Bruce Forsyth

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety six, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My castaway this week is an entertainer. He's been in front of an audience of one kind or another all of his life. He turned professional at the age of 14 with a one-man routine at the Theatre Royal Bilston. For the next fifteen years, he slogged it out as a stand-up comedian and song and dance man until in 1958 he was chosen as the host of ITV's Sunday Night at the London Palladium. A very British star was born. One who lived on to host the original Generation game on BBC, performed at packed houses in the West End, and today, at the age of 68, is still on stage, as it were, in ITV's Play Your Cards Right and The Price is Right. I couldn't be the person people see on the television, he says. He'd drive me absolutely insane. He is Bruce Forsyth.

Bruce Forsyth1:14

Is he a monster? Oh, he would. He would. I couldn't be like that all the time. I'm not that.

Presenter1:20

That what?

Bruce Forsyth1:20

I don't know what to call it really.

Presenter1:22

At least frenetic.

Bruce Forsyth1:23

But he's always there whenever I'm in charge. He's in charge. And whenever just before I go on stage or when I'm going to do a television show, I'm standing on the side there, quite relaxed, probably got a glazed look about my eyes at the time. But then he always turns up and he pushes me on. And then I become this other Brucie.

Presenter1:44

So he he's he I mean, he's Brucey as opposed to Bruce, is he?

Bruce Forsyth1:47

Oh yeah, Brucey. Yeah, oh yeah,'cause he's cheeky, yeah.

Presenter1:48

Yeah, but

Presenter1:49

And and and he's always there, is he? I mean, do you ever worry that he's not going to be there when you press that button?

Bruce Forsyth1:53

Well if it doesn't turn up, I'm in terrible trouble. I always do a little step before I walk on. I never noticed that. Then people remarked on it some years ago. I sort of do a a little hop before I walk on so that I get my walk going just before I actually appear.

Presenter2:07

Just before

Presenter2:09

So the walk as well isn't the same.

Bruce Forsyth2:10

The walk is all apart. It's his walk. It's his walk. Mind you, I've got a funny walk normally, so uh it's just an exaggeration of my normal walk.

Presenter2:18

But he isn't, is he, um, this performing Brucey? He isn't the man that you

Bruce Forsyth2:22

Yeah.

Presenter2:24

intended the performer you intended he should be when you first went on stage fifty five years ago. I mean, you really intended to be Fred Astaire, didn't you?

Bruce Forsyth2:30

Oh yes, I was going to oh yes, I didn't know you were going to go f that far back. Oh it's a long way. What makes you think I want to go back that far? I mean just mentioning my age was enough. But I wanted to be just the song of dance man. Frederisthere influenced me. So dance was the most influential. Dance was the most influence. Just dancing and I used to dance on our lino at home.

Presenter2:34

Oh, it's a long way.

Presenter2:46

So dance was the most important.

Presenter2:52

But you sang in public at a very early age, I think, didn't you?

Bruce Forsyth2:55

Yes, what you used to do in those days in competitions, you go on and sing a song, like I'd say, think sing things like Franklin de Roosevelt Jones, because it was during the war, you know, it's a big holiday everywhere, and you sing this awful song, and then you'd after doing the the first chorus singing, then you go into your tap dance, and maybe at the end, if you had enough breath left, you'd finish up singing again.

Presenter3:22

But I'm still going back even earlier than that because I believe age three you stood up in the stalls, didn't you, and sang a song?

Bruce Forsyth3:23

Oh my gosh.

Bruce Forsyth3:29

Oh, ye well, that was when I was taken to a pantomime at the I think it was the Streatham Hill Theatre and um the comedian was doing the song sheet at the end of the pantomime and he asked the quench uh question, you know, will you all sing with me? and I shouted out the man, Yes, I'll sing with you and then everybody turned round and who's that?

Bruce Forsyth3:48

Child with the big mouth and of course, you know, it stayed with me.

Presenter3:51

And what did you sing?

Bruce Forsyth3:53

I'm not quite sure that was one of these silly one of these silly pantomime songs of the day. You know, I I can't go that I can't remember that far. Oh, but you can.

Presenter4:01

Oh, but you can, you can.

Bruce Forsyth4:02

I've never been this far back for years.

Presenter4:04

It is.

Bruce Forsyth4:05

Bring me one of my pills.

