dunwoody3:24

Well, it was a horse I I rode a few weeks ago, Utokster in the Midlands Grand National, ran very well there, finished second. So I chose him.

Presenter3:32

Right, I'm gonna talk about his chances later, but let's have your first record. What is it?

Richard Dunwoody3:36

Yes, the first record is The Saw Doctors and Clare Island.

Presenter3:40

And why do you want that?

Richard Dunwoody3:41

Uh well the Saw Doctors actually are are are great friends of uh basically of racing. In ninety three when I won my first championship they came and played for me. Uh they know a lot of people in racing. Uh they follow a bit of the r the racing and uh now they've got a great great following around their concerts in in England and Ireland whenever whenever they play from from the racing fraternity.

Speaker 44:10

Will you meet me on Clare Island?

Speaker 44:15

Summer stars are in the sky

Speaker 44:21

Get the fairy out from Runa

Speaker 44:26

And wave all our cares goodbye.

Presenter4:31

Claire Island from Saw Doctors, who who remind you, you were telling me, Richard Dunwoody, of a a colleague, Richard Davies, who in fact was killed in a fall from a horse a few years ago.

Richard Dunwoody4:41

Yes, Richard was a great friend of us all in in racing. He was a s smashing lad. And he was one of the the biggest followers of of the Saw Doctors. It it brings back some great memories of Richard.

Presenter4:53

To be blunt, it's amazing more jockeys aren't killed, isn't it?

Richard Dunwoody4:57

It is. Uh Richard was killed in in basically a simple fall. Horse went to the first. It happens nearly every day of the week, and unfortunately um Richard didn't didn't survive it. Even on the flat there's some very bad injuries. A girl apprentice was killed in Hong Kong a couple of weeks ago.

Presenter5:08

Huh.

Presenter5:14

But how close have you come to it? You must have had some of the things that I had to do.

Richard Dunwoody5:16

Um we've we've had some bad falls. I've broke my sternum. I've got an injury at the moment from nerves in in the neck. Uh but I've been very, very lucky. I think w we've someone counted up the other day, probably I've had over six hundred falls in my career, so

Richard Dunwoody5:32

You ha you you just hope for the luck.

Presenter5:34

But this last one that's injured your right arm, you you took a long time off after that one, didn't you?

Richard Dunwoody5:38

I had a fall last May and I was out for about three months at that time.

Presenter5:43

That's the longest you've ever done.

Richard Dunwoody5:44

The longest I've been out. I've had a few falls through the autumn. Already this season I've probably had forty f about forty, fifty falls. And then I had one in January and the problem has reoccurred. It's not very easy, but we're getting away with it.

Presenter5:59

It's your right arm, and it's it it's weakened it, has it?

Richard Dunwoody6:03

It's yeah, it's it's not helping. I'm physio nearly every day and um it's gradually get getting better.

Presenter6:07

It's

Presenter6:08

I read somewhere that it was it was withering.

Richard Dunwoody6:10

There there is muscle wastage in it, yes. It's not a help.

Presenter6:14

But there've been times in the past when you've, you know, had some pretty nasty injuries and you've gone back and ridden again against doctors' orders. I why do you do that?

Richard Dunwoody6:23

Um, I don't know. There was one year, I think, at Liverpool actually. I think I had four ended up with four winners and had six falls at the meeting in three days. I wasn't carried out of the the Wayne Room after the last race, but uh I th probably should have been.

Presenter6:37

But there was another time I think uh w when you fell, when somebody came to help you and you told them in no uncertain terms to go away.

Richard Dunwoody6:43

That was another time at at Kempton actually, yes.

Richard Dunwoody6:47

Horse stood on me. I was actually riding a horse called Seymour Business, who won this year's Gold Cup. I fell in the racing post chase there. Another horse stood on me behind following. That's uh wasn't uh wasn't feeling very very good at the time. And uh the ambulance man tried to take my uh colours off and my body protector. We all wear a body protector, foam body protector.

Presenter6:57

Hmm.

Richard Dunwoody7:09

Yeah.

Presenter7:09

It doesn't protect much, does it?

Richard Dunwoody7:09

Doesn't protect much, technically enough that time. I took a little bit of exception to this and told him maybe not in the politest terms to go away.

