Gene Wilder

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety seven, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is an actor. A Jewish boy from Milwaukee. He was an awkward, self-conscious child prone to being bullied. The thing he enjoyed most was entertaining his sick mother, and this led to acting first on the stage and then in films. In the late 60s, he appeared in Mel Brooks' film The Producers, a wonderfully balmy story about a Broadway impresario who tries to produce a flop. It led to a string of highly successful appearances in films such as Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex But Were Afraid to Ask, and perhaps most famous of all, Blazing Saddles. He's also directed and starred in several of his own films. Now he's come back to two of his early loves, The Stage and England. Currently playing the lead in the West End production of Neil Simon's Laughter on the Twenty-third Floor, he is Gene Wilder. Jean, the play is about a television comedian and his troupe of gag writers, a situation which I think you've experienced in real life because you did a show not long ago for NBC, didn't you?

Gene Wilder1:27

Yes, a few years ago. And uh

Gene Wilder1:30

I did it because I I had this illusion or delusion.

Gene Wilder1:36

That it would be something akin to what Sid Caesar and Mel Brooks and Neil Simon went through and.

Gene Wilder1:44

And when I was asked to do

Gene Wilder1:46

what eventually was called something wilder.

Gene Wilder1:49

I thought, well, it'll be a lot of fun. And it wasn't, it was hell. Why?

Presenter1:53

Yeah.

Gene Wilder1:54

Because of the interference artistically from the networks, the interest that they have is in selling soap or raisins or cream cheese. And if it's selling well, then you're a success. And if it isn't selling well, then you're not.

Presenter2:09

But what it comes down to is, I mean, there is an analogy here with Loft on the Twenty-third Floor, isn't there? Oh, yeah.

Gene Wilder2:13

Oh yeah.

Presenter2:13

That in fact you've got people who run television stations telling writers and comedians how to do comedy.

Gene Wilder2:21

That's right. In nineteen fifty three, when our play uh starts, uh it had won every award on the air. But they wanted to go out to Indiana, Kentucky, Nebraska, Ohio, Wisconsin, make more and more money, sell more and more soap. So the studio watered down all the scripts. It broke Sid Caesar's heart. It crushed him. That the the control he had was slowly taken away from him until he couldn't do anything anymore.

Presenter2:49

But the most amazing thing is the calibre of writers he had around him, which is what Neil Simon is writing about.

Gene Wilder2:53

He had the best writers in America.

Gene Wilder2:56

Mel Brooks was they dragged him along because Sid Caesar said, I want this guy, give him fifty bucks a week and he he s he insisted on having Mel there, who ended up head writer. Woody Allen was one of the writers later on. Yeah.

Presenter2:57

Yeah.

Speaker 23:06

Hmm.

Speaker 23:07

Later on.

Speaker 13:08

Yeah.

Gene Wilder3:09

Louise Callan was the only woman writer. They had great writers, and at first they had full freedom, and then the network, NBC, just kept interfering.

Presenter3:16

Hmm.

Presenter3:17

Potentially.

Presenter3:19

The bosses thought they knew better. Um'twas ever thus. Um, I take it you prefer stage to television then?

Gene Wilder3:26

It's not that I prefer it. I I won't do television. I can't stand it. I mean, I'm not talking about doing something on the BBC.

Gene Wilder3:34

But network television, CBS, NBC, ABC, never again.

Presenter3:39

Forget it. Here's a new one. On this programme you get to go to a desert island all by yourself with just eight records to play. Tell me about the first one.

Gene Wilder3:48

It's Schubert's impromptu in E-flat major. And I I play this all the time because I can't be sad or depressed when I listen to this music. It just lifts my spirit.

Presenter5:00

Yenayondo playing part of Schubert's impromptu in E-flat major.

Presenter5:04

The world, I think, divides itself when you say the name Gene Wilder into those who immediately say blazing saddles and those who say the producers. Are you uh you don't like that. Are you any more proud of one than the other?

Gene Wilder5:17

Well, Producers was my first with Mel Brooks.

Presenter5:20

1967, isn't it?