Presenter4:07

And while that happens, we'll have a first record. Tell me the first record you're gonna take to this desert.

Bruce Forsyth4:11

Um well, it's a it's a gentleman. When when people ask me, they say, Who's your favorite pianist or one of your favorite pianists? I always say Bill Evans, and people go, Bill who? You know, does he play in the pub down the road? No, Bill Evans. I was walking around Soho.

Bruce Forsyth4:27

And I heard this beautiful piano being played.

Bruce Forsyth4:30

I walked down into this basement and there was this man playing the piano.

Bruce Forsyth4:34

It was something I'll never forget because from that day on he influenced me. I try now and again to play a little bit like him, but he has the most wonderful chords. And anybody who loves chords, this is going to be a treat for you.

Presenter5:42

That was Bill Evans playing Emily with Eddie Gomez on bass and Marty Morrell on drums. So you were a precocious performer, Bruce. You even ran a dance studio as a little boy.

Bruce Forsyth5:52

Oh yes, once I'd had a couple of years of tap dancing experience, I thought I could make money out of this. So my father had these garages, these lock-up garages, about ten of them, and he was always very ambitious for me. He'd never let me go into the garage and get dirty my hands or not, because he was an engineer and he never wanted me to go into that business. You know, you keep your hands clean and play the piano or do dance or whatever you want to do. So anyway, I asked him if I could have one of his garages for my dancing studio and I used to give these little girls lessons a shilling a time.

Presenter6:28

And you practised on the garage ruse?

Bruce Forsyth6:30

Oh, on the garage roof I would do that. During the war

Bruce Forsyth6:33

With all the all the fighter planes and the German bombers going over there, I'd go up on the roof uh to look for bits of shrapnel from the bombs that had been dropped, and then I'd love to get up on that corrugated iron roof and tap dance,'cause it made more noise.

Presenter6:46

Speed it back.

Presenter6:47

Yeah. And you put an ad in the stage saying I I gather Bruce Forsyth available for anything, which is a bit dangerous.

Bruce Forsyth6:56

Did you get any

Presenter6:56

Did you get any replies?

Bruce Forsyth6:58

Yes, it was amazing. See, in those days, it was a different business. You could put an ad in the stage, the theatre newspaper, and you could get a reply to it and you could get jobs from it. I mean, and of course, in the war, there again, because so many young men were called up in the army, middle-aged men were called up in the army, you see, you were either too old for the service or me, for instance. You see, from the age of 14 to when I went into the service, which was 18, you had four years there, and there was a shortage, there was a great shortage of male performers. So it was very easy to get jobs because there were jobs going and all the theatres were open. I mean, every major city in Britain had about four or five variety theatres. So there was a lot of work. There was no entertaining. Exactly, there was no television. So that was their way of being entertained.

Speaker 27:47

So there was a lot of work.

Bruce Forsyth7:54

Tell me about your second record. Oh, second record. Wait a minute. Yes, now Howard Keel. Howard.

Bruce Forsyth8:01

I adore him as a person. He's a man's man, but then the way women look at him, you know, he's the kind of guy you think, well.

Bruce Forsyth8:09

I'd sum it up, I think, like this, that if if my wife was to come to me one day and say, you know, I'm leaving you for Howard Keel, I'd understand.

Bruce Forsyth8:18

I'd put a hitman on him straight away, but he is the nicest person and of all the American performers I think he's probably the most genuine.

Bruce Forsyth8:32

Uh

Speaker 28:32

Or hold the door, I won't remember.

Speaker 28:39

Which dress you wore?

Speaker 28:43

My heart is too much in control.

Speaker 28:47

The lack of romance in my soul

Speaker 28:50

Well can you break it?

Speaker 28:54

So stay away.

Presenter8:58

Howard Keel singing I Won't Send Roses from the musical Mac and Mabel. So let's get you on the stage, Bruce, on th the Theatre Royal Bilston in the Midlands. Sounds very grand. You were fourteen years old.

Bruce Forsyth9:06

Okay.

Bruce Forsyth9:09

That's right. I think it was my first professional job.

Presenter9:12

And what did you what did you look like?

Bruce Forsyth9:14

Well, I did a, I don't know what I looked like, but I did an act. I was supposed to be a page boy and I'd bring on a ukulele banjo, an accordion, and I'd actually bring on a small tap mat, you see. And I'd look inside all these things and play a number on the ukulele, but it was the most dreadful act. I was called Boy Bruce the Mighty Atom.

