Michael White

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety six, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Castaway this week is a producer. He comes from a Scottish Jewish family, and after a cosmopolitan but unhappy childhood when he was educated in Switzerland, Germany, and France, ended up working in the London Theatre.

Presenter0:41

The first show he produced was a complete flop. Undaunted, he tried again, and the string of successes he's since enjoyed testify to the wisdom of that decision Sleuth, O'Calcutta, A Chorus Line, The Rocky Horror Show, to name a tiny few.

Presenter0:56

Famous not just for his theatrical flair, but his lifestyle too beautiful women always accompany him on his frequent trips to London clubs and parties he can't think of one good thing about growing old. Now sixty, he still loves every minute of his job. It's like being on a roller coaster, he says. He is Michael White. A roller coaster with no guarantee of coming up the other side, though, Michael. I mean, you must have made and lost a fortune in your time, if not several.

Michael White1:22

Several.

Michael White1:23

It's an extremely risky business and it becomes more so because the one thing that's happened is that the public now expect productions to have such enormous quality in the scenic, lighting, sound departments. And obviously that's extremely expensive.

Presenter1:41

And there's no such thing as a surefire hit, that's the problem, isn't it? You can put a lot of money into something that goes fut on the first night.

Michael White1:48

Well, yes, there are many famous occasions of shows that have opened with tremendous advance and expectation, and they just don't happen. I mean, I'm thinking, for instance, of a musical I did called Charlie with Michael Crawford when he was at the height of his uh fame.

Michael White2:06

He loved the show, it was a good show, but the public just did not want to come and see it.

Presenter2:10

But what is it? So there's no rhyme or reason to it, I say.

Michael White2:12

Correct. There's absolutely no right.

Presenter2:15

It's not that the critics do for it.

Michael White2:16

No. The critics give an indication. When the critics are extremely bad, there's no way a show can survive unless it's got something very special. But when the critics are mixed, for instance like on a show like Les Misera, the critics were very divided, but the public liked it.

Speaker 42:33

Hmm.

Presenter2:33

Yeah.

Michael White2:34

And that grew and grew and grew and it's be for instance become one of the biggest hits of all time.

Presenter2:39

Not one of yours.

Michael White2:40

Not one of mine, no. Crazy.

Presenter2:41

Crazy for you is has been one of yours. It's just finished. What sort of money are we talking about for a big high stepping musical like that, Gershwin music and so on? What what's the investment?

Michael White2:45

The orders just fit.

Michael White2:52

While the investment was three million, a million pounds went on the scenery.

Michael White2:57

The costumes, I think, were just under six hundred thousand pounds. And then you add everything else, you know, the shoes, the rehearsal time, the props, the lighting, the advertising.

Presenter3:08

Three million pounds upfront.

Michael White3:10

To get to opening night.

Presenter3:12

But how long before a show like that, Crazy For You, starts to, as they say in the business, wash its own face, you know, start bringing in some money, making some money.

Michael White3:19

Well that took

Michael White3:21

Nearly a year and a half to get back the money.

Presenter3:25

To get back the money. And then after that it's profit.

Michael White3:26

The end

Presenter3:28

You've put on about twenty five musicals in your time. How many have been flops?

Michael White3:32

I would have thought serious flops about three or four.

Presenter3:37

And how much of your own money is riding on these these days, with you learned a long time ago not to put your own money in there?

Michael White3:44

No, I have learnt, but I still do it because sometimes out of necessity when you can't raise the money, and sometimes you just do. I mean, I've spent a lot of money, not so much on theatre, but on developing films that for one reason or another don't happen, and then you're left having spent maybe a hundred or two hundred thousand pounds.

Presenter4:04

But that's the gamble, that's the roller coaster, that's what you love.

Michael White4:06

Correct.

Michael White4:08

Well, yes.

Presenter4:09

With reservations, I see. We shall talk about those. Tell me about your first record.

Michael White4:14

Well, it was very difficult to think of a show record.

Michael White4:19

to play since there's so many I've done, so many I like. And then I thought, well, all the shows I've done I can do myself. I can sing to myself on this island. So I think I'll pick one.

Presenter4:20

Yeah.

Speaker 14:21

Man Adelaide

Michael White4:30

Which when I saw it, just this song knocked me out, and the whole production, it was Jerome Robins Westside Story.

Speaker 44:37

Uh

Presenter4:37

Uh

Speaker 44:37

I like to be in America, okay by me in America, everything free in America, for a small beat in America.

