James Bowman

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 20:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety five, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:28

My castaway this week is a singer. Physically he's a big man, but in contrast his voice is unusually high. He's a leading member of that increasingly important band of musical specialists, the Counter Tenors. After Oxford, where he won a scholarship, he auditioned for Benjamin Britton, who immediately offered him the part of Oberon in his opera A Midsummer Night's Dream. Since then, he's hardly been out of work, establishing himself as this country's most distinguished counter tenor and overseeing a renaissance in Baroque music.

Presenter0:59

He himself remains modest about these achievements. My greatest claims to fame, he said, are that I knew Benjamin Britton and Peter Peirce, and that I once had lunch with Maria Callas. He is James Bowman. Did you really have lunch with Maria Callis?

James Bowman1:12

I certainly did in a hotel in Turin, yes, I remember it very clearly.

Presenter1:14

Uh

Presenter1:15

It was it an impressive occasion.

James Bowman1:16

It was rather sad anyway. She was sitting there on her own, having lunch, and the peop I was with Raymond Lebard at the time, and Sisto Bruscantini, an Italian baritone, and they they knew her, of course, and they said,'Come on, come and join us for lunch' and she was sitting there rather sadly, with her dark glasses on. It was like something out of um separate tables.

Presenter1:35

Well, now tell tell me about this voice, because you have uh a a critic has written the physical stature of a rugby forward.

James Bowman1:41

Well, I used to pay for beers.

Presenter1:42

Oh, did you?

James Bowman1:42

Very badly at school, yes.

Presenter1:44

But it is therefore surprising when this this falsetto voice emerges from such a frame. How surprised were you that that was where you found your voice, as it were?

James Bowman1:49

Yeah.

James Bowman1:53

I wasn't surprised at all, but I know a lot of other people are. I was a boy soprano, and as far as I was concerned, that's what I wanted to sing, and I really didn't give a damn what anybody else thought.

Presenter2:04

But then can you make is it contrived?

James Bowman2:06

Oh yes, entirely. It's it's an artificial voice. There's s such an an awful lot of um confusion about this and we're nothing to do with castrati, we're nothing to do with all these curious freaks that exist in the in the vocal world. No. It's a contrived falsetto voice. It's highly developed and turned into a voice in its own right.

Presenter2:25

Isn't it a technique that that is used also in pop music these days? I mean, you do hear that.

James Bowman2:28

You do hit

James Bowman2:30

Yeah, oh yes, falsetto is quite commonly heard. I mean the obvious example is Jimmy Somerville.

James Bowman2:35

The Beatles have used it, the Beach Boys have used it. I mean it's certainly not alien.

James Bowman2:39

An alien vocal technique to the world of popular music and

Presenter2:41

I suppose good vibrations is the most obvious example of speech voice.

James Bowman2:45

I think so, yes. I mean, that that's the one that springs to mind.

Presenter2:47

But you would find that, in comparison with what you do, somewhat crude, shall we say?

James Bowman2:52

Well, it's a terrible thing to say, isn't it? It's they they use it in a more unbuttoned way, shall we say.

Presenter2:57

So what's the technique? What do you do?

James Bowman2:58

You're actually singing through a very small orifice. When your chords vibrate, it's like they vibrate in a normal way of the membranes.

Speaker 23:05

Embrace.

James Bowman3:06

vibrating together, but when you sing falsetto you tighten the muscles and sing through a much smaller orifice, that's the way of putting it, without sounding too basic. The nearest analogy is the harmonics on a violin.

Presenter3:18

Exactly, you're using

James Bowman3:20

Exactly. You're using a small part of it. Exactly.

Presenter3:23

But why did you choose to do it?

James Bowman3:25

Because I liked the repertoire and I liked the voice and my particular upbringing, my um school where I wo was at was extremely interested in that sort of music. I mean, I had I had a I had a very precocious Baroque background and therefore to me it was no surprise to sing this particular repertoire.

Presenter3:41

Right. More of that in a moment, but let's get you to this desert island. Tell me about your music. What's the first disc you'll play there?