Presenter9:35

The mighty atoms.

Bruce Forsyth9:35

I shouldn't have told you that.

Presenter9:37

How much did you get paid?

Bruce Forsyth9:38

Well at the end of that week it was such a bad week at this dreadful theatre and at the end of the week the business had been so bad they decided to share it out. You see like the top of the bill would get so much and then as your billing went down you'd get less and of course I was right at the bottom of the bill, boy Bruce, the mighty Adam, and I got 13 shillings and fourpence and I had to phone home to my parents to send me money for my digs and money for my fare home. So that was the end of the most awful week.

Presenter10:12

But it didn't put you off.

Bruce Forsyth10:13

It didn't put me off.

Presenter10:14

And indeed, you went on for the next 15 years, I think, slogging it out, as I said, in this concert hall, the variety around the country.

Bruce Forsyth10:17

That's processed.

Presenter10:21

At what point did you develop a kind of interchange with the audience? When did you start talking picking things up ad libbing?

Bruce Forsyth10:28

Well, I always had a bit of an interchange with the audience. I mean, when I was doing these amateur shows before, I turned pro, and I'd often, you know, if the pianist couldn't play my music at the right tempo, I'd stop and walk over to her and explain to the audience and say, you know, it's a bit quicker, dear. You know, you'd have a joke at her expense. I'd break out and talk to the audience. It's always been a thing I've.

Presenter10:46

So you'd have a joke at her expense to say that.

Bruce Forsyth10:53

I I've done

Presenter10:54

Nevertheless, you were only ever the warm up man in all those years.

Bruce Forsyth10:57

Yeah.

Presenter10:58

That and they even threw fish and chips at you.

Bruce Forsyth11:00

The worst job on variety was to be the second spot comic. You always follow the dancing act or the juggler, okay? And your job, don't laugh, so it was terrible. I mean, I had five years of that. In fact, I gave myself five years. I thought, at the end of this, if I don't do any good in five years, I don't want to finish up being a frustrated performer. I'll get out of the business. And it was, you know, it was near the five years was nearly up when I got the job at the Palladium. So I was pleased about that. But the fish and chips I got at the Woodgreen Empire, as you mentioned it, I want people to know that I was fish and chips thrown at me for goodness sake. Anyway, it was the Saturday night. And what upset me was that the fact that the Wood Green Empire was the nearest variety theatre to where I lived in Edmonton, because lots of friends and my mother and father came every night to see me and all that stuff. And on the Saturday night, this whoever it was threw the fish and chips. But I did a pretty good ad-lib. I went over to it, sort of opened it out, took a chip and put it in my mouth and said, oh, no salt and vinegar.

Speaker 211:24

Yeah.

Speaker 211:34

I see what people know about.

Bruce Forsyth12:05

So you got your own back. I got my own back at the guy. Then he got me a good round of applause.

Presenter12:05

So you got your own.

Presenter12:10

Record number three.

Bruce Forsyth12:11

Ah, Nat Kinkole. Well, Nat Kinkole probably was the most influence on me learning piano because before that I played the accordion, the ukulele banjo, but he influenced me so much and I had the great thrill of working with him at the palladium. He happened to come over and they phoned me in the morning and said, Nat's arrived early, Bruce, earlier than we thought, and we thought it'd be nice if you could do a double bit with him. So we worked out a routine in 10 minutes and then for the rest of the lunch hour, because he knew that I loved his music, he just sat at the piano with nobody else in the palladium at all and just sat and played just for me alone. It was the most moving thing and it was something I'll never forget.

Speaker 213:02

It is only a pay for moon.

Speaker 213:05

Hanging over a cardboard seat.

Speaker 213:08

But it wouldn't be make-believe if you believe in me.

Speaker 213:15

It is only a canvas sky Sailing over a muslin tree

Speaker 213:21

Why they wouldn't be make-believe if you believe in me

Presenter13:29

It's Only a Paper Moon by the Natking Cole Trio. You must have been, Bruce Forsythe, about thirty when the big Bruce's big break came, the call to do Sunday night at the London Palladium. You were a very long shot for them, really. I mean an inspired one, as it turned out, but you were not at all known.

