Viscount Rothermere

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety six, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:28

My castaway this week is a press baron, the last, in fact, of the hereditary grandees who once dominated the British newspaper industry. He went to Eton, which he didn't much care for, joined the army in the war, where he wasn't considered officer material, and joined the family firm in nineteen fifty one. He's been there ever since, and as other newspaper owners fell victim to change, he prospered. His titles have gone from strength to strength, and he now presides over the Daily Mail, The Mail on Sunday, London's Evening Standard, and a string of regional papers. He is the chairman of the Daily Mail and General Trust, Ver Harmsworth, the third Viscount Rothermere.

Presenter1:08

Well, that's an introduction that begs one simple question, Lord Rothermere. How did you do it? Why have you succeeded where others have failed or are failing?

Viscount Rothermere1:18

Well, I understand newspapers and I understand newspapers in depth and uh I have a great love of them.

Presenter1:25

It's a consuming passion, is it?

Viscount Rothermere1:27

Oh yes, I adore them. And uh also I love innovation, I love new things, I have a um some instinct for what is going to happen, I have always had an ability to see into the future and I have an extraordinary rapport with uh what will go down with the public.

Presenter1:52

But when you took over in nineteen seventy one, the the national papers that your family owned, the family Silver really, was teetering on the brink of extinction, wasn't it? This has been the great achievement, because your Daily Mail was outsold and outsmarted completely by the Daily Express, and today the opposite is the case.

Viscount Rothermere2:12

I remember the occasion very, very well. Never forget it. When uh

Viscount Rothermere2:17

My father eventually refused to accept the humiliation of closing the family business.

Viscount Rothermere2:22

And my father resigned and handed it over to me and he went to South Africa for six months and

Viscount Rothermere2:33

I decided to turn the newspaper into a tabloid.

Viscount Rothermere2:38

and changed the whole marketing system of the newspaper and made David English the editor.

Presenter2:43

Do you remember the moment when you overtook the Daily Express?

Viscount Rothermere2:48

Oh, very well. That was uh what's ten years ago. Suddenly they we we went above them and they went below us, and they went on falling.

Speaker 22:55

And you can see that the main thing is that it's a very good thing.

Viscount Rothermere2:56

And we went on rising.

Viscount Rothermere2:58

But I should point out that it took us fifteen years to get from one million three hundred thousand to two million.

Presenter3:07

But is that the reason, is is the the thrill of that kind of achievement why you've gone on doing the job and running the family firm? Because, um, quite frankly, you didn't need to work, did you? You could have just turned your back on it all and

Presenter3:20

Laying down in the sun.

Viscount Rothermere3:22

Uh well, how very boring.

Viscount Rothermere3:24

I mean, I couldn't imagine such a life.

Viscount Rothermere3:26

I remember when I was a small boy riding. My father had a most beautiful house in Kent, and we used to take me riding in the mornings.

Viscount Rothermere3:37

and I remember him telling me that my future would be

Viscount Rothermere3:41

As an officer in the blues or the lifeguards, this was about 1935.

Viscount Rothermere3:46

and what a wonderful life it was, hunting and shooting and fishing and all this sort of thing. And I listened to this with a sinking heart, an utter horror at the sort of dreadful prospect that lying before me the last thing in life I ever wanted to do.

Presenter4:01

Tell me about your first record.

Viscount Rothermere4:03

The first record goes back to 1920, although this record actually was made in 1908. But we can't get the one, there wasn't one made in 1920. The reason for that was that my great-uncle Northcliffe, who founded the Daily Mail, was so fascinated by anything in new technology, he arranged for the first broadcast of music in Britain. And this took place from somewhere in Essex and was broadcast by the BBC, I suppose. And Nellie Melbourne sang a piece from La Boheme.

Presenter5:31

Dame Nellie Melbourne singing the aria Mi Kiamano Mimi from Puccini's Laboem, and that was recorded in nineteen hundred and eight.

Presenter5:39

I I get the impression, Lord Rothermere, and maybe this is part of the root of your success, that you actually like journalists. You think they're perhaps more important than the people who manage them, do you? Is that right?

Viscount Rothermere5:50

Yes, I do. Of course they're more important people who manage them.