Presenter4:48

Yeah.

Speaker 44:50

Uh

Presenter4:50

I like the city of San Juan. I know a boat you can get on.

Speaker 44:56

Hundreds of flowers in full bloom Hundreds of people in each room Automobile in America Chromium T in America Wire for week in America

Presenter5:04

Me I'm feeling I'm bad

Presenter5:07

America from the original cast recording of Westside Story. The problem for theatrical producers, Michael White, is that people always like to hear about their flops, I suppose, rather more than their successes. Here we go, just with one, and I promise we'll talk about some successes later. But presumably your biggest was a show that was never seen thirteen years ago, something called I in lower case. What was it and why did we never see it?

Michael White5:32

You didn't see it because when I saw the dress rehearsal I knew the result. I mean you do often know. You pray that you'll get away with it, but deep down you know when something's good or bad and you know it pretty quickly. And after I'd sat through the rehearsal I just knew what would happen. I knew we'd get

Michael White5:52

trash, demolished and pilloried and

Presenter5:55

But why? What was going wrong?

Michael White5:56

It just it didn't work. It had like many things, it had wonderful elements. Like the leading manner, Artura Brachetti was extraordinary and very gifted.

Presenter6:07

He's a mime artist.

Michael White6:07

He's a mime artist. Yes. And beautiful to watch. But the show didn't hang together.

Presenter6:13

But it was revolutionary in that you'd pulled out all the seats in this theatre.

Michael White6:16

Yes, we were going to make it into a sort of sophisticated version of a dinner theatre. And I think we made two mistakes. First of all, we tried to do dinner when it should have just been like tapper snacks. And secondly, the show was incredibly ambitious, too ambitious for the theatre and too expensive. On the evening we were meant to have a charity preview, first major public viewing and the royalty were coming. And at the end of the show, I said to the director and the actors, We just cannot open with this.

Presenter6:50

But how do you feel in that moment?

Michael White6:50

But how do you feel in that moment? Do you feel, I suppose, the way a general feels when he's just lost a major battle?

Presenter6:56

Hmm.

Michael White6:56

And the troops are advancing on your hometown.

Presenter7:00

But if you look at the range of things you did, from O Calcutta to Joe Orton's entertaining mister Sloan to Barry Humphreys as Dame Edner and then some Ibsen and some GBS thrown in, it's an eclectic bunch.

Speaker 17:09

Forgot.

Presenter7:15

What does it have in common? I mean, is it is it just that it's all your taste, all things you wanted to do in that mood?

Michael White7:21

Well, I don't know. It's partly my taste. I have schizophrenic taste in the sense that I like the mainstream, what I call the Ethel Merman school of show business, which is I thought she was the greatest and that kind of it's show business, etcetera. But I also very much like the avant-garde and the new and the unexpected. And when I brought people over like Merce Cunningham and John Cage and Pina Bausch for the first time to London and lots of American dancers, the Living Theatre and people like that, they were very extreme at the time. More than the shows you sort of mentioned.

Presenter8:01

So you've never done anything cynically. You've never thought, Well, I didn't think much of it, but the punters'll like it.

Michael White8:07

I did once. It was a light, frothy Broadway comedy. It wasn't bad.

Presenter8:12

Called.

Michael White8:12

any Wednesday. It was a little fluffy play and I didn't particularly think it was that good, but I thought it would do very well on Shaftesbury Avenue. Unfortunately I was wrong.

Presenter8:25

But you've got to believe in what you're putting on.

Michael White8:27

Yes, but I would say that's the only show I've done ever wi that I didn't really believe in, but I thought they'll make a few Bob and I need to make a few Bob at the moment and let's do it.

Presenter8:39

Record number two.

Michael White8:41

But this record just reminds me of my childhood in a kind of nice way. It ties in with r remembering a bit the way my mother was. And my mother was

Michael White8:51

when I was a child rather very jolly and warm and liked dance very much, took me to a lot of ballet and liked dancing around and this song just reminds me about those days and her.

Speaker 49:05

Sangeri

Speaker 49:08

She is all they claim.

Speaker 49:11

With her eyes of night and lips as bright as flame

Speaker 49:18

Sangerine

Speaker 49:21

When she dances by

Speaker 49:24

Senorita Stair and Cavalier O'Sar

Presenter9:31

Benny Goodman and his orchestra and tangerine and memories of your mother, Michael White. You you were born in Glasgow.

