Glenys Kinnock

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For rights reasons, we've had to shorten the music.

Speaker 10:08

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen ninety four, and the presenter was Sue Lawley.

Presenter0:29

My Castaway this week is a politician. For most of her life, however, she's been a politician's wife, albeit an extremely high profile and independent one.

Presenter0:38

She was brought up in North Wales, and at the age of twenty two married a man who was to become leader of the Labour Party. She supported him loyally and effectively, but when he stood down she took up the political cudgels herself, and was returned as a British MEP with the biggest majority in Europe.

Presenter0:55

Six years ago I interviewed her husband as a castaway on this programme. Today it's her turn. At the age of fifty she's at last a politician in her own right. She is Glennys Kinnock. Is it a case of at last, Glenys? I mean, is it something of a relief to have your own political voice?

Glenys Kinnock1:12

Ah, yes, I think it has been a pleasure to be able to speak out about things that I care about and to be I mean, it's still a surprise when you said a politician now. I'm still brought up short by the idea that I can be described as one. But I I am enjoying it.

Presenter1:26

But nevertheless, very strange having uh now to be the main player, you to be the one who's got the appointments, who's got the secretary, who's got to be somewhere. I mean, it must be a very odd transition.

Glenys Kinnock1:36

It is odd, but of course I have been familiar with that kind of setup through Neal, I suppose, but also as part of a team that went out campaigning in elections and so on. I was quite familiar with how things were.

Presenter1:48

But I read somewhere that you turned up at at at s at your own campaign, sort of thinking, Where's the candidate?

Glenys Kinnock1:52

I know. I as I went around canvassing and campaigning, I'd often say, because you're always told that you must make sure that the candidate gets into the photograph with whoever is the person from the party there giving them support on that particular day. And I would quite often find myself saying, Well, where's the candidate then? You know, why isn't she or he here to stand with me while we turn on this thing or reveal the plaque or something? So it it has been quite a surprise for me, even on those occasions, and I still do pinch myself and

Glenys Kinnock2:22

I I think I have a sense of having to prove myself too, which perhaps others don't have to the same degree as I have. To prove yourself to yourself? To myself and also to others, to prove that I'm not there as Neil's wife, but I'm there in my own right. And I don't think I necessarily have to do that, but it's something I find very difficult to avoid feeling that.

Presenter2:30

To myself and also

Presenter2:44

Uh

Presenter2:47

Well, for years of course have written about you as as the Labour Leader's Wife and then the former Labour Leader's Wife. Aren't they now, now that Neil's been made a European Commissioner, going to say wife of the British Commissioner?

Glenys Kinnock2:57

That's right. They probably put it all together and need a side of A four to do it. I think it does take some time to describe my role. I hope that the day will arrive when I will be Gleniskinnock MEP, and that's quite sufficient, I think, now.

Presenter3:11

Well, we're here to take you away from all of that to a desert island full of your favorite music, so tell me about your first record.

Glenys Kinnock3:17

It's not really, I don't think, even my favourite music. It's very difficult to choose. I've had about dozens of stabs at it, as everyone, I'm sure. But my first one would be Paul Simon singing It Was a Sunny Day, because that will remind me of time spent in the car when the children were little. We played a lot of Simon and Garfunkel. This one with just Paul Simon would remind me of a little yellow mini that I had, and the children strapped in the back, and we used to sing it, and it was always very happy, even when it wasn't a sunny day.

Speaker 43:47

Was a sunny day.

Speaker 43:51

Not a cloud was in the sky

Speaker 43:55

Not a negative word was heard.

Speaker 43:59

From the peoples passing by

Speaker 44:03

Was a sunny day?

Speaker 44:07

Got a cloud was in the sky.

Presenter4:13

Paul Simon, and was a sunny day. So your political success, Glynnis, really, in becoming an MEP, was born of Neal's failure to become Prime Minister. He wouldn't have done the one if he'd achieved the other.