Presenter5:53

That's not what your father thought, though, was it? He thought you could just nip out into Fleet Street and round up another bunch of them if this lot weren't much good.

Viscount Rothermere5:59

Well, I'm not sure he quite thought as quite as casually as that, no, I don't think he did. I think he was very concerned with journalism, indeed he was. But he tended to pick editors who he could uh tell what to do.

Presenter6:13

But having said that, you have um on an occasion called them hyenas, by which I I presume you mean that they they grin widely and look very pleasant, but um they're not always to be trusted.

Viscount Rothermere6:28

Wolves, perhaps, but I never call them hyenas.

Presenter6:32

Do you think they're always to be trusted?

Viscount Rothermere6:35

I don't think it's a profession in which you necessarily trust everybody. No, of course not.

Presenter6:41

Do you have them to dinner? Do you socialize with them?

Viscount Rothermere6:43

Absolutely, yes.

Presenter6:44

But not the upper echelons. I mean, not not David English. I mean, would you have Nigel Dempster to dinner, for example?

Viscount Rothermere6:49

Well, I did the other day. I like Nigel very much. He's the most amusing idea. Of course I have journalists at dinner. I always have had. I like journalists. I like their company. They're very amusing. They're great fun.

Viscount Rothermere7:00

Obviously, uh

Viscount Rothermere7:02

Be careful about it what you say.

Viscount Rothermere7:05

And journalists tend to develop the most amazing stories about people.

Presenter7:09

Is it true that you once went to Annabelle's and were thrown out because Nigel Dempster had written something about James Goldsmith having an affair?

Viscount Rothermere7:17

I read that story with great amusement. I'd never heard it before.

Presenter7:21

You weren't thrown out of angles.

Viscount Rothermere7:22

Of course not.

Presenter7:25

So you never open your newspaper and read about somebody you know and think, Oh dear, I'm going to have them on the phone, oh dear, oh dear

Viscount Rothermere7:33

Well, I don't know.

Viscount Rothermere7:36

My grandfather, first Lord Rothermere, and Lord Northcliffe, were always outsiders to the English establishment. Northcliff always took the view that to be a newspaper proprietor you had to be an outsider.

Viscount Rothermere7:50

And uh that's my view too.

Presenter7:53

In what sense do you regard yourself as an outsider?

Viscount Rothermere7:57

If you are an insider, it's very, very difficult to uh be immune from people approaching you and influencing you not to do this or to do that.

Viscount Rothermere8:07

and uh trying to distract your attention from your real business.

Viscount Rothermere8:13

to promote their idea of what your real business should be.

Presenter8:18

Next record.

Viscount Rothermere8:19

Now the next record is Schetza by Bartock.

Viscount Rothermere8:25

Played by Zaltan Kocciz, conducted by Ivan Fischer, the Budapal Festival Orchestra, which I happen to be

Viscount Rothermere8:35

Presidents. It is a wonderful young orchestra and will be one of the world's great orchestras.

Presenter9:40

Part of Bartok's Scherzo for Piano and Orchestra, played by Zoltan Kochisch with the Budapest Festival Orchestra conducted by Ivan Fischer.

Presenter9:48

Can we talk about your early life, Lord Rothermere? You went to Eton, but you didn't like it much. Why not? What went wrong?

Viscount Rothermere9:54

Well, I didn't dislike it. I quite enjoyed it. It was in the wartime. Consequently the masters all brought back from retirement.

Viscount Rothermere10:03

And they were very amiable, but I'm afraid in that doubtage a lot of them.

Presenter10:07

Bit old-fashioned.

Viscount Rothermere10:09

And the atmosphere of Victorian education didn't uh fit my uh mentality barely.

Presenter10:17

You went off to America, though, didn't you, and rather rather better enjoyed education there?

Viscount Rothermere10:21

Um yes, I was uh in nineteen forty and I was sent to a marvelous school called Kent, which my grandfather had been a patron of. This school was much stricter than Eton, but it was modern. The atmosphere was modern and very, very positive.

Viscount Rothermere10:36

And the education was absolutely first class. I mean, I suddenly realized what an education really was.

Presenter10:42

And were you any good academically?

Viscount Rothermere10:44

Well, when I left Kent I was really r beginning to become good academically. Then got back to Eaton in nineteen forty one and I did very well for the first year. And then this awful negative atmosphere of British education sort of seeped into one. One became sort of brain dead.

