Mary Stocks

Speaker 20:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Speaker 10:05

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. For rights reasons, the music is shorter than on the original broadcast. The presenter is Roy Plomley. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:27

How do you do, ladies and gentlemen? Our castaway this week was for many years a university tutor. She's done a great deal of social work and she's a frequent and popular broadcaster. It's Mary Stocks.

Presenter0:39

Mrs. Stocks, could you condition yourself to endure indefinite solitude? Yes, I think I could. After all, when you reach the age of close on 74, loneliness doesn't matter so much.

Presenter0:52

In fact, it's at times rather welcome.

Presenter0:56

It's a nice island. I assume that it's on the whole tropical. Yes. Warm. It's quite a pleasant island. Fertile.

Speaker 11:00

Yes, yes.

Presenter1:03

Yeah.

Presenter1:04

What would you be happiest to have got away from?

Presenter1:07

Oh, the feeling that whatever I was doing, I ought to be doing either something else.

Presenter1:12

or something more.

Presenter1:14

or something better.

Presenter1:16

Does music play an important part in your life? No, not an important part, because I've really never been musical. It's a very pleasant by-product and I've enjoyed it greatly. Have you ever learned an instrument?

Presenter1:28

Attempts were once made to teach me the piano, but they failed. My only instrument was the mouth organ, but it's a long time since I've played that.

Presenter1:36

Did you have any plan in deciding on your eight records to take with you? Yes.

Presenter1:41

I did. I think that music tunes are like smells. They're extremely evocative of the situation or period in your life.

Presenter1:50

And music has always played that part in mind. I mean, if I hear a thing, it recalls the situation in which I first heard it, if it's impressed me at the time.

Presenter2:00

What's the first one you have? The first one, please, is Soldiers of the Queen.

Presenter2:04

which I used to hear played during the South African war and which I was given to play on a thing called a phonograph.

Presenter2:13

Not in the form of a disc, but in the form of a cylinder.

Presenter2:16

And though it's militaristic and I enjoyed it, it is true that I was counted myself then a pro-Boer, being naturally on the side of a minority.

Presenter2:25

It's the soldiers of the Queen, Milan Bo Zing, Malad for Sing.

Presenter2:34

In the high pouring lands glory.

Presenter2:38

The worldwide glory let us sing And when they say we've always won And when they ask us how Oh, it's done.

Mary Stocks2:50

Uh

Presenter2:50

Yeah.

Mary Stocks2:50

Yeah.

Presenter2:51

We'll

Mary Stocks2:51

What

Presenter2:51

Uh

Mary Stocks2:51

Uh

Presenter2:51

Uh

Mary Stocks2:51

Uh

Presenter2:54

So does the Queen.

Presenter2:56

What's your second choice?

Presenter2:57

My second choice is the Intimezzo from the Cavalieria Rosticana. Why do you choose this? Ah, because it was the first piece of music that really moved me deeply when I first heard it, again on that phonograph.

Presenter3:11

I think I felt like Samuel Pepys when he heard what he called wind music for the first time.

Presenter3:18

He said, I did not know that music could so move the soul of man. It made me feel quite sick as when I was in love with my wife. I knew exactly how he felt. I think I must have been 10 or 11 at the time.

Presenter3:31

And I should love to hear it again and see if it made me feel like that still.

Presenter4:33

The intermezzo from Capolo Rio Rosticana, played by the orchestra of the St. Cincilia Academy in Rome, conducted by Tullio Serafini.

Presenter4:42

Where were you born, Mrs. Doctor? I was born in London, Cockney, and both my parents were Cockneys. I've been a Cockney all my life, except for 12 years when I lived in Manchester and loved it. What was it your first ambition to be? A horse. But I was very young at the time, and of course I couldn't be, and that was that. When you left school, you were at St. Paul's Girls' School? Yes. What did you do? I left rather ignominiously before my 17th birthday, having failed in an exam which I suppose is the equivalent of the present O level.

Mary Stocks5:13

Hmm.

Presenter5:14

And then I became secretary to a London County Council School Care Committee, one of the very early ones in a rather slummy area. But I'd always been interested in that sort of thing, not in school life.

Presenter5:27

What was the next step? The next step was that after two years I had really become passionately interested in it and I thought I'd better learn.

Presenter5:34

A little more.

Presenter5:36

And so I got myself coached through Matrick and entered as an undergraduate at the London School of Economics.

