Peter O'Sullevan

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety seven, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:30

My Castaway this week is a sports commentator. For the past fifty years he's been the voice of racing for the BBC, and for thirty-six of those years was also the racing correspondent of the Daily Express. When he retires in November this year, he estimates that he'll have provided the commentary for 14,000 races. To hear him now, it's hard to imagine that this refined and urbane gentleman had a childhood dominated by asthma and acne, which isolated him and drove him for companionship towards a love of horses. He still loves them. He's owned them, bet on them, and he's only giving up commentating on them because of his age. Almost eighty, he says he doesn't think he'll get any better, so he can only guard against getting any worse. He is Peter O'Sullivan, now Sir Peter. Let's talk about the voice first of all, Peter, your trademark. How much did you work on it in the early days, cultivate it?

Peter O'Sullevan1:24

Frankly, Sue, not at all. It just uh it's just my voice. Maybe I've I've modified my my pace a bit. I'm told that I used to speak very much too quickly, and so I tried to slow down. But of course you have to talk quite fast to keep pace with a race horse.

Presenter1:40

What you've cultivated I well, I'm saying you have, you say you haven't uh is that sort of monotone, as it were, in the non pejorative sense that this unbiased, cool, straight approach.

Peter O'Sullevan1:52

Yes, because I think one has to remember that as a commentator on a sport in which so many listeners or viewers have a pecuniary interest, you're inevitably a purveyor of ill tidings to the majority, and not only a purveyor of ill tidings, but you're held partially accountable for them. So I think the

Presenter2:15

But they blame the messenger to do it.

Peter O'Sullevan2:17

Well, exactly, yes. I think the fewer colourful phrases and and the more precise one is, at the same time trying to keep pace with the temper of a race, which I find uh so exciting every time, is really one's one's remit.

Presenter2:34

But what about I'm sure it is, but what about when you do have a vested interest yourself? Because you're quite a a compulsive punter, I think you've confessed to being.

Peter O'Sullevan2:41

Yes, I'm a very enthusiastic punter, but I think once uh once the race is in progress, then then you I think you you go into a mode which uh

Peter O'Sullevan2:53

which is your responsibility t to uh interpret the action. And I find uh that so exciting that I I don't really uh find it too difficult to be to be impartial.

Presenter3:04

So a bit later on you think, Oh gosh, I won a thousand quid on that race.

Peter O'Sullevan3:08

Well, I wouldn't be quite as laid back as that.

Presenter3:10

What's that?

Presenter3:11

What about when you own the horse?'Cause that's happened, hasn't it?

Peter O'Sullevan3:14

It has, of course, and that adds another dimension of excitement uh to the contest, and and not only excitement, of course, but apprehension, particularly jumping.

Presenter3:23

But um presumably, therefore, you've actually called out your own name, you said that, you know, and a Tivo Wynns, owned by Peter O'Sullivan.

Peter O'Sullevan3:31

Yes, that was the most embarrassing part of the Daily Express triumph hurdle, when Ativo won. It was just when I got to Owned Buy that it sounded so narcissistic and sort of big-headed, you know, and self-promotional, that I did hesitate for quite when I hear the recording of that. You know, I keep saying to myself, quicken it up, go on.

Presenter3:56

But you never say it any faster.

Presenter3:58

Tell me about your first record.

Peter O'Sullevan4:00

Well, in my early days at school I was very keen on jazz and Louis Armstrong was becoming one of the icons of jazz and Jack Teagarten was another hero and I'd love Louis on his trumpet of course and Jack Teagarten on his trombone. And I think there's a recording of them with Pee Wee Russell on clarinet and Earl Hines on piano and Sid Catlett on drums. I've always been mad about drums and I'd like to hear that.

Presenter4:30

Sounds like a horse racing.

Speaker 45:15

Uh

Presenter5:27

Louis Armstrong playing Panama with Jack Teagarden and, among others, Pee Wee Russell on clarinet, Earl Hines on piano, and Sid Catlett on the drums.