Bruce Forsyth13:37

And the cool thing to do.

Bruce Forsyth13:40

Okay.

Bruce Forsyth13:45

Yes, well luckily Billy Marsh, who was so responsible for that, because Billy happened to come and see.

Bruce Forsyth13:53

The show I did, but then he also saw the Sunday show where I did all audience participation. But the rest of the show in the week was all sketches. So when they were looking for somebody new to do the Palladium, Billy sort of said, well, give this boy a chance. I've been to see him and sign, sign, sign, sign, and so. So I was booked really for a month.

Presenter14:15

But an amazing contrast for you. I mean from Babacom Concert Park.

Bruce Forsyth14:18

Oh.

Bruce Forsyth14:20

Exactly. I mean, I was I was at Eastbourne at the time. I mean, that's a the the Hippodrome Eastbourne, but it's a terrible old theater. And I'd be working sometimes even on a Saturday, first houses to about thirty or forty, fifty people. And I w and two pianos and drums. And then I went from there On the Sunday morning drove to London and there I am in the Palladium, 2,500 seater and a 30-piece orchestra and all the atmosphere that goes with it. I mean the cond I was. I drove round the block three times before I had the courage to go into the stage door.

Presenter14:48

Were you terrified?

Presenter14:55

And and you had, obviously, as we know, a great many stars on that show. But of course the the the the did you realize at the time that it was the beat the clock, it was the audience participation game show that really got us all hooked?

Bruce Forsyth15:06

Exactly. And I don't think they I don't think the people who ran the show really knew that until they took it off uh f about five, six years later. They took the show off or they changed the show and took beat the clock out of it. And after that the show was finished.

Presenter15:21

But it was really the first of the people shows, as they now call them, wasn't it? Audience involvement on the stage.

Bruce Forsyth15:25

Yeah, yeah.

Bruce Forsyth15:28

Yes, I think the only thing that was on j near about that time was Huey Green and W Money. Maybe that was another thing. It was a round about that.

Presenter15:33

Maybe.

Presenter15:35

Or Michael Mars, take your pick.

Bruce Forsyth15:37

But yes, probably Michael Miles take your pick. That was probably on at the same time.

Presenter15:38

Thank you.

Presenter15:40

But but then they were sort of uh answering questions there, weren't they, Stricky? These were people actually participating in the things. You were getting them to do games and encouraging I can hear you now saying but that you know, the big clock would stop at sixty seconds and you say, Stop, stop, stop, you got it and they kept going on

Bruce Forsyth15:44

PS Act.

Bruce Forsyth15:46

Exactly.

Bruce Forsyth15:48

Yeah.

Bruce Forsyth15:49

I can hear you now.

Bruce Forsyth15:52

Sixty seconds when you say stop, stop, stop, you've got to

Bruce Forsyth15:55

It was all silly games. It was some wonderful games actually.

Presenter15:58

But that's when you started saying I'm in charge. I suppose you had to you had to be bossy, really.

Bruce Forsyth16:00

Oh, that's

Bruce Forsyth16:02

Yeah, I did have to be bothered. And I'd said it, I mean, just because that this woman had had carried on s well, she started to do the game before I'd started the clock. You see, and I said, Hold on, dear, just a minute, you know, that's what I'm here for, I'm in charge.

Presenter16:18

Record number four.

Bruce Forsyth16:19

Oh, well, this is about the palladium. Actually, Errol Garner, another pianist, sorry about this, but I do love the piano. Erol Garner worked the palladium, and I went out to introduce him. And as I went out to introduce him, I looked to the side, because I always looked to Jack Matthews on the side to see if everything was okay. And he was giving me the sign to stretch, going like this with his arms about stretched. And I went, oh, oh, fine. So I mumbled and on, and I don't know what I spoke about. Anyway, then all of a sudden he said, right, okay, you can go. He said, oh, fine. Ladies and gentlemen, here he is, my favourite pianist, and I know he's yours, Mr. Errol Garner. Walked off.

Bruce Forsyth17:01

I said, what the devil's going on, Jack? What's happening? He said, look at the first piano leg.

Bruce Forsyth17:09

And there was a beer box.

Bruce Forsyth17:11

There, with some black velvet wrapped round it.