Presenter5:43

To take a BSc econ degree in economics. And when you had got that degree, were you going to teach?

Presenter5:50

Well, I didn't really know what I was going to do except that I was going to pursue the study of economics. What I did, in fact, was to get married.

Presenter5:58

and go to Oxford. I got engaged during my

Presenter6:02

time as an undergraduate.

Presenter6:04

And quite properly, I waited until I finished my degree. Yes, your husband was an Oxford doc. Yes, he was.

Presenter6:10

And then I went to Oxford and did a certain amount of tutoring.

Presenter6:14

There, in my subject. Yes, and then?

Presenter6:19

And then we went to Manchester in...

Presenter6:22

Nineteen twenty

Presenter6:23

Fall, I think it was. That was the 12 years stay. That was the beginning of the 12 years stay, yes.

Speaker 16:26

That was the beginning of the

Presenter6:29

He was at the university. He was at the university. He was.

Speaker 16:30

He was a

Presenter6:32

professor of philosophy and I did a lot of adult education work.

Presenter6:39

under the Workers' Educational Association in connection with the extramural department of the university. You were also a Justice of the Peace? Yes, I was. Seven years.

Presenter6:51

And after your stay in Manchester?

Presenter6:53

After that, we went to Liverpool and my husband was made Vice-Chancellor.

Presenter6:58

of the university but unless

Presenter7:00

It didn't last very long because he died quite suddenly.

Mary Stocks7:03

Yeah.

Presenter7:04

So what did you do? I came to London and I took a job as General Secretary of the London Council of Social Services.

Presenter7:13

And there I stayed for two years working in an office.

Presenter7:17

in Bedford Square.

Presenter7:19

Until I was appointed principal of Westfield College. This is a women's college in the University of London. Yes, residential.

Speaker 17:24

Yes.

Presenter7:25

And you stayed there for some years? I stayed there for twelve years, six years.

Presenter7:30

evacuated at Oxford and six years back in London in Hampstead. And when you resigned from that post in 1951, wasn't it? Yes, I resigned because I reached the superannuation age. I was 60.

Presenter7:45

Nowadays, I suppose I should have stayed on till 65. So that was the end of your academic life?

Speaker 17:50

Yeah.

Presenter7:50

Not wholly the end, because some years after that I was a member of the University Grants Committee, which kept me in touch with academic affairs.

Presenter7:59

Let's break off here for your third record, shall we?

Presenter8:02

My third record is the Libestot.

Presenter8:04

from Wagner's Tristan and Isolde.

Presenter8:08

And I've chosen that because after my

Presenter8:11

passionate devotion to Cavalieria Rosticana, I became a wagnerite.

Presenter8:15

and I remained a keen Wagnerite.

Presenter8:18

Indeed, I was married to the tune of Wagner.

Presenter8:22

I signed the register to the Tannhuizer Pilgrim's Chordus and walked down the aisle to the tune of the Lohengrin wedding march.

Presenter8:30

But I've always thought that Tristan was the greatest of Wagner's works.

Presenter8:36

And the Lieberstoot at the end summed it all up.

Presenter8:39

I have a particularly pleasant memory of hearing it in Berlin in 1931.

Presenter8:46

in the Big Shar Lottenberg Opera House.

Presenter8:49

And I should like to hear that again sung by Frida Leider as she sang it then.

Mary Stocks9:04

We are hurt.

Mary Stocks9:12

Lead your coins.

Mary Stocks9:44

In Austin, it's in for a moment.

Presenter9:54

Frieda Leider singing the Lieverstad from Tristan and Isolde.

Mary Stocks9:58

So

Presenter9:59

Well, Mrs. Dox, after you had finished your academic career, you served on the University Grants Committee. You've served on many public bodies and government committees. You're telling me I've served on an enormous number. Oh, way back in the beginning of the 30s. You see, the government had an idea that, and rightly, of course.

Presenter10:17

that there ought to be at least one woman on every departmental committee or loyal commission.

Presenter10:22

And unfortunately, they only knew about six women.

Presenter10:26

I happened to be one because an influential friend had put me on a departmental committee early in the 30s. So after that I sat on practically all of them, dealing with every subject from the training of dentists, betting and gambling.

Speaker 110:35

The money.

Presenter10:39

Yes. And I can only regard it as providential because you cannot imagine a better education.

Presenter10:47

For a program like any questions, you see, where one needs a superficial knowledge of a number of unrelated subjects. Yeah.

