Saeed Jaffrey

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety seven, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:31

My castaway this week is an actor. Born in India of a well-to-do family, he never wanted to do anything else but perform. After university in Delhi, he went to America as a Fulbright Scholar and became the first Indian to appear in a major role on Broadway. And that first Indian epithet followed him to England, where in a succession of television and film performances, Jewel in the Crown, Gangsters, My Beautiful Laundrette and A Passage to India among them he's become the first actor from his background to be awarded the OBE.

Presenter1:02

Big in Britain and huge in India, where he's the star of many a Bollywood epic, he retains a belief in many of the precepts of his original Moslem faith. I believe in the wisdom of God, he says. If you are a good man, the Governor will look after you. He is Saeed Jaffrey. And the the Governor's done you quite well, really, hasn't he, Saeed?

Saeed Jaffrey1:23

He has he has all the Everests that I had dreamed of climbing. He has tested my muscle power, of my soul as well as my physical muscle power.

Saeed Jaffrey1:35

But he has

Saeed Jaffrey1:37

Made me achieve all those Everests.

Presenter1:39

So therefore you must be a good man.

Saeed Jaffrey1:42

I hope I am.

Saeed Jaffrey1:44

I think it's very important to retain the curiosity of a child for any artist.

Saeed Jaffrey1:51

Ah, however old.

Saeed Jaffrey1:52

and also the soul that the governor gave you.

Saeed Jaffrey1:55

If you have these two, then you can't go wrong.

Presenter1:59

The character we normally think of you as, I think, is the the the kind of Indian entrepreneur, you know, a bit of a rogue, a bit like Jimmy Sharma in Tandoori Nights or Nasser in Laundrette. You know, naughty but nice, I think, are the sort of descriptions that have been do they bear any resemblance to the real Said Jaffrey?

Saeed Jaffrey2:12

Some descriptions.

Saeed Jaffrey2:17

And um

Saeed Jaffrey2:20

The the mischief part of it is probably there.

Saeed Jaffrey2:23

But um

Saeed Jaffrey2:25

I suppose naughty but nice. Then I d I don't know. It's up to you. A bit of a rogue. Are you a bit of a rogue?

Presenter2:28

Yeah.

Speaker 22:28

Yeah.

Presenter2:29

Bit of a rogue. Are you a bit of a rogue?

Saeed Jaffrey2:32

I don't know whether I am a bit of a rogue.

Presenter2:34

Are you an entrepreneur?

Saeed Jaffrey2:36

Uh no, I'm not. I'm not an entrepreneur. Uh money has been the least important object in my life.

Presenter2:43

But you've made a lot of it. Bye.

Saeed Jaffrey2:44

I'm all right, I'm quite comfortable. But money has never been the the main uh reason for, you know, appearing in anything.

Presenter2:52

What was the first role that you played on Broadway?

Saeed Jaffrey2:56

Um Professor Godbully.

Saeed Jaffrey2:58

in A Passage to India, directed by Donald McQuinney with the late Eric Portman, Dame Gladys Cooper, in it. And there's a lovely line in it where misses Moore says to Professor Godwald, I hear, Professor, did you sing?

Presenter3:00

And

Saeed Jaffrey3:13

Um will you sing for us now?

Saeed Jaffrey3:16

And I said, Yes, I will sing.

Saeed Jaffrey3:19

So I thought what a wonderful opportunity to actually sing something from Indian classical music.

Saeed Jaffrey3:25

So I translated it into the sort of vernacular, um Hindi, uh which would be used for a hymn called bhajan, and uh and set it in the Ragpuri Adhanashri. And as luck would have it, when we were rehearsing, I found out that my friend from my Indian radio days, Rabbi Shankar, was in town. So I rang up the hotel where he was, and he said, Oh, I'm sorry, but Mr Shankar checked out about half an hour ago.

Saeed Jaffrey3:52

So I said, Well, where has he gone? So he said, Oh, to the airport So I paged him at the airport and I said, Ravi, what a wonderful opportunity this is. You know, I'm actually getting to sing Ragpuri as an Ashri, so I'll sing it for you.