Bruce Forsyth17:15

This is what he said. As we were wheeling the piano on, the leg snapped off. We had to then lift it up, get it to the middle, get the beer box and get some black velvet, because it is the palladium. It couldn't be just a beer box, could it? So the zero gun away, the way you go, playing away there on a beer box.

Presenter18:34

Errol Garner and The Way You Look Tonight, with Leonard Gaskin on bass and Charlie Smith on drums. Now, your y this catchphrase, Bruce, I'm in charge, wasn't entirely random, was it? Because

Bruce Forsyth18:42

Was it in

Presenter18:44

I suspect you're a kind of person who professionally wants to be, needs to be in charge. Don't you like it done like you like it done?

Bruce Forsyth18:52

Oh, yes, I do. Yes, I'm very um

Bruce Forsyth18:55

I don't I don't suffer fools. I do like that if if I know somebody isn't trying or looks as though they couldn't care less about their their work, if I'm doing a show, then I will lose my temper.

Presenter19:08

But you have to

Bruce Forsyth19:09

But anybody make mistakes? I make mistakes, you know, fluff a line and I've built a whole career on fluffing lines. That's why people go, and I say to people, I don't talk like that. But everybody goes, they do, you see.

Presenter19:22

They don't think you do.

Presenter19:25

But you can tell you're scrupulous, as I say. When you're when you were always marking those games in the generation game, you always wanted to be very fair. It mattered to you, didn't it? Not to misuse people, as it were.

Bruce Forsyth19:36

Very, very important. The marking and you know at times one could get it wrong and it used to upset me if the markings were wrong because you know this is one day in their lives these people. It's so important to these people. This is why I love everybody to win. I mean I know everybody can't win but I'm thrilled by that. It does because you see these people and although they say at the end of it oh it doesn't matter we've just enjoyed being here for the day.

Presenter19:56

So you have maxes too, does it?

Bruce Forsyth20:05

It still matters to them. And I'm very disappointed. Especially in the prices right now. I mean, they get a chance to win prizes up to about £25,000 at the end of the show. But when they win a car maybe in the first five minutes, this means an awful lot to them. That can influence the rest of their lives.

Presenter20:06

Oh they're very disappointed.

Presenter20:24

But you had just as much fun and the programmes were just as successful when you were really not giving much away. I mean, do you think it's all pandered too much to the materialistic approach now?

Bruce Forsyth20:33

I agree with you, just pl playing for the fun of it is wonderful. And in the 70s, that's how it was. And I think in the 70s, it suited the 70s. But I think we're living in a much more materialistic world now. And I think people do expect to win more. And we expect to give them more as well.

Presenter20:55

Tell me about your fifth record.

Bruce Forsyth20:56

Sammy Davis, yes, Sammy Davis Jr., who to me was the greatest all-round entertainer I've ever seen. I remember once when he worked in Olympia in Paris and I went to see him and because he was worried about the audience not being able to speak English or understand English rather, he cut his act really down to the bone. Look out. One, two.

Bruce Forsyth21:20

He still talked, but he didn't go on too long in between. It was the greatest performance I think he ever gave. Yeah.

Bruce Forsyth21:29

They

Bruce Forsyth21:30

Her

Bruce Forsyth21:32

Uh

Speaker 221:32

The

Bruce Forsyth21:33

Hurry.

Speaker 221:35

They're the tree.

Speaker 221:38

Sing with melody.

Speaker 221:42

And they've made that.

Speaker 221:47

Just the start of the belief.

Presenter21:50

Sammy Davis Junior and Birth of the Blues. So Bruce, about ten years after Sunday Night at the London Pladium had finished, the Generation game was born. I think it was it was Bill Cotton, head of then Light Entertainment at the BBC found

Bruce Forsyth22:02

Yes, Bill was the man. I went there with Billy Marsh, who I mentioned earlier on, to see him about doing a talk show, because that's what I wanted to do, you know. But Bill had his own idea. And then he said, I want you to see this tape. And he put this tape on of this lady called Mies Bauman, who originated the show in Holland. That's where it came from. And I watched this tape for an hour, you see.

Bruce Forsyth22:29

And he said, well, it's yours if you want to do it. He said, well, so I said, fine. I said, I'd love to do it. I said, I think it's got great possibilities. And then from then on, you know, I was the instigator of doing the plays. And I was also the instigator of doing dance routines where you brought the people in, because it wasn't like that in Holland.