Presenter11:03

So you didn't go on to university, you didn't have to be in the middle of the year.

Viscount Rothermere11:05

Well, the war, there was a war. This was in 1943, so there wasn't any question of going to university.

Presenter11:07

Yes.

Presenter11:12

So then you joined uh you did your national service you you you went into the war, did you?

Viscount Rothermere11:15

Did you forgot?

Presenter11:16

Did you see action?

Viscount Rothermere11:17

I saw a little bit in in France, but nothing really, no.

Presenter11:20

Where were you stationed, then?

Viscount Rothermere11:22

I stationed in England and then I went through France and I went to Egypt and I spent the last two years of my military service in Egypt.

Viscount Rothermere11:30

And Palestine.

Presenter11:32

And and all the time in the ranks you you weren't promoted. Why not? It's it's extraordinary that.

Viscount Rothermere11:37

I don't know, really. I think I was very immature and um that was quite properly not uh considered mature enough to be an officer.

Presenter11:46

But did you think you were officer material?

Viscount Rothermere11:49

Well, I think we all automatically think that, don't we? I mean, you know, all everybody starts off thinking that.

Presenter11:55

But did you have a sense of failure, therefore?

Presenter11:58

that you weren't promoted.

Viscount Rothermere11:59

Yes, of course. Obviously. Yes, as being honest about it, one naturally does.

Presenter12:05

Tell me about record number three.

Viscount Rothermere12:07

Record number three is one of Northcliffe's favourites. Now Lord Northcliffe loved new technology. Records were new technology in his day. Radio was new. Aeroplanes were new. And he was a great enthusiast for aeroplanes, for everything to do with the air, and for records and broadcasting. And one of the first records made was Eddie Cantor singing How You Gonna Keep Em Down on the Farm when Once They Seen Gay Parie. And he used to listen to this over and over again because he was not so much interested in the music as in the miracle of the voice being recorded.

Presenter12:07

Yeah.

Viscount Rothermere12:49

How you going to keep'em down on the farm after they've seen Harry?

Viscount Rothermere12:56

How you gonna keep them away from Broadway jazzing around, paint of the town? How you gonna keep them away from harm? That's a mystery. Imagine Reuben when he meets his pa. He'll kiss the cheek and holler, ooh la la. How you gonna keep him?

Viscount Rothermere13:19

Uh

Presenter13:19

Eddie Candor, how are you gonna keep him down on the farm?

Presenter13:23

The First Lady Rothermere said that when you first went to work as a young man they put you, and I quote, in a glass box in the middle of the editorial floor with no secretary, and nobody sent you any memos, and you had nothing to do except hang around all morning waiting for lunch. Is that true?

Viscount Rothermere13:38

Um no, it's not true, I'm afraid. Um um I wasn't unfortunately on the editorial floor. I wasn't uh allowed to my father didn't want me to mix with journalists because I preferred to mix with journalists.

Presenter13:51

So your glass box was somewhere else, was it?

Viscount Rothermere13:53

So my glass box well, I didn't have a glass box. I was put into the advertising department. I worked on first thing I did work on postal bargains. And then I went on to classified advertising, which is one of the most important areas of newspaper work.

Presenter14:07

But very difficult, presumably, when you're the boss's son, you know, to get people to take you seriously. You don't know if they're talking about you behind your back or

Presenter14:16

Yeah. How do you cope with that? Or how did you cope with that?

Viscount Rothermere14:17

Well, I've never worried what people say behind their back. I I listen to other people talking about other behind other people's backs. So I realized that everybody is talked to talked about behind their back. So why is one any different? Well, it's human nature, so it doesn't bother me.

Presenter14:34

You live abroad for the most part. You've got houses in Paris and in New York. How closely do you keep in touch with your newspapers? How often do you ring up London?

Viscount Rothermere14:43

Oh, every day.

Presenter14:45

How many times a day?

Viscount Rothermere14:46

Got I lose count, I don't know, quite a lot.

Presenter14:49

Would you ring up and say, that was a good edition today? Or do you ring up and say, look, I really don't think you should be running these sorts of stores? Well, a newspaper company.