Saeed Jaffrey4:05

And uh you just correct me. Anything wrong, just let me know.

Saeed Jaffrey4:09

And I sang it, More Sankero hai Krishna Kanhari, Sabgopien Sankhero Krishna Murari, Parai group More Sankero, Krishna Kanahari. But you sang it. But I sang it. So he said, Yes, you're right. And

Saeed Jaffrey4:20

All the very best. Sing it every night and think of me also.

Saeed Jaffrey4:26

And I did. And then the Saturday Review critic made my life. He said, When Sayyidina's Professor Godwald sings the Hindu hymn, we are no longer in the concrete jungle of New York, but are transported to an ageless and beautiful India.

Presenter4:38

So you can sing too, my goodness. There is no end to your talents. I think we should have your first record.

Saeed Jaffrey4:40

Two more talents.

Saeed Jaffrey4:43

Yes, this this is the one. So um it's ravishankar and Ragpuriatanachri.

Speaker 44:55

Uh

Speaker 45:09

Yeah.

Presenter5:47

Part of the Rag Puriya Dhana Shri, with Ravishanka on Sita, Chatur Lal on Tabla. So your parents, Saeed Jaffrey, didn't fully approve of your becoming an actor, did they?

Saeed Jaffrey5:58

No, um well, my mother wanted me to be an ambassador.

Saeed Jaffrey6:03

or some at some t point. And in fact, when we were doing the passage to India, it was at the Ambassador Theatre on Broadway, and I'd got reviews. So I sent all these reviews to my parents, and my mother wrote back, and she said, you know, if you had listened to me and joined the Indian Foreign Service, you might have been an ambassador. So I wrote back and I said, in a modest way, mummy, I am, but in a different way.

Presenter6:28

But the talent was in the family, the talent for me.

Saeed Jaffrey6:29

'Twas it

Saeed Jaffrey6:30

The talent came o all of that came from my mum. She was a marvellous mimic.

Presenter6:34

Who did she mimic?

Saeed Jaffrey6:35

Anybody, I mean, she used to go to a party and then we were children, she'd come back and she'd mimic everybody. So it was as though we were at the party ourselves. My father, once I once I'd done the MA in history, uh not from Delhi University but from Ilhabad University, which used to be the Oxbridge at that time of India, he knew that I'd fulfilled my obligation and that was it, that I wanted to become an actor.

Presenter6:57

What did he do?

Saeed Jaffrey6:58

He was a he was a doctor, he was a medical officer, and uh he toured this province of UP, which was in fact in retrospect a very good thing because it took me to Muslim schools, Hindu schools, Church of England schools, Irish Catholic schools and things.

Presenter7:00

And

Presenter7:13

And did you entertain the boys at these schools, the other boys, which are impersonations?

Saeed Jaffrey7:15

Yeah.

Presenter7:19

But your your acting apart, your your ability to impersonate people, I think is a talent you use socially. They tell me you do a mean David Lean.

Saeed Jaffrey7:31

In fact, uh David Lean, I'll I'm talking to David Lean, I'll never forget the moment. It was uh David Lean had sort of aged quite a lot. It was not a very pleasant experience really, and only David Lean could make Peggy Ashcroft cry, and she cried on my shoulder. Do you know what I mean? Peggy, find a place for yourself to sit down somewhere.

Saeed Jaffrey7:53

And he he'd be looking uh visually at everything. So at the uh press conference, a white British critic from the back, he said, All that is very well, Sir David.

Saeed Jaffrey8:05

But what prompted you in the eighties to cast Alleginesists at Professor Godwilly when you had Saeed Jaffrey with you?

Saeed Jaffrey8:13

I didn't know what to s say, you know, but it was a wonderful moment.

Presenter8:19

But you didn't like him very much, patently.

Saeed Jaffrey8:19

Then you

Saeed Jaffrey8:22

No.

Saeed Jaffrey8:23

Because he had no respect for actors.