Presenter22:49

But it was absolutely right for you as a concept because it played to all your strengths that we've talked about, that you've been developing over all of those years.

Bruce Forsyth22:50

Yeah, it played to all your strengths that we've

Bruce Forsyth22:53

Developing over all of those. Exactly. It was just right for me.

Presenter22:56

And and how would you define the trick with those people? Because it seems to me that that

Presenter23:01

The trick is to to leave their dignity intact, have a joke at their expense, but you know, not be rude.

Bruce Forsyth23:08

Well, I've always been lucky to be able to semi-insult people and get away with it. Alfred Marks said to me once, he said, if I was to say what you say to people at times, he said they'd lock me up. Or he said, oh, I get a punch in the eye. He said, you do get away with it. I said, yeah, well, I don't know. But they take it from me. And I think they realise in the end, especially with doing the interviews that I used to do, that it was just to relax them.

Presenter23:34

But you obviously got on their side, as you say. In the end, they were putty in your hands. You could be very rude to them. Was part of uh the art of doing that to be your own warm-up man?

Presenter23:44

It must be enormously exhausting because you'd go out there and presumably it could take three hours or more to record a whole gen game.

Bruce Forsyth23:49

Three hours or more to record a whole gen game. And I would be out there the practically the whole time.

Presenter23:52

Yeah.

Presenter23:57

Hmm.

Bruce Forsyth23:57

Even when we had set changes and everything.

Presenter23:59

So you still keep talking, still keep talking.

Bruce Forsyth24:01

Keep talking, keep them going. You can have a little break maybe now and again, because I mean, sometimes an audience enjoys having just a couple of minutes to simmer down, you know.

Presenter24:12

But again, it's part of Bruti being in charge. Yes, isn't it? You know, if you're going to do it, you're going to do the whole thing.

Bruce Forsyth24:14

Yes, exactly.

Bruce Forsyth24:16

Do the whole thing.

Presenter24:18

And do it as well as you know how.

Presenter24:22

Record number six.

Bruce Forsyth24:23

Right. Now here's another pianist. This must be the fourth one, isn't it? Somewhere there. Anyway, I love the piano and I love all these guys. I wish I'd have met this man. I never have met George Shearing. It's one of the things that I still live in hope. But this is a beautiful track and he's backed with the Robert Farnham Orchestra.

Presenter25:22

George Shearing and the Robert Farnan Orchestra and O Lady Be Good from the musical Lady Be Good. We've talked about your peaks, Bruce. Really? So let's talk about your drops.

Speaker 325:30

Really?

Bruce Forsyth25:31

That interrupts.

Presenter25:35

Informed. In the late seventies on I T V, Bruce's Big Night.

Bruce Forsyth25:40

Well, you can say we bombed. And if you were to look in the press cuttings, and it will always be with me till the day I die, that the big night bombed.

Bruce Forsyth25:52

So why did we finish up with an audience of fourteen million viewers? We did have a bad start because it was a new show. Every show has teething problems.

Presenter26:03

It was really you hosting the whole of Saturday night, wasn't it?

Bruce Forsyth26:06

Well, it went on for an hour and a half. Yeah, it was long, but there were other bits in it. There were 15-minute passages of things.

Presenter26:07

Yeah.

Presenter26:12

I think it was an episode of the Huggetts in the middle of it.

Bruce Forsyth26:15

That's right,

Presenter26:15

Yes. So you had to come up in between a bit of entertainment. But.

Bruce Forsyth26:18

Yeah.

Bruce Forsyth26:20

As a as a as I keep getting back to, that we did have a bad first few weeks and the ratings dropped, but then we got them back and got them back and got and 14 million viewers in 1978, 79 was pretty big.

Presenter26:36

But they took it off.

Bruce Forsyth26:37

But they took it off. They took it off because I refused to do it anymore inasmuch as it was an hour and a half of live television every week and it was too hard a show to do.

Presenter26:50

But there were other disappointments after that. I mean, seventy nine was a bad year for you. Yes. Your marriage to Anthea broke down. Yes. Broke up, ended.

Bruce Forsyth26:53

Yes, you're

Bruce Forsyth26:56

Yeah.

Presenter26:58

And you went off to America, and it didn't quite happen there for you either, did it?