Viscount Rothermere14:55

Well, a newspaper company is is a very big operation, and there's a lot more to it than just uh the editorial. You have a whole massive operation here. You have a very big company with policies, with finance, with everything else.

Presenter15:10

Of course, but then that's like every other business. What's interesting about the newspaper business is how much say the owner has or cares to have in in the editorial side of the newspaper.

Viscount Rothermere15:20

Ah, that's true.

Viscount Rothermere15:21

Uh what I have, my way I handle uh this particular thing is that I insist on very high standards of journalism.

Viscount Rothermere15:30

Being on the ball, getting scoops, being uh being up to date, not not falling behind other newspapers, all those sorts of things.

Presenter15:37

But you've agreed before all of this the politics, presumably, and you'd be very surprised if one of your newspapers suddenly started to back the Labour Party, wouldn't you?

Viscount Rothermere15:45

Not in the least. That's if there was a possibility.

Presenter15:49

Is it?

Viscount Rothermere15:49

Oh, always.

Presenter15:51

Do you think you might be backing Tony Blair for the next election?

Viscount Rothermere15:54

I think that some of my newspapers might be sympathetic to

Viscount Rothermere15:59

Tony and others will be sympathetic to John Major. One of the things my newspapers I insil uh also insist on, that the editors

Viscount Rothermere16:10

The politics are those of the readers.

Presenter16:12

So to be absolutely clear about this, it's possible, is it, that

Presenter16:16

At the next general election, your newspapers may decide to back Tony Blair and the Labour Party.

Viscount Rothermere16:22

Now, uh when I appoint an editor

Viscount Rothermere16:25

I only appoint people who I believe to be of great talent.

Viscount Rothermere16:32

And people of great talent have their own opinions.

Viscount Rothermere16:36

And they like working for me because I let them have their own opinion.

Presenter16:42

But you're going to discuss the politics of the newspaper with them, particularly at an election. You've had lunch with Tony Blair and so have they

Viscount Rothermere16:47

Well, of course, if you are the person who decides on their salaries, they will naturally.

Presenter16:54

Want to know what you think.

Viscount Rothermere16:56

I want to ask your opinion. I mean, even my dog does that.

Presenter17:00

Well, I'm ask I'm asking your opinion. Do you think your newspapers should back Tony Blair at the next election?

Viscount Rothermere17:00

Well, I'm asking

Speaker 217:01

Come on.

Viscount Rothermere17:01

Do you think you're

Viscount Rothermere17:07

I have a suspicion that some of them might.

Presenter17:12

Record number four.

Viscount Rothermere17:13

Now our fourth record is Sotikovich's Symphony No. Eight. This is conducted by Valery Gurgieff. He is one of the world's greatest conductors.

Viscount Rothermere17:26

He was very young.

Viscount Rothermere17:28

He will be a name that's known as well as Karayan.

Presenter17:35

This is your prediction because you see into the future.

Viscount Rothermere17:37

Yeah.

Presenter17:39

More of that in a moment, let's hear Shostakovich.

Presenter18:42

Part of the first movement of Shostakovich's Symphony No. Eight in C minor, played by the Kirov Orchestra conducted by Valery Geergieff.

Presenter18:50

Tell me about this seeing into the future you've mentioned, Lord Rothermere. What form does it take?

Viscount Rothermere18:56

Well, a lot of it's um instinctual feelings, a lot of it's uh calculation how I see developments coming.

Presenter19:03

But you believe in the paranormal, don't you?

Viscount Rothermere19:06

Not particularly no. Um I have a respect for it because I think that um the existence of conscious life is a miracle of such a kind as to make every other miracle possible.

Presenter19:20

But is it not the case that you have spoken to people on the other side, as it were?

Viscount Rothermere19:26

No, I I don't think so, no. I haven't actually spoken to anyone on the other side.

Presenter19:30

But well, receive messages from them then.

Viscount Rothermere19:33

Well, people send me messages that uh I've never been to a medium, I've never had any with a medium. Um I have heard voices occasionally, but from uh people I know. But

Presenter19:48

What sort of people saying what sort of thing?

Viscount Rothermere19:52

Well, ma uh a personal message and and I hear a voice of someone I know, you know.

Presenter19:57

Someone you've known who's dying.

