Maria Ewing

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety nine, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My Castaway this week is an opera singer. Born in Detroit of a Dutch mother and a father who was of Sioux Indian ancestry, she's known as a performer who can act as well as she can sing. At the age of eighteen, she met the American conductor James Levine, who became an important influence on her career. At 26, she made her debut at the Metropolitan Opera in New York, singing Carabino in the marriage of Figaro. But it was under another important man in her life, Peter Hall, that she achieved some of her greatest successes, including a controversial Carmen and a daring Salome. She's wowed them at Earl's Court and at the Proms in the Park, where she's been equally happy singing jazz and popular ballads as she is grand opera. Singing is the means, she says, but it's what you're delivering that really matters. She is Maria Ewing. And does it matter which you're delivering, Maria? Or don't you mind? I love them both. I always have. Obviously, classical music was the focus of my life for most of my years. But because the popular music was so much a part of life growing up in Detroit, I've always listened to it and thought, you know, there's something in me that must express this somehow. But that's part of the actress as well in you, isn't it? That you have to feel what you're singing about. Very much so. I think that's what it was like from the very beginning.

Maria Ewing1:44

But that

Presenter1:54

Then I be began singing in the school choir.

Presenter1:58

I felt very emotionally involved. I was always a bit.

Maria Ewing2:00

Yeah.

Presenter2:01

Emotional about everything. But it's interesting, isn't it? Simon Rattler said that you could have been an actress if you hadn't been a singer. Uh would you have liked to have been an actress? Were you pleased to go the other way? I've never thought about

Maria Ewing2:04

But it's interesting that it's

Maria Ewing2:08

You hadn't

Maria Ewing2:09

Would you have liked

Maria Ewing2:11

Yeah.

Presenter2:14

acting. I mean, if the right thing sort of came along, perhaps I would do it. Perhaps I would. But I I've never thought about that. I just did it. I just responded to the text and the

Maria Ewing2:24

On

Presenter2:26

The drama, just sort of instinctively. Because there are, as we know, a lot of great opera singers who can't act.

Maria Ewing2:32

Couldn't.

Presenter2:35

You know, it is possible, of course, to to see a Tosca who is perhaps rather large and a bit wooden, but somehow if she's got a beautiful voice and the music is wonderful, she can she can transcend all of that. Does it really matter if an opera singer can't act?

Maria Ewing2:42

Yeah.

Speaker 22:49

Yeah.

Maria Ewing2:49

Yeah.

Presenter2:51

Well, to some it doesn't matter the voice alone is enough.

Presenter2:56

It isn't easy to act.

Presenter2:59

as an opera singer.

Presenter3:01

Mainly because one is preoccupied with the vocal requirements. It's very, very difficult. It's hard. It is hard work. When you did Carmen in nineteen eighty five with Peter Hall, who was then your husband,

Maria Ewing3:08

It's hard work.

Maria Ewing3:14

Yes.

Presenter3:16

He said only a great actress could play her because you together you attempted to redefine her, didn't you? That that she was no longer just the tart with the heart, you know.

Presenter3:26

She was pretty controversial. Tell me about your interpretation of karma.

Speaker 23:26

It's pretty

Maria Ewing3:29

I'm gonna

Presenter3:32

I I don't know, you know, I never ha uh sort of had a a preconceived idea of of Carmen.

Presenter3:39

I think when you do a roll, what happens is that you

Presenter3:43

You are revealed in the character. You have to be. Oh dear. It doesn't mean you're all of these awful things. It doesn't mean you do all of these awful things or wonderful things.

Maria Ewing3:45

How dear?

Maria Ewing3:50

I was gonna say it isn't really

Presenter3:55

It's just that you understand what that is, something in your imagination.

Presenter4:01

That's after all the most important um element, is your imagination. But you played her, if I may say so, as a sort of wicked, scheming, conniving bitch.

Presenter4:14

Did I? Oh dear.

Presenter4:17

Well she's not wicked, she's full of fear and superstition.

Presenter4:22

But like anyone who has to get on in life, particularly a woman, a woman alone, woman working in a cigarette factory, you know, living the rough life, has to survive. She's not very trusting of anyone.

Presenter4:36

Tell me about your first record.

Maria Ewing4:36

Tell me about it.