Presenter5:36

Is the Grand National, Peter O'Sullivan, the hardest race of all to commentate on, to call?

Peter O'Sullevan5:42

It's not necessarily the hardest through, but it's the most fraught. It's it's the one uh I think that uh that one's most anxious about.

Presenter5:51

I read that after the first one you ever did, back in nineteen forty seven, in which there were fifty seven runners and you just had a a basic pair of binoculars, that you came home and you said never again.

Peter O'Sullevan6:02

I promise myself, and it's a promise I I broke three or four times, that uh if I got through the next year's National I wouldn't subject myself to this ordeal again. I I found it uh so uh devastatingly uh inhibiting, frightening,

Speaker 46:21

Why?

Peter O'Sullevan6:22

that one could get it wrong and that it would be the most appalling thing to to to misinterpret the race, to transpose colours or your thoughts don't connect to the right colour and the right horse, then you have really, really done it.

Presenter6:37

But in preparation for it, therefore, you have created every time, and do for every race, this this card of your own, yes?

Peter O'Sullevan6:46

Yes, I make a chart, a colour chart, and uh

Peter O'Sullevan6:49

make notes about how many, for instance, in the in the national, how many uh nationals a jockey has ridden in, his age, where where he finished in his previous efforts. And naturally I learn as much about the horses as I can.

Presenter7:06

But you paste up their names on on a card of your own creation the night before.

Peter O'Sullevan7:10

I paste up the colours, but even having done so, and having hopefully learnt them, I still like to see them.

Peter O'Sullevan7:18

actually in the weighing room before they go out onto the field of action, because owners, because of the big occasion, are very likely to have a different set of colors made, especially for the race, and these can be a different tone.

Peter O'Sullevan7:34

And it's the tone of colour that is absolutely vital.

Speaker 27:35

Uh

Speaker 47:35

It's the tone of colour that that is

Speaker 47:39

Mm.

Peter O'Sullevan7:40

Currently there are there are fourteen thousand eight hundred registered colors. They've made it slightly easier in the last few years by reducing colour variations or basic colors to eighteen.

Peter O'Sullevan7:55

But in the nineteen seventies and I was writing a a foreword to a book about colours, and I noticed that there were twenty shades of green alone. Um almond, apple, bottle, dark, emerald, grass, irish, jade, leaf, light, lime green, lincoln green, moss, myrtle, olive, pale, pea, rifle, sage, and sea green. And it's very difficult to distinguish, you know, when they're going forty miles an hour and they're coming at you.

Presenter8:28

So have you have you done that for every race you've ever done for years?

Peter O'Sullevan8:32

Absolutely every race, yeah.

Presenter8:34

And have you got all the cards?

Peter O'Sullevan8:37

I haven't got them all because uh charitable auctions uh sometimes ask for them and uh what do they fetch do you know

Speaker 48:43

What do they fetch, do you know?

Peter O'Sullevan8:45

Well, this year's Grand National card, absolutely amazingly, was auctioned at a dinner the following week, and it fetched thirty five thousand pounds for the two charities that it was sponsoring.

Presenter8:58

Homework rewarded.

Presenter9:00

Record number two.

Peter O'Sullevan9:01

Record number two. Well, I've always been uh mad about birds, bird life, and I think that um the pipes

Peter O'Sullevan9:13

Uh recalling

Peter O'Sullevan9:16

The flight of the condor is so evocative of the marvellous floating progress of this amazing bird with a fifteen feet wingspan. And I love the pipes too.

Presenter9:59

Dance of the Flames, the opening title music for the B B C series The Flight of the Condor performed by the Chilean group Guamarie.

Presenter10:06

Just one more thing about how you actually do the commentating, Peter.

Presenter10:11

These days, of course, you're all set up with all these gadgets i in in purpose built vantage points, but I presume over the years you've perched in some pretty precarious places. Haven't you clambered up on a kind of lavatory roof before now?