Presenter7:20

But it's pain, I mean it's naked pain, isn't it?

Richard Dunwoody7:22

Yes, you're not you're not basically with it. I I ended up I was in intensive care for

Richard Dunwoody7:26

For a couple of days afterwards, but.

Presenter7:28

Hmm.

Presenter7:29

And then you get up and you go back for more. I mean, what makes you do that?

Richard Dunwoody7:29

And you get up and

Richard Dunwoody7:31

I mean, what makes you do that? A couple of weeks later, we had Charlton, but you've got to. You've got to keep going.

Presenter7:37

Second record

Richard Dunwoody7:38

David Bowie, uh Life on Mars, reminds me very much of uh my school days at at Rehncombe College and near Sarncester. This uh evokes quite a lot of uh memories f from from school.

Speaker 47:52

Wonder if you'll never know

Speaker 47:56

Who's done the best selling show?

Speaker 48:00

Is their life on Mars?

Presenter8:21

David Bowie and Life on Mars and memories of school which you left Richard Dunwoody after a year of A-levels to follow your start of the race course. Was there trouble from teachers and parents when you wanted to?

Richard Dunwoody8:32

Uh there was a little at the time, yes. It uh caused a little bit of a stir in the family.

Presenter8:36

Did they try to stop you?

Richard Dunwoody8:37

Did they try to stop?

Richard Dunwoody8:38

Well, I think my mother would have liked me to have taken A levels and maybe eventually uh become a vet. But to actually been in college for six or seven years, however long it takes, it wasn't very appealing at the time.

Presenter8:51

So what was the appeal? You were riding out already, weren't you, in Newmarket?

Richard Dunwoody8:54

Um, yes, we moved to Newmarket when I was twelve and basically every school holiday I was home every day I'd be riding out.

Presenter9:02

What was it that hooked you? What do you love about it?

Richard Dunwoody9:05

I suppose well since I was probably two or three before I could remember I was I was sat on a pony and grew up with them in Ireland. My father trained. Then we moved to England, uh Gloucestershire and we managed to stud there. I had my pony or I had to ride it over every day. Then we went went to Newmarket. I couldn't take my pony with me, but uh I just enjoyed being in a in a stable environment and with horses. I I love horses.

Presenter9:29

But what's the magic?

Richard Dunwoody9:31

A lot of the magic and you as you become older you tend and as a jockey you don't actually get that close now to horses. We're not with them in the stables, we don't look after them. Um but at that time was it was the actual it was the love of the horse.

Presenter9:44

You sound as if you're less sentimental about them these days.

Richard Dunwoody9:47

It's it's just the way it's evolved as as a jockey. A horse possibly like like Desert Orchid, I would have sat on him once at the beginning of the season, uh to r ride him what we call his schooling, to practise over fences at home, uh um David Ellisworth's where he was trained. And then you might sit on him for probably ten minutes every time you actually ride him in a race, and that might only be five times a season.

Presenter10:12

But how do you feel about him? I mean, you could still feel quite emotional about him, but he you sound to me as if you feel they're more of a means to an end these days.

Richard Dunwoody10:19

A little bit, but you become more attached to some horses than others. Um I ride a l I ride a a lovely old horse at S at Simon Dyers in Epsom, a horse called Chief Song.

Richard Dunwoody10:28

Been lucky enough to win some good races on him, but uh he's a great character.

Presenter10:31

But your first horse was a donkey.

Richard Dunwoody10:33

A donkey called Seamus. Seamus. Yes, my father, supposedly, I can't remember it. My father put me on a donkey one day, was walking through the fields and he went back to close the gate and let me go. And so the donkey rushed off across the field and I was hanging on to him and eventually fell off.

Presenter10:33

A donkey called Seamus. Yes.

Richard Dunwoody10:53

I think my father came up to me, so the story goes, and expected me to be in floods of tears, and no, I had a big smile on my face and got up and went, Daddy, I fall off like a jockey and I think I've been doing it ever since.

Presenter11:06

Record number three.

Richard Dunwoody11:08

Again, this one uh reminds me of the school days, and it's Vienna by Ultravox.