Presenter4:38

Frank Sinatra Only the Lonely

Presenter4:41

Talking about acting, Sinatra was a great actor, but why was he a great actor?

Presenter4:47

because he drew upon his own experiences.

Presenter4:51

That's what set him apart from everyone else. There were lots of singers who had very beautiful voices.

Presenter4:57

But that that that

Presenter4:59

Is we need that when we're listening to someone, we want to hear the truth come, we want to know, we want to believe that person has been there and back a few times.

Presenter5:08

And Sinatra certainly did that.

Speaker 25:10

You'll know the lonely night.

Maria Ewing5:18

The

Speaker 25:18

The heart break only the lonely

Presenter5:36

Frank Sinatra and Only the Lonely, and that's as powerful as any classical song you say, Maria.

Maria Ewing5:41

When it's

Presenter5:44

So you were born and brought up in Detroit, you say. Very straightforward family, middle American family. Dad worked in the car works, four daughters, mum and dad.

Maria Ewing5:47

Uh

Speaker 25:47

Yeah.

Maria Ewing5:51

That's what

Presenter5:54

But, nevertheless, it was also an extraordinary family, wasn't it? Because of your father's ancestry. Yes, yes. Tell me about that. He was Sioux Indian. There was also American Negro.

Maria Ewing5:59

Mia.

Maria Ewing6:00

Yeah.

Presenter6:04

And this particular subject was an extremely delicate one. As a matter of fact, it was never discussed, ever.

Presenter6:14

I knew it was there. My father's sister, Dorothy, who lived in in Chicago, used to visit us, but she'd only come at at night.

Presenter6:25

Never clean during the day.

Maria Ewing6:25

Everyone doing

Presenter6:27

Well, I suppose neighbours, you see.

Presenter6:30

It's very, very strange because we lived in a in a a typical sort of American neighborhood, houses close together, which we had to rev

Presenter6:38

Front yard and back yard. And in the fifties it was vi a real sort of community of of people and um

Presenter6:47

The people who lived next door to us we were very, very close to, and they were from the south.

Presenter6:53

They were they were Southerners, and they adored my father like everyone else. He was a very, very charismatic man, very remarkable uh person, so warm and uh just three months before dad um uh died suddenly, he collected me from school one day, brought me home, and we were going into the house, and out of the door the neighbours came.

Presenter7:19

and suddenly started shouting at him for no reason. I could I could never fathom to this day I can't fathom it.

Presenter7:28

and I suddenly said to him

Presenter7:30

Why don't you die, nigger?

Presenter7:34

and my father, who was very, very dignified.

Presenter7:39

Just stood there.

Presenter7:41

looked at them and said to me, Mary, get in the house, get in the house.

Presenter7:46

Not another thing was said.

Presenter7:48

And when dad died three months later, these people were devastated.

Presenter7:55

Dad was a very well educated man. He studied at Cornell University. He was a artist here. He hid his past to protect him. Dad wasn't a coward.

Maria Ewing7:59

That he writes to me.

Maria Ewing8:01

The test was

Presenter8:06

But they

Presenter8:10

The saddest thing of all is that I think he he died before you actually walked on the stage and sang in public. Absolutely, yes. He he died and uh the the the day after uh Jad was was was buried, I I gave a little recital.

Maria Ewing8:15

David sang in public.

Presenter8:27

Um in Detroit. Your first one? Yes, oh yes. And I I I did it. Something uh well you know moments like that.

Presenter8:36

There's tremendous tremendous force steps in and gives you strength, and perhaps that may be the trooper I

Presenter8:44

I I later became Tell me about your second book book. Yes. Well, this is uh La Prémie died in Fond by De Bussy, and this was the first classical music I heard. My mother brought back some uh

Maria Ewing8:48

Tell me about your second record.

Presenter9:03

Recordings from Holland She went to visit her mother in Holland.

Presenter9:08

And when I played this music and I I I think I was five, six, seven, I was absolutely overwhelmed by it. I just I there was something that

Presenter9:18

I knew.

Presenter9:21

I did.

Presenter9:22

Well, I must have known that I'd go on to sing many works written by Dubusy.

Presenter10:29

The opening of Debussy's Prelude à la Primide d'Anfonde, played by the Swiss Romande Orchestra, conducted by Ernest Anserme.

