George Baker

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a recording of Desert Island Discs as it was being broadcast, rather than the studio recording.

Speaker 10:08

and for that reason you may hear some interference, and some degradation in the sound quality.

Speaker 10:14

For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1965.

George Baker0:28

Each week a well-known person is asked the question, if you were to be cast away alone on a desert island, which aid gramophone records would you choose to have with you?

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As usual, the castaway is introduced by Roy Plumley.

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How do you do, ladies and gentlemen? Our castaway this week is the singer and recording artist George Bay

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Maker.

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George, how well could you resign yourself to a castaway's existence? Oh, I think pretty well, Roy, because I have a philosophical turn of mind and uh

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I just knuckle down to the situation.

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As consolation, is there any one thing you would be happy to have got away from?

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Yes, perhaps the noise and bustle of modern traffic. Did you have any plan in choosing these eight records you're taking with you? Oh, yes, indeed. First of all, it's music I like, or the type of music I like. Secondly, some of the items form for me landmarks in my musical life. And thirdly, it embraces people whom I've known well and whose art I've admired. What's the first one?

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First one is by Harold Samuel.

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one of the greatest Bach players this country ever produced. You know, he knew the whole of Bach's keyboard music from memory.

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And then again in Harold playing this fugue of Bach's he reminds me of my early piano forty days, when in the two part and three part inventions of Bach and eventually the forty eight pillars and fugues, of which this is one that I could give a reasonable performance. And then another thing is, Harold Samuel was not only a good friend of mine, but he proposed me for the Savage Club fifty years ago.

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The fugue from Bach's Prelude and Fugue in C minor, played by Harold Samuel. What's your second choice?

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An excerpt from The Dream of Gerantris by Belgar.

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Now, I've chosen this particular music because I first heard it fifty-nine years ago in Liverpool.

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And the impression it made then has stayed with me all those years. The excerpt I have chosen from this work is leading up to that enormous and wonderful climax, Praise to the Holiest in the Height.

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An excerpt from Elgar's The Dream of Gerontius, Gladys Ripley and Hedel Nash as soloists, Sir Malcolm Sartent conducting.

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You mentioned hearing that for the first time in Liverpool, George. Is that where you were born? No, I was born in Buckham Head.

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You come from a musical family.

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Not specially musical, but my father was a very good amateur bass singer, and he was also the founder and conductor of the Burton Headley and Madrigal Society. How early in life did you start taking an interest in music? Oh, I should think about seven years of age when I tried to play the violin, not very successfully.

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And my father then tried me at the flute, but that wasn't much better.

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And he thought, Oh, well, he'd better try the piano.

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I took to it like a duck to water and uh from thence onwards I didn't seem to have much trouble. Yes. When you left school, did you start studying music right away? No. I was uh

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a clerk in one or two offices, but eventually I finished up in the uh

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Office of the Borough Treasurer in the Town Hall of Birkham Head. But your evenings were devoted to music? Oh, yes, entirely. In fact, I was an accompanist at a very early age, because I had spoken about my father being a singer. Well, he trotted me round to play for him.

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And then after a time I studied the organ and in fact I played my first church service at the age of fifteen.

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And then, at the age of sixteen, I became the organist and choirmaster of Woodchurch parish church, which is just beyond the borders of Birkenhead.

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and I continued at the organ for at two other churches, subsequently making a period of seven years in all, as a

Speaker 16:28

You know?

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Organist. Yes. And after that?

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I won a scholarship at the Royal College of Music, one of these open scholarships. Then I not only gave up playing the organ, but I resigned from the Town Hall of Buckingham and gladly resigned, because I didn't really like the job very much. Your scholarship was for singing, wasn't it? Oh, yes, entirely. In your early days as a singer, did you find it fairly easy to get engagements when you left the college? Well, yes, it was easy in in my case. You see, I started making gramophone records at the end of 1909.

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Well, when they came on the market I began to be known.

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fairly quickly, and therefore didn't.

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Have a great deal of trouble. But this was while you were still a student, wasn't it? Indeed. Whilst I was still at the college. Yes.

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Well, you served in the army in the First World War. Then for a number of years you appeared in musical comedy and operetta. Yes, I was in musical comedy and review for

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seven consecutive years and enjoyed it very much indeed.

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And then you switched to Grand Opera? Yes, eventually I went and was a guest performer with the one time British National Opera Company. I played only two parts for them. One was Papageno and the Magic Flute, and quite a number of performances.

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of Eskimo in common. And you played with the Carl Rosa? Yes, indeed. I played two parts for them. A few performances of Sharpless from Madame Butterfly, and oh, a lot of performances as Mephistopheles in Guno's Faus. In fact, the last operatic performance I ever gave was actually on my sixtieth birthday.

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In Hanley.