Peter O'Sullevan10:25

Yes, well that was my first uh first talking part in in the National.

Peter O'Sullevan10:30

The BBC, bless them, felt that if you were at a race course, then you could commentate. The vantage point really didn't enter into it at all. And I was supposed to stand down by the first fence on the ground and commentate on the fallers. And there was a little latrine nearby with a sloping corrugated iron roof. And of course, you slide. I took my shoes off, and then I had to take my socks off because you slide just imagine socks. So I was there in my bare feet. And you had to have a race reader. It was one of the compunctions, as it were, from the BC. What did he do?

Presenter11:11

And what did he do?

Speaker 211:12

Yeah.

Peter O'Sullevan11:13

Well, he he was it was to help you, to tell you what was happening, because in in the early days of sound broadcasting, every uh BBC broadcaster had a reader who was uh a soadisant expert in the sport. So that Raymond Glendenning, who was a marvelous broadcaster, wasn't uh necessarily comprehensively clued up about racing. He had to have somebody telling him about the change in pattern during a race, which he would weave into his word picture, and it would be the same with boxing and so forth.

Presenter11:44

But the voice of the race reader wasn't people.

Peter O'Sullevan11:46

The voice of the race reader wasn't wasn't picked up at all.

Presenter11:49

But it would slow the whole process up, of course.

Peter O'Sullevan11:51

Oh, exactly. But you see, in those days there was a lot of busking, of course. It was television that was the death of Histrionics because Raymond, bless him, he would be calling the finish of a race at Newmarket while the numbers were going in the frame and the horses were being hosed down in the unsaddling closure and he was still indulging very, very exciting commentary while he was confirming the numbers. I mean, I remember race reading to Peter Dimmock down on the ditch, The Devil's Dyke at Newmarket, you know, before the start of the Cesara, which it's a race that starts in one county and ends in another. They covered a lot of ground. And even from the Devil's Dyke, it's very difficult to see the start. And when they jumped off, Peter Dimmock, in order to show that he was a very professional broadcaster, reasonably, and of course to add to the excitement of the contest, he'd start to read from the bottom of his race card and he'd say, for instance, so it's David James from My Handsome Prince, then Magic Lake, then comes Ballad Lady, behind them Dream Carrier, then Best Cat Sibiat and C. J. Insville. And it was all very dramatic and very exciting.

Presenter13:04

But a load of old rubbish.

Peter O'Sullevan13:06

No, it's a load of old rubbish, yes, absolutely. But then they'd start to settle down, and some of you would go to the front, some of you would be second, some of you third, and I would tell relay this news to him, and he'd say, and moving up very fast now, and they're on the outside is so-and-so, and that was the correct leader. Then he'd say, and going second now, and going very easily two is so-and-so and third. And so, I mean, it made for a very exciting race. And ultimately, I mean, it was the correct one, two, three. So, who cares?

Presenter13:35

Who knew?

Peter O'Sullevan13:37

But I was going to tell you about that 49, that commentary. I said I would like Clive Graham to assist me.

Peter O'Sullevan13:46

Clive came di came down to the Commentary Point some time after me'cause I was sort of walking my box in terror. And uh he said, Well, there's no way I'm um I'll take my shoes off, but I'm not going to take my take my socks off. So anyway, he climbed up onto the roof and as the horses approached uh the fence uh he made his um

Peter O'Sullevan14:06

only contribution to the broadcast, he said, I'm going to fall off this something roof and I think that encouraged me to try and dispense with uh with race readers really.

Presenter14:15

Record number three.

Peter O'Sullevan14:17

Record number three. Well, when I was at school round about, I suppose I'd have been about 14 at the time when Duke Ellington and his splendid orchestra first recorded It Don't Mean a Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing. And I thought this was marvellous.

Presenter15:37

Duke Ellington and his orchestra and it don't mean a thing If you ain't got that swing. If you'd had the choice, Peter, and you didn't, would you have preferred to have been a jockey?