Presenter8:26

Didn't he?

Saeed Jaffrey8:26

You know, yes, and he he was so lucky, I mean, in all his classics.

Saeed Jaffrey8:31

you know, a brief encounter and

Saeed Jaffrey8:33

Lawrence of Arabia and think like he had these all these marvellous actors.

Saeed Jaffrey8:37

who sort of carried it for him.

Presenter8:39

Record number two.

Saeed Jaffrey8:40

Record number two is a Cliff Richards singing Summer Holiday.

Saeed Jaffrey8:45

Sir Cliff Richard now. The reason for that is that Cliff Richard comes from the same town, Lucknow, where, you know, the chess players was filmed in Lucknow. And our family, that was sort of our became our home. When I got the OBE, that was the time in 95 that Cliff Richard was also was awarded a knighthood, very deservedly. Lovely man.

Saeed Jaffrey9:07

And let's listen to his summer holiday. Body head.

Speaker 49:12

As a summer holiday Doing things I always wanted to So we're going on a summer holiday To make our dreams come true

Speaker 49:26

Mommy and you

Presenter9:32

Cliff Richards singing Summer Holiday and Memories of Lucknow. How long did it finally take you to win your parents over? Was there a moment when they were finally persuaded you'd made the right choice?

Saeed Jaffrey9:43

Well, they knew that I was going to follow my own instinct about it. And uh nineteen seventy three

Saeed Jaffrey9:50

I was in Lucknow and I was spending the evening with a friend of mine who ran a drama school.

Saeed Jaffrey9:56

And he said, You've never done anything for me, Said

Saeed Jaffrey9:59

So I said, Look, get me your Shakespeare, get me your Tennessee Williams, get me your Oscar Wilde and things like that. I'll arrange a programme now and I'll do it for you tomorrow on New Year's Day.

Saeed Jaffrey10:09

And uh so I did a one-man show and I invited my father, who had only seen me once playing w a Mughal Prince at the age of ten, uh years back, but since then had never seen me on the stage. And during the interval I said and this programme written tonight is devoted to the man who had total faith in me and let me do what I wanted to do, and that is my father who was sitting over there. And after that he was just so thrilled by that. And then he kept a log book of all the things that appeared in the press about me and everything like that. He was very proud.

Presenter10:42

Mm-hmm.

Presenter10:44

Now, it was in that um company for India Radio that you met the woman who was to become your wife, Madda Jaffrey. Well, describe that meeting to me.

Saeed Jaffrey10:53

Their very first play with it was The Eagle Has Two Heads by Jean Cocteau.

Saeed Jaffrey10:59

Now I was playing Azrael, the part that Marlon Brandu played on Broadway, and there's a part of the Queen's Reader in it. And about three or four days before the opening, the girl who was playing that eloped with her lover, and we didn't have anybody to to play that. So one of the members of the of the group said, Look, my cousin is a very good actress and she isn't at Miranda House in Delhi University.

Saeed Jaffrey11:25

And so along came Madur.

Saeed Jaffrey11:28

And uh read the part and uh did it brilliantly, and then we did many things together.

Presenter11:34

Including falling in love.

Saeed Jaffrey11:34

Including

Saeed Jaffrey11:36

Including fall in love.

Saeed Jaffrey11:38

And then I went to America and

Saeed Jaffrey11:41

We got married and we moved to New York.

Presenter11:44

And you had three children?

Saeed Jaffrey11:45

We have three daughters.

Presenter11:47

But six years after that the marriage came to an end and I think you were pretty devastated when it did, weren't you?

Saeed Jaffrey11:53

Yes, I was. And fortunately a part brought me to the part of Hindu god Brahma brought me to England.

Saeed Jaffrey12:04

Madhur then, you know, stayed on in New York and m married a chap that she um a black musician.

Saeed Jaffrey12:12

And the children s obviously stayed with her and I moved to to London.

Saeed Jaffrey12:18

And made London my home.

Presenter12:20

Record number three.