Viscount Rothermere19:59

Yeah.

Presenter20:00

And what sort of messages

Viscount Rothermere20:02

Personal ones, you know.

Presenter20:03

Just comes into your head.

Viscount Rothermere20:05

Well, I just hear it, yeah, so yeah. But it's very rare. I've only had it happen once twice, I think, in my life.

Presenter20:12

But you believe in astrology as well, don't you?

Viscount Rothermere20:16

I don't.

Presenter20:17

I read that you would consult the astrologer. This is a good story. Consult the astrologer of the Daily Mail, Patrick Walker, as to the date you ought to launch the new mail on Sunday, for example.

Presenter20:28

Yeah.

Viscount Rothermere20:28

My wife was very keen on astrology and she used to do that and I said, Well, why not? I mean, would be was get the O mens right, you know. I'm a great believer in Omens.

Viscount Rothermere20:39

I think omens are very ancient, they go back into prehistory.

Viscount Rothermere20:43

And in the course of my life I've seen a lot of omens, and they always mean something.

Presenter20:48

What sort of omens?

Viscount Rothermere20:50

Something happens and it's just a good omen or a bad omen, like your house burns down, my house burns down.

Viscount Rothermere20:57

And it means usually that your marriage your family's going to break up.

Viscount Rothermere21:03

And it did in fact happen and uh

Viscount Rothermere21:06

I've seen a lot uh of those sort of things.

Viscount Rothermere21:09

I they always seem to mean something.

Presenter21:12

Tell me about your next record.

Viscount Rothermere21:13

Now my next record is from Marla Symphony number two, conducted by Zubin Mehta, who is one of the greatest conductors of Mala, and I am a great lover of Mala.

Presenter22:26

Part of the fifth movement of Mahler's Symphony No. Two, played by the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Zubin Mehta.

Presenter22:33

You wrote in a poem to the first Lady Rothermere on her death a few years ago, O Lady with the Marla Soul, was one of the lines of that poem, and the poem was called I Love You, and you read it out at her funeral. Am I right in thinking that you felt her rather maligned by the press? They wrote about

Viscount Rothermere22:50

Oh, very much so. She had a terrible part of her life in the end. I believe that she suffered from postnatal depression. I never heard of this condition, so one of my daughters my daughter had it and recovered from it. But she was treated for it, and I therefore learned a lot about it. And the problem with it is if it isn't treated, it can become a permanent problem.

Presenter23:21

And you believe that's what happened to the first Lady Rothermere?

Viscount Rothermere23:23

I think she had it, she fought it and she uh overcame it to a remarkable degree, but I think it was always there and it undermined her whole balance, her whole mental balance and um I think

Presenter23:34

So where did the why did she get this image? I mean, she was nicknamed Bubbles by the press.

Viscount Rothermere23:38

Well, that was because she was full of life. I mean, she was a woman of terrific life.

Viscount Rothermere23:43

and enormous heart.

Presenter23:46

and seem to be very fun loving, very sociable.

Viscount Rothermere23:46

To be very fun loving very

Viscount Rothermere23:49

Yeah, very fun loving and sociable, great fun.

Presenter23:51

Very extravagant.

Viscount Rothermere23:52

But this made her more and more eccentric, more and more erratic, this thing. And um of course that coupled with her tremendous uh explosive personality made her a natural target and she loved publicity too, so the whole thing was uh was already a quite a cocktail in the end.

Presenter24:11

But do you think in the end because she was your wife and because she was active on the social scene as we've described that she was fair game for the press?

Viscount Rothermere24:20

I think once you put yourself on the public stage

Viscount Rothermere24:24

You become

Viscount Rothermere24:26

A game for the press, whether it's fair or not is

Viscount Rothermere24:29

Neither here nor there, life is not a fair thing.

Presenter24:32

So you are happy sometimes if if journalism is unfair, right?

Viscount Rothermere24:36

I think that uh I would seek uh my newspapers to be always fair.

Presenter24:41

But I'm talking about general gossipy stuff about people in public life.

Presenter24:47

Which

Presenter24:48

Perhaps the public might be interested to read, but is not really necessarily fair game.

Viscount Rothermere24:54

Should you publish the activities of

Viscount Rothermere24:58

uh well-known people, uh amorous activities.