James Bowman3:47

Well, a composer who I've loved all my life, really, since I was a small boy, was Benjamin Britton, who I've had a great deal of association with latterly in my career. I've always loved his music, and I've sung his opera Midsummer Stream more times than I care to remember. But I'm very fond of his opera Billy Bud. I think it's a wonderfully atmospheric piece. I mean, Britton is a genius at conjuring up an atmosphere, as you'll hear in this extract. And this particular piece is a great favourite of mine. And Benjamin Britton and Peter Piers were good personal friends of mine. I wasn't a close friend, but they were both very kind to me when I was starting my career.

Speaker 35:03

I'm an old man who has experienced the money.

James Bowman5:08

What's it?

Presenter5:21

The opening of Benjamin Britton's Billy Bud with Peter Peirce and the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Benjamin Britton.

Presenter5:27

Tell me about how you first met him then.

James Bowman5:30

Well, it was one of these marvellous things, you know, by chance. I just heard that auditions were taking place at Covent Garden for A Midsummer Night's Dream, and I was at this time a prep schoolmaster in Oxford, having finished my degree.

James Bowman5:42

And, you know, so many things happen by accident, you just happen to be the right person around at the right time. And I turned up at Covent Garden and auditioned for Midsummer's Dream.

Presenter5:50

This was mid-sixties.

James Bowman5:51

This was sixty-six, yes, that's right. It was in the crush bar. That place where you go and get knocked over in the interval and you try and buy a glass of tepid white wine. Anyway, uh if you look under the stairs, there's a very beer-stained, battered little piano covered by a canvas cover. And this was wheeled out. They were having auditions and the Britton and Sir David Webster and various other people were sitting at the end where the doors are where you come up, and we all had to sing at the far end.

James Bowman6:18

And luckily I'd taken the trouble to um learn a large chunk of the piece so I didn't feel too much like a fish out of water.

Presenter6:26

Doesn't everybody do that?

James Bowman6:27

Well, it was very strange. People turned up and sang very una inappropriate repertoire. I mean, I think if you're auditioning for a particular piece, you sing that piece. I mean, if you're going to audition for Phantom of the Opera, you're not going to bring Don Giovanni along, are you?

Presenter6:34

Yeah.

James Bowman6:40

Or whatever. So anyway, I I did this and uh I think they were all a bit tired'cause I I came along at three forty five in the afternoon and they'd started at half past ten that morning and I think they probably had a bit too much to drink for lunch and so they were all half asleep.

James Bowman6:53

Anyway, I started to sing and they all woke up. Started passing notes around, which was very nice.

James Bowman7:00

And um after I'd done my bits, Britton came up to me and he said, Ham, have you ever appeared on stage? and I said, No, never and he said, Oh, we'll soon change that, which I thought was rather a good omen.

Presenter7:09

So you were discovered? Well, I suppose I was.

James Bowman7:12

Believes.

Presenter7:13

It was a it's a classic lucky break.

James Bowman7:13

And if

James Bowman7:15

It was. You're absolutely right. It was one of those things. I remember thinking, If I don't do it now, I'll never do it.

Presenter7:19

And he he then asked you to go on stage, I think, for the opening of the Queen Elizabeth Horde.

James Bowman7:23

That's right. He uh I got a surprise invitation to take part in the first concert when the QEH was opened.

Presenter7:30

And that was because Alfred Della had told me that.

James Bowman7:31

That's right. Um he had been approached, but he wasn't free.

Presenter7:35

And he was really the the only counter tenor around then?

James Bowman7:39

Well, he was in those days. He he was the big name, and the role in Midsummer's Dream had been written for him. He'd done it.

Presenter7:45

So, in that sense, the fact that Britain found you at that moment when Della would have been, what, in his mid-fifties, it was.

James Bowman7:51

Yes, I mean I I I was I was quite a useful acquisition at the time.

Presenter7:51

Yeah.

Presenter7:55

Well I was quite

James Bowman7:58

Well, I was quite lucky because there wasn't much composition. You've got to be honest about these things. If there's fifty sopranos and only one uh one or two accountous owners, I mean you're obviously in with a chance, aren't you?

Presenter8:08

Absolutely. Let's have record number two. Tell me about that.

James Bowman8:11

Well, this is a countertenor, a very esteemed colleague of mine, Michael Chance, singing one of my favourite composers, which is George Frederick Handel, from an opera I'm very fond of, Tamilano, and he's singing the aura Cherco Invano di Placcare with John Ellicard and the English Baroque soloists.

Speaker 38:35

Be the one.