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You've done some valuable administrative work in in the musical field, with the Royal Philharmonic Society, for instance. Yes, I've been the honorary treasurer of the Royal Philharmonic Society for over thirty years. And you were with the B B C Music Staff. Yes, I was for a little over three years.

George Baker8:25

The

George Baker8:31

Here's how

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I was first of all Assistant Overseas Music Director, and uh in three months' time uh I was the Overseas Music Director. Well, we've talked about some of the highlights of your career. Let's break off for your next record.

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Well, the next one is is by De Bussy. I'd like the whole of Pellias in Melisan, but that's impossible. So to have uh a memory of Debussy and a flavor we'll have la premidie d'une form.

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conducted but by Monteur.

George Baker10:05

The opening of Debussy's Prelude à la Prui Midden Thorne.

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The love

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London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Monteau. Now, George, you started recording in 1909 while you were still a student. How did this happen?

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Well, I went to the Petifre place because I

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Thought I would like to get some work.

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and made a test. Nothing happened. I never heard anything from them for about twelve months.

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And then I was sent for. They heard me sing again, and they gave me a contract there and then.

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Well, I've got a good idea. It's uh it's not less than three thousand. Under all sorts of names. Under all sorts of names. In the old days, you see, there were not many people who made successful records, you know, on the acoustical recording.

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And uh therefore the greatest use was made of uh the few people who did make the records, and in order to vary their catalogue they gave us different names for different types of music.

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You did a lot of musical comedy records.

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Oh, a lot, a tremendous lot, s sometimes under my own name, and sometimes under

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Victor Conway, Leslie Milton, George Barnes, oh, heaps of names. There was a one of a duet, it's called Howard and Harrison, another set of duets, it's called

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Courtland and Jeffreys I was Walter Jeffreys, and all sorts of things went on at that time, as indeed they did go on at that time, even in the British Broadcasting Corporation.

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You also made a lot of children's records.

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Oh, well, yes. The children's records I've done the um

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The first two books of When We Were Very Young,

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the Humzu Pooh, and also the Alice in Wonderland records. And they took my name or rather the words and music took my name all round the world.

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Well, perhaps your your greatest success as as a recording artist has been in in Gilbert and Sullivan. You've recorded the whole G and S repertoire, haven't you?

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I've recorded the whole of the DNS repertoire once round on the acoustical method.

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Once round on electrical recording.

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And

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two thirds round on the on present day recording. In fact, the last uh opera we made was made only just over two years ago, and that was Ruddy Gore, in which I sang the part of Robin O'Cuddle.

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But you've never sung these roles on the stage with the Doily Cart Company. Not with the Doily Cart Company, no. When did you start broadcasting?

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Oh, nineteen twenty four

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None of Savoy Hill. Yes. And once again, everything.

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Opera Busical Comedy Auditorio.

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Well, everything under the sun is most extraordinary. Scenes from Shakespeare and

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one or two attempts at imitations and uh I I don't know what, really. I've done I've done opera, of course I've done musical comedy. With my wife, Olive Groves, we were two of the first in the songs of the shows, and that went on for some years, you know.

Speaker 113:13

Uh

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drifted along, as it were, with the tide of broadcasting. And television, of course, when it came. Yes, in the in the early days of television at Alexander Palace I did quite a lot there. But usually

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not in singing, in nearly all as an actor.

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Let's have record number four. What next?

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Well oh, this is a very nice one by Messager. Now, he was one of the

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Best composers of light music, Sullivan excepted, and uh this is a little tiny little French song taken from Veronique, and is sung by that immaculate artist, delightful singer, Dame Maggie Tict.

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Maggie Tote singing a song from Veronique.

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Now, George, you can look back on the musical world as it was at the the beginning of the century.

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A very different world from to day's.

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Are there more opportunities now or not?

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I should have said there were more opportunities to day. You see, in the old days there were more choral societies than there are today. Therefore a serious singer would have more opportunities to exhibit his art than he has to day in that direction. But there was no wireless and there was no television.

Presenter15:04

All they had as an adjunct to the ordinary concert world, or the opera world, or musical comedy,

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was making grammar phone records. And as I said previously, only very few people made them. Very few people's voices were suited to this. Well they were not suitable for the way records were taken on the acoustical recording. They wanted voices that impinged on the wax or would cause the needle to cut into the wax.

Speaker 115:25

Yep.

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Uh

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And there were not a great number of them about. Hence, as I said before, they ch chose so many names for these individuals.

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Would you say musical standards are higher today?

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Musical standards

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Uh orchestrally.

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A far higher.

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Musical standards, as far as musical appreciation is concerned,

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is far more widely spread than it was.

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The general standard of music is higher than it was.

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The individual standard of music

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is not so high as it was. In other words, there are fewer

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Outstanding Personalities

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Today the outstanding personality in the musical world is the orchestral conductor.

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Yes.

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You're doing a lot of writing these days.

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Well, I I write about people because I like people, and uh I write regularly for two monthly magazines.