Viscount Rothermere25:03

What you're talking about is really an extended form of gossip, in other words, gossip which has actively gone out to find out and has reported, to sort of create the gossip may be there, it's probably happening, and they've gone out to actually establish that the Graph of Gossip is actually happening, and then printing it as a sort of factual gossip.

Viscount Rothermere25:25

Uh

Presenter25:25

And that's all right, is it?

Viscount Rothermere25:27

Well, personally, I don't like it.

Presenter25:31

You wouldn't seek to say, look, I don't actually approve of this.

Viscount Rothermere25:34

Um no.

Viscount Rothermere25:36

I mean I can't because other newspapers do it, so we have to do it.

Presenter25:41

But you wouldn't like it if it happened to you, would you?

Viscount Rothermere25:43

I can't rem recollect that it could happen to me actually. I mean, uh perhaps I'm sure I've been staked out lots and lots of time, but uh

Viscount Rothermere25:52

I don't think that's a good idea.

Presenter25:53

But you've got quite a a a a colourful personal life, you know. You ran a miserable.

Viscount Rothermere25:57

And I wouldn't really mind. I mean, I don't think I would worry too much about her.

Viscount Rothermere26:05

hurt my wife or my mistress.

Viscount Rothermere26:09

Uh well, we had um what you might describe as uh a marriage which was uh like that. Uh so my wife had her boy her friends and I had my friends, yeah.

Presenter26:21

But if it were written about at large

Viscount Rothermere26:24

It was.

Presenter26:26

Did it hurt?

Viscount Rothermere26:27

No.

Viscount Rothermere26:28

Not a bit.

Viscount Rothermere26:30

Um not me anyway. I don't think that minded very much.

Presenter26:36

So it's all fair game. We're all fair game, are we?

Viscount Rothermere26:38

And I think printing gossip is one thing.

Viscount Rothermere26:41

I think staking people out is one of those things that you do because the others do it and if you don't do it, people being what they are, they will want to read it somewhere else.

Presenter26:50

So to survive in newspa in the newspaper business you have to be prepared to be amoral.

Viscount Rothermere26:56

Well, you call it immoral, and anyway, why do you think it's a moral?

Presenter26:59

I think to to go against your beliefs, to do something that you believe shouldn't be done, but to do it because everybody else is doing it, is pretty amoral.

Viscount Rothermere27:08

Well, do you think the whole of British society is immoral,'cause that's what the whole society does.

Presenter27:14

Next record.

Viscount Rothermere27:16

Yeah.

Presenter27:18

Number six.

Viscount Rothermere27:19

The next piece I've chosen is from Tchaikovsky's piano concerto, Marga Argaric, who is one of the world's greatest pianists.

Presenter28:28

Part of Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto, Number One in B flat minor, played by Marta Agerisch, with the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra conducted by Ricardo Schaill.

Presenter28:38

Um are you Lord Rothermere, or or have you been a great lover of the social life, as as your first wife was? I mean, are you the man who always wants to go on somewhere when everyone else is heading for home?

Viscount Rothermere28:49

No, I've never much been I've never been a social person and um I've always wanted to go to bed rather than go out late. I mean, not when I was very young, that was rather different.

Viscount Rothermere29:00

I thought you were great.

Presenter29:00

I thought you were a great dancer and a great party goer.

Viscount Rothermere29:02

I love to ask it.

Viscount Rothermere29:04

I like dancing, but um I'm not a great party go. I never have been, no, no.

Presenter29:10

So a a desert island would be all right for you, would it, then? It wouldn't be the purgatory it might be.

Viscount Rothermere29:15

Well, I like ladies. I didn't say I would like to be alone. I like to be alone for a while, but not for too long. I mean, I do like the company of ladies very much.

Presenter29:24

And and could you manage on your own? Have you ever cooked or made yourself a meal?

Viscount Rothermere29:28

Oh, I'm a very good cook.

Presenter29:29

Hiya.

Viscount Rothermere29:29

Hiya.

Presenter29:31

And and could you, you know, m make yourself some clothes or build a something to live in?