Speaker 38:59

Uh

Presenter9:16

Michael Chance singing the aria Cerco Invano di Placcare from Handel's Tamilano, with the English Baroque soloists conducted by John Elliott Gardner. Michael Chance, the the the torch bearer for the next generation, really, if he's in his thirties, isn't he

James Bowman9:29

Yes, Michael's in his late thirties.

Presenter9:31

But there's far more competition around these days.

James Bowman9:33

There is. I mean, there were a a mere handful when I started, but now there must be a lot of very high quality counter tuners around. I mean, twenty, twenty five singing soloists. I mean a lot who sing in choruses as well, but singing

Speaker 39:41

Yeah.

Presenter9:41

So you'll see

Speaker 39:41

E soloist

Presenter9:42

Send me a lot.

James Bowman9:45

Shall we say worldwide, other countries have now taken it up as well.

Presenter9:48

It remains, although less so, it remains a curious voice nevertheless. That that that voice sounded to me like a like a female contralto.

James Bowman9:52

Yeah.

James Bowman9:58

Yes, that's interesting you say that, because to me I would know immediately it's a man, but being, as it were, on the other side of the fence, perhaps it's easier but it doesn't sound effeminate. It might sound like a feminine voice, but it's not effeminate. I it's it's an intrinsically masculine sound.

James Bowman10:15

You don't sound convinced.

Presenter10:16

Well, I didn't think Alfred Dellas was. I mean he could

James Bowman10:18

Well Alfred was a very disembodied, wonderfully almost a spiritual sound. It was another worldly sound. Michael makes a much more worldly sound. A creature of this planet was, I think, Alfred made a sound as if he came from another world altogether.

Presenter10:31

But but one of your critics, I think another famous countertainer, Jochan Kowalski, has said that you sound disembodied.

James Bowman10:36

Yes.

James Bowman10:37

Well yes, he does. Jorkin, of course, has a very vibrant, full-blooded and his voice can sound quite effeminate. I don't mean that in a pejorative sense. I mean it's purely as a as a characteristic. It it can sound like much more like a woman. My admirers and my detractors, I think, are all agreed that I probably sound like a man. I don't sound as if I was imitating a woman. But it's a very moot point, and if you sing in a high register, people are always going to associate it with uh a feminine characteristic. This is inevitable.

Presenter11:07

So so l let me ask you then the obvious question. Back at school in the fifties when you were seventeen, eighteen, your voice had broken, you cultivated this particular um uh form of singing. Did you get a lot of stick from other boys?

James Bowman11:19

Not really, because if you go to an all male boarding school, boys have to play girls' parts in school plays, boys have to sing in the everything in the choir, it's it's you have a go at singing that, and you're just told to do it, and the boys

Presenter11:31

Yes, but it's different when you a actually choose, isn't it?

James Bowman11:33

Yes, but you see the school I went to is associated with Ely Cathedral, where it was steeped in in this English choral tradition.

Presenter11:39

Hmm.

James Bowman11:39

I mean, I quite agree. Some boys used to snigger a bit and say, but I used to say to them, I bet I'm I'll make more money than you, but

Presenter11:45

Probably right.

Presenter11:46

When did you first hear a woman singing them?

James Bowman11:49

I remember hearing a performance of Messiah when I was about seventeen or eighteen and a female soprano came and sang the soprano solas, and I must say I I was absolutely amazed. I I mean I thought it was lovely, but I I thought, oh, that's interesting.

James Bowman12:04

There it is.

Presenter12:05

Right, record number three.

James Bowman12:07

This is a very wonderful piece which I love and it's totally out of keeping with my normal repertoire. It's Hubert Parry whose music of course I knew as a boy. We used to sing his anthems in the cathedral. But it's his Best Pair of Signs, known rather irreligiously in the business as Bless Pair of Nylons. But it's so quintessentially English that I've always loved it. And I love the text by Milton as well.

Presenter13:26

Hubert Parry's Blessed Pair of Sirens, sung by the choir of Winchester Cathedral with the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra conducted by David Hill.

Presenter13:33

So if music, James Bowman, had been your life until you were eighteen, how come you you got a history scholarship to Oxford?

James Bowman13:40

Well, I'm not very academically minded. The thought of reading maths, the thought of reading greats, any of those subjects absolutely horrified me, so history was a fairly soft option.