Presenter10:36

It was Maria Ewing, your mother apparently, who spotted your talent. How did it happen? Well, my sister Frances um sang in the choir, and uh I would play the piano for her and sing along.

Presenter10:53

My mother uh said to you have a voice. You have a voice there.

Presenter11:00

And I remember looking at her and thinking, Why are you saying that? Do you think I can't play the piano?

Presenter11:07

But it all took off.

Presenter11:17

And uh

Presenter11:18

She tapped me on the shoulder. I turned around. It was misses Browd. She said, You're in the choir you're in the choir. Be there to morrow.

Presenter11:25

Oh, right. You got so dead. And I was terribly shy. Terri oh, you know, really.

Presenter11:31

painfully shy.

Presenter11:33

And uh anyway, I did this and there was a a little singing contest that came up, and uh misses Bro wanted me to enter this contest, so I learnt oh gosh, what was it? Um oh yes, um an ario from Sans I d'Alila.

Presenter11:50

which is a piece my father used to play. It's a really beautiful piece. It's a abs gorgeous piece. Anyway, I sang this and I won this little contest. And she said I think you should work with the with the with a singing teacher. So she introduced me to

Presenter12:05

Marjorie Gordon, and

Presenter12:08

I was very lucky because Marjorie never made me afraid, you know.

Presenter12:14

She allowed me to be a bit daring. In other words, within a few weeks she said to me, Mm, I hear a bit of color tura in your voice. Why why don't you learn the chanarantula aria?

Presenter12:27

And I loved all this colour tour music. I thought it was absolutely wonderful. And I also thought that the colour tour was something that should be expressive and not mechanical. So it was all all to do with expression and meaning and all this right from the start. You were actually liberated. You were gi you were g given your head in that sense. Yes, you said I held back in any way.

Maria Ewing12:39

She starts at

Maria Ewing12:44

That's not held back in any way.

Presenter12:47

And when you were eighteen you were introduced to, you met, and he became your Svengali James Slavano. And he compared you to Callas, didn't he?

Maria Ewing12:53

Yeah.

Speaker 212:53

James Slavan.

Presenter12:58

He said to me, You're going to

Presenter13:03

You're going to revolutionize what was it?

Presenter13:07

I think

Presenter13:08

the words, the use of words in music in the way that Callas did. And I think

Presenter13:15

Yes, probably there is that similarity in that

Presenter13:20

She believed in in in in in in the words, what they meant, what that came from, and I've always felt the same.

Presenter13:30

Tell me about record number three. Yes. Ah, this takes me back to the seventies in New York. I used to listen to the jazz station there all the time. And one of my very favorite numbers is this one by played by Grover Washington Junior, Passion Flower, a song written by Billy Streo.

Presenter14:19

Grover Washington, Junior and Passion Flower from his album Mr. Magic, and this time it's memories of New York in the seventies, where you lived in the hotel

Presenter14:28

Barbazone. Yes, the Barbazone. With people like Kim Bassinger. I didn't visit anybody like Kim Bassinger. Yes, we were all working girls. Young women trying to work. The Barbazone used to be a very sort of posh place, I think. You know, a lot of wealthy

Maria Ewing14:28

Uh

Speaker 214:28

Top

Maria Ewing14:28

As

Maria Ewing14:32

But if there is anybody like Kim Bessengers

Maria Ewing14:37

Young women trying to make their way.

Presenter14:44

Family said the girl I couldn't.

Speaker 214:44

Have families

Maria Ewing14:45

Uh

Presenter14:48

Not easily at all. I I had scholarship and it helped a bit, but I I I worked.

Presenter14:54

I worked as I as a receptionist. I worked in a shop trying to sell clothes. Wasn't very good at it because I was too honest and they sacked me. But all the time you were s you were singing. You were yes, yes. I did I didn't go to Juilliard. I I just worked on my own.

Maria Ewing14:55

Designer.

Speaker 215:05

Are you

Speaker 215:06

Wait.

Presenter15:11

But when you work on your own, and you've said that before, that's obviously how you do it. When you've really got to learn a part, how do you do that? You sit down at the piano.

Speaker 215:15

Yes.

Speaker 215:18

Piano

Presenter15:19

And then what? How how does it happen? You sit, you learn the n the notation, you know, the dynamics, but at the same time you're taking in what the what the text is saying. So it's all these things working together. But first and foremost is just getting that music learnt and prepared so you have it in your head and then you're free enough to express.