Speaker 411:14

Uh

Speaker 411:14

Oh no man

Speaker 411:15

Lion means nothing to me

Speaker 411:22

This means nothing to me

Presenter11:38

Vienna by Ultravox. What was the first race you ever won, Richard? You must remember.

Richard Dunwoody11:43

The first race uh was actually at the the local point of point, uh the old Barks. It was the members' race, and uh the the mayor was Game Trust, and she actually took me about three or four weeks later. Um I had my first winter under rules, or we say on a on a proper race course, was at Cheltenham.

Presenter11:59

That was what, nineteen eighty-three? Can you still remember the thrill of it? I mean, the first time you actually, you know, right out there up front must have been a very good point.

Richard Dunwoody12:01

Eighty three, yes.

Richard Dunwoody12:06

And right?

Richard Dunwoody12:07

There was certainly a a big thrill, but it was an even it was the last race on a on an evening meeting and it was uh it was almost dark by the time um sh she'd come in and we we got home. It was about ten, eleven o'clock, so there was very little time to to celebrate and I had to be up to to to work in Captain Foster's the next day at probably I was up at half five, six o'clock the next morning. So uh it was back to back to the job really.

Presenter12:32

at Captain Forster's who was a trainer, who, in fact, the following year.

Presenter12:36

put you on about seven horses in in in one meeting. How did that come about?

Richard Dunwoody12:41

Um Huell Davis was his stable jockey at the at the time in I think it was March 84 and Huell had a had a terrible fall at Doncaster. Um he was nearly clinically declared dead and four weeks later he was back riding. But during that time he was off, there was a day at Hereford and actually the captain had about three or four runners and I managed to get two or three spare rides.

Richard Dunwoody13:05

and he thought there was no way I'd e I'd even get through the car, never mind ride all these horses.

Presenter13:09

He said to his horror he found it.

Richard Dunwoody13:10

I find I had seven seven and seven rise.

Presenter13:13

Hmm.

Richard Dunwoody13:13

I think I got beat on one and then the next three won and I uh eventually four won. I went to the last race and I just lost my claim. We as a young jockey you have a a claim which means you the horse doesn't actually carry the weight but has an allowance of seven pounds and my seven pounds allowance was then cut to four pounds. Um and I think that three pound probably made the difference because I was beaten by a neck in the last race so it cost me the fifth winner.

Presenter13:37

Uh

Presenter13:39

So you got four winners, you got one second, and I think you got two thirds as well, didn't you?

Richard Dunwoody13:43

And two-thirds, yeah.

Presenter13:44

But but the point is, you're on good horses because you know, the the chief jockey was away, and I think another one, Bob Champion, was supposed to ride and he was somewhere else because there were other meetings on that day. So you got, as a you know, a complete ingenue to get on some of the best horses. And that's what it's all about, isn't it?

Richard Dunwoody14:01

It is.

Presenter14:01

What percentage is it horse and what percentage is it rider?

Richard Dunwoody14:04

Um I was a quite a large percentage horse. It's the things to make sure that your horse that you're riding.

Presenter14:07

How about that?

Presenter14:09

That's

Richard Dunwoody14:13

You put it in the race, you give it a winning chance, and you don't make mistakes, and it's the jockey who makes the least mistakes, rides the most winners.

Presenter14:21

So, being a successful jockey is all about getting the right rides. How do you ensure you get the right rides? That's a business.

Richard Dunwoody14:27

I have a very good agent at the moment, Robert Parsons. Works very, very hard. There's a lot of competitions for these spare rides. A lot of jockeys are attached to two yards, but then they might have to go to another meeting or they may be injured. So it's down to the agent to be very sharp, very observant.

Presenter14:46

To stay across it the whole time. But that's because you're now freelance. You have been attached to yards before that, haven't you? But I suppose you can't become freelance until everybody wants you. It's a very circular business.

Richard Dunwoody14:57

It is a circular thing. I was um after Captain Foster, I then went to David Nicholson. I rode for him for seven or eight years as stable jockey. Then when Peter Scudamore uh retired, we had two years with Martin Pipe, who is one of the greatest trainers. His horses are very, very fit and places them very well.

Presenter15:16

If you were to divide the success of a horse again in percentage terms between horse, trainer and jockey, how does it divide?