Presenter13:49

And you studied under Hugh Trevor Road.

James Bowman13:51

Well

James Bowman13:53

No, I went to his lectures, but I wasn't very good, and I'm afraid I didn't do a lot of work, and I got a fairly hopeless degree.

Presenter13:58

You've got a fourth now.

James Bowman13:59

That doesn't exist anymore.

Presenter14:01

But what is a for is it a pass?

James Bowman14:03

No, no, it's an honest degree. I'm to I mean, Oh yes no no

James Bowman14:07

I was vivid, I think, from a fail up to a fourth. And I've got I got the rabbit fur, I you know. I mean, and when I took my AM A, the Vice-Chancellor, who I knew quite well, laughed out loud.

Presenter14:17

And you and you told is this right, you told Trevor Roper that you'd never read a book?

James Bowman14:21

No. Uh huh. Roper actually said to me in exasperation at my Viva when I ma was making a bit of a pig's eye. In desperation, he said, Um have you actually read any books at all in the last three years? And I bit my tongue and was almost about to say not many, but I thought it was not a good idea to be facetious, so I I can't remember I made some floundering remark. I mean it's the most terrifying experience in Oxford Fiverr, especially if you know you're teetering on the On the brink of oblivion

Speaker 314:46

Oblivion

James Bowman14:48

And you have to dress up in this terrible white tie and thing, you know, and

James Bowman14:52

Go to the examination schools and it's all absolutely terrifying.

Presenter14:55

But you acquitted yourself well in other matters. You apparently became very good at running uphill.

James Bowman15:00

Well, I used to sing in two choirs, yes. I was in the uh choir at Christchurch uh cathedral, which is the chapel of Christchurch College or the and a new college and the the two places didn't um coincide, so I I used to run from one to the other. You're quite right. I was jolly fit in those days.

Presenter15:15

And then you you graduated, as we heard, and and briefly, but very briefly, you were a schoolmaster.

James Bowman15:20

Well, I did because it in you have to keep body and soul together.

James Bowman15:24

So I was in at a at a prep school.

Presenter15:25

Or to teach history.

James Bowman15:27

No, I taught geography, history, games, oh, anything anything they wanted. I mean, you know, they were desperate.

Presenter15:33

And you were desperate and you hated it, is that right?

James Bowman15:35

I well, I didn't it was amusing, and some of the boys that I taught come up to me now and say that you were absolutely hopeless as a teacher.

James Bowman15:43

My teaching career is remembered in certain places.

Presenter15:46

But then you met Benjamin Britton, so war was warmed up.

James Bowman15:48

Well it sounds as if it yes, that but it was all it all happened after that, yes.

Presenter15:52

Let's have the next uh piece of oh, it isn't music.

James Bowman15:55

No, it's I I love the spoken voice. Um when I was thinking about my disad island discs, I thought it would be a terrible shame to be marooned on an island and never hear

James Bowman16:05

English spoken.

James Bowman16:07

I mean, you could listen to the wind and the birds and heaven, but you'd long to hear a spoken voice, wouldn't you? I I would miss it terribly, I must say.

Speaker 316:13

Hmm.

James Bowman16:14

And I'm a great lover of Alan Bennett. I love his powers of observation, his wonderful, wonderful writing. And uh I was very tall on which of these talking heads to have, but I love Stephanie Coles. I've always been an admirer of hers. I love her voice.

James Bowman16:27

I love the inflection she put into her voice, and this particular extract is a very touching one.

Presenter16:32

It's a funny time, three o'clock.

Presenter16:34

Too late for lunch. Yeah.

Speaker 216:36

But a bit early for tea.

Speaker 216:38

Besides, there were one or two brave souls who trekked all the way from Wolverhampton.

Speaker 216:44

Couldn't risk giving them tea, or we'd have had a mutiny on our hands.

Speaker 216:47

And I think people like to be offered something. even if they don't actually eat it.

Speaker 216:53

One's first instinct was to make a B line for the freezer.

Presenter16:56

Uh

Speaker 216:57

Yeah.

Presenter16:57

and rout out the inevitable quiche but I thought

Presenter17:00

You're real, old girl. That's the coward's way out. Stephanie Cole's reading part of Alan Bennett's Soldiering On, and you better tell us the clowns. What she what's she talking about?