Gene Wilder5:21

Yeah, isn't it a great thrill for you?

Presenter5:22

Why did he choose you?

Gene Wilder5:24

Well

Gene Wilder5:26

I was miscast in a play called Mother Courage and Her Children by Bertolt Brecht on Broadway, directed by Jerome Robbins.

Presenter5:29

But

Gene Wilder5:34

and the leading lady was Anne Bancroft. Her boyfriend at the time was Mel Brookes, and one day he said to me, Would you like to come to Fire Island, little island off of Long Island in New York?

Gene Wilder5:47

One weekend, and I'll read to you and Annie the first thirty pages of this screenplay I'm writing called Springtime for Hitler.

Gene Wilder5:56

And we did, and that changed my life.

Presenter5:58

It it was his first film, wasn't it, too? His first film.

Gene Wilder6:00

His first film, yes.

Presenter6:01

We should just say, for anybody listening who doesn't know the plot, as I say, it is balmier. It is about people putting on this play called Springtime for Hitler, which is.

Gene Wilder6:07

Yeah.

Presenter6:09

A gloriously tasteless piece of Nazi propaganda, really. And they're trying to.

Gene Wilder6:13

They're trying to they're hoping that it'll be a big bomb because they've oversubscribed. Everyone has invested like 250%. If it's a hit, they're going to have to pay off. But if it's a a failure and closes in one night, they can keep all the money.

Presenter6:28

And you bloom the accountant have worked all this out. And it doesn't work, needless to say.

Gene Wilder6:30

Yeah.

Gene Wilder6:33

Well, it h ends up being a big hit.

Presenter6:36

What was it like working with Brooks?

Gene Wilder6:38

Well, it was it was heaven on a stick for me and working with Zero Mistel at the same time because Zero

Gene Wilder6:45

For those of you who remember him from

Gene Wilder6:48

Well, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum and um the front he did it but on stage he was enormous. And he protected me like a mother hen. He watched over me and

Presenter6:53

Yeah.

Speaker 16:53

Uh

Gene Wilder7:01

We spent all our lunch hours together. We had a wonderful time.

Presenter7:04

And it was a marvellous beginning, as you say. And what's more, you got nominated for an Oscar. You'd have been thirty two years old. I I've I've read that you you willed the judges not to vote for you'cause you'd be terrified to go up on stage to receive it.

Gene Wilder7:16

Oh God, I was sitting there and my Mel and I went to a a a tuxedo rental shop.

Gene Wilder7:23

And he said, How much to rent a shirt?

Gene Wilder7:26

And they said $18, $18, I'm not spending $18 to rent a shirt. I'll wear my own my button-down shirt and I'll take off the buttons. So we rented ties, I rented a tuxedo, and we went there, and all I could think of was, oh, please, God, don't have me win. But then Mel did something that I've never seen before. When he got up to accept for best original screenplay, he said,

Gene Wilder7:50

And I want to thank Gene Wilder.

Gene Wilder7:53

And Jean Wilder,

Gene Wilder7:55

And Jean Wilder.

Gene Wilder7:57

And they all applauded and I said, Okay, I got mine, so I don't need any more than that.

Presenter8:02

And you cried.

Gene Wilder8:03

Inside I was crying, yeah.

Presenter8:06

Tell me about your second record.

Gene Wilder8:07

Well

Gene Wilder8:09

This is a little more difficult to explain.

Gene Wilder8:13

It's by Jacques Brel, it's called La Chanson de Vues Amand.

Gene Wilder8:19

I was in love at one time in my life, a long time ago, with a French girl in France, and because of the circumstances of my life, there was nothing I could do about it.

Gene Wilder8:31

But I became in love with things French from then on. I mean, when I say in love, it's probably more aware.

Gene Wilder8:39

of a French sensibility. I was aware of architecture and I was never aware of that before. In Manhattan straight lines, rectangles, and I became aware of curves. I became aware of wine. I'd never taken much interest in wine before. And I became aware of

Gene Wilder8:59

of songs.

Speaker 29:02

Bien sur mous desorges, Ventent de mour, c'est la mour fall.