Glenys Kinnock4:25

That's right. Uh and of course it would have been

Glenys Kinnock4:28

Better to have won the election and have had Neil as Prime Minister. But as things turned out, there was a vacant seat for the European constituency of South East Wales. And I thought after a lot of people had asked me to do it, and I'd said, No, no, no, I can't do that. Why should I do that? I've never done that. And women friends particularly said, Well, you're always asking women to stand for election. What put your money where your mouth is? And suddenly well we were driving along to see Rachel in Bristol and I asked Neil who was going for this seat and he said, Well, I don't know, it's a few people. And I just said, Well, I think I'll have a go for it. And he nearly drove the car off the road. He was so shocked because I had never discussed it with him.

Glenys Kinnock5:10

But it occurred to me that I should have a go. And he didn't mind. He's been a little bit more. He was delighted. He was absolutely thrilled because he does think that being a member of the European Parliament is an important job.

Presenter5:13

He was delighted.

Speaker 15:14

Uh

Glenys Kinnock5:21

I've certainly found that as a backbencher in the European Parliament I can achieve far more than I've observed backbenchers in Westminster are able to achieve.

Glenys Kinnock5:30

Well, you're the majority party, right? We're the majority party and uh I mean I've had a responsibility for the development budget as a backbencher and you can't imagine that ever happening in Westminster.

Presenter5:30

Building.

Presenter5:39

But it is portrayed nevertheless the European Parliament as being really rather ungainly and a bit of a talking shop and and really a bit boring, is it?

Glenys Kinnock5:48

I don't think it's boring at all, and I've been quite surprised at how exhilarating it's been working there. Obviously, it's difficult to watch because of the problem of translation. When people are funny and it takes some time for that joke to come through, then obviously it's lost. So people tend to to speak in a very concise way and get their message through, and you often have very short times to speak in.

Glenys Kinnock6:13

That does make it less exciting. But on the other hand, because we have a less confrontational system, it means that we actually get on with working towards the objectives that we have. And that suits many of us, particularly I think women, and it's a much happier, more relaxed place to work in. But what would happen, Glenny? If a second If Labour seat. was offered to you. for the next election.

Presenter6:39

I do it.

Glenys Kinnock6:40

Would you be tempted? No, I would not, because since Maastricht and in the years ahead, I think that we'll have a lot more power and we will be translating the things that we do, I hope, into more accessible English, more understandable English, less of the gobbledygook, and we will explain what we're doing and people will feel that we have more relevance. Record number two.

Glenys Kinnock7:01

Record number two is David the Garregwen, which is a very sombre, typically Welsh but beautiful song about death and dying and angels of death and so on. It reminds me of my childhood, not because that was dull and sombre and grim at all, but because I did a lot of singing as a child in chapel. My grandfather was a deacon and he entered me for lots of singing competitions and I represented the chapel that I attended. And this is just one of the songs that I used to sing and it's still my party piece, I have to say, that I'm often asked to sing David the Garretwen. It's a very beautiful song.

Speaker 47:39

Are you

Speaker 47:42

Feel the daub is

Speaker 47:46

One.

Speaker 47:54

I see all the king of

Presenter8:09

Dava the Garra Gwen, David of the White Rock, sung by Thomas L. Thomas. So your family, Glenniskinnick, was Welsh speaking, chapel going Labour, and your dad was a railway signalman and a union official. I have this this vision of you shut up in the signal box with him learning politics at his knee. Is that right?

Glenys Kinnock8:26

I did, and I can remember when I was about fourteen finding out that not everybody did that and had their house full of Labour Party election material and so on. I thought everyone was the same.

Glenys Kinnock8:37

But my dad was very involved politically and claims that in the nineteen forty five election that my pram was filled with election literature when I was a year old and distributed. So it was very much part of my life. What did you feel passionate about then as a girl?

Glenys Kinnock8:54

I think because of where I lived, I lived in Hollyhead and a lot of the people that I knew had travelled wild widely, including my father, who'd been a merchant seaman.

Glenys Kinnock9:05

So I was very interested and very concerned even then about the rest of the world.