James Bowman17:08

Well, she's actually leading up to the party at Batwell Party, the wake, back at her house after her husband's funeral.

Presenter17:14

Mm.

James Bowman17:14

And all these people who have turned up she never knew at all. And it's it's a very, very touching story.

Presenter17:18

Terrific, no.

Presenter17:20

Benjamin Britton, we were saying earlier on that he'd written Oberon specially for Alfred Della, the part of Oberon in A Midsummer Night's Dream. Did he write anything for you?

James Bowman17:25

That's right, Ken.

James Bowman17:29

Yes, he wrote me a small role in his opera Death in Venice, his last opera, and he also wrote a setting of a T S Eliot poem, The Journey of the Magi, for me with Peter Peirce and John Shelley Cook, The Three of Us.

Presenter17:40

Terribly flattering.

James Bowman17:41

Wasn't it? Yes, I was absolutely thrilled. It was a it was a lovely gesture. I remember when he wrote to me about it, and I wrote back and said how pleased I was and he he wrote a postcard ending with the words

Presenter17:42

Isn't it?

Presenter17:51

Graham

James Bowman17:52

What was he like?

Presenter17:52

What was he like? What was he like to meet?

James Bowman17:55

He was like a prep school master a bit. He was very shy.

James Bowman17:58

Very correct.

James Bowman17:59

You could never cross a certain line with him. He was one of these people that always kept a distance between you and him.

James Bowman18:05

a touch perhaps of royalty about him.

James Bowman18:07

But uh

James Bowman18:09

You knew that if he approved of you that it, you know, it was it was a very great honour.

Presenter18:13

So he increased the operatic repertoire of the counter tenor by

Presenter18:17

a large percentage actually, if you read at least three major

James Bowman18:20

Well, uh the role of Oberon of course is a major composition anyway in its own right to set to set the Shakespeare opera to music so beautifully.

Presenter18:27

Music.

James Bowman18:28

And then to set this role, this central role, for this rather unusual voice, was a great gamble, and people at the time told him he was mad, but he stuck to his guns.

James Bowman18:37

He didn't want a woman singing it, he didn't want a tenor to do it, he wanted a counter tenor, he wanted my my category of voice, and he wrote me a very sweet note after I'd done it, saying that I had vindicated his choice, which I thought was nice.

Presenter18:48

But the repertoire is generally really quite restricting, isn't it?

James Bowman18:52

Well, it's enormous up to the death of Bach and Handel, as it were, at the end of the um

Presenter18:55

Yeah.

James Bowman18:58

Eighteenth century, then it fizzled out.

Presenter18:59

There's nothing.

James Bowman18:59

There's nothing in the nineteenth century.

Presenter19:01

But Handel was presumably writing for Castrati, who would have written the data.

James Bowman19:04

Yes, this is true. Uh most castrate came from very poor families. I mean, they used to come to England. The story goes that they wouldn't get off the boat until they were paid in cash.

Presenter19:15

But wonderful parts were written for them, as you say, about handsome Xerxes, Tamilano, we heard.

James Bowman19:17

As you say back,

James Bowman19:20

Yes, oh wonderful Julius Caesar, all these wonderful operas written for the

Presenter19:23

Yes. And would Mozart have meant Carabino to to be sung by a Carabino?

James Bowman19:26

No no, Carabina was sung by a woman, I think, from the word go, but in Mozart's early operas, like Mitridati, there were castrato parts. But Mozart dropped the castrato in favour of women.

Presenter19:33

Yeah.

Speaker 319:33

But

Speaker 319:37

Hmm.

James Bowman19:37

fashions moved on and he got away from the Baroque world into the more Verismo world. So they're really their heyday finished with the death of Handel, when when Handel stopped writing.

Presenter19:48

But now you, I'm told, have officially given up opera, is that right?

James Bowman19:52

The thing I've mainly given up is doing it some night stream. I've done it a lot now. I've done ten productions and I've sung it a lot of times and I felt it was time to give that a rest. So I obviously since my s my main role was Oberon, it sounds awful to say I've given it up because it means I've rejected it, but it doesn't mean I don't like it, but I just think it's time that I moved on to other things.

Presenter20:10

But it's such a narrow repertoire anyway, as we were saying, for the counters to cut up opera out of it.

James Bowman20:12

Yeah.