Speaker 29:12

Mill le foie tu porit tun bagange.

Speaker 29:18

Mill le foie ze prime non form

Speaker 29:23

And cha que marble se souvien, dans cétus chambo sans ver sau desi colla

Presenter9:31

That was Jacques Brel and La Chanson de Vieux Amon.

Presenter9:35

Tell me then, G. Marjorie, about this difficult childhood of yours. Milwaukee in the late thirties and forties, awkward, self-conscious, and fat. I cannot imagine the latter.

Gene Wilder9:44

Well, let's say if it'll help you any not fat, but delightfully plump, chubby enough so that I could be made fun of hey, fatso, hey, fatty, if someone wanted to be cruel to me.

Presenter9:58

But you've n not been fat ever since we've known you, since you've been in the public. I mean, you are incredibly not to say thin, perhaps.

Gene Wilder10:00

I mean you are incredibly

Gene Wilder10:05

I was ele I was nine, ten, eleven years old, but

Presenter10:08

And he saw

Gene Wilder10:10

If children want to be cruel they'll find a way.

Gene Wilder10:13

Your size is the easiest one.

Presenter10:15

But you were apparently b bullied or not liked. There are all sorts of phrases you've said about yourself. You were the most unpopular kid in the school. You weren't accepted by the others.

Gene Wilder10:25

Well, part of that time was when I was at Military Academy, and I was the only Jewish boy in the school.

Gene Wilder10:32

I got beaten up or insulted or whatever. But, um

Gene Wilder10:38

I got my own back later on, just by

Gene Wilder10:42

Them being able to say, Didn't I know that guy? Look at Oh, isn't he wonderful? The guy who I used to pound silly until he was black and blue. Oh, yeah, I was friends with him.

Presenter10:52

And your mother was lively and energetic and all those things one.

Presenter10:57

Hopes a mother will be until she had a heart attack. And that not only changed her life, but it seems to have changed yours too.

Gene Wilder11:02

We changed mine. I you know, it's scary to to think, I don't know what I would be doing now.

Gene Wilder11:09

Uh but

Gene Wilder11:12

She had a heart attack, the doctor said.

Gene Wilder11:15

You must never get angry with her, or you you could kill her.

Gene Wilder11:20

Which was a horrible thing to say to a child. And the other thing he said was try to make her laugh. And I did.

Gene Wilder11:28

For the first time in my life, I consciously tried to make someone laugh. And I was successful. And you know, when you're successful with your mom.

Gene Wilder11:37

You get a confidence that nothing else can give you.

Presenter11:40

But whenever you got angry, you got frightened.

Gene Wilder11:45

Oh, I I had a difficult time and it led me into psychoanalysis for a long while, years later, uh when I realized that

Gene Wilder11:55

Maybe my troubles are simply that I'm sick and uh

Gene Wilder11:59

And I need help, but I could not express the anger, the physical aggression, hostility.

Gene Wilder12:07

To a woman, to someone I loved, and it would poison my relationships.

Gene Wilder12:13

Cause

Gene Wilder12:15

A woman would say to me, Don't you

Gene Wilder12:18

Respect me enough to get angry with me.

Gene Wilder12:21

which was devastating and devastatingly true.

Presenter12:27

Tell me about record number three.

Gene Wilder12:28

Well, I was taught by um a famous songwriter once that there's only three things in a song as far as the music is concerned.

Gene Wilder12:37

Uh melody.

Gene Wilder12:39

Harmony and rhythm. That's all there is. And then, if you want to add the fourth, the lyrics.

Gene Wilder12:47

There is a fifth I found, and I found it in this song of something that great musicians do, jazz musicians and great actors do when they improvise. That the scene something has taken over and things are coming out of you that you don't

Gene Wilder13:03

even know are coming out, or you didn't plan on them coming out, but they're right and they're coming out. When I heard this I said, he's not only brilliant, but he's also an actor, Otis Redding.

Gene Wilder13:14

You'll see.

Speaker 213:15

You know she's waiting.

Gene Wilder13:20

Uh

Speaker 213:20

And just

Gene Wilder13:21

Hating

Speaker 213:24

Uh

Gene Wilder13:25

For things that you never, never, never, never possess yet.