Glenys Kinnock9:13

I remember John Cole saying that people who live

Glenys Kinnock9:16

on the coast have broad horizons. They look out and they they tend to look out beyond the place where they live.

Glenys Kinnock9:22

And I think I always did that. And my father, I remember in nineteen fifty six, the Suez Crisis said to me, This is their canal. You must remember that this belongs to people and this is Africa and it doesn't belong to us. And those kind of things were very formative and important.

Presenter9:39

And you felt strongly about capital punishment, animal rights, women's rights.

Glenys Kinnock9:43

I just had this very strong sense of justice, I think, more than anything, a sense that people had rights to common justice and rights to freedoms and liberty. And I suppose, although there they were only half-formed thoughts at that age, that really was where my politics came from. And it certainly wasn't based on reading Karl Marx and so on. It was much more a response that came from feeling that people were not getting their fair share.

Presenter10:13

But you weren't a a a rebel. You were a golden girl, a good daughter, a good pupil, you were a head girl. Your report said you were bright I quote bright, mature, and intelligent. Uh what did you think you were going to do with your life? I was

Glenys Kinnock10:25

Yeah.

Presenter10:25

Don't

Glenys Kinnock10:25

A good girl. The head the head of the school made me head girl because I had been so naughty and then turned out to be quite good in the end.

Presenter10:32

It's good tactic.

Glenys Kinnock10:34

Because my main problem was that I didn't stop talking and I was always campaigning and and doing things on capital punishment and so on. So it was a bit of a nuisance at school. But when I he quite liked that, I think.

Presenter10:45

But all of that description and you were obviously quite confident and as you said just now you you used to sing on Eye Steadford platforms and that sort of thing seems to be contradicted. I see Neil told a newspaper recently that you you lacked confidence at university. He says I had to try all my arts of persuasion to get her to run for student office. How do you explain that?

Glenys Kinnock11:05

So, what happened? Because at school I was very confident and I did involve myself in drama and debates and so on. But when I went to university, I did lose my confidence. I did feel.

Glenys Kinnock11:16

that every one else was m much cleverer and much better able to get up and speak.

Glenys Kinnock11:22

I was very homesick and took a long time to adjust to being a long way away from my parents. I missed them very much. And I think that's really m what affected me. Record number three.

Glenys Kinnock11:35

Record number three was I thought I'd put this in because I do like country and western, I have to say, but Tammy Wynnette singing Stand By Your Man I thought might avoid you asking some of the questions that you might naturally want to ask.

Speaker 411:47

Cause after all

Speaker 411:51

It is just a man.

Speaker 411:55

Stand by it, friend.

Speaker 412:01

Get them to arm the coincidence.

Speaker 412:06

And something warm to come too.

Speaker 412:10

When nights are cold and lonely

Presenter12:16

Tammy Wynnette and Stand By Your Man. So how much did it pain you both, when Neil was leader of the Labour Party, that you were represented as the power behind the throne, that that it would be said and written that you were more intelligent than Neil?

Glenys Kinnock12:31

Obviously it all of that was was painful and difficult to take day after day. It was relentless. The description of me as being very manipulative and always undermining Neil, either doing that or developing policies for the Labour Party, all completely untrue. But

Presenter12:48

But did you understand perhaps why people might say that? Probably because Neil was publicly very flamboyant and impulsive, whereas you always appeared very controlled and dignified, and perhaps people had the impression that you were saying to him, Look, don't do that. You know, do it like this. Calm down. Don't lose your temper.

Glenys Kinnock13:07

Mm.

Glenys Kinnock13:08

Well, I th I think that that was something, quite honestly, that the press in this country saw as a way of of getting at Neal.

Glenys Kinnock13:16

And it's a very effective way of implying that in some way he was weak because he had what they described as a strong wife. With Dennis Thatcher and Maggie Thatcher, they did the opposite, of course. It was the hen pecking which was to give her the strength. So we we were in a no-win situation. And it's still the same because when Neil was leader, they said that I was telling him what to do, and now that I'm an MEP, they say he's telling me what to do. So whatever we do, we don't seem to be able to win.