James Bowman20:15

Well, yes, but basically I got tired of doing silly productions with silly producers.

Presenter20:19

BAAP

James Bowman20:19

Not in this country any, but I mean I think uh the opera scene in this country is wonderful, I love it.

James Bowman20:26

But um no, I made a very conscious decision to give up the stage.

Presenter20:29

Next piece of music.

James Bowman20:31

Ah now this is conducted by one of my great heroes, Bernard Heitink, with whom I did the aforementioned uh Mitsumais Dream at Leinborn. We did a wonderful production with Peter Horn and Bernard conducted it absolutely wonderfully and I've always adored Brahms's music. I've always said he's a desert Island composer of mine. I've used that as a a loose expression and I love

James Bowman20:49

Brahms are symphonies, and to hear the concerco bar conducted by Bernard to me is perfection.

Presenter21:54

The opening of Brahms Symphony No. Two, played by the Royal Concert Gebar Orchestra of Amsterdam, conducted by Bernard Heitink.

Presenter22:02

Your career, James Bowman, has been linked with a revival of Baroque music, Monteverdi, Purcell, Bach, Handel, Couperin, which in turn, as we've been saying, has meant more prominence for the counter tenor, which is why there are more around.

Presenter22:15

How important a part, how much credit do you claim really for the revival of Baroque music?

James Bowman22:22

I don't claim a re credit for the revival, but I claim, shall we say, to have played a large part in um

James Bowman22:28

Pushing it all along in in a in a sort of active way. Uh when I first started, this uh revival of old instruments really didn't exist at all.

James Bowman22:36

They were totally unknown in this country and not very much on the continent either. It was all performed in my early days by the English Chamber Orchestra, the Academy of St. Martin, the Fields, and the Specialist Chamber Orchestras. But then, with the arrival of people like Christopher Hogwood, all that began to change, and then the record companies started to take an interest. I think the whole revival really couldn't have happened without the interest of the specialist record labels. And I.

Presenter23:00

Yeah.

James Bowman23:02

Yes, indeed, very much so. I mean, uh, with C D's and the rest of it, and

Presenter23:06

So what's created the the appetite? Obviously the the recording techniques meant it was possible. What's created the appetite, do you think? Do you think it's because because there are only a finite number of classical composers, you know, if you're if you're going to go on and on listening to them, you want to hear them played in different ways.

James Bowman23:19

Well, I think people were so excited when they first heard works like this in Matthew Passion, the Bachan Tatars, um, bits of handle, I mean French baroque music. When they first heard it performed on old instruments, it was an absolute revelation. And people really wanted to go on hearing more and more.

Presenter23:34

It's a completely different noise.

James Bowman23:35

Oh, totally, yes. I mean, it's it's the way the instruments are strung, the the bows are different, the style of playing is lighter and everything. I mean, it's a if if you play Otto Klemperers and Matthew Passion compared with John Elliott Gardner's, they sound like two totally different pieces.

Presenter23:48

And you apparently prefer working with those musicians.

James Bowman23:52

They're incredibly sympathetic, wonderful people to work with. Some of my best friends are Baroque instrumentalists. I love them dearly. And there's much more of a feeling of camaraderie in the Baroque world than you get being backed by an enormous symphony orchestra.

Presenter24:04

Record number six.

James Bowman24:07

Now Mozart's another great love of mine, my my stepfather's.

James Bowman24:11

a Mozart fanatic and at home I always remember Mozart being played all the time. I've always loved his music. Once again it's instrumental. You probably think it's a bit odd that I'm constantly choosing instrumental music but I prefer to sing than listen to singing often and I love instrumental playing. I I find a great joy in hearing a violin concerto or as in this case a violin viola together and this particular piece I've always been very fond of.

Presenter25:36

Part of Mozart's Sinfonia Concertante K three six four, played by the Academy of Saint Martin in the Fields, conducted by Neville Mariner.

Presenter25:44

You you had a a vocal crisis in your mid thirties, James. What happened?

James Bowman25:47

I did, yes. It was a very traumatic time, and I've never concealed it. I think it's good to.