Michael White9:37

Yes, I was, but I was just born there because in fact my father w was from Dublin and my mother was of Russian descent. My grandparents were Russian.

Presenter9:47

And there's some Irish in there as well somewhere.

Michael White9:47

And the survival

Michael White9:48

Yes, on my father's side. So it's a very it's a very nice mix, and I just was in Russian. It was, I felt.

Michael White9:55

The Russian bit in me coming out.

Presenter9:58

But it was a childhood described in some of the profiles as being miserable. What was miserable about it?

Michael White10:04

Well, it was miserable'cause I had very acute asthma. So that's why I don't like going on about it. It just brings back bad memories. That's the only reason. I was very sickly.

Presenter10:16

But it's also been said in these profiles I've read that that was a psychosomatic illness, you said.

Michael White10:21

It could be.

Presenter10:22

For what reason? Can you explain?

Michael White10:24

I don't know.

Michael White10:26

I don't know. I've never I've never tried to find out and I think it's better not to try and find out why I mean, it's clear that asthma is both physical and psychosomatic. But the the thing is I I suffered from it extremely badly. I was bedridden.

Presenter10:42

Is that why you were sent away to school to to to Europe?

Michael White10:42

They said what

Michael White10:44

Alright.

Michael White10:45

Yes, that's why I went to Switzerland. I went to Switzerland when I was just seven, and it was quite difficult.

Presenter10:51

By yourself.

Michael White10:52

Yes.

Michael White10:53

To a school where none of the other boys spoke English.

Michael White10:57

And so I learnt French pretty quick, had to.

Presenter11:01

But that's why you would describe your childhood as miserable, isn't it? I mean you landed out there not being able to speak any language without your parents, without your family.

Michael White11:04

I mean if you land it out there not

Michael White11:07

Yeah.

Michael White11:10

Correct.

Presenter11:11

It was quite a cruel thing to do to you, wasn't it?

Michael White11:13

Well, it was and it wasn't. It was a choice between being ill and in in Britain or trying to get better in Switzerland.

Presenter11:22

But she must have been terribly lonely.

Michael White11:23

Oh, I was, yes, very. And then just as I learnt French fluently, obviously'cause when you were a child you I was the doctor said, Oh, Michael should go higher up, so I was moved to German speaking Switzerland.

Michael White11:38

and then I had to start all over again learning German and Italian.

Michael White11:43

but particularly German, which is quite difficult. By th by this time I was nearly ten.

Michael White11:50

Um and that was a much tougher school. Uh it was run like an English public school. It's still there. It's a very famous school near St. Maurice. So it had some virtues. Skiing.

Presenter12:01

Hmm.

Michael White12:02

Um, very good food by school standards, but quite miserable as well.

Presenter12:07

And did the family visit?

Michael White12:09

Yes, not yes.

Michael White12:11

But not.

Michael White12:12

Much.

Presenter12:13

And did you come home at all, or was that not sensible of you?

Michael White12:15

There were sometimes I didn't come home and stayed there in the holidays, and sometimes I did. But this is all sounding sadder than it actually is. No, it was it was quite lonely, but it also had its good side. It made me very open minded.

Michael White12:33

By the time I was twelve I spoke all these languages. I had a very open, cultural, different attitude to things than most people.

Presenter12:43

And when did you develop a a a a a love or a liking for, anyway, the theatre? When did you decide that that was what you wanted to do with yourself, with your life?

Michael White12:51

Just by accident I got a summer job helping this woman, this famous producer, who had a summer theatre.

Presenter13:02

But eventually you came to this country, you came to London, and you went to work for the impresario Sir Peter Daubeny. What did you do for him?

Michael White13:09

Peter specialized in doing um international theatre seasons and when I was with him

Michael White13:15

It was an extraordinary time of being involved with the Berlin Reigns, the Moscow Arts Theatre, the Comedie Française. It was all very, very exciting.

Presenter13:24

And so your education obviously stood you in good stead for all of that. You were extremely adept, rushing around Europe, talent spotting these shows.

Michael White13:27

Yes.

Michael White13:33

I once it was a real compliment. I was in the Hotel lobby in Paris talking to the French Minister of Culture. I couldn't have been more than twenty three at the time. I was trying to persuade him why

Michael White13:46

something should happen in French. And at the end of the conversation the phone lady in this hotel who's on these nice French concierge types said, Oh, you really did that well, you really perform well and I admire what you said to him. So I thought, well, all those years came in handy.