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And then I've done a good deal of musical journalism, and I've actually

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written two books on singing. They're technical books, of course.

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Let's have your next record now. Number five we've got to

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Well, that's Icht Krollenicht, uh from the Dichteliebe, sung by Fischer Dischkow, one of the best leader singers we've ever known.

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From the benders help

George Baker17:11

All of the mercy.

George Baker17:14

Is the Lord's Leap is the Lord?

Speaker 117:50

Oh that I lost health.

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Uh

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Schumann's is Krollenicht, sung by Dietrich Fischer Diskow. What's your next record, George?

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Oh, I think I'd like to hear some of the

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Overtured to Demeister Singer, conducted by my dear friend John Barbaroli.

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You know, being on a desert island is all very well, but as I said earlier on, I'm a townsman, and this is a glorious piece of music about civic pride.

George Baker19:24

So Don Barbaroli and the Halley Orchestra, the closing passage of the Overture 2.

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to the Meister Singer.

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George, apart from music, what are your hobbies?

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Now, what are they? Well, I I'm a bit of a Shakespearean

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Semi-scholar. It's well known that I'm a cricket fanatic. Indeed. And uh

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That and taking coloured photographs, I think, is about the lot.

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Could you look after yourself on a desert island if you've got any hobbies that'll help you that way?

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My hobbies wouldn't help me on a desert island. Um I'm not a handyman in any way.

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If I can get anyone else to do the job for me, that is to say, looking after me, I I delighted. If I'm forced to look after myself, I've got a strong bump of self-preservation, and I've no doubt I would survive. Yes. Do you think that bump of self-preservation could guide you to making some kind of raft or craft? Oh, no. Oh, not at all. I'm not at all handyman. I don't put on washers on taps or anything like that. I'm absolutely useless at it. I've been useless all my life with my hands, and I've got out of an enormous lot of work.

Speaker 120:25

Oh no

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Splendid.

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Let's have another record.

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Well now this is um

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Rather an affectionate thing that I want to put in, not only to please myself, but to please my wife. It is a song.

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by Lisa Lehman called O Tell Me Nightingale, and it is sung by Olive Groves, who is my wife, and, if I may say so, I think she sings it beautifully. After all, said and done, she is an artist in her own right.

George Baker21:19

Oh, Timmy Nightingale and sweet mud.

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Therefore thy voice Uh Meanwhile.

Speaker 121:28

Why

Speaker 221:29

Yeah.

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What's the

Speaker 221:33

I'm not sure if I can do it.

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Uh Uh Uh

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Yeah.

Speaker 221:38

Uh

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We the life in love you're the dream.

George Baker22:07

Yeah.

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Philip Grove singing Oh tell me a nightingale

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And now your last record.

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Well, for the last record I'd like something from Carmen. I've mentioned that I'd played Escamillo in Carmen and this opening song it is the opening song from Act Two that I've chosen.

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It is from the set of records made and conducted by the late Sir Thomas Beacham.

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Now there was a man who really loved music, and his sense of paranache was absolutely marvellous.

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Yeah.

Speaker 122:54

La den son chance sur maria, la den son chance sur marie, la mond et lesis etimides, li sid, des breville, ce la mo.

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That goes f

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An excerpt from the Second Act of Carmen, conducted by Sir Thomas Beacham.

George Baker23:46

Wait.

Presenter23:47

With Victoria Dlove. So Uncle Liz. As well. One of the soloists. Uh

George Baker23:50

Uh

Presenter23:50

Uh Three or eight record. If you could have only one of that eight, which would it be?

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Well, the temptation, of course, is that I would like the record made by my wife. But, you know

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On second thoughts

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To be reminded of the absence of my wife would only cause me intense pain.

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Therefore I think I better set that aside and face reality. And to do so I would say that out of all the records I have chosen for this programme the one that would stay with me longest

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And remind me

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By faith

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is The Dream of Gerantius by Elgar.

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and one luxury to take with you.

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Oh, um

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Paper and pens you know, these self writing pens. I think I'd want paper and pens so that I scribble my thoughts, such as they may be.

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And one book, apart from the Bible and Shakespeare? Oh, that's very difficult. You see, my favourite author, the one who wears best for my taste, is Charles Dickens. You can't have an omnibus edition of Charles Dickens. It's the size of a wagonet. So I would say, well, the greatest number of Dickens books you can pack into one volume. Right. And thank you, George Baker, for letting us hear your choice of Desert Island Discs. Well, thank you, Roy, for inviting me.

Presenter25:17

And goodbye to you. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 225:27

The guest in today's recorded programme was George Baker. The interviewer was Roy Plumley and the producer Monica Chapman. On Saturday at 1.40, the castaway will be the horticulturist Dr. W.E. Schull Cooper. And next Monday at 10.1, we have our 750th programme in the series when our castaway will be Dame Margot Fontaine.

Speaker 125:55

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.