Saeed Jaffrey12:21

Record number three is uh

Saeed Jaffrey12:24

Debussy's Claire Delune.

Saeed Jaffrey12:27

And I'll tell you a little story about this.

Saeed Jaffrey12:31

When I was in New York, I went to the WQXR station and I said, I've got programmes on Britain, we've got programmes on Spain, this, that, and the other. What about a program in India?

Saeed Jaffrey12:41

He said, Oh, that's quite a good idea, you know, but this is a classical Western music station, so uh you know, all that wah wah wah Indian music I don't want to lose our listeners. So I said, You just give me a chance. So I ended the whole day

Saeed Jaffrey12:59

by a a moonlight picnic in Delhi where they were playing the music claire d'allune.

Saeed Jaffrey13:06

And

Saeed Jaffrey13:07

At the end of the first programme, I got seven hundred and eighty-nine letters saying this is the most marvellous programme we have ever heard.

Saeed Jaffrey13:16

But why are you playing Western classical music?

Saeed Jaffrey13:20

So I took these letters to my boss and I said, Now can I have Indian music please? And I did and the programme ran for two years. So please listen to Debussy's Claire Deluxe.

Presenter14:25

Part of Debussy's Claire de Lune, performed by Tomash Vachery.

Presenter14:29

So, Said Geoffrey, you came uh to this country in nineteen sixty six from the States, leaving your wife behind there. Um you weren't known here at all, were you? When when did things begin to take off for you?

Saeed Jaffrey14:42

1974.

Saeed Jaffrey14:44

And I don't regret all those years of struggle. You know, thank God radio was my my ally.

Presenter14:50

But you worked in Harrods as well, didn't you?

Saeed Jaffrey14:51

Yeah, but after seventy three, in the whole year I had only one program, uh Black Beauty, on television. So I somebody said, Well, why don't you work in Harrods? So I worked in Harrod as selling Christmas decorations. And it used to be very embarrassing because I didn't want people like Ingrid Bergman that I had um been in the West End with to feel sorry for me. So somebody said, Oh, Ingrid Bergman's in in in the stores, Oh, really? So I would go round and looking like a punter and they said, Oh, darling, Said, how lovely to see you. Have you c come to buy a parrots? and so on, you know. So I had about a couple of quid in my pocket probably. But all that ended in February 1974.

Saeed Jaffrey15:33

And within one week it was Goodbye Harrod, travelling first class with Michael Kane, Sidney Poitre and Nicole Williamson for a film called The Will Be Conspiracy, and flying to Nairobi.

Saeed Jaffrey15:44

And that same year I met my present wife, Jennifer, and she was a stabilizing influence in my life.

Saeed Jaffrey15:52

She was the one who.

Saeed Jaffrey15:53

Uh put money aside in the building society, in the bank and all that. Otherwise, I was I was living.

Presenter15:58

Taught you how to be sensible.

Saeed Jaffrey15:59

Sensibly it's

Presenter16:00

But but your hero, if I'm right in thinking all the while, was Laurence Olivier.

Saeed Jaffrey16:05

Yes, absolutely. And I mention

Saeed Jaffrey16:08

And that was a lovely moment too, because there in the buffet line for Second Helpings was this gentleman in dark-rimmed glasses, looking more like a banker in in a striped suit than uh the greatest actor of the century. And I'd had about four or five champagne, so I said, Sir, I don't care how many people have told you this, but by your very presence and by your talent and by your achievements, you first informed, then shaped the life of another human being five thousand miles away in India. And for that I want to thank you. Suddenly he had tears in his eyes. And he took my hand and placed it on his chest, and I kissed it like one would uh a guru's hand and things like that. I am deeply, deeply touched.

Speaker 216:40

Uh

Speaker 416:40

Yeah.

Saeed Jaffrey16:49

God bless you.

Saeed Jaffrey16:51

Wonderful.

Presenter16:53

Next record, number four.

Saeed Jaffrey16:54

Number four is Whitney Houston singing I Will Always Love You from the film The Bodyguard.