Maria Ewing15:40

Inc.

Presenter15:44

What what is within you, what you have to say.

Presenter15:48

And the the wonderful thing about the Barbizon was that they had music rooms up the top floor, which was absolutely wonderful.

Presenter15:55

And I'd spend hours there, way be I mean the the um

Presenter15:59

The sort of headmistress like lady who ran the hotel. Oh, she was she was a bit of a nightmare, this woman. She come tapping on the door. Miss Ewing, it's time to leave. It's past hours. Out Yes, misses Sibling, I think her name was Sibley or so very strange lady.

Maria Ewing16:13

Yeah.

Speaker 216:14

Uh

Maria Ewing16:14

Structure.

Speaker 216:14

Yeah.

Maria Ewing16:14

Peace.

Speaker 216:14

Uh

Presenter16:15

But does there come a moment during that whole process when suddenly you feel you've got the character inside you? Yes, I know. I know what she's saying. Yes, absolutely.

Maria Ewing16:20

Yes, yes, I know. Yes, I know.

Presenter16:25

I remember when we did Salome.

Presenter16:29

And we we were rehearsing in LA. And I remember saying to Peter, I said, Peter, I don't know what anyone's going to make of this or think of it or what I don't know. I can't.

Maria Ewing16:33

Dear idol

Presenter16:38

I can't think about that. And ultimately I can't really care about that. But I know that we understand this piece. I know we've got it. I know what this means. Yes, you do. Yes, you do.

Maria Ewing16:47

Mm-hmm.

Presenter16:50

And for the moment and moments or hours you're on stage, it it it belongs to you. Record number four.

Presenter16:57

This piece is uh called Lamentation.

Presenter17:02

By a young British composer of African descent called Tunde Jigede.

Presenter17:08

If I may just read this what Tunde Gigette says

Presenter17:14

In reference to this At the time of writing these notes I see a world full of lamentation, from the disintegration of Eastern Europe to the genocide of rivalling African peoples in Rwanda.

Presenter17:30

Yet in all these global calamities it is easy to lose sight of the personal stories that lie behind them. The music of lamentation is my contribution to rekindling the spirit of empathy.

Presenter17:42

for it is only the moments of reflection that give us a chance to lament, heal, and find a deep peace.

Presenter18:20

Tunde Gigede with the London Sinfonietta playing part of his composition Lamentation.

Presenter18:25

Uh people will have noticed by now, Maria Ewing, there's no opera here at all, and there isn't going to be, is there? Why not?

Maria Ewing18:30

No no

Presenter18:35

This

Presenter18:36

What I've selected here is the music I listen to. You don't listen to opera? No, I don't. You go to the opera.

Maria Ewing18:42

I did not

Presenter18:43

No, I don't. I have done occasionally, but um I think it's just you're just it's too much a part of me. It's too much a part of me.

Presenter18:53

I can't. Do you hear somebody else? I just, I'd probably be too critical.

Maria Ewing18:53

You don't hear somebody else.

Presenter18:59

You know, and I'll see productions which are, you know.

Presenter19:03

Full of ideas, but missing the point altogether. Tell me tell me then about Peter Hall. 1978, Gleinbourne, you came over to do COC with him. You worked artistically as a collaboration and then it became personal. Was it an immediate rapport? Yes, it was. Yes, it was.

Speaker 219:11

Yeah.

Presenter19:23

Peter is a very charming

Presenter19:25

Man.

Speaker 219:26

Um 20 years.

Speaker 219:28

Yeah.

Presenter19:29

A lot has been said in the past about this element of his becoming the father figure, the father that you'd lost and so on. Is there some truth in that?

Speaker 219:31

Okay.

Maria Ewing19:32

Uh

Maria Ewing19:35

Some truth in that.

Presenter19:38

No, not at all. Well, then being in need of a male mentor, as it were, you've moved on from the vine. I don't think it's about I what you know.

Maria Ewing19:39

But then the

Maria Ewing19:43

I divine.

Presenter19:46

There might be those things and there's and there's nothing wrong with that if y you know, if that is the case. And perhaps there is. All these things are part of our our our

Maria Ewing19:53

Thank you.

Presenter19:56

consciousness and subconsciousness. Um we fell in love.