James Bowman25:55

You know, if you hush it up, people begin to wonder what happened. No, I had a very dear colleague, David Munro, who's a wonderful musician who who committed suicide in 1976. And largely it was a result of overwork, the usual old thing. You forget about your technique. If you're working very hard, if you're on the crest of the wave, you tend to not worry about the basics. You think you'll get by. And of course, you don't. But I had a very bad schedule. I had to do a big recital in Vienna. And then I had to fly very early the next morning to Cologne to do.

James Bowman26:26

For some reason a radio bro recording it before lunch, which is madness if you've done a big recital, flown I mean, flying's the worst thing in the world for a voice anyway. And I was run down and I had a throat virus and I sang on a v and my voice said, Right, thank you very much.

Speaker 226:36

Uh

Presenter26:36

And

James Bowman26:42

and packed up on me literally in the studio.

Presenter26:44

But disappeared.

James Bowman26:45

I I couldn't control it.

Presenter26:47

But I

James Bowman26:47

And I knew something was pretty badly wrong.

Presenter26:49

And how long did it go away for?

James Bowman26:51

I lost my self-confidence and I really couldn't sing decently for about another four years.

Presenter26:55

Good heavens.

James Bowman26:56

Yes, it was pretty traumatic.

James Bowman26:58

And then suddenly, in true British fashion, I said to myself, Pull this all together.

James Bowman27:02

And it came back again, luckily.

Presenter27:04

So it was connected to emotional structures.

James Bowman27:06

It was. I mean a lot of it was psychosomatic.

Presenter27:08

Yeah.

James Bowman27:08

I mean but you've got to be very careful what you do.

James Bowman27:12

And a lot of people have never forgotten him. Critics still say, How nice to hear James Bowman back on form again

Presenter27:17

And and was it different when it came back on form?

James Bowman27:20

Yes, it was slightly. It had a rather youthful quality before then, and and shall we say it became more mature.

James Bowman27:26

It was a shock.

Speaker 327:26

Yeah.

Presenter27:26

British sh

Speaker 327:26

Shock.

Presenter27:27

Yeah.

James Bowman27:28

It was very, very uh dispiriting timing. To lose your self-confidence when you've always been rather full of confidence is a very, very unpleasant thing.

Presenter27:28

It was

Presenter27:36

And and how long does a voice last? Now now you know to look older.

James Bowman27:39

Well, I used to say I used to say in my youth, Oh, I won't go on singing beyond fifty But it's very difficult to say. I mean if I say if I say now, it's then carved in tabbards of stone. If we say, Right, retire at whatever age you say, I think you just go on. But if s if your closest and nearest and dearest tell you it's going, then's the time to give up. And I've got a lot of good friends who I know will say to me, Look, uh I think it's about time you gave up.

Presenter28:03

And is that depressing to anticipate that moment when you no longer have this this very precious thing about which your whole life has been?

James Bowman28:09

I think it's a terrible moment, but you've got to have the st I hope to have the strength of character to be able to do it. I think there's nothing worse than hearing an artist who's passed it.

Presenter28:17

Record number seven.

James Bowman28:19

Now this is a very odd choice. This is Charles Villiers Stanford, who was an Irish composer, largely neglected and forgotten nowadays, but in the nineteenth century he was Mr. Big. He ran music in London. Him and Hewitt Parry were the two big names. And my antecedents are Irish. My mother is Irish, and my grandmother was the daughter of an Irish archbishop, of which I'm very proud.

James Bowman28:40

Archbishop of Dublin, before that Archbishop of Armagh. So my family is Irish Protestant, pre-partition Irish Protestant. And this symphony I love because it reminds me of going on holiday in Ireland when I was a young child. We used to go to Donegal every year for our holidays. And my grandmother was very staunchly Irish. She would never sit in a room with the curtains open because she was afraid she might have been shot at by the RA. I mean it was the troubles.

James Bowman29:05

impinged upon her life and she was wonderful. She used to do the washing up in her hat just to prove that she shouldn't really be doing it because she was used to being looked after. But she was a a real Irish lady and she loved the music of Charles Villiers Tamford.

Presenter30:17

The opening of Charles Villiers Stanford's Irish Symphony No. three, played by the Ulster Orchestra, conducted by Vernon Handley. I'm told, James, that you have a working model, complete with lights, of the old Vic in your living room. Does this show a love of theatre or architecture, or simply that you're good at making things?

James Bowman30:34

Oh all three actually. I I I love models.