Richard Dunwoody15:26

It's it's a team effort. It's down to the stable lads, the people that look after them at uh at home. Um it it is very, very much a team effort.

Presenter15:35

But if it's eighty or ninety percent horse really, not much of a estimate.

Richard Dunwoody15:38

Basically, the trainer and the stable staff have to get that horse fit. If it's not fit, it won't win a race.

Presenter15:45

So, what are we saying? 80% horse, 10% trainer, 10% jockey. Settle for the corporate.

Richard Dunwoody15:47

So jockey.

Presenter15:52

Record number four.

Richard Dunwoody15:54

My fourth record is Pavarotti and Nessendorma. It's one of the the great football anthems. Something I've been able to go to a little bit more over the last three or four years. I've been down to Chelsea a few times lately and I really enjoy the football.

Speaker 416:10

But every history I use I pray. I left souls of the world.

Presenter16:17

Horace soul.

Speaker 416:36

Oh try

Presenter17:03

Yeah.

Presenter17:09

Luciano Pavarotti singing Nesundorma from Puccini's Turundot with the London Philharmonic conducted by Zubin Meater. So, Richard Dunwoody, this competitive instinct. You'd ride over your own grandmother to win a race, they say. Passion for winning can be frightening. Has it frightened you?

Richard Dunwoody17:26

Uh it gets very all consuming sometimes and especially I'd say four or five years ago when we were involved in championship struggles, uh it was the only thing that mattered to me was to win the next race and wars would be going on around the world and

Richard Dunwoody17:44

It meant nothing, all you were concentrating on, all you were focused on was riding the next next winner.

Presenter17:50

This was you mainly against your arch rival Adrian Maguire.

Richard Dunwoody17:55

Yes, we had that season. The first championship was won when Peter Scudemore retired. I then moved from David Nickerson to Martin Pipe in order that I may become champion again. Unfortunately things went wrong and Martin's horse has had a virus that year and we had a very slow start. Adrian went about forty clear of me, but then we slowly reeled him in. Then leading up to Cheltenham, which is our major meeting, Adrian decided to come my inside going to a hurdle. I took exception to this, moved across to stop him from going there and unfortunately his horse ran out and I ended up with a two week ban which meant I I wasn't around for Cheltenham.

Presenter18:36

You squeezed him, you railed him. Squeezed him out, yes. I mean, it gets very nasty out there, doesn't it? Let's make no mistake.

Richard Dunwoody18:38

Squeeze them out.

Richard Dunwoody18:42

It becomes very intense. It's um.

Presenter18:42

Uh

Richard Dunwoody18:46

No, I hopefully try and disassociate myself from that. But uh at the time we were we were very caught up in it or we were very very wound up, both of us. We were very wound up.

Presenter18:56

We were very wound up.

Richard Dunwoody18:59

It was really it was it was more I felt it would play in my favour. I went to consult Peter Terry, who's one of the the top sports psychologists and worked with the England teams. He said I was worrying too much what my rival was was doing, w the races he was riding, the races he was winning, and to actually focus on my my own job. And really a lot of it was common sense, but it it needed saying to me.

Presenter19:24

And it helped in the end, did it?

Richard Dunwoody19:26

They did. I was uh I say it was lucky. I actually felt very sorry for Adrian. We were running all all over the country through the month of May leading up to the end of our season. Uh helicopters left, right and centre and uh up and down the country, and uh we beat him by three.

Presenter19:41

But I thought you got into uh another punch up recently with Mick Fitzgerald.

Richard Dunwoody19:45

Yes, well that was really it was just a bad day. I was riding a horse called Morborough in the first race and I'd been carrying my injury. Up to then it it hadn't affected me. But in this race it it did. It let me down my arm let me down and I felt pretty aggrieved about it. My horse fell at the last upsides. The next race I think I ended up going up Michael's inside to a hurdle and got there and there was no problem. Then in the third race I was riding one of the favourites in the race but we'd come into contact again Mick Fitzgerald, Timmy Murphy and myself and after basically after that race it it all flared up. Michael rang me the next day and

Presenter19:45

Um

Presenter20:24

Huh.

Richard Dunwoody20:27

He said, I wish it never had happened, but in a way it's it's it's better almost something like that if it does come out of the time and it's it's not simmering. I think that's when it leads to not a good atmosphere.