Bruce Forsyth27:02

No, uh mind you, there again, it was it was

Bruce Forsyth27:07

At one time there was a very funny thing, because we had the Evening News and the Evening Standard with the two newspapers at the time. One said I'd absolutely bombed out and the other one said what a great success. The pity is it may be looser now, but you see if you're an actor, you make a film, you can go to America and be successful. If you make a record or you're a successful group or a successful singer, you can go to America and they'll buy it. But there's no way at the moment, unless it does get easier, for a light entertainment performer to just go there. It just doesn't happen.

Presenter27:45

So you didn't make it big in America. You didn't become Britain's answer to Sammy Davis Junior or Fred Astaire. You became king of the game shows. You are king of the game shows.

Bruce Forsyth27:56

Yes, although I still do my one man show, which there again is a is a is which I'm doing a few uh in the next couple of months.

Presenter28:03

But is it a disappointment to you? I mean, you you're brilliant at what you do, but you haven't succeeded in those other things that you

Bruce Forsyth28:05

You're brilliant.

Bruce Forsyth28:09

I would have, yes, I would have much preferred at this stage to have more shows that were light entertainment shows. I do have some lovely specials that I've done over the years, which have always mean a lot to me. But I didn't do a whole batch of series after series in the same way that Morcombe and Wise did and Benny Hill did and all those kind of things, because the game shows, you know, as Bill Cotton's everybody said, you're too good at game shows. That's your trouble.

Speaker 228:31

A variety of shoes.

Presenter28:41

So when the the relaxed, quiet Bruce sits at home contemplating the career of Brucie, does he sort of think, well, he's done well, but

Bruce Forsyth28:48

Yeah.

Presenter28:52

Actually he's failed.

Bruce Forsyth28:54

Oh, I'll always have a feeling that the the other side of of what I can do and and I and I I used to do it and I still could probably do it quite well now, I suppose. Uh but I I I do feel that it's a shame that that was neglected and I I'll always have that regret.

Bruce Forsyth29:10

But donuts burst into tears about it, you know.

Presenter29:13

Little tear trickling down.

Bruce Forsyth29:16

Number seven, yes, well um

Bruce Forsyth29:19

Well, as we've got a tear trickling down our cheeks, I never knew you were so sensitive. Good job we're putting this record on. It's by a lovely lady called Dionne Warwick. And when my wife and I, well, Nelia, were sort of, I was going over to New York to see her, and she was coming over here, working in Paris, and maybe to see her. And it was all very romantic, the phone calls, and the going here and coming there and all that sort of thing. She was the lady. It was sort of like Our Lady of Song, and Our Lady of Love was Dion Warwick.

Speaker 229:53

I've kept the memories, one by one, since you took me.

Speaker 230:00

I know I'll never love

Speaker 230:03

This way again

Speaker 230:09

I'll never love this way again, so I'll keep all the long.

Speaker 230:18

Before the good is gone.

Presenter30:22

I'll Never Love This Way Again, sung by Dion Warwick. Memories there of courting your wife, Will Nahlia, a former Miss World, who is unfailingly reported as being thirty years younger than you. But it's true, isn't it?

Bruce Forsyth30:35

It is.

Presenter30:35

She's younger than one of your daughters.

Bruce Forsyth30:37

Uh-huh.

Presenter30:38

She was Miss Puerto Rico, is that right?

Bruce Forsyth30:40

Yes. This is the Inquisition.

Presenter30:41

As this

Presenter30:42

It is. And you proposed on bended knee. Is that right?

Bruce Forsyth30:46

That's right.

Presenter30:47

And she is Mrs. Forsyth in Wentworth, but in Puerto Rico, you're Mr. World, is that right?

Bruce Forsyth30:48

Is Mrs. Forsay in

Bruce Forsyth30:50

Mm-hmm.

Bruce Forsyth30:53

Well, yes. You see, with her being an ex-Miss World, the lovely thing about me going there, you know, 14 years ago was the first time I went there. And the lovely thing is I'm Mr. Nobody. I mean, I'm absolutely Mr. Nobody. So when we got married, you know, that I wasn't Bruce Forsyth, the British entertainer and millionaire, whatever they like to say about me. I was Senor Mundo, Mr. World.

Presenter31:24

And you've taken a lot of stick over the years for the fact that that two of your wives, Wilnelia and Anthea, have been so much younger than you. Has that been difficult to cope with, or do you not know?