Presenter20:01

We fell in love. We intensely.

Presenter20:06

And you had this wonderful romantic wedding on St. Valentine's Day. That was absolutely wonderful. I was expecting Rebecca at that time. I was about eight months, seven or eight months pregnant and singing at the Met at the same time. It was very funny during this little ceremony because the the vicar, whoever it was, was I had a feeling was slightly tipsy.

Maria Ewing20:10

That's right.

Presenter20:35

Just a small group of friends, and just a matter of fact, Jimmy Levine was there. It was only five or six people there.

Speaker 220:41

Yeah.

Presenter20:42

It was a wonderful time. But the marriage didn't last. What was it, seven years? Yes, yes, six years, yes.

Maria Ewing20:46

The mirror here.

Presenter20:49

He's written since in in in his autobiography, She doesn't live her life easily. What do you think he means by that? Well I don't know if anyone does. I don't think Peter does either.

Maria Ewing20:58

It is either.

Presenter21:00

But

Presenter21:02

I think he respected that. I think he he knows me very, very well. And at that time I was.

Presenter21:10

probably more

Presenter21:13

prone to uh

Presenter21:16

you know great mood swings and sort of temperament was a lot more uh

Presenter21:23

I I think

Presenter21:25

The thing is that I was I was perhaps not ready uh for marriage. I I I I was always a bit afraid of it. I I don't know why exactly. Um maybe it was because when we were little there was a lot of uh friction um

Presenter21:44

Between my parents, not

Presenter21:46

Not brought on by my father, but my mother was a very

Presenter21:50

temperamental woman. And I understand her very well. I understand her now.

Presenter21:54

better than I did as a child, but she could suddenly, just you know.

Presenter21:58

flare up. W women do, we do, you know. And so you're saying it was your fault in a sense that that that the marriage ended then? Oh, I I think probably my fault more than anything else. Peter's love was was very intense.

Maria Ewing22:02

Shall you say

Maria Ewing22:05

Yeah.

Presenter22:13

On a lighter note, a very funny story.

Presenter22:18

I was uh pregnant and we were living um on which was it, Tryon Street, just off the King's Road, rent rented a little house there.

Presenter22:28

And one day there was a a bee, a a b a wasp or something, in the window.

Presenter22:35

Anyway, I rang up Peter at the National Theatre. He was in the middle of a board meeting. This is absolutely true. And I said, Peter, there's a wasp in the room. There's a wasp. I don't know what to do.

Presenter22:47

He got out of the board meeting, got into a taxi, came to Chyon Street, killed the wasp off there, darling, everything's fine and went back to the board.

Presenter22:56

That was typical Pietra. He was very loving and is a very loving man. He's still friends today. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Maria Ewing23:00

He's still friends today.

Presenter23:04

Next piece of music. Richard Burton Reading The Good Morrow by John Donne.

Presenter23:09

I would have to have the the spoken voice, and particularly his, and uh and I think I think the poem speaks for itself.

Speaker 423:17

I wonder by my troth what thou and I did till we loved.

Speaker 423:22

Were we not weaned till then?

Speaker 423:24

That sucked on country pleasures childishly

Speaker 423:28

Or snorted we in the seven sleepers' den

Speaker 423:32

Twas so.

Speaker 423:33

But this all pleasure's fancies be

Speaker 423:37

If ever any beauty I did see Which I desired and got,

Speaker 423:42

It was but a dream.

Speaker 423:45

And now good morrow to our waking souls, which watch not one another out of fear.

Speaker 423:50

For love, all love of other sites controls and makes one little room.

Speaker 423:56

And everywhere.

Speaker 423:58

Let sea discoverers to new worlds have gone, let maps to other, worlds on worlds have shown.

Speaker 424:04

Let us possess one world.

Speaker 424:06

Each hath one.

Speaker 424:07

And is one.

Speaker 424:10

My face in thine eye, thine in mine appears, And true plain hearts do in the faces rest.

Presenter24:16

RICHARD BURTON reading John Donne's The Good Morrow.

Presenter24:20

Maria, the Carmen that you and Peter did together, we've mentioned, the other controversial piece was, of course, the Salome at Covent Garden, where the audience gasped as you danced the dance of the seven veils and revealed all. We've heard enough to know that you must obviously have believed that that nakedness was absolutely necessary artistically. Yes, yes, I did.