Speaker 213:32

Uh

Speaker 213:35

Wow, she's there waiting.

Speaker 213:38

And without them

Speaker 213:40

Trying to get away from the map.

Speaker 213:42

Our little tender lamb.

Presenter13:47

Otis Redding and try a little tenderness. What was your first stage appearance then, Jean?

Gene Wilder13:53

My first part was as Balthazar, Romeo's man servant, in Romeo and Juliet. The second appearance was as the messenger in Much Ado About Nothing.

Presenter14:04

How old were you when you were doing this was school, was it?

Gene Wilder14:06

No, this was community theater. This was big time in Milwaukee. I was uh fifteen.

Presenter14:12

The physicality of your acting is important. I mean there is that sort of

Presenter14:15

Your body movements, there's a slapstick element to it, isn't there?

Gene Wilder14:19

Yes, I know you mean it as a compliment. I do. I know.

Presenter14:20

I do, I do.

Gene Wilder14:22

I try, I try, I try to tell the story. My teacher used to say, What would happen if you cut the sound?

Gene Wilder14:31

And no one could hear a word you're saying, on stage or in film.

Gene Wilder14:35

Would the story go on physically?

Gene Wilder14:39

Um, like a silent movie. Yeah.

Gene Wilder14:42

So I always try to tell the story as much physically as I can when I'm acting, whether it's the stage or screen.

Presenter14:47

You made it sound as if it all happened to you really quite easily. You know, becoming an actor, it didn't. It was a long, slow business. You didn't.

Gene Wilder14:56

When people say to me in London, young actors come up and say, What do you have to do? Or what do you think? What do I say? Just be prepared for rejection, because that's your second name.

Gene Wilder15:08

If you can't handle that, you're never going to make it.

Presenter15:11

And if you're Gene Wilder, you can't get angry even when you're being rejected.

Gene Wilder15:14

I can now.

Gene Wilder15:16

Finally.

Presenter15:17

Cost twenty-three thousand dollars, but I

Gene Wilder15:17

Cost twenty-three thousand dollars, but I can now.

Presenter15:20

Record number four.

Gene Wilder15:23

Um

Gene Wilder15:24

I heard this song by Hurricane Smith called O Babe, What Would You Say? And it made me laugh so much, and I told it to my then wife, Gilda Radner, before she died, when she was studying dance, and she surprised me one day.

Gene Wilder15:40

She had worked on it for four weeks with a choreographer and I came home, she put on the record and she did her dance routine to this song. So it has very happy memories of when she was healthy and bursting with energy.

Gene Wilder15:56

I could be so improved.

Gene Wilder15:59

With you.

Speaker 216:03

And I know that I could make you love me too.

Speaker 216:09

And if I could only hear you say you do

Speaker 216:18

But anyway

Gene Wilder16:18

Ah! Uh

Gene Wilder16:21

What would he say?

Presenter16:24

Hurricane Smith and Oh, Babe, what would you say?

Presenter16:27

You met Gilda, Gilda Radner, in nineteen eighty one and you married her in'eighty four, and she died five years later of cancer. It was an event which in many ways, again, something that changed the whole direction of your life, didn't it? You became Wilder the activist.

Gene Wilder16:44

I became wilder the

Gene Wilder16:48

The uh impassioned

Gene Wilder16:51

hopeful um dreamer, I suppose, that

Gene Wilder16:56

I could help other people.

Gene Wilder16:58

So they wouldn't have to go through what she went through to save other gildas.

Gene Wilder17:04

She had a cancer therapist in California named Joanna Bull.

Gene Wilder17:09

And there was a place in California, in Santa Monica, California, where she could be with other people who were in the same boat she was in, where she could scream and yell and laugh.

Gene Wilder17:17

tell all the things she was afraid of, share all the things she was feeling guilty about, and have the rapport with others in the same room telling about their lives with their husbands, their lovers, their children.

Gene Wilder17:31

with a therapist there to give social support, emotional support. We got to Connecticut, thought she was cured, she wasn't. It lasted for two months, uh the remission, and

Gene Wilder17:43

There was no place in the East for her to go to like that.