Presenter20:32

It's not

Presenter20:37

You've got to clear the air at some point.

Richard Dunwoody20:38

Next record.

Speaker 420:50

Yeah.

Speaker 420:54

Yeah.

Speaker 421:00

In the ride, keep your brains on the floor. These are the days and never rains but it falls.

Speaker 421:10

In a copy.

Presenter21:16

Queen and David Bowie under pressure, and memories you were telling me of of letting your hair down before Christmas, but on Christmas Day you have to be on your best behaviour because Boxing Day can be a big day in the racing calendar.

Richard Dunwoody21:27

It is a very big day. Last Christmas I was due to ride at Weatherby for a change. I we usually go to uh Kempton to spend quite a lot of the day in the sauna on Christmas Day. Didn't uh go mad on the on the on the turkey and and trimmings and um

Richard Dunwoody21:43

Got to Wetherby, the ground it rained quite heavily overnight and the ground had become too soft and thirty minutes before the race he was uh taken out.

Presenter21:52

So you waste qui, as you call it, this is this sort of not eating or almost not eating.

Richard Dunwoody21:56

We call it wasting, as we say, whether it's a it's a wasting as far as weight's concerned or a waste of time. I don't know.

Richard Dunwoody22:03

Sit down.

Presenter22:03

But you sometimes must feel pretty weak by the time. If you're trying to get down, you know, if you're trying to remove the last sort of four or five ounces, you're going to be pretty weak by the time you get down.

Richard Dunwoody22:12

It's something we've we've I've done for seventeen years now, uh so I'm used to sitting in this owner having to lose three or four pound.

Presenter22:21

Kevasaura at home, then?

Richard Dunwoody22:21

Do you ever saw it at home then? I used to, and now I um tend to get in the bath and don't have to have it too hot. Uh

Presenter22:29

You just lie in a hot bath.

Richard Dunwoody22:30

Line a hot bath, uh take the newspapers in, then they're not in a very good state afterwards.

Richard Dunwoody22:35

But as I say, you can lose three or four pound.

Presenter22:37

I've also read about you sitting, you know, actually at the course in front of an electric fire for the past for the last hour.

Richard Dunwoody22:43

Most courses nowadays, thankfully, have saunas, which is is great. I think they they should. There is one place um Exeter actually where there is a gas heater and it's not very comfortable. We've we've been on to them for a long time to get a sauna.

Presenter22:59

It also matters, of course, terribly how heavy the saddle is, or how light the saddle is, or the silks, you know, or the colours.

Richard Dunwoody23:04

Yes, it does. Everything every ounce is is critical. And I've got one saddle which is basically the size of Frisbee, and would hardly weigh m more than that.

Presenter23:15

And what about the gear?

Richard Dunwoody23:16

And the gear is very important. There's some very good light colours that we get nowadays.

Richard Dunwoody23:21

Made in London.

Presenter23:22

Lightweight

Richard Dunwoody23:22

Lightweight. Very lightweight, and I um would appreciate all owners and trainers to get those colours and not use womans, which uh Captain Foster always used to use. Woomans that weighed about a pound and a half, and when when you came in, when they got wet, they'd be about three pound wet through.

Presenter23:38

And it takes another hour in the sauna to get the extra ounces off the window.

Richard Dunwoody23:40

It would take another hour.

Presenter23:43

So you can't enjoy Christmas Day, you're constantly obsessed with your weight, you're travelling to and from race meetings for ten months of the year, you live under great pressure, you're often injured. What effect does this have on your personal life?

Richard Dunwoody23:56

Personal life, I as I say, I've been being married to a lovely girl, Carol. We separated in ninety four. Uh still get on very well.

Presenter24:07

But was this kind of life to do with the breakdown of that mind?

Richard Dunwoody24:10

I would s I wouldn't like to blame horse racing uh completely on the breakdown of the marriage, but it didn't help.

Presenter24:19

Record number six.

Richard Dunwoody24:21

Yes, it's been a great interest of mine over the last, I'd say, four or five years. Formula One I've actually driven as well in Formula First. But I I love this record, it's The Chain by Fleetwood Mac.