Viscount Rothermere29:35

But I couldn't make myself any clothes. I might be able to build a shelter. I I'm afraid I'm no good with a needle and thread or anything like that. I'd hate to be on a desert island by myself actually. I can't make anything worse. All right, for about a l for a weekend perhaps, but that's about it, I think.

Speaker 129:46

Done.

Presenter29:53

Tell me about record number seven.

Viscount Rothermere29:55

Um this is Rachmaninos Picciano Concerto number three which is a very exciting piece.

Presenter31:04

Part of the finale of Ragmaniloff's Piano Concerto No. three in D minor, again played by Marta Agerisch with the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra, conducted by Ricardo Schailli.

Presenter31:14

You own, then, Lord Rothermere, three main newspapers. Apart from all your provincial ones, you own a morning, an evening, and a Sunday. Is that ideal, do you think? Or or should you be going for a broadsheet, a serious news? They're all tabloid, aren't they, these bits?

Viscount Rothermere31:26

Uh well I my papers are national newspapers of tabloid, and uh and it's very efficient to have a morning, an evening and a Sunday, because you maximize the use of your equipment. We have a Normus printing plant, which is a very ultra-modern plant.

Viscount Rothermere31:43

It is printed by Flexo process. And the advantage of it is that our paper, our ink, cannot come off on your hands. It's completely clean. You can read the Daily Mail, you can read the Evening Standard, and your hands will be just as clean when you put it down as when you picked it up.

Speaker 131:46

And the d

Presenter32:00

Here ends the commercial. But would would you like a serious newspaper? Would you like a broadsheet? Have you aspirations?

Viscount Rothermere32:06

I I might well do something like that one day, yes.

Presenter32:11

Which one would you be interested in?

Viscount Rothermere32:13

I start one over one there.

Presenter32:16

They've obviously given you a great deal of pleasure, these newspapers that you've made so successful. But you're seventy-one this year, later this year.

Viscount Rothermere32:24

Uh

Presenter32:25

When are you going to retire? When are you going to hand over the reins to your son?

Viscount Rothermere32:29

Well, um

Viscount Rothermere32:31

He's only twenty eight, so it'll be quite a long and he's very able. He's running a newspaper, he's doing it very well. He's a very tough young man, he had a very tough upbringing, um and he's very capable.

Presenter32:44

So when do you forecast the moment will come when you'll hand over the reins? Oh, when I go ga-ga. When's that?

Viscount Rothermere32:50

Well, I actually think it's already started, really, so you can tell from this interview. But uh.

Presenter32:57

But will you be bored stiff when you do hand over?

Viscount Rothermere33:02

I suppose probably, yes, I don't spy going on to do it.

Presenter33:06

Tell me about your last record.

Viscount Rothermere33:08

So their last record is the Bruckner Symphony No. 9.

Presenter34:13

Part of Bruckner's Symphony No. nine in D minor, played by the Berlin Philharmonic, conducted by Herbert von Carrion.

Presenter34:20

Well, now, if you could only take one of those eight records, Lord Rothermere, which one would it be?

Viscount Rothermere34:25

Well now, I might surprise you by saying how you going to keep them down on the farm, because I have a suspicion that when Northlife was listening to that, he was thinking, This great public who are beginning to learn about life and about what's happening in the world

Viscount Rothermere34:43

How are you going to keep them down on the farm?

Presenter34:46

Hmm.

Presenter34:47

What about your book? Because on this island you've got um the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare waiting for you.

Viscount Rothermere34:53

I've never read Dante's Inferno, since a small boy. We had an ancient volume of Dante's Inferno complete with wonderful illustrations, and I greatly enjoyed looking at the illustrations, but as the text was in Italian I was really unable to follow it very much. And Dante's Paradise, and those I would like to be able to read.

Presenter35:14

And what about your luxury? A luxury for the man who has everything already.

Viscount Rothermere35:19

Well, I thought if you're on a desert island for any length of time, one problem you're going to have is cutting your nails.

Presenter35:28

Says a pair of scissors.

Viscount Rothermere35:30

So I thought a pair of scissors would be the most useful thing you could have, because life without a pair of scissors would become very difficult. Chewing your nails is never a very satisfactory thing.

Presenter35:42

DEAR HARMSWORTH, Lord Rothermere, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Viscount Rothermere35:48

Thank you.

Speaker 135:56

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Dists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.