Presenter13:46

I suppose the other excuse the press might put forward is that that you um were and are uh a very active person. You went to Greenham Common, you went to miners' rallies during the strike. I think Neil once described you as his eminence rouge, which was perhaps a mistake. That they felt you had political views and had to be delivering them over the meal tables at home.

Glenys Kinnock14:08

I yes, and I never understood why they did that and and the things that I did, the issues and campaigns that I got involved with, because that was the only way for me to operate really and one that was naturally what I enjoyed doing. And I never felt I had to apologise to anyone for it, and never at any time did Neil feel that it was inappropriate or for me to do it or that I shouldn't do it, and nobody ever told me that I shouldn't.

Presenter14:30

So is is the sad truth of being the wife of a leading politician that if you are willing to be modest and self-effacing, the press will leave you alone. They'll just

Presenter14:40

Do you over a couple of times for your fashion sense or lack of it. But if you're if you're viva vivacious and articulate Then

Glenys Kinnock14:47

And you're going to be pillowed. It did get less towards the end of Neil's leadership the last few years. They did lay off quite a bit. What advice have you given to Cherie Blair about how to deal with all of this? None at all, because we're very good friends. I'm extremely fond of both of them, and I'm sure that they'll both find their own way to manage the press and the interference in their personal lives, because that's the major problem, is protecting your children. And I know that Tony and Cherie feel that is the most important thing for them to do, and they've spoken to us about that. And Tony, I know, has often said that he takes heart from the fact that Neil was leader for many years during the time when his children were adolescents, and that Stephen and Rachel have turned out very well. So I think he and Cherie take heart from that.

Glenys Kinnock15:39

Next piece of music. The next piece of music is the love duet from the first act of Madam Butterfly. I'm not a great opera lover, but Madam Butterfly I love very much, and this is such a passionate, romantic piece of music. It makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck. It's absolutely wonderful.

Presenter16:49

Renato Scotto and Carlo Bergonzi singing part of the love duet from the first act of Puccini's Madam Butterfly, with the orchestra of the Rome Opera, conducted by Sir John Barbaroli. I can see the hairs standing on the back of your neck.

Glenys Kinnock17:01

Oh, isn't it?

Presenter17:02

Mm-hmm.

Glenys Kinnock17:02

Ava Ha ha.

Presenter17:04

So let's talk about the night of the great defeat, um, april nineteen ninety two, obviously a turning point in your lives, as we've said. Had you contemplated defeat beforehand during the campaign, or did it come as a total surprise?

Glenys Kinnock17:17

During the last week of the campaign, I went up to Norwich and the constituencies in in that part of the country, and I had a sense then that things were slipping away very badly from us.

Presenter17:30

Did you and Neil talk about it? I mean, did you sit and face each other, I'm sure you did, and said, Look, what's gonna happen if we don't get it after all this?

Glenys Kinnock17:37

Uh

Glenys Kinnock17:37

We didn't talk about what was going to happen if we didn't get it. I always knew that if we didn't win, Neil would immediately resign. He'd always said that, that uh if this time it didn't work out, then he would feel that it was

Glenys Kinnock17:49

Time for someone else to lead the party, that he had done everything that he could. At what point was it on the night that you knew, that Neil knew, that's it? I think during the day, results were coming in from the regions, and people in our party were in touch throughout the day. We were in Isla in the constituency, we'd voted in the morning, and we were just hearing that the responses, that people were turning out very slowly, and so on. And there was just a nervousness that crept in that although we knew that we weren't going to have a decent majority, there was always perhaps the chance that it would be a hung parliament, that those were the circumstances that he and his office would have to deal with. But as the day went on, there was more and more a sense that it was slipping very badly indeed, and that the likelihood was that we wouldn't win. And certainly by the evening, of course, that was very clear. And even though exit polls were giving contrary evidence, we actually knew and we were preparing ourselves for dealing with the defeat.