Peter O'Sullevan15:48

I think so, really. I can't think of anything more exciting because you're you're closer to the horses and I've always wanted to be close to horses.

Presenter15:55

But you're too tall, too big.

Peter O'Sullevan15:57

And too incompetent.

Presenter15:59

But you did, I understand, it at quite a precocious age seven, I think, gallop round Tattenham Corner, Epsom, on your pony. How did that come about?

Peter O'Sullevan16:06

Oh, that was very exciting, yes. Well, I I was I was brought up in uh in Surrey by indulgent uh grandparents, and I had a had a had a lovely pony.

Peter O'Sullevan16:18

And uh one day there was there was a to be a carnival in Reigate and and I was always uh shy and I didn't didn't uh like crowds uh but I was persuaded to take part dressed up as a Red Indian on on my pony while uh uh Pattendon uh the chauffeur um was a was a was a bandit and uh the the headgroom was a cowboy and he's mar marvellously uh cooted as a cowboy.

Peter O'Sullevan16:45

And the inducement was that if I would do this, then Trulove, his name was, would take me up to Epsom Downs and let me ride round Tattenham Corner. Well, of course, that was enough. He was very apprehensive when we got there, and my pony wasn't too sure that he should leave the groom and his mount. But anyway, once we started, he was absolutely thrilled. And we flew down the hill and we won the derby, of course. We turned round and cantered back. And just as we got to the top to rejoin the groom, there was a shout from a course official. And Trulove said, best trot on, Master Peter. A good soldier never looks behind.

Presenter17:32

And there's another wonderful story of your going missing one day.

Peter O'Sullevan17:36

Well I was very indignant because the uh the weekend guests brought uh brought their horses with them, and uh my pony was turned out of his box. It was

Peter O'Sullevan17:46

raining uh very hard. It was it was a filthy day and uh he was absolutely miserable.

Peter O'Sullevan17:53

So I went out to see him uh with an umbrella to talk to him.

Peter O'Sullevan17:56

And nobody could find me. And my my grandfather contacted the local police. Everybody was sent out to find me. And a member of the constabulary rang to say that a small boy had been seen just off the Raggett Road with a chestnut pony holding an umbrella over it.

Peter O'Sullevan18:20

And one of my journalistic colleagues who wrote a piece about me had said rather nicely, he's been sort of metaphorically holding an umbrella over horses ever since.

Presenter18:34

Record number four.

Peter O'Sullevan18:36

Well, I used to go to Paris a lot for The Express and find my way, needless to say, into into uh uh jazz dives and nightclubs and so forth and uh Edith Piaf was then uh uh an entertainer very much at uh height of uh talent for b belting out uh songs and I th I I would just love to hear her uh belting out genre grat rien.

Speaker 419:06

Oh the dollar

Speaker 419:09

No regretoria.

Speaker 419:15

Nila bea coma

Speaker 419:20

You mine.

Speaker 419:22

Samuel

Speaker 419:28

Hurry out.

Presenter19:31

Jeunerguette Orillien, by Edith Pieff, of course. You were, Peter O'Sullivan, beset by um asthma, miserable condition, from about the age of eight, and you were packed off to Switzerland in your teens for treatment and then

Presenter19:46

Something even more distressing perhaps happened, because it seemed to trigger off a a virulent form of acne, didn't it?

Peter O'Sullevan19:51

Yes, it did. And very, very unsightly. And uh to me it was much worse than the asthma. Uh it would uh limited the scope of one's life comprehensively. And uh

Peter O'Sullevan20:06

I suppose uh drove me more sort of on into myself as it were and and uh detached me from uh my fellow creatures much more than I was.

Presenter20:14

You've described it as indescribably painful.

Presenter20:19

What did you do? How did it affect you?

Peter O'Sullevan20:21

Well, it affected my outlook. I mean, it it it was painful in the sense that it was a very, very severe skin eruption, but of course it made one so unsightly that you you felt a a pariah.