Presenter14:06

And then you learned that you didn't want to go on being somebody's right hand man, but that you wanted to be a producer in your own right. But we'll pause in your story for the next piece of music.

Michael White14:17

Which is A Sad Song, Billy Holiday, I Cover the Waterfront.

Speaker 414:22

I've come for the water from you.

Presenter14:29

Watching the sea

Presenter14:33

With the one I love.

Speaker 414:38

Um

Speaker 414:39

Maybe.

Speaker 114:47

I could buy the wall of

Speaker 414:51

Round

Presenter14:52

Billy Holiday and I cover the waterfront.

Speaker 414:52

Uh

Presenter14:54

So you went out on your own, Michael, in the early 60s. You produced a show called The Connection and guess what? It fell flat on its face. What was wrong? What went wrong with it?

Michael White15:04

Well, it's quite simple what went wrong. It's it was a show done by the Living Theatre in New York.

Michael White15:10

in a very naturalistic way, i. e. it was set in a loft. It was about some drug addicts waiting for the connection to come. And by doing it in a West End Edwardian theatre,

Michael White15:25

It had completely the wrong feel to it. There are shows that don't feel right in certain theatres.

Presenter15:31

And you think that conveys itself to the audience and and can

Michael White15:34

Yes, I do.

Presenter15:35

and can lead to the show the the show not working.

Michael White15:38

Yes, there are all kinds of things when you go into a show that's a hit, into the where you get your tickets or meet your friends, there's a buzz in the air.

Michael White15:48

People want to be there. When you go to a show that isn't successful, it's very, very calm. It's kind of.

Michael White15:55

It's all kinds of little things like that that tell you

Michael White15:58

What's right and wrong?

Presenter15:59

Where do you stand? Where where are you on your opening nights?

Michael White16:03

Oh, I like hiding.

Presenter16:06

Where do you hide?

Michael White16:06

Where do you go?

Michael White16:14

I like standing at the back or sometimes if I feel very brave I used to sit in the near the critics, but I don't do that any more. It's too nerve-wracking.

Presenter16:24

And at what point do you know? I mean, obviously the first night there's that buzz in the foyer that you described of anticipation. At what point in the show do you think this is it? Got the hit? When did you?

Michael White16:28

Definitely.

Michael White16:34

You just feel it. You just feel that you've won over the audience. Or that you've lost them. And once you've lost them, it's very hard to get them back. And then unexpected things can happen. I remember going to the first night of a show that wasn't my show. Well, I can tell you which show it was. It was Starlight Express. And it was not going that well. And then the leading man fluffed something and said something, and the audience warmed towards him. And in that split ten seconds, the mood changed. And then it was it all went terrific.

Presenter17:12

So he had the sympathy of the audience. Certainly they wanted him to win.

Michael White17:13

Correct. They wanted him to win. Sometimes there are first nights that are just fantastic from the moment the curtain goes up. Chorus Line was one. And then there are first nights where you just want to crawl away and really hide. You don't want to see any human being. You can't. You don't know what to say or do.

Michael White17:34

You don't want to kill yourself, but you emotionally are d completely dead. It's a combination of having lost a lot of money, done something that doesn't work, disappointed everyone. It's a horrible feeling.

Presenter17:49

Record number four.

Michael White17:52

Oh, this is the platters and only you.

Presenter17:55

Tell me why.

Michael White17:56

It's for all the girls.

Michael White17:58

Only

Speaker 418:00

Um

Speaker 418:04

Candom

Speaker 418:06

Oh, this world seemed right

Speaker 418:11

Only you

Speaker 418:16

And make the darkness

Speaker 118:20

Right. Yeah.

Presenter18:23

Only

Presenter18:25

The Platters and Only You. You can't interview Michael White and not talk about his reputation with women. It's said that you've cultivated a semi-playboy image, and I say semi because you work rather hard at the same time. I is that fair?

Michael White18:38

Yes, that's not unfair. Why? I don't think there's anything wrong with being a Playboy.

Presenter18:43

But it's important to you to to have a beautiful woman on your arm, isn't it?

Michael White18:46

No, it's not important. It's it's just nicer than having a less beautiful one.

Michael White18:52

I think beautiful women are very

Michael White18:55

They're like, you know, people go to museums to look at pictures. They're like living pictures.