Presenter18:53

And

Glenys Kinnock18:53

Then when

Presenter18:53

In that that famous result that Basildon, the key marginal that y you had to win, came in and it was a Tory hole. That was just after eleven o'clock.

Presenter19:01

Is it true that Neil then said that's it?

Glenys Kinnock19:03

Yes, he did. And he's you know, people had been saying, Oh, it could be okay, it it might just swing, you can't be certain. But at that point, Neil said, Right, that's it. We've got to now prepare for how we deal with the next few hours. And we we had to go, of course, to his count and he had a magnificent result, a huge majority and great support. But when we got um to the count, of course, uh there were hundreds and hundreds of people outside, lots of people crying. Um it was very emotional. And you cried, you cried a lot, didn't you? I almost want to cry describing it to you now. It's very um strange.

Glenys Kinnock19:43

Uh yes, because um we had hoped for such a lot and you just felt people had been let down.

Glenys Kinnock19:51

And some people said you were more upset than Neil.

Glenys Kinnock19:54

Well, I I grieved really and showed what I felt more than more than Neil did. Niels was contained, I think, which perhaps wasn't such a good thing. I felt absolutely desolate, and I I suppose because he was so dignified and so strong, it I felt ashamed that I wasn't able to do that, but I genuinely was incapable of responding in any other way than

Glenys Kinnock20:23

to grieve for him and also for the people of of the country, because I have believed very much that they had made a very, very serious mistake.

Glenys Kinnock20:32

More music.

Glenys Kinnock20:34

The next piece of music is Ode to Joy. Because it is the European anthem, it's it's lovely because it's orchestral music combined with choral music, which I like very much. And also it reminded me of the European elections because all the Labour candidates were given a take.

Glenys Kinnock20:49

Which we recorded our own voices after a piece of this music. So I have many memories of the South Wales valleys with great renderings of Ode to Joy reverberating around the hills, and people in the constituency say, Oh, God, there she goes again with that music, but I'd very much like to have that on the island.

Speaker 421:10

The sober middle leader must be

Speaker 421:30

In their service there, I must find us by design.

Speaker 421:37

Billy Lord and Simon Road!

Presenter22:11

The Ode to Joy from Beethoven's Symphony No. Nine in D minor with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and Chorus conducted by Sir George Schulte.

Presenter22:19

You've always said, Lenis, that you and Neil were equals. You've always argued strongly for women's rights, but at the same time

Presenter22:26

If you look at your life, you've subjugated your career until now to to Neil's political career. You went back to part-time teaching. You believed you'd got to be there, hold the family together, be there when the children came home from school.

Glenys Kinnock22:38

I did and I don't regret that for one moment because I think they only have one life and I felt that it was important that somebody was there after school and helping with assignments all the Neil did a lot of that, but it did mean that I was able to be with them for quite a lot of the time. But I I think that it's very important that women do have opportunities to develop careers and and to have professional satisfaction and so on. But that's the conundrum, isn't it? That feminism

Presenter23:05

But that's the

Presenter23:06

Feminism hasn't really answered that it's very difficult for a woman to follow her own professional ambitions if she also believes in fundamentally in that family.

Glenys Kinnock23:08

That is very

Glenys Kinnock23:16

It is, and a lot of women that I know who have pursued their careers feel guilty and miserable and they don't get enough support, and the systems that we have don't have enough flexibility, enough acknowledgement of the importance of family life, because it's important that you do have opportunities to do both of those things, and it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man and woman to find ways of ensuring that it that you can go to work, you can maintain your position on the ladder of whatever career you're involved with, and also feel that you are a responsible parent.

Presenter23:52

Yeah. How much of a sense of frustration did you have then when the children were small? I mean, did you ever stop and think, Look, I could be head of a comprehensive school by now, instead of knocking up spaghetti bolognese in Ely?