Peter O'Sullevan20:39

And I came back to England, and I was treated by all sorts of people.

Peter O'Sullevan20:47

Nothing really helped me. I I was um in such a

Peter O'Sullevan20:52

Paul state that I was treated in uh the Middlesex Hospital where I stayed for several months and they realized they couldn't do very much for me so they encouraged me to leave but I wouldn't go out in the daytime. I I stayed on there and used to go out at night. And I mean ultimately when I went racing I would only go to the Silver Ring and to the periphery and you know where there weren't people and I'd even I'd I'd I'd watch sometimes from the roadside and I'd I'd I'd I'd funk going through the turnstiles because I'd you know I'd have to meet somebody, you know, going I'd have to hand over some money to go in and you know, and the man would look at me and think, oh dear, what's the matter with him? you know, so.

Peter O'Sullevan21:34

I had a I went through a very lonely period, I suppose, really.

Presenter21:39

So what happened, Peter, then? Wha how did you get out of this awful introverted

Presenter21:45

Way of life.

Peter O'Sullevan21:46

Well, at the outset of the war, or before the war really even started, I was medically graded out of the services. So I changed my car for a four-seater and I evacuated families to the country. And then when I'd run out of my slender resources, I joined the rescue services in Chelsea.

Peter O'Sullevan22:13

And I found that uh when the raid started that uh most people were very apprehensive. I wasn't in the least bit apprehensive uh and was absolutely impervious to danger. I thought to be amazingly daredevil and courageous on that account, but it was just that I didn't really care.

Peter O'Sullevan22:29

I while everybody else was apprehensive, I'd my my condition im improved enormously. It was psychological.

Presenter22:36

So basically, you gained your self-confidence because of what you did in the civil defense.

Peter O'Sullevan22:40

Okay.

Presenter22:42

And because you were winning what other people's respect, suddenly you thought you were.

Peter O'Sullevan22:45

Yes.

Peter O'Sullevan22:46

I found that, uh, you know, that um yeah, I could mix freely and uh

Peter O'Sullevan22:53

And uh yes, I suppose I was uh respected on that account, for n not for the right reasons, but I was.

Presenter23:00

Flex piece of music.

Peter O'Sullevan23:02

Well, I had the very good fortune in the nineteen sixties to hear Ella Fitzgerald and Oscar Petersen on the same bill at uh a gala evening at the Palace Hotel at Gestad. And so th they would revive happy memories.

Speaker 423:21

Life is lonely again.

Speaker 423:27

And only last year everything seemed so sure Now life is awful again

Peter O'Sullevan23:40

Uh

Speaker 423:44

A drople of hearts could only

Presenter23:47

Maybe

Presenter23:50

Ella Fitzgerald and Oscar Peterson with Lush Life. You've been a a a keen punter, as we've said, Peter, all your life, ever since those postal orders at boarding school that you sent off to Glaswegian book it. Um what's the biggest win you've ever had?

Peter O'Sullevan24:06

Not big enough, I know that. But it's a question I should be able to answer, but I simply can't. So I'd be very happy to answer it, but I don't know.

Presenter24:15

What are your personal rules, though? Obviously, never bet more than you're prepared to lose, but do you have a minimum bet or a maximum bet?

Peter O'Sullevan24:20

No. No, I I think it's mad to to restrict oneself really. I think as long as you you follow the basic tenet that you you don't uh play with money you you can't afford to pay, I mean you don't uh have credit bets that you won't be able to settle. Uh I think it's silly to limit oneself. Some people say you should never bet odds on, but uh on the other hand you might have an opportunity of laying eleven to ten to ten on a a horse that you think should be should be ten to one on.

Presenter24:47

Hmm.

Peter O'Sullevan24:47

So I think it's silly to ma make any rules.

Presenter24:49

So you've had a four figure bet in your time?

Peter O'Sullevan24:53

I'd have to say that.

Presenter24:55

Overall, over your betting career, do you think you've lost? Are you up or are you down?