Maria Ewing24:39

Very artistic.

Presenter24:42

And at some point you you did away with the with the sequin G string. That's right. When I first um sang Salome, I did wear a little sort of you know, yes, G string.

Maria Ewing24:42

And yet sometimes you

Maria Ewing24:45

Because that

Presenter24:54

Um

Presenter24:56

I think that's dishonest and I think it's vulgar.

Presenter25:00

Nudity isn't

Presenter25:02

Vulgar in this in this context.

Presenter25:06

Um any more than the nudity we see in in most classical paintings? In a sense, I suppose only a husband

Presenter25:14

Working with your husband like that, could you could arrive at that point perhaps, because it's quite a daring thing to do. I made the decision on my own though, actually. It was my decision to it wasn't Peter saying, darling, I want you to be able to do it.

Speaker 225:18

What a

Speaker 225:22

Yeah.

Speaker 225:25

I want you to both on that note.

Presenter25:29

But tell me about the s people you collaborate with as conductors and directors.

Speaker 225:32

With that

Speaker 225:33

Yeah.

Presenter25:35

Perhaps the most interesting question to ask is what don't you like in a conductor or a director? Indifference.

Presenter25:43

Coldness.

Presenter25:44

Arrogance

Presenter25:47

Um lack of compassion.

Presenter25:50

You know, you're you're working with emotions that ju you know, that are always right, you know, fever pitch most of the time. So y and a a singer

Presenter26:02

after all, is the one we have to do it. We have to sing. We have to convey the the meaning through the text, which is the most powerful. And you need the support behind you to

Presenter26:17

to do that, to feel free enough to do that. But it doesn't mean you you're you know you're

Presenter26:23

you're mutilating the music and uh expecting them to to follow you and all this kind of thing. It's just that that that just that understanding, just you know, that respect.

Presenter26:37

Tell me about your next record. Yes.

Presenter26:40

Artatum, the one and only artatum.

Presenter26:44

Well, you d it to

Presenter26:46

Choose something played by Art Tatum and you could just point to anything and he he's absolutely amazing. I mean, I I think he is to playing what Mozart was to composition.

Presenter26:55

He just does it.

Presenter26:57

And always surprising harmonically and rhythmically and and full of wit.

Presenter27:32

Art Tatum playing Sweet Lorraine

Presenter27:35

Maria, you singing the popular music at the Proms, which you first did in 1989, I think, with Richard Rodney Bennett at the piano, fascinating rhythm, night and day, embraceable you, and all. You've done lots like it. I have to say, you look totally at home in the sequins, the high heels, and the hand mic. You know, it it really comes from the heart there, doesn't it? It is very much part of you. Yes, yes, it is, yes, it is. Mm-mm, perhaps, than the great act, the haughty Carmen tossing her head and stamping her foot. Well, it's another world.

Speaker 227:51

It was a Lahan.

Presenter28:08

But they're both fascinating worlds. You know. It's a different style of singing that is required for this popular music.

Speaker 228:17

How different is

Presenter28:18

Well

Presenter28:19

Not easy to explain. Because there's nothing worse, is there? Sorry to interrupt you.

Presenter28:26

An opera singer singing popular ballads and sounding like an opera. You when you hear the hint of the coloratura in Got You Under My Skin, it's kind of wrong.

Presenter28:34

It yes, it is. Yes. Um it it s can sound pretty, you know, and and

Presenter28:40

Maybe maybe some songs I can't think at the moment what they would be would might lend themselves to that sort of style, but it no, that's not how they were written. So you've got to get rid of or you've got to sing it training. Yeah, you you sort of sing it just

Maria Ewing28:51

Yeah, you've got to sing it training.

Presenter28:56

You sing it with the words as your focal point here. That's it's a it's about s telling you a story, you know, just saying it. What about singing opera in in somewhere like Earls' Court, which you've done?

Maria Ewing29:07

Yeah.

Presenter29:08

Uh then you've got a microphone again, haven't you? Yes. Uh and you can't see the audience. It must be quite different from singing in the traditional places, you know, I must say I love

Maria Ewing29:16

Yeah I

Presenter29:19

Singing at Earl's Court. I absolutely loved it. And I guess that was the first of that sort of thing, wasn't it? I think people in the arena like this. And when the idea came up, I didn't quite know what to think. At first, I thought, won't this be a bit like a circus act or something, you know? But when I saw the set, which was absolutely fantastic, it was designed by Stefan Lazaritas.