Gene Wilder17:47

And so

Gene Wilder17:49

It was sort of an unspoken

Gene Wilder17:51

promised to her that there would be such a place one day. I called Joanna Bull.

Gene Wilder17:58

To come East, we talked, and after four and a half years, finally.

Gene Wilder18:03

Really difficult times raising the money, finding a place, getting the help. And now the doors are open. It's a happy, cheerful, colorful place for anyone with cancer and their families, free of charge.

Presenter18:17

And is it true you want to set some up over here, or you've talked about it?

Gene Wilder18:20

I'm not involved now except to give uh moral support, but there will be a Gildas Club in London, and I expect quite soon.

Presenter18:29

And that was all born as well, I i if I read it aright, of your kind of sense of guilt, because you're not guilt.

Gene Wilder18:34

Not guilt, not guilt. Um

Presenter18:37

But you felt, didn't you, that you should have done more, that you you kept telling her she wasn't going to die and in

Gene Wilder18:39

Yeah.

Gene Wilder18:41

I I was the I I had I had two

Presenter18:42

You are.

Gene Wilder18:45

Great.

Gene Wilder18:48

I had one great virtue and one great fault during that time. The great fault was that I believed up until three weeks before she died that she was going to make it.

Gene Wilder19:02

The great virtue was that I believed up until three weeks before she died that she was going to make it.

Gene Wilder19:08

So every day

Gene Wilder19:10

Every single day when she said

Gene Wilder19:13

What do you think? What do you really think? And I would say, I wish I could trade life spans with you. He said, Really? Do you really mean it? And I really meant it.

Gene Wilder19:21

I was so dumb that they they should have put me out to pasture.

Gene Wilder19:25

But

Gene Wilder19:26

It helped her.

Presenter19:30

Record number five.

Gene Wilder19:32

Um now, tell you something happy. After Gilda had died.

Gene Wilder19:39

I heard this piece by Schubert and

Gene Wilder19:43

I had such turmoil going on in me at the time

Gene Wilder19:48

when she was dying and then after she died. And I heard this and it was so calm.

Gene Wilder19:53

So loving, so tranquil.

Gene Wilder19:56

made me feel peaceful for

Gene Wilder20:00

A few minutes of the day.

Gene Wilder20:03

And

Gene Wilder20:04

After she died.

Gene Wilder20:06

And I thought, well, my life I think is probably

Gene Wilder20:10

basically over as far as romance is concerned.

Gene Wilder20:14

And I met someone at the New York League for the Hard of Hearing, someone who was working there as a speech therapist, and I was doing research on a film.

Gene Wilder20:25

and I helped her. Her name was Miss Webb now her name is Karen Wilder. But uh I started to associate that music with her face.

Presenter21:38

The Beaux Art Trio playing part of Schubert's piano trio in B flat opus ninety nine D eight nine eight.

Presenter21:44

So in the end, Gene, you fulfilled, as you say, your unspoken promise to Gilda and and you went back to work. Although you you you did a a film with Richard Pryor, I think, didn't you, in uh in ninety one? Uh uh as a sort of follow-up to Silver Streak and Stir Crazy, it was called Another You. Apparently you had this very special relationship with Richard Pryor that you you you had a kind of mysterious rapport, right, from the word go, didn't you?

Gene Wilder21:55

Yeah, I did.

Gene Wilder22:10

From the very first day, first take.

Gene Wilder22:13

Oh, the first film we did, Silverstreak, we started improvising. We we we would know maybe how the scene would start, but not how it was gonna finish. Or we n we knew how it was gonna finish, but not how it was gonna start.

Gene Wilder22:25

It was magic. It was some chemical thing that happened between us.

Presenter22:29

But undoubtedly the the biggest single influence on your career has been Mel Brooks, really, hasn't it? Do do you ever think he's been too much of an influence?

Gene Wilder22:39

Too much from what perspective?

Presenter22:41

Well, I'm thinking about um Frank Rich, the the infamous critic, I think, who

Gene Wilder22:46

I don't read critics.