Presenter10:55

You were on the Beveridge Committee on the future of broadcast. Ah, that was the most interesting of the lot. Yes. Did that committee advocate commercial television? It sure did not.

Presenter11:05

By 10 to 1, it advocated maintaining the monopoly of the BBC, but unfortunately the Labour government of the time

Presenter11:14

continued the charter of the BBC for six months and in so doing handed it on a plate to the Conservatives who adopted the minority report and introduced commercial television.

Presenter11:25

You will stood for Parliament yourself as an independent candidate.

Presenter11:28

Yes, in 1945, London University and I jolly nearly got in against a right-wing conservative independent.

Presenter11:38

So nearly that they had to have a recount.

Presenter11:40

But I'm very glad I didn't.

Presenter11:42

I should have had to retire from Westfield College and soon after that of course the university representation was abolished wrongly I think. We'll have record number four now.

Presenter11:52

The Belse Element from Schumann's Carnival.

Presenter11:56

And I've chosen that because having been so long and so exclusively Wagnerian, when I went to Oxford after the war, I heard Carnival played by Miss Margaret Dennicky.

Presenter12:09

Ach was so stringent.

Presenter12:11

And since I suppose I can't hear her play it, let's have Mara hiss.

Presenter13:08

Myra Hess playing the valsalement from Schumann's Carnival Suite.

Presenter13:13

When did you start your career as a broadcaster?

Presenter13:16

years ago in Manchester.

Presenter13:19

And then on one or two occasions, I did, I think, current affairs at Savoy Hill.

Presenter13:25

To LO

Mary Stocks13:26

Mm-hmm.

Presenter13:27

And I did one or two.

Presenter13:29

History dramas for schools, yes.

Speaker 113:31

Yeah.

Mary Stocks13:31

Or

Speaker 113:31

Yeah.

Mary Stocks13:31

Yeah.

Speaker 113:31

Yeah.

Presenter13:32

But I didn't really start it as a

Presenter13:35

Fairly regular broadcaster until I'd retired from academic life.

Presenter13:40

and started cashing in on the wide education I'd had on government committees. And now we hear you mainly on any questions.

Presenter13:47

Now, which pronouncement of yours on any question has raised the biggest rumpus?

Presenter13:53

It concerns cricket, about which I know absolutely nothing.

Presenter13:57

But some years ago, Colin Codger

Presenter14:00

but was disqualified from military service because there was something wrong with his feet.

Presenter14:05

and he was then taken on as a test cricketer and everybody said the thing had been fiddled you see

Presenter14:11

And the question was, what do members of the team think of Colin Kuyber's feet?

Presenter14:16

And of course, Freddy Grisewood, knowing I knew nothing, hit on me first. And I said, who is Colin Cadre and what was his feat? I've never been allowed to forget it.

Presenter14:28

You've written a number of books, haven't you, Mr. Stoff? One or two. Yes, biographies. Yes, two biographies. And a number of plays. Well, one has been published, yes, and indeed acted. Well, theatre's a major interest in yours, isn't it? It always has been, and it was my husband's, too.

Presenter14:44

What are you working on at the moment?

Presenter14:46

Ah, the beauty of it is I'm not working on anything and I don't see why I should at my age. No play waiting to be written.

Presenter14:53

That's one thing I should like to do. Yes, I sometimes think I will.

Presenter14:59

Let's have record number five now. Now record number five.

Presenter15:03

is Gracie Fields singing not her, what you might call her signature song.

Presenter15:09

Sally, but the little pudding basin that belonged to Auntie Fro, which was the first song I heard her sing.

Presenter15:16

And when my husband and I went to Manchester, we realized that Gracie Fields was our idol. We took every opportunity of hearing her sing.

Speaker 215:26

Oh, the little pudding basin that belonged to Auntie Flo. It's very much admired, but it's quite a curio. When he's asked for a reference, well all he asked to show is the little pudding basin that belonged to Auntie Flo.

Speaker 215:48

The day he married Irmin, Trudy, was a swell affair. The Boy Scouts came in.

Presenter15:55

Gracie Fields.

Presenter15:57

What's your sixth record? My sixth record is the love song from Saunders of the River sung by Paul Robeson.

Presenter16:06

I don't think it is a very good film and the music certainly isn't African, but I have a pleasant association with it.

Presenter16:13

It reminds me of the time when we were about to go to Liverpool and my husband had just been appointed as Vice-Chancellor, a job he was.

Presenter16:23

Very well fitted to do and did beautifully in the short time that was allowed him.