Presenter25:02

The End of the Chain by Fleetwood Mac, the music used by BBC Television as the Grand Prix theme, and thoughts of your new life, Richard Dunwoody, behind a steering wheel as a racing driver. How much does it have in common with with a horse?

Richard Dunwoody25:13

I don't know about New Life, but it's it's great hobby. Wouldn't be the the least expensive, but no, we've had some great fun the last couple of years. I've driven Formula First. The injury got in the way last season, but it's it's been great fun seeing the sport at grassroots.

Presenter25:30

So there's speed and there's danger, but the car presumably doesn't have the same sense of self-preservation as a horse.

Richard Dunwoody25:36

No, it uh it doesn't. As I say, you can make a mistake on a horse and uh thankfully the horse will get you out of trouble. Sometimes you needn't make a misto mistake on a horse and it will fall. But uh if you lack concentration in a car your uh that tire wall comes up very, very quickly.

Presenter25:51

Have you crashed yet?

Richard Dunwoody25:52

Uh several times, yes.

Presenter25:54

Cloud.

Richard Dunwoody25:55

There was once at Goodwood which was a little bit scary because something w uh went on the steering Rose Joint gave. It was a little bit unnerving at the time.

Presenter26:05

Is this you paving the way for your retirement from the race course, finding a a substitute competitive sphere? Do you think?

Richard Dunwoody26:11

Uh, I would like to keep driving. I'd l um to be involved s in in some way. I'm not I'm not saying I'll ever be very, very good at it, but uh, it's on a Sunday afternoon, whatever, it's great to go down there and compete.

Presenter26:24

But um and I'm pushing you here thirty-five is knocking on for a jockey, isn't it? I mean I think Peter Scudemore retired at thirty-four, John Frankham at thirty-two. Could this be your last season?

Richard Dunwoody26:34

Um I h sincerely hope not. No, I feel fitter now than I was probably at twenty eight, twenty nine. It's really it's injuries permitting.

Presenter26:42

So how long can you go on?

Richard Dunwoody26:43

I'd say there's no reason why jockeys can't go until they're forty, at least. But is there.

Presenter26:48

But is there one big race you'd still like to win?

Richard Dunwoody26:50

Yes, there is there is one at at Cheltenham. I've managed to be placed in it. I've jumped the last fence upsizing it several times. He has yet to win it the championships.

Presenter27:01

Record number seven.

Richard Dunwoody27:03

Number seven is the theme from Champions, and this certainly will send a shiver down my spine.

Presenter27:10

Like

Richard Dunwoody27:10

It's played every year before and in the run up to the Grand National. We have televisions in the in the changing rooms and we're all watching the countdown to the national, and this invariably crops up sometime through the programme.

Presenter27:55

The Philharmonia Orchestra conducted by Carl Davis playing the theme from the film Champions, and it's shivering down your spine already. So give me the timetable. What time do you get to the Course on Saturday?

Richard Dunwoody28:06

Uh Saturday's a great great day. Um most jockeys will go good home.

Richard Dunwoody28:11

seven, eight o'clock and uh sit on the horse and just basically stretch their legs and

Presenter28:15

Do you try to ride in a race before the the big one?

Richard Dunwoody28:18

Um yes, there are t two or three races before the race and it's nice to have a ride in one of those races just to basically warm warm the muscles up and uh and get the eye in and get the focus.

Presenter28:29

But then coming up to the big one, what goes through your mind as you put your silks on and you pick up the saddle? How are you feeling?

Richard Dunwoody28:35

And they always it's it's an old saying how the quiet ones suddenly become a little bit louder and the the loud ones suddenly become a a little bit quiet and I think it does it works that way.

Presenter28:45

And then into the parade ring. I mean, you must feel very impatient by now.

Richard Dunwoody28:49

Yes, we've had our talk and we it's nice to actually get out into the parade ring, make very light conversation, I think, with the owners and trainer. And um it's nice to get on the horses back and get away and Count it down to the start.

Presenter29:05

But then there's that endless messing about when you know you can't line up in serried ranks'cause horses don't don't do that but you're turning around, sometimes facing the wrong way. I'm by that stage, just as as an onlooker, my heart is in my mouth. I feel ill.