Gene Wilder22:50

When they can write a movie.

Gene Wilder22:53

When they can direct a movie, when they can act a movie,

Gene Wilder22:57

And they've done it.

Gene Wilder22:59

Then I'll listen to them.

Gene Wilder23:01

If they can say why

Gene Wilder23:03

It was good.

Gene Wilder23:05

Why it was bad, but have at the heart

Gene Wilder23:09

Of their criticism.

Gene Wilder23:10

How can I help this artist to do better? Not how can I make a name for myself and get more money for my column, for my T V show, for my radio show, but how can I help the artist do better work next time by showing him why I think he went astray this time? Then I would read all of them.

Presenter23:31

But I wonder in any case, really, whether nobody likes to have any kind of flop, but I wonder if you mind as much as some. You strike me as being somebody yes, of course you care very much about what you do, but the actual show biz element of it doesn't seem to me to matter so much to you.

Gene Wilder23:48

I hate show business. Yeah, I try to eradicate it like a cancer from my life.

Presenter23:48

Yeah.

Presenter23:53

Why?

Gene Wilder23:54

Because it has nothing to do with art.

Gene Wilder23:58

It's the selling of the art. It's necessary. I understand that.

Gene Wilder24:02

But it has nothing to do with the artistic process.

Presenter24:06

Record number six.

Gene Wilder24:09

This is perhaps the

Gene Wilder24:12

The Saddest Song

Gene Wilder24:15

And most compassionate.

Gene Wilder24:17

Song that I've ever heard. It's like.

Gene Wilder24:23

A dagger made of tears that sticks in my heart.

Presenter24:26

Don't explain

Gene Wilder24:32

Uh

Presenter24:33

There is nothing to gain

Speaker 124:42

Skip that lips

Gene Wilder24:45

Still

Gene Wilder24:50

Don't explain

Presenter24:56

Nina Simone and don't explain. It's it's incredibly romantic, incredibly sad.

Presenter25:03

You in fact did something incredibly romantic from a from a public platform not very long ago. Some might say in the best traditions of American showbiz, it has to be said. You made a a a very special award to your wife Karen.

Gene Wilder25:17

Um

Gene Wilder25:19

Karen Wilder.

Gene Wilder25:22

Had been through four and a half years of listening to Gilda.

Gene Wilder25:27

Cancer.

Gene Wilder25:29

Cancer and Gilda.

Gene Wilder25:32

And never once.

Gene Wilder25:34

Said one word about

Gene Wilder25:36

I think that's enough, darling.

Gene Wilder25:39

I think I can't take it any more.

Gene Wilder25:42

So at one huge benefit that we had, not that long ago.

Gene Wilder25:49

I said and now I would like to give

Gene Wilder25:53

The Gene Wilder Unconditional Love for the Rest of My Life Award.

Gene Wilder25:59

To Karen Wilder

Gene Wilder26:02

And

Gene Wilder26:04

There was applause like you couldn't believe, because everyone had been feeling this, who knew her.

Gene Wilder26:13

and couldn't say it, because they were afraid of saying the wrong thing, but I was saying it for them.

Gene Wilder26:19

And she got up, with the tears flowing out of her eyes, and

Gene Wilder26:25

I gave her a kiss that was the award. But unconditional love I've never given to any woman.

Gene Wilder26:31

But I gave it to her.

Presenter26:33

And um the love of a good woman in Gene Wilder's terms then is is worth more than anything, isn't it? Worth more than all that public acclaim and

Gene Wilder26:44

Oh yeah, because the reason that you go into acting in the first place.

Gene Wilder26:50

is to get love that you think

Gene Wilder26:55

Is missing in your life, even if you're too young to understand why. But you keep craving it, and when you hear that first applause, you think this is it.

Gene Wilder27:04

And then thirty or forty years later you realize that isn't it.

Gene Wilder27:08

It's not the same as being loved.

Gene Wilder27:10

Truly loved by someone.

Speaker 127:15

Seven trick on.

Gene Wilder27:18

I said I paint and a piece that I love to play when I paint.