Presenter17:00

From the film.

Saeed Jaffrey17:02

I like fusions and blends of different cultures.

Saeed Jaffrey17:06

And she to me is a beautiful blend of white and black culture.

Presenter17:36

Whitney Houston singing I Will Always Love You from the film The Bodyguard. You're big in Britain, Said, as I said at the beginning, but huge in India. How much time do you spend out there, half the year?

Saeed Jaffrey17:47

Um

Saeed Jaffrey17:48

And who's

Presenter17:49

And and who are your fans? Are you mobbed?

Saeed Jaffrey17:51

Yes, I'm asked for autographs. The film that really established me was in 1985, and it opened on the 15th of August, which is India's Independence Day. And it was called Ram Teri Ganga Mali, Oh God, How Polluted Your Ganges Has Become. And by the way, on the same date, 15th of August, at Edinburgh, my beautiful launderette was discovered by the rest of the world. And it has arrested.

Speaker 418:15

So it's a good day for you, fifteen post.

Saeed Jaffrey18:17

So in eighty five. Uh so when the film was on, Jennifer and my wife was there and our driver s stopped at the traffic lights. So two little children said the uncle, uncle, eight rupee, one rupee please. If not ruined to money. So I was looking for some money to give them when uh

Saeed Jaffrey18:33

honey haired, honey skinned, and honey eyed girl, quite a beautiful girl, a beggar girl, came up and said spoke to me in Hindi, of course, but the translation was, I don't want a single penny from you.

Saeed Jaffrey18:46

You transported me to heaven with your performance in that film.

Saeed Jaffrey18:51

So I said, I won't insult you by giving you any money, but can I give you a kiss? And I gave her a kiss on her forehead and she flew into the air as though she'd been kissed by an angel. So these are my fans of

Presenter19:01

But as I understand it, you make several films at one time when you're out there doing this. You've got sort of four or five on the go. That's how you do it.

Saeed Jaffrey19:09

But that's how they do it, yes, because um

Saeed Jaffrey19:12

particularly if I'm coming over here for like Kandoori Nights for three months or something like that, or for this this one, for instance. I mean, before we started rehearsing this one, I worked solidly for about sixty hours or something like that with six hours sleep.

Saeed Jaffrey19:26

So it takes you back to the rep days, you know, when you were rehearsing one in the morning, playing one in the afternoon and third in the evening.

Presenter19:33

Your your lifestyle changes completely when you go out there because as I understand it you have chauffeurs and maids and your own makeup or all the things that sometimes you get here but not all of the time.

Saeed Jaffrey19:42

Yeah, which

Presenter19:43

Which do you prefer?

Saeed Jaffrey19:45

I always say this, and I mean it, that the quantity is there.

Saeed Jaffrey19:52

But the quality is still here.

Presenter19:54

Is it? Uh Yeah.

Presenter19:55

Record number five.

Saeed Jaffrey19:57

Record number five. Now, the um uh a few weeks ago they asked me on radio four.

Saeed Jaffrey20:03

To read some poems of this greatest Indian Urdu poet from the last century called Ghalib. And here is a lovely poem of his.

Saeed Jaffrey20:14

Pirmuje Didaye Tariyadaya.

Saeed Jaffrey20:18

Yet again I remembered her eyes full of tears, and it is sung by a lady called Lata Mangishkar.

Saeed Jaffrey20:26

Who has been singing for the last forty odd years, I think, and still sounds like a sixteen year old.

Speaker 420:41

E day.

Speaker 420:44

Very young.

Speaker 420:46

Aya Pirumu Chedi Dei Dariya Aya Dirji Verdi Shai

Presenter21:02

Part of the poem by Khaaleb Yet Again I Remembered Her Eyes Full of Tears sung by Lata Mangeshka.

Speaker 421:02

The poet

Presenter21:09

Um was it television, would you say, Said, really, that despite the films and the theatre you've done that brought you centre stage here in England as far as the public was?

Saeed Jaffrey21:17

Yes, Philip Saville's um film Gangsters.