Richard Dunwoody29:18

It's not very easy and uh it's very important that you you get a good break. I always try and be tracking a horse or close to horses that I feel are the better jumpers. I try and steer away from from horses that I know possibly go to these first two or three fences and might end up on the floor.

Presenter29:34

Because they're gonna knock you over.

Richard Dunwoody29:36

Um if you're yeah, if you're behind them then you you know you may you may be likely to to trip over them.

Presenter29:39

Yeah

Presenter29:41

The good ones stick together, try and find.

Richard Dunwoody29:43

Try to but the it never works. I always remember the first year I rode in the National there was a horse I'd I'd put the X to. Black Dot by was a horse called Solihove Spores. Sam Mooreshead was riding it and um I thought I'd keep away from him going to the first and suddenly this flash comes by we're about fifty yards away from the first, this flash comes past with yellow colours. It was Solihove Spores. He got to the first fence and fell. Luckily he went from left to right across me. I was very lucky not to be brought down.

Presenter30:11

The terrific surge of adrenaline. I mean, whatever the stewards have told you beforehand, the surge of adrenaline as you set off must be huge.

Richard Dunwoody30:17

It is offered. We cross the Mellon Road. There's a the tan where they put the tan down and.

Richard Dunwoody30:26

Yep, you g you get the horses basically you're you're focusing on that first fence so you want to get him back on his hocks, um so he jumps it well. But it's completely new to a lot of horses. They will only have have jumped regulation fences around the park courses. But this may be the first time they've seen gorse or or a spruce fence.

Richard Dunwoody30:44

And um they sometimes jump it too big and with the drop they'll then uh end up on the floor.

Presenter30:51

Terrifying. So do we put our money on you and call it a day this year or not?

Richard Dunwoody30:55

Uh well I'm I I was looking forward to it. And I think uh on his form he has a very good chance. He's never been round the course, uh but I would be hopeful for for a good ride from him.

Presenter31:05

Pretty much do we put our money on the nose or each?

Richard Dunwoody31:07

I go each way in the national. Definitely, I'm not a

Richard Dunwoody31:10

Uh jockeys are not allowed to bet anyway, but uh

Richard Dunwoody31:13

No, I would uh certainly.

Richard Dunwoody31:16

Uh advice each way betting.

Speaker 431:17

No.

Richard Dunwoody31:17

Sometimes you're better going on people's names or you like the look of the colours and invariably that those are more likely to win you money than anything else.

Presenter31:26

So it's get the pin out as usual.

Richard Dunwoody31:27

Get the pinide.

Presenter31:29

Last trick.

Richard Dunwoody31:31

The last record is Garth Brooks and the Dance, and it's um dedicated to someone who has been quite a large influence on on my life over the last three or four years, Emma Heanley.

Speaker 431:43

Glad I didn't know.

Speaker 431:47

We it all would in.

Speaker 431:50

The way it all would go.

Speaker 431:54

Uh

Speaker 431:55

I don't know.

Presenter31:56

We're not

Speaker 431:57

A better leftover chain.

Speaker 432:01

I could have missed the pain.

Speaker 432:05

But I'd a hate to meet

Speaker 432:08

The majority of the day

Presenter32:14

Garth Brooks and The Dance. So, Richard, which of those eight records would you need most on a desert island?

Richard Dunwoody32:20

I think the first one at the Saw Doctors in Clare Island.

Presenter32:24

What about your book? You've got the Bible and Shakspere waiting for you.

Richard Dunwoody32:28

To go with them I would take uh J. R. Tolkien, Lord of the Rings. Um it was a book I I read a long time ago at uh at school.

Richard Dunwoody32:37

I wouldn't say I'm the quickest reader in the world, so probably by the time I've finished it once I'm Be able to start all over again.

Presenter32:43

And your luxury.

Richard Dunwoody32:44

Luxury definitely ice cream, especially on a desert island.

Richard Dunwoody32:47

Ah, but I love it. I think I must be the only person in the middle of winter minus five degrees and walk into a garage and buy an ice cream. They look at me as if I'm mad.

Presenter32:56

Richard Dunwoody, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Richard Dunwoody33:00

Thank you, sir.

Presenter33:00

And good luck on Saturday.

Richard Dunwoody33:01

Thank you very much.

Speaker 233:10

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.