Glenys Kinnock24:03

Uh

Glenys Kinnock24:04

I suppose there were moments when I'd be dishonest if I didn't feel, as any one would, that sometimes you feel very claustrophobic or those hours that you spend at the swings with the children on cold winter afternoons. But on the other hand, the compensations were enormous and I wouldn't change any of it or any of the decisions that I made, because if now I had two children who hadn't achieved what mine have, who I felt somehow to blame for anything that had maybe gone wrong in their lives, then I couldn't live with that. As it is, I've been very lucky.

Glenys Kinnock24:41

that I have done what I've done. I've enjoyed teaching very much. I've r written a few books and at fifty I start a new career. It is fortunate for me and I hope that in some small way I can be a role model for others. It's fortunate you've got a lot of energy, you must rise. More than ever. Right, next record. The next record is Dorry Previn. I think she's such a underrated and forgotten singer. Sh she has a wonderful voice and her

Glenys Kinnock25:10

Songs are pure poetry and this one is Mythical Kings and Iguanas.

Speaker 425:18

Mythical Kings.

Speaker 425:23

Sure that everything of worth

Speaker 425:27

Is in the sky and not the earth And I never learned to make my way

Speaker 425:35

Down, down, down.

Presenter25:38

Where the iguanas play Dorry Previn and Mythical Kings and Iguanas. When does Neil take up his job in Brussels then?

Glenys Kinnock25:47

Since the Maastricht Treaty, it's the case that the Commission has to be approved by the European Parliament. So it is with he has to sit in front of all of us as MEPs.

Presenter25:58

You have to approve him.

Glenys Kinnock25:58

We all have to approve. We approve the Commission as a whole, but they will all have to be part of a question and answer session. But I th there is a delay because of the enlargement of the community. It's taken longer than was anticipated. So

Presenter26:12

It'll be about February. So he comes over in February to Brussels. So at last life begins to make some kind of logical sense again.

Glenys Kinnock26:19

Yes, we're very lucky and people keep coming to us in his constituency and other places say, Oh, isn't it lovely you're going to be together? Well, you have rather been apart, haven't you? Yes, more apart than you've ever been.

Glenys Kinnock26:31

Well, I yes, for the length of time, although there's never been a regularity to our lives that other people have had, there's always been a lot of coming and going. But certainly since um July it has meant that I've spent a lot of time three or four days a week out of the country and uh so it will be very nice if we spend breakfast time together again.

Presenter26:50

But you still have a large house in Ealing'cause you moved just after the election, and you have a father and two constituencies between you in Wales.

Presenter26:58

Uh logistically your life must be hell. Uh you must always have clothes in the wrong place or nobody to feed the cats or

Glenys Kinnock27:04

And my cats have gone to Bristol. It's terrible, it's awful. I've had to relinquish my cats. But I I manage that quite well, I think. And once Neil has somewhere in Brussels, then it will mean that my toothbrush will be in one place and not moving over the Channel once a week and back again. But your son's in Brussels as well. Yes, Stephen is a researcher in the European Parliament, yes. So three members of the kinetic family of that.

Speaker 127:24

Uh

Presenter27:28

So three members of the kinetic family of that makes a bit more sense.

Glenys Kinnock27:32

It does. And often even there, we were talking earlier about the additions to my name. There I'm often referred to as Stephen's mother.

Presenter27:40

So you're obviously a very organised person if you can manage all of that and have been managing all of that. So you'll be a good castaway, will you? You'll get this island sort of thing.

Glenys Kinnock27:48

Four fifty.

Glenys Kinnock27:49

I would absolutely hate it. I don't like being on my own at all. I'd be very, very lonely and I'd be frightened and I'd hate being there in the dark by myself and thinking that I'd never be rescued. I would really hate it.

Presenter28:01

You'd expire of panic, would you?

Glenys Kinnock28:03

I would Tonight.

Presenter28:04

Especially if I understand a mouse or a rat comes along as the end of Glenniskin.

Glenys Kinnock28:09

I have a phobia about mice and rats. I never ever have been able to overcome the absolute terror that I'm filled with when I see them. So I I don't know what I'd do. I'd have to sit up a tree or something. But it might be even rodenty things up there as well.