Bruce Forsyth31:33

No, they keep up with me very well.

Presenter31:36

Uh

Bruce Forsyth31:36

They really No, I read somewhere the other day that age is a state of mind and I think it is right. I mean I honestly can say particularly when I sort of go on to an audience and I'm performing in front of an audience that I don't feel any different to how I did when I was 35, 40 years of age.

Presenter31:58

You're still as fit as ever.

Bruce Forsyth32:00

I feel pretty good, yes.

Presenter32:02

And you're still as ambitious as ever?

Bruce Forsyth32:04

I wouldn't say I know I'm certainly not as ambitious as money.

Presenter32:07

Got enough money, ready to retire?

Bruce Forsyth32:09

Uh I I could do, but I still like to work and as long as I like to work and as long as I don't go on I'd hate to be over the hill and not know it. If I don't know when to pack it in, I hope those who love me, who are near to me, have the courage to say to me it's about time to hang up your tap shoes.

Presenter32:28

Will they dare, do you think?

Bruce Forsyth32:30

Oh, I think they would. I think they would, yes.

Presenter32:32

Last record.

Bruce Forsyth32:33

Uh here's a man who

Bruce Forsyth32:36

There again I grew up with the arrangement, the Nelson Riddle arrangements will will never be bettered. One of the greatest singers of all time for me personally is Frank Sinatra.

Bruce Forsyth32:49

I've got you.

Speaker 232:52

Under my skin.

Speaker 232:56

I've got you!

Speaker 232:59

Deep in the heart of

Speaker 233:02

So deep in my heart that you're really a part of me.

Speaker 233:10

I've got you.

Speaker 233:13

Under my skin.

Presenter33:16

Frank Sinatra with the Nelson Riddle Orchestra singing Coal Porter's I've Got You under My Skin. If you could only take one of those records, Bruce, which one would it be?

Bruce Forsyth33:25

Uh well it big eleven's health cute uh paper mint neck and coils.

Presenter33:28

Go ahead and choose one.

Bruce Forsyth33:29

Yeah, yeah. There's not one of mine there.

Presenter33:32

This is true.

Bruce Forsyth33:33

Oh, but I'd sling one of these out then. I'd get rid of one of these.

Presenter33:36

You can't do that at this stage.

Bruce Forsyth33:38

No, I've got to. You've got to put it at my little budgie.

Bruce Forsyth33:41

That was one of my biggest hits.

Bruce Forsyth33:43

Well, I suppose with my darling Willelian, it was the most romantic time of my life. I'll never love this way again. Deion Warwick.

Speaker 333:50

Yeah.

Presenter33:50

Do you know?

Bruce Forsyth33:51

We've got to be that one.

Presenter33:51

It's got to be that one.

Bruce Forsyth33:53

'Cause otherwise you'll get no supper tonight. What's that?

Presenter33:56

The book. You've got the vibration.

Bruce Forsyth33:57

Oh the book, I'm going to surprise you now. I think the works of Oma Khayyam, because I'd love to learn those. Because I was thinking about this and I love all the court dramas by John Grisham. I've read every one of those and I love them. But because once you've got the story, that's it. But Oma Khayyam, I'd love to learn.

Bruce Forsyth34:15

Now I did learn one years ago A waco morning on the bowl of night Has flung the stone that puts the stars to flight, And lo, the hunter of the East has caught The Sultan's turret in a noose of light.

Presenter34:31

And that was Bruce, not Bruce.

Bruce Forsyth34:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was Bruce. Well, that surprised you, didn't it? Get off the floor, Sue, for goodness sake.

Presenter34:36

And you're a luxury.

Bruce Forsyth34:39

Oh, my luxury. Oh, yes, uh my sandiron.

Bruce Forsyth34:42

Because it's the one part of golf that always I'm not good out of bunkers unless I practice. So depending on how long I was I'd have to have at least two or three balls as well to take with me. Is that allowed? That does allow me. And when I left that island, I'd be as good a bunker player as Gary Player. I mean I'd really that would be very important to me.

Speaker 334:57

Yeah.

Presenter34:58

Fine.

Presenter35:06

Bruce Forsyth, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Bruce Forsyth35:09

Thank you, Sue.

Speaker 335:17

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.