Presenter19:01

Some people would say that's a very sexist remark, of course.

Michael White19:04

It works on both ways. I d I feel I can feel the same way about looking at a very good looking man. I mean, it's a fact that's it's it's an extraordinary thing. It's like it it is like paintings. And there is this politically correct thing that nobody should look good, but it's just it doesn't work that way.

Presenter19:25

So it just gives you pleasure to have a beautiful woman on your arm, and and preferably a young one?

Michael White19:32

Yes, in the sense of

Michael White19:35

younger people look better than older people. Although there are exceptions, a lot of exceptions. I mean, some people can age.

Michael White19:45

Absolutely, wonderfully. It's to do with inner spirit as well, with character. There is no such thing as a beautiful person unless they have something inside as well.

Presenter19:55

But has all of of that image that you have uh got anything to do with your own aging? It's you fighting against the aging process, is it?

Michael White20:04

Possibly. But I've always been like that.

Presenter20:06

And have you always not liked getting older?

Michael White20:10

Always.

Michael White20:11

Yeah, I'd be quite happy to have stayed.

Michael White20:14

Teenager, forever.

Presenter20:16

Wouldn't we all?

Michael White20:18

Exactly. So you're agreeing with me?

Presenter20:19

I'm agreeing with you, but I'm just asking you because it's going to be.

Michael White20:20

Um just

Michael White20:22

I just think most people say things because it's the correct thing to say. Like, oh yes, growing older gives me wisdom. I'm I know more about this, I understand more, I'm more tolerant and s it's just not true. People become less tolerant, they become very set in their ways, This is the thing I think one has to fight against. And that's why I like going to clubs and I like hanging out with young people, because it stops you being so

Michael White20:53

I can only do it one way, this way, and if you don't do it that way, it's wrong.

Presenter20:57

But what is extraordinary about that is that at the age of sixty you still have the energy to work as hard as you do and to be out r raving or clubbing, you know, into the early hours of the morning. How do you do it?

Michael White21:08

I don't suppose I'm lucky.

Michael White21:10

in that sense, and I also like the kind of music that's happening at the moment, which is a lot of people don't like.

Presenter21:17

Do you have any desire for for stability and continuity in your life? Or do you quite like

Presenter21:24

Beyond the node.

Presenter21:26

Don't like routine.

Presenter21:38

Next piece of music.

Michael White21:39

Well I was just in Mexico with my friend Jean Pigozzi and we went to this club and

Michael White21:47

I saw something I've never seen before, which was the guy who ran the club got the entire audience and five hundred people up in rows doing this dance. It was the most impressive bit of showmanship. And I wanted to pick this record because it was a fun thing and it's very good to dance to for exercise on the island. And it's lost a riot.

Michael White22:12

Doing the macarena

Speaker 122:14

When nothing they call me my goddamn

Presenter22:17

And the boys they say good so when I all want me, they can't have me So they all come and dance beside me Move with me, champ with me And if you're good I'll take you home with me

Speaker 422:29

Puedo palenia materna, and the legia co sabuena.

Speaker 422:34

My lady I'm a

Speaker 422:37

Got it!

Speaker 422:38

I'm not sure if I can do it.

Presenter22:42

Los Del Rio and Macarena. We we've talked about the costs of putting on a big show, Michael, but but not exactly about the finances. What's the rule of thumb read the box office takings? Who gets which third and what?

Michael White22:54

Well, generally s speaking, the theatre takes about thirty percent of the box office to cover the cost of the theater, the rent, the staff, the electricity. And then I suppose another twenty to thirty percent goes on all the other costs.

Michael White23:14

So you're left with that margin. Most big shows now would cost fifty to sixty percent of the potential box office take a look at the

Presenter23:22

So you as the producer are are controlling, as it were, two-thirds of the the box office takings, roughly speaking. But what have you got to do with that? You've got to.

Michael White23:28

Yeah.

Michael White23:32

You've got to pay everybody you see on stage.

Michael White23:36

And for everyone on stage there's probably two people backstage. So you have to pay them, you have to pay the author, the composer, the musicians, you have to pay everything.

Presenter23:48

You need, therefore, to have these back, because they used to call them angels, I think you still do.

Michael White23:51

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter23:54

Yeah.

Presenter23:56

Rarer in the sense that they were the people, as I recall it, were around in the boom times when they people liked to dabble in theatre, didn't mind if they lost a bob or two. Who who's doing that kind of thing these days?