Presenter21:21

Mm.

Saeed Jaffrey21:21

Uh for pebble mill.

Saeed Jaffrey21:23

Oh, I think. And then which then turned into a series.

Presenter21:25

Yeah, sort of mid-seventies onwards.

Saeed Jaffrey21:27

In the mid-seventies.

Presenter21:29

Yeah.

Saeed Jaffrey21:29

And as I said, you know, seventy four was the turning point. And around that time there was the Will Be Conspiracy, but more importantly was the John Houston classic, The Man Who Would Be King, that he'd been wanting to do as a film for twenty years.

Presenter21:44

With Sean Connery and Mikey Finn.

Saeed Jaffrey21:45

Sean Connery and Michael Kane.

Saeed Jaffrey21:48

And me being the third star in that. And we were filming in Morocco, and I shall never forget.

Saeed Jaffrey21:54

There was this American gopher, very sycophantic gopher, said, Ah, big John, here's your chair with your name on it and uh Sean, here's your chair with your name on it and uh Michael Caine, here's your chair with your name on it.

Saeed Jaffrey22:09

And Michael Kenton And where's Cyrick's chair? I was sitting on a stool.

Saeed Jaffrey22:13

So, oh, Michael, don't worry about it. You know, I mean, you know, these guys are used to all that.

Saeed Jaffrey22:19

So one day, two days, three days, fourth days when the chair didn't appear and I was still sitting on a stool.

Saeed Jaffrey22:25

Michael Gainsid, Come here, you racist gopher, where's Silic Bloody Chair?

Saeed Jaffrey22:31

and within fifteen minutes he brought the joke and name on.

Presenter22:34

But what's your your philosophy of acting, Side? Do you approach each role in much the same way just as professionally, obviously and properly? Or does it require something different from you each time? Is it a sort of huge effort on your part?

Saeed Jaffrey22:47

You know, everything goes into the computer.

Saeed Jaffrey22:50

you know, the human computer.

Saeed Jaffrey22:53

accents and gestures and all these sort of things. So here again I have to thank the governor, because by and large when I read a script,

Saeed Jaffrey23:03

The Governor just sort of presses the right button.

Saeed Jaffrey23:05

And so out of the vast experience that one has had of observing people and listening to people all over the world.

Saeed Jaffrey23:13

Um come to character.

Presenter23:15

And you say a prayer every day before work, don't you?

Saeed Jaffrey23:17

Yes, I think.

Presenter23:18

Yeah.

Saeed Jaffrey23:18

Great idea.

Presenter23:19

On set in front of everybody if it's a film.

Saeed Jaffrey23:21

And it's in the front wave where it's a private little thing. It just says, look, we've done the homework, Governor.

Saeed Jaffrey23:26

You bless us.

Saeed Jaffrey23:27

not just me, but uh all of us. The the workers, you know, the the cast and the crew and everybody. And usually it does, and makes uh the whole playing area rather

Saeed Jaffrey23:38

Um sacred.

Presenter23:41

Record number six.

Saeed Jaffrey23:43

Record R.

Saeed Jaffrey23:45

Honky-Tonk Train Blues, recorded way back in Chicago in 1935 by that wonderful pianist called Mead Lux Lewis. I discovered Mead Lux Lewis and Boogie Woogie and the blues when I was at Lahabad University, and I had an Anglo-Indian girlfriend who had been married to an American soldier. And she gave me a whole lot of these. They used to call them V discs. I don't know why they were called V discs, perhaps for victory or something. And there I discovered Mead Lux Lewis playing Honky Tonk Train Blues.

Presenter24:48

Mead Lux Lewis performing Honky Tonk Train Blues and that was recorded in Chicago in nineteen thirty five.

Presenter24:55

Now you're back on stage, Saeed, in Paul Scott's Staying On, which is a kind of coder to Jewel in the Crown, isn't it?

Saeed Jaffrey24:59

Yeah.

Saeed Jaffrey25:03

Frankie Bulleboy.