Maria Ewing29:26

But people in the arena.

Presenter29:45

There was something s so liberating about it. So was it, would you say, more thrilling than singing at the Met or?

Presenter29:53

At Covent Garden? I w well, I don't know about more thrilling.

Presenter29:58

They're both thrilling in their way, but I you have to say that to sing w with people surrounding you, you know, on all sides. You can move, look, you know, everywhere, they're there.

Presenter30:10

And that that that is special. Record number seven.

Presenter30:15

Well

Presenter30:18

I would have to laugh, and I I listened to the Round the Horn tapes. I've got all of them in my car, and I've listened to them over and over and over again. And I just think that well, they're they're all brilliant, that whole team, Betty Marston, Hugh Paddock, and of course the the the one and only Kenneth Williams.

Speaker 430:35

And now to a new feature. The BBC as a democratic organization believe that minority groups, however small, should be allowed to voice their opinions. So this week we have with us a fanatic secret sect who call themselves the Shuddering Brethren with their leader, Mr Grant Fatto.

Maria Ewing30:54

Yeah.

Speaker 430:55

That's

Maria Ewing30:56

J J P's Mould Grant Fatuk. Grunt Fatuk, I am the Grand, Exalted, High Worshipful Shudderer.

Speaker 431:05

Yeah.

Presenter31:05

Kenneth Williams is the legendary J. Pease Mold Grunt Futuk with Kenneth Horn in an episode of the radio comedy Round the Horn that was first broadcast in 1965. It's so interesting that you like that sort of very English humour. And of course, you live here now and you've gone on living here, although your marriage ended with Peter Hall, you still live in, I think, lovely rolling English Sussex countryside. You've just taken to us, really? Yes, I have.

Speaker 231:17

Humor

Maria Ewing31:26

Sussex countryside.

Presenter31:30

Someone said home is where the soul is, so I I guess somewhere my

Presenter31:35

My soul has has drawn me to this place. And are you are you, may I ask, happy a uh uh as a single woman? Does does motherhood and your career keep you quite busy?

Maria Ewing31:44

Yes, sir.

Presenter31:47

Not easy to come by. You're happy with some things and not happy with others. I mean, I can't I'd be lying if I said, Oh, I'm I'm everything is just wonderful and I'm the most happy person. I do it is impossible. But there are things that make me very happy. And my daughter, yes, she's she's a great part of that. And and laughter, I thank God, I have a a sense of humor. I find everything almost everything funny. Would you keep me alive? Would you find it funny to be cast away on a desert island, or would that wipe the smile off your face? I think I'd I'd being a survivor, I'd find a way.

Maria Ewing32:14

Would you fail?

Maria Ewing32:19

Yeah.

Presenter32:24

I'd find a way. And it will be very tidy,'cause you put yourself the cushions before you go to bed. I'm terribly fastidious, so that's probably one of the reasons why I'm single.

Maria Ewing32:25

It would give it a

Maria Ewing32:27

Oh, very tough.

Presenter32:35

Tell me about your last record. Yes, uh well we have Oscar Levant playing um Gershman's piano concerto and F and I believe this rendition is from the film American in Paris.

Presenter33:19

Oscar Levant playing part of the third movement of Gershwin's piano concerto in F, and that was from the soundtrack of An American in Paris. If you could only take one of those eight records, Maria, which one would you take?

Presenter33:31

Probably.

Presenter33:33

Debuses.

Presenter33:36

A la primitive.

Presenter33:38

What about your book? We we supply the Bible and we supply the complete works of Shakespeare. Yes.

Presenter33:44

I've selected for very, very personal reasons the poetical works of John Donne. I think he understood through a very personal experience, those elements

Presenter33:59

In human nature that often conflict

Presenter34:03

in the physical.

Presenter34:05

The flesh.

Presenter34:06

and the spirit.

Presenter34:07

And your luxury.

Presenter34:11

Of course. You couldn't possibly live without one, could you?

Speaker 234:12

You couldn't possibly live without one, could you?

Presenter34:15

Maria Ewing, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Speaker 234:15

Easy way.

Speaker 234:17

That is

Presenter34:26

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co. uk slash radio four.