James Bowman30:38

Um if you'd asked me what my hobbies were, I mean I love making things with my hand, I love a tube of glue, a cut out model and a pair of scissors, that's my idea of r relaxation. I I don't knit.

James Bowman30:48

I don't do tapestry, but I love making things with my hands. And I've always loved theatres.

James Bowman30:54

And uh this wonderful man who makes uh toy theatres, it's actually rather large, it looks like a big doll's house. It sits in my uh living room and

Presenter31:02

So you didn't make it.

James Bowman31:03

No, it was made for me, I commission

James Bowman31:06

No, I didn't actually make it, but I made uh all the scenery and all the rest of it. And it's pro it's got proper lighting and everything.

Presenter31:11

So you've hung the curtains nicely.

James Bowman31:12

Oh yes.

James Bowman31:13

Yes.

Presenter31:14

So, what it all adds up to is give you a bit of old driftwood and you'll be as happy as a sandboy on this island.

James Bowman31:18

Well, I'd have to have some Yoohoo glue. It's very essential that.

Presenter31:21

But what about emotionally? Could you could you stick it all alone for heaven knows how long?

James Bowman31:27

No, I think I'll be pretty hopeless actually.

James Bowman31:29

Um I'cause I like human company.

James Bowman31:32

If if you're in the music business, half your time is spent gossiping with other people. And I think I've miss my friends terribly, yes.

Presenter31:40

And would you would you sing to yourself or or probably more than you would play your records or vice versa?

James Bowman31:40

Yeah.

James Bowman31:43

More than you would play

James Bowman31:46

I wouldn't sing a lot, no.

James Bowman31:48

I think my voice would probably go into recession totally. I'd be quite good at building a house. I I'd get on and make myself a ha a habitation. I'd enjoy that. But once the novelty had worn off, then I think total depression would set in.

Presenter32:02

Last record.

James Bowman32:03

Oh, yes, very appropriate for sitting on the beach at night looking at the sunset with Richard Strauss's four last songs. I love Richard Strauss's music. I like the violence of Salomir and the eroticism of Electra and all these things. I think they're wonderful operas. As a Baroque singer, I would never ever perform it. It's totally outside my brief as a singer, and that's why it's a sort of forbidden fruit. I love the lusciousness of it. And this particular recording by Jesse Norman is, for me, the ultimate.

James Bowman32:30

In Forbidden Fruit.

Speaker 332:36

Just one hundred.

Speaker 332:39

Lord's heart is stormy, and gloriously.

Speaker 332:59

Regulars.

Presenter33:27

Richard Strauss's Bein Schlaffengeen, one of his four last songs sung by Jesse Norman with the Gevanthaus Orchestra of Leipzig conducted by Kurt Mazur.

Presenter33:36

So, James Bowman, which is the most necessary of those eight records to you on your island?

James Bowman33:42

Gosh, I think it's probably the Brahms.

James Bowman33:45

As I've said before, I've always felt of Brahms as a desadarne type composer.

Presenter33:49

What about your book?

James Bowman33:51

I'm not the world's greatest reader, I read spasmodically.

James Bowman33:54

I eventually decide I'd probably like to take Rebecca.

James Bowman33:57

Daffy DeMore is Rebecca.

Presenter33:59

It was good yarn.

James Bowman34:00

Well, it's a good yarn.

James Bowman34:02

I was thinking today that the heroine's such a drip she wants a good slap. I mean, if I if I'd have been the heroine, I'd have given misses Danvers a what for pretty quickly told her to get the hell out. But uh it's such a marvellous story, and it's so beautifully written.

Presenter34:14

Hm. How many times have you read it?

James Bowman34:16

I don't know about th I think

James Bowman34:18

At least twice.

Presenter34:20

What about your luxury?

James Bowman34:21

Ah, nah, yes, I'm very specific about this. Um since I've come from a world where um one has taken part in glamorous productions, one has sung in glamorous places, wonderful venues

James Bowman34:34

To say nothing of the glamorous people you meet, I'd I'd have to take something fairly glamorous, so I thought I'd take a Faberge egg.

Presenter34:41

Wonderful.

James Bowman34:43

Oh yeah, no, no, I'd make a special little shrine for it as as a as a memory of the of the exotic Baroque world which I've uh inhabited from time to time.

Presenter34:52

James Bowman, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Speaker 235:05

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.