Presenter25:04

The manager of the manager.

Saeed Jaffrey25:05

The manager and friend of Tusker Smolley.

Presenter25:08

Tuscar Smalley and his wife.

Saeed Jaffrey25:10

and his wife's Lucy.

Presenter25:11

Lucy, who are, I think as one critic put it, caught like flies in amber. They've stayed on. It's twenty five years after partition and they're still trying to cling to that former lifestyle. Do you think it it captures the attitudes and the manners

Saeed Jaffrey25:24

Brilliantly. I think it's so beautifully observed. I think Paul Scott was a marvellous writer, because all the characters, Colonel Tuscar Smalley and Lucy, are so true to life. And but so so are the Indian characters that he's he's put in the in the thing, you know, Ibrahim the servant, Frankie Boulevoy, the his my avaricious and voracious wife.

Presenter25:46

Yes, but but also I mean, they're very different, those Indian characters, and that's the point, isn't it? The way in which different Indians reacted to those who stayed on, as it were. And your character, Frankie Bouleboy, feels a great compassion for them, doesn't he? He sort of wants to protect them from the way that India's

Saeed Jaffrey25:58

He sort of

Saeed Jaffrey26:02

Yeah.

Presenter26:02

Exactly.

Saeed Jaffrey26:02

Yes, exactly, exactly. And in fact, remembers in this lovely scene, if you you know, where he the Tuscus Modi and Frankie are remembering the old

Saeed Jaffrey26:13

days, you know, of the Raj.

Presenter26:15

Hmm.

Saeed Jaffrey26:15

In fact.

Presenter26:16

Your character, as I say, is very sympathetic towards them. How widely do you think that attitude was reflected among Indians after partition?

Saeed Jaffrey26:24

Very widely. I mean, I've always believed that there's been um a love affair between England and uh and India.

Saeed Jaffrey26:33

And which was somewhat

Saeed Jaffrey26:36

Contained

Saeed Jaffrey26:38

restricted when the Raj came along.

Saeed Jaffrey26:42

When the clerks and people came along and tried to boss India. And so it wasn't destroyed, it just sort of went underground.

Saeed Jaffrey26:50

But after we got our independence, the love affair came back again. If you go to India now, you'll find that there's not a single anti British feeling anywhere.

Presenter26:59

This is great respect for the

Saeed Jaffrey27:00

Great respect and the and uh the young boys and girls who are now going to India, it seems like they're from England they are rediscovering this love affair between the two cultures.

Presenter27:11

Reflect number seven.

Saeed Jaffrey27:12

Record number seven is Elton John singing Nikita, this Jennifer and I when we go to Rustington to see her father and her late mother.

Saeed Jaffrey27:24

We used to listen to this record and in the Sussex Downs somehow it sounded very, very nice. And I actually I ac I also in New York met the original Nikita, Nikita Khrushchev. But here Elton John is talking about this girl called Nikita, and I think you like the record.

Saeed Jaffrey27:43

Not

Speaker 427:43

Keat there is the other side

Speaker 427:49

Better give them love and time

Speaker 427:53

Count and testing soldiers in their role

Speaker 427:58

Oh no, not keep it on never know.

Presenter28:07

Elton John singing Nikita. So tell me, Said, about you on this desert island. You'll be all right, won't you?'Cause you can cook.

Saeed Jaffrey28:14

Oh yes, yes, yes.

Presenter28:15

Did my daughter teach you to cook?

Saeed Jaffrey28:17

No, mother was in a play in New York and even we had a maid and the three daughters are there. But I had the whole day to myself because I used to during that time I was only doing the radio programme, which used to at the most take two days or two nights of of my week. So I just said, You let me know what these different things are, cumin, coriander, and so on and so forth. Let me experiment. So I taught myself, in fact. And then years later, Jennifer, my wife, used to work for the BBC in Villiers' house and she wrote to her bosses and she said, Do you have programmes on all these different cuisines? Indian cuisines become so popular. Why don't we have a programme on that? I can only think of two people who can do it. One is my actor husband, Saeed Jaffrey, a gurma chef, if you like. And the other one he seems to think that the more qualified person is somebody who's already written a book, his ex-wife who lives in New York, and this is her address, and this is her phone number.