Michael White24:03

Collusted

Michael White24:04

No.

Michael White24:06

Well, unfortunately it's much harder, much, much harder to get angels, and a lot of it now is corporate money. It's harder and harder to find individuals.

Presenter24:16

But I suppose those people who do invest in the theatre and uh form a kind of elite gambling club really.

Michael White24:19

And

Michael White24:23

That's a good way of putting it, yes. It's very nice if you invest in a hit to be able when somebody says, Oh, I just saw the show and you say, Well, I'm an investor It's a kind of little it's like it's very similar to the world of racing and race horses.

Presenter24:35

So do you as the producer have a have a a huge number of contacts? I mean would you ring up specific people for specific shows?

Michael White24:42

Yes, I would. There are some people I wouldn't ask in specific shows'cause I know they wouldn't like it or they wouldn't you

Presenter24:49

Mm.

Michael White24:49

It varies, but there are no rules.

Presenter24:52

But your contacts book is probably one of your most important possessions, isn't it?

Michael White24:56

Um, I wouldn't say that. It's pretty good though. My general contacts in the world are pretty good.

Presenter25:03

So you you did all of that very successfully through the sixties. I mean, to name some more of your productions, Son of Oblomov in the sixties with Spike Milligan, Jay Orton's Loot and The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui and of course Oak Calcutta.

Michael White25:08

And

Michael White25:15

That that was Leonard Roster's first Arturo Ui. Yes, he was fantastic.

Presenter25:19

Arturo Ui. Yes, he was fantastic. That was when we first noticed him, really, wasn't it? But then at the end of that decade, the sixties, you were offered the play every producer dreams of, which we'll talk about in a minute. But let's pause for another record.

Michael White25:33

In the sixties when London was really getting going, I

Michael White25:37

then became friends with Chris Blackwell who started the whole reggae thing and I think it's the only music that you don't I haven't got tired of. I mean the Beatles at the time I loved, but it's like eating too many chocolates, I just can't hear it anymore. But Marley is different and I can still hear this.

Speaker 126:00

Yeah.

Speaker 426:02

In the last

Presenter26:25

Bob Marley and Coming In from the Cold. The play that came your way in the sixties, Michael, was Sleuth. Two characters, one set, and it was a thriller. I mean, it's just a it was a delight, wasn't it?

Michael White26:35

It was a dream. But it's funny about that because nobody wanted to be in it. I tried to get every actor you can think of. Laurence Olivier, everyone I remember talking to Laurence Olivier about it, he said, Oh, they won't get it when they'd guess the trick, and there is a trick, it won't work. And of course I felt that that play would work whether you knew it was a trick or even if you didn't, whatever way you saw it. And it took over a year to find anyone to do it and I had to kind of talk everyone into being in it and doing it.

Presenter27:11

Who did you get in the end?

Michael White27:12

Anthony Quayle, who was very, very good knew.

Presenter27:15

But of course Olivier did the film in the end and

Michael White27:16

In the end, Olivia did the film.

Presenter27:19

Then after that you had uh a chorus line and Annie and Pirates of Penzance all through the seventies. And I think at one point you had seven productions running at one time. And then in the eighties you seemed to disappear from the theatrical scene. And after this I.

Michael White27:24

I think it won't be a good thing.

Michael White27:26

Yeah.

Presenter27:33

Show we talked about.

Michael White27:34

Well that put you off? Yeah, that was a terrific blow. And also I became much more interested in film. And then I started up a whole other side of my life, which was with the comic strip, which is a very

Michael White27:49

in retrospect smart move because everybody involved in that whole thing h has become incredibly successful.

Presenter27:56

So you were, as they say, where it was at?

Michael White27:58

Yes.

Presenter27:59

If that's what you like, isn't it?

Michael White28:00

That's what I

Presenter28:01

Yeah. Oh

Michael White28:01

Well, in a sense, it's always fun to see somebody and think they're good and then

Presenter28:01

Yeah.

Michael White28:06

cut to ten years later and everybody else does.

Presenter28:09

Hmm.

Presenter28:10

But you're back very much in in the West End now. As we've said, you've had Crazy View and Fame.

Michael White28:14

If you can say

Presenter28:16

And you're planning, I understand, the first nude musical for years, called Voyeurs with a Z.