Presenter28:23

You never know what you might have to do.

Glenys Kinnock28:26

Yeah.

Glenys Kinnock28:27

Record number seven. Record number seven is the Brahms violin concerto in D, and it has to be played by Nigel Kennedy, please, because it's so full of vivacity and life, and he adds a very special something to it.

Presenter29:32

Part of the third movement of Brahm's violin concerto in D played by Nigel Kennedy, with the London Philharmonic conducted by Klaus Tinstedt.

Presenter29:40

There's a certain irony, isn't there, Glennis, that Europe, which you were so much against at one point, I mean both you and Neil voted against it in the referendum in the mid seventies, has now provided a whole new future for the Kinnock family.

Glenys Kinnock29:52

That's right, and of course we voted against a market, not against the kind of European idea that now exists, and there's no escaping the future that we have within Europe.

Glenys Kinnock30:03

So I don't really see an irony, I just see that things have developed and moved on, and we've been pragmatic enough to do that.

Presenter30:09

And if in two or three years' time Tony and Cherie Blair walk through the door of number ten, I'm sure you'll feel triumphant for the Labour Party and you'll feel that this is right for the country. But will you also have a an enormous sense, or a small sense, of regret that it wasn't you?

Glenys Kinnock30:24

No, I won't, because you have to face up to the reality and we've both done that. And I couldn't be happier that it's Tony Blair. And Cherie he'll be doing that, because I think he's a fine man and a man of great integrity and decency and has all the values that I think are important. And I should be delighted for both of them when that moment comes, as I feel sure it will.

Presenter30:47

And Neil, do you think he'll have a sense of regret?

Glenys Kinnock30:50

I don't think he will. Um I think he feels uh very protective and very affectionate towards Tony and will be

Glenys Kinnock30:57

there won't be anything, any resentment. I know people might think that that's untrue and perhaps dishonest, but it isn't. It's it's it's genuinely the case that we'll be delighted and I just don't really envy the problems that then they'll face because that's that's really when the the difficult work will begin.

Glenys Kinnock31:18

Last record.

Glenys Kinnock31:19

The last record has to reflect my enormous love of Africa and my delight and joy at what has happened in South Africa. The institutionalized racism that afflicted that country for so long, for decades, has ended. And this great song, Cozy Sikhalele, encapsulates the hope that they always had that that moment would arrive.

Speaker 431:58

Getousi si de la

Speaker 432:06

Oh sing, sing their day.

Presenter32:12

In Cozy Sicale Afrika, God Bless Africa from the film Cry Freedom, if you could only take one of those records, Glennis.

Glenys Kinnock32:19

I think it would have to be the first one. I thought very long and hard about this. I thought in cosy sicalele, but I'm going to be so miserable that it was a sunny day. I might have to have to tr cheer myself up and uh

Glenys Kinnock32:32

Hope that I can escape.

Presenter32:36

What about your

Glenys Kinnock32:36

Book

Glenys Kinnock32:37

I'd like um an atlas. I thought the Peter's Projection Atlas, but I've just come across a wonderful third world atlas which the Open University has produced, and it's full of detail, and I shall so enjoy studying all the graphs and the maps and the history that it contains. There speaks the school teacher. Yes. And your luxury.

Glenys Kinnock32:58

Well, I was going to ask for a cat because the ship is bound to have had a cat on it and I would you know rescue the cat with not allowed. No, you're not allowed. I'm shaking my head. The cat would be my answer to the mice and also a little bit of company and something furry to stroke, because I wouldn't be wanting to stroke the mice. But if if I can't have that, then I would like a nice bag with barrier creams and so on, so that when I do re-emerge from this awful castaway existence, then at least I will have protected my skin from the effects of the sun.

Presenter33:07

No, you're not at all.

Presenter33:34

Glennis Kinnock, MEP, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you, it was a pleasure.

Speaker 133:46

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.