Presenter29:06

New York and this is a

Presenter29:09

And that's how it happens.

Saeed Jaffrey29:09

And that's how and then um uh f the we celebrated the success of Madhur's cookery ser first cookery series by Jennifer and I cooking Jennifer from her s uh cookery book and me my my own snow and inviting Madur and James Ivory and Ismail Merchant and asking them to give us marks. I got nine out of ten and Jennifer got eight out of ten.

Presenter29:34

Anyway, lots of cooking on the island if you can find anything to cook. Um but what about everything else? I mean, your your pastimes snooker, cricket, table tennis, eating and drinking I mean, they're pastimes you need to do with other people. You're going to be pretty miserable.

Saeed Jaffrey29:46

Yeah.

Presenter29:47

Will you try to escape?

Saeed Jaffrey29:49

Uh

Saeed Jaffrey29:51

I would try to escape yet.

Presenter29:53

You couldn't bear to be on your own for too long.

Saeed Jaffrey29:56

Um no, I couldn't. I I need an audience.

Presenter30:02

But the Governor would see you through, wouldn't he?

Saeed Jaffrey30:04

The Governor put

Saeed Jaffrey30:05

Might fly me out from there.

Presenter30:07

Uh

Presenter30:08

Right, last record.

Saeed Jaffrey30:10

Last record. Um so you remember a few years ago um when the lovely Norman Beaton was alive, Michael Abensetz had written a series for Channel Four called Little Napoleon, specially for Norman Beaton and myself. And our director was Rob Walker.

Saeed Jaffrey30:29

And a wonderful director, a wonderful series it was. And unfortunately, Norman died after that, so, no more.

Saeed Jaffrey30:37

But uh I discovered this wonderful

Saeed Jaffrey30:41

Black American singer.

Saeed Jaffrey30:43

Through Rob Walker.

Saeed Jaffrey30:44

John Lee Hooker and his performan The Hobo Bro.

Speaker 430:51

I'm going to start the whole born who

Speaker 430:57

I took a free train too

Speaker 430:59

Be my friend.

Speaker 431:01

Look.

Speaker 431:06

You know I ho-board, ho-board, hobo.

Speaker 431:15

Hold on.

Presenter31:21

John Lee Hooker performing Hobo Blues. Now if you could only take one of those eight records, Said, which one would it be?

Saeed Jaffrey31:27

Very difficult.

Saeed Jaffrey31:29

Um

Saeed Jaffrey31:31

Toss up between Mead Lux Lewis and John Lee Hooker.

Presenter31:34

So you're going for the blues, whichever way you go.

Saeed Jaffrey31:36

Love.

Presenter31:36

Yeah.

Presenter31:37

What about your book?

Saeed Jaffrey31:40

I thought of a lot of uh different books, uh, but I think the Divani Ghalib, which means the complete works of Ghalib the Urdu poet.

Saeed Jaffrey31:52

would be something that I could find new meanings and me new uh new nuances uh the more I read them.

Presenter32:01

And that luxury, what is it?

Saeed Jaffrey32:03

The luxury would be

Saeed Jaffrey32:06

A case of black labor?

Saeed Jaffrey32:08

And a case of Don Perignho?

Presenter32:09

Oh two luxuries. What about one case with half a one case half each? Half and half. Half and half.

Saeed Jaffrey32:10

Is it one of the one case half each?

Saeed Jaffrey32:15

Uh

Presenter32:15

Whiskey and the champagne.

Saeed Jaffrey32:17

Yeah.

Presenter32:17

And that would see you right, would it?

Saeed Jaffrey32:19

Yeah.

Presenter32:20

Saeed, Geoffrey, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island is.

Saeed Jaffrey32:23

It's been a great pleasure. Thank you.

Speaker 232:32

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co. uk slash radio four.