Presenter16:28

And we were extremely happy. It was a sort of high spot.

Presenter16:32

that Christmas and so I always associate that particular song with that particular time and of course we were not to know that it wasn't going to last very long.

Presenter17:03

Burn escape me boy.

Mary Stocks17:13

And your song.

Presenter17:41

Paul Rebs.

Presenter17:43

This is Doc. Have you found time for hobbies and pastimes?

Presenter17:47

Oh yes.

Presenter17:48

Great number. Anything that's going to be useful to you as a castaway.

Presenter17:52

Well, I still have the use of my feet, fortunately, so I can walk about that island, having never worn fashionable shoes.

Presenter18:00

Could you live off the land fairly well? Well, it depends on the land and what it grew, but I'm assuming, you know, there's a certain amount of fruit and that I should be able to pick up shellfish. If I'm allowed to take my spectacles, I might be able to use them to kindle a fire and fry anything I manage to catch. Yes. I can see you've been thinking about this. Yes.

Presenter18:22

As far as rescue is concerned, are you an optimist?

Presenter18:26

Yes, I think so. I think the highways of the world are so well populated that somebody's bound to pick me up and yet on the whole I'm not certain I want to be picked up. Why? Well, I think the world is in a bad way, what with threat of nuclear war, threat of overpopulation.

Presenter18:46

It means, of course, we must all work very, very hard to prevent the worst happening, and I hope we shall. Indeed.

Presenter18:54

Let's have record number seven we've got tonight.

Presenter18:57

Well, now may I have to use Transatlantic Lullaby? I don't think well, it's a very good song, but I have a rather nostalgic association with it.

Presenter19:06

I remember playing it on a gramophone.

Presenter19:09

During the early part of the war, when we were expecting London to be bombed and coming as it were, a sort of voice from New York, it seemed peaceful and...

Presenter19:19

and calm.

Presenter19:22

And not that New York is peaceful or calm, but it suggested peace and calm in the state we then were.

Presenter19:29

And I remember thinking I should like to hear it again when all that misery was past and

Presenter19:36

The war was finished.

Presenter19:38

And I'd like to hear it again.

Mary Stocks19:40

On Hudson River distant tugboats cry

Mary Stocks19:49

Ship to ship

Presenter19:51

Shore to shore. Uh

Mary Stocks19:53

Yeah.

Presenter19:53

Waters make us shine.

Mary Stocks19:56

Finally.

Presenter19:56

Yeah.

Mary Stocks19:58

Yeah.

Mary Stocks19:59

A transatlantic lollaby.

Mary Stocks20:05

The sky is

Presenter20:07

Transatlantic lullaby sung by Turner Leighton.

Presenter20:11

Now we come to your last record.

Presenter20:13

Please may I have the chorus, the final chorus from the Matthew Passion by Bach.

Presenter20:19

It's a wonderful thing. It sums up the whole of that glorious piece of music. And since we can't have the whole of it, we'll have the finale.

Presenter20:29

And I think that's the thing to end on.

Presenter21:30

The last chorus in Bach's St. Matthew Passion, the Bach Choir, and the Jakes Orchestra.

Presenter21:37

If you would only have one of these eight records, which would it be? I'll have that one, please.

Presenter21:41

and one luxury to take with you to the island.

Presenter21:45

A good transistor radio with some batteries, hoping, of course, that...

Presenter21:52

A pirate broadcaster will not anchor outside my three-mile limit and entertain me with pop records and spot adverts.

Presenter22:03

And one book.

Presenter22:05

The collected novels of Jane Austen, please. All bound together. Yes, all bound together. Nice big print.

Speaker 122:09

Together.

Presenter22:11

Yes, yes, we will stretch a point. You already, of course, have the Bible and Shakespeare. Well, that's a very good thing.

Presenter22:18

Incidentally, we have not mentioned your religious broadcasting, which is quite an important part of your activities. Well, my religious broadcasting is largely concerned with telling Old Testament stories.

Presenter22:28

And I've always greatly enjoyed it. And with my Bible on the island, I could really probably improve my style if I were ever allowed back to civilization.

Presenter22:39

Right. Thank you, Mary Stocks, for letting us hear your choice of desert island discs. Well, thank you. And I hope that, well, it's no good me saying I hope you'll visit my desert island because you wouldn't be allowed to land. And if you did, it wouldn't be desert.

Presenter22:52

Goodbye, everyone.