Gene Wilder27:23

is Chopin's concerto number one in E minor.

Presenter28:28

Arto Rubinstein playing part of Chopin's piano concerto No. One in E minor, with the new Symphony Orchestra of London, conducted by Stanislav Skrovchewski.

Presenter28:38

Oh, what next then do you like the way I said a scroll cheese?

Gene Wilder28:41

I couldn't have said it.

Presenter28:43

What next? You're sixty one. You're back in harness, working hard. What what do you want to tackle? More projects or?

Gene Wilder28:51

Well?

Gene Wilder28:52

Um what I learned from Gilda's death.

Gene Wilder28:56

Is

Gene Wilder28:58

How to be happy

Gene Wilder29:00

And also that I may not be alive next week.

Gene Wilder29:03

So I don't plan too far ahead?

Gene Wilder29:07

Um

Gene Wilder29:09

I think

Gene Wilder29:10

I think Tolstoy said

Gene Wilder29:13

that happiness was the most difficult thing to achieve in life and

Gene Wilder29:19

Since I feel blessed.

Gene Wilder29:22

to feel happy, um I don't worry now about what will I do next as far as my career is concerned, because when the right thing happens,

Gene Wilder29:33

It'll come along. I don't have to worry about it.

Presenter29:35

Unless it's an offer from NBC to do a sitcom.

Gene Wilder29:37

You can be sure that I won't accept that.

Presenter29:39

What about a desert island? I mean, are you going to be able to look after yourself there? Are you going to be able to snare a rabbit?

Gene Wilder29:45

What do I write to my wife, or what do I do there?

Presenter29:48

If you've got paper and pencil, but it may not be there, you see. You've got to look after yourself. You are all on your own, mister Wilder.

Gene Wilder29:55

Yeah.

Presenter29:56

And what, apart from your wife, would you miss most? Would you miss the telephone or ice cream or or melt?

Presenter30:05

What would you miss?

Gene Wilder30:06

Oh, the Checco pasta, maybe.

Presenter30:08

The what?

Gene Wilder30:09

Dicheco is a brand of pasta.

Presenter30:12

Tell me about your last record.

Gene Wilder30:14

Um

Gene Wilder30:16

We went to see the Gershwin musical called Crazy for You.

Gene Wilder30:21

After this one particular number, I had a hard time staying in my seat, it gives me a goose and I want to jump up and do things.

Speaker 230:31

Uh

Presenter30:58

I can't be bothered now from Gershwin's musical Crazy for You. You were out of breath already with Harry Gurner and Bobby Ch uh that was Harry Grerner, I'm trying to say, as Bobby Child. Now if you could only take one of those eight records, Jean.

Speaker 131:03

Yeah.

Gene Wilder31:13

Well

Gene Wilder31:14

If I could only take one, I tell you I don't want to make you sad, but.

Presenter31:16

Mm-hmm.

Gene Wilder31:19

I would probably take Nina Simone.

Presenter31:20

I thought you were gonna say that. Nina Simone and don't explain.

Presenter31:25

And you can take an extra book. We give you the Bible, and we give you the complete works of Shakespeare.

Presenter31:32

So you can have one other book of your own choosing.

Gene Wilder31:32

Yeah.

Gene Wilder31:37

It's a novel that I don't know if you've ever heard of. It was written by Jean Renoir, the film director. The only novel he wrote.

Gene Wilder31:44

Called The Notebooks of Captain George.

Gene Wilder31:48

It's so simple and romantic.

Gene Wilder31:52

And uh

Gene Wilder31:54

Such a beautiful story.

Gene Wilder31:56

Either that or the complete works of Sigmund Freud.

Gene Wilder32:00

Uh

Presenter32:00

One of the

Gene Wilder32:00

One or the other. They're both very romantic.

Presenter32:01

They're they both

Presenter32:03

And a luxury.

Gene Wilder32:05

A luxury.

Presenter32:05

Uh-huh.

Gene Wilder32:07

A huge can of Twining's Earl Grey tea.

Presenter32:14

You shall have it. Jean Wilder, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island diss.

Speaker 132:26

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co. uk slash radio four.