Peter O'Sullevan25:00

Uh I d I don't think I've come out too badly. But mind you, any punter will tell you that.

Presenter25:04

Well quite.

Peter O'Sullevan25:05

Trying to get

Peter O'Sullevan25:06

What?

Presenter25:06

Flutter

Peter O'Sullevan25:08

Oh, I think um I I I think I might have just made it pay.

Presenter25:12

But John Oakesy says you'd like as much to be remembered as a tipster as a commentator, is he right?

Peter O'Sullevan25:18

Yes, I think um well, I think I I'd as soon be remembered as a as a as a racing journalist uh as a as a commentator. I don't know about the tipping. Tipping, you know, never really uh appealed to me very much because uh I felt so responsible. If one had uh one developed uh a few followers and uh you know you've let them down it uh it was worrying. I d I don't mind uh l losing my own money. I'd rather not lose it. But I mean, I don't mind losing it. But it's losing other people's, you know, can can can can be rather rather distressing. No, I'd like to be remembered uh as a racing journalist that um

Peter O'Sullevan25:55

hopefully um entertained uh a few readers during during his time.

Presenter25:59

Next piece of music, Peter.

Peter O'Sullevan26:02

Well, a classic uh classic bit of jazz, marvelous bit of writing, Dave Rubrik and take five.

Presenter27:10

Dave Brubeck and his quartet playing Take Five. Let's talk about some of your campaigns, Peter. You played a large part, I think, in getting the use of the whip restricted, didn't you?

Peter O'Sullevan27:20

Yes, I'm

Peter O'Sullevan27:22

It it it began to offend me the extent to which it appeared to be used as an instrument of uh chastisement rather than encouragement, and I felt that this should be brought home to ride not just to riders, but to uh to owners and trainers, because after all it's uh it's they who who give instructions.

Presenter27:41

Then there was the campaign to make Beeches Brook safer. What was wrong with it?

Peter O'Sullevan27:45

Well, I felt that it was uh

Peter O'Sullevan27:48

It was it was very unfair that uh the ground on the landing side was so much lower than the take-off side, so that it was a a trap.

Peter O'Sullevan27:57

the the brook fulfilled no purpose other than that it was a part of history.

Peter O'Sullevan28:03

And horses used to fall back into the brook and it was very difficult to get them out.

Presenter28:07

But Peter horses still die over the sticks. I mean, again, especially in the Grand National, don't they? I often wonder if

Peter O'Sullevan28:10

Yeah.

Presenter28:14

Broadcasters should be quite so willing to cover all that side of it up.

Presenter28:19

The cameras never go back, do they, to show the horse that's actually

Peter O'Sullevan28:19

Cameras never

Presenter28:24

you know, broken its leg and is gonna be shot.

Peter O'Sullevan28:27

Well, I don't think seriously this is a part of the uh of the outside broadcast, you know, to to to dwell on on the on unhappy accidents any more than in in a in a motor race that you know that uh uh you you continue to go with the action, don't you, you know, when when uh something sp spin spins.

Presenter28:50

Yes, but it's still mentioned, obviously, if a human being dies, it's mentioned. Somehow you can have a horse where, you know, you're you're singing his praises and saying what a courageous

Presenter28:59

animal he is one minute and the next minute w you can just spot if you watch quickly that he's fallen and it looks pretty, pretty dire.

Peter O'Sullevan29:08

I don't think you'll find there's ever a case in which it is known that that that a horse has perished when it it isn't uh indicated before the end of the broadcast. Of course, it it it very often happens that uh uh you don't know.

Peter O'Sullevan29:22

that uh that an accident has has been fatal.

Presenter29:26

Record number seven.

Peter O'Sullevan29:28

Well, I think one of the most felicitous marriages in music is Yehudi Menuin and Stefan Grapelli.

Speaker 430:30

Yeah.

Presenter30:35

Yehudi Menowin and Stephan Grappelli playing The Lady is a Tramp. When is your last race as a commentator, Peter?