Michael White28:23

I must correct you. It's not the first nude musical. It's not that makes it sound like everybody's running around like in a nudist camp. It's not that. It's a musical which is set in a New York nightclub. And during the course of this girl's adventures there are some nude scenes.

Presenter28:42

It's a lesbian night.

Presenter28:43

Yeah.

Michael White28:43

It's a club.

Michael White28:45

that caters to everyone but has a strong lesbian uh tendency. It's not at all like a stro Soho strip show or anything like that. There are moments of nudity.

Presenter28:48

It's not

Presenter28:55

It's interesting though, nudity in the nineties. You know, in the sixties we we thought it was so dangerous, so we we we found it uplifting, I suppose. In the nineties somehow it smacks of kind of sleaze, I suppose. I mean, do we want it? Isn't it a bit depressing?

Michael White29:09

I don't think this will be at all depressing. And you you used a word sleaze which isn't applicable to this. This is going to be quite beautiful. Not at all sleazy.

Presenter29:19

It's going to be a hit.

Michael White29:20

I'm not saying

Michael White29:22

I hope so.

Michael White29:24

I do. I think it will be a hit. I think it'll be so unexpected and so unlike what you're implying it might be. It's going to be the complete reverse of that, which is what is going to make it interesting.

Presenter29:36

Next piece of music

Michael White29:37

This is a song from the show, and in this club, the band who are playing there every night in the play, uh an American female band called Femme de Femme.

Michael White29:50

And um this is a song of theirs.

Speaker 129:54

With crooked wings I got designs on evil things Dark sides of inner song

Speaker 130:06

In my dreams, a wicked ball, we are the wild one.

Speaker 130:18

We are the wild one.

Presenter30:22

Femme to femme and sin. So, after it all, Michael, are you a rich man?

Michael White30:27

No, I'm I'm not. I've been rather bad with money and

Michael White30:32

I should have had a business manager.

Presenter30:34

But you've got this wonderful context book, a successful business, a vibrant social life. I would imagine a desert island would be anathema to you.

Michael White30:41

Correct.

Michael White30:43

I was invited to this very fancy club down in the Caribbean, and the brochure said you will see no one on the beach and the minute I got there I thought this is not for me, I don't want to see no one on the beach.

Michael White30:57

Yeah.

Presenter30:58

Can can you cook? Can you look after yourself?

Michael White31:00

Yes, I'm a good cook. I'd be good at making up the menu.

Michael White31:05

Boiling the veggies.

Presenter31:06

What will you miss most, apart from the company of women, of course?

Michael White31:11

I think the whole social intercourse, which is what I like. I like the social drive of big cities. I could never live in the country.

Presenter31:20

Let alone.

Michael White31:20

There's a wonderful I should have picked the song, there's a famous song, um, which is based uh thirties Broadway musical. They go to the country and they're walking from the station, they say, I hate this, it's so noisy, the birds, the cows, the movie. Get me back to Broadway, get some real noise.

Presenter31:39

Let's hear about your eighth record, which is quite different from any of the others.

Michael White31:43

Well, although he was a horrid person, Wagner, he was, for me, one great geniuses ever. And I love the ring. And I like the sario. It's so sad. It's the end of the gods. And I like this feeling of the end, death, the end of an era.

Presenter33:03

Part of Brunhilde's final aria from Wagner's Goethe Demmerung, sung by Birgitt Nielsson, with the Vienna Philharmonic conducted by Sir George Schulte. If you could only take one of those records, Michael. I wonder which one you'd choose.

Michael White33:16

Oh, I'd have to have a dance one. I think I'd probably take uh

Michael White33:23

Coming in from the cold.

Presenter33:25

Bob Marley.

Michael White33:26

Hmm.

Presenter33:26

And what about your book?

Michael White33:28

I'm going to take Proust.

Michael White33:31

An a researcher stitch.

Presenter33:33

which you've read.

Michael White33:34

Which I've read.

Michael White33:35

Three times.

Michael White33:37

And like very much. And it gives you a whole other world. It's like suddenly.

Michael White33:43

You've got an entire new group of friends family.

Presenter33:47

And your luxury.

Michael White33:48

A bicycle.

Presenter33:50

What are you going to do on this bicycle? Ride round and round in circles?

Michael White33:53

Yes. You want to keep healthy, don't you? And you probably couldn't swim in the sea because of all the nasty little things in it, but

Michael White34:01

You could cycle round the circle.

Presenter34:04

Michael White, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Speaker 134:15

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.