Peter O'Sullevan30:42

The finale is november twenty ninth at uh Newbury, the Hennessy Girl Cup.

Presenter30:48

And how emotional a moment will that be? Can you tell?

Peter O'Sullevan30:51

Well

Peter O'Sullevan30:53

And yes, I guess that'll be quite an emotional occasion for me, really. Yes, but I just feel so.

Peter O'Sullevan31:01

grateful and so lucky, you know, to to have got that far, assuming I do get that far. We got what, a couple of months to go now, haven't we?

Presenter31:08

But in a sense, will it be a great release?'Cause you won't stop going to the races, I presume.

Peter O'Sullevan31:12

Oh no, it won't be uh in any sense a release because uh

Peter O'Sullevan31:18

As you say, I shall still go racing, I shall still pursue various objectives in racing.

Peter O'Sullevan31:24

Uh

Presenter31:25

What, winning a lot of money, you mean?

Peter O'Sullevan31:26

Well, I I've been lucky enough uh so in my life to have had forty winners in my Undistinguished Colors. Uh everything seems to have developed around the half century mark. Uh

Peter O'Sullevan31:39

Certainly, broadcasting-wise, and in other areas. So, um

Peter O'Sullevan31:45

I'd like to get I have another ten winners that that'll be something to focus on as well.

Presenter31:48

How many horses do you own at the moment?

Peter O'Sullevan31:50

Add one, two halves, two halves.

Presenter31:54

Two back ends or two front ends. Last record.

Peter O'Sullevan31:55

Yeah.

Peter O'Sullevan31:58

Well, it's always a difficult one, isn't it? You know, I mean, I feel on this desert island there might be no birdsong, and and birdsong is is is the is the music which touches my heart more than any other. And so if it was going to be sort of like Birdless Grove was at Goodwood, you know, and have no birds, then then then I then I would like a recording of birdsong. On the other hand, if there were birds, I decided that as a musical ignoramus, I should give myself a chance.

Peter O'Sullevan32:31

of hearing a sound which would not only evoke memories of teenage visits to Henry Wood concerts at Queen's Hall, but but might alleviate my my ignorance and therefore quicken my appreciation of music.

Presenter33:51

Vladimir Ashkenazi and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra playing part of Beethoven's piano concerto number five in E flat major, The Emperor, conducted by Sir George Schulte. Now, if you could only take one of those eight records, Peter, which one would it be?

Peter O'Sullevan34:06

Well, do you know

Peter O'Sullevan34:09

Having heard that, if I'm not going to develop uh musical appreciation after listening to it, there's no hope for me. I think I better think I better take this.

Presenter34:21

The Beethoven. And what about your book as well as the Bible and Shakespeare?

Peter O'Sullevan34:25

I would like to take ends and means by Aldous Huxley.

Peter O'Sullevan34:30

Because it's a three hundred and thirty page uh philosophical treatise, and it's subtitled uh

Peter O'Sullevan34:37

An inquiry into the nature of ideals and into the methods employed for their realization.

Peter O'Sullevan34:44

And I'd I'd be intrigued to read it again.

Presenter34:46

What about your luxury?

Peter O'Sullevan34:49

I I'm very, very susceptible to um mosquitoes, and so I would very much uh like to take uh a spray that would uh inhibit their activity without obviously upsetting the ecological balance of my island.

Presenter35:07

It's a bit practical for us, really, Peter. What wouldn't wouldn't you like a nice bottle of Calvados instead? I mean, you you wouldn't feel the bites if you'd like to.

Peter O'Sullevan35:13

I'd love a bottle of Calvados to go with it.

Presenter35:17

Well, we'll um we'll give you a bottle and we'll put something in it. We'll argue about it later.

Presenter35:22

Peter O'Sullivan, Sir Peter O'Sullivan, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Peter O'Sullevan35:27

Thank you, Sue.

Speaker 235:36

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co. uk slash radio four.